A new idea

[boris13]

Well I have an idea for a deck, but I am not to sure it would be that great. Please tell me what you think about it.

Mana Base

4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
7 Island
7 Swamp

Spells

4 Counterspell
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Looter il Kor
4 Standstill
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm or Ponder
4 Extripate
2 Phyrexian Negator
2 Engineered Plague
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Dark confidants


I know theres more I can put in here, but I am a newer leagacy player and I don't have many good cards like Force of will. And should I play Ponder or Brainstorm?

[boris13]

I also forgot to mention a sideboard which I have't thought of. I would also like it someone gave me ideas on what to include in my sideboard.

[outsideangel]

The first rule of making a good deck is to use good cards. Force of Will, Thoughtseize, and Underground Sea are all good cards that should be in this deck. If you're serious about Legacy you should aim at getting access to these types of cards. Simple replacing Extirpate with Thoughtseize, Counterspell or Daze with Force, Looter with Shadowmage Infiltrator, etc. will make the deck better.

Then you need to look at what your deck does and cannot do. For example, you have a lot of card drawing in Looter, Standstill, and Confidant. You have nothing to affect the opponent's board. You can draw you're whole deck but you can't answer a Tarmogoyf or a Solitary Confinement or a Turn 1 EtW for 10+. You're not playing combo, so you can't ignore those things and just win, and you don't have any real damage, so you can't overpower it or win before it's relevant. Engineered Explosives will really help here.

Then look at what doesn't belong. What's Negator doing here, for example, as a 2-of? If you want a mid-late game powerhouse, there are many better cards. Tombstalker is something to think about here. If you want early game beaters, then you need more than just Negs and more than just two of them, or it's nowhere near consistent enough to be a reliable gameplan.

And what about Standstill? It's obvious you want some card draw, but does Standstill work here? Can you drop any threats before you drop Standstill? No. Can you deploy any threats while under a Standstill, like Landstill or Fish with Vial can? No. Can you answer the threats the opponent plays before you drop Standstill? No. Do you even have a bunch of expensive things that would make you want to sit under a Standstill playing draw-land-go? No. So why play Standstill at all? How does it fit into your gameplan and how does it work with the rest of the deck? I think that it doesn't.

The sideboard is something you really develop after some testing. Find out what you're weak against, and then start to think about what you should be preparing for.

[boris13]

Yes I see the standstills don't seem to fit in. I was thinking about Tombstaker since I really like him. Thanks for your reply

[from Cairo]

Hymn and Counterspell as 2cc spells makes for hard color consistency issues right off the bat. I'd suggest pick a main color and pick a splash. Looking at the list B/u seems like what you're going for.

4 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea (or the lesser reprint if budget reasons prevent Useas)
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island

4 Dark Confidant
4 Looter Il-Kor
4 Volidian Zombie
4 Hypnotic Spectre
3 Shadowmage Infiltrator

4 Brainstorm
3 Stifle
3 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will (could be Daze or a removal spell of some kind)
3 Jitte (or Sword of Fire/Ice)

Basic idea being fish, play a bunch of guys that generate huge card advantage either through raw drawing with Infiltrator/Specter/Confidant or card quality through Brainstorm/Looter... Zombie is a solid Goyf blocker or can sneak through for final points against Thresh... Vial + Standstill for cheating your guys in under it, and drawing 3 when your opponent is forced to answer them. Jitte or Sword cause its nuts and you can get guys through unblocked alot of the time so it can serve to cover your removal if its attached to a Shadowmage, Looter or Spectre. Stifle + Wasteland gives you a bit of a land destruction option, that can be pretty massive against Thresh or trip up control in some situations.

Thats the direction I would take it anyway, something along those lines.

[boris13]

Well I will just get a bunch of thoses cards and test it all out and see how it goes.

[Tacosnape]

Hypnotic Specter has no business in decks that don't run Dark Ritual. Personally I'm not convinced they have business in decks that are for Legacy period, but especially not here.

I think as long as you're making the U/B Fish deck, you might as well run the right creatures in it. Such as not playing jank like Looter Il-Kor (What is it with all you guys and LiK? He's terrible!)

Don't overlook the entire Dimir House for this deck. Dimir Cutpurse is decent, Dimir Guildmage is underrated as a midgame card generator, and Dimir Infiltrator is not only an evasive threat with a high defense but one who can tutor up a Jitte, a Standstill, a Confidant, or whatever else you need in a pinch.

[from Cairo]

Dimir Infiltrator is very strong, Cutpurse is ok if he's reliably connecting.

You could drop Specter and a couple of the 4 ofs down to 3 ofs for the Dimir guys if you felt so inclined.

The Guildmage seems awful though, 4 mana sorcery speed draw... I would much rather have Looter Il-Kor, he'll be pinging every turn, carrying equipment like a champ and sifting through the deck pitching extra land for relevant cards... and not costing 4 mana to activate.

[Aggro_zombies]

Dimir Infiltrator is very strong, Cutpurse is ok if he's reliably connecting.

You could drop Specter and a couple of the 4 ofs down to 3 ofs for the Dimir guys if you felt so inclined.

The Guildmage seems awful though, 4 mana sorcery speed draw... I would much rather have Looter Il-Kor, he'll be pinging every turn, carrying equipment like a champ and sifting through the deck pitching extra land for relevant cards... and not costing 4 mana to activate.
Keep in mind that he also says that for :3::b: target player discards a card. When backed up by good removal and/or a reasonable clock, repetitive discard effects are a kick in the nuts for decks like Thresh. Just kill any Goyfs they topdeck and ride your men to victory.

I ran a :u::b: Fish deck for a while, and there were a couple of things I found. One, if you're running Dimir Infiltrators, why not run Counterbalance? Decks like this one tend to have a high concentration of spells in the one, two, and three cc slot, which is good with Counterbalance. You can also run Trinket Mage and run an artifact toolbox (cuts down on the number of Tops you need main, too), or just run 3 Sensei's Divining Top. The other thing is that your guys are really vulnerable to removal. None of the creatures you run have Tarmogoyf's advantage of growing out of range of a lot of removal in this format, and losing a guy when you're not hitting for very much a turn is a setback you don't want to have to deal with. I found a decent way out in running a couple Kira, Great Glass Spinner...or whatever it's called. He doesn't play well with equipment but he forces your opponent to leave your guys unanswered or spend two spells on them. This can be especially relevant if you're forcing through an evasive beater with Jitte, as losing him at the wrong time is...bad, to say the least.

Just my two cents.

[boris13]

Im also thinking of trying out Night's whisper. I've always wanted to use it and wasn't sure if it really as good as it seems.

[outsideangel]

Im also thinking of trying out Night's whisper. I've always wanted to use it and wasn't sure if it really as good as it seems.

It's not. It doesn't do enough for 2 mana. Impulse is probably always better.

[Aggro_zombies]

It's not. It doesn't do enough for 2 mana. Impulse is probably always better.
First part QFT, second part is a bit sketchy though.

Predict is a better draw two for two than Night's Whisper, since the former is an instant, doesn't cause life loss, and plays well with Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, and Serum Visions/Portent.

[boris13]

To sasa batora I forgot to mention the Echoing Truth, but I put it in the deck now thanks for saying that or I would have forgotten all about it. I also forgot about Pithing Needles which are going into my board also.

[boris13]

Anything else anyone could tell me that would go better or good in this deck?

[Aggro_zombies]

Anything else anyone could tell me that would go better or good in this deck?
A splash. I was never able to get straight :u::b: to work. You can splash green for Goyf and maybe Deeds if you're masochistic like that, or red for Pyroclasm and burn. White gives you MM and Swords but that's about it for the useful stuff.