[Question] Combatting Graveyard Destruction (Tormod's Crypt/Morningtide)

[Curby]

I've heard that graveyard-heavy decks such as Threshold and Dredge can play around graveyard bombs such as Crypt, but I'm not sure how that works. Do you simply slow-play after reaching Thresh so you can more quickly recover from a bomb? How does dredge play when expecting such bombs?

How does Crypt and Morningtide differ in the way they play? Specifically, Morningtide was suggested over Crypt for combating Thresh: why not just use Crypt? They are both cast at Sorcery speed, and while Crypt can be Stifled, it can be precast to later go off at any useful time.

Thanks!

[Aggro_zombies]

I've heard that graveyard-heavy decks such as Threshold and Dredge can play around graveyard bombs such as Crypt, but I'm not sure how that works. Do you simply slow-play after reaching Thresh so you can more quickly recover from a bomb? How does dredge play when expecting such bombs?

How does Crypt and Morningtide differ in the way they play? Specifically, Morningtide was suggested over Crypt for combating Thresh: why not just use Crypt? They are both cast at Sorcery speed, and while Crypt can be Stifled, it can be precast to later go off at any useful time.

Thanks!
Morningtide turns Goyf into a 1/2 immediately - the problem with Goyf is that he counts card types in both graveyards, making one-sided hate ineffective against him.

Secondly, Thresh is less dependent on reaching threshold that it used to be. Only Mongoose in most build has Thresh, since Tarmogoyf is leagues better than any threshold guy you could run.

Also, nobody plays dredge with thresh, because the deck doesn't *need* threshold to smash your face in.

[DeathwingZERO]

From my experiences with Ichorid, you just bait the opponent with enough power in the graveyard to force them into a predicament on when to set off a Crypt. Usually it's seeing multiple dredge creatures in the yard, or 2 or more Bridges, or if you've hit enough Therapies to make them worry about their hand's power. Most of the time it's hardly a problem seeing just one Crypt on the other side of the table, as it's very easy to put pressure from limited amounts of dredge creatures and Bridges.

[Curby]

Morningtide turns Goyf into a 1/2 immediately - the problem with Goyf is that he counts card types in both graveyards, making one-sided hate ineffective against him.

Whoops, ok. Forgot 'tide hits all yards.


Secondly, Thresh is less dependent on reaching threshold that it used to be. Only Mongoose in most build has Thresh, since Tarmogoyf is leagues better than any threshold guy you could run.

I think the white splash used to run a gold angel-thing, and the red splash uses/used Fledgling Dragon. (I haven't really kept up with all the newest tech.) Overall though, Goyf certainly seems to be the biggest problem.


Also, nobody plays dredge with thresh, because the deck doesn't *need* threshold to smash your face in.

Yeah, I meant UGx Thresh and Dredge as two different archetypes that use the graveyard. I agree you wouldn't normally find Thresh cards in a Dredge deck. Well, Putrid Imp doesn't count as Thresh. :tongue:

Seeing how 'tide kills your own yard, it might be good against opposing Extirpates, though I suppose they usually do a first turn Ritual, Duress/Hymn, Extirpate to cripple you handily.

@Deathwing: I'm actually worried about a local Ichorid player (who's probably reading this thread). Trying to decide between Tides and Crypts, because I can't afford 8 slots in the side. Tides seem to be more useful against Thresh, but two Crypts on the board gives Ichorid a lot to think about, whereas one or more 'tides in hand give Therapy something to eat. Hell, I'd side in Leylines if I were playing black.

[Finn]

This is one of the big reasons I love Legacy. If you REALLY know what you are doing when you are designing a deck or even a side board, you will account for the fact that the best decks are simply not going to fold to a silver bullet. You want to beat Ichorid? Fine. You must have that in mind from the moment you conceive of the primary strategy for your deck. Same goes for Threshold, Goblins, etc. That is the biggest difference between the 5-10 decks that get submitted to the development forum per week by whomever and the one every six months that you hear tearing up the scene.

You can't attack Thresh by way of its graveyard. I would not even side in the Crypts if they are in my sb any more.

You can't expect Ichorid to die to a Crypt either - not if the pilot is capable. You need to apply return pressure and have enough control elements to either continually deny it access to the graveyard or keep its crittters from attacking you while you assemble your kill.