[Deck] Idle Hand - Black Discard

[Clark Kant]

I think Thoughtseize just made the discard archeatype a lot stronger. And the deck is a lot of fun to play.

Here is the list I'm proposing. The deck still needs work and is early, but I think it's a good start.

// Discard
2 Extripate/Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

// Threats
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Specter

// Utility
4 Reanimate
3 Smother/Pernicious Deed

// Mana
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Pit
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
7 Swamp

Also up for consideration... Sensei's Divining Top along with eight fetchlands. It combos great with Confidant and works great all by itself with the fetchlands. Plus it helps prevent you from drawing discard in the late game when you might not need it.

In case you guys don't realize it, Reanimate is absolutely incredible here. It can take your opponents Goyfs after you made them discard them. Or it can just reanimate your own if they get killed.

What do you guys think? What cards should get the boot? What cards should be added?

Edit: Cut 2 Extripate/Cabal Therapy and Nezumi Shortfang at Barook's suggestion. Now the deck is a closer to Green Death than it is discard. But it's also overall stronger imo.

[Barook]

I like the Reanimate idea. But I would really cut down the discard section a bit. You don't run enough creatures to really support Cabal Therapy, at least in the MD (even with 8 hand showers). I would rather run Hymn to Tourach in its slot.

Nezumi Shortfang is another thing that bothers me. It takes at least 2x :1::b: and 2 turns to get the "real" thing into play. I would rather run more Gators/Hippies in its slot.

[Jak]

Would you call this discard? I think it resembles green death or something but adds 4 more discard spells instead of sinkhole. I remember making a casual discard deck with every kind of mono black specter. Oh, it was fun. The finisher was Guiltfeeder.

[Clark Kant]

Good point about Cabal Therapy and Shortfang. I cut them both and cut back on Extripate too to make room for a playset of both Negator and Hippe.

You're right, without Shortfang, it's essentially Green Death but with discard and reanimate over land destruction and rancor.

[LordEvilTeaCup]

Meh, I thought that Nezumi Shortfang was sweet tech in this. I seriously think you can make him work. Without him, the deck is way less interesting... With all the discard, emptying the oppoent's hand should not be too hard. Still, the reanimate/therapy combo is pretty hot too.

[Cait_Sith]

It would be hot if it didn't take up a huge chunk of your life. The way it works is that the only creature worth taking would be Tarmogoyf, as every other one would either be easily killed or leave you need dead upon its arrival.

[GiantGrowth]

@ cait sith

most creatures you would be reanimating wouldn't be over 4 life lost(if that). It's already been said that this resembles green death, and in a sui-ish list Im not sure how much up to 4 life is gonna matter all that much. mabey in conjuction with bob, thoughtseize, and a few cracked fetches, but whatever creature you get isn't necesarily going to die instantly and it will most likely at least be a chump blocker if nothing else, to block more damage than you paid to get it, and thats at the very least. thats all how i see it and completely IMO btw.

[goobafish]

Unearth is probably stronger than Reanimate.

[Happy Gilmore]

Unearth is probably stronger than Reanimate.

Reanimate can target creatures in your opponent's graveyard.

[goobafish]

I know. But you can expect that you're creatures will be killed. I dont know that it is a great play to thoughtsieze an opponent's Goyf, then reanimate it. Thats a ton of life.

[Tacosnape]

I'm not entirely convinced I like Reanimate over Unearth here either. I'm not convinced I like either one, actually, but Unearth at least cycles if you don't need it. Besides, Confidant and Thoughtseize is plenty of life loss as it is, and there's no lifegain in your list.

[bigbear102]

Before reading everybody else saying it, I thought of Unearth also. SDT is also a good idea. It lets you not die to Confidant, and lets you get to your beaters/removal when you need them. I would definitely have Jittes in your board for the aggro matchups, nobody is gonna bring arti hate against you. And it wins Goyf fights like nobody's business.

[Pinder]

If you're already running green, what about Nath of the Gilt-Leaf (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=143370)? Probably way too expensive, but once he hits you get a lot of little dudes to play with.

[rufus]

You could use animate dead to pull critters out of graveyards if you like. Aside from Pernicious Deed, there aren't any enchantments on your list.

[Clark Kant]

Reanimate adds so much flexibility that it's well worth the two life.

Yes Unearth brings back your own Goyfs too. But what if you hadn't drawn a Goyf yet, or your Goyf got StPed, not sent to the yard. Unearth is dead too often to be worth running.

And Unearth is damn near useless early game. Where Reanimate goes beautifully with your discard and Smother early game too.

Reanimate is practically never dead. You make your opponent discard their Goyf, or Sea Drake, or whatever happens to be the best creature in their deck. Or if you didn't make them discard it, you Smother it. Then you bring it in on your side.

Turn one Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize a Sea Drake, Duress a FoW, Reanimate the Sea Drake is a fantastic play. But Unearth just sits around in your hand most of the early game.

You end up Reanimating your opponents creatures more than you end up reanimating your own esp early game.

Here's what I'm currently running...

2 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Dark Ritual
4 Reanimate
4 Smother

4 Goyf
4 Confidant
4 Specter
4 Negator

19 Land

Like Unearth, lategame Reanimate essentially lets your run 8 Goyfs (4 with only 1cc). But it's the early game where Reanimate shines while Unearth is near useless.

[goobafish]

Turn one Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize a Sea Drake, Duress a FoW, Reanimate the Sea Drake is a fantastic play. But Unearth just sits around in your hand most of the early game.

That is a 5 card combo.


Unearth brings back all of your creatures, because all of the creatures are of such high quality, reanimating your creatures will probably be better than reanimating theirs.

[Clark Kant]

It could just as easily be turn one Thoughtseize, turn 2 Reanimate. Or Turn one Duress, Turn two Cabal Therapy + Reanimate.

I was just making the point that Reanimate allows for great early plays, while Unearth sits dead in your hand early on.

This is a very fast deck. It can't afford to run a slow card when it could run a much faster version of the same card for just 2 life.

[Clark Kant]

What do you guys think of splashing white instead of green.

It gives you vindicate, jotun grunt (wins fights with Goyf) and gerrard's verdict and stp if you have room. You can play it along with Wasteland and Sinkhole.

My main concern is that it makes the deck too slow and controllish. But it might be better. What do you guys think?

[from Cairo]

What do you guys think of splashing white instead of green.

It gives you vindicate, jotun grunt (wins fights with Goyf) and gerrard's verdict and stp if you have room. You can play it along with Wasteland and Sinkhole.

My main concern is that it makes the deck too slow and controllish. But it might be better. What do you guys think?

Isn't it basicly just Deadguy by then? That may be a better deck, I don't really know, but I guess the question would be what does this deck do differently, would the added control be stronger than raw speed?

What about Rancor as a 3-4 of? Helps win Goyf battles and 4/2 fliers are pretty tight.

[BlinX]

Just an idea =s.. but if you're running some sort of heavy discard deck would Tempting Wurm be any good? If you could nullify the drawback of Tempting Wurm 1G for a 5/5 seems descent. Just a cute idea =s

[Iranon]

Actually, things like Nezumi Shortfang and The Rack are quite playable, but not alongside Deed. Probably more suited to a mono-black build.

I'd also like to point out that Funeral Charm is a worthy addition to any deck that tries to empty the opponent's hand completely (it also kills Lackeys and Confidants).