Galroth
09-25-2007, 01:16 AM
To begin: A couple of links with past discussion concerning B/U discard. All lists presented therein, in my opinion, are less that optimal and hopelessly outdated post-Lorwynn.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6195
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5507&page=2
First question - Why splash blue? There really is only one answer (Yes, I'm going to be a hard-ass on this one. I've played Discard since Ice Age, and it remains my pet deck to this day; so I feel authoritative enough to make this statement.) The answer is Trinketmage. Probably not what you were expecting. I'm not in a compassionate mood at the moment :) so I don't care if that's not what you were expecting. Discard lost all of its black tutors in legacy and it needs a way to find its best kill condition; The Rack. That Trinketmage is a body and allows one to run a smalltoolbox if you really just icing on the cake.
What else does blue offer... cantrips and counters. Counters are essentially unnecesarry because discard fulfills near the same function. And cantrips: I questioned their inclusion for sometime... - more on this later.
The List:
--
DISCARD (12)
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
CREATURES (13)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Trinketmage
2x Shadowmage Infiltrator
3x Hypnotic Specter
CANTRIPS (7)
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
OTHER (8)
4x The Rack
1x Cursed Scroll
3x Smother
LAND (20)
4x Underground Sea
2x Watery Grove
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Island
5x Swamp
The list actually looks closely like a dual-color Hanni fish. Kind of interesting if you ask me. I recently added the cantrips to a B/U discard deck I had been working on for sometime. And lately Hanni began including Shadowmage Infiltrator in his creature base. There are alot of similarities in play style as well between the two decks. Why play this over Hanni fish? Well, if you ask me... with only two colors it has more consistency, and plays a proactive approach (discard versus counter-spells), however it does lack some of the strong creatures Hanni fish includes, and of course Sword to Plowshares.
Card Choices:
The Discard Suite - With the inclusion of Thoughtseize it's pretty easy to determine what the 3 best discard spells are. At one point I was attempting to run Cabal Therapy, because the discard was needed, but the flashback cost was just a bit too much for the deck to really depend on Therapy. Thoughseize is one big reason why this deck is now being posted. The deck is actually competitive now!
The Creature Base - Dark Confidant and Trinket Mage are pretty obvious. If they're not, please pipe up and I'll make a case for them at that time. The draw from Shadowmage Infiltrator is also amazing; and Hypnotic Specter is has been a longtime standard for discard. So why 2 Shadowmages and 3 Hypnotic Specters? Well, first the mana-curve was a bit heavy on the 3cc level. Discard always wants a very low mana-curve to pre-empt the opposing deck's game plan. The other consideration was the need to make room for creature removal. I only have so many spots, and these creatures are harder to cast in most games, and it doesn't hurt if they're not in my opening hand.
Cantrips - 'til about two weeks ago I was running Dark Ritual, and a full compliment of Hyppies. Now that Ponder came out I decided to test it and Brainstorm instead. The improvement is very notable and the second reason I decided it's time to re-examine this deck. Dark Ritual was sadly useless unless in your opening hand, and even then it wasn't as good as in a mono-black build. The cantrips however, allow for additional deck manipulation to find what you need. This is especially important either at the very beginning of the game when you have to find a discard spell to take away the card that will wreck you. Or, even more commonly, to find The Rack or Trinketmage once you've depleted there hand. One of the classic problems of Discard is its slow clock. Cantrips help this. Cantrips also allow one to run less removal than typical, while still keeping it effective. Paired with the draw from Confidant and Infiltrator, finding atleast 1 removal spell a game is really no issue.
Smother - This slot is the contentious slot. I considered cunning wish instead. You could just as easily wish up Contagion or Snuff Out or Smother... or some sort of bounce for artifacts and enchantments. I ultimately chose Smother because Confidant doesn't pair well with Contagion or Snuff Out, Smother takes care of most of the problems, and I usually don't want to spend the extra mana for the flexibility that Cunning Wish provides me. However, I will admit that perhaps this should be tested more. Especially in the light that a sideboard for this deck is less important than for most decks. The maindeck needs and wants just about everything it has.
And now we open for discussion... (woot!)
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6195
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5507&page=2
First question - Why splash blue? There really is only one answer (Yes, I'm going to be a hard-ass on this one. I've played Discard since Ice Age, and it remains my pet deck to this day; so I feel authoritative enough to make this statement.) The answer is Trinketmage. Probably not what you were expecting. I'm not in a compassionate mood at the moment :) so I don't care if that's not what you were expecting. Discard lost all of its black tutors in legacy and it needs a way to find its best kill condition; The Rack. That Trinketmage is a body and allows one to run a smalltoolbox if you really just icing on the cake.
What else does blue offer... cantrips and counters. Counters are essentially unnecesarry because discard fulfills near the same function. And cantrips: I questioned their inclusion for sometime... - more on this later.
The List:
--
DISCARD (12)
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
CREATURES (13)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Trinketmage
2x Shadowmage Infiltrator
3x Hypnotic Specter
CANTRIPS (7)
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
OTHER (8)
4x The Rack
1x Cursed Scroll
3x Smother
LAND (20)
4x Underground Sea
2x Watery Grove
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Island
5x Swamp
The list actually looks closely like a dual-color Hanni fish. Kind of interesting if you ask me. I recently added the cantrips to a B/U discard deck I had been working on for sometime. And lately Hanni began including Shadowmage Infiltrator in his creature base. There are alot of similarities in play style as well between the two decks. Why play this over Hanni fish? Well, if you ask me... with only two colors it has more consistency, and plays a proactive approach (discard versus counter-spells), however it does lack some of the strong creatures Hanni fish includes, and of course Sword to Plowshares.
Card Choices:
The Discard Suite - With the inclusion of Thoughtseize it's pretty easy to determine what the 3 best discard spells are. At one point I was attempting to run Cabal Therapy, because the discard was needed, but the flashback cost was just a bit too much for the deck to really depend on Therapy. Thoughseize is one big reason why this deck is now being posted. The deck is actually competitive now!
The Creature Base - Dark Confidant and Trinket Mage are pretty obvious. If they're not, please pipe up and I'll make a case for them at that time. The draw from Shadowmage Infiltrator is also amazing; and Hypnotic Specter is has been a longtime standard for discard. So why 2 Shadowmages and 3 Hypnotic Specters? Well, first the mana-curve was a bit heavy on the 3cc level. Discard always wants a very low mana-curve to pre-empt the opposing deck's game plan. The other consideration was the need to make room for creature removal. I only have so many spots, and these creatures are harder to cast in most games, and it doesn't hurt if they're not in my opening hand.
Cantrips - 'til about two weeks ago I was running Dark Ritual, and a full compliment of Hyppies. Now that Ponder came out I decided to test it and Brainstorm instead. The improvement is very notable and the second reason I decided it's time to re-examine this deck. Dark Ritual was sadly useless unless in your opening hand, and even then it wasn't as good as in a mono-black build. The cantrips however, allow for additional deck manipulation to find what you need. This is especially important either at the very beginning of the game when you have to find a discard spell to take away the card that will wreck you. Or, even more commonly, to find The Rack or Trinketmage once you've depleted there hand. One of the classic problems of Discard is its slow clock. Cantrips help this. Cantrips also allow one to run less removal than typical, while still keeping it effective. Paired with the draw from Confidant and Infiltrator, finding atleast 1 removal spell a game is really no issue.
Smother - This slot is the contentious slot. I considered cunning wish instead. You could just as easily wish up Contagion or Snuff Out or Smother... or some sort of bounce for artifacts and enchantments. I ultimately chose Smother because Confidant doesn't pair well with Contagion or Snuff Out, Smother takes care of most of the problems, and I usually don't want to spend the extra mana for the flexibility that Cunning Wish provides me. However, I will admit that perhaps this should be tested more. Especially in the light that a sideboard for this deck is less important than for most decks. The maindeck needs and wants just about everything it has.
And now we open for discussion... (woot!)