[Deck] Goyf Sligh

[enemyofarsenic]

is countryside crusher worth testing here? it's going to be the most expensive cc in the deck and will filter out lands and in turn pump it's own... possible dissynergy with fireblast though =[

I'm not trying to sound rude, but the moderative note just above your post should apply to you too. Please use capitalization in your posts.

-PR

[Wallace]

is countryside crusher worth testing here? it's going to be the most expensive cc in the deck and will filter out lands and in turn pump it's own... possible dissynergy with fireblast though =[


IDK how good Crusher will be here, testing is needed though. It won't hurt Fireblast at all because you need 3 land in play to cast the Crusher. If you are sacing lands to cast FB then the game, should, already be over.

[enemyofarsenic]

IDK how good Crusher will be here, testing is needed though. It won't hurt Fireblast at all because you need 3 land in play to cast the Crusher. If you are sacing lands to cast FB then the game, should, already be over.

And +2/+2 for countryside crusher as well hehe.

[kicks_422]

Ever since I got rid of 3cc spells from the deck, I never looked back. Mana maximization is key to the deck, and 3cc spells kind of clog up the smooth flow of pressure that the deck can apply, even if it's something as crazy as Crusher.

[Lemuria]

I understand the whole point about 3cc and I totally agree, however, isn't worth 4 slots in the SB for Magus of the Moon? it can win so many games....

[Wallace]

I understand the whole point about 3cc and I totally agree, however, isn't worth 4 slots in the SB for Magus of the Moon? it can win so many games....

I run Blood Moon, Magus is to easily delt with. Any burn spell or STP and he is gone, Blood Moon can be delt with to, just requires a little more mana.

[freakish777]

I run Blood Moon, Magus is to easily delt with. Any burn spell or STP and he is gone, Blood Moon can be delt with to, just requires a little more mana.

Not to mention if they have no basics/artifact sources, there are no red spells that "destroy target enchantment."

[Peter_Rotten]

Has anyone actually tested the Crusher yet? I'd hate to run a 3 cc spell in the main, but he may be good enough. I report back this weekend after a little play-testing but I'd love to see other opinions about him too.

[Wallace]

Has anyone actually tested the Crusher yet? I'd hate to run a 3 cc spell in the main, but he may be good enough. I report back this weekend after a little play-testing but I'd love to see other opinions about him too.

The Picture is Fucking Ugly, thats all I have to say on Crusher for now...:tongue:

[kicks_422]

I tried him the moment he was spoiled. It's crazy good, I'll give it that... It just doesn't feel right. I play my Fireblasts aggresively, so holding them back to reach 3 lands in play kind of slows me down. The land-skipping ability is more useful than it's big body, since it could have just as well been a Dryad if it were for the body. All the deck really needs is 1-2 lands off the top, so Magma Jet could have taken its place.

Pretty nice that those two cards have been rolled into one giant package (pun intended). I'll test it more. Maybe it would feel better in the morning. :tongue:

[enemyofarsenic]

Should we up the lands if countryside crusher would be played in this deck? Usual land count in this deck 18-19 lands.

[gosumog]

this is really consistant for me
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
8 [5E] Mountain (4)
1 [8E] Forest (1)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [R] Taiga
2 other fetch oops ^^

// Creatures
4 [FNM] Kird Ape
3 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
3 [PLC] Keldon Marauders
4 [10E] Quirion Dryad

// Spells
3 [OD] Reckless Charge
3 [VI] Fireblast
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
2 [JU] Lava Dart
1 [UL] Rancor

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [7E] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

[edgewalker]

You're aware heath doesn't can't fetch 8 of your lands right? I also don't like rancor or reckless charge since you can easily be 2 for 1'd by your opponent.

[kicks_422]

13 burn spells is too low for a Sligh deck, no matter what. You might want to check out the most recent lists in this thread, they would surely help you out.

[Wallace]

Here is the lish I threw together to test Crusher, I will let everone know how it works out.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Countryside Crusher
3 Keldon Marauders
3 Grim Lavamancer
18 Creatures

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
23 Burn Spells

4 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
1 Stomping Grounds
9 Mountain
19 Land

[Eldariel]

I can tell you that you'll have trouble casting it. 19 Lands + 3-drops = not a combo.

[Wallace]

I can tell you that you'll have trouble casting it. 19 Lands + 3-drops = not a combo.

Well I used to run Vortex with 18 land and have no problem with that. Same with my burn deck that runs 17 and MB Flamebreaks. But like the post said, I am testing the deck, If I notice a problem with casting the Crusher then I will try and find a solution.

[Eldariel]

If anything, I think you might want to consider Barbarian Rings over some of the burn, even if they only deal 2; that way your burn-count would remain unchanged (although you'd have ever-so-slightly lower reach; it'd be one that can kill through counters though), but you'd have a higher likelihood of being able to hit the critical turn 3 Crusher and to make it huge on turn 4. Your list is really hyperaggressive anyways (running Lava Spike) though, so I'm not sure how good a fit it is there in the first place as a 3-drop. It looks to me like Countryside Crusher would want a bit slower, more controllish approach to really shine as if it sticks, it makes your topdecking perfect while growing huge so it'd probably be a good 'last man standing'-type card.

Of course, feel free to test it still and report back with the results, but I think that while it may have a place in some builds of Goyf Sligh, that place isn't along with Lava Spike. Heck, I'm fairly sure that a Ball Lightning or Blistering Firecat would serve you better thanks to their Haste (this deck out of all in Magic has the means to kill those pesky Mogg Fanatics that would be in the way, and to be frank, you'd want them dead anyways).

[Peter_Rotten]

Here’s the current build that I used to T8 at Hadley:

18 land
4 Taiga
1 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
7 Mountain

16 Critters
4 Fanatics
4 Grim
4 Goyf
4 Keldon Marauder

26 Burn (listed in order of importance)
4 Bolts
4 Chains
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
1 Seal of Fire
3 Cursed Scroll

SB
3 Shattering Spree
3 Krosan Grip
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Price of Progress
4 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Pyroclasm (not needed all day although he has MVP a few tournies ago)


Cursed Scroll didn’t do much for me all day long. In just about every match, it would have been better served as Seal of Fire or even Pyrite Spellbomb. Price happened to be mediocre with most ppl trying to play around it or playing a basic land build.

Here’s a brief list of matches:


2-0 Against 4 color control deck similar to Landstill. Although he answers some of my critters with a Deed and EE, I burn his skull for the win.
0-2 aginst DreadStill. Wow this is a bad match. Game 1 he resolves a turn Nought with Stifle and I don’t have enough burn to finish the job. Game two, I Shattering Spree his Dreadnought. I also Grip his Counterbalance and things are looking pretty damn good for me until he drops a Chill which buys him plenty of time to beat me down with a Mishra’s Factory.
2-1 against Dragon Stompy. Game 1 is a disaster with Chally for 1 and 2 ruining my day. Game 2, my SB helps me push through the win. Game 3 is savage for me. I'm stuck under Trini and Chalice for 1. I have 3 lands (1 forest and 2 mountains) and finally top deck a Grip. He swings in with a hellbent Pit-Dragon which will probably win it for him. Stupid double-strike. I Grip the Trini and sac 2 mountains to Fireblast the Dragon. It's still looking damn grim for me but he fails to draw a threat for EVER. I enventually draw more land and a Shattering Spree. I kill the Chalice and poop out a Fanatic and 2 Grims but he top decks a Keg. Grumble. I get in 5 damage before he wipes my board; unfortunately, for him I have 3 bolts to finish the game.
2-0 against Black Disruption. This match is like an autowin for Goyf Sligh. I heart Thoughtseize. Plus, main Negators don’t help him any. For game two, he never has a critter live long enough to get his Jitte active.
2-0 against the mirror. Norm and I play the grudge match which usually is decided by who draws more Goyfs. I do in this game.
2-1 against Ichorid. I’m ready to draw in but Nate can’t since, for some reason, he drew early in the tourney. I’m worried about the match since I have NO experience playing against Ichorid. Game one he has some horrible dredges and I have a Fanatic on the board. He rips my hand apart with some amazing blind Therapies. It’s almost like a little angel told him what was in my hand. We both get confused about Fanatic and Bridge interaction and I’m stupid for not calling the judge over to confirm what I thought was right. Oh well, I was in a losing position anyway. With about 6 cards left in his library and both Trolls in his hand, I lose to fat hasty Zombies and Ichorids. Game 2 goes better for me since I lead with a Fanatic and double Crypt. PoP for 6 also helped. Game 3, he mulligans to 5, leads with Chally, and I think that I’m screwed. However, he set that Chally for 0, which allows me to Shattering Spree it and play my Crypt in hand and the one I just drew.
Semi-finals 0-2 against Extended Doran. This deck gains life via fat elephants. Life gaining fat elephants are not good for me. I never had much of a chance in this match.
Ultimately, I need to replace Scroll with some flexible burn. I don’t want to run Lava Spike because I like my burn flexible. I may simply revert to a 2/2 split of Seal and Pyrite Spellbomb. Keldon Maraudor is a house. That guy did me right for sure. He shocked the opponent and bolted him or removed a critter. I recommend to anyone not playing him to reevaluate his roll. He’s got a job to do, and it’s a big, big job. Roar!

[Wallace]

@ PR

Good to see this deck show up in another top 8, congrats on the finish. I too found out that scroll is better served as a burn spell. I used to run the 2/2 split of Spellbomb and Seal, I ended up replacing them with 4 Lava Spike. The seals were ok but the Spellbombs were just to expensive for what ya get. Congrats again...

[Peter_Rotten]

I was thinking, though, that the Spellbomb may serve as a decent way to slightly help find SB cards. There are a few matches that I really want to find Grip or Spree and maybe Spellbomb can facillitate that if I can cast it on turn 1.

[Mooglar]

Ok so i played goyf sligh after building it a week ago at my local big 1.5.
about 35 people showed up and the metagame is thresh, goblins, and landstill with 1 ichorid, 1 belcher, 1 U-Trix, 2 death and taxes (one g/w one mono w) a truffle shuffle, 1 MUC and some other jank

i placed 9th losing to a ichorid player by tiebreakers by .75% OMW a bit of a downer meh

This is the list i used

18 land
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
7 Mountain

16 dudes
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Grim lavamancer (only had 3)
3 Goyf (only had 3)
4 Keldon Marauder
1 Simian Spirit guide (replace my goyf yea! woo PS He saved me from daze once)

26 Burn
4 Lightining Bolt
4 Chain of lightning
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress
3 incinerate
2 Seal of Fire
2 pyrite spellbomb
3 Sulfuric Vortex

SB
2 Shattering Spree
2 Krosan Grip
2 Cursed Scroll
1 Price of Progress
3 Tormod’s Crypt
4 pyrostatic pillar


My memory sucks so ill do my best to explain matches...

Round 1 Vs Erayo Affinity

Game one he dropped a bunch of lands at the moment i thought he was playing raffinity since he didnt drop an erayo game one, i hit him with 1 chain 1 bolt 1 price of progress which hits him for 10 dmg, a couple of marauders sealed the game.

Game 2 i SBed 2 shattering sprees vs him and 1 price of progress
He mulls to 5 cards and i shatter his seat of the synod and play some burn at his head. He drops erayo then lotus petal
i respond by bolting erayo and he scoops

1-0

Round 2 vs 4c Baseruption

this was terrible on my parti get 1 land hands both games and decide to keep (stupidly) i lose very quickly

1-1

Round 3 vs 4c Landstill no wrath,humilty but runs deed, duress and packs stifles.

Game one i do my best trying to burn him and price him for 6 dmg which he was surprised by maindecking prices ><, he underestimates my marauders and they get him to a low of about 7 before he starts countering them, he dies to 2 pyrite spellbombs that i dropped turn 1 and 2.

Game 2 i SBed in cursed scrolls and 1 price of progress, i burn him out and price for 6 again which hits me for 4 dmg also, he counters all my spells with his hydroblasts i run out of cards and get him to 1 life with my mogg fanatic, he stabilizes with about 3 stifles in his hand and stifles my moggs and seal of fire and beats me down with his dudes, i try to burn him but he activates monastery and swords it.

Game 3 i get a really fast start with turn 1 cursed scroll turn 2 magma jet turn 3 vortex which resolves followed by goyfs which both get countered he deeds for 3, my turn i drop another vortex which resolves and he resumes to counter my spells but cant gain life with his 3 swords in his hand and loses.

2-1
Round 4 Vs Mono W Death and Taxes (my friend)

We draw in the hopes that one of us wins next round

2-1-1

Round 5 vs 4 c Landstill

He has no way to make it in so gives me the game meh><

i place 9th, go eat chipotle and win the draft afterwards
so meh, id play this deck again with a few revisions and hopefully try to do something about that matchups vs blue >.<

Top 8 was something like this

1st Ichorid
2nd Truffle Shuffle
3rd Landstill
4th Goblins
5th Landstill
6th Thresh
7th I think it was thresh
8th and this one i think was thresh also

[Peter_Rotten]

Ok so i played goyf sligh after building it a week ago at my local big 1.5.
about 35 people showed up

Where is this?

Also. Many lists don't run Sulfuric Vortex. How did that treat card you? Was the 3cc a pain in the neck?

[Mooglar]

Minneapolis, Minnesota

Monster Den
Monsterdengames.com

its like a monthly 1.5 that we have, prizes are awarded to top 4 and are usually

1 beta/alpha dual land to first
4 revised duals to second place// 2 tarmogoyfs
4 fow to 3rd
60$ store credit to 4th

if the turnout is high like one time we had about 55 people the first place was a beta volcanic island

I run vortex because evey single decks here runs swords and its annoying, it causes card disatvantage, i like static abilities of shocking every turn and it pumps up goyf if its countered which is moslikely the case.

If it drops and it resolves you win literaly if stays there for at least a fireblast youre already winning

[Wallace]

Bad Day with Goyf Sligh.

So I took Peter Rotten's advice as a matter of fact I just played his list minus the 3 Cursed Scrolls and 1 Seal of fire, I added 4 Lava Spike.

Round 1: 4 Color Landstill
I won this match easily, lots of burn to the face followed up by Goyf and Marauders swinging.

Round 2: TES

Not much to say here, its combo and I’m not playing blue. I lose game 1 on turn 2 or 3. Game 2 I mull to five and keep it blind, Taiga, Taiga, Taiga, Fetch, Chain Lightning, . Despite the shitty hand I do ok, I burn him down to 6, he hits storm count of 7 and drops 2 SSG's...I proceed to draw a bunch of land in a row, he kill's me with two Monkeys...not happy. Hard to win when I only drew 6 non-land permanents, after fetching 3 times...o well. There's a picture of this game floating around somewhere.

Round 3: Survival

I win game one easily, he had mana problem and I kept killing his birds. Game two he got a sick draw, Thoughtseized me turn one, turn two he cast cabal therapy and a bird to flash it back. Turn 3 was a repeat of turn two, double therapy, turn four he drops 2 Tarmogoyf!!! Just in case the game wasn't in hand already he cast another Therapy on turn 5. Game 3 went much better for me, I get a fast start and beat him down to burn range, he never drew a black source, I win.

Round 4: Counter/Top

I would just like to start this recap by saying, FUCK COUNTERBALANCE!!!! He plays a turn 2 counterbalance and I really can't do much, he wins. I side in the Krosan Grips and get one in my starting hand, no green source though; I keep anyway because it was a good hand. He proceeds to drop another turn two counterbalance, I rip 4 lands, non-green, and he also stalls out. I finally draw a fetch and blow up the balance; I win the game shortly after that. Game three was more of the same, he drop a turn to balance again, this time he followed it up with Top though, just incase you missed it, FUCK COUNTERBALANCE, it was still close I end up losing though.

Round 5: Thresh (Stifle/Wasteland)

I don't really remember much about this match, I know I won a game. He just played to much counter-magic for me to deal with. The first few turns of game one went something like this, Daze, Spell Snare, Spell Snare, Daze, Spell Snare, Counter Spell, Stifle... . It was a fun time even tough I lost, I mean it was against Frendly Phil Stolze...

Round 6: I drop...

Here's the List:

4 Taiga
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountain

4 Fanatics
4 Grim
4 Goyf
4 Keldon Marauder

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Magma Jet (Thats right PR I used jet)
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

3 Shattering Spree
4 Krosan Grip
1 Price of Progress
4 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Pyroclasm

Props:
Keldon Marauders for being Awesome.
High fives from team Copenhavers for picking on Bovi.
Keldon Marauders for being Awesome.
Eli for turning all my shit rares/foils into Taigas.

Slops:
Fucking Counterbalance.
Islands.
Mana flood.
Missing my exit on the way home.

[Sims]

Props:
Keldon Marauders for being Awesome.
High fives from team Copenhavers for picking on Bovi.
Keldon Marauders for being Awesome.
Eli for turning all my shit rares/foils into Taigas.

Slops:
Fucking Counterbalance.
Islands.
Mana flood.
Missing my exit on the way home.

I'm glad people are coming around to Marauders, as I find that card to be fuerte in this deck. My biggest question is, since you decided to play it, how did the Jets do for you. I've never really had a problem with the card but I know other people want the card to burn in the fiery depths from whence it came. Did the scry effect help you at all or did you find the card to be just another topdecked burn spell?

[Wallace]

I'm glad people are coming around to Marauders, as I find that card to be fuerte in this deck. My biggest question is, since you decided to play it, how did the Jets do for you. I've never really had a problem with the card but I know other people want the card to burn in the fiery depths from whence it came. Did the scry effect help you at all or did you find the card to be just another topdecked burn spell?


First off I would like to say that I have been playing Marauders since there release, I realized how good they were right from the begining.

The Jets were ok, the Scy helped once, I was fighting really bad mana flood all day, so I really didn't have a chance to test there usefulness. This event and the really bad luck I had with mana flood just made want to test Countryside Crusher more. I really think this deck will benifit from adding him.



...There's a picture of this game floating around somewhere...


Here is said picture, the circled cards are all the non-land cards I drew for the game, in order. The last lightning blot I cast was the turn before he dropped the Monkeys.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/Wally891/ssgbeats.jpg

[Mooglar]

Next time im playing this deck im gonna use only 4 fetches i gotta mana screwed so many times...

Also i wanna try isao he looks promising, regens kills geese battles early goyf, passes counterbalance regens some more survives catacalysm and blows out random aggro

[kicks_422]

Only 4 fetches? Isao? Seriously?

It's OK to try to innovate, but there are just some rules about a Sligh deck (especially with Goyf Sligh) that you just can't break. Running only 4 fetches and running bad creatures are two of them.

[Mooglar]

haha maybe ^_^, but the fetches thing zilla stompy rain 4 fetches and it did fine, i dont like the fact that i get mana screwed every game >_> id rather get mana flooded then screwed

yea isao is kinda a joke but he looks cool

[Peter_Rotten]

I wouldn't advise going under 6 fetches. Remember that old Zilla stompy might have run only 4 fetches, but it also ran Birds and Elvish Spirit Guide. We don't have those luxuries.

As of now, the only 3cc spell I'll run is Krosan Grip; however, I'll cat least consider the Crusher.

[Mooglar]

oh god countryside crusher is amazing

i tested a deck of 4 crusher 4 assault 4 magus of the moon 4 ssg 4 mox diamond and the rest mountains and crushed landstill 3-0 it was amazing

on the other note i never used birds in my zilla stompy list, but ill try the 4 fetches thing and tell you how it goes,

Cb is annyoing and its hard to find anything to beat aside from grip, im thinking of switching to the german list because of magus of the moon + i like rammstein

>_>

[kicks_422]

oh god countryside crusher is amazing

i tested a deck of 4 crusher 4 assault 4 magus of the moon 4 ssg 4 mox diamond and the rest mountains and crushed landstill 3-0 it was amazing


Isn't that a different deck altogether? I'm still not sold on Crusher in aggro, but we'll see.

See, 4 fetches, along with I assume 4 Taigas, only equal to 8 sources of green. MAYBE 1 Forest, upping it to 9. That's too low for a deck whose best source of card selection is Magma Jet. And too many forests is just plain bad.

[Mooglar]

oh yea for sure id add 1 forest and the rest would be mountains im just not sold on having so many fetches with such a low land count i mean solidarity runs more lands than us and it wants to see as little as possible ><

yea different deck but im just saying how good he is ;P

Proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization are absolute requirements on these boards. Please use them in the future or your posting priveledges will be revoked. - Zilla

[kicks_422]

We do so because it's crticial to hit that green mana early on to maximize the pressure applied by Goyf as well as Kird Ape/Quirion Dryad if you're running them.

Actually, Solidarity wants to see as many lands as possible. I'm right, right?

[Mooglar]

it wants to see 4 lands >_> and no more sometimes 3 besides it has like so many filters impulse, peer through depths

Proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization are absolute requirements on these boards. Please use them in the future or your posting priveledges will be revoked. - Zilla

[Sims]

See, 4 fetches, along with I assume 4 Taigas, only equal to 8 sources of green. MAYBE 1 Forest, upping it to 9. That's too low for a deck whose best source of card selection is Magma Jet. And too many forests is just plain bad.

Personally I wouldn't even see it as that many. Typically I'd consider a fetchland as 1/2 a mana source when it comes to counting up what you have available, since you deplete your deck of green mana by fetching them out. That configuration, including the forest, would be more like 7 green sources, which is definitely not enough if you'd wish to reliably cast Goyf, Kird (i run it), dryad (if anyone still runs her), and any sideboard cards you have in the nature of Krosan Grip.

[Wallace]

I also agree the 6-8 Fetch's is the right number, I have been running 6. The one of forest isn't really needed unless you really worry about wasteland.

Countryside Crusher is really good, I've been testing it as a 3 of, 4 seemed like to many. Droping him turn 3 or 4 was just sick, I upped the land count to 19 to support the :1::r::r: cc of the crusher.

I have also been testing Hull Breach in the board, it seems to be ok, Grip is still a lot better...

[Mooglar]

Good idea Sacearuse ill def test the upped land count i just got 4 crushers on ebay for 41$ so theyre definently going in considering the deck functions on just 3 and doesnt really need any more, expect to gain upwards of 7 life from swords >_>

Proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization are absolute requirements on these boards. Please use them in the future or your posting priveledges will be revoked. - Zilla

[Volt]

.

[Jak]

Is it better than Dryad?

[Mooglar]

I think so, considering he starts as a 3/3 for 3 rather how dryad starts a 1/1 for 2. With the upped land count it's not that hard to make it to 3 lands =)

[kicks_422]

That one mana difference might mean everything, you know. And considering that the deck is mana-light, Crusher might not get pumped up as big as Dryad could be. The whole "milling away lands into business spells while pumping up the Giant" thing is kind of cool though.

[Mooglar]

Yea i'm not really caring about his ability to get bigger much, but the part part where i dont draw any lands other than the 3 i have is the part i love about him. The 3/3 body is a nice bonus though

[Volt]

.

[Wallace]

After doing a little testing with crusher as a 3 of in Goyf Sligh I have figured out some cool things he adds to the deck. The first benefit is obvious; he mills away useless land and helps you draw into useful cards. He is another "big" creature for you opponent to deal with, now they have to choose between a 5/6 goyf or a crusher that, on avg., is a 6/6. He costs :1::r::r:, which is yet another spell that most decks packing Counterbalance can't handle. The last thing he does is feed Lavamancer, droping those extra lands to the yard makes Grimy happy...I really like the addition of crusher to the dack and think he will see a ton of play here, once people figure out how many diffrent benefits he offers...

[Jak]

I really have taken an interest in this deck. It has good MUs against some high played decks. It can also take care of DS with the artfiact removal. The only thing I hated was that it lost to combo. So the black splash looked good. Not sure about the numbers in the SB, but I know there needs to be 4 Therapies, 2-4 Seizes, and 2-3 Extirpates. Anyway, here is a list.

4 Taiga
3 Badlands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain

4 Fanatics
4 Grim
4 Goyf
4 Keldon Marauder
3 Countryside Crusher

4 Bolts
4 Chains
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

SB
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
3 Shattering Spree
3 Krosan Grip

Thoughts?

[Wallace]

I really have taken an interest in this deck. It has good MUs against some high played decks. It can also take care of DS with the artfiact removal. The only thing I hated was that it lost to combo. So the black splash looked good. Not sure about the numbers in the SB, but I know there needs to be 4 Therapies, 2-4 Seizes, and 2-3 Extirpates. Anyway, here is a list.

Thoughts?

Here is the list I top 8ed at TMLOIII with, I ran the black splash and it seemed to work well in that meta. I didn't run into any combo decks so I really can't give you a MU decription.


So I made top 8 on day 2 of TMLO with the following list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
3 Tarfire
3 Fireblast
2 Seal of Fire
2 Pyrite Spellbomb

4 Taiga
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

SB:
4 Duress
4 Price of Progress
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Krosan Grip
2 Seal of Primordium

I lost a close Thresh match up and to Goblins in the top 8. Fireblast or POP off the top and I win the top 8 match. I beat Enchantress, Elves, Thresh w/scepter, Landstill and drew with Tarmo Sligh to make top 8.

The deck played wery well and both matches I lost were close, any burn spell off the top and I win game two against the Thresh player. I am going to drop Quirion Dryad from my build. Was not impressed with it at all, always wanted it to be something else.

[zander1]

I top8ed with Goyf Sligh on sunday. I played the black splash and it worked really well for me.

So here's the list:

MB:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Stomping Grounds (should have been a Taiga)
1 Blood Crypt (should have been a Badland)
1 Overgrown Tomb (see above^^)
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Mountain

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confindant
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Magma Jet
2 Tarfire
2 Seal of Fire
2 Mishra's Bauble

Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Price of Progress
4 Magus of the Moon


I never have had any problems with the Confidants or the Dryads. They let me draw a lot of cards and became really big, so that I never wished that they were anything else. I don't understand why people didn't run them recently.
After the Tournament I can say that my Sideboard should have been a little bit different. The Magus of the Moon should have been Blood Moons, since he was shot a few times. And I was also too afraid of TES, because nobody played it and the Pillars were totally useless. Pyroclasms would have fit in the SB better. The Grips and the Magus won me the game a few times.
So after all I'm really glad finishing the tournament as the 3rd and winning a foil cunning wish.

[kicks_422]

I'm becoming more intrigued with RGB, but not because of Confidant and his sexiness with Dryad. It's the ability to now run 8 pinpoint discard in the SB to shore up combo (which, let's face it, is the only problem for this deck). My SB would look like this:

4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Grip
3 Crypt

I'll get around to testing it. If I like it, it would probably propel me back to solely playing Legacy and this deck, which started it all for me in the first place.

Jak: Don't run Rift Bolts. You want your burn to hit hard and hit right away.

[moOnsteak]

Does Greater Gargadon have a place in this type deck?
With Countryside Crusher it'll be powerful, imagine you have 2 very huge creatures to beat and it has a good synergy with Grim Lavamancer too. .

[Volt]

.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So Volt, you dont play t2 very often.
I like the idea of Greater Gargadon maby 2 but in wich slot?

[Wallace]

I didn't remember what Greater Gargadon did, so I had to look it up. The sheer horribleness of that card made my eyeballs implode. Also, I died a little inside. Thanks a lot.


So Volt, you dont play t2 very often.
I like the idea of Greater Gargadon maby 2 but in wich slot?

I do play a lot of type 2 and agree this guy sucks in Legacy. When do you plan on getting him into play, with Goyf Sligh the game shouln't last more than 8 turns...You really don't have much to sac to him and you don't play Mogg War Marshal to make him broken...So to answer your question, Greater Gargadon is terrible in Legacy.

[Mooglar]

The deck shoudn't run more than 20 creatures, then it can be pure sligh -> 20 Lands 20 Creatures 20 Spells

[alebronwebb]

Well, I'm just getting started playing Goyf-Sligh and would appreciate any advice for my list. It probably is janky, but here it is.

lands 19
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
3 Badlands
4 Mountain

creatures 19
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Keldon Marauder
3 Countryside Crusher

other 22
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Magma Jet
3 Tarfire
3 Fireblast

SB
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
4 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt

The most debatable slot, to me atleast, is Tarfire. It's mainly in for Goyf, but it doesn't have the best damage output (anybody have any opinions about it?). So far Crusher has been amazing for me, feeding Grim for those last few points of damage.

[kicks_422]

Seal of Fire over Tarfire? That's the only change I can recommend right off the bat. Maybe up Badlands count to 4 as well, since you'll be needing those black sources right away in MU's where you board the discard in (I'm assuming combo, mainly).

[alebronwebb]

I was leaning towards Seal, just wanted to make sure what other people thought. As for the Badlands, dropping 1 fetch for 1 Badlands seems good. The SB is mainly for combo, the bane of this deck, it actually gives the deck a chance.

Thanks for the response.

[moOnsteak]

I didn't remember what Greater Gargadon did, so I had to look it up. The sheer horribleness of that card made my eyeballs implode. Also, I died a little inside. Thanks a lot.

I don't know what Countryside Crusher doing in this deck, 1:r::r: for 3/3 and make sure you won't draw a land seems junkie for me. .But if somebody force to put him inside (like I see in some lists), Greater Gargadon will be a great companion. .That 9/7 can make Crusher will be around 6/6 or 7/7 in my testing and 3-4 turns earlier drop for itself. .Also if you bring Grim Lavamancer, sacrificed lands can be his bullets. .
Of course you must cut Fireblast instead since this burn has bad synergies with Gargadon. .

[kicks_422]

WTH?

1. You don't want to draw a land most of the time. Have you played the deck at all?

2. How is Gargadon a great companion to Crusher?

3. Lavamancer has enough food in the deck without Gargadons.

4. I would never cut Fireblasts. If I did, I would take out a lot of cards as well and play UGR Thresh instead.

[moOnsteak]

WTH?

1. You don't want to draw a land most of the time. Have you played the deck at all?

2. How is Gargadon a great companion to Crusher?

3. Lavamancer has enough food in the deck without Gargadons.

4. I would never cut Fireblasts. If I did, I would take out a lot of cards as well and play UGR Thresh instead.

1.Yes all sligh players don't want to draw more land, but pay 1:r::r: for make it happen is not as good as it looks like. .if you want to minimize draw a land, I think run 17-18 land with 8 fetch is enough. .and I did play this deck, so I want to make you sure that I don't waste my time posting here. .
I played with 4 Bauble and 4 Street Wraith and I find there's rare to find until more than the 4th land. .
I run 2-3 Crusher in my testing and not getting impressed with him. .
He's more incredible with different deck where Loam and Devastating Dreams is able. .

2.Sacrifice a land will make Crusher bigger, as simple as that. .

3.Agree, it's just additional advantage if you run Gargadon. .

4.That's why I said if this deck need Crusher, because in my personal opinion, this deck is better without any > 2 cc. .Fireblast is one of the best finisher so I don't want to cut it unless it necessary. .

[Watcher487]

1.Yes all sligh players don't want to draw more land, but pay 1:r::r: for make it happen is not as good as it looks like. .if you want to minimize draw a land, I think run 17-18 land with 8 fetch is enough. .and I did play this deck, so I want to make you sure that I don't waste my time posting here. .
I played with 4 Bauble and 4 Street Wraith and I find there's rare to find until more than the 4th land. .
I run 2-3 Crusher in my testing and not getting impressed with him. .
He's more incredible with different deck where Loam and Devastating Dreams is able. .

2.Sacrifice a land will make Crusher bigger, as simple as that. .

3.Agree, it's just additional advantage if you run Gargadon. .

4.That's why I said if this deck need Crusher, because in my personal opinion, this deck is better without any > 2 cc. .Fireblast is one of the best finisher so I don't want to cut it unless it necessary. .

GUYS STOP. Moonsteak post your list. I want to see why you like it that much better. (Please test it at least a little bit before posting though.) Problems that I'm currently noting right now is that running deck thinners like Street Wraith, 4x Bauble and 8x Fetches in the same deck means your going to have to cut something vital (Burn) and leaves you more vunerable to combo.

The deck should be killing about turn 4-5 a la Burn. The reason for having Crusher is that you only get more gas/pressure to add to the late game.

Gargadon is only going to get dropped sometime after turn 5 and that's even with the deck putting more into it that it should. So, in turn, Moonsteak your slowing down the deck to play something that will Armegeddon yourself. (This is a very bad thing that I will talk about in a second).

Gargadon and Crusher is not at all good together. If you sacrifice a land to Gargadon while Crusher is in play, you will not be able to get that mana back. So if you have 0 land in play and Crusher in play, your not going to be putting on any real pressure against anything even if you were swinging with both Gargadon and Crusher. Both are chumpable (since neither has trample) and allows your opponent not to worry about anything else you might actually have since you won't be able to play another land. The deck is extremely mana hungry and saccing lands for effects that might not happen is a bad thing. Your going to have alot of things in the yard regardless of how fast or slow your going in the first place so putting stuff in there from Gargadon can be overkill.

[scrumdogg]

Several questions/concerns...but not about Countryside Crusher. Anyone who has actually tested with the deck would not create a superfluous argument about the card. One concern is a lack of basics in many of the lists posted. Maybe it is because I play in an area with a significant Dragon Stompy presence, but losing access to some of your best creatures (and your only sideboard way to deal with Blood Moon) seems both bad & scary. On that note, having as many fetches as possible also seems to be correct (I'll admit, since my home computer gave me the blue screen of death 2 weeks ago, my testing has been seriously curtailed...). The other concern has to do with the RGb version & the sideboard - specifically why Duress instead of Cabal Therapy? Shouldn't you know, more or less, what you should be fearing since you are in Game 2 or 3? The ability to strip multiples also comes to mind as a bonus, but having creatures to sac in order to flashback is the real kicker, especially in any build running Keldon Marauders. Turn 1 Therapy or Thoughtseize, Turn 2 Marauders/Lavamancer/Bob, Turn 3 swing/get some sort of benefit + rip their hand apart (if you didn't need to do so Turn 2). What better use for a Marauder which will be dying anyway?

[noobslayer]

Gargadon has no place in this deck. Stop kidding yourself into thinking that it does. I'd rather run Terravore alongside Countryside Crusher than Gargadon. And in that case, you might as well run Wasteland too just to squeeze out any extra points of damage you can muster.

EDIT: I'm also probably the only person who ever played Sligh that still thinks Burning-Tree Shaman isn't too bad in this deck.

[Mooglar]

Burning tree shaman is rly good, in zilla stompy its even better but i don't wanna take 2 damage every time i fetch a land... also about the not enough basics vs dragon stompy, im confused? Why would we need more basics when more than half our deck is red... So what if they turn our fetches into mountains >_>

GG Sounds like a terrible idea, aside from having a sac outlet via Grim Lavamancer and marauders, i don't see that "thing" getting out any time soon, also aside from that he costs 10 mana to hardcast, i don't think i've ever had that many lands even late game and late game i don't want to suspend something that i won't see until 5 turns have passed...

Also StP shows us that there's no point in playing anything above 4 mana...

[noobslayer]

Countryside Crusher definitely has a place in this deck. As it stnad this deck mostly folds to Chalice. Crusher has a reasonable cmc, and is very synergetic with this deck. Between Fetches, Fireblast, and Barbarian Ring, he can outclass Tarmogoyf in a matter of moments.

[Wallace]

Countryside Crusher definitely has a place in this deck. As it stnad this deck mostly folds to Chalice. Crusher has a reasonable cmc, and is very synergetic with this deck. Between Fetches, Fireblast, and Barbarian Ring, he can outclass Tarmogoyf in a matter of moments.

I agree that Crusher is really good, but out class the mighty Tarmogoyf? I think Tarmogoyf is the reason that Crusher is good...Hear me out... Now your opponent has to worry about the turn 2 Goyf and the Turn 3 Crusher... Pair these two with the crazy burn Legacy has to offer and you have yourself one scary deck...now if we could just deal with that fucking counterbalance!!!!

[noobslayer]

I'm not saying he's better than Tarmogoyf. God no! I'm saying with all the possible effects to feed him, he can grow quickly and trounce Tarmogoyf in combat.

[scrumdogg]

Burning tree shaman is rly good, in zilla stompy its even better but i don't wanna take 2 damage every time i fetch a land... also about the not enough basics vs dragon stompy, im confused? Why would we need more basics when more than half our deck is red... So what if they turn our fetches into mountains >_>

GG Sounds like a terrible idea, aside from having a sac outlet via Grim Lavamancer and marauders, i don't see that "thing" getting out any time soon, also aside from that he costs 10 mana to hardcast, i don't think i've ever had that many lands even late game and late game i don't want to suspend something that i won't see until 5 turns have passed...

Also StP shows us that there's no point in playing anything above 4 mana...

Burning Tree Shaman is fine, I run him in my version & even symmetrical damage is fine as we are a damage-cranking machine (plus he is outside common G1 CB range & is a 3/4 for GR1, which is a bargain).

Look at a lot of the lists above & count the basic lands...especially forests & swamps. Turn 1 Blood Moon means you draw dead way too long. Hell, one of the local guys runs Pillage in the SB, specifically to cut people off a color if they can fetch before Moon comes down. In a meta without Dragon Stompy or Back to Basics, go nuts on the non-basics, but you are fooling yourself if you think the path to success against those cards is all or almost all non-basics.

[Wallace]

Burning Tree Shaman is fine, I run him in my version & even symmetrical damage is fine as we are a damage-cranking machine (plus he is outside common G1 CB range & is a 3/4 for GR1, which is a bargain).

Look at a lot of the lists above & count the basic lands...especially forests & swamps. Turn 1 Blood Moon means you draw dead way too long. Hell, one of the local guys runs Pillage in the SB, specifically to cut people off a color if they can fetch before Moon comes down. In a meta without Dragon Stompy or Back to Basics, go nuts on the non-basics, but you are fooling yourself if you think the path to success against those cards is all or almost all non-basics.

So you don't run Price of Progress huh?

[Media314r8]

Greater Gargadon does not have great synergy with winning games, as opponents often run 'counterspells' in this format, and saccing your board to this guy with never-draw-a-land-again crusher does not seem like tech. Win more card ~sometimes~ wins more, more frequently, he just bites a force of will, as it's not too hard to see him coming.

[Pienterekaak]

Hi all, first post here,
you all made me very excited to play goyf sligh,
I played it in our friday night magic, 16 player tournament and i became second. (also couse i gave someone a free point)
played against:
fish (1-1 gave him a draw with 5mins left)
black thres (2-0)
solidarity (2-0, outraced him)
rafinity (2-0)

I ran a very suboptimal list though since i didnt have all the cards. One of those cards i had to include was Burning-tree shaman.
I must say, i was very pleased about this card, im thinking of running 2 crusher/3 shaman.
Why is shaman so good:
Top, 1 damage
Equip jitte/cranial, 1 damage
Use counter from jitte, 1 damage
Fetch/waste, 1 damage
nantuko shade ability, 1 damage
Ravager sac, 1 damage

And its a 3/4 for 3cc

I know the damage isnt alot, but it adds up.
and in a few games i played the damage did make a difference. I also dont play lavamancers, are they really that good in this deck? since it cant beat hard on its own and you need mana and cards in graveyard to activate it.

[noobslayer]

Lavamancer is one of those cards that's an auto-4-of in sligh decks for me. Regardless of the other cards in a list, Lavamancer has always pulled its weight. Don't look at the disynergy between Lavamancer and BTS/Goyf. All three are relevant threats, and will do serious damage if any of them go unchecked. Glad to see someone has seen some success with BTS though, congrats.

[Wallace]

Lavamancer is one of those cards that's an auto-4-of in sligh decks for me. Regardless of the other cards in a list, Lavamancer has always pulled its weight. Don't look at the disynergy between Lavamancer and BTS/Goyf. All three are relevant threats, and will do serious damage if any of them go unchecked. Glad to see someone has seen some success with BTS though, congrats.

Agreed. Grim Lavamancer is sick, he wins games by himself. Being able to turn all of your dead creatures and spent burn spells in to 2 damge is sick...

[Pienterekaak]

yeah, thats true
but its also a 1/1 which has a activated ability (peedle) and needs to tap in order to work.
I never played with it before, but a friend of mine ran a RDW for a long time.. and he wasnt that excited about it..

What is your opinion about rift bolt vs lava spike?
rift bolt can target creatures and it dodges countertop, but it might take a turn before its active.
but lavaspike could be a better topdeck since it instantly kills.

[Wallace]

yeah, thats true
but its also a 1/1 which has a activated ability (peedle) and needs to tap in order to work.
I never played with it before, but a friend of mine ran a RDW for a long time.. and he wasnt that excited about it..

What is your opinion about rift bolt vs lava spike?
rift bolt can target creatures and it dodges countertop, but it might take a turn before its active.
but lavaspike could be a better topdeck since it instantly kills.

I run them both, Rift Bolt is clearly a better spell though...

yeah, thats true
but its also a 1/1 which has a activated ability (peedle) and needs to tap in order to work.
What does the have to do with anything, it's an activated abality, so what? Lavamancer is needed in this deck, he is a steady source of damage that either has to be dealt with or it can go the distance...just give it a try, you'll like it...

[kirdape3]

You know where Gargadon would be absurd? In the near mirrors if they exist in your metagame. If they're there, sideboard 3 and see how much fun life is for your opponent.

It turns into a Berserk Murlodont, coming for your nuts. Because really, that's what's required - a creature that will come for your nuts.

[DragoFireheart]

Doesn't Lavamancer conflict with Goyf?

I like the fire mage: anyone that runs a aggro deck like RDW or what have you should run him for sure. He's a great way to get rid of annoying threats [Bob, Lackey, etc].

[from Cairo]

Doesn't Lavamancer conflict with Goyf?

It more often than not it allows you to control Goyf, which is huge.

Lands and Instants usually are abundant in the GY you can almost always pull doubles if you chose to. The deck has a lot of burn and with fetches, you usually are able to activate Lavamancer w/o harming your Goyfs power.

But it also means you can reduce opponents Goyfs; if Goyfs are 4/5s cause of you having a Sorcery in the yard, and you're opponent swings in with two you can use Lavamancer to remove the Sorcery, bringing them down to 3/4s where a Fanatic or something could trade with one (with the 2 damage from Lavamancer, 1 from Fanatic block and 1 from the Fanatic ping)... In this sense Lavamancer is really powerful in matches where your opponent has Goyfs.

[jwk]

Wow, I finally read the whole post history, it is long.
Anyway Just my 2 cents on the deck.

These seem to be the 'issues' with this deck.

Mostly right number\combinations of creatures vs burn vs land.
1) shoud Quirion Dryad be in the deck?
I hope so bc I just got 3 copies. As a green creature also helps vs Sliver Knight

2) PoP vs splashing black for better sideboard combo matchup (just a stuip questoin but is MU short for matchup)?
PoP appears from reports to be a very valuable burn spell (4-8 for 1R is usually good), sometimes. However splashing black gives stronger options in the sideboard.

3) Is Contryside Crusher something to go in the deck, possible a 2, 3, or 4 of. Definately ensures nonland drawas later in the game. However can 1RR be supported

4) How do improve vs Counterbalance/Top in game one without Grip.
5) how to improve versus Combo in general?
6) How to deal better with Sliver Knight / Jitte in game one

As I see it the core of the deck is

6-8 Fetch Lands
4 Taiga
6-8 M
0-4 Forests/Bandlands/other lands

4 Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
3-4 Grim Lavamancer
4-8 more creatures

4 L Bolt
4 Chain L
3-4 F Blast
14+ other spells (burn)

From here is the basis, at least to me; the deck seems to vary greatly depending on the different options from there.

Just my opinion, it is that C. Crusher should find its home in some version of this deck. At least in the sideboard, It would seem to very good card versus many decks. It gets around most counterblance locks and is big to start with.

I will try testing this out for when I start playing again

[Sims]

I gotta be honest. In my testing I have found Crusher to be vastly underwhelming in this deck. I mean, there are very certain games or situations where Crusher, coming down later in the game with the ability to set him up with Magma Jet or just getting rather lucky, that he became so huge that he was unstoppable. Problem was, in those situations, I was already in a winning situation and it wouldn't have mattered if he was more burn, a goyf, a keldon marauder, or even a kird ape. I don't deny he is a powerful card, but I don't really think that he's really at home in this deck in comparison to a deck that can truly abuse him such as an Aggro Loam varient. For reference, the list I have been playing:

7 Fetches
4 Taiga
1 Forest
6 Mountain

3 Meta (Currently, as maligned as they are, Kird Ape)
3 Lavamancer
4 Fanatic
4 Goyf
4 Keldon marauder

4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Seal of Fire
3 Price of Progress
3 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast



Meta slot fluctuates. At times it's a Kird Ape simply for a cheap efficient beater, and others it's a 19th land and some Aritfact removal or some of the less fun burn (Rift Bolt/Lava Spike,) but it's something that can be almost anything. This is just the build I feel most comfortable playing as far as the numbers go, and Crusher felt very weak without more lands and a way of getting fetches back to reuse and abuse his ability.

[tyrcho]

After several tests and dismissing the black splash (confidant MD, thoughtseize SB) because of its frailty, this is the list I am playing; I like it for its regularity (I usually kill turn 4 in goldfish) :

20 lands :
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
4 taiga
1 forest
7 mountain

20 creatures
4 kird ape
4 fanatic
4 lavamancer
4 tarmogoyf
4 keldon marauders

20 burn
4 fireblast
4 bolt
4 chain ligthning
4 rift bolt
4 magma jet

I would like your opinion mainly on the side.

I need mostly to deal with problematic enchantments / artifacts such as Jitte, Counterbalance, Chalice, Trinisphere, Cop:Red, worship so 4 Krosan Grip are needed.
I really like Price of progress against all these 3+ color decks so I play 4.
If I expect some dredge decks I'll play 3-4 tormod's crypt.
I have 3-7 slots open now.
My meta has almost no combo so I accept the match loss on most games, anyways we have few tools to fight efficiently.

I have thought about :
- pyroblast : can counter counterbalance if R was open, which is possible after turn 2 with the amount of instants played.
- shattering spree : since most my trouble comes from artifacts
- tin-street hooligan : same but is countered by chalice@2
- engineered explosives : can deal with chalice, jitte, CB and occasionnaly Etw goblin tokens. Is it too slow/situational ?
- choke (untested) but it seems to slow to really matter against thresh/landstill
- seal of primordium/naturalize : additional krosan grip but dies to CB/chalice

So for the moment my side is
4 krosan grip
4 Price of progress
3 tormod
2 shattering spree
2 pyroblast

What do you think ? What are your worst matchups with this deck (except the obvious combo) ? How do you fight them ?

[Wallace]

After several tests and dismissing the black splash (confidant MD, thoughtseize SB) because of its frailty, this is the list I am playing; I like it for its regularity (I usually kill turn 4 in goldfish) :

20 lands :
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
4 taiga
1 forest
7 mountain

20 creatures
4 Kird ape
4 fanatic
4 Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Keldon marauders

20 burn
4 fireblast
4 bolt
4 chain lightning
4 rift bolt
4 magma jet

I would like your opinion mainly on the side.

I need mostly to deal with problematic enchantments / artifacts such as Jitte, Counterbalance, Chalice, Trinisphere, Cop:Red, worship so 4 Krosan Grip are needed.
I really like Price of progress against all these 3+ color decks so I play 4.
If I expect some dredge decks I'll play 3-4 tormod's crypt.
I have 3-7 slots open now.
My meta has almost no combo so I accept the match loss on most games, anyways we have few tools to fight efficiently.

I have thought about :
- pyroblast : can counter counterbalance if R was open, which is possible after turn 2 with the amount of instants played.
- shattering spree : since most my trouble comes from artifacts
- tin-street hooligan : same but is countered by chalice@2
- engineered explosives : can deal with chalice, jitte, CB and occasionnaly Etw goblin tokens. Is it too slow/situational ?
- choke (untested) but it seems to slow to really matter against thresh/landstill
- seal of primordium/naturalize : additional krosan grip but dies to CB/chalice

So for the moment my side is
4 krosan grip
4 Price of progress
3 tormod
2 shattering spree
2 pyroblast

What do you think ? What are your worst matchups with this deck (except the obvious combo) ? How do you fight them ?

Wow, that is really close to what I have been running. I run 3 main deck Price of progress, 3 Fireblast and Only 3 Magma Jets, I don't run Kird Ape. Instead I run either Lava Spike or Shard Volley. My board looks like this:

4 Krosan Grip
3 Shattering Spree
3 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Price of Progress
4 Blood Moon

The Spree's are a good answer to Chalice and will help against Affinity and any Stompy Deck. Krosan Grip is the best answer to Counterbalance and Vortex keeps life gain in check. Vortex, if resolved, can put your opponent on a nice clock, they will have to deal with it or lose. Blood Moon is, well it's Blood Moon, a lot of decks have trouble dealing with it and it's harder to float mana against to destroy it. Hope this helps...

[tyrcho]

I completely forgot about sulfuric vortex, it is a great answer to jitte and also to control decks.
I'll try with this side and keep you informed of the results
4 Pop
4 Grip
3 spree
4 vortex

(I completely give up the combo MU, even Ichorid is not very present in my meta).

[Wallace]

I completely forgot about sulfuric vortex, it is a great answer to jitte and also to control decks.
I'll try with this side and keep you informed of the results
4 Pop
4 Grip
3 spree
4 vortex

(I completely give up the combo MU, even Ichorid is not very present in my meta).

Yeah combo is a bitch, Pyrostatic Pillar helps but you really need things to go your way to win this match. Pyroclasm can help against ETW based combo's, other than that you just have to prey they get a slow draw...right...:cry:

[zander1]

Hmmmmmm....
I just can't stop thinking of crusher in this deck. So after the Grand Prix in vienna and watching my goyf sligh loosing in a legacy side-event because it was forced to mulligan because of a one-land hand or just because it was mana flooded I thought about crusher in the deck to help the mana fixing.
Anyway, here's the list:

Lands(22):
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Mountains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures(23):
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Grim Lavamancer

Spells(15):
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Dart (GREAT synergie with dryad and crusher)
3 Fireblast

With 4 crushers and 4 confidants the main idea is to have a crusher or a confidant in the game because he was forced to deal with the dryads, tarmogoyfs, etc...

Any thoughts???

[Volt]

.

[kicks_422]

The burn count is dangerously low though. That might pose a problem.

[magicmoron]

Hello to all. This is one of my first post here on mtg in a few years. I have been playing some form of r/g beats for around 10 years. A few of the styles I have played are 3-duece, garv, zilla stompy, sligh, and straight r/g beats. I came back to r/g beats when they printed our favorite green man. I was wondering, since sacerause has had quite a bit of success and I did see him running reckless charge, if anyone had considered running berserks. A lot of people have been worried if keldon marauders will do his "job" is legacy as he does in t2. Berserk may help this hickup. The reason why I have chosen berserk over reckless charge or rancor is its ability to race combo. A double berserk or even a single berserk on a KM can cause significantly more damage than either of the mentioned spells. Meaning instead of wasting the burn spell to kill off the blocker of KM, you can use it to go to the dome and get another 2 or 3 points of damage off the berserk. In addition, with berserk KM will die a turn sooner for less of a drawn out shock. With berserk tarmogoyf can hit without being chump blocked also, which I have found to be the case with goblins. They can simply pump out more creatures than you can so goyf almost never gets to pound to the face. Also, on the rare occasion berserk can exponentiate the power of the creatures when played in multiples. Not something to rely on but nonetheless is a possibility. Obviously, you have to run the version in which you use 20+creatures. But, 18 burn spells seem to be plenty when you can give a creature a huge boon with berserk.

My list:

4 x kird ape
4 x tarmogoyf
4 x dryad
4 x grim lavamancer
4 x keldon maruader

4 x lightning bolt
4 x chain lighting
4 x berserk
3 x fireblast
3 x price of progress
4 x magma jet (I run this only to increase the chances of getting single or double berserk

4 x tiaga
4 x wooded foothills
2 x bloodstain mire
1 x forest
7 x mountains

Note: I have not included mogg fanatic since he doesn't get much help from berserk

[tyrcho]

I won a local tournament today with this goyf-sligh list :

20 creatures :
lavamancer
kird ape
mogg fanatic
keldon marauders
tarmogoyf

20 burn
magma jet
light bolt
chain light
rift bolt
fireblast

20 lands
8 red fetch
1 forest
4 taiga
7 mountains

side :
4 krosan grip
3 shattering spree
4 price of progress
4 sulfuric vortex

R1 : Sam, he's a good friend of mine. I made his deck since he hasn't played legacy in a while, it's a Ubgw landstill very similar to Tacosnape's version.
We had tested the matchup a little before, and it is heavily in favor of Rg. I win 2-0 this time, some creatures do damage before he can deal with them and I finish with burn.
I side in vortex and PoP for mogg fanatic and rift bolt. He sides blue elemental blast (and I think could I have also side in meddling mage, or circle of protection red if I had any for his side).
I'd say with a more experienced pilot for landstill the matchup is still about 75% in favor for Rg

R2 : I'm paired down with a somewhat random deck, mono white with some pro red dudes. However his deck has a high curve and I am able to kill him before problems (Conversion, equipements such as swords ...).
I sided in 4 krosan grip for mogg fanatic since he could kill none of his creatures.

R3 : Quentin, another very good friend. I lent him a belcher (RG, 1 land, 4 pyroblast and 4 street wraith maindeck)
We did some tests together, and I got lucky with a failed belcher activation and a small mistake for his blockers and I won 2-0. However during a tournament he is much more serious ...
Game 1 he keeps a slow hand. He is only able to get out 8 goblin tokens on turn 3 and I already have 2 blockers. Since my deck usually kills on turn 4 his in bad shape.
He attacks on turn 4, I take 6, and I am able to burn him out on my turn 4.
I side in 3 shattering spree (I don't really have a side against combo but these could help against a belcher or if he keeps a chrome mox to activate on next turn) for a mountain and 2 magma jet (too slow).
game 2 he has the nuts : 14 goblins on turn 1
game 3 is a great game. I make mogg fanatic turn 1, to his 12 goblins next turn. I get a lavamancer and a second fanatic. He attack with 12 goblins, I block 3, stack damage, and kill 2 more with the fanatics. I take 9 and he has 7 goblins left.
turn 3 I fetch again, going to 9, and make a tarmogoyf and a lavamancer. When he attacks next turn, I take 6, going to 3, and only block with the tarmogoyf. He summons 4 more goblins ... The next turn, I magma jet on my upkeep on a token, put a tarmogoyf on the bottom and draw a fireblast. I play a kird ape. On his next attack, I am able to kill all goblins except 2 with a bolt, a lavamancer activation, a fireblast, and my blockers. I go to 1, but he is unable to kill me before I can finish his tokens with lavamancer and attack with a 5/6 goyf. phew !

R4 : Claire, she's also 3-0 with a classic burn deck with 2 barb rings, 4 flamebreak main. We ID and play about 8 matches for fun in 40 minutes. I won 5-3 mostly because she had to mulligan more often and kept a 1-land hand and got screwed.

So the top 4 is :
me 3-0-1
claire (burn) 3-0-1
Quentin (belcher) 3-1
another belcher 3-1 (lost to quentin round 1)

I really like this list, it is very consistent. I mulligan maybe 20% of time only and the goldfish turn is always turn 4, even with a small resistance of opponent (such as belcher playing a tinder wall).
However it is clearly fit for my metagame which has few combo decks.

I'd like to know your results and tactics against goblins since I had no chance to practice against them.

[kicks_422]

Did you find your land count too high? I like your list btw, simple and eficient. :tongue:

Goyf Sligh has a good game against Goblins, with the steady amount of burn clearing the way for your beaters. The only way they can win against you is when they reach the late game and go Vial Ringleader, Warchief, Piledriver, Piledriver, etc. I've rarely lost to Goblins, and most of the few times I lost, it was to a Vintage FCG variant.

[tyrcho]

Concerning the land count, I have been wondering about it for a while ...
20 lands has several advantages :
- you get your third land drop in time which allows for a more consistent turn 4 kill (very important against combo)
- you are less screwed by wasteland/stifle (such as red thresh)
- you mulligan less often because of one landers
- you can fetch aggressively to fill the graveyard for goyf/lavamancer
- you will have enough for an early fireblast

However you will lose some games against control because your initial onslaught has been dealt with and you topdeck lands instead of gas.

I have considered several cards in replacement of 1 or 2 lands :
- barbarian ring (OK, it's a land) but not a mountain for fireblast, and I only reach threshold against control and if he has killed the lavamancer.
- shard volley : I like the card as a 2 of, but not instead of lands obviously.
- lava spike : good since lategame (turn 4 and after) I usually seek to burn out the oppenent, but I am scared of non versatile burn
- tin-street hooligans : for killing these aether vials or jitte. A bit situational since you need green mana, and it's only a 2/1. Most of the time I am able to burn either opponent or creatures before equipements become really a nuisance.
- maindeck some price of progress/blood moon/magus of the moon : sligthly improves already positive matchups (landstill, thresh), does nothing against most aggro decks

Am I missing sth here ? Flame rift ? I don't really want more creatures since they quickly become useless against blockers (tarmogoyf anyone).
I think the current configuration has some of the best (power/consistency) spells and creatures for the moment, and I don't see the point in putting a random card as 1 or 2 of.
Maybe the best would be to maindeck some sideboard cards if you know your metagame well.

[JvV]

Hi Guys,

I played Goyf Sligh last saturday at a 40-man tournament to a 2nd place finish.

My list was almost identical to the one posted on the last page, but I'll post it anyway.

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
7 Mountain
1 Forest

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Kird Ape
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Keldon Marauders

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast
1 Price of Progress

SB
3 Shattering Spree
3 Price of Progress
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip

I had only 3 Grim Lavamancer available, so I played only 3. I was debating in the car which card I should play a 1-of off, and almost played a single Ball Lightning (for the cool-factor). My friend was warning me all week for Ichorid decks and I got the last minute fear, so I decided to put 3 Crypts in my sideboard. PoP got a mainboard slot (as I really wanted 4) and I cut a Grip and Vortex, figuring I don't have that much land and 4 would be a bit much (which I still think, but they are both almost too good to cut 1 off).
In the end, I never played Ichorid and wonder if it's even played around here.

Short report

Dragon Stompy 2-0
Pretty easy win because of Shattering Spree and too much burn

something 1-2
*shrug* Don't know anymore, sorry

Burn 2-1
This girl played burn with a lot of Ball Lightnings, Volrath's Stronghold and Burning Wish and Rituals.

UGr Thresh 2-1
Close games, lost one to Dragon and Mind Harness, but I pulled out on PoPs.

43 land 2-1
First game he opens with (his only) mb Zuran Orb. Turn 4 Crucible = scoop. Second game I see Ensnaring Bridge and realize I forgot to take out stupid men. Third game I had no more dead weight Goyfs and Apes and burned him out in under 2 minutes.

Welder Survival 2-1
Actually I lost pretty hard, but I know the guy and he couldn't play top 8, so he scooped me in. First game I almost won, but Mesmeric Fiend did me in (otherwise I could've burned him below 0 and burned my Fireblast for Platinum Angel). Second game he rawdogged 2 Shield Spheres and the Survival he needed a turn or 2 before I got to win. This probably isn't that bad of a matchup, but I didn't see any Grips or Orbs.

so, with 5-1 I was first seed going into top 8

quarters: UW Scepter-Chant 2-1
This guy wasn't used to tournaments and it showed in him making sloppy mistakes game 1 (which he still won on Chant-Lock), by giving me like 6 extra turns to find instant burn. I brought in PoP, Grip and Vortex and the game was too easy from there. Most of all this was a very fun game with a lot of friendly banter and a whole lot of jokes from me, him and our friends. Seriously, this guy was the coolest I ever played.

semis: UBr Counterbalance Tog 2-1
He starts game 1 with a turn 1 land, mox, counterbalance, mox imprint nothing 'I thought I had a top too' :S. My hand was very fast, so I thought I had a change. I go turn 1 Mogg Fanatic into blind hit from Counterbalance (Spell Snare, for my Marauders :S). He goes turn 2 Confidant, with Spell Snare backup. I go Marauder into BLIND HIT NO 2 from Counterbalance. From this point I get really pissed off and introvert. We both play blisteringly fast and he takes game 1. I take game 2. Game 3 I go turn 1 Mogg Fanatic into Daze. I go turn 2 Kird Ape. He wastes my Taiga, but I have another fetchland for Taiga. He wastes it again, but I have another fetchland. He triple wastes it, but I have ANOTHER fetchland to take it home. I think I won this on the 20 land-count.

finals: Ug Counterbalance-Nought
This deck was too much. He had Noughts, Goyfs, Counterbalance, Shackles, Stifles and Daze, which fought my deck on all grounds. He even Shackled my Marauders after I removed the last counter, which resulted in a free 3/3 for him. Well, it was a fun game, bad matchup against a very good player (Robert van Medevoort).

In the end I got 2nd and an Underground Sea for my efforts, so that's nice.

I wouldn't change a whole lot to the deck I played. I want to put the 4th Lavamancer in though, he was nuts all day (in contrast to the last time I played GoyfSligh, when he was underwhelming). 4th PoP stays, but in the SB. I guess I'll just take out the Crypts, and put a Grip and a Vortex back again, I don't know yet. Does anyone have opinions about this? I'm a bit hesitant to cut the Crypts because we have a lot of Loam and Survival in our meta. Although, I haven't tested the deck that much to know if it makes matchups better/worse (mostly extra burn is better :P).
Oh yeah, I boarded my Goyfs out a lot. More people who do that?

Cheers,

Joeri

[zander1]

Hi

I finished yesterday as 3rd of 15 people at my lokal tournament.
My list was a little different:

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
6 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Barbarian Ring
=22 lands

4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Dark Confidant
4 Countryside Crusher
=23 creatures

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast
=15 spells

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Magus of the Moon( I'm still looking for Blood Moons)
4 Price of Progress
3 Choke

The difference between the usual Goyf Sligh lists is, that I play more creatures and not the usual land count of 18. I play 4 Crusher AND 4 Confidants to be sure to have a goddraw in the lategame, which happened pretty often. I also play 22 lands to be able to support the 3rd land drop for Crusher, to feed Crusher and not to be knocked down if ******** stifles my Fetchlands.

Crusher was incredible and won me lots of matches because he became huge pretty quickly and helped me never drawing a land again. I only once wished that he would have been something faster when I played against Iggy Pop. But in the other matches he had an average body of 6 did a lot of pressure.

[tyrcho]

I tried also the black splash but without much success, your inclusion of crusher seems a good idea since you rely more on the mid-endgame with confidant.

However I have some concerns with your list :
- is quirion dryad relevant with this higher curve ? It's usually played with spells such as lava dart. I would keep keldon marauders in this slot.
- I would definitively play 4 lavamancer
- why only 2 duals of each RG and RB, is it a budget restriction ?
- I don't like moon effects in a Rgb shell, price of progress should be enough to wreck these decks.
- Same with Choke, I think you have a good matchup agains landstill and should be slightly favorable against threshold. And it does not do enough against Faery Stompy.
- if you play black, you could add some discard instead in the board

I'd like to know how you felt about barbarian ring ? With crusher do you have threshold often enough to warrant its inclusion ?

To clear things up, here is the Rgb list I'd play with crusher

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
6 Mountain
=22 lands

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Countryside Crusher
3 keldon marauders
=23 creatures

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast
=15 spells

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Price of Progress
4 thoughtseize
3 duress









Concerning the classic Rg list, has someone found an idea to replace the 19th or 20th land ? Someone suggested to me Reckless Abandon but even if great with marauders I'm afraid it's too situational.

[Dr.Kokusho]

I would like to suggest 4 manamorposes to be included in this deck because

1. They feed the yard for goyf and mancer

2. Pumps dryad for free

3. Thins the deck and frees up the 4 weakest slots

4. Gives access to black or green even under blood moon

5. It does make mulliganning harder though especially with two in the opening hand

[JvV]

I don't know. Of course it's a possibility, but what to cut? Some lands? I think this discussion is held earlier, when Street Wraith came out. You could go for 4 Manamorphose, 4 Street Wraith, 8 Baubles and have a virtual 44 card deck. I don't know...

--

I played Goyf Sligh again last weekend in a 14 man tournament, placing 3rd.

My list was exactly the same as last week. I didn't have time to really think about it and test a lot and I really liked the list.

T2 Mono-G Treefolk 2-1
So, obviously, I thought I had received the bye. It turns out, Sligh has some difficulties with accelerated fat men backed up with Heartwood Treefolk. The 1 and 2-drops are 0/3 and 1/3 respectively, so your men do next to nothing. I lost game 2 because he got a lot of big men down fast and apparently Dauntless Dourbark has trample when you have another Treefolk and he smashed me for lots. Rest of the game I won fairly easily, but that's probably mostly because he wasn't that experienced and made some weird mistakes like playing a non-creature with a Heartwood Treefolk out when he had the advantage. Game 3 Vortex did like 10 damage to him

43 land 1-2
This is not a bad matchup, but game 1 he won on the back of Zuran Orb. Game 2 his gameplan involves Gambling to that same Zuran Orb. He lays down his cards face-down for me to select one at random to discard. I stare long and hard at them and obviously I choose the Zuran Orb. Game 3 I mulligan to 4 and he goes turn 1 Forest, Manabond, Zuran Orb, eot discard my hand including a Loam... Nice. Draw.

Elves Combo 2-0
Some deck containing lots of elves, Staff of Domination etc. Game 1 he goes land, elf. I Fanatic it. He doesn't have any more land or 1 drop elves. Game 2 he goes land, elf. I burn it. He plays another elf. I Fanatic it. Again he doesn't have any more land...
We play one more for fun (as we were done in under 5 minutes) and he does have some game this time. Turns out though, as long as I keep burning his good elves I just win this matchup.

Rector Survival 2-1
I think he wins game 1. Game 2 I win through Vortex. Game 3 I have double Grip for his Ivory Mask and 1st Survival. He has a 2nd Survival and tutors up a Hierarch going to 12, but has no more creatures. I have a PoP for 8 dmg and Fireblast. Why he didn't go for Squee before Hierarch is a mystery, but I think it saved my butt. Still, his deck is slow-ish and vulnerable to Grip, PoP and Vortex.

Elves 2-1
He played Eladamri, Lords and Garruk, with Thorn of Amethyst and Jitte. I win game 1 very fast, because he kept a slow hand. I punt game 2 when he has an Eladamri and Garruk and I have Goyf and some burn. I burn him and attack him for 5, instead of burning Eladamri and attacking Garruk. His turn he goes Lord, Jitte, Amethyst. I respond by burning his men, but Garruk+Jitte takes it home. Game 3 I win fairly easily again.

--

As long as I dodge combo, the deck seems to perform very good. It punishes bad draws and bad players like nobody's business, which I like. I think it loses to good aggro-control players and combo, but hey, you can't win 'em all.

[Peter_Rotten]

I would like to suggest 4 manamorposes to be included in this deck because

1. They feed the yard for goyf and mancer
I have found this to be a non-issue - IOW, not a strong reason for including any card. Is ManaMorphses an instant or sorcery? I don't recall, but you are probably running plenty of Instants already and 4 sorceries - maybe 8 with Chain Lightnings and Rift Bolts in there.


2. Pumps dryad for free
Not quite. It will always "cost" 2 mana. Yes, you will usually be able to cycle that mana, but it should be tested to see how often that mana doesn't get used. Also, most lists have forsaken Dryads.


3. Thins the deck and frees up the 4 weakest slots
But what slots are those? How often will the card cost us 1 or two life, and how often will that matter? What should we remove from the generally accepted lists? Burn spells? Critters?


4. Gives access to black or green even under blood moon
Is this really needed?


5. It does make mulliganning harder though especially with two in the opening hand
Two in the opening hand sounds like a real pain in the ass.

Simply put, I'm not really a big fan of cards that don't really do anything, and ultimately, Manamorphsesisies does a bunch of cute minor things but not much of relevance. I also imagine that the card is a crappier top deck than StreetWraith.

[Dr.Kokusho]

When I suggested manamorphose I was thinking of the three color build with a confidant splash. In this case the mana fixing of manamorphose is very useful especially with prevalent moon effects. Also a feature of three color builds is that they do not run basic forests and swamps and smart opponents destroy lands that produce these mana on sight making access to those colors difficult. Considering that the best sideboard cards require green then the mana fixing provided by manamorphose becomes a vital strategy for victory.

As to what to cut for the metamorphose it really depends on your deck composition the meta in the area. Just replace the cards that have underperformed. Besides the manamorphose does not have to be a 4 of. It could just replace 2 or 3 weakest cards in the deck.

[Peter_Rotten]

Considering that the best sideboard cards require green then the mana fixing provided by manamorphose becomes a vital strategy for victory.

This sounds like a terrible exaggeration. Actual testing will be needed since the card doesn't really do anything other than fix mana and cycle. And IF mana fixing was an issue (whihc is debatable), why was Goyf Sligh not running mana fixers like Chromatic Star or Wild Cantor? Both, I understand, are weaker than Manamorphose in many/most conditions , but why has mana-fixing become "vital" now?.

[zander1]

I tried also the black splash but without much success, your inclusion of crusher seems a good idea since you rely more on the mid-endgame with confidant.

However I have some concerns with your list :
- is quirion dryad relevant with this higher curve ? It's usually played with spells such as lava dart. I would keep keldon marauders in this slot.
- I would definitively play 4 lavamancer
- why only 2 duals of each RG and RB, is it a budget restriction ?
- I don't like moon effects in a Rgb shell, price of progress should be enough to wreck these decks.
- Same with Choke, I think you have a good matchup agains landstill and should be slightly favorable against threshold. And it does not do enough against Faery Stompy.
- if you play black, you could add some discard instead in the board

I'd like to know how you felt about barbarian ring ? With crusher do you have threshold often enough to warrant its inclusion ?



-I think that Quirion Dryad is good in this deck, because its single dissynergy is Crusher. But I usually won't play him turn three if I played Dryad turn two, because then I'd like to shoot the way free for my critters. Another idea is, that my opponent has to deal with huge Tarmogoyfs, Dryads, Crushers and useful Confidants. If one sticks, I have already won. And they are 16 cards in my deck. I don't like to make my deck mor "burnish" with the Marauders, because you don't really have creatures who stick and make the game. I don't like to be addicted to draw enough burn to finish your opponent.
-I played only three because I had to cut a creature and I cut him because he was the only critter I don't want twice. I might change cut the Fanatics instead.
-It's a budget restriction. My manabase would look like this:
8 Fetches
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountains
2 Barb Rings
-Blood Moon helps against a lot of decks, especially against ********, which matchup isn't favorable. I also have Choke as a SB card against *****, it should be 3 Hidden Gibbons, but even with the full board it's only slightly favouable against red *****. The chokes will become Vexing Shushers, maybe it will change the matchup heavily. There is no faery stompy in my meta.
-I also already thought of the discard idea, but the problem is: Price of Progress and Blood Moon are uncutable and 90 percent of the ******** decks in my meta have dreadnoughts in their sideboards :cry: against goblins, dredge and me. It's not easy to deal with a turn two dreadnought , so I also have two play Krosan Grip. Discard would help with that problem too, but Survival is also played in my meta(but maybe discard also helps against it). plus, discard is dead in the lategame. I think I'll test test this SB this week:
4Pop
4Blood Moon
4Thoughtseize
3Duress
I'll write how they have been doing.

I don't know who to feel for the Barb Rings. Sometimes they are really great with Crusher in play and are pretty useful, but in other times they just do damage and get wasted. ******** is no problem because if I have no Lavamancers i usually have ***** and if a Lavamancer sticks, I don't care for the "useless" Ring, because the Lavamancer probably deals 6-8damage on its own. Ifound two to be a good number, because you won't see two and it's sometimes the additional burn you need.

[Dr.Kokusho]

The fixers you mentioned are a loss of tempo which is vital in aggro decks. Manamorphose does not cost tempo whiich makes it worlds better than the mana fixing options you mentioned.

It is vital now due to prevalence of metagame decks that disrupt decks using non-basic mana bases. Besides the two color may do without the fixing but the thee cclor build is a different story.

Testing indeed is needed and that is what I am doing. I never said the card was an auto include but a card that should be considered for inclusion.

[kicks_422]

I'll let the opponent disrupt my manabase. I'll just ride my Goyf and PoP for the win.

Seriously, this is Goyf Sligh. Since when do you need to think about the deck this much? Just put beaters, burn, and lands, and you're all set.

[Hightower]

No news here since 4-15 =(

I have been testing this deck alot lately, and I think it has alot of potential. I'm testing 3x maindeck Greater Gargadon, so I have a viable plan for midgame/lategame except goyfs..

Im also planning on testing Countryside Crusher as the "high end" in the curve, not sure about him tho- but his synergy with Fireblast is cool.

Roger over

[FredMaster]

If it comes to the lategame, you shouldn't be giving your opponent a target for his removal, and especially not such a clumsy one without evasion.
Seriously,
Goyfsligh lists should look somewhat like Burn:
Straight and without any "gimmicks".
Your goal should be to bring your opponent to about 7 life in the first 4-5 rounds. From then on, it's all about topdecking burnspells.

Countryside Crusher is really not too much of a good idea, since you don't want to play a critter that has no evasion, takes huge time to grow huge enough to be good. Crusher needs to be played in Aggro Loam and nowhere else.

Imo the critterbase clearly looks like this:
4 Goyf
4 Mancer
4 Marauder
4 Fanatic

End of story

A black splash isn't necessary as well i think because a) it screws your manabase and b) doesn't make your sideboard so much better that a splash would be needed

So far from me.

[zander1]

@FredMaster

If it really comes to the lategame and you need burn to finish the game, they have probably disrupted you heavily with Counterbalance, Chalice, Circle of protection, etc.
So then you draw a burn spell which is dead since it would get countered or gets prevented.
That's exactly the reason I stopped playing burn because it's too vulnerable. With goyfsligh you can play some critters in the early game and the finish with the critter OR the burn spells.

And yeah, it's true. I give him targets for his removal. Many many targets. He's forced to deal with Goyf, crusher, dryad and confidant. If one of them sticks, I have won. So why should it be better to play creatures like the marauders who vanish after two turns to give his removal a single target named Goyf????? So his removal only has to eat your goyf, while their Goyf will kill you. No marauder will help you with that.

It may be that a black splash screws my manabase but that's why I'm running 22 lands. WOW, I'm really frightened of wasteland. While all other goyf sligh players only play 18 lands, often a stifle on their first fetchland will be enough to screw them for a couple of turns. Also, that's why I'm running a single forest and a single swamp in the deck, because so I can play around it and make Blood Moon in my SB better. Usually when I have for example a goyf and a dryad in my hand, I fetch for a mountain, a Badlands and a forest. If I have Confidants, I do otherwise. It's really not that hard to deal with wasteland if you're running 22 lands.

I never said that the black splash makes my sideboard better and now at the moment I don't think that discard fits into the SB because it's dead in the lategame and there are enough better SB options.

[Peter_Rotten]

@FredMaster

If it really comes to the lategame and you need burn to finish the game, they have probably disrupted you heavily with Counterbalance, Chalice, Circle of protection, etc.

I fully disagree with what you are saying here. So MANY games are ended with a burn spell. In fact, I believe that the basic philosophy of the deck is to beat early and burn later.

And how would drawing a critter in the situation you outlined (heavily disrupted by Counterbalance, Chalice, CoP) be better than drawing a burn spell? Counterbalance will likely be able to handle any late game critter. So will Chalice and a CoP (admittedly both depends on the specifics of the situation).

[Sims]

Serious question here that I am way too tired to actually read this thread all over again for the answer:

Why are people running black? What is your reason for running a third color when all you need is to run 3-4 taigas and 1-2 basic forests with a compliment of fetches, round out toa bout 19ish lands, and then pack the rest with 16-19 beaters and a load of burn. What is black for? Goblins? Run Pyroclasms or Flamebreaks. Truth be told, you should have a positive goblins match anyways. Combo? You're probably going to lose even with hand disruption. What the hell do you need black for? Confidant? That is the ONLY reason you're running black, for a fragile as hell draw engine that you don't even really need? You're killing a pretty solid mana base that can run blood moons of it's own for that? When you are thinking about running suboptimal cards such as Manamorphose to stabalize a manabase that shouldn't have problems for a card that is a questionable inclusion in the first place (because you really don't need it) then you might be taking the deck in the wrong direction.

/rant off.

[Pinder]

Run Pyroclasms or Flamebreaks. Truth be told, you should have a positive goblins match anyways.

Actually, run Firespout. Sure, it might not always hit every creature like Pyroclasm, but roughly 90% of the time you're only aiming for the ground anyway, and the odds that you'll even be able to spend only :r: or :g: on it are pretty small (in strict terms, they're your odds of playing it for :g::g::g: or :r::r::r:). For all intents and purposes, this is an infinitely more castable Flamebreak. And the possibility of playing it for :g::g::g: to take out just fliers so your ground pounders can clean up the floor is sort of appealing, too.

Although I suppose it doesn't hit players. But you have enough ways to deal your opponent damage, no?

[Jak]

Is this deck going to run Shusher? Answers a lot of problems and bats for 2.

[Sims]

Actually, run Firespout. Sure, it might not always hit every creature like Pyroclasm, but roughly 90% of the time you're only aiming for the ground anyway, and the odds that you'll even be able to spend only :r: or :g: on it are pretty small (in strict terms, they're your odds of playing it for :g::g::g: or :r::r::r:). For all intents and purposes, this is an infinitely more castable Flamebreak. And the possibility of playing it for :g::g::g: to take out just fliers so your ground pounders can clean up the floor is sort of appealing, too.

Although I suppose it doesn't hit players. But you have enough ways to deal your opponent damage, no?


Okay, this point is actually valid. Flamebreak was a stretch, but thrown in because it will hit the opponent. Usually this spot is Pyroclasm for me, because it costs 2. But the points about Black being unnecessary remain.


@Jak: It's been on my list for testing, but I'm unsure if he'll make the final cut yet. Beats in for two but he has a tendency of tying up mana in a fairly low curve, land light deck. Testing will tell, as per usual, but I'm honestly on the fence as of yet.

[scrumdogg]

By tying up mana you mean allowing you to actually cast spells that Chalice & Counterbalance had previous made completely unuseable? Explain to me how that is bad, exactly? Cuz if he's not doing that, how is he tying up mana?

[Jak]

By tying up mana you mean allowing you to actually cast spells that Chalice & Counterbalance had previous made completely unuseable? Explain to me how that is bad, exactly? Cuz if he's not doing that, how is he tying up mana?

100% agreed. He is just a main deckable answer to the cards that hold this deck back. He happens to deal damage while allowing burn and more creatures to get through the wall.

[Sims]

Well, it's akin to Sphere of Resistancing yourself. You can play through it with minor annoyance, though I'd rather have a real answer to CB that actually gets rid of it instead, like Grip. I'm not saying that it isn't a powerful effect, if you can keep him alive, but the difference between casting 2-3 burn spells a turn and being able to cast 1 uncounterable one is pretty significant.

edit-
100% agreed. He is just a main deckable answer to the cards that hold this deck back. He happens to deal damage while allowing burn and more creatures to get through the wall.

Again, I revert to the "it's a strong effect but the cost is heavy"... It may very well be worth that cost, but I'd rather permanently get rid of the Counterbalance as opposed to trying to force one, maybe two if you're lucky, through CB and then watch them remove the shusher and you're stuck sitting infront of the wall again. Also, granted it's relevent to the build that We've been running, Chalice has not been the issue that CB has. In most situations, I'd rather Grip the CB than play the shusher. But I don't actually have them to test it, and I don't trust people on MWS for actual testing.

Also, Maindeck him over what? Most builds run 3-4 Grim, 4 Mogg, 4 Keldon Marauder, 4 Tarmogoyf and then a bunch of burn... What are you going to replace?

[Jak]

Well, it's akin to Sphere of Resistancing yourself. You can play through it with minor annoyance, though I'd rather have a real answer to CB that actually gets rid of it instead, like Grip. I'm not saying that it isn't a powerful effect, if you can keep him alive, but the difference between casting 2-3 burn spells a turn and being able to cast 1 uncounterable one is pretty significant.

Look at it this way.


THey get their turn 2 Counter Top out. You smile, lay down a turn 2 Shusher. They Ponder and dig for an answer. You attack for two and then cast incinerate. They drop Goyf. You keep buring through and dropping guys. They have no way to stop this unless they Plow him, but then that keeps your Gofs on the board and allows them to do work. Krosan Grip gets rid of CB, but does nothing to stop them from countering that Price of Progress or Fireblast and then they just keep your Goyfs off the table.

This deck is aggressive and Shusher allows it to play that way. Still keep Grip in the side, but having that answer MD means that game one is extremely winnable.

Edit- He only is a mana sink when you need him to be. Yu would be twiddling your thumbs if he wasn't there. I think testing should be done because I have no idea how he would fit because I don't play this deck. I am just saying that a deck that loses to Chalice and CB should play this card. It is perfect for this deck.

[scrumdogg]

Well, it's akin to Sphere of Resistancing yourself. You can play through it with minor annoyance, though I'd rather have a real answer to CB that actually gets rid of it instead, like Grip. I'm not saying that it isn't a powerful effect, if you can keep him alive, but the difference between casting 2-3 burn spells a turn and being able to cast 1 uncounterable one is pretty significant.

edit-

Again, I revert to the "it's a strong effect but the cost is heavy"... It may very well be worth that cost, but I'd rather permanently get rid of the Counterbalance as opposed to trying to force one, maybe two if you're lucky, through CB and then watch them remove the shusher and you're stuck sitting infront of the wall again. Also, granted it's relevent to the build that We've been running, Chalice has not been the issue that CB has. In most situations, I'd rather Grip the CB than play the shusher. But I don't actually have them to test it, and I don't trust people on MWS for actual testing.

Also, Maindeck him over what? Most builds run 3-4 Grim, 4 Mogg, 4 Keldon Marauder, 4 Tarmogoyf and then a bunch of burn... What are you going to replace?

You only have to use his cost when needed...and they need both Top & Counterbalance to make you sink mana in. Otherwise an EOT test spell will reveal what their top card cc is & allow you to play accordingly. Quite frankly, even with Counter-Top down, you both invest mana but in a complete reversal of fortune, now YOU are the one actually getting action out of the exchange. Grip is still a fine SB option, and tasty in addition to the Shusher, but you get Shusher Game 1 - which is like cheating (an activity Randy Buehler has confined almost solely to the color blue and the mechanic storm until now...). As for what to replace, that is much more difficult & would probably depend on what you expect in your meta. In one a-swarm with Thresh & Landstill, Mogg can be replaced easiest I believe. Heavy Goblins & other aggro-ish decks? At this point it could stay in the SB for the control matchups you might face. In a combo meta...why are you playing Goyf Sligh?

[Sims]

It's on the docket of things to test, and probably will get tested by one of us at Hadley. I'm probably the most skeptical of him on the team, but I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if he strongly turns the tables on some of the weaker match ups. I just can't rely on MWS testing and it isn't as if Team Albany gets together to play every week like we used to.

[Thor]

Hello I recently played this deck at my local tourny (33 people).Ended up losing 1st round of the top 8, but anyway my list:

4x Kird Ape
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Keldon Marauders
4X Tarmogoyf

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
4xMagma Jet
3xFire Blast
2x Price of Progress

8x Fetches
4xTaiga
1x Forest
6x Mountian

SB:
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Krosan Grip
2x Price of Progress
3x P. Pilliar
2x Pyroclasm

The only problem I had was that kird ape never did anything, what would you advise for this build instead of the monkey? More burn? A Three Drop?(Crusher or Burning Tree) Also I wouldn't mind knowing the SB plan you guys use, Thanks in Advance.

[Zach Tartell]

I feel like you need to fit some Shushers in here. Let's try -4 Kird Ape +2 Price of Progress +1 Fireblast +1 Shusher for the main.

Then -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Tormod's Crypt, -3 Pyrostatic Pilar, -2 Pyroclasm, +4 Chalice of the Void, +3 Shusher.

Unless you don't have to worry about Counterbalance Thresh, then I'd add another random Burn Spell (or man that can eat artifacts such as Hearth Kami) over the MB'd Susher, and 3 more metagame slots in the board. What do you see in tournaments?

[Thor]

I had actually been thinking about take out the pillers for Shushers, as for the meta you never really know Painter's Grindstone(all in Thresh shells) was big yesterday, a couple loam, goblins, burn and enchantress decks ,somtimes a belcher and then some random Homebrew decks.

[raharu]

Out of idle curiosity, why don't more people use Rancor? I've been running it in my RG stompy deck and it's fucking nuts. It makes just about anything a threat and in the deck three posts above would solve your 'Kird Ape does nothing' problem.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Out of idle curiosity, why don't more people use Rancor? I've been running it in my RG stompy deck and it's fucking nuts. It makes just about anything a threat and in the deck three posts above would solve your 'Kird Ape does nothing' problem.

Potential card disadvantage, which is fatal in relevant matchups.

[Sims]

I feel like you need to fit some Shushers in here. Let's try -4 Kird Ape +2 Price of Progress +1 Fireblast +1 Shusher for the main.

Then -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Tormod's Crypt, -3 Pyrostatic Pilar, -2 Pyroclasm, +4 Chalice of the Void, +3 Shusher.

Unless you don't have to worry about Counterbalance Thresh, then I'd add another random Burn Spell (or man that can eat artifacts such as Hearth Kami) over the MB'd Susher, and 3 more metagame slots in the board. What do you see in tournaments?

While I can see going to 4 Price in the main, particularly in some environments, I really can't recommend 4 Fireblasts though. With a 19 land manabase, you really can't afford to be over-aggressive with your mountains and that leaves dead cards in your hand. We don't like dead cards. Maybbe instead, -4 Kird, +2 PoP +2 Shusher, or +1 PoP +3 Shusher. Either way you wanna roll on that regard.

Maybe this is just my metagame speaking through me, so I'll ask it in a more general form to the lists OP: Do you really see much TES/FT in your metagame? If not, then Chalice can be something else as it's never really going to help you. You can't reliably set it on anything other than 0 or 1 and 1 hurts you, badly. Vs. Belcher it helps a bit, but (maybe this is personal preference) I know that combo is a race even with Chalice on hte table, so I'd rather bite the bullet and take my matchloss against the random 1 or 2 combo decks that show in the meta I play at, and save those board slots for something else.

[Thor]

I'm not sure if this was addressed to me, but I see hardly any combo thats not belcher(one person runs SI) and I tend to think the same as you.

"I'd rather bite the bullet and take my matchloss against the random 1 or 2 combo decks that show in the meta I play at, and save those board slots for something else"

[Braves]

I'm not sure if this was addressed to me, but I see hardly any combo thats not belcher(one person runs SI) and I tend to think the same as you.

"I'd rather bite the bullet and take my matchloss against the random 1 or 2 combo decks that show in the meta I play at, and save those board slots for something else"

Indeed.

[F3d3x]

Is Browbeat an option at all?

[Peter_Rotten]

Is Browbeat an option at all?

No - never. Especially against our greatest enemy - Chalice, Trini, and CounterBalance. Against those cards, you'll be paying 3 mana to draw three spells that you can't cast.

[Thor]

Is Browbeat an option at all?

Why would you play a situational three mana sorcery that will never finish off a game?

[Jak]

Has anyone tried a board like this?

4 Chaice of the Void
4 Pyroclasm
4 Krosan Grip
3 Shattering Spree

With 4 Shushers main.

[Sims]

Has anyone tried a board like this?

4 Chaice of the Void
4 Pyroclasm
4 Krosan Grip
3 Shattering Spree

With 4 Shushers main.

If you can find room for the 4 Shushers that'd be great. My deck is a bit tight, I've been trying to squeeze em in but I've been unable to acutally find room for all 4 without removing utility needed for the meta that I'm playing in...The board looks good except for the Chalices.. Is Chalice necessary? It's only really useful against Storm Combo and even then it's an uphill battle (though not unwinnable.) I don't like Chalice in this decks board at all. But that's my opinion.

[Wallace]

....Is Chalice necessary? It's only really useful against Storm Combo and even then it's an uphill battle (though not unwinnable.) I don't like Chalice in this decks board at all. But that's my opinion.

What he said, CotV is to narrow a sideboard to be included in this deck. If you are that worried about combo run Pillar.

[Jak]

I think it does really well at slowing them down. Drop it for zero and they have to remove it to go for tendrils or EtW or remove it. That all takes time to set up. That allows for more time to burn. The MUis still bad, but Chalice makes it at least winnable.

Shusher fit real well. Here is what I use on MWS.

4 Vexxing Shusher
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Fire Blast
3 Price of Progress

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
6 Mountain
1 Forest

Been pretty nice.

[kicks_422]

I would drop the single Forest for the 4th Lavamancer. Otherwise, looks good.

[Sims]

I would drop the single Forest for the 4th Lavamancer. Otherwise, looks good.


Eh. I wouldn't mind seeing the 4th Grim in that list (which actually looks pretty Solid, Jak. Id have one minor switch for my metagame, that's bout it,) but I wouldn't go below 19 lands for it if he's running Shusher and may need more than 2 lands at any given point in a game. Also, I wouldn't remove the single Forest for it anyways, as it's never been a hinderance and has helped save my ass by letting me cast goyf and not kill myself to Price of Progress in tight aggro matches.

[F3d3x]

This is a creature intensive version that I just wanted to see what you guys thought.

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Kird Ape
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Keldon Marauders

4 Rancor
4 Reckless Charge

4 Chain lighting
4 Lihgting bolt
4 Seal of Fire
3 Fireblast

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
1 Forest
6 Mountain

[kicks_422]

That's more RG Beats-ish than Goyf Sligh. I would run something else over Pit-Skulk though (Quirion Dryad?).

[F3d3x]

Never been much of a fan of the Dryad. If she don't go down on turn 2 shes ehh IMO.

That list is still Sligh.The Sligh concept is just creating a low mana curve, being able to play something every turn.

[Wallace]

This is a creature intensive version that I just wanted to see what you guys thought.

4 Rancor
4 Reckless Charge



Cards like rancor, reckless charge, giant growth and brute force are a waste in Goyf Sligh. Your can easily 2 for 1 you with a removal spell and you will lose valuable tempo. Goyf Sligh should be creatures (12-16) and burn spells (20-24) with 18 to 20 land.

[Peter_Rotten]

I tend to agree. Rancor and Reckless Charge almost make up for the potential card disadvantage by sometimes getting used more than once. However, in this deck I dislike cards that rely on other cards to be good. Imagine an opening hand like this:

Mountain
Sac-Land
Fanatic
Rancor
Rancor
Reckless
Bolt

It doesn't seem that hot. Would those critter-pump spells be better as burn? Probably.

If you are determined to play with a 2/2 for :g: then I'd consider running Skyshroud Elite - who will probably be 2/3 more often than not. I dislike that Pit-Skulk so much, I'd consider (in this deck) running Scryb Sprites over hmm. The evasion could be funny with all that creature pump.

Lastly, that land count is too low, IMO. Up it to at least 18. Consider another Forest or 2life dual since you are running 12 green spells and will need :g: more often than the traditional builds.

[F3d3x]

Chances of me pulling creatures for the next couple turns are very high. While that draw is not nearly ideal, I have as much a chance of drawing that hand as I do a 3rd round kill.

Skulk's got evasion, and superior to Sprites. Skyshroud are deff not worth it. Its not always a 2/3 and no evasion. With Apes at least you have the control of him being a 2/3

But I know the issues with Rancor, and Reckless Charge. You will get multiple uses of them most of the time. I just like the idea of a Skulk swinging right out your hand for 5.

[Peter_Rotten]

But Skulk forces you to use your burn much more proactively than reactively (which, BTW, you have less of). Test him out. I have a feeling that he will be rather underwhelming in Legacy.

[F3d3x]

Yeah your are more then likely correct. I think it would catch a few people with their pants down, but over all consistency would be lacking.

[F3d3x]

Ok round 2 at a list for me. I dig the Firewalker over the Kird ape, with the Quirion Dryad so I have 3 critters that potentially getting bigger as the game goes on. Ideas?

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
1 Forest
6 Mountain

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Quirion Dryad

4 Chain lighting
4 Lighting bolt
4 Seal of Fire
4 Magma Jet
2 Tarfire
3 Fireblast

Sidebord
4 Shattering spree
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Tranquil Domain
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

[Wallace]

Ok round 2 at a list for me. I dig the Firewalker over the Kird ape, with the Quirion Dryad so I have 3 critters that potentially getting bigger as the game goes on. Ideas?

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
1 Forest
6 Mountain

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Quirion Dryad

4 Chain lighting
4 Lighting bolt
4 Seal of Fire
4 Magma Jet
2 Tarfire
3 Fireblast

Sidebord
4 Shattering spree
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Tranquil Domain
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

Needs more Keldon Marauders!!!

[Zach Tartell]

A big thing you want to consider is the possibility of drawing whatever card you're playing in the late game. Is Dryad a good topdeck? Firewalker? They're both pretty underwhelming. If not played on turn two.

[kicks_422]

Back when I was playing this deck (pre-Goyf era), I loved the Gro aspect with Firewalkers and Dryads... However, now... Not too much, especially Slith. It needs to hit before it gets bigger, whereas Goyf just needs to be cast. Dryad is still good though, because it can grow even bigger than Goyf, in certain situations.

You're on the right track though, for a creature-heavy Sligh deck. I'd suggest cutting the Sliths for Marauders though, as Sacearuse said. And please, cut the Tarfire. The +1 to Goyf would hurt you more than it would help. If your meta permits, run 2 Price of Progress in those slots.

[F3d3x]

Yeah sho nuf I think the marauders is better. I just like throwing in a little flair to the deck. I think Goyf and Dryad may be enough flair for me. But sub out the Firewalker for Marauders I will.

Also Logically Tarfire is replaced by Price of Progress. More I think about it Tarfire is only good with the Goyf on the table. Better to have something with more bang for its buck. Also if the mete shifts what's its replacement, Rift bolt? I am not a huge fan of the suspend.

What about sideboard suggestions? I am running into bunch, of control, and just about every combo deck out there. Gobos, Thresh, and random decks round it out. There are a couple Enchantress decks thats for the Tranquil domains, but not sure they are worth the slot...

[mugs]

This Recently Won a 77 player Iserlohn Legacy

http://www.deckcheck.net//event.php?event=Iserlohn+Legacy+-+May+2008

Iserlohn has always seem to be a solid developed legacy field to me, so winning is a good indicator to me of a decks viablilty

The list really looks good – abet a few oddities

I am wondering what anyone else thinks of this version.

//NAME: rgbgoyfsligh

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant (I’m thinking -1 due to tight mana but will likly keep as 4 of )
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt

2 Chain Lightning
2 Magma Jet (like this balance with Chain Lightning as 2 each –though chain is better running the creature bring chains liability up more often so the split seems solid to me)

4 Fireblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte ( I think this is fine as a one of)

1 Pithing Needle (-1 I’m guessing it was too crowded in SB: but I’d rather have 1 EE as a random)
1 Choke (-1 this is too specific for me but solid in sideboard)
2 Manamorphose (+1 to help out with black and green mana, looks solid in this deck)

Land : I like it a lot --- But looks a bit short on black mana for a reliable early Confidant or Planar Void.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
1 Badlands
5 Mountain
1 Forest

// Sideboard:
SB: 1 Pithing Needle (+1 from main)
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 4 Engineered Explosives (-1 put into main over Needle)
SB: 3 Blood Moon – (-3 – Ilke 2 Mangus better in this deck and 1 Choke that was main deck)
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt (+1 just a more reliable early mana costed drop over Planar Void)
SB: 2 Planar Void (-1)


My own take on the Build.
//NAME: rgbgoyfsligh - Mugs redone

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
2 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Engineered Explosives
3 Manamorphose

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Taiga
1 Badlands
5 Mountain
1 Forest

// Sideboard:
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 3 Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 Mangus of the Moon
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Planar Void

Any thougths on welcome?

[Hanni]

I've been having fun on MWS all day with this list:

R/g Goyf Sligh

Lands (19)
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
6 Mountain
1 Forest

Creatures (18)
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Kird Ape
4 Keldon Marauders
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells (23)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Seal of Fire
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard (15)
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Umezawa's Jitte

[Thrasher]

i play this deck with black,i think is better than the usual RG version:
My own builds is this:

// Lands
3 [R] Taiga
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
5 [MR] Mountain (1)
1 [UG] Forest
1 [R] Badlands

// Creatures
3 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [R] Kird Ape
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
3 [PS] Quirion Dryad
3 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [4E] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [FD] Magma Jet
4 [VI] Fireblast
2 [EX] Price of Progress
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [MI] Incinerate

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate


Black is good 4 thoughtseize and extirpate in sb,thoughtseize is the only way to deal with combo decks,i think, extirpate is good with many decks,but i added it recently and i haven't fully tested it yet.
Also in sb i think vexing shusher can be soooooo god,it is the best vs chalice of the void and countertop.
I play quirion dryad simply because many times becomes fatter than a goyf,but i play only a 3x because in late game is not the best.I've tryied manamorphose but i cut it,i prefer a burn over it,but is not bad

Enjoy :D

[Illissius]

What about Hidden Herd? Yeah, it sucks in the late game. You want to win (or at least, deal significant amounts of damage to your opponent by attacking with creatures) in the early game. And yeah, a 3/3 on the first turn could help with that.

Drawbacks:

- If your opponent draws the one basic land they have in their deck, they could delay the Herd by a turn -- how often this happens and how much it sucks would likely have to be tested.

- Since the advent of Dragon Stompy, people have been playing more basic lands. So maybe this isn't the right time.

[kicks_422]

Don't use Jittes. It would screw your tempo much more than it would help you.

Also, the last thing that this deck needs is more beaters from the SB.

[Pulp_Fiction]

About a month ago I was playing in a standard FNM tournament, I hate standard but I was bored and decided to play. Anyway, I had to play against one of my friend who was playing R/G beats. Tattermunge Maniac is SICK. I was playing Mono B control and this damn card just rocked me in the face. Has anyone tested him out in this deck? He seems incredible. Cutting the random 1-ofs or a few random burn spells for this guy seems like a decent idea. I don't know, maybe he isnt right for the deck, but Tattermunge Maniac is really good.

[Pienterekaak]

i think we should not include it, the other creatures are better than him

[kicks_422]

Yup. What he said. And a 2/1 in a format with lots of creatures is not really SICK.

[tyrcho]

20 creatures :
lavamancer
kird ape
mogg fanatic
keldon marauders
tarmogoyf

20 burn
magma jet
light bolt
chain light
rift bolt
fireblast

20 lands
8 red fetch
1 forest
4 taiga
7 mountains

side :
4 krosan grip
3 shattering spree
4 price of progress
4 sulfuric vortex


I tried to change the decklist to include fewer lands (18) but my tests have shown that this list is by far better. Fewer lands is really a liability if the opponent can steal tempo with stifle/wasteland/trinisphere.

And most cards from the side increase the curve so you really need your lands post side.

For reference here is the list I tried (the side stayed the same) :

20 creatures :
lavamancer
kird ape
mogg fanatic
keldon marauders
tarmogoyf

22 burn
4 magma jet
4 light bolt
4 chain light
4 rift bolt
3 fireblast (-1)
3 flame rift (+3)

18 lands
8 red fetch
1 forest
4 taiga
5 mountains (-2)

[tyrcho]

Is noone playing this deck anymore ?

I played my usual list 20 lands /20 burn /20 creatures at the local tournament.

round 1 : casual reanimator deck, I quickly kill him in 4 turns twice,finishing with fireblast.
round 2 : psychatog with Intuition/accumulated knowledge (control deck), very quickly disposed as well. Game 2 I get double PoP in response to his brainstorm.
round 3 : Ugr thresh (no waste/stifle/spell snare, but mental note/counterspell and 3 dragons)
g1 he draws about 4 lands in a row and gets burned out and overrun by marauders
g2 and g3 he has the perfect thresh game with daze, counterspell, FoW my threats and 2xmongoose and burns for the win
round 4 : dragon stompy (2x petal lotus replaces chrome mox, 3x trinisphere and chalice maindeck, 20 creatures). He mulligans 3 times in 2 games, and never gets neither a chalice nor a trinisphere. G2 I had 2 krosan grips and 1 spree so it takes a while to complete but he only got 1 dragon as a real threat.

I finished third and got a cunning wish.

I played some games with the winner (U control deck with ancestral, 2 CB, 3 top, 4 goyfs, 1 rude awakening, 24 lands, maindeck 2 threads of disloyalty and 2 vedlaken shackles, tolaria west toolbox : explosives, ruins, miren)
G1 I get too much burn for him to handle
I side fanatics for krosan grips.
G2 he gets double threads and steals my lavamancer and activates it (he splashes 1 UR land) and gets control with 2 goyfs on table with still about 8 life
G3 he stabilizes with double shackles (1 got gripped) and miren.

I still think this deck is strong in a no combo meta, but I need more practice against red thresh, in testing I already losed more than 50% against it. They don't always have countertop post side (he didn't) so grips can be dead cards. They can also out aggro you with their untargettable mongeese and burn. PoP is good but only deals them 4-6 damage and usually 2 to you.

[zander1]

Is noone playing this deck anymore ?


I play it every wednesday at a tournament, but my list didn't change very much.

Grats on the third place!

[Thrasher]

What about terminate?i am trying it as a 2 of, in my meta(full of goyfs,tombstalkers and noughts) is so good.

[Ghostfire45]

I am currently building this deck.

Here is my list

Main Deck
60 cards

4 Taiga
4 Foothill
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
5 Mountains
_________________
18 lands

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Keldon Marauders or Meta/ Personal choice (river boa, blood knight, ect)
_________________
20 creatures

4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Rancor
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
________________
22 other spells

Sideboard

4 Tin-Street Hooligan
3 Price of Progress
4 Krosan Grip
4 Vexing Shusher

________________
15 sideboard cards

I play River Boa main since Thresh is a bad match-up and this guy owns the hell out of them. The rift bolts are sick since thresh can't counter them with counterbalance.

[Wallace]

About a month ago I was playing in a standard FNM tournament, I hate standard but I was bored and decided to play. Anyway, I had to play against one of my friend who was playing R/G beats. Tattermunge Maniac is SICK. I was playing Mono B control and this damn card just rocked me in the face. Has anyone tested him out in this deck? He seems incredible. Cutting the random 1-ofs or a few random burn spells for this guy seems like a decent idea. I don't know, maybe he isnt right for the deck, but Tattermunge Maniac is really good.

http://i17.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/ba/19/fc52_1.JPG<http://i5.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/ff/1b/15a1_1_b.JPG<http://i11.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/f0/03/c7c2_1.JPG<http://i3.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/00/37/2932_1.JPG

Yeah.

[Fuzzy]

Go Mountain Goat!

[Xurcks]

Mountain Goat >>>> Goblins

[grungyboy]

hello i'm new here...i'm planning to convert my r/g beats to goyfsligh..sirs i've got some questions:

1. how fast can goyfsligh win?
2. are the creatures to be used in this deck are strictly casting cost of 1 and 2?..it's because i'm planning to use casting of 3 and/or 4 creatures like magus of the moon, fulminator mage and avalanche riders..

i know these are kinda dumb questions but i just want to bes sure how i'm going to rebuild my deck..i'll appreciate any help i can get..thank you sirs..

[edgewalker]

Magus isn't that bad of an inclusion, but I'd probably scrap the mage and the rider since despite being on a body wasteland is just quicker than the both of them.

[Ghostfire45]

hello i'm new here...i'm planning to convert my r/g beats to goyfsligh..sirs i've got some questions:

1. how fast can goyfsligh win?
2. are the creatures to be used in this deck are strictly casting cost of 1 and 2?..it's because i'm planning to use casting of 3 and/or 4 creatures like magus of the moon, fulminator mage and avalanche riders..

i know these are kinda dumb questions but i just want to bes sure how i'm going to rebuild my deck..i'll appreciate any help i can get..thank you sirs..

May i be the first to welcome you. As a Sligh Guy i will answer your questions

1. Turn 3 or 4 consistantly and if built/ pilated correctly can still win if they take control.
2. Yes

No such thing as a dumb question thats why there are forums

If u have any more question feel free to ask and if u need a solid deck list i can re-post mine.

[Wallace]

hello i'm new here...i'm planning to convert my r/g beats to goyfsligh..sirs i've got some questions:

1. how fast can goyfsligh win?
2. are the creatures to be used in this deck are strictly casting cost of 1 and 2?..it's because i'm planning to use casting of 3 and/or 4 creatures like magus of the moon, fulminator mage and avalanche riders..

i know these are kinda dumb questions but i just want to bes sure how i'm going to rebuild my deck..i'll appreciate any help i can get..thank you sirs..

Welcome to the source!

Goyf sligh can win as early as turn 3, it is more likely to win on turn 5-8. The creatures you play should really depend on your meta and your style of play. Tarmogoyf is the only auto include, after that I think that Grim Lavamancer and Keldon Marauders are a must. I personally don't like Mogg Fanatic but a lot of other people do. Kird Ape, Quirion Dryad, Countryside Crusher, Magus of the Moon, Taurean Mauler and Skyshroud Elite are all viable choices. You need to pick what you think is best for you and then just play test the hell out of it.

Here is my latest list I'm testing, you can use it as a starting point:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Figure of Destiny
2 Countryside Crusher

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
3 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
2 Flame Javelin

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
10 Mountain

o yeah and...


...As the resident Sligh Guy...

:confused: Who are you?

[kicks_422]

I see Figure of Destiny in your list. How has it been doing? Has it often become 4/4 at least?

[Wallace]

I see Figure of Destiny in your list. How has it been doing? Has it often become 4/4 at least?

I have really just started testing it, I have dropped him turn 1 four times now and he made it to a 4/4 three times. FOD seems like a nice 1cc creature if he is dropped turn 1 or 2, after that he is almost always a chump blocker or a target for Mogg Fanatic/STP...I will keep the thread informed after I do some more testing.

[grungyboy]

thanks for the warm welcome sir wallace...thanks for the insights..i'll start reformatting my deck as soon as i get my hands on the goyfs and some bloodstained mires...sir, if i could include the fulminator and the avalanches(riders), how many should i put in the deck?...i'm not really that good with mana curves..coz i understand sligh follows a "strict mana" curve...

[kicks_422]

Fitting in an LD theme with Fulminator and Avalanche Riders won't make it Sligh anymore. If you want, you could read the opening post of this thread. There are links there to my opening post for the now-defunct Dryad Sligh, but the concept is still similar.

[Wallace]

thanks for the warm welcome sir wallace...thanks for the insights..i'll start reformatting my deck as soon as i get my hands on the goyfs and some bloodstained mires...sir, if i could include the fulminator and the avalanches(riders), how many should i put in the deck?...i'm not really that good with mana curves..coz i understand sligh follows a "strict mana" curve...


Kicks is right, by adding Ful. Mage and Avalanche Riders the deck is no longer Goyf Sligh. If you want to go the aggro/LD route the I suggest starting a new thread in the New decks Forum. A :3::r: 2/2 with haste isn't really that impressive and doesn't fit with the theme of the arc-type. Fulminator Mage has the same problem, :1::br::br: for a 2/2 is a waste of mana. For the same CC you could be playing Countryside Crusher or you could just spend less mana and get a better creature.

[grungyboy]

thank you sirs for the insights..i really cleared things for my "deck-reformatting"...i'll guess i better stick with the staples first...sirs, another question again...can you suggest any substitutes for chain lightning?i think i'll have a more difficult time looking for these here than Goyf...

[kicks_422]

Can we see your list to see where you're at?

Here are your options to replace Chain, without seeing your list first (assuming you run all these - Lightning Bolt, Incinerate, Magma Jet, Fireblast, Seal of Fire):

1. Rift Bolt - keeps the 3 damage, but you'll have to wait a turn. Personally, I don't like it, since I want my burn to hit right away.
2. Shard Volley - Also keeps the 3 damage, but losing a land hurts, especially in conjunction with Fireblast.
3. Shock - The baseline burn spell. This is actually my choice out of these three if I had to choose, just because I'd much rather have flexibility than damage.

Those are off the top of my head. I might be missing some.

[Hana, The Deadly Flower]

has anyone tested this deck with black, aka confidant?

[kicks_422]

Splashing for black for Dark Confidant (and possibly Duress/Seize/Therapy out of the SB for combo) has a lot of pros and cons. The power of these black cards really help the deck out a lot, but they somewhat slow your tempo down. Confidant is outclassed by the rest of the creatures in the deck in what you're trying to accomplish (e.g. slit throat). Instead of relying on Confidant to draw cards, I guess some have just relied on tuning the deck so that every card you draw counts. Playing 3 colors also opens you up to LD/Wasteland, which hurts the deck a lot with the low land count.

[Sims]

Yes, people have and some of them have liked it, others haven't. I personally don't like going into 3-color territory in Sligh. You'll begin running too many duals to support Price of Progress reliably without killing yourself, and you'll have to run at least a basic swamp. Getting away with 1 non-Mountain basic in :r::g: is fine, but adding another might muck up your consistancy and screw you while your opponent is at 4 or less and you have Bolts or a Fireblast in your hand that can't be cast because of said Swamp. Bob also sits at 2CC and draws heavy removal from your opponent because of his effect... On the surface this seems like a good thing, but then you realize that many of these Goyf Sligh builds pack it to Counterbalance (bob is right on the firing line there) and that if he's eating removal, while it's not aimed at your Goyfs or KMs, it's screwing your manabase so you can play ":1::b:: Target Player Discards a removal spell." Now, don't get me wrong, if he sticks he's fantastic. I just don't feel that he's worth the retooling of the manabase, potentialy losing our biggest burn threat, and sometimes screwing up our fireblasts in order to run a draw spell. Magma Jet has done me just fine up til now with card selection that I haven't really felt the need of him.


On the upside though, Black has a lot to offer between Discard spells to help your nearly non-existant combo matchup, Plagues if goblins has somehow been giving you trouble, Terminate even though it's not burn, Extirpate, etc... But all of these begin to require more of a hefty commitment to black, and at that point you're not playing Goyf Sligh, you're starting to turn into BRG Zoo.


Edit: Naturally, someone beat me to the post.

[Wallace]

has anyone tested this deck with black, aka confidant?


So I made top 8 on day 2 of TMLO with the following list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
3 Tarfire
3 Fireblast
2 Seal of Fire
2 Pyrite Spellbomb

4 Taiga
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

SB:
4 Duress
4 Price of Progress
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Krosan Grip
2 Seal of Primordium

I lost a close Thresh match up and to Goblins in the top 8. Fireblast or POP off the top and I win the top 8 match. I beat Enchantress, Elves, Thresh w/scepter, Landstill and drew with Tarmo Sligh to make top 8.

The deck played wery well and both matches I lost were close, any burn spell off the top and I win game two against the Thresh player. I am going to drop Quirion Dryad from my build. Was not impressed with it at all, always wanted it to be something else.

This was a while ago but still...

[grungyboy]

Can we see your list to see where you're at?



this my list sir:




LAND:

4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland/Stomping Grounds
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
2 Forest


CREATURES:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Keldon Marauders
3 Fulminator Mage

SPELLS:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Seal of Fire
3 Incinerate
3 Magma Jet
3 Shock
2 Fireblast

ARTIFACTS:

2 Sensei's Divining Top

SIDEBOARDS:

4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
2 Price of Progress
2 Tin-Street Hooligan
1 Shattering Spree




sirs,i know i said i'll stick with the staples and i'd keep out the LD parts but I really want to test this deck...and i saw other goyfsligh decks running wastelands and magus of the moon..personally i like fulminator mage more than magus of the moon because sure the magus locks deck in an instant but once removed by removal spells it goes to normal again..the mage however is always a 2 for 1...how much you look at it its always an advantage for you..i've seen it work with my Ponza deck and boy i'm giving them a hard time especially the Landstill guys :smile: anyways i'm just testing this form of the deck and if it sucks then i'll really stick to the staples...

thank you also for your suggestions for replacements for Chain Lightning...:smile:

[kicks_422]

Thing is, running Wasteland with only 18 lands total keeps you off of colored mana. Also, you want to be able to maximize your mana each turn, and Wasteland doesn't help you with that. Fulminator Mage, on the other hand, is just too bad of a beater to run. If he were 2cc 2/2, he could be up for consideration... But at 3cc, it's way too expensive.

Regular Goyf Sligh already has a pretty good MU against Landstill anyway. Resolve a Price of Progress and watch them cry.

[Wallace]

@ grungyboy

I think your list leaves a little to be desired. Goyf Sligh has some staples, cards that, IMHO, that should be included in every list. Here is that list:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
3-4 Price of Progress
3-4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast

4 Tarmogoyf
3-4 Grim Lavamancer

To me that is the starting point for any Goyf Sligh deck.

The mana base is really simple, it doesn't have any room for Wasteland or Factory's. The deck only runs 4 green cards in the MB and if you don't run Kird Ape, then those are the only cards that need forests. The board will have another 3-4 green cards, so running more than 5 green sources(4 Taiga, 1 Forest) isn't needed. The number of fetch lands is up to you, I like to run 6, they feed Lavamancer and get those Taiga's.

Goyf Sligh depends on it's low mana curve and it's high damage to cc burn spells. Don't muck up the deck with cards like Sensei's Devining Top, Avalanche Riders, Fulminator Mage and other spells that are to costly for what they do.

[Peter_Rotten]

So, has anyone been messing with Figure of Destiny? Word on the street is that he is goodz, but I have yet to really test him. BigBear just placed in Hadley with build that ran Figure and main Grips.

[kicks_422]

Is there any reason for playing him in this deck over Kird Ape? Ape comes down as a 2/3, while Figure needs a bit more mana investment, which would slow down the deck. Also, there are a lot of things I would want to do with 3 open mana, and pumping up a creature by +2/+2 isn't one of them. If the hand is exhausted to finally have mana to pay for the cost, changing a 2/2 into a 4/4 wouldn't exactly be game-breaking.

[Wallace]

Is there any reason for playing him in this deck over Kird Ape? Ape comes down as a 2/3, while Figure needs a bit more mana investment, which would slow down the deck. Also, there are a lot of things I would want to do with 3 open mana, and pumping up a creature by +2/+2 isn't one of them. If the hand is exhausted to finally have mana to pay for the cost, changing a 2/2 into a 4/4 wouldn't exactly be game-breaking.

I think he is worth testing, while there are a lot of things you want to do with 3 mana, what happens when you empty your hand? This guy gives you a way to spend that extra mana, he gives you another outlet. I will throw this together and test it with FoD, I mean the original Sligh decks ran Ball Lightning, so :r::r::r: should be no problem.

[kicks_422]

I think he is worth testing, while there are a lot of things you want to do with 3 mana, what happens when you empty your hand?

I already mentioned that. When your hand is empty, turning your 2/2 into a 4/4 wouldn't matter much, since you're probably on the way to losing/winning.

[Peter_Rotten]

I just Top8ed the Tropical Summer Event in Cuse (44 players). Before I get into details, I have to flat out say that luck was on my side A LOT for that Top8. Two other GoyfSligh lists made T8 and both of those were running FoD.

I was running a typical build but with 3 FoD, 3 Grims, and 3 KMs. Twice I played the mirror and beat both of them. Both mirrors ran Kird Ape.

So far, here is what I like and dislike about FoD:

Likes:
- Another turn one play
- A turn one play that prevents a Standstill from being played. (Kird Ape can get Factory chumped).
- Opponents usually must deal with him
- A better mid-game Top Deck than Kird Ape. Becoming a 4/4 is nothing an opponent can usually blow off.
- Opponents have been killing him like crazy. Less StPs aimed at my Goyfs. This also probably means one of two things: Opponents see him as a threat because he is OR they are overvaluing him (like sometimes we do with Bob).
- He does not force me to play an early Taiga and by extension, open me to nonbasic hate like Wasteland and Moon effects.

Dislikes:
- He is a weaker turn one play than KirdApe in specific situations like if I plan to play a 2cc critter on turn two. I've found him to be best when my turn two play can consist of dropping another 1cc threat and having the option to burn something OR pump FoD.
- He really gets killed A LOT. This, however, may not be an argument for Ape since the spells that were killing him would handle Ape also - StP, Mortify, and Bolts.

I think that this deck does not lack the early pressure spells like Ape, Grim, Fanatic, Goyf, KM, Bob, etc. What it needs to improve itself is flexible spells that are good early and are a decent topdeck. I think that FoD fulfills that role.

[Wallace]

Congrats on the finish P_R, I wish I knew what you looked like and I would have said hi. I wanted to play this deck but went with Dragon Stompy instead. I went 3-2 drop and decided to hang at the fair.

I too like FoD and plan on running him over Kird Ape. I love the fact that Goyf Sligh is back in the DTB forum and on the rise. Do you have the list you ran, of a list of the MU's you faced?

[Peter_Rotten]

Report here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10917

List:

Burning Tog
Spells (41):
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Keldon Marauder

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

2 Krosan Grip

Lands (19):
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
8 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard (15):
4 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Price of Progress
2 Vexing Shusher

My Board was OK, but my main deck has the possibility of 5 dead cards - PoP and Grips. I found that I was siding in Shushers just to have another body to beat with. I never needed the Clasms or the Crypts, but 4 Crypts are mandatory in all my SBs.

[Volt]

.

[bigbear102]

@ sideboard: I would definitely keep Pyroclasm in the board. I was playing Goyf Sligh at the same tourney as PR and only had 1 clasm in my board because of a last minute switch up. I would definitely have sided it in for 2 of my 3 losses, and think that it would have made a huge difference in my record.

FoD is definitely better than Kird Ape in this deck. I haven't played Kird Ape in this type of shell for probably 3 years now, so I don't think that's too relevant.

[Peter_Rotten]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10987

I did some experimenting with SDTop in Goyf Sligh. It's a pretty long post, so I gave it its own thread. In short, the jury is still out but the deck would need to be retooled a bit to run Top. Also, I doubt that I would run both Top and FoD in the same build.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I see some potential with the 2 new beaters from Shards

Woolly Thoctar the 5/4 guy for :w: :g: :r:

Wild Nacatl the 1/1 kirdape for :g:
Wild Nacatl gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Plains.
Wild Nacatl gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Mountain.

That forces of corse for a light white splash!

So that is my list that i have in mind:

Spells (41):
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Figure of Desteny
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Woolly Thoctar

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Helix
3 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress

1 Krosan Grip

Lands (19):
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswhept Heath
3 Plateau
1 Savanna
4 Taiga
4 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard (15):
4 Pyroclasm
3 Krosan Grip
2 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Price of Progress


The white splash offers some wride sb cards but i am not sure which and how much...
- Orimas chant: Cheap disruption against combo to buy a turn ftw.
- Mana Thite: Suprise counter!?

What do you think?

[Maagler]

I have not tested it so I cannot say for sure, but I think that the Woolly Thoctar is not good for legacy in particular goyfsliegh. I think his casting cost of three is too expensive, especially since he cost three different colors.

The other guy (Wild Nacatl) might have a place in the deck although once again probably not. The only problem I see with opening up into other colors is being more at risk to wastelands. Plus whites side options still IMHO don't measure up to the black splashes ability to drop bob and go to town.

Also I don't see how either of those guys would be played over figure of destiny, who seems to outclass both of the creatures and fits well into the deck as it is.

your build might be better for a slower zoo style with jitte and vial.

[PowrDragn]

I built an interesting version earlier today that went well in some test matches:

4 Figure of Destiny
2 Kird Ape
4 Tarmagoyf
3 Keldon Marauder
4 Mogg Fanatic
1 Jaya Ballard
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Wilderness Elemental

2 Rancor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
3 Magma Jet
2 Price of Progress

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
2 Forest
7 Mountain

Sideboard is still iffy:

2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Pyroblast
2 Shattering Spree


I'm sure many of you will balk at the creature base, but Jaya and the Wilderness Elemental have both been interesting. I won a couple of times, because they helped me break out of a bad situation against DragonStompy. I also figure that by some loose logic, if Price of Progress is playable main, then Wilderness Elemental can't be horrible.

Also, I like having the diversity in casting cost against counter/top scenarios. They usually don't hav emuch at three, so those serve as bailout cards sometimes. I also like Shucher in the board a lot. I'd love to find room for one or two main.

I also really like the rancor. I don't like it enough to want 4 in here, but the extra damage really does help the cause. It punches up the damage level while also giving you effectively a reuseable threat. They have a much harder time chumping your creatures.

I was looking for a build with a little more balance without destroying the power level. The only thing I might change is the Magma Jet for Rift Bolt.

[Zinch]

Skyshroud war beast is way supperior than wilderness elemental in an enviroment the last is good... so betwen the two, play the war beast

[rancOr_]

I would play Price of Progress always as a set of 4,they are amazing.

[Peter_Rotten]

Wilderness Elemental IS bad. Your opponent has to have 3 nonbasics in play to make him better than Skyshroud Elite. With one nonbasic in play, Elite is 2/3 and Elemental is 1/3. Keep in mind that savy opponents will be avoiding playing as many nonbasics as possible (it's no secret that GoyfSligh/Burn decks run PoP). This further weakens Elemental. For :1::r::g: I'd play BurningTreeShaman before that guy.

[PowrDragn]

Actually, both Skyshroud War Beast and Skyshroud Elite seem better than than the Elemental. I also like the fact that they aren't red. Thee are only a couple of situations where it should matter, but still.

And I totally forgot about those guys when throwing this build together.

[XSivPSI]

I'd play BurningTreeShaman before that guy.

Seems like a good idea. Make them pay a life to top, activate deed/explosives, recur artifacts/creatures (with the lands or genesis), wasteland or survival, activate manlands and what not...

[Julian23]

Seems like a good idea. Make them pay a life to top, activate deed/explosives, recur artifacts/creatures (with the lands or genesis), wasteland or survival, activate manlands and what not...

(Genesis is a triggered ability. Maybe someday I won't draw almost won matches because my opponents insist on calling a judge because of Genesis.)

[thischarmingman]

I have been trying a list that goes something like this:

4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Kird Ape
4 x Skyshroud Elite
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Quirion Dryad

4x Brute Force
3 x Berserk
4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Chain lightning
4 x magma jet

4 x Bloodstained Mire
4 x Wooded foothills
4 x Bayou
4 x Taiga
4 x Badlands
1 x Mountain

SB
4 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Tormod's Crypt
4 x Pyroclasm
3 x Red Elemental Blast

It is probably not the strongest build in the world but hell is it fun! The Brute Force work so well with the Quirion Dryads and are useful at building up to a huge berserk. I have swung in for 20 on turn 3 before with a boosted dryad, the tramply goodness is always funny. I think berserk is a great choice for the deck although it is hardly a budget choice, not that the deck is cheap to start with. The clasms are great in the SB as they rarely hit my own guys at all, especially good for dealing with empty the warrens/goblins/elves. The therapies are good against any combo I never really mind saccing a kird ape or similar as it buys me so much tempo. What do you guys think?

[Mantis]

Burning Tree Shaman is really good in this format. It deals a lot of damage as Fetching now costs 2 life and it basically destroys Top. It's a solid 3/4 body as well although the manacost may be a little bit prohibitive in this dec, but I really advise all the Goyf Sligh players to try this out. I once played against a Red ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh deck which packed these badboys and they kicked my ass. All of a sudden I had to Deed for 3 instead of 2 and my Top cost me life so I had to hope for topdecking a land (needless to say I was pretty low on life that game).

[Peter_Rotten]

Although I like BTS and will concede that he MAY be playable in this meta, I haven't tried him for a few reasons.

First, he is simply out-classed by most of today's critters. Many critters are bigger and come out just as early - Goyf, Tombstalker, Dreadnought, Doran, Terravore, and Crusher. Many critters simply provide more utility - Confidant, Grim, and Witness.

Second, against fetchlands, his ability is best used early. The opponent may already have - and be able to function on - three lands. He doens't solve Top issues; he just hinders them a bit.

Third, he hurts you also. Grim, Fanatic, SB Crypts, and your own 6-8 fetches now hurt.

Despite those negatives, I still have considered him, but ultimately my first listed reason prevents me from running him.

[Hanni]

Lands (20)
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Plateau
4 Mountain
2 Forest

Creatures (16)
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Woolly Thoctar

Spells (24)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Incincerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
3 Price of Progress
3 Krosan Grip
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tormod's Crypt

This is just an experimental list.

I really like the power-to-cost ratio of the new beaters in Shards. They are obviously not as good as Goyf, but still. Wild Nacatl is a 1cc 3/3 just like Nimble Mongose... it doesn't have the Shroud, but "gro'ing" to 3/3 is easier for Wild Nacatl in this deck; potentially turn 2. Woolly Thoctar is huge at 5/4 and gives the deck a solid 3-drop to round out the aggro base.

I like to run alot of Burn in my lists, since Burn is really good against alot of decks. 24 burn spells makes sure my creatures don't have many blockers and then goes straight to the dome as soon as the manplan is compromised.

I don't like FoD. It's versatile and makes functional use of dead mana sources mid-late game, but it's power-to-cost ratio the entire game is horrible. 1 mana 1/1's, 2 mana 2/2's, and 5 mana 4/4's just seems really bad to me. The deck should rarely, to never, be able to pay 11 mana for an 8/8 with mediocre abilities.

I still like Kird Ape... 1 mana for a 2/3 is still the biggest after Nimble Mongoose and now Wild Nacatl, and Mongoose grows too slow in this deck. Fetching for a basic Forest on turn 2 works pretty well in here since the deck runs alot of green. With all the burn in this deck, clearing blockers for a 2/3 to swing through is really good, IMO.

I don't run Price of Progress maindeck because of the 3rd color splash. The color splash probably isn't worth losing PoP, but that's why this is an experimental list.

The deck does seem a bit vulnerable to combo decks though, so I'm not sure what should be done to fix this. The maindeck cannot really afford to be weakened by adding in discard or anything. The sideboard can be fooled around with, Gaddock Teeg seems pretty good... but I don't know if it's enough.

The sideboard is just thrown together for now.

The deck has been playing well so far but I'll post more once I play some more.

[Peter_Rotten]

The current problem with "burn the blockers and swing" plan is that too often the blockers' asses require 2 burn spells. Burning Goyf and Tombstalker ain't easy and they seem to be everywhere.

Between Ape, Nacatl, and Thoctar, you are allowing any player running Wasteland (and to a lesser extent, Port) or simple LD to really mess with your beater plan. I think your EvaGreen match could become worse. I also hate removing PoP from the main.

I hate relying on my lands to make my beaters good. :mad:

[Hanni]

Well yea, burn isn't always going to be effective at clearing blockers if the opponent has Goyf or Tombstalker, but it's still an effective plan usually. The deck has 4 Woolly Thoctar's of its own to make up for creature size and Wild Nacatl + Lightning Bolt answers most of the aggro I see. Mostly, the deck just uses the burn in the first few turns against blockers and then goes to the dome after that; my list runs 24 burn spells and easily turns into a Burn deck if it needs to.

The weakening of the manabase is really dependant on metagame, really. If the metagame has alot of Wasteland, then yea. Blood Moon doesn't hurt the deck too bad though, and the only time Wasteland is going to do serious damage to the manabase is in multiples or in combination with other LD.

I think the white splash is worth playing around with for a while before dismissing. Eva Green does not seem like remotely large enough of a metagame concern to keep the deck away from 3c.

[Sims]

Unfortunately, I do not believe this deck is going to really improve much or become optimized more beyond a few meta slots or preferences without something truly significant being printed that is specifically R/g. Adding in a third color takes the deck more into the lines of Zoo and Boros with splashes, and while that may not necessarily be a bad evolution, it is however not Goyf Sligh. I honestly believe the deck is competitive as is when people aren't expecting it, as they just grow overconfidant then wonder why two bolts, a goyf, and a pop for 8 ruined their day.

What the deck truly needs is one of two things, if not both: A solid threat that is light on the mana requirements (1G/1R, 1RG, 1RR, 2G/2R) that has either a solid P/T Ratio or is medium sized with a relevent ability. BTS Falls into this category of medium sized with a relevant ability, and I think he's worth looking at even if 3/4 is smaller than 4/5, 5/6, and the like.

Two, the deck could really use more manipulation. Right now it has the classic deck strategy of Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.... but occasionally your lands get in the way and only 4 Magma Jet scrys will not save you. Magma Jet should never be removed from this deck, as the smoothing it provides is invaluable, but another 2 damage for 2 mana spell that maybe cantrips, or even a 2 or 3 mana creature that's in the 2/1 or 2/2 range respectively that cantrips would be of great help in providing both an additional threat and another card. Sylvan Library goes a long way in helping this problem, as I believe Matt has figured out, since tossing away life for cards is something this deck can often do... but It would be nice to have something, like jet, that fits the redundancy strategy of the deck a bit better than Library.

Anyway, this wouldn't be a post in the DTB forum without a list, so here is my current list:



4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauder

4x Card of Meta Choice.

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

Lands (19):
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
8 Mountain
1 Forest


Looks pretty standard. I haven't jumped on the FoD bandwagon yet as, well, I don't even own them and haven't done much playing with the deck lately as I've been focused on another project. The 4x Card slot could be FoD, or I typically bounced between either a split of Flame Javelin and Seal of Fire, or Hearth Kami. Particularly in New England where I play tournaments the most, Maindeck artifact hate is never dead. I ran Kami over TSH because I could actually play the card out and beat and not have to hold it in hand waiting for the Dreadnought or chalice to be played. Doing a split in that slot of Library and Grip wouldn't hurt either.

Anyway, that's my viewpoint on the deck. The lists can't really get much better than they are now (as most lists are only 4 cards off from eachother at most) without the printing of something else really significant that is focused in red and maybe a splash of green. Right now Nacatl and Thoctar are not those significant cards. Maybe for Zoo, but not for Goyf Sligh.

[Hanni]

I'm not sure your classifications of Sligh, Zoo, and Boros are completely accurate. It's a bit harder to measure than that.

I'm under the impression that Zoo decks tend to be more aggro than burn, while Sligh decks tend to be more burn than aggro. Boros is simply a classification for W/R weenie/burn decks, per the theme of Boros. Playing big green fatties and burn is more like Gruul than it is Boros, IMO.

Out of the different playstyles and gameplans, I think my list most closely relates to Goyf Sligh, although it does have some characteristics of all the decks mentioned.

[PowrDragn]

With this deck, what is your best plan against combo?

As far as I can tell, there's no way to keep them from going off or anything or disrupt them.

[Peter_Rotten]

With this deck, what is your best plan against combo?

As far as I can tell, there's no way to keep them from going off or anything or disrupt them.

First, the only combo deck that you really have any game against is Ichorid. Don't fear that deck, your match up is at least even with it.

If your meta is full of Storm/Belcher combo, put away GoyfSLigh. But, in fairness, your clock is at least decent and if Storm combo has a poor hand, you could win the race.

IMO, don't SB for storm combo. You're using a thimble to bail out a row boat.

[freakish777]

What the deck truly needs is one of two things, if not both: A solid threat that is light on the mana requirements

...

Two, the deck could really use more manipulation.

Has anyone bothered to test Countryside Crusher (I'm leaning towards cutting Mauraders in favor of "Big Country")?

Yeah, he dies to Lightning Bolt (frowntown). He sets up your draws (manipulation), and is a relevant threat (both the things being discussed in a single package). Also, he provides a 3cc card for attempting to get around Counterbalance in game 1.

How about the following (based off of PR's proven T8 list)



Lands (19, 2 more Bloodstained over 2 mountains from PR's T8 list, Bloodstained has slightly better synergy with Crusher and Sylvan Library)

4 Taiga
4 Wooded
4 Bloodstained
1 Forest
6 Mountain

Dudes (17, +1 FoD, +2 Crusher, -3 Mauraders, so overall curve goes up +1 mana)

4 Fanatic
4 FoD
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goyf
2 Countryside Crusher

Burn (21, -2 Chain Lightning, -2 on the mana curve, -1 overall)

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress

Green cards that aren't Tarmogoyf (4, +2 Sylvan Library, +4 on manacurve, +3 overall):

2 Krosan Grip
2 Sylvan Library (is good on it's own, additionally it sets up Crusher)


Overall manacurve is 51 (I count 4 Riftbolts as having an overall casting cost of 6, because you hardcast them about 25% of the time) compared to 48 of PR's list (average cmcs are 0.85 compared to 0.8). The only reason I bring this up is because Crusher has some dissynergy with the other 3cc slots in the deck if you end up getting Wastelanded/Ported/Sinkholed off of your third land and had wanted to cast another Crusher, Grip, make FoD a 4/4, or hardcast Rift Bolt. Additionally, if playing with Crusher it might be correct to go to 21 lands (cutting 2 Chain Lightning) and have the 2 additional lands be Barbarian Rings.

In any event, I think going to 8 "manipulation" slots (Magma Jet, Library, Crusher) is worth cutting 2 Chain Lightnings and in my opinion the worst creature in the deck (Marauders never does anything I want it to, and if it's just a 5 point burn spell, I'm winning anyways). Another minor synergy to point out is that Crusher feeds Lavamancer.

[jazzykat]

I was going to point out that trouble with opposing goyfs can be mitigated by Snuff Out and 1 or 2 black duals (granted that you will weaken your manabase), but if you are having trouble with Tombstalker...good luck. The only efficient thing I can think of is swords and that is totally not keeping with your tempo plan or manabase.

[Peter_Rotten]

Awhile ago I had done some brief testing with CCrusher and found that GoyfSligh's low land count too often left him as a 3/3 for 3. Although I like the card, I think that CCrusher is stuck in AggroLoam.

Late game, when the ground has stabalized and I'd like to dribble a little damage onto your grill, KM would be a better topdeck than CCrusher.

[freakish777]

Hm.

Perhaps you could go up to 4 Fireblasts then (it sounds a little risky)? Having a "Take 4, oh and by the way, I just combat tricked your Goyf off the board" seems worth the risk of going down to (potentially) 1 land (never to draw one again until they deal with your now 5/5 or larger guy).

I really do not like Maruader.

I'll do some testing on MWS when I get the time (I'm pretty busy at the moment) and let you know if I agree with your initial testing of "not enough lands in GoyfSligh for Crusher" assessment (some of my lists have run Barbarian Rings on top of the 19 lands you run).

[Wallace]

Hm.

Perhaps you could go up to 4 Fireblasts then (it sounds a little risky)? Having a "Take 4, oh and by the way, I just combat tricked your Goyf off the board" seems worth the risk of going down to (potentially) 1 land (never to draw one again until they deal with your now 5/5 or larger guy).

I really do not like Maruader.

I'll do some testing on MWS when I get the time (I'm pretty busy at the moment) and let you know if I agree with your initial testing of "not enough lands in GoyfSligh for Crusher" assessment (some of my lists have run Barbarian Rings on top of the 19 lands you run).

Keldon Marauders are amazing and IMO should always be played as at least a 3 of in this deck. He is a 3/3 for :1::r: that unless countered will always do 2 damage and has the potential to do 5. He trades an opposing Mongoose or makes a nice speed bump for Goyf. He is easy to get into the graveyard and there for feeds your Goyf's and Lavamancers...Play him, you won't regret it!

[freakish777]

Play him, you won't regret it!

That's the problem. I have played him. And I'm always left wanting something more. It's like dating that cute brunette you kinda have a thing for, but in the back of your mind you know you could be going out with a hot red head.

[chokin]

I think I agree that CCrusher isn't right for this deck. Yeah, by the time you have 3 lands you don't need more, but I think that the land count is too low.

I do like Mauraders. Why is no one running Slith Firewalker? I think he's pretty awesome. Keep the field clean and swing away. He gets to be pretty beefy pretty quick. Maybe he's too fragile though. He does get pwnt by Geese pretty hard and lategame he looks worse. Anyone have thoughts on this?

[adrieng]

Has anyone tested tombstalker in goyf sligh :
I have little tested a version with both dark confidant and tombstalker :

I find it good cause you are always the aggro player so you don't really care if you lose once eight points of life. And he is so good like confidant.
The bad news is that you haven't got PoP which is devastating.
As far as I am concerned, either play R/G(for PoP) or R/G/B(for both tombstalker and dark confidant maybe snuff out or thoughtseize if we cut confidant).
White doesn't give a lot I think : we don't need vanilla 2/2 3/3 for one and the 5/4 for 3 seems ok but not as good as stalker.
Ok the list I am testing so far is :



20 lands (12 fetch, 4 badlands 2 taiga 2 bayou)

4 dark confidant
4 tombstalker
4 keldon marauder
4 goyf
4 kird ape (one of the worst card)

4 bolt
4 rift bolt
4 chain lightning
2 flame javelin
4 magma jet
2 lava spike


No side yet still testing...

[Wallace]

...I have little tested a version with both dark confidant and tombstalker...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/KQ6WQ/A-Bad_Idea.jpg

[Happy Gilmore]

at that point I would just play Red Death (with Tombstalker). Burn and big black men...I mean creatures...

[adrieng]

How is it a bad idea? Playing both hasn't been a problem for me with THAT DECK.
I mean yes in eva green it is bad cause you are not as aggro as burn sligh.
But in burn sligh you are the aggro deck in most of the games so losing eight life is not a huge problem.
Do you know that in extended aggro(domain zoo) decks where playing fetchlands+ lands that makes you lose two life not to come tapped?
Usually they are losing at least 6-8 life with that and it was not a problem.
It is the same with dark cofidant + tombstalker.
I also heard that in standard some decks where playing greater gargadon(as a 4 off) and dark confidant.

[Wallace]

How is it a bad idea? Playing both hasn't been a problem for me with THAT DECK.
I mean yes in eva green it is bad cause you are not as aggro as burn sligh.
But in burn sligh you are the aggro deck in most of the games so losing eight life is not a huge problem.
Do you know that in extended aggro(domain zoo) decks where playing fetchlands+ lands that makes you lose two life not to come tapped?
Usually they are losing at least 6-8 life with that and it was not a problem.
It is the same with dark cofidant + tombstalker.
I also heard that in standard some decks where playing greater gargadon(as a 4 off) and dark confidant.

IDK man, run it if ya want, this deck seems to be having some success without the black splash. I love running Dark Confidant in Goyf Sligh, but it's the only black card I will run in the Main board. The black splash adds some sideboard options though. Extirpate, Thoughtseize/Duress and E. Plague are a nice surprise for an unsuspecting opponent.

[Mirrislegend]

Someone hitting a Tombstalker with their Confidant was the game winning play. For me. Got me a 'goyf. He got nothing. It WILL happen to you. I'm behind Wallace on this one, some things are just bad ideas.

[raharu]

While I'll the first to say that if you want to play RGb agro go run RGb Zoo, but I'd just like to interject that Dark Confidant and Tombstalker aren't that big of a deal in the same deck, even without deck manipulation. I've been playing them (4 DC, 3 TS) in BW agro-control for what feels like forever and have only flipped a TS 3 or 4 times, one of which was when I had 2 Confidants out while trying to out CA a rouge control deck. It's not as large a problem as you make it seem.

[kicks_422]

What problems exactly does Tombstalker solve for Goyf Sligh? By the time you can delve it out, you should already be within burn range.

[bigbear102]

Tombstalker deals with opposing Tombstalkers, that's about the only reason I could see for running it. I really don't think it's worth it.

As far as a black splash, Confidant is about the only MD card I would play, with maybe Snuff Out in the board. I like Crypt better than Extirpate anyway, so that doesn't make the cut. And with black splash you are in danger from your own PoPs, so I wouldn't think it's worth it.

@ storm combo: I actually beat TES 2-1 in Hadley, and it was Bryant. The match isn't quite as bad as it would seem. If they have City as one of their lands, that's usually a bolt by the time the game is over. If they go for Warrens, you race them. If they go for Tendrils, then you hope they are playing draw-4's. Bryant went for Warrens in games 1 and 3 and I raced him. Tendrils in game 2 was a no-go. It's not a horrible match-up, and the problem is that if they go off turn 2 you lose, so any hate you bring in is usually dead.

[zander1]

Well, this is my latest bild of Goyfsligh:

Lands(22):
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Badlands
1 Bayou
5 Mountains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mishra's Factory

Creatures(19):
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Grim Lavamancer

Spells(16):
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

Artifacts(3):
3 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Blood Moon
3 Price of Progress

This deck plays 15 Creatures my opponent(aggro or control) has to deal with, because if a Crusher, Goyf, Confidant or Lavamancer sticks, it's pretty much the game. I like the Factories and the Jitte, because they can deal with silver knights,...

I also really like the 15 cards sideboard plan against Threshold and Landstill.

What du u guys think???

[freakish777]

I'm liking Countryside Crusher better than Keldon Marauders (and I think Library + Crusher is redic as is Fireblast + Crusher). However, I think if I were to run GoyfSligh at a tournament I'd only play 1 Crusher and play 20 lands. Something like:

//20 lands
4 Taiga
8 Fetch
1 Forest
7 Mountain

//16 creatures
3 Grim
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Goyf
4 Fanatic
1 Crusher

//22 burn spells
4 Fireblast
3 PoP
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
3 Chain Lightning

//2 Manipulation
2 Sylvan Library


As much as I hate to say it, I think Chain Lightning is less powerful in this metagame then Rift Bolt is (thanks to Counterbalance), so if I were figuring lots of Counterbalances, Humilities, Moats, etc, I'd switch some number of Chain Lightnings for Krosan Grips in the main.

[Wargoos]

I' thinking about building a rg beatz as well, but somehow it seems that it just has bad mu's; cb-ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, survival, combo, seems all bad for this, even the landstill mu is just quite even, maybe a lil in beatz favor. So could you please explain which mu's are good and which are not?

So far my list would look like this:

3 Figure of Destiny
3 grim lavamancer
4 keldon marauders
3 fanatic
4 goyf
4 confidant
3 fireblast
4 bolt
3 magma jet
3 pop
4 chain lightning
3 rift bolt
3 mire
3 foothills
3 taiga
1 badlands
1 forest
8 mountain

side:
3 shusher
3 grip
1 gaea's blessing
4 tormod's crypt
4 slots (maybe choke's or needles)

Any advices?

[Peter_Rotten]

First, your combo match will be bad. End of story. There is currently nothing you can do about it. (Except Ichorid - that should at least be even and probably better)

Second, the Landstill match improves with more PoPs but is also highly dependent on their SB hate. They have a ton of crippling options against you, and you'll have to guess what to board in against them to counter that hate. Are the SBing in the white Planeswalker - then burn is good. Are they SBing in Chill or CoPs? Then Grip is good. Are they SBing in Pulse of the Fields? Then you have to mana burn yourself. Are they SBing in more critter hate? Then you could consider siding out critters in an attempt to give them dead cards. Lastly, I haven't tested it yet, but I'd guess that Sylvan Library is great against them.

Third, your Thresh match is dependent on the build. What colors are you running into? For example, if you are running your 3 color build against Tempo Thresh that plays Sitfles and Wastelands, you will likely have a bunch of trouble.

Fourth, your Survival match is also build dependent. What cards are they running? Essentially the cards that you HATE to see in typical Survival builds are any of the traditional life-gainers like Spike Feeder, Ravenous Baltoh, Elephany dude, and now Kitchen Finks. It's also annoying when they Shriekmaw your Goyfs. Remember that is almost always the right play to kill their first turn mana dude (BoP, elf, whatever). Next, you need to decide if it's worth SBing in Crypt to prevent any of their Genny, Squee, Anger nonsense.

Edit - FOUR MAGMA JETs or go home. Seriously. The card is so good that I've been running 6 and hoping I don't play against DeckCheck.*



*not really.

[Wargoos]

Thanks for the fast answer.
Well, i think every ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh Variant is bad news for us, if they play counterbalance, isn't it?
They will shut us down or at least slow us down, which is both not good for a aggro deck.

Can i see your recent Beatz list P.R.?
I have no idea about a sideboard so far, just the standart stuff in there.
But i feel like i have sb cards which are good agains decks, i'm good against anyway.

As well, i'havent big standart experience and cannot tell how good the Figures are. Would you run them above the apes?

[Joon]

Against Counterbalance and Chalice, which are your biggest problems, the newest techs are Maindeck Krosan Grip and/or Maindeck Vexing Shusher.

The obvious pros and cons are that Grip can be a dead card but it FUCKING SOLVES YOUR PROBLEM NOW. Shusher is never dead as he can actually influence the board as he is a creature. But being a critter can suck, too. You know. Removal.

You can often enough race the Balance and finish with Blasts/Rift Bolts when it's set up. Chalice is the bigger bitch as it needs no setup.

I tested both, Grip and Shusher, and tend to like Grip more for the reasons I wrote above. The FUCKING SOLVES YOUR PROBLEM NOW part of it.

EDIT: Figure is imo > Ape, just because opponents tend to ignore Ape in the later game. Ignoring Figure can be devastating and opponents tend to aim removal on him immidetialy which lets your Goyfs and Mancers go for the dome.

[Peter_Rotten]

I'm starting to develop the controversial opinion that CounterTop is a bit overrated against us. Our critters come down early - and particularly a turn 1 FoD laughs at CB. Some typical good but basic plays against CB include the following:

Wait until the opponent casts something - the less available mana he has to spin Top, the better for you.

Cast your Burn spells in response to him spinning top. Do this when you have burn spells with differing CCs - like a Bolt, Jet, PoP, and a Fireblast.

A great set-up is to suspend Rift Bolt and to check next turn if Grip will resolve. If it get's countered with a 3cc spell, then obviously you need to Grip at a different time. In fact, suspended Rift Bolt is your friend in general against CB.

I've found that sometimes weaker players drop CB and Top and expect the GoyfSligh player to scoop-it-up-buttercup. It's not always easy, but is very possible to win through CB. Have I lost because of it before? Yes. But, I've also pulled out a win.

Here's close to my current list:

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Figure of Destiny
3 Keldon Marauder

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
3 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress

2 Sylvan Library

2 Krosan Grip

Lands (19):
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
8 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard (15):
4 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Price of Progress
2 Vexing Shusher

I'm trying to fit in a 3rd FoD, but I'm unsure as to what to cut.

edit: I just want to point out that I completely agree with Joon's post above.

[Wargoos]

Why don't you cut a fanatic? Seems like a good trade.

I wanted to make about this CB thing because i used to play ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh a lot. And i've lost to Beatz rarely, that was just my point.

Somehow it appear's that to make Beatz really good you have to be a skilled player and definitly know the deck. Sounds definitly good to me.
I'll try your build, just to see how the Libraries are doing.

[kicks_422]

This isn't "Beatz". This is Goyf Sligh. There's a fine distinction between the two, particualrly equipment/Rancor and bigger creatures on R/G Beats.

[Wargoos]

Well I just quote P.R. beginning post on page 1:
What is Goyf Sligh? Goyf Sligh is a traditional RG beats deck – little men and burn

[raharu]

This isn't "Beatz". This is Goyf Sligh. There's a fine distinction between the two, particualrly equipment/Rancor and bigger creatures on R/G Beats.
This reminds me of a discussion that was had in the old Dryad Sligh thread, IIRC, about Rancor, and, somehow by proxy, Blood Knight. Two questions:

1) is Rancor a bad idea? It makes just about everything threatening, but it suffers, to an extent, from the creature aura problem. I think that for all it does it'd be okay to try it, but I'm tinkering with BDW right now and hate the thought of 3c agro decks.

2) What about Blood Knight? I'd think that it would only be playable with Rancor, but still it's a question that has been bouncing around in my head to some extent or another for a while now.

[PowrDragn]

I wouldn't mind having Blood Knight over the Marauders. You're giving up a couple of points of damage though.

Interesting decision.

[Phthisisity]

i have to agree with rotten. i have found that counter-top is insufficient to ensure a victory against us. we have alot of odd casting cost that cheats right around it. i have also gotten in those last points in more with barbarian ring than with anything else.

the one thing i have been testing to moderate success is the inclusion of burning-tree shaman in the krosan grip slot. i found that while grip was a asset in most matchups i found it to be dead sometimes. my search for something that was good against counter top but still not dead in other matchups turned this up. i have been liking this alot. the simple effect of making fetches cost 2 life has been awesome.

[Wargoos]

How many BTS do you run then? I think you need at least 3 copies.

[PowrDragn]

Under that logic to esae some concerns, would it be worth playing:

2 Barbarian Ring
1 Keldon Megalith

OR

2 Barbarian Ring
1 Shivan Gorge


Either setup would give you some consistent options against countertop.

[Phthisisity]

i have been running 3 bts myself.

also i have not been running either megaliths or shivan gorge, i found that 3 barbarian rings is the number. even though it lacks synergy with lavamancer, fireblast gives you quick threshold that ends games in a hurry.

the reason i don't play megaliths is that you almost never have no cards in hand. you hold fireblast till the last second. so at most you will get one activation out of it.

[Muradin]

So lately I played Peter_Rotten's old Goyf sligh list in a 27 participants tournament and got 3rd in it.
I won against Dreadstill, Cephalid Breakfast and Counterslivers and had intentional draws with Aggro Loam and another guy to get into top 8.

In the Top 8 I defeated an other Aggro Loam player 2-1 (Dreams ftw.) and after that lost 0-2 to the Dreadstill variant I had beaten 2-0 before.

What I experienced is, that Figure of Destiny is really good in this deck, because it can be used to apply early pressure and is still a threat later on.
Then I think, that 19 lands is actually not enough. I had to mulligan 6-7 times in the tournament because I didn't draw a land at all or a hand with one land but several cards costing 2 mana. While I even kept those with not more than one cc2 card and a fetchland or mountain I still got annoyed by having to mulligan so often because of manabase issues. 20 lands should be played imo.
Then for me Price of Progress has been the best burn in this deck, because most of the time it dealt a minimum of 4 damage, even if my opponents were trying to make it less harmful by fetching basic lands and so on. Therefore I can't see why one should only include 2 of them in the latest list posted.

About the sideboard I think that Smash to Smithereens is probably better in this deck compared to Shattering Spree, as the goal of the deck is to kill your opponent quickly. Of course some cards like chalice must be handled as well, but if there is a card doing that while still lava-spiking your opponent that really should be played.

Otherwise for me this deck was real fun to play and many of my opponents underestimated it and saw it more or less as a pile of crap.

[tyrcho]

I've been playing goyf sligh in a major french tournament (>200 people), expecting few combos to come.

Here is the list I played and I am totally convinced by it :

20 lands
8 red fetches
8 mountains
4 taiga

(the basic forest was more often a hindrance than some help in my tests, especially after replacing kird ape with figure)

20 critters
4 figure
4 tarmogoyf
4 grim lavamancer
4 mogg fanatic
2 keldon marauder
2 crusher

20 burn
4 fireblast
4 lightning bolt
4 chain ligthning
4 magma jet
2 rift bolt
2 flame javelin

I was always almost satisified during my tests with the 20 lands manabase but was feeling I was lacking some late game against some control decks which stabilized around 4 life, or against other aggro decks.
Figure was already a great replacement for kird ape especially against control.
So I also added 4 cards at 3 mana (I tested with more and found it too slow) which replace the weakest cards in my opinion. Crusher with 4 fireblast and 8 fetches is still quite good. It also combines nicely with magma jet. And flame javelin can be a great finisher, a goyf killer in some cases, and is not a target for CB.

I went 5-3 at the tournament, placing 38th. I think I could have won the last round against landstill but got overconfident and made a misplay (krosan grip twice the mishras instead of keeping it for a later humility).

I lost against counterslivers (he finished top4, was sligthy more aggro than me and got 2-1 thanks to dice, 3 very close games) and red thresh (my friend playing the deck I built for him, he got 2 perfect hands with all answers and fast threshed mongooses).
My wins were against eternal garden (1950 player, his friend with similar deck made top8), goblins, rock, eva green, its the fear, all quite easy except eternal garden who almost locked the first game but was 1 mana short.

My sideboard is still the same :
4 price of progress
4 krosan grip
3 shattering spree (did not use them since I avoided stax, dragon stompy and affinity)
4 sulfuric vortex (deadly against any control deck)


Btw, I won a smaller tournament (17) with a similar list (was testing the 3 mana cards), winning against goblins, painter (with maindeck forcefield), elves, red thresh (he made top 8 at the big tournament with his same deck) and losing only to belcher.

[Frid]

You guys should add dark confidant and magus of the mooon...

Here is list, in my meta there are a lot of landstill thats why i use so much non basic hate.

Burn

4 Lightning bolt
4 Chain lightning
4 Incinerate
3 Price of progress
2 Magma jet

Creatures

4 Dark confidant
4 Kird ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Mogg fanatic
4 Magus of the moon

Other

4 Rancor

Lands

3 R/B Fetch
4 R/G Fetch
4 Taiga
1 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Badlands
4 Mountain

SB= Depends on your meta i use to add krosan grip, street hooligan Pyrostatic extirpate pilar etc

You guys should add black for dark confidant, ah and imo lavamancer is the shit

[proraptor]

My list
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quirion dryad
3 Grim lavamancer
4 mogg fanatic

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
3 fireblast
4 magma jet
3 seal of fire
4 lava dart
3 tarfire
2 incinerate

4 taiga
4 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained mire
7 mountain
1 forest

the only thing I might change is swapping to 3 incinerate and 3 lava dart, because there is a little to much mana screw.
I am now playing 3 grim lavamancer and I'm liking it because you only need 1 on the board the second one is mostly a dead card.
I'm playing tarfire, because my gameplay is to play for example a dryad in turn 2 and pumping him up with a lava dart and by this gameplan I also use tarfire low cost spell to pump up dryad and goyf plus throwing in 2 more damage from the spell it self.
it works perfect because if you play dryad early game and goyf mid you have 2 5/5 critters give or take in the mid game beating the opponent.
Seal of fire is also a good card mid and late game to give your goyf more power and keeping the treat of removal for your opponent!

[manugl84]

This list won a 47 people tournament in Madrid (Spain) on September, 21.

4 Figure of Destiny
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Taiga
7 Mountain
1 Forest

Sideboard

3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Scald
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Gaea's Blessing
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Pyroclasm
1 Vexing Shusher

I think it´s very well balanced
Thoughts?

[Illissius]

Hmm. Scald. Did everyone just forget about this card? It seems pretty good.

[sligh16]

hi, i tested the deck, and heres my build:

4 mogg fanatic
4 figure of destiny
4 grim lavamancer
4 tarmogoyf
4 ball lightning :eek:

4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 magma jet
4 flame javelin
4 fireblast

4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mires
4 taiga
8 mountains

the ball lightnings are simply great imo. they put the pressure on your opponent, and the are unlikely to be countertoped. many times, they will go in for 6 damage, because your opponent wiil not exchange their tarmogoyf in the early game. in the late, they will killa tarmo or a crusher, and deal 1 point to your opponents head.

the only sad thing for me is to leave out the cuttest card of all Magic: Jackal pup (i just love the ambientation text):cry:

[Happy Gilmore]

Umm...no kird ape or PoP? Epic fail. If this was in the open forum that would be one thing, I would probably let this go. However, because this is in the DTB forum I have to say that the list your proposing is bad for the same reasons that Goyf Sligh is good. You have not taken advantage of anything that running just RG provides; Kird Ape, PoP being the #1 reason to run this deck in a legacy format. Your also not running a basic Forest which is neccessary. 4 Fireblast is too many for sure, and Flame Javelin is too slow. If you want to suggest Ball Lightning do so, but give your reasons and feedback of any testing you have with it. A list is not neccessary to illustrate your point, and in this case makes your suggestion look bad.

Oh, and welcome to the source. Glad you joined? :confused: Sorry to be so harsh.