[Deck] Berserker Stompy

[gvbarroso]

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Berserk
4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
4 Bounty of the Hunt
3 Giant Growth
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Rogue Elephant
3 Shyshroud Elite
3 Ghazban Ogre
4 River Boa

1 Pendelhaver
10 Forest


What do you guys think about it? Perhaps there are too many pumps, and one or two of them (Briar Shield, Giant Growth or Bounty of the Hunt) could be replaced by +1 Skyshroud Elite and +1 Ghazban Ogre.
I am pretty confused about the sideboard. Winter orb, Hidden Gibbons, Superior numbers, naturalize... which and how many?

How far do you think this deck could go in a big tournment?

[Madmaniac21]

Not competitive, IMO.

However, some basic improvements to consider

GOYF
Fetchlands
GOYF
Lotus Petals

Did I mention goyf?

[DragoFireheart]

Shouldn't this be in the New and Developmental Decks Forum?

While I like the idea of something trying to revive MGA, this isn't the right forum to post a deck in the works. You also lack a in-depth description and your win % VS other competitive decks.

Oh and since it has green mana it must have Goyf.

[Kronicler]

While we at the Source love new members posting their deck ideas, please read the forum requirements before you post. In order to be in the Established forum, you need a very well formated first post, including how the deck came to exist, card choices, and in-depth matchup analysis as well as atleast some good results from a relatively large tournament.

As for the actual deck, I believe that it is close enough to 9 land stompy that the two could be merged. If this isn't so, why are you playing land grants over fetch lands? Revealing your hand doesn't seem very strong. Also, you definately need Tarmogoyf here. He is complete ownage. In general though, the deck unfortunately seems to prety week against most if not all of the metagame. Take a look at the 9 land stompy thread for more ideas.

Kronicler

[gvbarroso]

My bad. I'm new around here. I shall work more on the discussion about the deck later. And yes, goyf are in fact necessary, but Im still to buy the set for me. While T2, they are just too expansive yet.

[Wallace]

Not competitive, IMO.

However, some basic improvements to consider

GOYF
Fetchlands
GOYF
Lotus Petals

Did I mention goyf?

I don't know about you but I think he might want to think about Ghoyf!?

[Bardo]

Shouldn't this be in the New and Developmental Decks Forum?

Yeps. Moved. - Bardo

[gvbarroso]

I've tested the 9-land version of the deck, but I had to mulligan every once and a while because of lack of lands.
I added 4 windswept heat and took the pendelhaven out.
As soon as I have enough money, I'll put 4 goyf in the slots of the River Boas.

But what about the other questions? Do you think there are too many pumps? Should I add another Ghazban Ogre or Skyshroud Elite?
As to the sideboard, which decks should I get worried about?

[dahcmai]

Ghazban Ogre needs to go. The guy is asking for a bolt to your face. Tarmogoyf is obviously the best replacement, but if he's out of your price range, Vine Dryad is a nice replacement also. If people have a lot of non-basics, I wouldn't think twice about upping the amount of Skyshroud Elites either.

Check out Might of Old Krosa also. It's just plain superior to Giant Growth in most occations. It adds one more point to the Zerks too.

[Curby]

9-land Stompy's a funny build that seems to do about as well at $50 as it does at $500. Back on Beyond Dominia, people would even argue about why Mox and Lotus didn't belong in powered Type I builds.

Have you read the Stompy threads here on The Source? Compelling reasons not to use Berserk were given. It's generally seen as too situational. It's hard pressed to match newer pump such as Might of Old Krosa when alone, and when you start running more pump, you run into situations where you have nothing to pump! Doing 50 trample damage is fun, but beware the Dangers of Cool Things.

And regarding Goyf, it seems like it should work. I mean, Stompy's used 2-drop critters before, albeit grudgingly. Definitely needs testing though. With all the RFG effects that Stompy plays, he might end up being an overcosted Skyshroud Elite! In Stompy, 2 power per mana spent is the goal for creatures. Increasingly, we also want evasion and resilience: our pump gives us plenty of beef, so our critters don't need to be so huge. A Ledgewalker wearing a few Rancors or Briar Shields can race, but Goyfs get chump-blocked.

Skarrgan Pit-Skulk is very good in Stompy, and Silhana Ledgewalker makes pump a little safer (2-for-1 plays are harder for the opponent to pull off). Both help your Briar Shields and Rancors hit the opponent directly for more damage over time as well, and the loss of surprise from a main-phase Might of Old Krosa is OK when the critter can't be blocked. The only problem with Ledgewalker is she's got just 1/4 of the power she should have at 2 mana. While Pit-Skulk is also somewhat situational, at worst he's an evasive 1/1 for 1. Making him Bloodthirsty is just nuts. Remember that a turn-zero Vine Dryad really helps your thirsty Pit-Skulks, as does Rancor and all the evasion.

Speaking of which, Vine Dryad carries your pump home against many decks now that people actually play green.

River/Mire Boas only have 1/2 the power that a 2-drop should have, but are another evasive option depending on meta/MU. However, with all the blue decks out there that also play green, do you really need Islandwalk? There should really be faster options.

If you're facing a blue-heavy meta, Rushwood Legate is cute. (Still sideboard material, but cute.)

Don't forget the Disenchant-proof Hidden Gibbons! Many decks like burn can just stockpile up for the final kill, but you'll give them pause before StPing your critter, etc.

A 9 Land Plus Rangers philosophy lets you use Winter Orbs in the side. Since you rely on speed in this increasingly speedy format, they're gold against many decks.

Don't be afraid of using 2-3 Rogue Elephants, though a full set of 4 is likely a bit much. You can run fine off a single Forest and a Ranger, and when lacking sufficient real estate you can simply pitch the Elephant to a Bounty or Dryad.

I guess I'm just repeating what's already been said though...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3871
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4846
top4 stompy-ish list, included for its use of zerk: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5044#post119278

Edit:


Fetchlands
Lotus Petals


Fetches can't get pitched to Dryad or Bounty, nor do they work with Rushwood Legate, Ranger, or Elephant. While they can replace themselves with Forests, there's little point in taking damage, risking a Stifle, and doubling the cost of your deck for just that. The deck-thinning argument for fetches is even worse here than it normally is, since our threat count is already approaching absurd and we'll have good topdeck performance anyway.

Petals can't get pitched to Dryad or Bounty and can't be hardcast in the lategame as a 2/2 creature, nor can they create surprise mana from your hand (for a Giant Growth out of the blue, or to pay for Daze). Stompy can already have 3 critters out on the first turn, one of which is attacking. Any more explosiveness and you start taking bigger and bigger hits in consistency. Just as Goblins uses so many Goblins because they're well... Goblins, we can exploit synergy by using more green spells and basic Forests.

[Lemuria]

Tarmogoyf is a must.


But what about aether vial?

[Curby]

But what about aether vial?

We don't use Aether Vial for much the same reason that we don't use Pouncing Jaguar. No Jag because it kills our second turn development. No Vial because it kills our first turn: we should be casting creatures on the first turn (and in fact, the zero-eth turn). Whenever it's possible to drop your hand on your first turn (and it's certainly possible with Stompy in many ways), you already have plenty of acceleration. Since we'll also be able to cast any creature that we topdeck after that point, Vial is merely slowing us down in nearly every situation.

It's true that Vial can play all sorts of fancy tricks, but it slows down a deck that's all about speed, can't be pitched to Dryad/Bounty, and merely adds to the multiple tricks already available (including Instant-speed blockers and pumpers played while tapped out).

[Gui]

Don't play monogreen cos it can't handle combos =(
Consider creature removals such like jitte and cursed scrooll, cos you'll find some aggro matchups hard too...
Play 20-25 1cc (or lower, as vine dryad) creatures, cos it's the way the deck can be fast enough. Use something like 12 forest + Land Grant + 4 elvish and if you can find room, lotus petal for Goyf.
Use 4x Goyf. It's Abusive when it comes in.

[gvbarroso]

I pretty much agree with the things kirbysdl said.
But I think 1-2 Berserks play an important role in the stompy, and won't bother at all in the open 7 cards like 4 Zerks could do.
Only Silhana doesn't seem to be that good to me (or at least to the current meta I'm in).
With 10-11 lands, I think there's space for 4 fetchlands, specially if one of the rogue elephants is removed.
About Vine Dryad, I think she can only make herself worthy in a meta full of goblins. Here in my state, controls and combos are dominant. And I disagree with my brazilian fellow, when he says stompy can't do anything about combo's. First, it is not uncomun that my criatures win the race against them, and second thing is that Winter Orb is just insane.
In my opinion, Rushwood Legate is not necessary agains controls, but indeed could bu kinda cute when I face a fairy stompy or a counter-sliver.
Thank you all, and I'm waiting for my tips and ideas for the sideboard

[Gui]

Place 2x Winter Orb and 4x Chalice of the Void @ sideboard to face tendrils based combos... Also consider Root maze...
depending on the meta, you should place legate and gibbons, kind of worth against soliodarity..
I would try to consider Skarrgan pit-skulk MD, since it's totally stomp-like
Against control, your main problem is CotV @1, that breaks the hole deck... you should have at least krosan grip sideboards...
I would use Seal of strengh instead of giant growth to play berserk, since you can cast it and wait next turn, and since you'll have a enormous trampling creature...
Yet, i think you should Splash black or even blue to be more able to face combos

[Curby]

About Vine Dryad, I think she can only make herself worthy in a meta full of goblins. Here in my state, controls and combos are dominant.

Besides the increasingly useful Forestwalk ability and respectable toughness, turn-zero Dryads can hit early for Pit-Skulk thirst, increasing the chances for early 2+ power guys and quick clocks. This is less of a concern if early turns in your meta tend to be creature-light though.


In my opinion, Rushwood Legate is not necessary agains controls, but indeed could bu kinda cute when I face a fairy stompy or a counter-sliver.

Or Thresh, or Solidarity, or MUC, ... =)


I would use Seal of strengh instead of giant growth to play berserk, since you can cast it and wait next turn, and since you'll have a enormous trampling creature...

Giant Growth doesn't belong in the deck anymore. Might of Old Krosa protects against Pyroclasm and saves x/2 or bigger creatures from Bolts and Flamebreaks, so it retains most of the surprise factor of Growth. However, with Island/Swamp/Forestwalk options and Silhana/Pit-Skulk evasion, the extra damage from Might is nice and oftentimes they can't block anyway.

Seal of Strength over Might of Old Krosa is difficult to choose, because you're trading two damage (with Berserk) with the ability to pre-cast. Stompy generally gets 2-3 consistent mana anyway between Forests, Land Grants, and Rangers. If you need more than that to chain a huge Berserk, it just goes back to the original argument against the situational nature of Zerk. Building Stompy around a "star" card and making concessions to it can only hurt its overall consistency. Again, refer to the "Dangers of Cool Things" argument.

Seal of Strength can't replace Briar Shield, Bounty, or Rancor either. The best bet is Briar Shield, but 1+1+1+...+3 is better than 0+0+0+...+3. Shield increases the possibility of 2-for-1 plays by the opponent but after all, this is aggro.


Yet, i think you should Splash black or even blue to be more able to face combos

So Thresh, the emerging deck to beat, is trying its hardest to fit Wastelands and Stifles and you're going to include Fetches and Duals? Splashing has always been a tradeoff between consistency and flexibility, but with Stifle, Wasteland, etc., the extra handicap of fragility is introduced. Would you really want to simultaneously be slower, less consistent, and less resilient? All for a Duress?

If you want to add blue to Stompy, just play UG Thresh. Stompy is meant to be a pure philosophy, with many cheap creatures and pump. Much like burn, it can deal 10+ damage in a turn "out of nowhere" but can be weak to disruption and hate. However, it is generally accepted that adding creatures (Ball Lightning), other damage tricks (Cursed Scroll, Ankh of Mishra) or deck slimmers (Baubles, Street Wraiths) weakens the consistency of burn and/or gives the opponent chances to use what would otherwise be dead cards in hand (Pithing Needle, Disenchant, StP). This weakening of burn by adding nonland permanents seems analogous to the weakening of Stompy by adding colors. Sure cards like Ensnaring Bridge can be great when playing burn. But at what cost?

Stompy is a pure aggro deck that relies on threat density and speed to win. If you can't play that game, then it's probably better just to use another deck rather than severely cripple its strengths to provide some answers. Deck archetypes naturally change over time, which is a very good thing. However, at some point you lose the core qualities of the deck and you've made another deck, which is another good but increasingly off-topic thing.

[Gui]

Well, not all for a duress, but since you got manny creatures, possibly some that can be spared, you can also play consistantly cabal therapy... i know the advantage of playing a mono color deck, but if you are to try and combo turn two with berserk, i sugest you to use a 2, or maybe 3 color stompy...
Imo, monogreen stompy should stick to the bunch of low cast-cost creatures, and try a aggro kill, having not much but sideboard and maybe wastelands to figth combo. but it's lack of consistancy against some decks such like solidarity, that can't be beaten by chalice, maze, winter orb or any of the monogreen solutions, should be the main reason not to play this version...
Even so, in my opinion, it's more consistant than try a single-card-combo that is berserk, since you can and will possibly not have berserk every game, being a almost auto-loss... for that reason you sould have a plan B, and imo it's splashing consistancy such as blue draw engines and protections and black disruption that can hit things such like fow's and stp's that hurts a lot for you, even more in a tarmogoyf infested meta

[Jade]

I'm tinkering around with a stompy-build lately, but I'm still not sure about some card choices. I plan to play this deck on a local tourney, so please do not suggest more berserks (or tarmogoyfs), I can't afford them :wink:


pump:
-----
4 might of old krosa
4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
3 Bounty of the Hunt
1x berserk
(16)

Creatures:
---------
4 vine dryad
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Rogue Elephant
3 Skarrgan pit-skulk
3 mire boa
2 Tarmogoyf
2 silhana ledgewalker
(26)

Mana:
------
10 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
(18)

SB:
3 winter orb
4 naturalize
8 ??



I'm not sure about the ledgewalker's as they are weak for their cmc, but on the other hand they are really nice against control and are unblockable more often than not. still...

What should I pack in the side board? Winter orb seems good on paper, actually I thinking about playing them main. Naturalize > krosan grip because cmc 2 > cmc 3. Of course split second would be really hot, but even to get up to 2 mana can be an issue for this deck. Am I wrong here? Any suggestions for the other 8 sb-slots? Regarding the metagame, I think there will be mainly T1 Decks tuned for legacy (Goblins, staxx, fish and probably some landstill). Actually really don't know if I even have chance in such a meta, just tested against solidarity and Ying Yang so far. How would you rate the goblin / staxx / fish / landstill match-ups?

[lukatron2]

I'm tinkering around with a stompy-build lately, but I'm still not sure about some card choices. I plan to play this deck on a local tourney, so please do not suggest more berserks (or tarmogoyfs), I can't afford them :wink:


pump:
-----
4 might of old krosa
4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
3 Bounty of the Hunt
1x berserk
(16)

Creatures:
---------
4 vine dryad
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Rogue Elephant
3 Skarrgan pit-skulk
3 mire boa
2 Tarmogoyf
2 silhana ledgewalker
(26)

Mana:
------
10 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
(18)

SB:
3 winter orb
4 naturalize
8 ??



I'm not sure about the ledgewalker's as they are weak for their cmc, but on the other hand they are really nice against control and are unblockable more often than not. still...

What should I pack in the side board? Winter orb seems good on paper, actually I thinking about playing them main. Naturalize > krosan grip because cmc 2 > cmc 3. Of course split second would be really hot, but even to get up to 2 mana can be an issue for this deck. Am I wrong here? Any suggestions for the other 8 sb-slots? Regarding the metagame, I think there will be mainly T1 Decks tuned for legacy (Goblins, staxx, fish and probably some landstill). Actually really don't know if I even have chance in such a meta, just tested against solidarity and Ying Yang so far. How would you rate the goblin / staxx / fish / landstill match-ups?

For one thing I think that River Boa would be better than Mire Boa unless you're expecting a lot of black decks around. Many of the top tier decks run blue (thresh, landstill, breakfast, ichorid). From my personal experience with the deck, Silhana Ledgewalker is the MVP many times. When combined with pump he makes their swords/spot removal useless, and if they have big guys out, he allows you to keep applying pressure. Plus in the cases where you have Berserk he flat out wins SO many games with your opponents only out being counterspells. I know this will sound crazy but in BERSERK stompy builds or builds that emphasize pump, I would run a set of him over Tarmogoyfs if for some reason I could only run 1 of them. Personally I run Seal of Strength in Briar Shield's place because it makes your opponent think twice before blocking one of your little dudes as you can direct it at any of your guys. But I can also see how you would play shield because it allows you to accumulate damage.

As for sideboard, Krosan grip is very important because it allows you to get through counters and gets rid of Challice and Counterbalance (two cards this deck scoops to). Even though the 3 mana can be difficult it will pay off in the long run. Other good SB cards are Hidden Guerrillas, Hidden Gibbons (I think this card almost warrents a maindeck slot depending on the metagame), Seedtime can be a HOUSE. Avoid fate is good, Umezawa's Jitte is a great card against goblins/fish/aggro. Root maze bides you time and is good against combo. There are plenty of good/flexible options but I played the deck to a great success in local tournaments a while back and those are some of the cards I found most useful. I don't know if Winter Orb is really essential anymore. Thresh functions on one land, goblins has vial, most combo goes off with only 1 or 2 land. The decks it would be good against are more mana intensive decks like landstill, rifter, rabid wombat, life from the loam decks etc. so if you're expecting a lot of those decks it would be good but root maze can function the same to some extent and give you game against decks with fetch lands. I hope this isn't too much and I hope it helped you out a bit. Hopefully you can eventually get a full set of berserk/goyfs...Good luck with the tournament...:D

Tron

[Risberg]

pump:
-----
4 might of old krosa
4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
3 Bounty of the Hunt
1x berserk
(16)

Creatures:
---------
4 vine dryad
4 Jungle Lion
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Rogue Elephant
3 Skarrgan pit-skulk
3 mire boa
2 Tarmogoyf
2 silhana ledgewalker
(26)

Mana:
------
10 Forest
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant

First of all i would not run the Land Grant its a card you depend to much on when you got it on you start hand, you cant afford to lose it in many cases and vs many opponents they know that to plus they will se your hand so they will most likly know if they should counter it. And when it gets counterd most of the time it destroys the whole hand because you have been counting on that land. So i prefer Fetch or just regular forest if you dont run Wild dogs or ghazban ogres, Only when you run whose bad boys i would play with land grant. But it is a little pump for the goyf also :)

I play with the vine dryad my self but day after day when i play the deck i feel that vs 70 % the deck he could have been some other creature instead. Hes really good when you can use his forest walk or suprise block a lackey or a confidant but as a guy in the deck i feel that i rather play 2 of him in main and 2 in sideboard.

mire boa / river boa are oldshcool heroes but nowdays there are other options like shilhana legewalker and pit-sculk and vine dryad in some games. the boas can die fairly easy and when you play an overprized 2/1 you really like him to stay in there and do his part. Thats why the silhanas are better either they stay in play or dont enter play, and when there in the game they will put persure vs any non-combo deck.

Quirion Ranger i would not play him, i prefer more forest instead of playing a creature that cost one mana and turn two you can use him to drop 2 creatures or play rancors or what ever. Instead i would play a better creature on turn one mabe two creatures if i have ESG then turn two drop an other forest and play 2 more guys. PLUS later on when you will have enought mana to play your berserk and some pump.

And every dmg point counts when playing stompy so your Quirion Ranger will be doing 1 or 2 dmg the he will most likely be an easy kill for any creature on the table so most of the time he will just be standing doing nothing except beeing king of the lands. And even if you rancore him if you lose him it will not just be a creature loss, your mana base will also be dmg witch later on may cause trubble.

Its soon christmas so mabe santa will bring you some berserks ;)

[Slayer001]

I have a casual deck that looks almost thesame, but I run scryb sprites, they are nice 1 for a 1/1 flyer together with pump, but it gets kolled by STP and stuff , thats why ledgewalker is better but it costs 1 more and that is sometimes a big problem, depends on what the meta looks like, if i would play this deck at a local tournament here, i would play silhana ledgewalker because of all the ***** & solidarity

[Mooglar]

How exactly does counterbalance scoop to grip?

[Slayer001]

destroy th enchantment and he can't respond to it because of the split second :wink:

[DarkAkuma]

Unless he keeps a 3cc spell on top of his deck, like a smart player would against green. Assuming the counterbalance player has 3cc spells.

[Slayer001]

yes thats the only way :wink:, but most people who play against stompy put it at 1cc they never see it coming :tongue:

[erhnamdjinn]

why are people suggesting goyf? I know he's insanely good, but stompy is more a mono-green aggro deck with little ways of filling the yard with permanents. Your goyf would be only at most time a 3/4 beater and thats not to imppresive. Even in standard MGA goyf is not used. But if you really want goyf in it you will need horizon canopies or that cycling search for a land card in FS.

[Jade]

why are people suggesting goyf? I know he's insanely good, but stompy is more a mono-green aggro deck with little ways of filling the yard with permanents. Your goyf would be only at most time a 3/4 beater and thats not to imppresive. Even in standard MGA goyf is not used. But if you really want goyf in it you will need horizon canopies or that cycling search for a land card in FS.

I found goyf very helpful against other aggro, especially gobbos. With Briar Shield , Rogue Elephant and instant-pump (which randomly owns creatures) goyf is quite easy to support (or just let your opp make him bigger). Oh, and rancored goyf wins goyf-wars. I really want not to play a 2/3 or 3/4 goyf, so I would suggest to run not more than 2 copies.

Horzion canopy is really a bad idea in this deck. You need every mana source you get and the only reason the sac it is to turn it into a fast 3/3 imo. If you need a land in grave and do not run elephant, you can just count on the fetches of your opponent.

[Slayer001]

I'm doubting about goyf also, haven't tested him yet cause i only have 1 :P, and my deck is just plain casual :smile:

[Risberg]

Here is a deck i really cant handle very well. I may win one game at my peek but it runs so smoothly when i cant counter a shit. Am i the only one with this problem or do you guys have any great tech to beat it ?

4 Burning Wish
4 Rite of Flame
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
INSTANTS (20)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Plunge into Darkness
4 Brainstorm
4 Orim’s Chant
ARTIFACTS (12)
4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox

LAND (11)
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tomb of Urami

Hi and thanks :D

[Slayer001]

if you play against this deck you need to be faster with beating then they can combo out. thats the only solution preboard. I know its not much

[Risberg]

The deck is poor and loses vs all non-agro decks T_T, it feels so bad to just auto loss vs it :(

[OffTheWall]

How could you run this deck with out Tarmogoyf? Every other thread for every other deck complains that he is an under priced green beater. What more could you ask for in this deck. Plus with all of the pumps your goyf is bigger than theirs. I ve tried building the deck with him, and it is exactly what this deck needed to become relatively competitive.
Thorn of Amythist and root maze are also in the side to help shut down combo. It has been working very well so far.

[Slayer001]

you can put goyf in it but then you rely on the graveyard of your oponent, its not becoming super big in this deck from only your own deck. and it will make it more expensive. but I play this deck in casual

[Risberg]

The goyf is good but hes not a must in stompy, iam not playing him either.