[Card Discussion] Lorwyn in Legacy

[DragoFireheart]

Holy crap your right...that could be sick.

Enlightened Tutor + the land. Get an expensive spell or the dreadnought and go insane.

Time to go ponder.

Brainstorm also works really well with this.

You could drop the Ph.D, use the land in response and... I dunno, use some crazy spell.

Whats a crazy spell that's legal in this format but normally isn't played due to it's mana cost?

[Cait_Sith]

Possibly. Utopia Vow was GREAT removal in Limited. Then again... it didn't leave a chumper behind.

[DragoFireheart]

Possibly. Utopia Vow was GREAT removal in Limited. Then again... it didn't leave a chumper behind.

True, but Utopia Vow still lets that creature use abilites [if it has any].

Also should someone destroy your Lignify, it will feed Goyf.

I am wondering if it might be possible to use this in a U/G thresh deck. It gives gofy 2+/2+ of two card types that are normally hard to get into the yard, disables a creature and you can make your opponent waste their time trying to remove the enchantment while only making your Goyf bigger if they do so.

[Happy Gilmore]

You could drop the Ph.D, use the land in response and... I dunno, use some crazy spell.

Whats a crazy spell that's legal in this format but normally isn't played due to it's mana cost?

how bout an epic spell O_o . My only question would then be if you can use Hidaway once you get it set up.

Enduring Ideal anyone? lol, getting Dovescape and going from there. Seriously though, that deck seems bad.

[jamest]

In Limited, there are mixed reviews on Vow. It gives your opponent a free rainbow land. If you don't want to accelerate/color-fix your opponent, you have to delay using it pretty late. It's vulnerable to bounce (which there's a lot of in TPF) and it doesn't prevent activated/static abilities i.e. Pyromancer, Crovax, etc. Lignify avoids those drawbacks at the cost of giving your opponent a decent wall. The jury is still out. Oh, and to relate this to the Legacy format, this card is trash. Just splash and use good removal.

[frogboy]

Possibly. Utopia Vow was GREAT removal in Limited. Then again... it didn't leave a chumper behind.

Utopia Vow was pretty miserable except for the fact that it let green decks get through or hit fliers. Card would've been abysmal in any other color.

[Happy Gilmore]

Also should someone destroy your Lignify, it will feed Goyf.



The dead horse is filling a law suit. Leave it the hell alone.

[technogeek5000]

Cenn's Heir 1W
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
Whenever Cenn's Heir attacks, it gets +1/+1 until end of turn for each other attacking Kithkin.
1/1

Goldmeadow Stalwart W
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
As an additional cost to play Goldmeadow Stalwart, reveal a Kithkin card from your hand or pay .
2/2

Knight of Meadowgrain WW
Creature - Kithkin Knight
First strike
Lifelink
2/2

Militia's Pride 1W
Tribal Enchantment - Kithkin
Whenever a nontoken creature you control attacks, you may pay . If you do, put a 1/1 white Kithkin Soldier creature token into play tapped and attacking.

Surge of Thoughtweft 1W
Tribal Instant - Kithkin
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.
If you control a Kithkin, draw a card.

Wizened Cenn WW
Creature - Kithkin Cleric
Other Kithkin creatures you control get +1/+1.
2/2


Possibly tribal kithkin. Could use vial to power out the creatures. Atleast they dont need to splash for enchantment removal. Also this sucker aint to bad for meat

Thoughtweft Trio
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
First strike, vigilance
Champion a Kithkin (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another Kithkin you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
Thoughtweft Trio can block any number of creatures.
5/5



Land
Hideaway (This land comes into play tapped. When it does, look at the top 4 cards in your library, remove one from the game face down, then put the rest on the bottom of your library.)
T: Add to your mana pool.
B,T: You may play the removed card without paying its mana cost if each player has no cards in hand.

This looks decent.

[Cait_Sith]

Utopia Vow was pretty miserable except for the fact that it let green decks get through or hit fliers. Card would've been abysmal in any other color.

Green Removal = Green Removal = Something that didn't really exist until recently.

I'll take what I get.

[Cait_Sith]

Your only real option would be Eternal Dominion and hope your opponent is playing MD words and MD Moat.

Great, you just hosed Enchantress. No one cares.

[DragoFireheart]

The dead horse is filling a law suit. Leave it the hell alone.

Well there isn't any other Tribal Card I can see myself using in a Thresh deck. At least with Lignify I can stick with 2-colors while keeping my mana-based strong vs land destruction strats.

[Meekrab]

Does anyone else see some potentially awesome power-level errata being removed from Amrou Kithkin? As printed, she should stop anything with power 3+ from blocking any Kithkin, but the Gatherer version has changed card text of the "~this~ can't be blocked..." template.

[Bardo]

Full Lorwyn Spoiler up:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=85382

Thank you, MTGSalvation.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Well there isn't any other Tribal Card I can see myself using in a Thresh deck. At least with Lignify I can stick with 2-colors while keeping my mana-based strong vs land destruction strats.

Eyes of the "Wisent" (Wisened!) is a much more likely candidate for Threshold, I think.

[DragoFireheart]

Eyes of the "Wisent" (Wisened!) is a much more likely candidate for Threshold, I think.

Wait, what? How are you going to get it into the yard [assuming you want to]?

How would it help Thresh main-decked?

[Maveric78f]

Naw, I think it's worse than Gilded Drake would be in FS. Could be wrong, but...

It's not as it's not useless against non creature decks. That was my point. I'm not a FS expert but as I faced a pile of them, I know that it's not that difficult to make them run out of creatures, and playing utility creatures should not be bad.

My biggest regret about Lorwyn is the lack of good lands.

[Nihil Credo]

Your only real option would be Eternal Dominion and hope your opponent is playing MD words and MD Moat.
If you pay :2: more, you can entwine Tooth and Nail and get something that wins the game on the spot, either literally (Kiki-Hussar) or practically (2x Titan).

[Jaynel]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=90453

Here's an MWS patch if you want to get testing.

[Barook]

The visual spoiler for Lorwyn is up:

God, I hate that art style! (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57925&d=1190968287)

Edit: I'm glad that at least most of the playable/probably useful cards got half-way decent art. The non-basic arts are also awesome, but this can't compensate for this horrible, horrible art style.

[Bardo]

Holy shit, did you see the art on Thoughtseize? That's amazing.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card145969.jpg

Too bad this isn't playable...

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139513.jpg

Personally, I love the art for this set, and the lands are especially gorgeous.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card141879.jpg

I mean, holy hell.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card141883.jpg

The Plains and Island art is also ridiculous.

[DragoFireheart]

That Thoughtseize art is a hell of a lot better than Ponders art.

Ponder = yuck. :cry:

[TheCramp]

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139429.jpg

also very cool looking, as well as playable.

[Lemuria]

Besides Thoughtseize, Planeswalkers and maybe one or two lands, all artwork in Lorwyn are pretty much infantile. I didn't like


Nothing will beat Ravnica's artwork.


And yeah. YUCK for ponder.

[Barook]

I like these land arts, too:

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card153454.jpg

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card153458.jpg

Gaddock's and Doran's art are pretty decent as well.

But seriously, they waste the fucking awesomeness of Ron Spencer for shit like this?

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card145807.jpg

Oh, c'mon, you gotta be kidding me! :rolleyes:

[Nihil Credo]

So you are a fan of Ron Spencer's art? Good to know. Did you ever find the other one?

[Barook]

So you are a fan of Ron Spencer's art? Good to know. Did you ever find the other one?

Edit: Goatnapper? That one looks more like a typical Spencer art.

[Nihil Credo]

No, I meant the other Spencer fan.

(le sigh

Why do I waste my sublime humour on these unwashed masses?)

[iOWN]

Most of the lands look great (basically, everything besides the non-foliage basics). The art turned out to be a lot more impressive than what was shown in the previews.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card140219.jpg

Trippy...

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139511.jpg

In the running for "worst magic art of all time".

[Nihil Credo]

The latter is also one of the worst cards I've seen since Kamigawa.

[Cait_Sith]

If it cost W it would be hot... in power terms. But seriously, a women's breasts are about to ripped off her body in flight. How does that cause her to gain life?

[Slay]

If it cost W it would be hot... in power terms. But seriously, a women's breasts are about to ripped off her body in flight. How does that cause her to gain life?

Well, when you enchant the creature, its heart takes off to your magical tower or whatever where you devour it in a bloody satanic ritual.
-Slay

[TheCramp]

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card141822.jpg
anyone think this has any potential? As a pump knight it is pretty effective in a long game against control. I have no idea what deck this would fit into however.

[Barook]

Why do I waste my sublime humour on these unwashed masses?
Probably because it wasn't funny enough for the general masses (no offense here)


The latter is also one of the worst cards I've seen since Kamigawa.

Correct, this card IS awfully designed (basically the set's new Chimney Imp), so some Wizards employees could circle jerk off to its limited rating half a year later.

@The_Cramp: I thought about that card, but it is pure win-more. At the point you can pump unnecessary mana into such a creature is the point you're either dead or winning anyway.

[Wallace]

Most of the lands look great (basically, everything besides the non-foliage basics). The art turned out to be a lot more impressive than what was shown in the previews.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139511.jpg

In the running for "worst magic art of all time".

Dude, its a vagina with wings stuffed in some cleavage!! Or as I like to call it, its a heart shaped box!! stole that from someone else but I am going to use it anyway.

[mikekelley]

Soaring Hope is so bad.

It's a bad card.
It's white.
The art is miserable.

[Mr.C]

I actually liked the art a lot. Good to departure from the default violent-ish fantasy art. The art seems to remind me of those old King`s Quest games, and other fantasy-esque games made by Sierra in the early 90s. Very nice art.

[Barook]

Actually, on second thought, I think that the new group Wizards is aiming for with this expansion is: Girls (just like Crapigawa catered the Weeaboos, Ravnica the general gold lover, TS the nostalgic players, and so on)

The majority of the Magic-playing girls do like the art style of Guay and the set does have this distinctive art direction.

Plus, there is an unusual lack of cleavage to cater the 13-year old boys (ok, there are a few exceptions, like Ponder *shudders*) which is another sign that Lorwyn is addressed to girls.

If you look on it that way, the art style does make sense.

[kabal]

Visual Spoiler on one page (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57925&d=1190968287)

[Mijorre]

Dude, its a vagina with wings stuffed in some cleavage!! Or as I like to call it, its a heart shaped box!! stole that from someone else but I am going to use it anyway.

Vagina-breasts.
The single best concept to ever happen through magic.

[TheCramp]

@The_Cramp: I thought about that card, but it is pure win-more. At the point you can pump unnecessary mana into such a creature is the point you're either dead or winning anyway.

Not when you're the beatdown vs. control. Being able to force a deed or a wrath with one creature is pretty significant. This is a two drop that converts 1 mana into 1 or more damage in theory. (one for the damage it causes when it connects, one for when it novas.) the p/t sticks around, making it a superior analog to a pump in some situations. The fact that it can be swordsed is a problem, and if that is a concern you are probably better off with Stormgald Crusader and friends. But it is in red, and red has a weak spot in that kind of long game, so I will keep this on my radar for that reason.

Edit: Also, and I don't know that this matters, Aether Vial would radically improve this proposition.

[Pinder]

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card141822.jpg
anyone think this has any potential? As a pump knight it is pretty effective in a long game against control. I have no idea what deck this would fit into however.

When I saw that in the spoiler, I thought it had potential, but I'm also not sure what it would fit into. I mean, just add one at a time for a while, and when you need some reach or something, pour 6 mana into 10 damage or something. It could probably be safely filed under 'cool things', though.

Really cool art, though. I love the design for the flamekin.

edit: And some of the merfolk are even playable, too:

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139663.jpg http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139424.jpg http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139682.jpg
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card139702.jpg http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card142352.jpg http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card142354.jpg
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LRW/EN/Card142362.jpg

Some more than others, but mono-U fish with Back to Basics could be decent with all this new stuff + Lord of Atlantis, etc.

[from Cairo]

Reejerey is a absolute beast. In multiples he's Opposition on a 2/2 pump body. Only thing that kinda sucks is that he's 3 mana otherwise T1 Vial T2 Standstill, keep counters at 2 is downright busted in Merfolk (Lord of Atlantis, Arctic Merfolk, Shapesharer, Volidian Zombie, Rootwater Thief).

Decks game plan just seems sorta boring, idk, I'm sure it will be incredible in block and Type 2, probably even Extended - I'm not positive it brings enough to the table in Legacy.

[Barook]

Aether Vial combined with Reejerey does look like a good plan. Tap Vial, play another cheap Merfolk, untap and tap Vial again. :laugh: To bad he only triggers once you actually play a merfolk spell. If the ability was cip, it would be insane.

Edit: About Mono-U: I dunno, a black splash seems strong right now for Vodalian Zombie (take that, Goose and Gofy!) plus Thoughtseize and E Plague (absolutely retarded now with the creature type change).
White would give you Galiana's Knight, StP, the new, legendary Merfolk (meh) and Pikula against combo.
Anyway, due to a mana base which will consist of Islands, Vedalken Shackles should be kinda good here. Throw in a few Jittes and you should have a quite good creature control suite, even for Mono-U.

Edit #2: I toyed a bit around with a list with several merfolk weenies, a low-land mana base including a Brainstorm/Ponder cantrip base and the new Adept + Reejerey. As far as I can tell from goldfishing, both are far better than I expected. Adept is basically a 2/1 cantripper (which gives you shitloads of consistency with the cantrips) and Reejerey is the Merfolk's warchief, with the only differences that it grants +1/+1 instead of haste and reduces colored mana costs, including colorless one.

[Pinder]

and Reejerey is the Merfolk's warchief, with the only differences that it grants +1/+1 instead of haste and reduces colored mana costs, including colorless one.

Wow, I never even though of the fact that you can use your merfolk spells to untap the lands you use to play them. It's not quite the same as Warchief (more akin to Cloud of Faeries), but still redonkulous. Did you test at all with Aquitect's Will? A cantrip (I mean, when aren't you going to control a merfolk) that provides unblockability is pretty nice. Of course, with the meta the way it is, most people are already playing Islands anyway, so it might be sort of unneccesary.

[Barook]

Wow, I never even though of the fact that you can use your merfolk spells to untap the lands you use to play them. It's not quite the same as Warchief (more akin to Cloud of Faeries), but still redonkulous. Did you test at all with Aquitect's Will? A cantrip (I mean, when aren't you going to control a merfolk) that provides unblockability is pretty nice. Of course, with the meta the way it is, most people are already playing Islands anyway, so it might be sort of unneccesary.

Me neither, until I was goldfishing and I was like "Hey, why not simply untapping my Islands?".

And nope, I didn't test Aquitect's Will - why should I run a conditional cantrip when I can run superior cantrips in form of Brainstorm and Ponder? Plus, if i want to go for Islandwalk, I can still use Tidal Warriors.

I guess I'll open a brainstorming thread about that topic in the development forum later.

[Pinder]

And nope, I didn't test Aquitect's Will - why should I run a conditional cantrip when I can run superior cantrips in form of Brainstorm and Ponder? Plus, if i want to go for Islandwalk, I can still use Tidal Warriors.

I'm pretty sure that in a Merfolk deck, you're likely to control a Merfolk, so the draw will likely happen all the time. Also, AW makes the land an Island permanently, which is nice, and is also a Sorcery-Merfolk, so you get to nab it off of Tidal Courier. It also has synergy with Merrow Reejery for the same reason. Not saying this warrants auto-inclusion, but it might warrant testing.

edit: Did a bit of testing with a rough list, and let me tell you, Merrow Reejery + Back to Basics = WIN.