View Full Version : [Deck Idea] Counterbalance MUC
Well, was wondering about playing a mono-u deck, that can afford b2b maindeck, and that fits counterballance together with diniving top...
Don't know if that may work, but maybe you guys can help develop the idea.
It could run the standard set of fast counters such as fows and dazes, could use countespells and all the draw engines that muc can afford... it would be a huge control deck... any thoughs?
zulander
09-06-2007, 10:22 AM
It would win via what? Morphling?
What about this deck that abuses Dreadnought, B2B and Counterbalance? If you want to, I'll post a list (Shackles is very useful, too).
Joe Eigo
09-06-2007, 10:29 AM
Why not. But you need a way to deal with creatures, especially Tarmogoyf and Lackey as usual. Shackles would not be strong enough, because beating a 6/5 Tarmogoyf with it rarely works... Repeal and Pongify come to mind. Powder Keg and Disk are must includes i think, but Disk destroys B2B. Don't know if that's good. E. Explosives seems not to be the best option having only blue mana.
What about finishers ? You have Meloku, Morphling and Ophidian. Do i miss something ?
Bahamuth
09-06-2007, 10:29 AM
I'd like to see a list like that.
Here it comes
14 Island
8 Fetches obviously for blue (for Brainstorm, can be cut to 5-6)
4 Trinket Mage
3 Ph. Dreadnought
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
3 SDT
1 Pithing Needle
3 Shackles
3 B2B
But you'll have to find an answer to Goyf. Maindeck Explosives could be nice (could cut 1 SDT due Trinket M.). Disks are too slow and destroy Balance and B2B. Don't know, what to cut for Pongify/Repeal.
Well, guess the very best answer to goyf is already set, since it's a counter based control deck, you will be running 4 Fows, probably 4 Dazes and most sure of 4 counterspells, and they are going to be running 4 goyfs only... even so, if it resolves too fast, running quicksand as the previous versions of the deck used too can help you, and if you run it, u can decrease goyf's thoughtness enough to steal it with snare... the only problem i that quicksand is a non basic, but even so, i guess it's too good agains aggro to not be used, since it kills lackeys as well...
Dreadnough's problem is that is can be removed, killed and stuff, and morphling doesn't... it looks like a fit in fairy stompy to me, but not im muc...
It isn't really MUC, if you know your opponent plays Aggro, then just take the second turn Dreadnought Stifle tech. If they play white, stall a bit, and protect your Dreadnought with CB, CS or FoW. And if you can't, 12 life isn't that bad against aggro at all. If you're that scared about goyf you could play main/side Threads of Disloyalty.
porcupinetreeman
09-06-2007, 12:13 PM
Sounds like a cool idea. If I were to do it, I would play chrome moxes and Cotv SB.
19 Island
3 Chrome Mox
2 Morphling
4 FOW
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
4 Fact Or Fiction
3 Repeal
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Powder Keg
2 Back to Basics
SB:
4 COTV
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chill / BEB
1 Back to Basics
3 Metagame
DragoFireheart
09-06-2007, 02:54 PM
Sounds like a cool idea. If I were to do it, I would play chrome moxes and Cotv SB.
19 Island
3 Chrome Mox
2 Morphling
4 FOW
4 Counterspell
4 Mana Leak
4 Spell Snare
4 Fact Or Fiction
3 Repeal
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Vedalken Shackles
3 Powder Keg
2 Back to Basics
SB:
4 COTV
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Chill / BEB
1 Back to Basics
3 Metagame
I would love to see Superman brought back to the current meta! It's a shame he has been phased out for so long.
Have you thought about using Dazes as a counter spell? Perhaps 1-2 or so?
troopatroop
09-06-2007, 03:06 PM
Splash green and play Simic Sky Swallower, Eternal Witness, and Goyf.
Silthyn
09-06-2007, 05:14 PM
I would love to see Superman brought back to the current meta! It's a shame he has been phased out for so long.
Have you thought about using Dazes as a counter spell? Perhaps 1-2 or so?
I play 4 in my build. I find them good almost everytime you draw them. In lategame, you can pitch them to FoW, and in early game, they generally counter something (like Tarmogoyf). If you play with Daze, your opponent may also try to play around it by waiting a turn to drop an additional land. I don't know, maybe just 3 will do.
What about Propaganda MD/SB?
Zilla
09-06-2007, 06:12 PM
I would love to see Superman brought back to the current meta! It's a shame he has been phased out for so long.
I'm pretty sure he's been phased out for so long because he's slow as balls and is effectively useless in the face of a well protected Pithing Needle. I don't think he's really a viable win condition in the modern format.
Illissius
09-06-2007, 06:29 PM
I think you could handle a two color allied mana base with the eight fetchlands and only a pair of duals.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea / Tundra
9 Island
5 Swamp / Plains
You would have two lands which don't untap under Back to Basics, but as your opponents will often have two which do, this should still provide a sufficient advantage.
The second color would give you some much needed tools -- Wrath of God, Swords to Plowshares, Moat, Humility, Enlightened Tutor, Disenchant, Pulse of the Fields, Eternal Dragon, Exalted Angel, Decree of Justice, Damnation, The Abyss, Ghastly Demise, Smother, Diabolic Edict, Innocent Blood, Duress, Haunting Echoes, Psychatog, Dark Confidant, Engineered Plague, Leyline of the Void, Planar Void, Extirpate, Darkblast, and so on.
Cunning Wish for Enlightened Tutor to fetch the second half of Counterbalance/Top, Back to Basics, or Moat or something seems especially cute, but you'd have to test it to know if it's also good.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-06-2007, 06:37 PM
I think whene you already run Top why not Futuresight as a fast combo finish!? You only have to pay U for a draw that is pretty good in MUC!
And with one helme of awekening you could draw your deck and create infinite storm...
Is that the right way or is that tooo janky and MuC should have creatures as wincon?
pros with Futuresight:
no creatures, so you could ignore all creature hate
fast (2-3 turns)
FS is not bad on its own
cons:
Janky
no creatures no blockers...
FS is expensive...
WiLdFiRe
09-06-2007, 08:28 PM
This is basically the list that drew for first at Australian Nats, except I think we ran SB Shackles for maindeck Trinket toolbox. It's REALLY solid but has a hard time against Threshold unfortunately.
Here it comes
14 Island
8 Fetches obviously for blue (for Brainstorm, can be cut to 5-6)
4 Trinket Mage
3 Ph. Dreadnought
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
3 SDT
1 Pithing Needle
3 Shackles
3 B2B
But you'll have to find an answer to Goyf. Maindeck Explosives could be nice (could cut 1 SDT due Trinket M.). Disks are too slow and destroy Balance and B2B. Don't know, what to cut for Pongify/Repeal.
EDIT: Threads of Disloyalty seems like it'll improve the Thresh matchup no end. Something to test.
I'm pretty sure he's been phased out for so long because he's slow as balls and is effectively useless in the face of a well protected Pithing Needle. I don't think he's really a viable win condition in the modern format.
I though it was phased out because there is no reason playing a mono u control anymore, since splashing is so good. But the idea of running back to basics maindeck together with the strong counterbalance top combo seens a good reason to go back to the basics and play mono u... in muc imo it's the best win condition one can play...
Clark Kant
09-09-2007, 09:12 AM
Go up to 4 Shackles. The very best answer to Goyf is to steal it with Shackles.
Spell Snare as others mentioned could be better here than in decks with just a few slots for counters. You can use it for all the 2cc cards (Standstill, Counterbalance, Counterspell, Goyf etc), and save your FoWs and Dazes and counterspells for the other cc card spells.
With all the stifle effects, Maelstrom Djinn could work well in the board as an additonal threat.
But honestly, I"m not sure I'm a big fan of Dreadnought here. You can run very few win conditions, the format is full of removal that can kill Dreadnought (splash damage from Goyf).
Dreadnought is making your run 4 Trinket Mage effectively making you use up 7 slots. It's also card disadvantage when countered.
I guess you can do this, but you should get more milage out of Mage by running a Tormod's Crypt and an EE. But this just eats up even more slots.
Morphling and Teferi have potential. They can actually protect themselves.
Theres a lot of great development on a similar deck here... http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?p=159847#post159847
dahcmai
09-09-2007, 10:14 AM
You could always go with my thought. Triskelion with Academy Ruins backup. I've been trying it with some success so far. He doubles as creature kill also, though he's slow at that role. Worst problem is Needle is still useful to put him into swords range. At least you don't have to care about all that split second junk.
cann0nfodder
09-09-2007, 10:45 AM
If you are scared of the thresh MU, why dont you include a single copy of meekstone in the main? It shuts down every creature in a threshold deck but meddling mage for 1 and you can tutor it up with trinket mage.
This is what most like i though the deck should look like, not even close to a final version, but close enough to win few matches and direct the discussion to a central point, since it's on it's escence a MUC with Counterballance
// MUCounterbalance
// Lands
13 [6E] Island (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [9E] Quicksand
// Creatures
3 [US] Morphling
// Spells
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [US] Back to Basics
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
4 [IA] Counterspell
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [FNM] Impulse
2 [REW] Powder Keg
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
Fell Free to say ANYTHING that will add info for us ^^'
Bahamuth
09-10-2007, 01:42 PM
This is what most like i though the deck should look like, not even close to a final version, but close enough to win few matches and direct the discussion to a central point, since it's on it's escence a MUC with Counterballance
// MUCounterbalance
// Lands
13 [6E] Island (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [9E] Quicksand
// Creatures
3 [US] Morphling
// Spells
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [US] Back to Basics
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
4 [IA] Counterspell
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [FNM] Impulse
2 [REW] Powder Keg
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
Fell Free to say ANYTHING that will add info for us ^^'
3 Morphling is too much. 2 Should be plenty. I'm also not sure if 3 Back to Basics is good...
Please stop suggesting Daze. Daze is much worse than Force Spike or Spell Snare in this deck. This deck can't afford to lose a land drop to it. It has much issues keeping up with the format already.
Why don't you play any FoFs?
Well, considering FOF and Spike maindeck, and less B2B, a changa that could be done is
- 1 Back to Basics
- 4 Daze
+3 Force Spike
+ 2 Fact or Fiction
Daze and fof are pretty the same to me, but it's up to your choice...
Silthyn
09-11-2007, 10:08 AM
If we need a draw engine, would Snow-Covered Islands together with Scrying Sheets work? It has some synergy with the Top, but the Shackles becomes a little bit worse. I don't think that really matters. Anyway, you could run 2-3 to avoid multiples early in the game, and to ensure you have 2 islands for that Counterspell.
EDIT: It's not that great with Back to Basic either. Well, forget it then :D
If we need a draw engine, would Snow-Covered Islands together with Scrying Sheets work? It has some synergy with the Top, but the Shackles becomes a little bit worse. I don't think that really matters. Anyway, you could run 2-3 to avoid multiples early in the game, and to ensure you have 2 islands for that Counterspell.
EDIT: It's not that great with Back to Basic either. Well, forget it then :D
Your EDIT was what I was about to say, with back to basics maindeck i would not work...
Now, about that Daze maindeck issue, as our intent is probably to rush a counterbalance + Top, i found daze more useful to get it, dunno about your tests, but i guess it's a little superior to force spike
Silthyn
09-11-2007, 11:41 AM
Your EDIT was what I was about to say, with back to basics maindeck i would not work...
Now, about that Daze maindeck issue, as our intent is probably to rush a counterbalance + Top, i found daze more useful to get it, dunno about your tests, but i guess it's a little superior to force spike
I tend to hold back my Counterbalance until I got at least 3 mana and a Top in play (or 4 mana and a Counterspell/Mana Leak in my hand). There is no meaning of rushing with that CounterTop, since in the early game, you just counter every threat and then drop the Counterbalance when you run out of counters.
I tend to hold back my Counterbalance until I got at least 3 mana and a Top in play (or 4 mana and a Counterspell/Mana Leak in my hand). There is no meaning of rushing with that CounterTop, since in the early game, you just counter every threat and then drop the Counterbalance when you run out of counters.
I would play at least a fast Top, since it's an every turn filter... but yeah, it's possible to hold it, if you got counters enough... anyway, it depends on the game... probably the diference between then are not going to change much the game... but since force spike is better when you play it right, i'll start playing it...
Fuzzy
09-11-2007, 07:33 PM
Why play this intead of UBx Counterbalance Tog?
jebus
09-11-2007, 08:57 PM
I think it's mono-U because of Back to Basics, which can be bloody murder in this format.
And I think you guys should put in at least 3 Disk/Keg, though you probably won't need as many as the 5 (3 Keg / 2 Disk split) that was the MUC standard.
I think it's mono-U because of Back to Basics, which can be bloody murder in this format.
And I think you guys should put in at least 3 Disk/Keg, though you probably won't need as many as the 5 (3 Keg / 2 Disk split) that was the MUC standard.
Well, kegs and disks are awsome here, but it's hard to play when you intend to depende on enchantments on the board... countertop + b2b is kind of taking the place of massive remove control here... yet, 2 kegs are on the list and are working well... it can also be a nice sideboard option, since faster decks require more of kegs and disks than countertops...
Why play this intead of UBx Counterbalance Tog?
The hole plan is explained up there, when i said "playing Countertop with Back to Basics". Back to Basics locks up decks such like UBx os any split collor deck... and i don't remenber a monocollor deck this format, besides maybe MBC...
dahcmai
09-11-2007, 09:25 PM
I'll throw it together tonight and let you know how it does in our weekend tournament. We have two days of legacy so I have a chance to change around stuff to fit how it feels. I'm kind of fond of the idea of running a Morphling and a Rainbow Efreet to make them have to guess for the Needle. That or board into two of them.
jebus
09-11-2007, 10:54 PM
Kegs don't blow enchantments up, and SDT can be protected with its top-of-the-library thing. I just think 2 is too low a number for it, 3 or even 4 should work better, considering how important it is for MUC to have a reliable panic button.
Maybe 3 kegs with 2 back to basics... but i don't fell like it's that needed... recent playable b2b mucs used to run 2 kegs and that's all...
jebus
09-11-2007, 11:14 PM
Then cut 1 Morphling instead of 1 B2B. 3 is plenty anyway, and you'd much rather see a Keg than a Morphling early. Also, are you sticking with Force Spike over Daze?
Citrus-God
09-11-2007, 11:41 PM
// Lands 24
4 Scrying Sheets
4 Mouth of Ronom
16 Snow-Covered Ialand
// Creatures 8
4 Morphling
4 Trinket Mage
// Spells 28
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force Spike
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
3 Powder Keg
4 Vedalken Shackles
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meekstone
4 Impulse
I love the synergy between Morphling and Meekstone. This could make things interesting. I especially love Trinket Mage in this deck. Able to grab Meekstone, Top, or Needle is just cool.
I also really like Scrying Sheets in this deck. Mouth of Ronom is also cool because it's uncounterable removal. Just being able to block Goyf with Trinket Mage and then Mouthing it is just awesome.
I might cut the Impulses for 3 TfK and 1 Powder Keg though.
Bahamuth
09-12-2007, 12:55 AM
// Lands 24
4 Scrying Sheets
4 Mouth of Ronom
16 Snow-Covered Ialand
// Creatures 8
4 Morphling
4 Trinket Mage
// Spells 28
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force Spike
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
3 Powder Keg
4 Vedalken Shackles
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meekstone
4 Impulse
I love the synergy between Morphling and Meekstone. This could make things interesting. I especially love Trinket Mage in this deck. Able to grab Meekstone, Top, or Needle is just cool.
I also really like Scrying Sheets in this deck. Mouth of Ronom is also cool because it's uncounterable removal. Just being able to block Goyf with Trinket Mage and then Mouthing it is just awesome.
I might cut the Impulses for 3 TfK and 1 Powder Keg though.
I definately like this list. It's just.......Brainstorm can't be missing in a Counterbalance deck right?..
How are the matchups of this deck?
Citrus-God
09-12-2007, 01:44 AM
I definately like this list. It's just.......Brainstorm can't be missing in a Counterbalance deck right?..
How are the matchups of this deck?
It's a rough draft to pull some ideas out. I honestly dont know....
I would make some changes like:
- 2 Morphling
- 1 impulse
- 1 force spike
+4 Brainstorm
And there it is the 4 brainstorm... you don't need that much morphlings, and 3 force spike seens to be the most common played, and is effective enough...
Citrus-God
09-12-2007, 02:24 AM
I would make some changes like:
- 2 Morphling
- 1 impulse
- 1 force spike
+4 Brainstorm
And there it is the 4 brainstorm... you don't need that much morphlings, and 3 force spike seens to be the most common played, and is effective enough...
My problem with Wastelands are lack of shuffle effects....
But the whole Scrying Sheets thing can get cut.
Joe Eigo
09-12-2007, 06:59 AM
My problem with Wastelands are lack of shuffle effects....
But the whole Scrying Sheets thing can get cut.
You mean Brainstorm not Wasteland, right ? :] I think Brainstorm is still good enough in this, because you can put things back on top of you library, if you have CB out. You could play some fetches to make Bstorm stronger. They have also no dissynergy(?) with B2B.
Silthyn
09-12-2007, 10:03 AM
So, there's two possible directions for MUC, Snow-lands or B2B. Here are the pros and cons of them as I see it:
Snow-Lands:
Pros:
-Better, uncounterable drawengine
-Synergy with Top
-Uncounterable removal
Cons:
-You become more vulnerable to Wasteland
-You will not always have that UU mana on the second turn.
-Shackles becomes less effective in early/middle game.
Back to Basics:
Pros:
-Slows down nonbasic-heavy decks like Threshold, Landstill etc. This card wins game alone, while the Snowengine does not.
Cons:
-Well, you can't run the Snow-Lands drawengine effectively.
Well, what do you think is more optimal? I think that the land base for the snow-lands should be 3x Scrying Sheets and 2x Mouth of Ronom, which is 5 nonbasics in the deck.
Bahamuth
09-12-2007, 12:03 PM
My list splashes white. I'm still unsure about many cards in there. Here's the list:
// Lands
6 [RAV] Island (1)
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [RAV] Plains (1)
4 [R] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
// Spells
4 [7E] Counterspell
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
1 [LG] Moat
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
1 [US] Back to Basics
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
5 Open slots. I'm not sure how to fill them in yet. The deck definately needs some kind of board sweeper, but also card advantage might be needed. Also i think Spell Snare has to get in there, since it's just so good.
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 1 [TSB] Disenchant
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle
SB: 1 [IN] Teferi's Response
Those are just some wish options and inboardable Tutor options. I need some suggestions on those.
Alfred
09-12-2007, 04:03 PM
My list splashes white. I'm still unsure about many cards in there. Here's the list:
// Lands
6 [RAV] Island (1)
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [RAV] Plains (1)
4 [R] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
// Spells
4 [7E] Counterspell
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [VI] Helm of Awakening
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
1 [LG] Moat
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
1 [US] Back to Basics
3 [JU] Cunning Wish
5 Open slots. I'm not sure how to fill them in yet. The deck definately needs some kind of board sweeper, but also card advantage might be needed. Also i think Spell Snare has to get in there, since it's just so good.
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 1 [TSB] Disenchant
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle
SB: 1 [IN] Teferi's Response
Those are just some wish options and inboardable Tutor options. I need some suggestions on those.
Maybe you should consider running a win condition that wins in spite of Moat.
Why not try:
2x Eternal Dragon
3x Serendib Efreet
One for inevitability, and the other for winning the game more quickly.
i don't think splashing white should be in the MUC topic, but, anyway, splashing is an idea... I just think that it can be a huge PRO to run Back to Basics maindeck, so i wouldn't splash... alternatively, there is the snow covered issue also...
DragoFireheart
09-12-2007, 06:36 PM
I like the idea of using snow lands in MUC. It gives the deck a nice theme.
How about using Heidar, Rimewind Master?
2, T Return target permanent to its owner's hand. Play this ability only if you control four or more snow permanents.
Maybe Rimefeather Owl? lol...
Just throwing ideas out their.
Bahamuth
09-13-2007, 12:38 AM
Maybe you should consider running a win condition that wins in spite of Moat.
Why not try:
2x Eternal Dragon
3x Serendib Efreet
One for inevitability, and the other for winning the game more quickly.
Whu use up 5 slots in the deck for just the kill, when I can also use just 1 slot with Helm of Awakening?
Alfred
09-13-2007, 12:51 PM
Whu use up 5 slots in the deck for just the kill, when I can also use just 1 slot with Helm of Awakening?
Your win condition is a 4 card combo? That doesn't seem that great to me.
Bahamuth
09-13-2007, 01:33 PM
That doesn't matter, since you will have stabilized anyway when you attempt to kill your opponent.
Alfred
09-13-2007, 01:50 PM
That doesn't matter, since you will have stabilized anyway when you attempt to kill your opponent.
Hopefully you have COMPLETELY stabilized, because relying on drawing 4 seperate cards, 2 of which are the same card, 1 of which is 1 card in the deck, and the last is a 3-of sounds like it might take a really, really long time.
Running with creatures not only strengthens your defense, but allows you to win the game before turn 40.
Bahamuth
09-13-2007, 02:11 PM
I seriousely doubt you will enchance the defense of the deck much more by adding creatures that cost 3 or more mana. If you are playing vs. Goblins your plan is to counter some stuff before dropping a Moat, which means a stabilize. Playing vs. more creature-light decks, wou will probably be able to counter many of them and eventually lock them with Top + Balance.
By the way, it isn't that hard to find a 3-off, 2 of the 4-offs and 1 4-off (Enlightened Tutor + Helm = 4) in too many turns.
Benie Bederios
09-13-2007, 04:29 PM
The problem is that you can't lock most decks completely with Counterbalance Top. Almost any deck has a to varied mana curve to depend solely on Counterbalance Top. The decks that utilize it al have a fast clock to kill the opponent fast. The best example is the Counterbalance Hulkflash. That deck only used Counterbalance to stop the early rush and after that it could go nuts and be imuun for Swords to Plowshare. So this deck needs a kill that can put a clock on an opponent. The first thing that springs to mind is Stiflenaught. But that brings with it card disadvantage. All other things I can remember are slow as hell too. An option would be Time Vault with the new artifact thingy Rings of Brighthearth. That card is nice in copying the Ability of Top, so that you can draw extra cards from it or Shackles so that you can steal 2 creatures. But it is even good with a simple fetchland.
Think about the abilities! You could run Academy Ruins and Intuition to tutor for your win condition. or other artifacts.
Just some thoughts though.
Cheers BB
Citrus-God
09-13-2007, 05:18 PM
The problem is that you can't lock most decks completely with Counterbalance Top. Almost any deck has a to varied mana curve to depend solely on Counterbalance Top. The decks that utilize it al have a fast clock to kill the opponent fast.
Actually, you might be right here if we were discussing a build that is less Counter heavy. Sadly, this is still MUC. Even if you arent locking, you still have lots of counters sitting in your hand to protect the lock. If they kill Counterbalance with Krosan Grip, out counter their initial turn and proceed to lay down another Counterbalance as a replacement.
Silthyn
09-13-2007, 05:47 PM
The problem is that you can't lock most decks completely with Counterbalance Top. Almost any deck has a to varied mana curve to depend solely on Counterbalance Top. The decks that utilize it al have a fast clock to kill the opponent fast. The best example is the Counterbalance Hulkflash. That deck only used Counterbalance to stop the early rush and after that it could go nuts and be imuun for Swords to Plowshare. So this deck needs a kill that can put a clock on an opponent. The first thing that springs to mind is Stiflenaught. But that brings with it card disadvantage. All other things I can remember are slow as hell too. An option would be Time Vault with the new artifact thingy Rings of Brighthearth. That card is nice in copying the Ability of Top, so that you can draw extra cards from it or Shackles so that you can steal 2 creatures. But it is even good with a simple fetchland.
Think about the abilities! You could run Academy Ruins and Intuition to tutor for your win condition. or other artifacts.
Just some thoughts though.
Cheers BB
The CounterTop combo is not a hardlock. It's a softlock, or maybe a form of counterspell (that you can reuse).
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