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cann0nfodder
09-06-2007, 11:41 PM
My friend and I designed this deck to have a strong game against many of the most popular decks in Legacy. Most of the card choices that went into the mainboard of this deck are very straight forward. This is a metagame deck and work must constantly go into it in order for the deck to be successful. However, I would like to post this deck because I feel that the deck is strong enough and fun enough to warrant the attention of more experienced deckbuilders than myself. Here is the list that I have currently settled on.

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Chrome Mox

4 Psychatog
4 Looter il-Kor
3 Dark Confidant
3 Shadowmage Infiltrator

4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze
3 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Smother
2 Damnation
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Side Board:

1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Engineered Plague
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Snuff Out
1 Duress
2 Extract
3 Extirpate

Playing the Deck:

This deck is relatively simple to play. Like any aggro control deck you should lay down some creatures as early as you can and use your disruption wisely.
The secret is know when you should focus on playing control and when you should focus on playing aggro. For example, when facing a board full of goblins and holding a damnation psychatog is the only creature that you should consider playing. However, when facing a player with nothing but lands in play and a lone Tarmogoyf you should ussually drop several threats. This is because your men will help you draw into the removal necessary to maintain control of the board.

Single card Discussion:

I realize that I have chosen many cards in this deck that readers will feel should be addressed. Many of these cards are not often played but they are very useful in this deck.

Wasteland - Wasteland is a very good card. In a world full of dual lands and fetch lands Wasteland is the best reason to run less than three colors. Wasteland slows other decks down. Although trading a land on a one for one basis with an opponent's land is not always helpful thanks to cards like looter il-kor and Dark Confidant you should be able to find the necessary color lands before your opponent does

Mishra's Factory - Mishra's factory can survive damnation and other mass removal. Also, the two color manabase can easily support him.

Chrome Mox - Originally the spot occupied by Chrome Mox was occupied by two more fetchlands and a basic Island and a basic Swamp. However, after testing with the addition of shadowmage infiltrator the tempo boost provided by chrome mox was was worth its addition. Also, Chrome Mox cannot be destroyed by Wasteland.

Looter il-Kor - Looter il-Kor is probably the most harshly ridiculed card in this deck. This is because looter il-Kor does not seem broken enough as a 1/1 for 1U. Looter does not get you card advantage but he does get you card quality. I know that I am going to take a tongue-lashing for comparing him to Brainstorm but I would like to remind everyone that Brainstorm does not get you card advantage either, it helps create card quality. Looter also fills up the graveyard for Psychatog and he is handy for carrying Umezawa's Jitte. Thanks to Chrome mox Looter can get in for Jitte counters as early as turn 3 (or turn 2 off a nearly impossible draw).

Dark Confidant - This guy is good. Yes, I know that he hurts you. Sometimes he can hurt so bad you want to drop him like an abusive girlfriend. However, ussually this deck wins by turn six or seven at the latest and the cards are worth it.

Shadowmage Infiltrator - Orginially I suggested we run counterspells or sinkholes in this slot. The counterspells were good but so is Shadowmage Infiltrator. This guy is good for most of the same reasons as Looter only with a bigger investment and a bigger payoff.

Stifle - Stifle can help fight storm combo decks and it is great with wasteland.

Duress - Duress is good in this deck because this list like to tap out on turns two and three to play cards like Dark Confidant and Shadowmage infiltrator. Duress lets you disrupt your opponent so that you can tap out as normal or barring that outcome lets you know that tapping out on turn two would have been the most stupid idea you ever had.

Smother - Sorry guys, no white means to Swords to Ployshares. Dont worry, when it comes to smiting Tarmogoyf Smother is almost as efficient.

Umezawa's Jitte - This card is incredible against goblins and threshold. It can also help you beat random stuff like burn. I know im not the only one who thinks that a Psychatog who is weilding Umezawa's Jitte is scary.

Sideboard

Engineered Plague, Engineered Explosives - I think that it is obvious what these are in here for. By the way, Engineered explosives can take out almost every guy in a threshold deck.

Snuff Out - Meh, I ran out of ideas for sideboard teck. Besides, these are going to get boarded in almost every other match.

Extract - This card can win the game against Cephalid Breakfast

Extirpate - One of the most swingy cards in a match against landstill. This can also be useful against a number of combo decks.

Experimental cards

Pithing needle + counterbalance - A good combo, but it doesnt quite seem to justifly the slots.



Match ups

Goblins: This matchup is difficult pre board but it is very winable as it depends heavily on the skill of the goblins player. Lay down a Psychatog and run amok with Jitte. Or Lay down a Psychatog and play damnation after the goblin player over extends. After you take command of the board (if you take command of the board) cards like shadowmage infiltrator and Jitte should help make sure you keep command.

-3 Duress
-3 Stifle
+3 Engineered Plague
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
+2 Snuff out

After boarding this matchup is much more easy. Snuff out helps take out troublesome men like goblin lackey and drawing a couple Engineered Plagues or a jitte will probably seal the game.

Threshold: This matchup is favorable. You have draw engines in Bob and Shadowmage infiltrator along with damnation, Psychatog and Jitte.

-2 Damnation
-3 Daze
-2 Duress
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
+3 Engineered Explosives
+2 Snuff out

After boarding this matchup is even more favorable. This match can stretch on a long time so Daze is less useful. Engineered explosives seems better than damnation because it destroys their guys but spares Psychatog and Shadowmage.

Epic Storm, Iggy pop: This matchup is surprisingly favorable. If you get a Looter il-Kor or a Dark Confidant online then the combo player will have an extremely tough time winning a counter war with you.

-2 Damnation
-4 Smother
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
+3 Engineered Explosives
+1 Duress
+3 Extirpate

Again, after sideboarding these matches become more favorable. Please note that I realize Extirpate is almost useless agaisnt TES but then again Smother is completely useless. If you are facing TES leave the damnations in and bring in only one extirpate. Thanks to Chrome Mox the damnations can actually kill ETW tokens. Cephalid Breakfast is basically the same except you should leave the smothers and the Jitte and find a way to bring in extirpate and extract. If you extract dread return then you have pretty much won the game.

I apologize in advance for the lack of more matchup information and for any typos but I have to go tuck myself in because I am writing this well past my bedtime:tongue:. If this board generates any discussion then I will return and post more matchups.

FoolofaTook
09-07-2007, 12:02 AM
The question I'd have would be the mana base. 16 lands will probably lead to a lot of mulligans when 4 of them are wastelands and 4 of them mishras.

Think of it this way: wasteland is a disruption piece not a land, are you going to be able to use it that way with only 12 other lands total in the deck?

cann0nfodder
09-07-2007, 12:08 AM
Running 16 lands is not much of an issue since I also run 4 chrome mox.

Jak
09-07-2007, 12:14 AM
You will get mana screwed. You run 4 lands that actually tap for blue and black. Recurring wastelands will kill you and so will stifle. Why not add more?

calosso
09-07-2007, 12:29 AM
Why would you sideout Stifle against goblins? THat card is amazing sinec it protects your unstable manabase and stops ringleader and matron from running a mock.

cann0nfodder
09-07-2007, 12:33 AM
I used to run 2 more fetches and 2 basics in this deck instead of the 4 chrome mox. Although stifle can be an issue it is not much of a problem since Chrome mox cannot be destroyed by wasteland. Also, not many decks run recurring wasteland. Loam and 43 Land do but those are the only decks taht come to mind and the are not common enough to warrant removing Chrome Mox.

Calasso, I agree that stifle is very useful against goblins. However, Engineered plague and Jitte are better and I cannot afford to board out any lands or creatures in this match so i guess the only choices worth considering boarding out are daze and stifle.

frogboy
09-07-2007, 02:04 AM
I don't think anyone plays enough land in their non Threshold Legacy decks but wow.

Meekrab
09-07-2007, 05:33 AM
Wasteland just keeps getting better and better as more crazy people decide Islands are overrated.

Hummingbird TG
09-07-2007, 07:43 AM
[...]This is a metagame deck[...]

Well, maybe he means the deck is for a meta where Wasteland, Stifle, Rishadan Port and other forms of LD are non-existant?:wink:

cheddercaveman
09-07-2007, 10:49 AM
Ok, I see multiple problems with this deck. First and foremost, you have only 4 colored mana sources. Yea, I see the chrome moxes, they cost you card advantage though too. A deck like this still needs to have probably 17-19 actual lands, and you'll need a couple of those you know, basic lands. Also, I'd say pick either the factories for more beatings or the wastelands for the disruption, either is valid, but go with just one. Chrome mox is ok, the extended versions of the deck play it with some success.

Now, yes Psychatog gets you the win, but the rest of your creatures are really draw spells. You have 11 creatures that do that, its overkill. I'd say go with either looter or shadowmage, not both. A backup finisher like Meloku, Tombstalker, etc might not be a terrible idea either.

Any reason to not consister Ghastly Demise instead of Smother? Just a suggestion, both cards have their advantages. Diabolic Edict is a good one too!

Duress = 4, if your gonna play it, I say you play 4. This is blacks hot control card, you run 4 of them. Its like playing blue and running 3 FoWs, just silly.

I actually really like the Damnations, but I'd have to test the deck before I'd suggest them in the main.

cann0nfodder
09-07-2007, 11:00 AM
The decklist posted runs just 5 colored sources of mana less than 3 color threshold and uwb fish and this deck is only two colors. The decklist also runs only two colored sources of mana less than two color threshold and the tog list also has 3 more lands total than any of the above lists. Dont forget that wasteland can tap for 1 in a pinch. Also, the only deck that comes to mind that runs both stifle and wasteland mainboard which is UG thresh does not run creature removal. This means that if you get a looter or a dark confidant online then he will keep drawing cards for you including lands to replace any lost duals.

cann0nfodder
09-07-2007, 11:05 AM
You are right Cheddar caveman, shadowmage infiltrator is probably one of the weaker slots in the deck since he seems superflous. Here is a new decklist. Note that I threw in those basics that everyone was pushing for and I upped the duress count after I threw out shadowmage.

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Chrome Mox

4 Psychatog
4 Looter il-Kor
3 Dark Confidant

4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze
4 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Smother
2 Damnation
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Side Board:

1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Engineered Plague
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Snuff Out
3 Extract
3 Extirpate

Benie Bederios
09-07-2007, 12:49 PM
What I used to do in my UB and later UBg list, was to use Intuition coupled with Deep Analysis and Stinkweed Imp. When you got an active Tog, you could play EOT Intuition for 2x Imp and DA or Imp and 2xDA( I played 2 Imps and 3 DA's). On you upkeep you can discard the card your opponent choses and start dredging. This means you can give your tog atleast +13/+13 and if you dredge into another DA you can make your Tog lethal. Anyway it's just a suggestion.

THEchubbymuffin
09-13-2007, 02:11 AM
Since tarmogoyf is such a beater, and you are playing black. Wouldn't Leyline of the Void be a card to consider?

(Capitalization, por favor. Punctuation is nice too. - Bardo)