[Single Card Discussion] Goblin Welder

[Jak]

This card is said to be strong, but sadly in legacy, another goblin was ruining it for him. It has been in some discussion recently, so why not open up a thread for the little guy.

Anyways, I think he would be strong in some kind of Counter shell to protect him. With Counterbalance and top main. I really don't have much else to add, so discussion begin. Why is he underplayed and how can we abuse the powerful ability?

[freakish777]

Why is he underplayed and how can we abuse the powerful ability?

He's underplayed for the same reason Disciple of the Vault is legal in our format. Swords to Plowshares (and Lightning Bolt, and Chaining Lightning, and Innocent Blood, etc).

As far as abusing him, I believe Spatula of the Ages or Cavern Ninja (forget which) had a UGr Survival list a while ago that attempting to abuse him. Essentially you'd grab Squee, grab Anger, grab Sundering Titan, and then grab Welder (Quirion Ranger did dumb things like "untap my Welder, weld 3 times a turn, all your lands are gone). Of course it ran Thirst for Knowledge as well, but I'm unsure this is the most abusable. Giving Welder haste is certainly pretty powerful.

As far as Counterbalance Top, you'd obviously want Thirst for Knowledge, the question is what other discard outlets do you need to make Welder good, and what artifacts are you planning on running to weld out? Chrome Mox seems obvious, but you need more than just 4. If you run Seat of Synod/Great Furnace, you open yourself up to Wasteland...

[nastynate]

If you run Seat of Synod/Great Furnace, you open yourself up to Wasteland...

Of course if you also run crucible of worlds, wasteland isn't as much of an issue, and recurring artifact lands are pretty good with goblin welder. Some sort of Neo-TnT deck seems feasible.

[Zach Tartell]

Very much off the top of my head, here's a list:

// Lands
2 [UNH] Forest
2 [MR] Tree of Tales
3 [A] Tropical Island
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Savannah
3 [R] Taiga

// Creatures
4 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
1 [MR] Duplicant
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [AL] Shield Sphere
1 [JU] Anger
1 [AQ] Ornithopter
4 [UL] Goblin Welder
1 [JU] Genesis
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 [4E] Triskelion

// Spells
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Pyromancer
SB: 3 [SC] Stifle
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg

The main deck is 63 cards, so you'd have to cut at least two. I think counterbalance is an excellent addition to Gux survival. I'ma tool around with this some more.

[Jander78]

The main problem that has always surfaced when designing a deck around Goblin Welder is that he is usually a necessity to get the deck to work properly. Building a deck around him is good in theory, but getting a Welder into play and keeping it in play long enough to get rolling is another story in this format.

Survival decks inherintly can function due to the fact that it is usually already mana intensive and easier to hardcast a lot of the high casting cost artifacts. But in retrospect, Welder Survival it is just a worse version of any Survival deck available to date, due to the fact that it wants to get a 1/1 utility creature into play about the same time it can hard cast most of its targets.

The main thing to consider when deciding on running Welder is what you really want to use him for. Most of the time there are 2 main cards that you are really considering him for: Sundering Titan and Mindslaver. Both cards are high casting cost and both are great with recursion. The other thing to aim for when desining a Welder based deck is how to make it so it is not totally reliant on having a Welder in play.

[Illissius]

Welding an Arcbound Overseer into a Triskelion is also pretty insane.

[sammiel]

Actually I think UGr weldsur is probably the most playable option for welder, gives you draw, two discard outlets, countermagic, and tarmogoyf.

[emidln]

I board the little guy in Sun Tower. He's really good there, especially in incarnations that have Life from the Loam. The key is to not run him main, and when you board him in, he usually comes with Razorcore giving your opp 12 things they need to STP (Razorcore/Welder/Factories). Outside of that, I've had good luck playing him in a 2-of in a RG Survival list that only plays artifacts for lands, shield sphere, trike, and duplicant. Your normal kill is Survival backed up by disruption from Magus of the Moon and Wasteland, but you have a plan b of "comboing" with trikes and welders off anger.

[Jak]

I think a good shell would be

18 Lands
4 Goyfs
4 Goose
4 Welders
4 Force
4 Daze
3 CB
3 Top
4 Bstorm
4 Ponder
4 Intuition
4 Broken Artfifacts

Am I missing anything that should go in? Looks pretty strong.

[Bovinious]

You need artifacts to weld out, you know. Maybe you could run moxen and some artifact land.

[Jak]

Well, yeah. I would have artifact lands and stuff. Chrome mox would be some hotness to get CB out turn one.

[The Rack]

Is Mindslaver viable with Welder?? That used to be a prominent deck in our meta. I might throw a list together in a bit.

[thefreakaccident]

Andres on;y played welder survival for a little while, then he scrapped it, and then brought it back and won only a few times... his brand.dec was much better, seeing as it actually won the tourney consistantly.

[Iranon]

I suppose a halfway decent Survival could be built with Treefolk Harbingers, robots and Doran. Welder + something juicy could be thrown in as one-ofs for ridiculous plays while avoiding its usual downfall (most decks that truly abuse it suck if they don't draw it).

Of course, at that point we might have to ask ourselves why we aren't going all the way and running Kiki-Jiki + Sky Hussar.

[hi-val]

Control Slaver in Vintage was much more a Tinker deck than a Welder deck. Most of my victories with the deck would come from Mana Draining something, Mystical Tutoring for Tinker and then Slaving someone away. Welder was there to make sure more Slavings happened, but it wasn't a primary thing. I don't know that you can make a good Slaver deck in Legacy because Welder wasn't really the focus of the deck anyway, it was more of Tinker + Drain.

That said, something like Teen Titans that would use Welder as a way of bringing Titan in would be neat.

[Illissius]

There's also Show and Tell, Trash for Treasure, and Burning Wish to fetch them and other things. Do they suck?

[MattH]

Trash for Treasure is pretty bad, but Show and Tell can work.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Transmute Artifact and/or Animate Dead.

[kabal]

What about Belcher? Could this archetype benefit from running a few of these little guy? Seems like it could help against counter magic which is one of its weaker if not the weakest MU.

[from Cairo]

Aether Vial is some good in Welder Survival, as weld bait, and also functionally allows your welders in through counters.

[MattH]

Aether Vial is some good in Welder Survival, as weld bait, and also functionally allows your welders in through counters.

Also lets you keep playing creatures even if Titan blows up your own lands.

[Iranon]

@ kabal: Welder is so-so in Belcher. It helps against countermagic, but rarely against Pithing Needle and never against things like True Believer.

The only things that always help are speed and consistency, and Welder doesn't help either. While his inclusion is justifiable, I'd pass on him myself.

[Nihil Credo]

Belcher ran Welder about a million years ago as a MD backup plan against countermagic and artifact destruction; EtW is the new better backup plan. Welder could take a role in the sideboard against countermagic... but since people will bring in Plagues->Goblins against EtW, the little mechanic ends up being inferior to Pyroblast.