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Rinello
10-29-2007, 07:41 PM
Hi, I'm a new poster but I lurked this forum for quite a long time..
please forgive my english, 'cause I'm from Italy. :tongue:

I'd like to post my boros deck list with card by card analysis,
because I belive that Boros deck can actually WIN in legacy.

please feel free to comment (or to demonstrate that boros will never be competitive!)

ok, :cool: let's start:

4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magara of Corondor
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Isamaru, hound of Konda
4 Goblin Legionnaire
4 Savannah Lions
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Silver Knight
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Char
4 Knight of Meadowgrain

4 Plateau
4 Sacred Foundry
3 karakas
3 Flagstones of Trokair
6 Fetchlands

SB:
4 Tormod's crypt
4 Orim chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cryoclasm


now card by card:

4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Char

Looks to me like a good burn base.
i really love Helix, bolt is an auto 4 of and about char..
i love it when It brings Jotun, Werebear, shades &co to the 'yard.
notice that i play in a MASSIVE aggro meta.
Lot of White Weenie, Pikula and Affinity

4 Magara of corondor
actually I love Mangara, He (she?) can help me removing every treath,
while chump blocking and play with karakas to combo.
sometime I use it to attack (and humiliate my opponent ofc :wink: )

2 Jitte
This deck is very creatures based, so jitte is an auto include..
also my meta is full of jitte, so i can use mine to destroy other's.
(also there is sinergy with karakas)

2 Isamaru, hound of Konda
same as above, is just plain a good card and works perfectly with karakas.

4 Goblin Legionnaire
I love it, he is Mogg's Big Bro, he is always a threat, auto 4 of in a boros deck.

4 Savannah Lions
2/1 for W. Vanilla with Sharp Teeth (tm) !!

4 Mogg Fanatic
I just don't know, atm I like them to ista_kill Confidant
but I think that 2 Javeliners and 2 lava dart would provide card advantage while being more solid. I just don't know..

4 Silver Knight
auto 4 of. they survive very good, they are solid and usefull.
there is a dedicated slot to "drop 2 knight everlasting"..
I just don't know if I must drop silver knight for Blood Knight, White Knight, Holy Nimbus etc...

2 Jotun Grunt
they beat hard, and they are just 2.
I know, maybe this is not the right choice, maybe this is not a 2X..
Hope this forum helps!

4 Knight of Meadowgrain
Testing them resulted in a lot of "win more" situations.
they are good, but less reliable. Colour protected knights maybe will be a better choice. Maybe Vial could serve me good too.

4 Plateau
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Karakas
3 Flagstones of trokair
6 Fetchlands

About manabase.. I dropped wastelands: This deck is too much colour dependent.. also i removed 4 molten rain because I'd rather punch my opponent turning my creatures sideway than destroy his manabase.
flagstones are just a test, while 3 karakas are very good:
I have to protect myself from cataclysm and sink hole,
while bouncing opponent's Jitte and my Isamaru back.

SB:
Here is where I need help the most.
my meta is full of pikula, white weenie, with some red burn, solidarity and affinity..
So I think that cryoclasm, orim and swords to plowshares are just great..

------

About other cards I would like to try but I haven't tested yet:

-4 Aether vial
-4 Holy Nimbus/Blood Knight/Black Knight/ any cool drop 2
-4 Soltary priest (actually I don't like them much..)
-4 Oblivion Ring (Better than Mangara?? )
-4 Pillage/molten rain (they look like the best land disrupt)



also I have to emphasize that I's love to keep my deck as a 2 color deck.
(so NO please don't tell me how good B for confidant and U for brainstorm are good.. I know it, i just want to make the best Boros deck for my gameplay and my meta)

Thanks a lot for your suggestions,
Andrew "Rhino" Rossi.

Wallace
10-29-2007, 08:18 PM
First of all welcome to the source! Just so ya know this prob. belongs in the New Deck Forum.

I love playing BDW (Boros Deck Wins), I played it at GP Columbus to an 5-4 match record. I lost to Flash, Fish, Belcher, and Random Deck w/ main Board Worship and Silver Knights. I beat Burn, Goblins, Flash, Dead Guy Ale, and Bad Sliver Aggro. I know my list is closer to Zoo then BTW, but adding green is amazing. Your list looks ok but needs some improvment. Here is the list I ran at the GP and at Kadi's DLD 2:

4 Kird Ape
3 Watchwolf
3 Isamaru, hound of Konda
3 Savannah Lions
3 Jotun Grunts
3 Silver Knight

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Fireblast
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Platue
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Plains
1 Mountain

If I was going to play this deck again it would look something like this:

4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Isamaru, hound of Konda
3 Savannah Lions
3 Jotun Grunts
3 Samurai of the Pale Curtain

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Fireblast


4 Platue
2 Savannah
3 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Plains

ClearSkies
10-29-2007, 09:27 PM
For the Thread creator's list...

Where are the Chain Lightning and Fireblast?
Mangara seems like out of place in the Boros Deck...

Your Karakas are basically useless unless you draw a Mangara.

In an environment of Swords to Plowshares, wouldn't Blood Knight also be good?

Also, just because you are from Italy doesn't mean you can't follow capitalization rules. Apparently, capitalization for proper names in Italian is similar to English, at least described here: http://www.amadioinc.com/news01Q1.pdf

Rinello
10-29-2007, 10:04 PM
@ Sacearuse:
Thank You!
I really liked your Boros/Zoo RWG list, particularly Kird Ape and Tarmogoyf (Tarmo is a big menace, with no drawback) but I want to try the RW version a lot (with different lists) before changing to 3 color based deck.
I'll try as soon as possible with 4 chain lightning and 2 fireblast,
but I'd like to keep my deck full of creatures.
What can I kick out of the deck? Char and Mangara?
Char => 2 Fireblast seems fair.
but what about Mangara? is THAT bad? To me he's like a Mini_Vindicate..:wink:

@ClearSkies:
As You Can See From My First Post,
My name is Andrew and my Nickname Rinello: Hello!
Chain Lightning and Fireblast are, as You can see, OUT of my list.
Thank You for the notice! I'll try them both very soon, as Sacearuse also pointed out, they are a self include in a Boros Deck
(4X Chain Lightning and 2X fireblast)
About Karakas, as i said before, I think they are nice against some land removal, as a legendary permanent bounce (Jitte) and as a protection for my legendary creatures (Isamaru, Hound of Konda).
Blood Knight? Is very very good and I think I'll kick kithkin knight out for them.

Also, I am from Italy and I intend to use Your Capitalization rules as much as I can, trust me.
I'll never break a rule so important, I'll do my best, just have a little more patience, that's it.

Soto
10-29-2007, 10:06 PM
Karakas' new Oracle Text says that it only bounces legendary creatures. It's still a good card, but probably not in Boros.

Wallace
10-29-2007, 10:13 PM
@Rinello

Just so you know man, Nickrit2000 and I have both played a lot of Boros in Standard and Extended, I am the only one who has played it in Legacy. Adding green to the deck makes it so much better. Kird Ape is amazing and Tarmogoyf is, well its Tarmogoyf. If you want to run a st8 R/W Boros deck then try this:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Goblin Legionnaire
3 Isamaru, hound of Konda
3 Savannah Lions
3 Soltari Priest
2 Jotun Grunts

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Fireblast
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Platue
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Plains
2 Mountain

Rinello
10-29-2007, 10:28 PM
@Rinello

Just so you know man, Nickrit2000 and I have both played a lot of Boros in Standard and Extended, I am the only one who has played it in Legacy. Adding green to the deck makes it so much better. Kird Ape is amazing and Tarmogoyf is, well its Tarmogoyf. If you want to run a st8 R/W Boros deck then try this:

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Goblin Legionnaire
3 Isamaru, hound of Konda
3 Savannah Lions
3 Soltari Priest
2 Jotun Grunts

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Fireblast
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Platue
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Plains
2 Mountain


I'll try it very soon with green! 2 bad I sold my 4 tarmo (needed some ca$h) so now will be VERY hard to find them..

About your list: looks solid and fast, but I would like to know why Samurai of The Pale Courtain and Soltari Priest are better than Silver knight.
Also: Is Grim Lavamancer a bad choice? (obv if I don't play Samurai of The Pale Courtain) and what about aether vial?
Thank You.


@ Kuja: THANK YOU now I know that karakas is near useless :)
1 more flagstone and some basic lands will do fine i guess!

Wallace
10-29-2007, 10:41 PM
I forgot about Lavamancer, he goes in place of the 4 x Goblin Legionnaire. The Samurai of the Pale Curtain are amazing against so many decks, Combo is an auto loss for you so The Samurai are a big help. The Priest is a personal prefrance, silver knight fits too. You need to be running Orm's Chant or Abaynce in the board too. Goblin Legionnaire is nice in Extended BDW, not in Legacy though.

blitz
10-29-2007, 11:04 PM
Also, just because you are from Italy doesn't mean you can't follow capitalization rules. Apparantly, capitalization for proper names in Italian is similar to English according to here: http://www.amadioinc.com/news01Q1.pdf

The first instance should be an e, and the second instance would be better as this.

I always find it amusing when someone corrects another's spelling or grammar, and makes those same mistakes while doing so.

In the future, please proofread your post before hitting the submit reply button.

Anyway, I'm not so sure the Sacred Foundries are necessary, nor the full 8 fetch lands. Also, seeing as the curve is really low, is there room for Wasteland here, or will it just get in the way? It seems to have enough mana sources to support it, but I can imagine that a Wasteland and a Plateau in your first seven would be annoying if you wanted to get that Goblin Legionnaire or SotPC out on turn two.

ClearSkies
10-29-2007, 11:37 PM
The first instance should be an e, and the second instance would be better as this.

I always find it amusing when someone corrects another's spelling or grammar, and makes those same mistakes while doing so.

In the future, please proofread your post before hitting the submit reply button.

Anyway, I'm not so sure the Sacred Foundries are necessary, nor the full 8 fetch lands. Also, seeing as the curve is really low, is there room for Wasteland here, or will it just get in the way? It seems to have enough mana sources to support it, but I can imagine that a Wasteland and a Plateau in your first seven would be annoying if you wanted to get that Goblin Legionnaire or SotPC out on turn two.

Actually, they aren't the same. Anyways...

If you haven't noticed, barely any of the spells have colorless mana in their cost. Wasteland would seem like a bad idea here since it only produce colorless. Outside of Jitte, Wasteland can't use the colorless mana for anything.

Seems like Wasteland is a tempo lost to me.

Jsang
10-30-2007, 12:28 AM
Hello, I just join this forum as it is so informative.

Stick to the thread, I really like playing with Boros Deck, but I prefer the build which is closed to Sligh. In my experience (so far causal), I think the most successful part of the deck is its lightning fast speed which composed of cheap creatures and burn. Every time I just need to deal 8-10 damages with my dudes and burn the rest.

Here is my build of Boros,

Creatures (24)
4 Savannah Lions
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Legionnaire
4 Isamaru, hound of Konda
4 Dark Confidant

Burn (16)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Helix

Others (2)
2 Engineered Explosives <-- can be everything

Mana (18)
10 Fetches <-- fuel Lavamancer and thin deck
4 Plateau
1 Badland
1 Scrubland
2 Mountain

No StP please, I don't want to see my opponent gain any life, and Jittle is very strong but a bit slow for me. Green splash for Tarmogoyf is fetching but still not as worth as Bob for me. This deck is close to the old theory/ convention of Sligh, with a third creature/ burn/ lands ratio, counting some 'burn' creture. My build is far from perfect and I believe this deck has much room to improve.

Wallace
10-30-2007, 01:41 AM
Hello, I just join this forum as it is so informative.
No StP please, I don't want to see my opponent gain any life, and Jittle is very strong but a bit slow for me. Green splash for Tarmogoyf is fetching but still not as worth as Bob for me. This deck is close to the old theory/ convention of Sligh, with a third creature/ burn/ lands ratio, counting some 'burn' creture. My build is far from perfect and I believe this deck has much room to improve.

The Deck Needs STP, the little bit of life it might give your opponent is ok when you look at the alternative.



Anyway, I'm not so sure the Sacred Foundries are necessary, nor the full 8 fetch lands. Also, seeing as the curve is really low, is there room for Wasteland here, or will it just get in the way? It seems to have enough mana sources to support it, but I can imagine that a Wasteland and a Plateau in your first seven would be annoying if you wanted to get that Goblin Legionnaire or SotPC out on turn two.

You obviously don't know the history of BDW. The Extended versions of this deck run 12 Fetch Lands to 8 fetchable lands. The fetch's thin the deck way out, it allows you to draw the needed creatures and/or burn spells to win the game. Extended is where this deck gained it's popularity and where it thrived. Wasteland is a bad idea here due the the abundance of :w::w: spells.

zulander
10-30-2007, 02:10 AM
I played a deck very similar to this at a tournament and he splashed black for confidant and duress out of the board with orims chant for the combo matchup. With thoughtseize now legal I think this could be an ok choice for a random tournament.

Rinello
10-30-2007, 08:52 AM
@ Blitz:

Anyway, I'm not so sure the Sacred Foundries are necessary, nor the full 8 fetch lands. Also, seeing as the curve is really low, is there room for Wasteland here, or will it just get in the way? It seems to have enough mana sources to support it, but I can imagine that a Wasteland and a Plateau in your first seven would be annoying if you wanted to get that Goblin Legionnaire or SotPC out on turn two.

First of all Thank You for reading and reaply.
Foundry are necessary because they allow me to drop a Goblin Legionnaire or a Knight on the second turn. Imagine against Pikula (sometimes is the same against Affinity or Vial White Weenie or Goblin) :
turn1: Land, Isamaru, go. (Best scenario)
Pikula turn 1: Scrubland, Ritual, Specter/Confidant/Nantuko Shade/Tourach/SinkHole AND Duress.

If I don't drop a Threat on turn 2, I make me turn 1 drop near useless, because my opponent has been more efficent in his gameplay.
Also as You said, a lot of times while using wasteland I was bored because my drop 2 were stuck in my hand.Also consider that there are just 20 land in the deck, and a "first seven" with fetch, plateau and wasteland is worse in my opinion that -fetch-plateau-5 cheap destructive card with a lot of drop 2 creatures.
So as ClearSkies said before: "Seems like Wasteland is a tempo lost to me."
This is true most of the time (but sometimes Wasteland shines as one of the most powerful cards in Legacy)

@ Sacearuse:
About Samurai of the Pale Courtain.

The Samurai of the Pale Curtain are amazing against so many decks, Combo is an auto loss for you so The Samurai are a big help.
Can you please explain why is so great? (exept for it's "2/2 bushido 1 " skill, which is a great feat for this deck)

The Deck Needs STP, the little bit of life it might give your opponent is ok when you look at the alternative.
I tested Swords but I must suggest a scenario:
a creature, lot of times with a thoughtness of 2 or 3 is turning sideway against me.
I can 1) Burn her in great Sacred Pain of.. Dunno.. Helix OR
2) Make her go harvesting the great field of .. y'know, Swords to Plowshares.

In scenario 1 I lost a Burn spell, useful also against my opponent.
But in scenario 2 i have virtually lost TWO cards,because one is the burn spell /creature card that will re-balance the life gain to my opponent.
Also if there are no creatures in the field (thanks to my first strike guys or to my gameplay forcing my opponent to chump block everything) a StP in my hand will sit in place for the rest of the match.

Anyway Swords to Plowshares is very good because allow me to "1_mana_get_out_forever_NOW" kill a tarmo or a giga_nantuko_shade, and they are clearly cards to consider, and it can kill a silver knight or a Soltari Priest, and is very cheap in mana cost.
However I feel that most of the time a burn spell is just what it takes to send a Watchwolf to fetch some of his own bones.

Concluding if you think they are so great, and maybe they are in a Boros deck and of course I am wrong, you would suggest to put 4of in the Main?
(this leads to the next topic.. Sideboard for my Meta?)

kicks_422
10-30-2007, 08:56 AM
Samurai are a very good card with a very strange effect.
But atm I can see it effective only against Flash and Crucible/Life from the loam decks...


I LOL'd at that.

Maybe Samurai would be better off in the SB, since no way should you take out Grimmies. It's for Ichorid and Cephalid Breakfast (and Iggy Pop, if it sees play), since you were wondering.

StP should be in the SB as well, since a very aggressive deck never wants to give their opponent life in most situations. Goyfs can be outraced by the huge amount of burn and swarms of creatures that you run anyway. Side it in against reanimator, I guess.

Rinello
10-30-2007, 09:23 AM
I LOL'd at that.

Maybe Samurai would be better off in the SB, since no way should you take out Grimmies. It's for Ichorid and Cephalid Breakfast (and Iggy Pop, if it sees play), since you were wondering.

StP should be in the SB as well, since a very aggressive deck never wants to give their opponent life in most situations. Goyfs can be outraced by the huge amount of burn and swarms of creatures that you run anyway. Side it in against reanimator, I guess.

Thank you for Lolling then! :laugh:
I was kinda "d'oh" when i read Ichorid..
(about breakfast.. we don't have any in our zone atm and I don't know this deck much)
about the rest.. I think you read my mind because I have 4 stp in my side atm and use char (now fireblast) to slay tarmo.

cann0nfodder
10-30-2007, 09:55 AM
Just to clear this up for everyone, Samurai of the pale curtain only removes permanents from the game if they hit the graveyard. Permanents are cards that are in play. Meaning samurai could help against Ill-Gotten Gains if the player intended to return a lotus petal or a lion's eye diamond to hand. However, the card would do nothing to the combo player if he returned sorceries and instants after playing Ill-Gotten Gains. Also, Samurai of the Pale curtain does nothing to Cephalid Breakfast since milling cards into your graveyard is not affected by Samurai.

Rinello
10-30-2007, 12:15 PM
New List:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast

4 Blood Knight
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mangara <== testing
4 Goblin Legionnaire (soon replaced by 4 silver knight)
4 Lion
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Isamaru
2 Jotun Grunt

2 Jitte

Lands:

4 Plateau
4 Sacred Foundry
6 Fetchlands
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Battlefield Forge

SB:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Orim Chant
4 Disenchant
2 Tormod's Crypt

I think this manabase must be changed, because I want to thin my lands while as soon as I have 2 or 3 in play but I also need W/R because all of the cards are colour specific.
Also I don't know what to sideboard against White Weenie, Pikula, Solidarity and Affinity

ClearSkies
10-30-2007, 12:25 PM
Mangara really doesn't seem to help your goal at all. It cost 3 mana for a 1/1 that sits there.

Isn't your Blood Knight + Jitte enough to kill White Weenies?

Are there alot of Pikula, Solidarity, and Affinity in your Meta?
Well-timed Orim Chant and/or Red-elemental Blast could stop Solidarity.

Kataki, War's Wage might work... if Affinity is that relevant in your Meta.

Rinello
10-30-2007, 04:42 PM
I hope Jitte and Blood knight will be enough against a WW player with Luck always on his side..

I'll try 4 Orim Chant and 4 Red Elemental Blast to stop combo and affinity.

About Mangara.. you are right, it sucks a lot,
but I don't know what to use to destroy Jitte and/or Spectral Lynx or Nantuko Shade or Soltari Priest..
Also I see Grim Lavamancer as a win more, like Jotun Grunt.
But I guess I'm wrong, today I just tested against a "Stompy Pikula" (with Spectral Lynx)

Manabase Problem: Flagstones seems bad, Maybe 2 more fetch ?
Is Battlefield Forge worth?

Wallace
10-30-2007, 07:30 PM
I have been looking at the current meta and have decided that this would be the build I would play. You really need to look at chant in the Main board, its amazing! I have seen Nickrit2000 play his extended version of BDW many times, Chant was/is always good, sometimes winning him a game. Magus of the moon wrecks most decks in the meta and can be devistating if timed right.

4 Silver Knight
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Isamaru, hound of Konda
3 Savannah Lions
3 Jotun Grunts
1 Magus of the Moon

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
4 Orm's Chant
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Platue
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Plains
2 Mountain

SB:
4 Pyroblast
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Disenchant
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Swords to Plowshares

Barook
10-31-2007, 02:20 AM
Doesn't MD StP have a certain anti-synergy with your burn plan? Plus, what's your plan when facing Chalice or Counterbalance? Running something like Oblivion Ring or splashing black for Vindicate (among other things like Bob) sounds like a solution to this problem. I'm posting a list later when I have the time.

badjuju
10-31-2007, 05:10 AM
As much as I love this archetype, I really don't know just exactly what power level it carries. Other aggro decks that feature goyf really overpower all the creatures in this deck, meaning goyf will always result in a 2-for-1, and Boros can't afford that kind of damage.

I did a bit of research to see if there were actually any Boros decks that did well in tournaments, and I actually found a few (I wasn't expecting any at all). I think we should take a look at these list and follow their examples; they carry a few particular card choices that I see as very powerful in the current metagame. One card in particular is Price of Progress: undoubtedly the most dome damage you're ever going to get out of a 2cc burn spell. There are very few decks in the metagame that run solely on basic lands, so the card is rarely dead.

It's really late here, but you can find the decklists on germagic.de

Nydaeli
10-31-2007, 06:14 AM
Is it even a good strategy to fill your deck with one-drops at this point (Lions/Isamaru in particular)? I'm going to say no, since they'll just get stalled out by Goyfs and whatever, even with the burn you're running, and there are less Lackeys for them to block. (Look at the extended discussion of Carnophage/Sarcomancy in the Suicide Black thread for better reasons.)

Besides those creatures, what does white give you that green wouldn't? StP is a possibility but isn't synergistic with burn, as Barook mentioned. Jotun Grunt is hot, but so is Tarmogoyf. Lightning Helix is nice, sure, but Incinerate is good enough. Orim's Chant gives you a decent shot against combo, I suppose... I'm still not sure that the white splash is any good, though.

Mesercus
10-31-2007, 09:32 AM
Hi all. My first post in this community :smile:
I played a lot with this deck and i suggest to use fireblast and price of progress.
You need to be a fast as possible to win with white/red aggro so fireblast helps a lot and if you consider how many non-basic lands are used in this format Price of Progress it's really amazing.
This is a list of my deck

8x fetchland
4x plateau
4x mountains
4x plains

4x mogg fanatic
4x savannah lion
4x silver knight
4x goblin legionnaire
3x jotun
3x isamaru

4x lightning bolt
4x chain lightning
4x lightning helix
3x fireblast
3x price of progress

Barook
10-31-2007, 12:14 PM
Hi all. My first post in this community :smile:
I played a lot with this deck and i suggest to use fireblast and price of progress.
You need to be a fast as possible to win with white/red aggro so fireblast helps a lot and if you consider how many non-basic lands are used in this format Price of Progress it's really amazing.
This is a list of my deck

8x fetchland
4x plateau
4x mountains
4x plains

4x mogg fanatic
4x savannah lion
4x silver knight
4x goblin legionnaire
3x jotun
3x isamaru

4x lightning bolt
4x chain lightning
4x lightning helix
3x fireblast
3x price of progress

I like this build. It's very similiar to the build I worked on (minus the PoP) before I tried the splash black.
But I would rework the manabase. You have way too many basics (even with PoP) and from my experience, you will get your problems with Silver Knight and/or Fireblast sometimes. I would cut down the basics to 2 Mountains and 1 Plains and replace the rest with additional fetchlands (which also happen to feed your Grunts). That worked for me.

Mesercus
10-31-2007, 01:03 PM
Thank you fo the advice i've tried a new manabase setup and works very well.
Can support fireblast everytime :smile:

I tried also magus of the moon and i can say it's very bad here. It's a little slow for this deck and works only in the first round cause if the opponent leave one mana open for a stp in response or pay attention to counter it's useless.

laststepdown
10-31-2007, 05:09 PM
3 Savannah Lions
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Legionnaire
4 Silver Knight
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
4 Incinerate
3 Fireblast
4 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
3 Mountains

15:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 StP
4 Shattering Spree

I used that to top4 the columbus GPT a while back, pre-Flash. I think the meta has shifted back to where it used to be until that bomb dropped, so I figured I'd post this now and see what people thought. I lost in the semi's to Trinket/Angel with Swords and Jittes on a sideboarded Silver Knight, and I had run Orim's Chant over Swords to Plowshares in that tourney, and never saw a Shattering Spree games 2 or 3 that match. Regardless, it is quite a fun mindless deck, Jotun Grunt is randomly amazing, and the manabase is the worst for a 2 color deck ever thanks to Fireblast. Fetchlands are all different to keep from Pithing Needle nonsense, duh. Ten of them. What.

Also, Fireblast was *this close* to being Isochron Scepter, and having 4x Orim's Chant main. Because I'm a lucksack. I'd like to fix the board to adjust to the current meta, but I don't even know where to start. Thank you and good night.

kirdape3
10-31-2007, 09:02 PM
You know, honestly the marginal cost of adding green is almost zero (green adds Tarmogoyf), and black is only slightly more (Confidant, Duress, Therapy, Thoughtseize). It requires that you take away a little of your color requirements, but you add a good deal of combo defenses.

Such as:

4 Kird Ape
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Mogg Fanatic
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
4 Lightning Helix
3 Cursed Scroll
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Windswept Heath
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Mountain

Sideboard:

4 Meddling Mage
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

The costs involved in translating from Boros Deck Wins to a full five colors are chiefly in the manabase. If you don't see probably two Wastelands in a game, you're going to have the ability to do pretty unfair things as aggro decks go. 5 damage for 2 mana is pretty good; Dark Confidant is pretty good; Kird Ape is pretty good. I'd rather play the better cards right now because I feel that the number of Wastelands I can expect to see is low.

ClearSkies
10-31-2007, 09:22 PM
Why cursed scroll and not Gaea's Might if you going to run one of those Domain Zoo decks?

thefreakaccident
10-31-2007, 10:04 PM
If oy uare going to be playing anything in this format that hopes to win through the attack phase, you need to be playing 4 Tarmogoyf... Here is a good list For San Diego Zoo, that is GRW... it is pretty solid.

4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Savannah lions
4 Werebear

4 swords to plowshares
4 chain lgithning
4 seal of fire
4 lightning helix
4 lightning bolt

4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
3 plateau
3 taiga
3 savannah
1 mountain
1 forest
1 plains

Sideboard//
4 blood moon
3 krosan grip
4 tormod's crypt
4 challice of the void

kirdape3
11-01-2007, 07:07 AM
You: Gaea's Might for 5 targetting Boros Swiftblade.
Them: Lightning Bolt/Swords to Plowshares in response
You: *sad face*

I can get a lot of the power without opening myself up to an easy 2 for 1 with Gaea's Might.

Nihil Credo
11-01-2007, 08:16 AM
I agree that Gaea's Might is a bad choice - it was good in Extended because most spot removal in that format costs 2 - but I also think that Cursed Scroll is fairly underpowered, especially in a balls-to-the-wall aggro deck like this one. Unlikely to be used more than a couple of times, which is a horrible mana-to-damage ratio (If you have Silver Knights to kill everywhere, just don't play Zoo).

My pick for the slot would be some more fat creatures - other than Tarmogoyf, the rest of your force packs it to a Mongoose. The best creature is Jotun Grunt, but while I've seen Goyfs and Grunts live together in the same deck, I'd guess with Grim Lavamancer we'd be going too far. Quirion Dryad seems worth testing in a burn-heavy, four-colour deck like this one.

Rinello
01-17-2008, 12:21 PM
Hello again!

new list:


// Lands
4 [A] Plateau
4 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [OD] Mountain (1)
2 [OD] Plains (1)

// Creatures
4 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
4 [AP] Goblin Legionnaire
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [PLC] Blood Knight
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [8E] Savannah Lions

// Spells
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
2 [VI] Fireblast
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [TSP] Sudden Shock
2 [FD] Magma Jet

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [PY] Abolish
SB: 3 [SC] Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 2 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares


I'd like to change SB and burn cards,
keeping this deck WR boros.

Any idea?

diffy
01-17-2008, 05:43 PM
Here's a list I threw together for a friend some while ago and that actually worked out pretty nicely in testing:



/// Mainboard (60 cards)

// Lands
4 Plateau
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Barbarian Ring

// Creatures
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Savannah Lions
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Goblin Legionnaire
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Magus of the Moon

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Price of Progress
4 Magma Jet

/// Sideboard (15 cards)
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Orim's Chant
2 Blood Moon
3 Pyroclasm


Now, really, don't play crap like Jitte, Sudden Shock and Lightning Helix that are just not aggressive enough. I've found in testing that many decks just can't cope with the amount of agro you put onto the board, especially not when backed up with the most efficient burn to finish the job.
You are the aggro player in every matchup so don't try to control stuff, just throw threats at them until they can't handle them anymore and then procede to win... the key to winning against NQG is to be as agressive as possible, the key to winning the control matchup is to have as many relevant threats (read: that deal enough damage to distract their attention from your real bombs [PoP and Magus]) as possible.
Often NQG will find itself at 10 life or so when they play the first relevant thing (creature or counterbalance) and from then on you can just outrace them and force them to handle every single threat you play. It's even better against control decks because they often have no way of dealing with Price of Progress especially not when combined with efficient creatures and more burn.
To achieve above mentioned aggressiveness, every spell in the deck has to deal a maximum of damage, an exception to this is Magus of the Moon who is just too much of an 'I win card' not to run.
I'm not sure about the number of Jotun Grunts and Grim Lavamancers yet but I definetely prefer the Lavamancer because Grunt often is only dead weight in the early game and so can seriously harm your aggresive strategy.

Some more cards to look into:
- Gathan Raiders as a 2-3off (you are often hellbent and these are good as 5/5s for 3 I hear - I wouldn't include a full playset though as they cost 3 mana). I'd replace a Savannah Lions and a Grim Lavamancer with 2 of these to test them.

If you want to splash green, I don't see a reason to play this over Goyf Sligh (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7458).

Angelfire
01-17-2008, 06:08 PM
I play a variant of "Boros" and have a few comments. Grim Lavamancer + Jotun is not good, pick one. Lightning Helix is very good and plenty aggressive enough, the life gain isn't always relevant but it owns in any sligh/burn match, helps versus aggro and sometimes even combo. I also play 3 Reckless Charge in my list, it works great w/ Marauders and Jotun along w/ the one drops, and flashback gives you steam.

It is not true you are always the aggro deck. When your creatures start to get outsized, playing defense with this deck is very effective. Most of the creatures on defense (Legionaire, Fanatic, and Maruaders) can blok and burn your opponent in the face while you topdeck burn for the kill.

largebrandon
01-18-2008, 09:08 AM
I'm thinking that a PS of Spectral Lynx (with or without Black) is a must here, especially if you are worried about Goyf.

diffy
01-18-2008, 09:15 AM
I'm thinking that a PS of Spectral Lynx (with or without Black) is a must here, especially if you are worried about Goyf.

Why should you be worried of Goyf? Decks packing Goyf tend to be really vulnerable to Magus of the Moon/Price of Progress and to your clock so that you can just ignore the big green guy and race them.
Also there is a better solution to him already availble, on color, and not completely sucking power/cost wise: Jotun Grunt (http://magiccards.info/cs/en/8.html). He'll always be bigger than Goyf if he stays around for a turn or 2.
Also Engineered Explosives out of the board is really nice against Goyf.deck (read: Threshold and other aggro-control).

Changes to above list (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=199911&postcount=35):
-1 Grim Lavamancer
-1 Savannah Lions
+1 Barbarian Ring (constantly hitting 3 mana on turn3 is essential)
+1 Gathan Riders (late game beef)

Hummingbird TG
01-19-2008, 04:19 AM
Countryside Crusher in here? Never drawing lands seems good...

Joon
07-02-2008, 08:36 AM
Holy Necro Batman of Doom :rolleyes:

I'm curious if this deck could be tuned to be effective in the current metagame.
After sketching some ideas, I came up with the following list:

4 Plateau
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Plains

4 Savannah Lion
3 Isamaru
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Magus of the Moon

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

4 Chant
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Blood Moon
3 Disenchant

It worked out pretty solid, REALLY straight Aggro, no Lavamancer as is a) slow and hasn't got good synergies with Tarmogoyf(def)eater Jotun Grunt. After thinking about the deck and testing it I found Magus to be a bit too clunky. 2/2 for 3 Mana isn't what this deck is opting for, so I searched Critter that could be played in this slot and I came up with Goblin Legionnaire - after testing him I found the fact that I had to pay for is ability kinda annoying so he didn't get the cut.
As Vexing Shusher was released, I tested him in the Magus Slot and found him out to be better, as he actually helps against cards that are NOW on the board and does not rely (like Magus) to be played before (for example against TreshTresh...ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh Shusher helps against a resolved Balance, Magus has to resolve before Balance to stop it, which is kinda hard with a cc of 3).
Removal isn't a big problem either as TreshTreshTreshTresh has often only 4 Removal and Grunt HAS to be answered or he'll gonna rape their Goyfs'n'Gooses.
After a bit of testing I built the following list:

4 Plateau
2 Plains
2 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Savannah Lion
3 Isamaru
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Vexing Shusher

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

4 Blood Moon
4 Chant
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Disenchant

But as I haven't any Nonbasicshate main any more I want Price of Progress in there. What would you cut? My first Intention was Jet or R.Bolt. What do you think? In addition: What would you change in the side? I don't know if Wheels are good enough to deserve the slots, as Ichorid gets hated by Fanatics and Grunts, too. The only reasonable choice would be because of Loam.decs...
4 Chants won't make the Combomatchup much better, maybe I should cut Wheels for Chalices/Thorns/Abeyances...

P.S.:

Of course it is possible to splash, but those splashes...suck all a bit as they make the manabase weaker and aren't aggressive.

Black offers discard, Bob, Jailer and Sideboard Vindicates instead of Disenchants.

Green offers Goyf and Teeg against Combo.

Blue offers Stifle and Meddling Mage (both for the Side, and can both get supported by 1 Tundra and/or 1 Volcanic Island, the most interesting splash imo).

Somehow I like the Blue splash...I could easily cut 1 Mountain/Fetchland for 1 Volcanic or so...and then play Stifle/M.Mage or Stifle/Chant in the Side as Combohate.

Please answer me :smile:

Joon
07-04-2008, 04:19 PM
Nothing? A "No, this deck sucks" would be more satisfying than this...ingnorance :frown:

Jak
07-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Nothing? A "No, this deck sucks" would be more satisfying than this...ingnorance :frown:

Why is this better than Goyf Sligh which has Goyf and Grip?

Watcher487
07-04-2008, 05:15 PM
4 Plateau
2 Plains
2 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Savannah Lion
3 Isamaru
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Vexing Shusher

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

4 Blood Moon
4 Chant
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Disenchant


Ok, personally it looks like you really want to play Goyf Sligh -Goyf. But that's ok. The mana base needs a little work (too many fetches, WAY too many fetches and your not split on color your heavy red) you are already playing the best thing for this deck since Counterbalance reads YOU LOSE. But away from that you gain a huge advantage over Goyf Sligh. Orim's Chant. It turns combo into a guessing game which is a good thing but your still slow to actually race against decent combo.

In the board you should be running Magus over normal Moon since it doesn the thing you need it to do after it hits play, Beat Face.

Now considering the additional colors thing you were talking about. Green offers more than just Goyf and Teeg. Green offers Krosan Grip and Burning-Tree Shaman. Grip is worth it over Disenchant and Burning-Tree Shaman imporves the Threshold and Landstill match up, so it's good things all around.

If you were considering to run Blue into the deck I would heavily consider running those Stilfes in the main deck due to the high amount of uses (ie. if you have a fast hand, you can delay a control deck by stifling his-her fetches or pernicious deed-engineered explosives.

Other than that test it out, see what you like and dislike and work with it.

Joon
07-05-2008, 06:01 AM
Ah...resonance.

Why this deck is better than Goyf Sligh? Well, run Goyf like everybody does or run Grunt who rapes Goyf. The lack of Grip is kinda meh though, but I try to compensate that with Shusher in the main. In addition to that I have 8 Combohating Cards which makes this Matchup at least even.

This is my actual list:

// Lands
4 [B] Plateau
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [UNH] Plains
3 [UNH] Mountain
1 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Keldon Marauders
4 [B] Savannah Lions
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [FNM] Mogg Fanatic
4 [SHM] Vexing Shusher

// Spells
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
4 [VI] Fireblast
4 [EX] Price of Progress

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 [AT] Disenchant
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [SC] Stifle
SB: 2 [FUT] Magus of the Moon

I don't know how Stifle main could work out as we have only opposing Wastelands, Fetchlands and Deeds/EE's as a target...and stifling Fetchlands without more LD in form of Wasteland isn't that good imo. In addition to that, it doesn't help the general Gameplan: Beat ya face.
Maybe I'll go -1 Grunt +1 Magus in the Side as the third Magus will more likely have an influence on the board than the fourth Grunt.

Watcher487
07-05-2008, 08:38 AM
Why is this better than Goyf Sligh which has Goyf and Grip?

You gain a huge advantage over Goyf Sligh. Orim's Chant.


Why this deck is better than Goyf Sligh? Well, run Goyf like everybody does or run Grunt who rapes Goyf. The lack of Grip is kinda meh though, but I try to compensate that with Shusher in the main. In addition to that I have 8 Combohating Cards which makes this Matchup at least even.

Joon as much as I'd love to say that Grunt rapes Goyf, it's not that cut and clean. Goyf Sligh runs just as much burn as you sometimes they even run alternative burn (Seal of Fire, Tarfire and even Pyrite Spellbomb) just to make Goyf bigger but at the very least he ends up 4/5 in most cases other wise known as Able to beat for 4, but other than that your basically running Goyf Sligh. You pick up some positives and some negatives, just like any major change to any deck.

GreenOne
08-20-2008, 09:31 PM
Is Figure of Destiny hot or not? I tested it a bit and it was quite good.
It's surprising nobody necroed this thread after this card coming out and the Top8@Gencon.

Here's the list I'm playing. Note that the post is not for criticizing my list (which sucks). It's here just as a rough example of the deck with Figure in it.

// Creatures
4 [AP] Goblin Legionnaire
4 [4E] Savannah Lions
3 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [EVE] Figure of Destiny

// Spells
4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
4 [AT] Lightning Bolt
2 [VI] Fireblast

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 4 [6E] Disenchant
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

I'm playing the standard burn package -price of progress -2 Fireblast.
This is obviously a on-optimized list, it's just that I like having a lot of creatures and I hate having 2x fireblast in hand. I also hate taking dmg from my own price of progress.

Discuss.

electrolyze
08-21-2008, 05:01 AM
hey greenone, i like that list,

my question is, would keldon marauders be good in this deck of does he die too quick:wink: ?

my list is almost the same a yours but i play 3 price and a extra fireblast instead of 4 savannah lions(i dont like that creature, but thats just me i think, and my meta consists out of more control and combo were price and fireblast are better than lions.

i really like figure too, he's so incredibly strong and i even made him a 8/8 once. i think its really a good card for the deck(not only this one but other sligh like decks too).

are there some mu's analyses for this deck, because i really like to know that?

mogote
08-22-2008, 01:45 PM
Discuss.
No lands?

I wonder if 18 creatures and 8 more spells at 1 mana isn't a little bit too much. It's risky as well.

Would Duergar Hedge-Mage work, at least as a sideboard card?

kicks_422
08-22-2008, 08:07 PM
For any Sligh-type lists, I've never been comfortable having less than 18 burn spells... Focusing on creatures (even though those creatures include Grimmie, Fanatic, and Legionnaire) leaves you vulnerable to just being chump-blocked or sweeper'd out of the game.

raharu
08-23-2008, 05:07 AM
For any Sligh-type lists, I've never been comfortable having less than 18 burn spells... Focusing on creatures (even though those creatures include Grimmie, Fanatic, and Legionnaire) leaves you vulnerable to just being chump-blocked or sweeper'd out of the game.
Why play creatures then? It seems like 18+ burn is defeating the purpose in BDW :3

GreenOne
08-23-2008, 06:35 AM
No lands?

// Lands
2 [8E] Mountain (4)
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
4 [A] Plateau
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [IA] Plains (1)



I wonder if 18 creatures and 8 more spells at 1 mana isn't a little bit too much. It's risky as well.

Would Duergar Hedge-Mage work, at least as a sideboard card?

That could be a great addition. I like it a lot. It's a disenchant effect out of counterbalance range! We should consider Aura of silence and Oblivion Ring in its slot too.

This is the SB i'll test:
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 3 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [EVE] Duergar Hedge-Mage
SB: 2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring

kicks_422
08-23-2008, 09:37 AM
Why play creatures then? It seems like 18+ burn is defeating the purpose in BDW :3

I've always liked having a ratio of 20/22/18 with creatures/spells/lands. I guess its just my playstyle - I never feel comfortable with too many creatures in Sligh because then you'd be better off with Goblins, and same thing with too many burn spells, because then you'd be better off playing burn. I just love balance, that's all.

raharu
08-24-2008, 12:28 AM
I've always liked having a ratio of 20/22/18 with creatures/spells/lands. I guess its just my playstyle - I never feel comfortable with too many creatures in Sligh because then you'd be better off with Goblins, and same thing with too many burn spells, because then you'd be better off playing burn. I just love balance, that's all.
Right right. I just think that BDW feels more creature-oriented than sligh and ~14 should be good. ofc, playstyle matters. I've always used burn as removal and didn't point at the face until right when it matters, i.e. they're at a dangerous life total, swing + drop a hand of burn that hasn't been picking off creatures. Again, playstyles, I guess. That, and Fanatic and Lavamancer make it seem as though you would be overloaded on damage spells :3

GreenOne
08-24-2008, 08:53 AM
I've always liked having a ratio of 20/22/18 with creatures/spells/lands.

Isn't 18 lands too little? I found 21 to be a good number to support some fireblasts and a good use of Figure of Destiny. Am I running too many?

Testing of Duergar Hedge-Mage revealed the card is busted. The deck needed it. Once it took care of both a Counterbalance and a Dreadnough, leaving me with a 2/2 body. I'm really thinking about it MD in 2x now.

kicks_422
08-24-2008, 10:21 AM
I designed my Sligh deck to function off of only two lands. With Figure, I guess you could go up to a max of 20... Which is why I don't like Figure of Destiny much.

Mirrislegend
08-24-2008, 10:34 AM
as much as I'd love to say that Grunt rapes Goyf, it's not that cut and clean

It doesn't have to be. Grunt is a house against most of the format, even sans goyf. With goyf included, Grunt makes a decent play against very very nearly every deck in the format except Solidarity!

With the power of Grunt and Duergar Hedge-Mage, maybe it's time to take this deck in a bit of a slower, more control oriented direction? Less focus on early attack creatures to allow for a more solid mid-game? This leaves the possibility of early creature beatz + burn ftw open, while maintaining other paths to victory (something the very aggresive lists lack).

Dxfiler
08-25-2008, 06:45 AM
It doesn't have to be. Grunt is a house against most of the format, even sans goyf. With goyf included, Grunt makes a decent play against very very nearly every deck in the format except Solidarity!

I agree. Grunt is an absolute house. It can hold it's own against Goyf and is your best card maindeck against Ichorid game 1's, which is typically hard.


With the power of Grunt and Duergar Hedge-Mage, maybe it's time to take this deck in a bit of a slower, more control oriented direction? Less focus on early attack creatures to allow for a more solid mid-game? This leaves the possibility of early creature beatz + burn ftw open, while maintaining other paths to victory (something the very aggresive lists lack).

I'm not sold on hedge-mage yet, but I feel that boros could be a little slower aiming for a mid-game if necessary. My main difference with the archtype and how others approach it is I feel it should have 4 swords to plowshares main. I look as creatures + burn being the road to victory as opposed to just burn and a couple guys.

This is the list I'm testing at the moment:

// Lands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [5E] Plains
2 [6E] Mountain
4 [U] Plateau
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [RAV] Sacred Foundry
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [AT] Mogg Fanatic
4 [B] Savannah Lions
3 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
2 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
3 [EVT] Figure of Destiny
4 [CHK] Kami of Ancient Law

// Spells
4 [U] Lightning Bolt
4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
4 [REW] Incinerate

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 3 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 2 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [REL] Vexing Shusher
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte


The creatures are all straight-forward. The only non-normal one is prob the kami. If you like use Ronom Unicorn :p

The Kami is a metagame call. Enchantments are huge in my area, particularly counterbalance based decks. Granted shusher takes care of that problem but I don't like Vexing main and if you hit a match where it's totally dead there's plenty of things in the sb to swap them out for.

Figure seems like a natural fit in this deck. I don't like it as a 4 of because it won't always get to be a 4/4 since I have wastelands in here. It's hard for me to build a deck like this without wastes. It might be correct to not run them but they've always been good for me. I need further testing to show if I really need wastes or not but for now I feel they're fine.

No Chain Lightning is definitely a point of contention as I know it's a Boros staple, but I don't think it's needed if you're headed in the creature direction as it's going to be the worst 3 damage spell in your deck and another card that fuels Goyf, which is this deck's nemesis.

I need to test this list more but for the moment I'm happy with it.

Any feedback always welcome. Feel free to yell at me :p

- Dave Feinstein

GreenOne
08-25-2008, 07:41 AM
I don't catch the Katakis in your list. Is your meta infested with affinity and stax or what? What I like about boros is that creatures are not only beating, but burn or control the match too.
The kamis might be interesting in your meta, but i don't catch the savannah lions when you already have 2 power drops (Figure and Isamaru). Your list is missing the "burn" creatures. Lavamancer can be dropped since you're using Grunt, but what about Legionnaire?

I didn't find goyf to be such a problem to deal with. A single burn+Lavamancer activation/creature dmg takes it. Some Grunt MD and the remaining in the SB shrinks them. Even lavamancer helps in making it little. Also, decks that play goyf are usually pwned by a single resolved PoP.

Nihil Credo
08-25-2008, 07:54 AM
Kataki looks the oddest slot in that list. With the notable exceptions of Stax and Affinity, most decks usually have one artifact in play at the most. Is your metagame infested with either?

If not, a 2/1 with a free Rishadan Port every turn isn't awful, but Boros has plenty of two-drops that out-perform it.

Also, I think GreenOne is right about Price of Progress. To add another thing: if you choose not to play PoP (because you see lots of monocolour decks or whatever), then I see no reason not to also splash at least green for Kird Ape and Tarmogoyf.

Dxfiler
08-25-2008, 07:04 PM
Kataki reads: Pay 1 for your top or put it on your library every turn

That's the main reason why he's maindeck, and for that purpose he's been great. About 60% of the decks in my area use top. Plus if you run into affinity randomly, he's your best shot at taking game 1.

- Dave

Nihil Credo
08-25-2008, 07:43 PM
Kataki reads: Pay 1 for your top or put it on your library every turn

That's the main reason why he's maindeck, and for that purpose he's been great. About 60% of the decks in my area use top. Plus if you run into affinity randomly, he's your best shot at taking game 1.

As I said, Goblin Piker + Rishadan Port is not bad.

But does it really compare favourably to, oh, let's say Blood/Silver Knight (16-17 sources of each colour should be plenty, especially since turn 2 Wastelands are usually sacrificed on the spot)? Immune from a whole category of removal, doesn't get traded with by random dorks, and you can even swing it into Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker if you are decent at bluffing Bolts?

Dxfiler
08-26-2008, 02:29 AM
As I said, Goblin Piker + Rishadan Port is not bad.

But does it really compare favourably to, oh, let's say Blood/Silver Knight (16-17 sources of each colour should be plenty, especially since turn 2 Wastelands are usually sacrificed on the spot)? Immune from a whole category of removal, doesn't get traded with by random dorks, and you can even swing it into Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker if you are decent at bluffing Bolts?

Silver knight is a great card. It's what would be in the deck if I didn't maindeck Kami. But I don't think it should ever take the spot of Kataki. The double white can actually be an issue and given that many people run top, yes i'm fine with goblin piker + rishadan port. If goblin piker had port's ability tacked on you'd play it in RDW, right? I know I would.

Silver knight really is great though. I want to play it but again I'm more comfortable with kami right now given my meta and I do feel Kataki is superior to him maindeck.

As for sideboard I cannot picture a universe where I'd run Silver Knight over Burrenton forge Tender, so for right now Silver is completely out of my version.

If enchantments die down, then he could very well make it back into the main.

- Dave

raharu
08-26-2008, 06:20 AM
Why play Burrenton Forge Tender over MoR?

GreenOne
08-26-2008, 06:55 AM
Why play Burrenton Forge Tender over MoR?

Probably because it can carry a Jitte all day against burn and goblins. However, I don't like it too.

Dxfiler
08-26-2008, 01:03 PM
I'm guessing Mor is Mother of Runes.

Burrenton is at the stage right now where he's just under-appreciated. I've played him in multiple formats and trust me when I say white hasn't had a color hoser this good in years.

I've been on the giving and receiving end of the card multiple times and it's an absolute beating against red. If you drop it against Goblins turn 1 you've shut down any offense they can muster for at least the first two turns, if not three. If things gets out of hand it acts as a nice fog against a giant piledriver while blocking something else. And yes if you get Jitte on it then you win the game.

It doesn't just stop red either. Dreadstill/Survival like to be cute and board in firespout/pyroclasm. When I had tender in my UW fish board I would actively side into it and take out lions. Now getting your board cleared is a little less painful in RW because the creatures are more expendable, but it's still nice to keep your 2 power beaters on the board. Not to mention it can save figure before you've turned it into a 4/4.

Burrenton Forge-Tender is just one of those cards that will be given alot more respect the older it gets. It's still a new card so people don't immediately look to it, but it is the single best hoser against red that you have access to and it's good in a multitude of matches, including the mirror.

I can see why people might not like Kataki or Kami of ancient Law, but not liking Burrenton blows my mind. All I can say is sideboard it and you'll probably change your mind.

- Dave

Rush
08-26-2008, 03:13 PM
Have any of you tried Sunforger?

Willoe
08-26-2008, 03:46 PM
Have any of you tried Sunforger?

Really, what do you want it to do?

It costs 6WR to tutor up and cheat a spell into play and simply 6 to power up your creature.

That is definately not for this build. You might try another build, but this deck can - as far as I know - not support that mana intensive cards.

raharu
08-30-2008, 10:05 PM
Dxfiler: Why don't you play Grim Lavamancer? I'd cut down on the Grunts for it (of course I've never ever found Jotun Grunt to be that spectacular, even in Fish). Also, in a less artifact-oriented metagame, would you find a creature base like this one reasonable? (note the pared down Grunts and 4x 'mancers, which I would think a personal choice).

// Creatures: 23
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Silver Knight
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Ronom Unicorn (No reason not to run it. It's a Seal of Cleansing on legs, worst comes to worst it swings and blocks)

EDIT: Sunforger answers Counterbalance and is remarkably annoying/ backbreaking in a more mid range deck.

GreenOne
08-31-2008, 06:29 AM
would you find a creature base like this one reasonable?

// Creatures: 23
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Silver Knight
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Ronom Unicorn (No reason not to run it. It's a Seal of Cleansing on legs, worst comes to worst it swings and blocks)


This is my view on it.
2 Jotun Grunt - I'm thinking about running 2 or 0 in a 4 Lavamancers deck. 2 is ok.

3 Silver Knight - Why do you want those? Goblins is not widely played as it was, and STP is the most common creature removal in the format. I'd play Blood Knight all day over it, but I'd probably play Goblin Legionnaire over both. First strike is not so relevant in this format cause you have small critters. Yeah, it can kill a Goyf with an added bolt going 1for1 against the biggest creature in the format, but if they counter the bolt it's a 2x1 for them. Against control and combo Legionnaire is better IMO.

3 Figure of Destiny - I'm not sure about hat number. usually Boros decks needs 6-8 2 Power drops on Turn 1. Right now your deck has 6. I'd probably go with 4 Figure of destiny, especially if you're running <2 Fireblast.

4 Ronom Unicorn - It's not a seal of cleansing cause it can't deal with artifacts. It's also a 2CC drop, so it can't deal with Counterbalance unless you already have it into play and the opponent doesn't remove it before dropping CB. That's why you're playing 4: you want it to land before the opponent's CB.
Did you test Duergar Hedge-Mage?
Pros:
- You don't have to sacrifice it to take away those pesky cards.
- It's a 3cc drop, so counterbalance doesn't deal with it.
- It takes care of artifacts too. I know that artifacts are not the main problem in your meta, but I guess that there are some landstill (takes EE when they're tapped out), Goblins (Vial), Threshold (Takes both CB and they must flip SDT on the top. EE too). And sometimes you can encounter a Dreadought, a Ravager, a Jitte, a Vedalken Shackles, a Chalice of the void and you'll thank him.
- Since you don't need it before they land CB, you can play just 2/3, freeing some space in the deck for more aggro-cards.

Cons:
- It can't destroy enchantments at instant speed
- You have to wait in playing it until the opponent landed its disruption piece.
- It's 3cc so it's not huge as an aggro piece.

This is what I'd play with 23 critters in your meta:
4 Goblin Legionnaire
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Figure of Destiny
1/2 Jotun Grunt
3/2 Duergar Hedge Mage

raharu
08-31-2008, 01:03 PM
Silver Knight: well, Pyroclasm is no fun, and it's always good to have some sweeper protection, I presume. StP may be more relevant, but one piece of spot-removal that will hit something else anyway isn't as threatening as a sweeper that will likely kill the whole team. ofc, Pyroclasm isn't that present in the average metagame, but where I play, 5c thresh w/ PyroK, Dryad Sligh w/ PyroK (most annoying match ever), and smallguy agro/ elves (which make First Strike relevant) are fairly present. That, and I've never liked Goblin Legionnaire. The meta is fairly casual, to say the least.

The Figure/ Isamaru split: I've always liked 4x Isamaru in decks of this style because, as a smaller creature, they're expendable by nature, so you're not likely to have a duplicate in hand. It also seems like the Legendary rule keeps you from over-extending in most situations, but that's not really a relevant note. FoD seems like you would only want one in the early game, and want to put mana into it in the mid/ late game where you wouldn't really have mana to spend on another Figure (because you would rather be doing other, more relevant things), so I'd play 3. ofc, maybe 4 Isamaru is wrong and 4 Figure is preferable.

Unicorn Vs. Hedge-Mage: I like Hedge-Mage more, but Unicorn is more aggressive and a less-dead feeling card in the absence of a CB. Perhaps Mages in the place of SB O-Rings, iDunno. In the main, though, Unicorn feels... right. Not better, but more aggressive.

Would it slow the deck down too much to play 'Jitte in the main?

mogote
09-01-2008, 03:22 AM
Unicorn Vs. Hedge-Mage: I like Hedge-Mage more, but Unicorn is more aggressive and a less-dead feeling card in the absence of a CB. Perhaps Mages in the place of SB O-Rings, iDunno. In the main, though, Unicorn feels... right. Not better, but more aggressive.
I played a Boros Deck Wins at the German Legacy Championship (dropped after 7 rounds). For the tournament I had 2 Duergar Hedge-Mages in the main and I've been very happy with them as they were rarely just acting as a vanilla. Several times I got double hits as well (e.g. Counterbalance/Top, Seismic Assault/Mox D., SurvivalotF/Vial). So I'd advocate to at least play 2 in the main and 2 more in the sideboard. It's usually out of reach of Counterbalance and Chalice which is a benefit as well.

EternalDragon09
09-03-2008, 12:20 AM
i have an interesting list let me know what you think.

Creatures:
3 hound of konda
3 grim lavamancer
3 figure of destiny
4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
4 goblin legionnaire
3 mogg fanatic

Spells:
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightining
3 fire blast
4 lightning helix

Lands:
4 plateau
2 sacred foundry
2 taiga
2 badlands
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 windswept heath
1 mountain

Sideboard:
4 orim's chant
4 shattering spree
4 honorable passage
3 krosan grip

raharu
09-03-2008, 12:42 AM
lol 4c? Interesting. Erm... Enjoy your wasteland?

On a more constructive note, why don't you pla Chrome Mox? Actually, that looks like dark 3duce. Not exactly Boros, but hay, why not. What are the Honorable Passages for? Red isn't super-relevant, so why not invest the extra mana for Boros Fury-Shield? It makes the OPs Tarmogoyfs better for you, at least and is relevant against Dreadnought, Tombstalker, other non-red threats.

Why no Thoughtseizes in the Sideboard? Seems like they'd be solid against combo, perhaps in the Passage slot, considering that looks rather narrow and underpowered.

GreenOne
09-03-2008, 06:39 AM
i have an interesting list let me know what you think.

Creatures:
3 hound of konda
3 grim lavamancer
3 figure of destiny
4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
4 goblin legionnaire
3 mogg fanatic

Spells:
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightining
3 fire blast
4 lightning helix

Lands:
4 plateau
2 sacred foundry
2 taiga
2 badlands
4 wooded foothills
4 bloodstained mire
2 windswept heath
1 mountain

Sideboard:
4 orim's chant
4 shattering spree
4 honorable passage
3 krosan grip

If you're playing that many colors, you probably want to play something like Domain Zoo, that leads to an entirely different deck and thread: this one (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7006&page=2&highlight=domain)

Here's my decklist of domain zoo, for reference, but don't let the discussion go away from the boros decklists here.

// Lands
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Taiga
1 [U] Badlands
1 [B] Savannah
2 [A] Plateau
2 [B] Scrubland
1 [A] Bayou
1 [B] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [9E] Kird Ape
4 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
3 [EX] Skyshroud Elite

// Spells
4 [B] Lightning Bolt
4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
4 [TSB] Tribal Flames
2 [LG] Chain Lightning
2 [AP] Vindicate

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [AP] Vindicate
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip

mhinsz
09-04-2008, 07:39 AM
Hello.

I'm trying to get into Legacy more, and took the Boros Decklist from the GenCon Legacy Top 2

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=19270

I had most of the cards, and it appeared to be a easier deck to pilot, so it felt right to try out in an unknown field (for me... most Legacy is).

I was a bit underwhelmed with Price of Progress. It felt like most of the competent opponents were able to play around it. It was sided out a lot.

Lavamancer and Jotun Grunt kept stepping on each other - I feel that the Lavamancer was more effective most of the time. Even against Tarmogoyf the Grunt wasn't amazing.

I mulliganned more that I would have hoped, with the low land count (20 land) - and felt that the lost a lot of power when going down in cards. Wasteland also usually hit me very hard - making me wish I had at least 1 more land.

Is Pyrokinesis a sideboard card just vs. Goblins? I keep feeling that Engineered Explosives would be a better card in that spot.

Would you board in Shusher vs. Counterbalance?

Thanks for any thoughts...

Rush
09-04-2008, 08:45 AM
Have any of you tried Sunforger in your decks?

mhinsz
09-04-2008, 10:23 AM
I don't see how Sunforger could be useful. It's cost, equip, and ability take too much resources to setup. It has to be attached to a creature to work, and the creatures are not that resilient.

Van Phanel
09-04-2008, 11:00 AM
Have any of you tried Sunforger in your decks?

Why would anybody in their right mind use a card that costs at least 6 mana before doing anything? If you want equipment, play Jitte, it's just better.

GreenOne
09-04-2008, 11:27 AM
I was a bit underwhelmed with Price of Progress. It felt like most of the competent opponents were able to play around it. It was sided out a lot.


It depends on which decks did you encounter. If all you faced was 8 lands stompy, MUC, death and taxes and the like you're right. But the DTBs have usually a real low number of basics (aggroloam, Thrashold, Landstill, etc).



Lavamancer and Jotun Grunt kept stepping on each other - I feel that the Lavamancer was more effective most of the time. Even against Tarmogoyf the Grunt wasn't amazing.


Sometimes it's amazing against threshed mongeese, sometimes it's huge against ichorid, sometimes it plain sucks. I'm currently playing 1-2 maindeck with the others SB. Lavamancer needs to be 4x imo.



I mulliganned more that I would have hoped, with the low land count (20 land) - and felt that the lost a lot of power when going down in cards. Wasteland also usually hit me very hard - making me wish I had at least 1 more land.


21 Lands is good if you're playing Figure of Destiny (cut those Savannah Lions..). You'll never have spare mana and halps against overextending.



Is Pyrokinesis a sideboard card just vs. Goblins? I keep feeling that Engineered Explosives would be a better card in that spot.


Yeah, it's only against gobbosand belcher. You can play Jitte in this spot too. Engineered explosives is a bit mana intensive to be useful and hurts you a lot too. I'm playing duergar hedge-mage in this spot and I'm really happy with him (look the discussion some posts above).



Would you board in Shusher vs. Counterbalance?


Yeah. I'm playing Hedge-Mage against it and you're playing Shusher. That's probably the only matchup where it's really useful.

mogote
09-05-2008, 05:18 AM
I mulliganned more that I would have hoped, with the low land count (20 land) - and felt that the lost a lot of power when going down in cards. Wasteland also usually hit me very hard - making me wish I had at least 1 more land.
20 lands should be more than sufficient IMO. Why did you have problems with Wasteland if your only nonbasics are Plateaus (assuming you played said list)? When you're in fear of Wasteland I would propose going for basic lands first when you fetch.

Btw, something I love about Figure of Destiny is that it can be played off either Mountains or Plains.


It depends on which decks did you encounter. If all you faced was 8 lands stompy, MUC, death and taxes and the like you're right. But the DTBs have usually a real low number of basics (aggroloam, Thrashold, Landstill, etc).
Green One's right. Price of Progress helps against a lot of the top decks. So unless your metagame really is heavy on monocolored decks I would stick with PoP, too. It's just too good to exclude, normally.
This reminds me of a game against Aggro Loam. My opponent's playing a huge Devastating Dreams while still at a good amount of life points (around 10 maybe) and in response he dies to Price of Progress followed by Fireblast.

mhinsz
09-05-2008, 05:29 PM
Well, I won a fairly small weekly Legacy event last night playing this:

2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Plateau
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

4 Figure of Destiny
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Savannah Lions

3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning

SB

2 Jotun Grunt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Disenchant
3 Shattering Spree
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Vexing Shusher
---------------------------------------------------------

I played vs. 43 lands a couple times and basically won off of Pithing Needle and Price of Progress.

I also played vs. multiple Aggro Loam decks and was able to bring in Shattering Spree for Chalice and other items, and usually burn them out.

The only other archetype I played was a UW Aether Vial deck that has pro red creatures against me. I've played around the deck before, but it is always a close matchup. This time, I won with Figure of Destiny(s).

Figure of Destiny was very good all day.

That's all.

GreenOne
09-06-2008, 08:23 AM
Some questions:
- Why did you choose to cut Fanatics for Lions?
- I'm still not running Magma Jets. Do you find it to be the weakest card in the burn department or is the scry that useful?

mhinsz
09-06-2008, 08:45 PM
The list I ran is a direct descendant of the one from the GenCon Legacy event. I never considered Mogg Fanatic. Is it really that great? It kills Bob - helps vs. Dredge?

I really like Magma Jet. I would cut Lightning Helix before I cut Magma Jet. Scrying has always helped either smooth my draws or help me in topdeck mode.

GreenOne
09-06-2008, 10:05 PM
The list I ran is a direct descendant of the one from the GenCon Legacy event. I never considered Mogg Fanatic. Is it really that great? It kills Bob - helps vs. Dredge?

I really like Magma Jet. I would cut Lightning Helix before I cut Magma Jet. Scrying has always helped either smooth my draws or help me in topdeck mode.

Fanatic also helps in fizzling opposing jittes and in pinging the opponent when you can't dominate the combat step. It's also red, which is easier on the mana base. It also pings Lackeys like nothing else and stops Warren Weirding with the help of Legionnaire. It can become food for Grunt/Lavamancer when needed and pings opposing birds. Sometimes it 2 for 1s weenie decks.

I'm having problems with Fireblast. Am I the only one that hates breaking his lands in response to a discard spell? what about putting other kind of burn in its place, like Incinerate, Magma Jet or Rift Bolt?

Pros of Fireblast:
- Free
- Uncounterable with CounterBalance outside of kokusho shenanigans.
- Deals 4. Good as a finisher.
- Quite good when the opponent tries to wasteland/DD you.
Cons:
- Usually can't be hardcasted
- 2 lands are a lot when we're playing 20/21.
- Bad as a removal spell for turns 1-3
- Its use of mana conflicts with Figure of Destiny.

mhinsz
09-07-2008, 07:28 AM
I find Fireblast quite useful.. It is often the last spell you cast - but it can help feed the Grunt or Lavamancer as well. You can usually cast all the spells in your hand before paying for the Fireblast - so it puts you all in.

mogote
09-08-2008, 07:33 AM
I'm having problems with Fireblast. Am I the only one that hates breaking his lands in response to a discard spell? what about putting other kind of burn in its place, like Incinerate, Magma Jet or Rift Bolt?

Pros of Fireblast:
- Free
- Uncounterable with CounterBalance outside of kokusho shenanigans.
- Deals 4. Good as a finisher.
- Quite good when the opponent tries to wasteland/DD you.
Cons:
- Usually can't be hardcasted
- 2 lands are a lot when we're playing 20/21.
- Bad as a removal spell for turns 1-3
- Its use of mana conflicts with Figure of Destiny.
I consider Fireblast too good not to be run as a 3-off in the deck. Just think of it as a finisher that can be played for free. So you really want to hold onto the card as long as possible which in turn makes the cons you listed negligible for the most part.

raharu
09-12-2008, 08:17 PM
B-B-B-Bump and grind.

Anyway, I've been doing a bit of playtesting recently, and while I'm routinely dismayed at the lack of a large creature (I've been playing a build that's a bit different than the ones here), I'm rather pleased with the proformance of a wonderful little card called Puncture Blast (http://magiccards.info/eve/en/60.html). While it seems rather lack luster on paper, in my akward agro/ akward board control with fattie finishers/ threshold metagame it's pretty okay. It shrinks Large creatures permanently, lets me block+wither large creatures without taking a 2 for 1 (I'm running a decent bit of first strike creatures), and lets me race Tarmogoyf with a Figure/ a Knight + Isamaru. Or just kill 'Goyf. Whatever he walks into. I certainly know that my friend was rather dismayed when he dropped a Sera Angel (yes, a decent portion of my testing, err... victims? are sub-optimal) and it got turned into a 1/1 for 3WW. It's even more hilarious because he was trying to stabilize against Grim Lavamancer, Isamaru, and Silver Knight, and had a PyroK in hand, but taped out for the Angel. Eh, shit happens, I guess. He ate something like 12 next turn :laugh:

Also, I'm totatly not missing Fireblast. At all. (if you can't tell it's not in my list atm). I still can't see any reason to run it. I'd rather magma Jet in that slot, if I were to run any additional burn. ofc, my build right now doesn't run an ass-ton of burn/ removal. Just 15 + 3 jitte.

GreenOne
09-13-2008, 07:39 AM
Puncture blast seems good. However, I'm playing too little first strike critters to make it worth it.

Fireblast is really not the best burn spell actually in the deck and its slot can be reconsidered. I'm actually testing Magma Jet, but it's more utility than pure dmg. Maybe Incinerate works better.

Did anyone test Char and Flame Javelin?
Or maybe up the number of creatures with Keldon Marauders, that is some sort of burn too?

raharu
09-14-2008, 01:34 AM
Puncture blast seems good. However, I'm playing too little first strike critters to make it worth it.

Well, they're a bit nicer with First Strike creatures, but all around Wither is just dandy. Not incredibly, but nice to have a good portion of the time, and make large creatures much less relevant.


Fireblast is really not the best burn spell actually in the deck and its slot can be reconsidered. I'm actually testing Magma Jet, but it's more utility than pure dmg. Maybe Incinerate works better.

I'm actually considering Magma Jet in the Puncture Blast slots too.


Did anyone test Char and Flame Javelin?
Or maybe up the number of creatures with Keldon Marauders, that is some sort of burn too?

iDunno... Keldon Marauders has never struck me as good. Then again, I don't like Jotun Grunt because he doesn't stick around and have been searching for a replacement for a while now. On that note, what do you think of Knight of Meadowgrain? It doesn't feel all that strong to me, but... iDunno. Serra Avenger doesn't sound right, Grunt doesn't feel right, neither does Marauders. I'm really not feeling the Unicorn against most decks. Just the typical CounterBalance decks and whatnot... eh.

I'd consider Flame Javelin, but... Well, it's not as useful as Puncture Blast, and +1 damage doesn't seem worth it. Eh. I'll test it eventually.

GreenOne
09-14-2008, 09:41 AM
iDunno... Keldon Marauders has never struck me as good. Then again, I don't like Jotun Grunt because he doesn't stick around and have been searching for a replacement for a while now.

I tested the deck without Jotun Grunt because I had your exact same feeling and it was plain worse. You just have to look at the card from another point of view. It stucks only for 1/2 turns? than it's a 1W 4-8 dmg bolt in the face, which is not bad. The opponent is unlikely to chumpblock with his critters, knowing it will stuck just for a little. It also worth noting than when it loses its summoning sickness it's usually bigger than Goyf on that turn: usually there's only 1 player that played sorceries.

If your opponent is playing with the graveyard (Goyf or Mongoose, Loam and Crucible, Ichorid, recurring Explosives, Witness etc) than it suddenly becomes a beating and disrupting machine that need some kind of response fast.

raharu
09-14-2008, 12:32 PM
I tested the deck without Jotun Grunt because I had your exact same feeling and it was plain worse. You just have to look at the card from another point of view. It stucks only for 1/2 turns? than it's a 1W 4-8 dmg bolt in the face, which is not bad. The opponent is unlikely to chumpblock with his critters, knowing it will stuck just for a little. It also worth noting than when it loses its summoning sickness it's usually bigger than Goyf on that turn: usually there's only 1 player that played sorceries.

If your opponent is playing with the graveyard (Goyf or Mongoose, Loam and Crucible, Ichorid, recurring Explosives, Witness etc) than it suddenly becomes a beating and disrupting machine that need some kind of response fast.
You have a good point, I just feel that there might be something better we're missing. Grunt is good in a solid number of situations, but a big, permenent beater would be nice :rolleyes: Grunt is the best out of all things mentioned, though.

GreenOne
09-14-2008, 01:08 PM
but a big, permenent beater would be nice :rolleyes: Grunt is the best out of all things mentioned, though.

Unfortunately, they still haven't printed a RW big dude with cc <=2 :cry: Maybe someday Wizards will print a Borogoyf.

Mirrislegend
09-14-2008, 09:36 PM
Hey all. I brought a very budget Boros sligh to the latest DHG Legacy 500. I scrubbed out of the main event, but won a Goyf in the side event, mostly off of savage lucksackery. That being said, it wasn't all luck.

List (as best as I can remember):
1 Plateau
3 Sacred Foundry
7 Snow-Covered Mountains
6 Snow Covered Plains

4 Figure of Destiny
4 Mogg Fanatic
1 Isamaru
1 Savannah Lions
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Ronom Unicorn
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Duergar Hedge Mage

4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Test of Faith
3 Price of Progress
3 Aether Vial

SB:
4 REB
4 Shattering Spree
1 Jotun Grunt
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
1 Price of Progress

Card choice/number explanations:

-1 Plateau - borrowed from a friend who only owned one
-3 Sacred Foundry - see Plateau
-Snow-Covered Basics - decklist was in flux until last minute. I had briefly considered Skred. Thank the gods for that not happening.
-1 Isamaru - only own 1
-1 Savannah Lions - dropped 1 to fit Isamaru
-2 Grim Lavamancer - only own 2
-3 Ronom Unicorn - this deck curves out at 2, really with only 2 cards at 3. Thus, Counterbalance hate MD is a must.
-2 Jotun Grunt - I'd play more of them if I was really fearing Threshold, but I wasn't
-2 Duergar Hedge Mage - Last minute add. More CB hate, and I knew the Massachusetts contingent was coming, inevitably packing Stifle-nought
-2 Test of Faith - experimental anti-goyf tech. Never got to play it vs a Goyf. Frown town. But the one time it hit play, it was a threat. Even so, EVERY SINGLE TIME it was in my hand, I wished it was a Fireblast.
-3 Price of Progress - Three is definitely the correct number for my deck, but in a better version, I'd say go to 2 to fit in Fireblast.

Notes:
-Figure of Destiny rox my sox
-Grunt MD is the way to go. He is our boro-goyf.
-Magma Jet is hot
-Lightning Helix is not. Lifegain never mattered. I wish it was Chain Lightning, but I don't own any.
-Ronom Unicorn does it's job, and does it well. It's a must-counter card if they're smart, and a beatstick + on-demand awesome if they're not. It's in the MD as CB hate, but as a serendipitous side effect, it gives me a much better Survival matchup.
-Hedge Mage is decent, but I played a lot of land (no fetches). I'd be able to tell you more if I drew it more often/my deck didn't screw me over in the main event.
-Shattering Spree, while beating Chalice, should probably be Hearth Kami. I say this given the lesson taught by the Unicorn. If you're in a Stompy (Tomb/City -> Chalice) environment, then Spree definitely wins out.
-I witnessed Blood Moon own someone's face. It was hawt-secks tek.

If I could do it all again, with a decent Legacy card pool, it would look like this:

2 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
4 Plateau
5 Snow-covered Plains
5 Snow-covered Mountain

4 Figure of Destiny
4 Fanatic
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Isamaru
3 Ronom Unicorn
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Duergar Hedge Mage

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Magma Jet
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 PoP
2 Fireblast
3 Aether Vial

SB:
4 Hearth Kami
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Orim's Chant
2 Pithing Needle (I'm considering swapping this for Blood Moon)
1 Ronom Unicorn
1 Jotun Grunt

raharu
09-14-2008, 09:57 PM
-Magma Jet is hot
-Lightning Helix is not. Lifegain never mattered. I wish it was Chain Lightning, but I don't own any.

Wat? I've always been happy to see Lightning Helix, and wouldn't consider replacing it with Chain Lightning. Instant Speed + Lifegain (which is a little bit more important in a build with fetchies and whatnot) makes life easier and makes race situations much more comfortable.

GreenOne
09-15-2008, 05:34 AM
Aren't 17 lands too little? Vial doesn't seem to fit the theme of the deck much: it just sets you back by a turn to make things uncounterable. 17 lands seems really little, even with vial. Also, with 17 lands Fireblast kinda sucks.

Mirrislegend
09-15-2008, 07:47 AM
After game one, this deck often played out like aggro-control, surprisingly enough. Put pressure on the board, and then answer their threats. In order for this strategy to work, I need my Unicorns, Kamis, Grunts, and Figures to be uncounterable, because they were/would be the MVPs and game-breakers in the respective matchups.

And yes, 17 lands may be too few to support Fireblast, but man that number worked so nicely! And I tended to have the 2 Mountains to spare in the endgame, and still managed to get flooded once or twice, so 17 seems to work for me. Also, keep in mind that much of the choice on lands was relative to my cardpool, which is basically non-existant.

Sek'Kuar
10-03-2008, 11:59 AM
I tested the deck without Jotun Grunt because I had your exact same feeling and it was plain worse. You just have to look at the card from another point of view. It stucks only for 1/2 turns? than it's a 1W 4-8 dmg bolt in the face, which is not bad. The opponent is unlikely to chumpblock with his critters, knowing it will stuck just for a little. It also worth noting than when it loses its summoning sickness it's usually bigger than Goyf on that turn: usually there's only 1 player that played sorceries.

If your opponent is playing with the graveyard (Goyf or Mongoose, Loam and Crucible, Ichorid, recurring Explosives, Witness etc) than it suddenly becomes a beating and disrupting machine that need some kind of response fast.

I am inclined to agree with you, and point out that the marauders are the same. If they hit the board, thats two damage for two, plus either a dead creature or three more damage in most scenarios. I run this deck and R/g Sligh, and every time I pull a Keldon Marauders in either, I rejoice. Especially Sligh:wink:

Mirrislegend
10-03-2008, 12:09 PM
I run this deck and R/g Sligh, and every time I pull a Keldon Marauders in either, I rejoice

Marauders in Boros? I must admit, my curiosity is piqued. Care to share your list?

magicmoron
10-09-2008, 11:21 PM
I have been playing some version of sligh for around 10 years and here are my thoughts. First, my list:

3 x windswept heath
2 x flooded strand
3 x bloodstain mire
2 x wooded foothills
4 x plateau
3 x mountain
2 x plains

4 x mogg fanatic
4 x isamaru, hound of konda
4 x keldon maruader
4 x jotun grunt
3 x duergar hedge mage

4 x fireblast
4 x magma jet
4 x lightning bolt
4 x chain lightning
2 x price of progress
4 x lightning helix

sb:

4 x orims chant
3 x disenchant
3 x pyroclasm
3 x abeyance
2 x price of progress

Boros is basically a sligh deck with white splash IMO. I chose to play 4 jotun grunts because I believe the basic concept of sligh is to throw down early beaters with burn back up. He will almost always be as strong as tarmogoyf early game/mid game with the added bonus of reducing tarmogoyf power/toughness, helping in the ichorid matchup, helping in the agro loam matchup, ill-gotten gains combo matchups, and random reanimators. Tarmogoyf does none of these. With 10 fetches and the 12 disposable creatures I have never experienced the need to let one go unless it was time to drop another.

The second choice that is different from the gencon list is putting keldon marauders in the goblin legionaire spot. I believe the advantage of three power over two is too great to let slide in the goblins or affinity matchup. Goblin legionaire costs three mana to get the 2 damage out of and marauders is free. I realize you can not target a creature but you should have burn in hand to take care of that and will be able to swing for the three with marauders with them taking the extra two for free from the CIP ability.

I chose mogg fanatic over savanah lions because you can always get one damage out of him even if he is just a speed bump for a tarmogoyf which savanah lions generally become outside of turn 2-3.

As far as duergar hedge mage is concerned, he ROCKS. I have never had a matchup that he sucked. Yes, in a few matchups he is a vanilla 2/2 but very few top decks don't utilize an enchantment or artifact. I destroys top/counterbalance in one fell swoop and gives you a beatstick, WOW. He can knock out that chalice for one/two. He can drop deed, two for ones in affinity, takes out vial against gobbos, and eats jittes all day long. Says bye bye to survival and vial at the same time. He is just very good.

Lightning helix helps against burn and other aggro decks making it superior to the rift bolt slot that it would take up in tarmosligh.

To the board:

The major reason I like white sligh splash is its ability to combat combo in games 2/3. Orims chant and the possibility of using abeyance while burning out your oppenent is awesome. I think it is worth looking at as a way not to punt to combo.

well I have have piloted this list to the top of many a small legacy event (20-30 people) every week and thought I would share my findings. I am open to criticism or discussion of card selection. Thanks!

Iare
10-14-2008, 04:36 AM
Well I've been working on this in my more casual play group and I may choose to tweak it for a weekly legacy tournament. As always the list then discussion :P

Boros Tech.deck

Spells- 20
4x Swords
4x Reprisal
3x Shelter
3x Pyroclasm
3x Abolish
3x Price Of progress


Creatures- 18
4x Weathered wayfarer
4x Savannah lion
4x Soltari Priest
3x Jotun grunt
3x Figure of destiny

Land- 22
12x Plains
4x Secluded Stepp
3x Mountain
1x BattleField Forge
1x Safe Haven
1x Besiju, who shelters all

Sideboard-15
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Abeyance
4x Orim's chant
1x Jotun grunt
1x Abolish
1x Maze of ith

Well I built this list in response to the increase in weenie decks in both my casual group and the local shop in general. This version basically sacrifices pure speed for being better against a wider range of decks.. Wayfarer fetches the tech I need in any given situation whether that happens to be uncounterability, protection from board sweepers, or just straight card advantage. The decks main strength is its ability to answer anything but combo game one (if they don't go empty the warrens which happens alot) while also providing a decent clock and producing card advantage all at once. This is the only aggro deck I've never lost to landstill with that alone makes me love it uncounterable price of progress = mad tech versus metagame. The sideboard was just thrown together as I think of taking this thing to the tournament friday, I realize pyroclasm should be in the board instead of maindeck but I get alot of elves/merfolk/goblins around and not losing to them game 1 is nice. Guess ill file that under metagame slot?

Anyway anyone got thoughts/comments on the deck?

GreenOne
10-14-2008, 05:47 AM
The deck is interesting, but sure as hell not a boros deck: it contains only 6 red spells (if I counted well) and exactly 3 burn spells. Seems more like white weenie with a splash for its gameplan strategy.

Boros is one of the last pure aggro decks in the format, which is awesome. You probebly should discuss this one in a new thread or in some White Weenie thread that already exists because it changes the deck from its bases, which are creatures+burn=win.

Iare
10-14-2008, 08:56 AM
Eh, I posted the deck under boros cause although my list is way out in left field I actually started with a list on this very forum and went from there. I ended up throwing in alot of cards from the porfait beatdown thread on this forum to come up with something .. Interesting but definitly not as focused as traditional boros. Both have their strengths and weaknesses I don't think I've necessarily made the deck better I've just traded one thing (speed) for another (Resiliency) which is more my personal playing style. I think it at least deserves discussion and I think this is the place to do it because its still more boros than porfait I think.

mhinsz
11-26-2008, 08:03 AM
Dark Boros - the evolution continues.

I decided that a Black splash for Bob would help my ability to topdeck more burn. I ultimately just swapped out Savanah lions from the main gencon list for this:

Dark Boros Wins

3 - Isamaru
4 - Grim Lavamancer
4 - Figure of Destiny
4 - Dark Confidant
2 - Jotun Grunt

4 - Lightning Bolt
4 - Chain Lightning
4 - Magma Jet
4 - Lightning Helix
3 - Price of Progress
3 - Fireblast

3 - Plateau
1 - Badlands
1 - Scrublands
4 - Mountain
3 - Plains
1 - Swamp
4 - Bloodstained Mire
1 - Polluted Delta
3 - Windswept Heath

Sideboard usually consists of:

3 Shattering Spree
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Pithing Needle
4 Duergar Hedge-Mage
4 Ethersworn Canonist

but can also consist of

Test of Faith
Disenchant
Angel's Song
-----------------------------------------------------------
I've been playing this list or something close to it at my weekly Legacy tourney and done quite well. However, I feel the metagame shifting towards more combo.

Ad Naseum combo and/or Tezzeret- Painter's Servant combo. The list I have hasn't performed well against those - although I have an amazing ability of having Ad Naseum players just kill themselves.

I curious if people think that this can still be a good choice in a metagame where aggro/control players are moving to combo.

Are Ethersworn Canonist and Angel's song my best bets vs. combo, or should I look at other cards. I'm relatively new to Legacy.. are there some notable Black/Red cards I could be using?

Thanks for any help.

Brehn
11-26-2008, 08:11 AM
What is Angel's Song? Both Angelsong and Angel's Grace won't do a thing against Ad Nauseam and Painter (unless the Ad Nauseam decks are running Grapeshot as their only win condition, then Angel's Grace works). Obvious anti-combo cards are Thoughtseize, Duress, Chalice of the Void, Orim's Chant (gotten worse with Ad Nauseam), Pyrostatic Pillar and Thorn of Amethyst.

mhinsz
11-26-2008, 09:53 AM
My brain and hands weren't on the same page there.

I was looking for Gilded Light.

oneiros76
12-03-2008, 04:01 PM
Has anyone tried out Cave-In is the sideboard in place of Pyrokinesis? Or for that matter Rolling Earthquake? After being pretty underwhelmed with Pyro in my sideboard but recognizing a need for some kind of card like this (against goblins, I've thrown the Pyrokinesis in again Belcher to try to hold of Empty the Warrens tokens, put in against Affinity to get Disciples, etc), and thinking about either Cave In or Rolling Earthquake, I ended up with pros/cons:
pro's:
+wipes out ALL Empty tokens
+damages players
+kills zombies from ichorid (if you aren't dead already...)

cons:

-Cave-In and Rolling Earthquake are sorcery, so can't kill Lackey on turn 1 (which isn't always a huge con, if I were to pyro its
likely that I would try to hit other cards besides just 1 for 1 on lackey)
-kills my dudes, which can be played around all wrath-style

Any thoughts?

Arakasi
01-15-2009, 04:23 PM
I've been playing this deck for the last 3 months (since I found it on "germagic"). In smaller tournaments (~20 people) I've succeeded as far as second/ fourth place, while mostly making top8.

Boros of Destiny:

4x Swrods to Plowshares
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Magma Jet
3x Price of Progress

4x Goblin Legionnaire
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Figure of Destiny
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Silver Knight
3x Mogg Fanatic
3x Jötun Grunt

4x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
4x Plateau

SB:
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Disenchant
2x Abolish
3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Red Elemental Blast

I didn't change much from the version I found on the web:
The 3 Price of Progress are my doing, as are the 3 Sulfuric Vortex.
Basically I think the deck is pretty mainstream, playing burn, good critters and burn-creatures as well as nonbasic-hate mainboard. The only interesting thing is the Figure of Destiny, which has won its share of games already. True it'll probably be killed, but if it is not it's just a really good threat.

Magus of the Moon mainboard and you won't have a problem with landstill I thought as I looked at the list first - of course it doesn't work out like that. Like the Figure the Magus has won games, but it is killed far too easily to just wreck decks (not saying it can't wreck decks).

During the time I played this deck I lost to combo, won against nearly everything creature-based and had quite a hard time with landstill.

I hope this might be inspiring to you guys.

JohnnyCage
01-15-2009, 04:34 PM
I've been playing this deck for the last 3 months (since I found it on "germagic"). In smaller tournaments (~20 people) I've succeeded as far as second/ fourth place, while mostly making top8.

Boros of Destiny:

4x Swrods to Plowshares
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Magma Jet
3x Price of Progress

4x Goblin Legionnaire
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Figure of Destiny
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3x Silver Knight
3x Mogg Fanatic
3x Jötun Grunt

4x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
4x Plateau

SB:
1x Magus of the Moon
2x Disenchant
2x Abolish
3x Sulfuric Vortex
3x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Red Elemental Blast

I didn't change much from the version I found on the web:
The 3 Price of Progress are my doing, as are the 3 Sulfuric Vortex.
Basically I think the deck is pretty mainstream, playing burn, good critters and burn-creatures as well as nonbasic-hate mainboard. The only interesting thing is the Figure of Destiny, which has won its share of games already. True it'll probably be killed, but if it is not it's just a really good threat.

Magus of the Moon mainboard and you won't have a problem with landstill I thought as I looked at the list first - of course it doesn't work out like that. Like the Figure the Magus has won games, but it is killed far too easily to just wreck decks (not saying it can't wreck decks).

During the time I played this deck I lost to combo, won against nearly everything creature-based and had quite a hard time with landstill.

I hope this might be inspiring to you guys.

Don't run swords.

GreenOne
01-15-2009, 04:52 PM
Don't run swords.

QFT.
If you have problems with landstill, just run more Vortex and Price of progress. They're really good in this matchup.
You can just play more burn in the Swords slot (Chain lightning, magma jet or fireblast).
If you really feel the need for critter removal other than burn then play the new "swords" card coming out. At least don't give them life.

JohnnyCage
01-16-2009, 12:59 AM
QFT.
If you have problems with landstill, just run more Vortex and Price of progress. They're really good in this matchup.
You can just play more burn in the Swords slot (Chain lightning, magma jet or fireblast).
If you really feel the need for critter removal other than burn then play the new "swords" card coming out. At least don't give them life.

What does QFT mean?

Phoenix Ignition
01-16-2009, 01:25 AM
What does QFT mean?

Quoted for truth.

I agree with swords sucks. Maybe Path of Exile from the new set would help out better.

JohnnyCage
01-16-2009, 01:40 AM
Quoted for truth.

I agree with swords sucks. Maybe Path of Exile from the new set would help out better.

Path would be ok but honestly boros has the ability to reach past goyf and can't loose that, goyfs dont stop grunt and mancer.

Frank The Tank
01-16-2009, 02:09 AM
Why do so many people play Isamaru? Isn't he terrible late game and when you only run 3 what are the odds you always see him early game?

GreenOne
01-16-2009, 07:43 AM
Why do so many people play Isamaru? Isn't he terrible late game and when you only run 3 what are the odds you always see him early game?
Turn 1: 32%
Turn 2: 35%
Turn 3: 39%


Path would be ok but honestly boros has the ability to reach past goyf and can't loose that, goyfs dont stop grunt and mancer.
I didn't notice: he doesn't play Lavamancer.

So, Arakasi, here's your list modified with my suggestions:

0x Swrods to Plowshares
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Magma Jet
4x Price of Progress
2-4x Chain Lightning / Fireblast

4x Goblin Legionnaire
0x Magus of the Moon
4x Figure of Destiny
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
0x Silver Knight
4x Mogg Fanatic
3x Jötun Grunt
2-4x Grim Lavamancer

4x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
4x Plateau

SB:
1-3x Magus of the Moon
0x Disenchant
0x Abolish
4x Duergar Hedge Mage
4x Sulfuric Vortex
2-3x Umezawa's Jitte
2-3x Red Elemental Blast

Card choices:
- 0 Silver knights: They're good against burn and small critters. Unfortunately Burn and red creatures are played just by Burn, UGr thresh and Goblins. It's suboptimal against all the other decks.
- 4 Figure of destiny: The deck needs a 2-power drop on turn 1. Figure of destiny is also great in the middle/late game.
- 0 magus of the moon: It can win you some matches, but there will be times you will not have 3 lands to play it, and people are already fetching basics against you due to MD Price of Progress.
- 0 Swords to plowshares: giving life to your opponent just sucks when you're trying to deal exactly 20 dmg in little time as possible. It also sucks against creature-less decks (landstill/stacks/combo/MUC...)
- 0 Disenchant/Abolish: Duergar Hedge mage is just better in those cases unless the problem is Humility. It gives a 2/2 body for free, it's difficult to Counterbalance, sometimes it kills both an artifact and an enchantment (CB+Dreadnough, Ghostly prison+Chalice@1, Seismic Assault+Mox Diamond...)
- 2-4 Grim Lavamancer: Recurring source of damage without needing the attack phase. Shrinks opponent's goyfs and a burn spell+Lavamncer activation kills Goyf/Tombstalker. It doesn't have great synergy with Grunt, but it's worth it anyway.
- +1 Price of progress, +1 Sulfuric vortex: you said you have some problems with Landstill. Those cards are here to solve those problems.
- 2-4 chain lightning/fireblast: more burn spells instead of swords to plowshares. Fits the removal slot equally well, and it's better against control decks. Fireblast is not easy on the manabase, but gives more reach, food for lavamancer/goyf and it's not Counterbalanceable.

JohnnyCage
01-17-2009, 01:33 AM
Turn 1: 32%
Turn 2: 35%
Turn 3: 39%


I didn't notice: he doesn't play Lavamancer.

So, Arakasi, here's your list modified with my suggestions:

0x Swrods to Plowshares
4x Lightning Helix
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Magma Jet
4x Price of Progress
2-4x Chain Lightning / Fireblast

4x Goblin Legionnaire
0x Magus of the Moon
4x Figure of Destiny
3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
0x Silver Knight
4x Mogg Fanatic
3x Jötun Grunt
2-4x Grim Lavamancer

4x Mountain
4x Plains
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
4x Plateau

SB:
1-3x Magus of the Moon
0x Disenchant
0x Abolish
4x Duergar Hedge Mage
4x Sulfuric Vortex
2-3x Umezawa's Jitte
2-3x Red Elemental Blast

Card choices:
- 0 Silver knights: They're good against burn and small critters. Unfortunately Burn and red creatures are played just by Burn, UGr thresh and Goblins. It's suboptimal against all the other decks.
- 4 Figure of destiny: The deck needs a 2-power drop on turn 1. Figure of destiny is also great in the middle/late game.
- 0 magus of the moon: It can win you some matches, but there will be times you will not have 3 lands to play it, and people are already fetching basics against you due to MD Price of Progress.
- 0 Swords to plowshares: giving life to your opponent just sucks when you're trying to deal exactly 20 dmg in little time as possible. It also sucks against creature-less decks (landstill/stacks/combo/MUC...)
- 0 Disenchant/Abolish: Duergar Hedge mage is just better in those cases unless the problem is Humility. It gives a 2/2 body for free, it's difficult to Counterbalance, sometimes it kills both an artifact and an enchantment (CB+Dreadnough, Ghostly prison+Chalice@1, Seismic Assault+Mox Diamond...)
- 2-4 Grim Lavamancer: Recurring source of damage without needing the attack phase. Shrinks opponent's goyfs and a burn spell+Lavamncer activation kills Goyf/Tombstalker. It doesn't have great synergy with Grunt, but it's worth it anyway.
- +1 Price of progress, +1 Sulfuric vortex: you said you have some problems with Landstill. Those cards are here to solve those problems.
- 2-4 chain lightning/fireblast: more burn spells instead of swords to plowshares. Fits the removal slot equally well, and it's better against control decks. Fireblast is not easy on the manabase, but gives more reach, food for lavamancer/goyf and it's not Counterbalanceable.

I also still like the two of Druegar Hedge mage main, he gets rid of chalice and counterbalance.

Arakasi
01-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Thanks for your help - I'll test this list a bit and tell you more if I run into anything terrible.
About the Hedge-Mages: Yeah they do generate card advantage but the do not kill humility, which pretty much neutralizes this deck (at least my old build...).
Besides what do you guys do about combo? Just accept the auto-loss?

raharu
01-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Thanks for your help - I'll test this list a bit and tell you more if I run into anything terrible.
About the Hedge-Mages: Yeah they do generate card advantage but the do not kill humility, which pretty much neutralizes this deck (at least my old build...).
Besides what do you guys do about combo? Just accept the auto-loss?
Kinda. You do have options though, namely Pyrostatic Pilar, Aethersworn Cannonist, Orim's Chant, Abeyance, Gilded Light, and Chalice of the Void. Of those options, Aethersworn Cannonist and Chalice of the Void are most effective, but they're only bump-stops, and combo comes prepared to deal with them. Of course, they slow your opponent down enough to race them.

GreenOne
01-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Thanks for your help - I'll test this list a bit and tell you more if I run into anything terrible.
About the Hedge-Mages: Yeah they do generate card advantage but the do not kill humility, which pretty much neutralizes this deck (at least my old build...).


Humility isn't heavily played. It's usually a 2of in some Landstill builds, so about what? 5% of the meta? While counterbalance is actually more widely played. There's no point in running suboptimal cards, having "the fear". Also, it's not like Landstill matchup is decided by creatures after turn 4. It's all about burn/vortex by then. And also, it's not like Humility kills your creatures dead, they're just underpowered to, say, a little less than half their power.


Besides what do you guys do about combo? Just accept the auto-loss?

Yeah.

raharu
01-18-2009, 05:34 PM
Kinda. You do have options though, namely Pyrostatic Pilar, Aethersworn Cannonist, Orim's Chant, Abeyance, Gilded Light, and Chalice of the Void. Of those options, Aethersworn Cannonist and Chalice of the Void are most effective, but they're only bump-stops, and combo comes prepared to deal with them. Of course, they slow your opponent down enough to race them.
I (and we) forgot Runed Halo and True Believer for the combo match.

JiffyWartbustle
03-11-2009, 11:49 PM
Not much activity on the thread so I figured I'd ask "the internets" for your opinion on:

Genju of the Spires (http://magiccards.info/arena/en/76.html)

Can possibly be more mana intensive than FoD, in the long run, but also puts your opponent on a much, much faster clock than FoD. It's a blocker that isn't activated until you need it and can beat Goyf 95/100 times. When it dies, the card comes back to hand making this a very expendable blocker. Same principal as Fireblast or Shard Volley, you're potentially sacrificing a land(s) to remove a significant threat and/or put a hard clock on your opponent. On paper, I think it looks amazing since you're burning clear a path for attackers and this guy does more damage than any of the other beaters in the deck.

Admittedly I haven't played it yet in a Boros deck as I am waiting for some fetchlands and my final Plateau. Does anyone have any experience using it or an opinion on playing this card in Boros?

JWB

GreenOne
03-12-2009, 06:36 AM
I was thinking about playing it in Goyfsligh just today.
Like everything, it has its pros and cons:
- It's useless until you have 3 mana, and requires 4 mana to do the first 6 damage. This might be a problem against Wasteland+Stifle decks.
- Swords to plowshares becomes LD and Creature Removal.
- It has a great un-synergy with fireblast. You either run one or the other.
- Mogg fanatic and other ping effect, little chumpblockers vanify its effect costing us a mountain and lots of tempo to attack again.

Pros:
- Beats for 6!! Races Goyf and Tombstalker all day.
- Acts as additional removal for opposing Goyfs.

In the end it's cool, but not worth it: it's a card that would substitute Fireblast, but if I'd want to substitute Fireblast there are a lot of better cards to play compared to Genju: Incinerate, Magma Jet, Keldon Marauders or Jotun Grunt.

oneiros76
03-17-2009, 03:13 PM
Genju does seem awesome/hilarious, but would be terrible for the deck, Greenone did a great job on illustrating why. I love that card and a mono red build might have room, but would probably have to swap with fireblasts or flamebreaks.

Here's some information on my GP Chicago experience also;

Here's the list that I ended up with
4x Jotun Grunt
3x Figure of Destiny
3x Grim Lavamancer
4x Mogg Fanatic
3x Goblin Legionnaire
1x Vexing Shusher
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Magma Jet
4x Price of Progress
4x Lightning Helix
3x Fireblast
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept Heath
4x Plateau
4x Mountain
2x Plains
SB
3x Duergar Hedge Mage
3x Vexing Shusher
3x Shattering Spree
4x Orim's Chant
2x Ethersworn Canonist

I ended up with a 5-3 record heartbreak style, won the first 5 rounds and lost the last 3. Rounds were:

Round 1 Mono Red Burn- 2-0. Both Games were close, second game she was stuck on 2 mountains and had two Flamebreaks in hand when my game was all creatures! I board in Orim's Chants for Price of Price of Progress

Round 2 Aggro Loam- 2-0. This matchup is very much in our favor, unless they get really early and effective Devastating Dreams. I might have made a mistake in Lightning Bolt-ing his Countryside Crusher while he had no lands to break, might have been better off just racing him, but I had a Price in hand so I figured kill him before he gets deadly. I boarded in 3x Hedge Mage and 1 or 2x Shattering Spree for a mix of Lavamancers and Legionnaires.

Round 3 Natural Order/Counterbalance Thresh- 2-1. The match was pretty straightforward, in testing I can usually race him. I made a mistake in game 2, I was at 8 with a fetch in play and a Helix in hand and him with a Progenitus in play, broke the land to play the Helix and a Lightning Bolt to go to ten instead of just the Helix to go to 11 and buy a turn. Damn you math! Sideboarded in Vexing Shushers, took out Legionnaires.

Round 4 Mono Red Painter- 2-0. Also pretty straightforward, although he might have been misplaying when putting a couple red blasts on his chrome moxes to try to race me, I ended up Lightning Bolting/ Helixing his Painters.

Round 5 Ichorid- 2-0. I love being pre-boarded against this deck! Boarded in Shattering Spree, Pithing Needles seem to be the more sideboarded card over Leyline

Round 6 Merfolk 0-2. Good games with Gaudenis Vidugiris, an American/Lithuanian pro, though he couldn't speak so much due to some awful plaguecoughthing. First match was close, but he gained control and a clock with two Spellstutter Sprites and Riptide Lab. Second one wasn't as close, I spent several turns keeping a Jitte off of his guys and digging for a Shattering Spree, which never came ;_;. Slops to maindeck Jittes!

Round 7 UWG Thresh 0-2. First game came down to topdeck, he landed two quick goyfs and I had a Shusher, end of his turn before he killed me I got him down to 2, then drew Plateau. Second was one of the few games during the tournament that I can complain about for draws, opened with one mountain and a plains, then drew a second plains and drew no Jets to fix and ended with two fireblasts. This matchup is fair for this deck though. Boarded in Shushers and Hedge Mages for Legionnaires and Fanatics.

Round 8 Ichorid 1-2. First game went as it should, my deck was being nice and feeding me several Fanatics and Grunts. Game two he does that nasty Ichorid thing and kills me with his cards. Game three goes for a decent amount of time and is a pretty good game, me trading Legionnaires and Fanatics with scary bridges, until I start hitting landslandslands. He actually cabal therapied me two or three turns in an row, seeing nothing but more lands, and he apologized as he crushed me with his mounting Ichorid force. Nice guy, but a sad way to end my GP run, losing to a matchup that is pretty favorable.

Props: Alan Hockman for being a badass t.o., the judging staff for doing a great job keeping things moving despite the ginormous turnout AND having to confirm each match result, Mike Zimmerman for fist-bumping at every possible opportunity, and again the judging/tournament staff for nailing those thieves and helping to recover everything. Also everyone that came to rock the legacy!
Slops: Rain! Bag thieves! 80 dollar moats! Drawing double plains!

Does anyone know if anyone else ran this deck at the gp? I saw one guy with it, but with cursed scrolls and moats, and heard about a couple others.

1maarten1
11-24-2009, 01:40 PM
Anyone still playing this deck? i am considering to test it with 12 fetches, the landfall cat and maybe goblin guide, thoughts on this?

Stark Heimdall
11-24-2009, 02:58 PM
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
1 Jotun Grunt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Riftbolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Helix
4 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Plateau
3 Mountain

Side:
3 Duergar Hedge-Mage
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Path's to Exile
3 ravenous Trap

JiggatheOG
11-24-2009, 03:10 PM
just play naya sligh

nacatl>jotun grunt

Gocho
11-24-2009, 05:28 PM
In our monthly tournament a Boros Deck gives the surprise making Top4, and losing in semis vs ANT. Player says that he doesn't have money for Orim's Chant/Silence. :P

For reference:
// Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
2 Sacred Foundry :eek:
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Plated Geopede
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer

// Spells
2 Final Fortune :eek:
4 Rift Bolt
2 Fireball :eek:
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 2 Ravenous Trap
SB: 4 Duergar Hedge-Mage
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 2 Pyroblast

Some cards need to be better, but with some bad elections the deck make Top4 vs Merfolks, Canadian Trash or Goblins.

mhinsz
12-26-2009, 02:23 AM
I don't like Goblin Guide in a world of Brainstorm, Sensei's Top, and Ponder.

I haven't tested much, but most of my first success in Legacy was a Dark Boros build.... and now we have the fetches to make it better:

I've been toying around with this:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Grim Lavamancer
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Figure of Destiny

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Helix
2 Price of Progress

1 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Mountain
1 Scrubland
1 Badlands
3 Plateau
2 Marsh Flats
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa

I can see Plated Geopede doing well (in the place of Figure of Destiny), as well as upping the number of Fetchlands.

A lot of the cards are flexible and can be mixed around to tailor towards metagames... specifically:

Jotun Grunt (Threshold, Dredge)
Price of Progress (less effective vs. Goblins/Merfolk)
Fireblast (Counterbalance)

anarkii
03-19-2010, 03:17 PM
The singular advantage that I would argue Boros has over Zoo is the ability to run enough fetches to further abuse Lynx and possibly Geopede. If several top Zoo lists are running Lynx with roughly 11 fetchlands, I don't see any sensible reason not to run both Geopede and Lynx, particularly given that several creatures from previous boros lists are suboptimal now (Fanatic, Legionnaire) and need replacing. Given that both Lynx and Geopede can sometimes be dead draws, I've been running Reckless Abandon in the maindeck as well so they are...less dead. I've also found path to exile to be an excellent card for this deck - it frequently enables Lynx or Geopede to connect in the early game more than once, which is usually enough.

I've been tinkering around with the following:

4 Figure of Destiny
4 Plated Geopede
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Steppe Lynx

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Magma Jet
3 Path to Exile
4 Reckless Abandon
2 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast

4 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Marsh Flats
4 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Plains

SB:
3 Duergar Hedge-Mage
3 Price of Progress
3 Disenchant
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Sulfuric Vortex

HAVE HEART
03-19-2010, 04:22 PM
You should try Wasteland/Ghost Quarter and Flagstones of Trokair.

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32478

That list took a lot of people by surprise. It creates a lot of landfall triggers, and is able to do some turn three kills. Obviously some card choices would have to change (Plateau for Sacred Foundry is one of the more obvious ones).

Azel Orfat
01-24-2011, 06:40 AM
I've being testing a few days this kind of list:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5425&iddeck=39322
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5351&iddeck=38709
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5344&iddeck=38652

I'm loving the deck and I'd like to ask you about some points.

How often is the Lynx sided out? I'd side it out against Goblins and Merfolks on the draw, due to Goblin Lackey, Daze and “mana stability”. Any more situations/matches?

So I don't know if it's better to run 3 Mountain and 3 Plateau (better for the Lynx), or 4 Mountain and 2 Plateau (better when turning the deck monored). What do you think?

I also have doubts about card choices against Combo as I have little experience in those matches. I can see that Pyrostatic Pillar is the usual choice. Isn’t Ethersworn Canonist better? May be even other choice?

humppa
01-24-2011, 07:20 AM
Hi,
I prefer 4:2 instead of 3:3.. why? Because 2 Plateaus were always enough for me so I have no reason to play more nonbasics :-)

Pyrostatic Pillar is absolutely amazing agains combo. It costs lives to return it to your hand (or destroy it).

Azel Orfat
01-24-2011, 09:32 AM
Hi humppa,

I aggre that 2 Plateau are enough. The problem is that it's as dissapointing to draw a hand with Mountain,Fetch, Lynx than to draw a hand with Plateau when I've boarded out the Lynx.

About Pillar, then, do u prefer it over Canonist? I think Pillar is also a good choice but it can be removed by duress. Also Ange's Grace could be a problem but I think that it's a very unusaul choice, right? On the other hand, Pillar can make enough damage to be able to finish the game as you said.

I think I'm gonna opt for Canonist and 4 Mountain/2 Plateau. Anyway, it'd be great to hear more opinions.

humppa
01-24-2011, 09:44 AM
Plateau with Lynx sideboarded out is not an issues, isn't it? :-)
Hand with mountain, fetch and Lynx is a little bit frustrating, but.. the only solution could be to increase the number of fetchlands, what we cannot do :) shit happens and this is not an usually first hand.

Pillar could be duressed, but Canonist coud be deathmarked. There is no big difference. So yes, I prefer Pillar over Canonist.

Try canonist and send some feedback! It will be interesting! :-)

Azel Orfat
01-24-2011, 02:09 PM
Plateau with Lynx sideboarded out is not an issues, isn't it? :-)

Well, if I board them out against Merfolks (on the draw), it is for being able to play only mountains and then, waste is not a problem (easier to fight against curse, daze, sspierce). Therefore, I meant that in those cases I'd like that Plateau were a Mountain and the opposite when I have the Lynx in.


Try canonist and send some feedback! It will be interesting! :-)

Sure, if I have the opportunity to use it.

spedn7
04-23-2011, 10:26 AM
Hey i play boros in standard and was wondering what the current deck lists look like for legacy and what would you consider the core of the deck

Azel Orfat
04-23-2011, 05:20 PM
You can check it here: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/tipo.php?archetype=Boros&format=Legacy I think most of them are just Burn decks with a little splash for Lynx

TheProfessor
09-26-2011, 10:10 AM
Has anybody tried to revive this deck? With the absence of MM it would be pretty good?

Using the following decklist?

Creatures (14)
4- Goblin Guide
3- Figure of Destiny
4- Stoneforge Mystic
3- Grim Lavamancer

Spells (22)
4- Lightning Bolt
4- Chain Lightning
4- Lightning Helix
4- Path to Exile
4- Price of Progress
2- Fireblast

Artifacts (3)
1- Batterskull
1- Basilisk Collar
1- Sword of Feast and Famine

Lands (21)
3- Woodedfoothills
4- Arid Mesa
4- Scalding Tarn
4- Plateau
5- Mountains
1- Plains

What do you guys think?

SB options?
Ethersworn Cannonist?

Krondo9
09-26-2011, 11:06 AM
This deck will just autolose to a fast combo deck. This is more of a modern/extended deck than it is a legacy deck.

Sigar
09-26-2011, 11:27 AM
Are you kidding? Zoo is not dead at all, and if build right, Boros will have a goldfish that is quicker on average. Storm combo mostly relies on Ad Nauseam, so red spells are not irrelevant. Furthermore, you can load the board with blasts against High Tide, and a turn 2 Canonist backed up by a very fast clock isn't what I would call "auto lose".

TheProfessor
09-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Hi Krondo9

Like any deck in legacy there is nothing perfect :D

There will be vulnerabilities and strengths that will be very evident, in this case this deck is weak against combo. The question is needed to be done to improve it? Which is the point of this forum. So we can discuss the various designs and changes so we can improve on weaknesses? :D

nightmaster
09-26-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm not sure I like Batterskull in a Boros sligh shell. I feel like it slows down the deck to much and can't be protected and exploited as well as it can in say Team Italia. Think about it. If you turn two Stoneforge turn 3 Batterskull that's two turns your not doing damage. Ya, it gives you a late game but I would either try to not let it enter late game or rely on Figure of Destiny or Grim Lavamancer. For reference, I ran this about a week ago to a top 4 in a small weekly tournament.

Creatures:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Goblin Guide
3 Mirran Crusader

Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Magma Jet
3 Fireblast

Land: 22
Can't remember exact configuration. Did run 11-12 fetches.

Beat Dredge, Team America, and 2 Merfolk. Lost to UW Stoneblade though MM played a huge role in slowing me down. In the future I would drop a Figure for more burn to speed things up a bit since you don't want Figure in your opening hand.

One thing I have been considering is adding black for Dark Confidant to provide some card draw. Your life total doesn't matter too much since your a sligh deck. I am, however, having trouble picking a some slots. Here is what I am thinking:

Creatures: 12
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Dark Confidant

Spells: 16
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Helix

Land: 20

Open Slots: 12

For creatures, I am thinking about Goblin Guide, Figure of Destiny, Plated Geopede, and Mirran Crusader. If Geopede was included, more land would be needed for landfall triggers. Also, more burn should be probably be added, options like Chain Lightning, Rift Bolt, Incinerate, and stranger options like Searing Blaze and Blightning. Thoughts?

Rizso
09-26-2011, 09:45 PM
When I ran this deck for a about a year and a half ago, I ran the extended tech of Flagestones for Trokair and Ghoast Quarters to get thoes double fetch triggers of that turn 1 lynx or t2 Geopede. It could get some really explosive draws with a couple of turn 3 kills, when using Zektar Shrine Expedition with Flagestones and Quarters.

Hireax
04-06-2012, 08:06 AM
Hi fellows. This thread seemed pretty much dead to me, but I'd like to bring it back alive :).

I've been following magic and it's evolution for the past couple of years without having the money to spend on Legacy. Slowly I'd like to get a bit more competitive and do some serious testing. Boros and it's colors are the things I love about magic. The explosiveness of red in combination with the semi-controlishness of white are what makes a versatile deck for me.

Although I am fairly new to this type of deck construction in a highly competitive format I'd like to hear opinions on a build that I have been pondering about..

So here is what I want to start testing from the forthcoming week onwards:
Boros Deck Wins
Creatures [18]
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Figure of Destiny
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Mirran Crusader

Spells [21]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
3 Magma Jet
2 Fireblast

Land [21]
4 Plateau
4 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Marsh Flats

//Sideboard [15]
3 Shattering Spree
4 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 red elemental blast
2 Path to Exile


This is more or less a rough sketch of what I had in mind. Do people believe it can be at least fairly competitive in the EUROPEAN meta of today? As said I've followed deck development, but not so much actual tournament play.

Cards to consider might be:
Smash to Smithereen 3 dmg extra and wrecking Chalice/Swords/BSkull might be really good..
Serra Avenger Is she worth it nowadays? T4 play might be somewhat late no?
Aether Vial Might it be worth it at this point to include Vial? It accelerates our output from T2 onwards, but the deck might too heavily rely on 1-drops.

Further cards could be added, but those three sprang to mind immediately.

Dmnd
04-08-2012, 03:26 PM
Hey,

i really would like to see how you perform on Tournaments with it.
I am Playing Mono Red Burn/Slight so i am asking you, what makes this Deck better than Mono Red slight?

I wouldn't play Swords. Pathes should fit better. You Stepplinx wants to deal fast damage. And then you sword a big creature of the enemy and the hole dmg is negated. Doesn't seems that great. Same for Goblin Guide.
What about Plated Geopede ?

reagrds

sillyandrew
05-10-2012, 12:22 AM
When I ran this deck for a about a year and a half ago, I ran the extended tech of Flagestones for Trokair and Ghoast Quarters to get thoes double fetch triggers of that turn 1 lynx or t2 Geopede. It could get some really explosive draws with a couple of turn 3 kills, when using Zektar Shrine Expedition with Flagestones and Quarters.

what does an ideal flagstones + ghost quarter manabase look like? do you cut back on fetch lands for it?

ScatmanX
05-10-2012, 08:34 AM
When I ran this deck for a about a year and a half ago, I ran the extended tech of Flagestones for Trokair and Ghoast Quarters to get thoes double fetch triggers of that turn 1 lynx or t2 Geopede. It could get some really explosive draws with a couple of turn 3 kills, when using Zektar Shrine Expedition with Flagestones and Quarters.
That's called Brozek Boros, and the list and some explanation can be found here: http://www.blackborder.com/q/node/5667
Of course some cards should be adjusted to legacy, but the shell is pretty much the same.
I wonder if Assault Strobe could fit here, since it's awesome with Lynx and Zektar Shrine.

jares
05-15-2012, 03:47 AM
That's called Brozek Boros, and the list and some explanation can be found here: http://www.blackborder.com/q/node/5667
Of course some cards should be adjusted to legacy, but the shell is pretty much the same.
I wonder if Assault Strobe could fit here, since it's awesome with Lynx and Zektar Shrine.
I'll be messing around with this list:

//Lands = 23
[4x] Arid Mesa
[4x] Plateau
[4x] Flagstones of Trokair
[4x] Ghost Quarter
[4x] Scalding Tarn
[2x] Mountain
[1x] Plains

//Permanent Threats = 20
[4x] Goblin Guide
[4x] Steppe Lynx
[4x] Plated Geopede
[4x] Zektar Shrine Expedition
[2x] Jotun Grunt
[2x] Figure of Destiny

//Spells = 17
[4x] Lightning Bolt
[4x] Chain Lightning
[4x] Lightning Helix
[3x] Path to Exile
[2x] Shard Volley

It still looks like it won't mean much in the Legacy meta, but at least I'll be able to have fun with Zektar Shrine Expedition. :tongue:

Cheers,
jares

jares
05-15-2012, 11:21 PM
I'll be messing around with this list:

//Lands = 23
[4x] Arid Mesa
[4x] Plateau
[4x] Flagstones of Trokair
[4x] Ghost Quarter
[4x] Scalding Tarn
[2x] Mountain
[1x] Plains

//Permanent Threats = 20
[4x] Goblin Guide
[4x] Steppe Lynx
[4x] Plated Geopede
[4x] Zektar Shrine Expedition
[2x] Jotun Grunt
[2x] Figure of Destiny

//Spells = 17
[4x] Lightning Bolt
[4x] Chain Lightning
[4x] Lightning Helix
[3x] Path to Exile
[2x] Shard Volley

It still looks like it won't mean much in the Legacy meta, but at least I'll be able to have fun with Zektar Shrine Expedition. :tongue:

Cheers,
jares
I tried this list last night, and as I saw for myself, this game plan isn't able to keep up with the legacy meta. Seems to be pretty good for the Modern meta though.

Cheers,
jares

Basara
05-16-2012, 02:19 AM
I'll be messing around with this list:

//Lands = 23
[4x] Arid Mesa
[4x] Plateau
[4x] Flagstones of Trokair
[4x] Ghost Quarter
[4x] Scalding Tarn
[2x] Mountain
[1x] Plains

//Permanent Threats = 20
[4x] Goblin Guide
[4x] Steppe Lynx
[4x] Plated Geopede
[4x] Zektar Shrine Expedition
[2x] Jotun Grunt
[2x] Figure of Destiny

//Spells = 17
[4x] Lightning Bolt
[4x] Chain Lightning
[4x] Lightning Helix
[3x] Path to Exile
[2x] Shard Volley

It still looks like it won't mean much in the Legacy meta, but at least I'll be able to have fun with Zektar Shrine Expedition. :tongue:

Cheers,
jares
Mirran crusader looks really slow for a sligh/burn list like this , you should be trying to add keldon marauders or hellspark elemental , or adding maybe storm blood berserker , he is evasive damage...i tested him in legacy boros and he seems nice , with lots of 1 drops we have...

jares
05-16-2012, 03:14 AM
Mirran crusader looks really slow for a sligh/burn list like this , you should be trying to add keldon marauders or hellspark elemental , or adding maybe storm blood berserker , he is evasive damage...i tested him in legacy boros and he seems nice , with lots of 1 drops we have...
Yeah, those creatures sound like they would be more reliable. The list that I was testing was playing around with the Landfall mechanic, and it was very "swingy". :tongue:

Cheers,
jares

sillyandrew
05-31-2012, 01:24 AM
my local shop has a lot of slow/midrange/control lists, so i've been doing a lot of playtesting with boros deck wins.

as far as its mana base, i think the flagstones + ghost quarter set-up, while potentially explosive, is just too inconsistent to really keep up in legacy. also, if your creature gets removed, you've just wasted a lot of effort, and potentially mana-screwed yourself.

i've been testing this list, and plan on bringing it to my local event this friday.


4 steppe lynx
4 goblin guide
4 vexing devil
4 keldon marauders
3 grim lavamancer
1-2 durgar hedge-mage

1-2 umezawa's jitte

4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 path to exile

4 chain lightnining
or
2 fireblast
2 price of progress

4 arid mesa
4 marsh flats
4 scalding tarn
3 mountain
3 plains
4 plateau

turn one: plateau, steppe lynx, turn two: fetch, red source, guide/devil, guide/devil is the sickest early game you could hope for.

also, there are a few nic fit players at my stone, and bolting an explorer pre-damage step on the same turn you drop and crack a fetch means steppe lynx swings for eight. pretty nasty stuff.

i can't really decide on the 4 chain or 2 fireblast/2 pop, and both set-ups have proven pretty strong.

report to follow.

EDIT: the event didn't fire this week. maybe next week.

ghostfire86
06-29-2012, 01:31 PM
I've been running boros for a few years now and my deck has slowly transitioned as time progressed.

4 figure of destiny
4 student of warfare
4 goblin guide
4 stoneforge mystic
4 mirran crusader
2 soltari guerrillas

2 basilisk collar
1 sword of Fire and Ice
1 batterskull

4 lightning bolt
2 lightning helix
4 swords to plowshare

4 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
1 Kor Haven
4 Flagstone of Trokair
2 Maze of Ith
4 Plateau
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Mountain

sb/
1 Shattering Spree
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Runed Halo
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Volcannic Fallout
2 Wrath of God

Overall at local tournements this usually takes top 8. I know this is not a "Boros Deck Wins" variation due to speed differences. Also, I don't use grave control for this deck at the moment (mostly due to area meta).

Unless, current meta changes I must say that Mirran Crusader is officially a staple for this arch type. With Green and Black splashed decks all over he gives massive advantage. Stillmoon Cavalier will just have to wait till a change in format.

Soltari Guerrillas is a card that no one ever seems to expect let alone knows that it exists. With its unique ability it flawlessly syncs with any equips i have.

Steppe Lynx is a nice card however I have had to many games go for extended periods while playing Boros. Landfall abilities are of no use in mid to late game.

Magma Jet is a very nice care 2 mana 2 damage and scry 2. Ive considered this for inclusion in the past and will have to play test.

I want to include Grim Lavamancer into this to combo with Basilisk Collar, but at the moment I have not had time to really play test.

ReinVos
06-29-2012, 08:24 PM
This is an updated version of a list I toyed around with last year. In metagames where you expect a lot of Lightning Bolt decks, this is a legitimate contender. Lightning Helix is the nuts against them.

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Goblin Guide
4 Vexing Devil
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Plateau
2 Mountain

It's a very aggressive list. I've designed the manabase in a way that benefits the conditional creatures (Lavamancer and Lynx) most. This deck doesn't really care for Stifle. If it happens it happens. This deck curves out at two and has almost 30 one mana spells in it.

Path to Exile is unfortunately a must because this deck relies on attacks more than regular burn does. Big roadblocks that can't be bolted must be dealt with because there's insufficient burn to kill them from from a relatively safe life totals, as well as too many dead draws once the roadblock lands.

KazinMtg
02-08-2013, 03:18 AM
With the new Boros Charm, I think we can take this deck in a much more agressive route. The deck I'm testing plays just like red deck wins, just splash white for a few goodies that do it better than the red cards can.

4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Grim Lavamancer

4 Boros Charm
4 Flame Rift
2 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress

4 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain


Let me know what you think!

SirTylerGalt
02-08-2013, 05:46 AM
With the new Boros Charm, I think we can take this deck in a much more agressive route. The deck I'm testing plays just like red deck wins, just splash white for a few goodies that do it better than the red cards can.

4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Grim Lavamancer

4 Boros Charm
4 Flame Rift
2 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress

4 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain


Let me know what you think!

Drew Levin posted an interesting Boros deck in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25605_Gatecrash-Legacy-Review-A-Deck-Recommendation.html

Sadly, it's a premium article, which means it won't be available for free until March 1st... I don't think it is right to repost his decklist here, so I will just say that his list has some similarity with the modern Boros landfall deck ( http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40352 ), with Steppe Lynx + Zektar Shrine Expedition (which is great with Boros Charm :)), combined with Ghost Quarter and Flagstones of Trokair to trigger Landfall (playing a second Flagstones gets you 3 landfall, since both go to the graveyard due to the legend rule... same with Ghost Quarter targeting Flagstones).

Aside from that, his list has a lot of similarities with your list, with Steppe Lynx, Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide, and lots of burn :)

KazinMtg
02-08-2013, 01:17 PM
Drew Levin posted an interesting Boros deck in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/25605_Gatecrash-Legacy-Review-A-Deck-Recommendation.html

Sadly, it's a premium article, which means it won't be available for free until March 1st... I don't think it is right to repost his decklist here, so I will just say that his list has some similarity with the modern Boros landfall deck ( http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40352 ), with Steppe Lynx + Zektar Shrine Expedition (which is great with Boros Charm :)), combined with Ghost Quarter and Flagstones of Trokair to trigger Landfall (playing a second Flagstones gets you 3 landfall, since both go to the graveyard due to the legend rule... same with Ghost Quarter targeting Flagstones).

Aside from that, his list has a lot of similarities with your list, with Steppe Lynx, Grim Lavamancer, Goblin Guide, and lots of burn :)

Thanks for the reply! One of these days I'm going to splurge on some scg premium so I can actually read some of this stuff. Zektar Shrine Expedition seems very cool. Like you said, especially with boros charm. 4 mana 14 damage? dont mind if i do.

As for the flagstone trick, I actually playtested that a bit and didnt like it. There isnt enough white in the deck to make it worthwhile imo, and more often than not you draw 1 and not the other, and its a giant waste that hurts your manabase. I feel a lot more comfortable when all my land produces red mana.

Thanks for the input though, I really want to try out the shrine. What do you think about searing blaze to stick with the landfall plan? What do you think could be taken out?

SirTylerGalt
02-08-2013, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the reply! One of these days I'm going to splurge on some scg premium so I can actually read some of this stuff. Zektar Shrine Expedition seems very cool. Like you said, especially with boros charm. 4 mana 14 damage? dont mind if i do.

As for the flagstone trick, I actually playtested that a bit and didnt like it. There isnt enough white in the deck to make it worthwhile imo, and more often than not you draw 1 and not the other, and its a giant waste that hurts your manabase. I feel a lot more comfortable when all my land produces red mana.

Thanks for the input though, I really want to try out the shrine. What do you think about searing blaze to stick with the landfall plan? What do you think could be taken out?

Searing Blaze is awesome, but it does nothing against creature-less opponents :/ You could play it main deck if you had Brainstorm and Ponder to filter the top of your library. Since you don't play blue, I think it should be in the sideboard. That said, Caleb Durward posted a BR burn deck with maindeck Searing Blaze a few weks ago on channelfireball.com. So why not.

rnightingale
02-09-2013, 08:18 AM
Here's the Boros portion in Drew Levin's Article




Steppe Lynx Combo
Drew Levin
0th Place at Test deck on 1/27/2013
Legacy


Creatures (12)

4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
Planeswalkers (1)

1 Koth of the Hammer
Lands (23)

2 Mountain
4 Arid Mesa
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Plateau
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Flagstones of Trokair
Spells (24)

4 Zektar Shrine Expedition
4 Boros Charm
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike




The clear ideal here is Steppe Lynx + Boros Charm for a ton of damage. You have Zektar Shrine Expedition as a Blistering Firecat that can occasionally attack for fourteen on turn 3, and you have the traditional suite of awesome burn spells.

It's not clear that the incentives are good enough to pull you away from Mono-Red Burn. Burn gives you full protection from Wasteland and color screw, which turns out to be a big deal in a format as fast as Legacy. That's because people tend to cut down on their mana bases in order to fit in enough action to consistently compete with the most aggressive combo decks, leading to vulnerability to Wasteland strategies. Burn getting to sidestep that whole discussion is more valuable than most people recognize.

We could also try to fit Boros Charm into Zoo, but that deck really doesn't want more than eight two-drops, meaning we'd be cutting either Thalia, Gaddock Teeg, or Qasali Pridemage from the maindeck to fit in a two-mana card that we are almost never casting on turn 2.

One place where a few Boros Charms might actually be useful is in the sideboard of U/W/R Miracles for the BUG Control matchup. Tundra decks have historically had a problem fighting Liliana of the Veil. Boros Charm answers her without spending multiple cards. It also crosses over to protect Jace from Maelstrom Pulse and Counterbalance / Detention Sphere / Oblivion Ring / Angel token from Abrupt Decay. If there's a place for Boros Charm, it might well be in a deck with no Plateaus at all.

KazinMtg
02-10-2013, 03:48 AM
What do you guys think about a couple jotun grunts in the deck, possibly replacing 2x lavamancer? They seem like they could be pretty explosive, especially since we run a lot of burn and sac lands. It also will ruin someones goyf or deathrite shaman.

JDK
02-10-2013, 07:35 AM
What do you guys think about a couple jotun grunts in the deck, possibly replacing 2x lavamancer? They seem like they could be pretty explosive, especially since we run a lot of burn and sac lands. It also will ruin someones goyf or deathrite shaman.

I run them in my Modern build instead of Lavamancers, but I have to do more testing though.

Zilla
06-12-2013, 02:07 PM
This thread has been closed. You can find the updated Boros thread here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26209-Deck-Boros).