[Deck] Cividale UGW Special Brew

[Nihil Credo]

The following list made Top 8 in a 33-player tournament in Cividale (Italy). I've never seen anything like this, and the pilot didn't post on any forum about it, so I thought I'd put it here to have it dissected. It seems very rich in tech.

Edit: list fixed, thanks Bigbear!

4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted delta
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
3 Tundra
4 Tropical Island

4 Vinelasher Kudzu
4 Fathom Seer
2 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Exalted Angel

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Exploration
2 Life from the Loam
2 Stifle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Portent

Sideboard:
3 Dueling Grounds
3 Jötun Grunt
3 Meddling Mage
2 Krosan Grip
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Wasteland

[spirit of the wretch]

This surely looks interessting, although the list seems rather unrefined. In my opinion that single Portent and the Truth better be additional LftL and Explorations as these cards are crucial to the decks basic strategy. Nevertheless the decks concept is pretty impressive and Vesuvan Shapeshifter might be savage tech (good against Goyfs, Sliver, Sutured Ghoul and broken with the Seer).
I also love the synergie the Kudzu has with the rest of the deck. Seems promising.

Edit: Is it just me, or is the mainboard missing one card?

[FakeSpam]

Man, that looks like fun. I think it needs more shapeshifters, but that's just me.

[shaftshaftner]

would crop rotation have a place? grows kudzu, thins deck, could use to tutor up lands like wasteland g2 and g3

[bigbear102]

I would definitely say that the deck needs more Shapeshifter. I would keep the Truth, but cut the Portent, and it is 59 cards as posted, so you eventually get 3 Shapeshifters, which is perfect.


Obv. not good, but I so wanna add the pickles combo in here. lol

[FakeSpam]

I'm also kinda wondering why wasteland is a sideboard card. It seems so easy to drop a vinelasher down and then just set up loam/wasteland while you wreck your opponent.

[Cait_Sith]

The wasteland is probably SB because of the insane color requirements. WW, double Islands, you want Green early on.

Also, this deck is SICK. I got a turn 2 5/5 Vinelasher Kudzu. It was hilarious (A 3/4 Goyf joined it turn 3. By turn 5 it was a 10/10 with a 4/5 Goyf and 2 Fathom Seers. So hot.)

[FakeSpam]

The wasteland is probably SB because of the insane color requirements. WW, double Islands, you want Green early on.

I'm not sold on the Angel either. It just doesn't seem worth it. Without it, it means maindeck wasteland.. and that seems much better.

[Lego]

I'm not sold on the Angel either. It just doesn't seem worth it. Without it, it means maindeck wasteland.. and that seems much better.

That was my first thought looking at the deck... "Angel?!?"... I'd be tempted to cut White completely. Bob seems like he'd be good here, although removal is also necessary, and I'm not the biggest fan of Smother. Ghastly Demise seems vaguely playable, but it won't be very good early game.

[FakeSpam]

I don't think angel is the right call, but white is fine for stp and sideboard options. Also, that gives you a good reason to run Horizon Canopy.

Shit. My list is turning into a bastard child of Gro and Eternal Garden.


Actually, that doesn't sound all that bad.

[Cait_Sith]

I wouldn't be surprised if Angel was a very good meta call; it IS a strong aggro creature AND can cause MORE morph nightmares for opponents. The strain on the mana base can be crazy though and, at least in the US, big Goyfs/Kudzus should be able to rock on their own.

I would cut the two angels for 2 more Portents and the two Stifles for an Echoing Truth and an Exploration.

I would make a whole bunch of SB changes, but wonder:

Dueling Grounds or Ghostly Prison? I am liking Prison more to be honest. Exchange the Grunts for Crypts, and cut the Jitte's for a Grip and a Wasteland.

How does that sound? (Or maybe I could sneak some MD Wasteland thanks to upped Explorations).

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Wasteland in the SB seems pretty bad!
Whene you side it in what to take out? spells or lands?

[Waikiki]

I dont really understand the use of Life from the loam. And also the landcount seems a bit low to me for explorations.

[94teen]

Is Horizon Canopy really necessary in this deck? I mean, by the time you set that up you could just as easily set up Fathom Seer + Shapeshifter, which gets 2 cards and doesn't need you to use your land drop. Not to say Horizon Canopy wouldn't work, it just seems...excessive.

Also, what does anyone else think of adding Mongeese? 'Goyfs and Mongeese are two of the most difficult creatures in the format to deal with right now, especially since everyone is playing more 'Goyf removal, which makes mongeese more difficult to deal with. Especially since Shapeshifter can copy Mongeese, this would seem to be something pretty useful.

[FakeSpam]

Is Horizon Canopy really necessary in this deck? I mean, by the time you set that up you could just as easily set up Fathom Seer + Shapeshifter, which gets 2 cards and doesn't need you to use your land drop. Not to say Horizon Canopy wouldn't work, it just seems...excessive.


Shapeshifter doesn't morph for free.

I'm just saying, you are already running green, white, and life from the loam.. why not put some lands in that draw some cards?

Oh. I screwed around with Crop Rotation. Sucks.

[FakeSpam]

Double-Post FTW!

I've been doing a lot of work on this deck, and I'm back to where it started. Kinda.

Angel makes it's way back in because there is a need to have some evasion for the late game. It was either this, or add mystic enforcer. I suppose they are about even. Angel helps offset the life loss on all the fetching.

Cutting out stifle, the portent, and the echoing truth allowed me to add three wastelands and the fourth exploration. The wastelands keep daze as a relevant threat well into the later game.

That brings it down to 18 blue cards. I'm not a fan of that.

Also, it means no stifle. That's not too cool either. When I think of deed on the board against me, I get hives. That, and stifle would sure be awesomeness with wasteland already making the cut.

I'm wondering if Loam is better than Crucible for this deck. We aren't trying to dredge into anything with it, and we aren't using the lands it brings back for anything other than playing them again. I don't know if it's worth giving up draws and mana every turn to do that.

...hrm.

[Jak]

Okay this deck looks awesome. I really love everything about it. I personally think that the creature base is fine. No need to cut anything or add anything. That is said without testing, so maybe a one drop like Mongoose would be strong. I think I might try to test a list like this.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Wasteland

4 Vinelasher Kudzu
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Fathom Seer
2 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
2 Exalted Angel

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
3 Exploration
2 Crucible of the Worlds

Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Meddling Mage
3 Krosan Grip
2 Umezawa's Jitte

I agree with famespam on that Crucible does seem better. Dredging sucks when you are unlucky like me and put the goods in the GY.

[dude 666]

Why are we running white again? White gives us swords and angel...and that's it (ok, I'll admit some stuff in the board). It seems to me we'd be better off cutting white and running it straight U/G. This means we can afford to run wastes mainboard, and also more blue cards for force.

[FakeSpam]

The Decklist

I'm pretty much right here, card for card. I really want to play a horizon canopy, so I would cut the delta for it. Not that it really changes a whole lot.

U/G only leaves us without any removal. Unsummon isn't savage tech. I think white is fine. Besides, I would really want to have pikula/teeg waiting for me in the board.

Wastes in the main don't bother me at all. I wouldn't want less than 21 lands with exploration anyway. That, and the color requirements for this deck are pretty minimal. I mean, sure, you want to hit green, blue, and double white pretty quickly. But you can still play a good chunk of your spells for 3 colorless.

[dude 666]

U/G only leaves us without any removal. Unsummon isn't savage tech. I think white is fine. Besides, I would really want to have pikula/teeg waiting for me in the board.

Wastes in the main don't bother me at all. I wouldn't want less than 21 lands with exploration anyway. That, and the color requirements for this deck are pretty minimal. I mean, sure, you want to hit green, blue, and double white pretty quickly. But you can still play a good chunk of your spells for 3 colorless.

What exactly do you need removal for? Creatures? Our creatures are much bigger than the opponent's, and there is always pongify. Splashing white for swords seems unnecessary.

Other colors could be more promising, I was thinking red for burn, more specifically, fireblast. Fireblast works really well in conjunction with crucible and Kudzu. Just a thought.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

This is indeed a very cool deck, but I think that if you stay white, you need to run some Savannahs (at least one) to smooth out the fetching.


I also have to agree that the white portion of the maindeck is currently not impressing me all that much. I'd be very interested in a red splash, actually.

In any case, a very cool attempt to rid Thresh of its graveyard--I think that it has a LOT of potential. How have you guys found the primary matchups playing out?

[Jak]

Don't cut white. You cut it for what? A more stable mana base? The base is fine and white gives us a decent finisher and the best removal.

[slyfer]

I had some strange problems of flooding... and also very poor topdeck.
I think the reason is that if some "sequences" of draw appears, like "topdeck a kudzu" or "topdeck an exploration" or braistorm into "land, exploration kudzu"... :rolleyes:

it's strange, mabye it's MWS faults, or maybe is the the deck itself.

Sometimes you just draw things in the undesired order and this screw up the deck.
The deck need to "build up", like "fetches + kudzu + loam" or other sequences... threshold doesn't need to build up....it plays normally, drop threats, make some counters, etc... doesn't spend mana to "pump" the engine, spend mana to draw + counter once dropped a dude

[Jak]

I thought I should post this idea here, since I think the decks would turn out, somewhat, the same.

I was thinking about how to make TerraGeddon competative over here and the only thing I could think of would be add Tarmogoyf and counters. I really liked the idea of using Loam, Exploration, and Armageddon with counters. I tried to build a list, but just couldn't think of what to cut, but here was the core.

20-22 Lands (2-4 Wastes, 2-3 Maze of Ith, 4 "cyclers", 8 Fetches, 2-3 Basics, Ruins, 8 Duals)

8-13 Creatures (Goyf, Kudzu, Seer, 1 Genesis)

12 Lands Stuff (Exploration, Loam, Geddon)

8-14 Counters (Force, Daze, Stifle, Snare)

3-11 Random (Brainstorm, StP, 2-3 EE)

That was basically the list, but could not find things to cut. I think the deck would be interesting. THoughts?

[Cait_Sith]

I put 4 Sea Drake into this deck, and you should too. With 7-8 cards that make its downside anywhere from irrelevant to a boon, a big, cheap, flier is the way to go.

[Jak]

Well, yeah. Sea Drake would be amazing, but I really don't want to dish out 200 for a set. It would go in if I could afford them.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I had some strange problems of flooding... and also very poor topdeck.
I think the reason is that if some "sequences" of draw appears, like "topdeck a kudzu" or "topdeck an exploration" or braistorm into "land, exploration kudzu"... :rolleyes:

it's strange, mabye it's MWS faults, or maybe is the the deck itself.

Sometimes you just draw things in the undesired order and this screw up the deck.
The deck need to "build up", like "fetches + kudzu + loam" or other sequences... threshold doesn't need to build up....it plays normally, drop threats, make some counters, etc... doesn't spend mana to "pump" the engine, spend mana to draw + counter once dropped a dude



I think it's just MWS; I've had the same problems.

I'm surprised that this hasn't proven much more popular; it's a strong contendor, great fun to play, and an excellent grave-less alternative to Threshold. I'm still not all that happy with white though, to be honest. It's really not adding much to the deck, in my opinion. I think I'll test a small red splash for myself, see if I have any more success.

[Adan]

Fathom Seer is good. Especially because then everyone let's Exalted Angel resolve, hih.
What I really like about Seer: He boosts Hoofprints of the Stag like HELL. Where they at??

[Nihil Credo]

Good call, Adan. Hoofprints has the big advantage of being a flying 'fattie' that does not require double white mana.

Also, given that the deck runs as many and as big creatures as you'll ever see in the format short of Sutured Ghoul and Phyrexian Dreadnought, might Swords to Plowshares be cut in favour of some Equipment? It works well with the fliers, makes Seer something more than a draw spell, and Jitte or Sophie can still handle the annoying non-combat stuff like Dark Confidant or Mother of Runes.

[FakeSpam]

I've gone the opposite way so far on this. Cutting Angel completely. In fact, white is just for Swords to Plowshares now. It makes it easier on the manabase. I find swords is powerful enough to splash for. Especially since neither green nor blue have any real removal. I guess I could play Psionic Blast over it. Or not. That works too.

Cutting out the stifles and the angels make room for sea drakes. They make the deck much more explosive. I found in testing, I would constantly use fathom seer to generate mana. Oh, and I cut brainstorm for ponder. It makes more sense since you are normally just hunting for land drops with it. I'm still on the fence on that one. Also, I would definitely go back to the b-storm if hoofprints makes an appearance in the main or side. Also, added Thwart. Yep, that's right. I went there. It's another free hard counter that has no drawback in this deck.

I'm really kinda sad over losing stifle, though. I like playing the deck with a strong mana-denial aspect to it. Stifle and Wasteland powered by Exploration is a beating in the early game.

[Nihil Credo]

Uh... aren't you kinda left with a terrible pile if you don't draw and resolve Exploration? Heck, after adding Sea Drake I've even tested Sakura-Tribe Scout as a backup way to get all those lands back into play.

[FakeSpam]

Uh... aren't you kinda left with a terrible pile if you don't draw and resolve Exploration?

Uh.. Yeah.


Actually it's not that bad. the deck just clicks a whole lot more with an exploration in play.

[Cavius The Great]

Has anyone here considered Sea Drake? It seems that it would make the perfect replacement for Angels.

[insertnamehere]

Has anyone here considered Sea Drake? It seems that it would make the perfect replacement for Angels.

Look up Cavius.

[Slayer001]

Someone in my neighbourhood is playing almost thesame deck. He uses Seadrakes an scryb rangers, those rangers help alot, they have pro blue and flying and flash and you can just drop the land you remove again if you have explorations out. and it grows your kudzu big :) I'm no fan of the angels either in this deck. I would keep it blue-green and the wastelands should defenately be maindeck.

[Waikiki]

I have made a deck similar like this, so I think I should post it here:

/ Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [PT] Island (4)
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
1 [SOK] Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 [6E] Plains (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [B] Tundra

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Fathom Seer
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [RAV] Vinelasher Kudzu

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [US] Exploration
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [SH] Horn of Greed
3 [LRW] Ponder
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LRW] Hoofprints of the Stag

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 3 [SC] Stifle
SB: 3 [LE] Willbender
SB: 3 [4E] Winter

atm I am testing: -1 daze -1 exploration -1 horn of greed +3 tarmogoyf.