Worlds

[cdr]

There's no way I'm missing Worlds this time.

I'm actually thinking about renting a car and driving. I could fly, but it looks rough to get from the hotels in NJ to the ferry without a ride.

Anyone else planning to go down? Finding people to drive down with would push me a lot more towards driving.

FYI, legacy events:

Thursday 1:00pm $10
iPod Legacy – Legacy Constructed – Vroom!
Sponsored by Strike Zone
Swiss +1 Tournament. No Single Elimination finals. Prizes based on final standings after Swiss + 1 Rounds.
The winning player receives an 160gb iPod, 2nd = 80g, 3rd and 4th each receive iPod Shuffle, remaining prizes are current set boosters.

Saturday 3:00pm $10
"Box" Constructed – Legacy Constructed – Vroom!
Limited to 64 players
Swiss +1 Tournament. No Single Elimination finals. Prizes based on final standings after Swiss + 1 Rounds.
Winning player receives 2 Current set Boxes, 2nd place receives 1 Box, remaining prizes are current set Boosters

Saturday 4:00pm $40
Magic Art Prints – Urza Block Sealed
Limited to 32 players
1 Urza's Saga Tournament Pack, 1 Uzra's Legacy Boosters and 1 Urza's Destiny Booster.
Swiss +1 Tournament. No Single Elimination finals. Prizes based on final standings after Swiss + 1 Rounds.
The Winning player receives a Magic canvas art print, rest of top 8 receive a Magic art print, remaining prizes are Urza Block Boosters.

Public event schedule here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=events/magic/worlds-07publicevents).

[Happy Gilmore]

I need an ipod...this could give me an excuse to go there and trade, which is really what I want to do.

[TheAardvark]

Don't forget the alternate art foil Mirari's Wake you get just for showing up.

[mikekelley]

Oh man, I'd love to do that Urza block draft.

[calosso]

I am going; it's too bad that hotels are so expensive up there.

[Lego]

I'll be doing the staying with my brother thing, so if anyone wants a ride from Boston, do the letting me know thing.

[darkalucard]

i might be interested it depends on how much $$$ i would have to put up.

[cdr]

I can go through Rochester, Syracuse, and then through Binghamton/Scranton or Albany.

The car round trip would be ~70-90 per person, hotel would be about 150 total per person for Tuesday night through Sunday. Then misc costs like ferry, food etc. Really very reasonable.

Please do let me know if you're interested, I need to finalize plans soon. I have to know you or have someone vouch for you (I think I've met most people, though).

[Shriekmaw]

I can go through Rochester, Syracuse, and then through Binghamton/Scranton or Albany.

The car round trip would be ~70-90 per person, hotel would be about 150 total per person for Tuesday night through Sunday. Then misc costs like ferry, food etc. Really very reasonable.

Please do let me know if you're interested, I need to finalize plans soon. I have to know you or have someone vouch for you (I think I've met most people, though).


I was wondering if you had some people together for the trip to Worlds b/c I was interesting in going down. I might just go down by myself, but if a group of people was going from either Rochester or Syracuse I'm very interested. Let me know.

[legacyplayer0]

I'm definitely going to try my best to be there.

[Versus]

I live 20 miles from the city. It just so happens that 20 miles is the furthest I'll travel to get my ass beat by better players. I'll be there!

[cdr]

Since no one ever got serious about driving, I'm flying down and staying at a hostel.

See you there.

[Versus]

I'm curious about something. I've never played in a big event, is it customary to drop at a certain point if you aren't doing well? I mean I know people did at States and the like, but I just wanna face as many decks as possible and get games in, win or lose. Is that frowned upon or something? There were some stories over at WotC about people giving/getting shit for staying in with 0-2 (or worse) records. I don't give a shit about that. but if it's a courtesy thing or whatever then I'll drop, no big deal.

[cdr]

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/askthepro/1107

Most people drop when they have nothing more to gain.

If you have a different motive for playing than prizes, that's fine, but "serious" players don't. Also, by playing on you're further risking your rating.

[Versus]

Oh alright, thanks for the link. I don't have access to MWS or anything so I never get to play Legacy. Besides reading Primers and threads posted here I don't really even know how a combo deck goes off for instance. Just to experience these other decks would be a "gain" for me and give me some experience when facing them again in the future.

I can't say I'm all that concerned with my rating. Since you brought it up though, what "K" would these events be?

[AnwarA101]

To anyone who is going to Worlds and playing in the Legacy Side Events, can you try and see if you can at least get the T8 decklists for these tournaments? It would be nice to include this data for the Historical T8 thread as I'm sure most of these tournaments will have more than 33 people. It will be interesting to see what kind of results we get from such side events.

[insertnamehere]

I am planning on going down for a few days. Thank God I wirk for a bus company (free transportation>Cost of driving and parking) Most of Necro will be there.

[cdr]

To anyone who is going to Worlds and playing in the Legacy Side Events, can you try and see if you can at least get the T8 decklists for these tournaments?

I'll see what I can do. I'm working sides Saturday and Sunday so I can probably get the Saturday legacy lists.

[Versus]

Would anyone happen to know if there is a place for people to watch games? In otherwords if I bring my wife would she even be within eye shot or would I be at some long table in a room with only players allowed?

[cdr]

Sides are generally pretty open and chaotic, so she should probably be able to stand/sit right behind you most of the time. That might not always be the case for something like a PTQ, though.

Plus you can watch Worlds, see artists, and gunsling with various pros and WotC guys - there's lots to do.

[Lego]

To anyone who is going to Worlds and playing in the Legacy Side Events, can you try and see if you can at least get the T8 decklists for these tournaments? It would be nice to include this data for the Historical T8 thread as I'm sure most of these tournaments will have more than 33 people. It will be interesting to see what kind of results we get from such side events.

I'm working side events Friday, but there are no Legacy tournaments on Friday. If I happen to be around Thursday or Saturday for the events, I'll ask anyway.

[Versus]

Sides are generally pretty open and chaotic, so she should probably be able to stand/sit right behind you most of the time. That might not always be the case for something like a PTQ, though.

Plus you can watch Worlds, see artists, and gunsling with various pros and WotC guys - there's lots to do.

Cool, thanks. I was worried she might be bored to death.

I may be going on Thursday Anwar. I'll try to get the lists, but not really sure who I'd ask to get them. I'll see what I can do. Do you think there will be many people there at 1:00pm on a work day?

[freakish777]

So who else can't wait to netdeck the Standard list Nassif is playing?

Pyromancer's Swath + Grapeshot? Sign me up.

[Nihil Credo]

The deck has existed for several months, FYI. Some minimal Googling will find it for you.

[Deep6er]

Just look up OzzyStorm. It's the new incarnation of Perilous Storm. It was hilarious at States.

[Wallace]

Here ya go (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Pyromancer%27s+Swath+%2B+Grapeshot&btnG=Search), can't wait to give this combo a try!!!

[Anusien]

Helmut Summersberg, my pick, is currently X-1. He won Lille.

Finkel and Zvi are X-1, Kai is 0-4. Dave Williams is X-0, PChapin is X-1.

[Wallace]

Here's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/stundefeated) the day one, undefeated, standard deck lists.

[TeenieBopper]

Finkel and Zvi are X-1, Kai is 0-4. Dave Williams is X-0, PChapin is X-1.

That's awesome. I want Finkel to top 8 so bad.

How is Zvi in the tournament? I thought WotC employees weren't allowed to play? Or did he leave the company?

[Wallace]

That's awesome. I want Finkel to top 8 so bad.

How is Zvi in the tournament? I thought WotC employees weren't allowed to play? Or did he leave the company?

As far as I know, WOC employees can play, if thay can't, it might have something to do with being in the hall of fame?

[freakish777]

Uh, WotC employees CANNOT play in sanctioned tournaments. Zvi is playing because his intership is already over (and has been for a year or so).

[Wallace]

This is great, check out this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/fm2) match. Shows how sick the Pyromancer's combo can be...

[TeenieBopper]

Uh, WotC employees CANNOT play in sanctioned tournaments. Zvi is playing because his intership is already over (and has been for a year or so).

Oh, it was an internship. I thought it was a full time position.

[Silverdragon]

ARGH I hate Wizards coverage! It is sooooo slow! I mean it's past 8pm and the last update was at 3pm, wtf?
Anyway somewhere they said that Zvi has prepared something special for the Legacy portion and he has been testing Legacy more than any other format lately. Maybe we'll see a new "Solution" from him?

[Shriekmaw]

Here's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/stundefeated) the day one, undefeated, standard deck lists.


The Top 8's deck were not impressive at all. It's pretty much what I expected following the metagame after Champs and the Grand Prix.

I'm pretty sure that the Legacy players don't give a crap about Type 2.

I'm interested in seeing the Legacy decks on Day 3.

[Sims]

ARGH I hate Wizards coverage! It is sooooo slow! I mean it's past 8pm and the last update was at 3pm, wtf?
Anyway somewhere they said that Zvi has prepared something special for the Legacy portion and he has been testing Legacy more than any other format lately. Maybe we'll see a new "Solution" from him?


I call Turboland v2.0c

[Xero]

Does anyone know what happened at the ipod Legacy event?

[Soto]

Herberholz, Nassif, Finkel, Williams, Maher, Amiel, Michael Jacob and I played:
4Dragonstorm
4Bogarden Hellkite
3Pyromancers Swath
4Grapeshot
4Incinerate
3Rift Bolt
2Tarfire
4Shock
4Rite of Flame
4Lotus Bloom
4Spinerock Knoll
4Molten Slagheap
4Fungal Reaches
12Snow-Covered Mountains

SB:
4Dodecapods
3Sulferous Blast
2Ancient Grudge
2Emtpy the Warrens
2Ignite Memories
2Wheel of Fate

Look for my article Monday.

Heezy, Nassif, Wiliams, Amiel, Finkel, and myself all went 4-1 (and Maher should have been...)

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=306009&start=25

[freakish777]

I'm guessing Nassif and Chapin make it into T8 (they're both sitting 9-2 after 11 rounds with only the Legacy portion left).

Didn't Nassif 9th at Lille and only miss out on breakers?

[TeenieBopper]

http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/images/worlds07/wake.jpg

Holy mother of jesus tap dancing motherfucking christ. I want one of those so bad. Like, more than that. I'll give up my first born. I'll give up your first born.

[FoolofaTook]

ARGH I hate Wizards coverage! It is sooooo slow! I mean it's past 8pm and the last update was at 3pm, wtf?
Anyway somewhere they said that Zvi has prepared something special for the Legacy portion and he has been testing Legacy more than any other format lately. Maybe we'll see a new "Solution" from him?

Zvi goes back to the single format, although he was very young then. I don't doubt that he has something very special prepared. He was one of my favorite testing partners back in the day and he specialized in perverse recursive themes. He wanted to make you laugh when he combo'd off.

[SuckerPunch]

As soon as the tournament is over that is.

I'm sure there's a good number of legacy players attending worlds.

We would all love to get the scoop on what the best performing decks at the tournament are.

[Atwa]

I think we all are very curious. I know I'm reloading the wizards.com website like every 5 minutes to check if they've updated any information about legacy.

They've already played the first round (and I think the second round should also have ended by now).

I should be going to bed, since I have to get up early tomorrow, but I really can't stop thinking: "they'll post something about legacy in the next couple of minutes". Too bad I've been thinking like that for over 2 hours now.

Nah, I think I am going to watch some porn and check in after that. If there still isn't anything online after that, I'll take a look at it tomorrow :tongue:

[Zuriya]

I hope Lachmann is successful. He won a PT with Slivers , how cool is that ?

[goobafish]

From the Podcast I am listening to: Wafo-Tapo is playing mono red aggro and I think the swiss team is going to be playing mono-white stax.

[Machinus]

the swiss team is going to be playing mono-white stax.

!!!

Sounds pretty sweet to me.

[Wallace]

Prediction, Round 14 feature match:

Table 16 - Mowshowitz, Zvi S [USA]27 vs. Kastle, Darwin [USA]27
I would love to sit and watch this one!!!!

[Phantom]

Wafo-Tapo is playing mono red aggro

Gogo Dragon Stompy!

[goobafish]

He said it had blood moons and magus of the moons.

[Nihil Credo]

Craig Jones said he'll play "a very complicated Stuart Wright special" - that sounds promising, since I have a lot of respect for Wright as a deck designer.

Edit: Some more stuff from the podcast at the top tables:

- Christoph Hubert (CHE) and some Japanese players are running White Stax decks
- Rubens Campana (BRA) plays Thresh
- Yoshitaka Nakano and Masami Kaneko are both playing Belcher... with Spoils of the Vault, apparently.
- Gabriel Nassif vs. Jim Herold is a Landstill mirror, with Nassif running 4C and Herold having Crucible and Waste
- Kazuya Mitamura is playing MUC
- Chapin plays Counterbalance Control
- Nicolai Herzog is playing a Red Aggro deck with a curve on 1-2cc that is getting raped by Chapin
- Helmut Summersberger plays Threshold
- Katsuhiro Mori is playing a Tomoharu Saito design, a UWB Trinket Mage control deck
- Jim Herold and Saul Aguado have met into an Ichorid mirror
- Makahito Mihara (ex-World Champion) plays Loam-Confinement
- Mattias Kettil of Sweden is playing UG Thresh
- Gerar Godinez Estrada plays a Survival deck with black mana
- Amiel Tenenbaum runs Dragon Stompy, as recommended by Wafo-Tapa

(Money quote: Ben Coleman is explaining Dragon Stompy and mentions: "it's a very interesting deck, it's got things like Rakdos Pit-Dragon in it..."; Rich Hagon: "Who? What? When? Why?!")

- Sebastian Thaler is running some heavy-blue control deck with Tarmogoyfs
- Elisha Amir has a deck with CounterTop and Goyf
- Hong Fei Yung is running R/G Life from the Loam, possibly 43 lands
- Florian Pils is running Mono-Red Aggro
- Panaiotis Zacharaias plays Solidarity

[Cait_Sith]

He said it had blood moons and magus of the moons.

You must have misheard him. He said it has "Fuck Landstill" and "Doublefuck Landstill."

That Mirari's Wake is like... super good. I am going to have to make a Wake deck if I get a playset of those.

[Wallace]

Here's a look a Enchantress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQPO6H4Ejk&eurl=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/welcome), Luis Scott-Vargas is 3-0 with it right now!! Really funny to listen to the conv0 about everyone is playing thresh or Landstill and to here Brian David Marshal ask "Whats Sea Drake?" when they were talking about Faerie Stompie.

[Eldariel]

Heh, he beat the guy playing Faerie Stompy with my Sea Drakes last round :(

[TeenieBopper]

That Mirari's Wake is like... super good. I am going to have to make a Wake deck if I get a playset of those.

I could probably still write out my list almost card for card even now, like 5 years later. God, I loved that deck.


Here's a look a Enchantress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQPO6H4Ejk&eurl=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/welcome), Luis Scott-Vargas is 3-0 with it right now!! Really funny to listen to the conv0 about everyone is playing thresh or Landstill and to here Brian David Marshal ask "Whats Sea Drake?" when they were talking about Faerie Stompie.

What the fuck, am I seriously going to have to start running Tranquility or some shit?

[Nihil Credo]

Yet more podcast reports from the high tables:

- Roger Marten runs Ichorid
- Manuel Bucher is playing Armageddon Stax
- Leonid Bogachkin plays midrange R/G
- Mike Hron plays W/G Enchantress (killing with Maro and Auratog)


Is it just me or are these Legacy rounds totally kicking ass? So much for 'everyone will play Thresh'?

[Wallace]

This sucks, the Standings after 14 rounds just went up, the USA only has 2 players in the top 20 and 5 in the top 25!!! Go team USA...:frown:

Zvi keeps pulling the big name opponents , he beat Darwin Castle in rnd. 14, rnd. 15 match:
Table 13 - Mowshowitz, Zvi S [USA]30 vs. Levy, Raphael [FRA]30

[Bane of the Living]

Im watching this video on Enchantress on magicthegathering.com's home page. Buehler didnt even know what Sea Drake or Faerie Stompy is. They act so clueless about our format. Ugh.

[goobafish]

They also said Werebear was a 2/2 in the Podcast.

[Wallace]

Im watching this video on Enchantress on magicthegathering.com's home page. Buehler didnt even know what Sea Drake or Faerie Stompy is. They act so clueless about our format. Ugh.

No shit, check out this review:

Osamu Fujita is playing an extreme take on the Smokestack control deck. In addition to the usual suite of Trinisphere, Smokestack, and Crucible of Worlds, he has the full eight Armageddon (some labeled Ravages of War to prevent disqualification), Pendrell Mists, and just two win conditions: A single Mishra's Factory and Academy Ruins.

[Nihil Credo]

Nice of Chapin to give respect to format players: "I expected many of the pros to not really care about Legacy, just take their decks off the net, as such it made it really easy to make a deck tuned for the decks that I expected, Thresh, Gobs, Breakfast. I think if I had to play in a tournament against estabilished Legacy players I would have a much harder time of things."

[Cait_Sith]

No shit, check out this review:

Osamu Fujita is playing an extreme take on the Smokestack control deck. In addition to the usual suite of Trinisphere, Smokestack, and Crucible of Worlds, he has the full eight Armageddon (some labeled Ravages of War to prevent disqualification), Pendrell Mists, and just two win conditions: A single Mishra's Factory and Academy Ruins.

Ummm, WOW. My own Armageddon deck runs five maindeck, and one SB. Not to mention, he has a single wincon. How does he manage the clock? Magic?

[xsockmonkeyx]

Technically he could deck you with Academy Ruins, but yeah that seems strange.

[Tao]

- Gabriel Nassif vs. Jim Herold is a Landstill mirror, with Nassif running 4C and Herold having Crucible and Waste
...
- Jim Herold and Saul Aguado have met into an Ichorid mirror

Which of these decks is Jim playing?

And stupid Wizards are again unable to make an adequate coverage. Not even at Worlds.

[marit]

Technically he could deck you with Academy Ruins, but yeah that seems strange.

Decking someone with academy ruins is not a clock.

I think running 8 'geddons is a bit overkill. Running Pendrell Mists is a cool idea though.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I said technically, dammit. 1x Mishra's Factory isnt a clock either.

[Wallace]

Here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/fm13) is Dragon Stompie vs. MUC
Kazuya Mitamura vs. Guillaume Wafo-Tapa


Good match, Dragon stompie is so sick!

I got even worse for team USA after rnd 15, they now only have 2 players in the top 25!!!

[Nihil Credo]

Here's a point that puzzled me in the Hubert vs. Campana match (White Stax vs. UGR Thresh).

In Game 1, Hubert Armageddons, leaving Campana with no permanents, while he has a Chalice@1, a Powder Keg@1, and a Smokestack@2 (no lands post Geddon). If I'm counting correctly, Hubert has now a single card in hand, while Campana has two.

At this point, Campana scoops. Would you have done the same? Or would you have challenged Hubert to remain with a single permanent (most likely the Chalice) and try to recover faster than you? Considering how tough the matchup is for Thresh, I think I would have waited at least a few more turns to hope the luck of the draw was on my side.

[VsTheWorld]

Here's another point that puzzled me in the Huber vs. Campana match:

WTF at boarding Chalice out vs. Thresh????

[Nihil Credo]

That was inexperience, or a brain fart, or both. At the least he realized his mistake before G3 (although it seems he left Grid out this time).

[Wallace]

So after the final round of day two here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/stand16) are the standings. Team USA has 4 players in the top 25 w/ Patrick Chapin bing in the top 10. Will be nice to see the legacy breakdown and some more of the feature matchs.

Check out the Legacy Pod cast, they talk about a bunch of decks and its funny as hell. Spoils of the Vault in Belcher? Werebear a 2/2? Belcher w/ no mention of ETW? Calling Solidarity "The High tide deck"? It's just over 30 mins. if you have the time listen to the whole thing, its very funny listening to these guys talking about a format they clearly know nothing about.

[TeenieBopper]

Pat Chapin makes top 8 at worlds. Go figure. Not Finkel, but damn, it sure its old school enough.

[DeathwingZERO]

Spoils of the Vault in Belcher? Belcher w/ no mention of ETW?

If someone can find me this specific decklist, I'd like to see it. That sounds like the old deck I was running around 2004/2005.

[Artowis]

EDIT: Mori going for the 2-peat. Would be really interesting to see.

[Nihil Credo]

3 Japs, 3 Euros, 2 Yanks, and 1 Israeli; half name pros, half obscure. Great top 8.

[Wallace]

Mori going for the 2-peat, back to back wins. Would be really interesting to see.

That would be sick, back to back Worlds wins, HUDGE!!!

[atv]

That would be sick, back to back Worlds wins, HUDGE!!!

Except that Mori didn't win last year.

[Artowis]

Except that Mori didn't win last year.

Yeah my bad, forgot it was 05. Mihara - Mori, sound similar enough. lol. Still would be the first World Champ to win twice if he takes it.

[atv]

Stuart Wright went 5-0 with this deck:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/welder

I'm sure more decklist will be up soonish.

[kabal]

Stuart Wright's Welder Survival (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/welder)

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Polluted Delta
4 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Tree of Tales
2 Forest


4 Birds of Paradise
4 Goblin Welder
3 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Sundering Titan
2 Shield Sphere
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Triskelion
1 Platinum Angel
1 Anger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Intuition
3 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Mox Diamond
2 Chrome Mox


4 Pyroclasm
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Shriekmaw
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Wispmare
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Genesis

[TeenieBopper]

Fuckin' Welder Survival!? Where's Ian? He'd flip if he knew.

Who was saying there'd be no innovation from Worlds legacy?


The deck is one that Stuart has had in his back pocket for a while, having been put together for a legacy tournament that he never quite made it to. As such Wright will have more practice with his deck than most of the field have with theirs—it's definitely going to be the case that his opponents won't have played against it much.

What the fuck ever. I could find a welder survival deck that predates that one by two or three years.

[troopatroop]

Fuckin' Welder Survival!? Where's Ian? He'd flip if he knew.

Who was saying there'd be no innovation from Worlds legacy?



What the fuck ever. I could find a welder survival deck that predates that one by two or three years.

There isn't any inovation in that deck. We already know about that deck, and it's been developed and deemed "not up to par".

[freakish777]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/blog2#9

................ wtf?

[kirdape3]

Except that Stuart Wright went 5-0 with it against the best players in the world. That should be a little telling, no?

[TeenieBopper]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/blog2#9

................ wtf?

Fucking. Awesome. Hron, Walls, and SWK are my new heroes, even if they didn't play that. If there had been a single feature match or blog report that said "Turn one, Vine Dryad, go. Turn two, swing, shoal, shoal, gg." I'd start driving to NYC right now to start sucking a dick in the hopes that I could achieve even half that level of awesomeness.


There isn't any inovation in that deck. We already know about that deck, and it's been developed and deemed "not up to par".

You're right. Innovation is the wrong word. But everyone was all "ho hum, the pros are all gonna be playing goblins and thresh. yawn." That clearly hasn't been the case, and I can't stop giggling like a schoolgirl.

[ClearSkies]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/blog2#9

................ wtf?

Wow... I am just speechless.
To bring it to a major tournament, I would never look at that pitch world deck the same ever again, lol.

[freakish777]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/pblog2

Craig Jones played it as well, perhaps (probably more likely) sub-optimally, and perhaps got a bit unlucky in his match ups. However I think the following is particularly telling:

"Stuart's deck is very good though. Don't let my 2-3 record put you off. Stuart went 5-0 and barely dropped a game."

[Sanguine Voyeur]

The Stax sounds painfully similar to a Stax I've been toying with. [In convenient Workstation format.]

[B]TPG Stax x00.08

// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [PR] Plains
1 [PR] Island
1 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
4 Tundra
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [EX] City of Traitors

// Spells
4 [P3] Ravages of War
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
3 [TE] Propaganda
3 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
4 [US] Smokestack
4 [WL] Pendrell Mists
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
4 [PT] Armageddon

Titled so for the consistent explanation of "I'm [B]tired of playing this game" faced from opponents. I've only really tested against aggro, and it's been effective. The sheer number of sources of mana denial can slow down your opponent enough for Pendrell's to wipe the board. The Chalice can shut down things that kill you immediately [particularly burn spells], and the Prisons and Propagandas lock out or at least stall.

[freakish777]

Here's a look a Enchantress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQPO6H4Ejk&eurl=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/welcome), Luis Scott-Vargas is 3-0 with it right now!!

And if I'm not mistaken ended up 4-1 with it.

[Bovinious]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/blog2#9

................ wtf?

Looks like a worse version of my bastard creation Pitch World, damn copycats...

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

The reports are so much more when you're drunk. Who the hell picks STP over CB? Van Heeswijk that's who. Honestly. Just sayin'. I started cheering at one part, but I don't remember which. Woot. Off.

[electrolyze]

when are this worlds finished and does someone have the t8 decklist on this moment? i cant get much information out of the wizards site about the legacy tourney. i only see information about the draft things and that stuff.

greets

ps, i see there were 2 dutch people in the t12, go the netherlands:laugh:

[Mental]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/fm16

Tomb Stompy, a blue black white disruption deck? Never heard of it, but it looks interesting. So far Mori has played:
Tombstalker
Trinket Mage
Thoughtseize
Tormod's Crypt
Engineered Explosives
Sensai's Divining Top
Swords to Plowshares
Enlightened Tutor??!!
Pithing Needle

Weird stuff, but kinda interesting. And Tombstalker is awesome tech in a goyf filled meta.

[Solpugid]

And engineered plague MAINDECK?? I wonder if Mori was expecting more Goblins.

[Eldariel]

Hardly, Plague is pretty good against just about anything not named Threshold, and even against Thresh, if you can Crypt them, it'll take out Mongeese.

[freakish777]

Hardly, Plague is pretty good against just about anything not named Threshold, and even against Thresh, if you can Crypt them, it'll take out Mongeese.


Exactly.

Oh, you're playing Confidant? I guess I'll name Wizard (and make your Meddling Mages into 1/1's).

Enchantress? Let me cut out half your draw engine.

Affinity? Well atleast you can't combo me.

[Eldariel]

Affinity actually loses Ravagers (the new errata gave them a creature type). Or Disciples. And Cephalid Breakfast loses the Cephalid-part.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Affinity actually loses Ravagers (the new errata gave them a creature type).That's cool, they made Ravager a beast and gave all of the artifact creatures in Mirrodin block a type.

Frogmite is a frog. All is right in the world of Mirrodin.

[MattH]

Affinity actually loses Ravagers (the new errata gave them a creature type). Or Disciples. And Cephalid Breakfast loses the Cephalid-part.

Does Ravager have a creature type now? I thought it didn't.

[Shawn]

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/index.aspx?first=1&last=100&term=ravager&Field_Name=on&Field_Rules=on&Field_Type=on&setfilter=Allsets&colorfilter=All&typefilter=All&output=summary&sort=name

It's a beast.

[Eldariel]

Arcbound Ravager is, appropriately enough, a Beast. Arcbound Worker is a Construct. All artifact creatures seem to have creature types now. In fact, all creatures in Magic seem to have gotten as much. There're a few interesting new ones too, but the Arcbounds are probably the ones with the most functional relevance.

[MattH]

Well blow me down! See this is why I really hate their big creature-type push. Now there's like hundreds of cards for which NO PRINTED VERSION exists that matches Oracle/Gatherer. That sucks for people playing.

[Barook]

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/index.aspx?first=1&last=100&term=ravager&Field_Name=on&Field_Rules=on&Field_Type=on&setfilter=Allsets&colorfilter=All&typefilter=All&output=summary&sort=name

It's a beast.
And that sucks. Seriously, it should be a Construct.

E Plague also got a huge boost from the creature type update. Humans FTL. :rolleyes:

[atv]

Here's the day 2 wrap-up video with some Legacy talk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2gRJnheOlk&eurl=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/fm16

[TeenieBopper]

Here's the day 2 wrap-up video with some Legacy talk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2gRJnheOlk&eurl=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/fm16

I loved watching Bueler crack up as he told the story about an Arc Slogger pick up a Jitte and go into the red zone. Wasn't derogatory at all, just "that was so awesome!"

[Kronicler]

So far I've heard mention of belcher, faerie stompy, dragon stompy, enchantress, welder survival, lots of thresh, and pretty much 0 gobos. Fankly, I'm quite unimpressed with what the pros came up with. If anything it's almost like they just fucking loaded up the source and then made 10 minutes of changes (many of which seem bad). Seriously, I demand they mention Eladriel's name when talking about FS. Now people are gona thing these pros are so good at building legacy decks when.. oh wait... most of them had already been designed here. Sigh.

Kronicler

[Bardo]

I'm getting the feeling that we won't be seeing the Legacy decklists... :rolleyes:

[Bane of the Living]

That was inexperience, or a brain fart, or both. At the least he realized his mistake before G3 (although it seems he left Grid out this time).

Rubens just sounds like someone that shouldnt be playing a deck like Stax.

"He cast Mox Diamond (javascript:autoCardWindow('Mox_Diamond')), waiting for a response from Rubens, but the Brazilian didn't indicate any wish to Daze (javascript:autoCardWindow('Daze')) or Force of Will (javascript:autoCardWindow('Force_of_Will')) the artifact. Huber then played a land, perhaps a surprising move considering his Mox Diamond (javascript:autoCardWindow('Mox_Diamond')) could have been protected from Daze (javascript:autoCardWindow('Daze')) had he dropped his Flagstones of Trokair before playing it. Rubens made a Wasteland (javascript:autoCardWindow('Wasteland')) and passed. When his opponent played no land or spells, he Wasteland (javascript:autoCardWindow('Wasteland'))ed the Flagstones. As Huber moved to search out a Plains Campana stopped him showing Stifle (javascript:autoCardWindow('Stifle')) and countering the triggered ability"

What a noob.

[aTn]

Couldn't attend... pissed. Any news on the Top8 decklists for the Legacy event ?

EDIT:
I'm getting the feeling that we won't be seeing the Legacy decklists...

Why is that ?

[Nihil Credo]

Seriously, I demand they mention Eladriel's name when talking about FS. Now people are gona thing these pros are so good at building legacy decks when.. oh wait... most of them had already been designed here. Sigh.

Kronicler
Another annoyance was what BDM said about Diminishing Returns: "Akira Asahara put this in the sideboard about ten minutes before the round... another Japanese innovation!" when DR is nothing new to Belcher builds at all.

Still, it definitely feels as though they've liked what they've seen of Legacy as a pro format. I have some serious hopes of getting another REL 5 event next year.


Rubens just sounds like someone that shouldnt be playing a deck like Stax.

Rubens was the Thresh player. And his play wasn't terrible; he only chose to Waste+Stifle the Flagstones because Hubert had shown he did not have another land. Had the Swiss Stax player not been in danger of manascrew, Rubens would have surely kept the land and the Stifle effect for later.

[Bardo]

EDIT:

Why is that ?

Seems like they would have posted them by now--since the Legacy portion has come and gone.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.

[Mental]

Seems like they would have posted them by now--since the Legacy portion has come and gone.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.

What's there to see really? All I'm vaguely interested in is the enchantress and Tomb Stompy decks. We have most of the lists up here already.

[Pinder]

Another annoyance was what BDM said about Diminishing Returns: "Akira Asahara put this in the sideboard about ten minutes before the round... another Japanese innovation!" when DR is nothing new to Belcher builds at all.


Yeah. I also heard DragonStompy mentioned, too (although I still really like the name 'Slogdor!' :tongue:). I just hope that these decks, which have been here forever, don't get attributed in whole to the pros. Ignorance and poor coverage of Legacy decks shouldn't be mistaken for pros being innovative geniuses. I guess it's just that Legacy is a Joe's format, and then the pros take all our decks and win flashy tournaments with them.

On that note, I'm not sure if I'm glad or sad that no one was playing Slivers. At least no one is going to steal my deck, I guess :wink:.

[Illissius]

They say to "Tune in Saturday for complete National Team action, an in-depth review of the Legacy format, and much more.", but there's nothing yet that I can see.

[Bardo]

What's there to see really? All I'm vaguely interested in is the enchantress and Tomb Stompy decks. We have most of the lists up here already.

I kinda doubt Pat Chapin came to the Source, and copied our ancient UGbw Threshold list card-for-card and proceeded to kick ass with it.

[freakish777]

In the day 2 wrap up, they said only 2 people went 5-0 in Legacy, Wright and Nakamura (I think?).

[Bane of the Living]

I kinda doubt Pat Chapin came to the Source, and copied our ancient UGbw Threshold list card-for-card and proceeded to kick ass with it.

Why not really?

Its not like the source is that under the radar since we have you guys writing for Star City now.

[C.P.]

Come to think about it, wasn't Chapin supposed to play so called 'Innovator Alluren - the Legacy's most powerful deck'?

or was it too powerful for him?

[insertnamehere]

In my opinion, most WOTC tournaments are very poorly maintained. The average T.O. runs better tournaments than the crew I saw there. I went on Thursday and saw tournies end and 45 minutes later the next round began. I could only imagine how the weekends are. They probably won't have any information until next week, although I did see the type 2 and Worlds info up there.

[Artowis]

Come to think about it, wasn't Chapin supposed to play so called 'Innovator Alluren - the Legacy's most powerful deck'?

or was it too powerful for him?

As Chapin himself pointed out, he knew most of these guys would just be playing whatever they scrounged up the night before. He probably thought he'd get more value out of playing a metagamed top tier deck than a deck that requires a huge amount of concentration and had only an even match vs. thresh (At least what he said it was the last time he wrote about the deck).

[revenge_inc]

I'm getting the feeling that we won't be seeing the Legacy decklists... :rolleyes:

Ya this has to be the most frustrating thing about their coverage so far. When it was extended they always had the undeafeated decklists

[Lothian]

In my opinion, most WOTC tournaments are very poorly maintained. The average T.O. runs better tournaments than the crew I saw there. I went on Thursday and saw tournies end and 45 minutes later the next round began. I could only imagine how the weekends are. They probably won't have any information until next week, although I did see the type 2 and Worlds info up there.

I totally agree with that.

Calling that a "Pro" tour is kind of a joke.

How can they come up with so few information for the smallest tournament of the year (not even 400 players)

As always, it looks like WOTC just go on the cheap.

They could do so much better in their coverage to gain media and players attention. Doesn't look like these guys know much about technology

Look at those oldish ASP pages..
Updates made erratically, no comments on who's just done well or bad, filled up maybe with a couple of interviews with a video center.

Do they realise theirs blogs are not blogs, merely an html page updated twice a day?

Not there yet to turn that game into a real powerhouse...

BTW, does anyone know in what format the top 8 will be decided? Are they going to use their standard/legacy lists, or can they change?
Looked everywhere (3 pages..) and no mention about what's happening next.
I must be blind!

[atv]

In the day 2 wrap up, they said only 2 people went 5-0 in Legacy, Wright and Nakamura (I think?).

I think this is partially because many top players took IDs in the end.

Deck breakdown:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/legbreak

I guess the Finn Antti Malin was the lone Faerie Stompy (called sea stompy here) player.

[Nihil Credo]

Metagame breakdown is up! (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/legbreak)

So... from the coverage, it seems there were absolutely zero Goblins, right?

Wrong.

Threshold: 76
Goblins: 34
Cephalid Breakfast: 26
Landstill: 24
Dredge (javascript:autoCardWindow('Dredge')): 24
PT Junk: 16
Charbelcher: 15
Survival: 14
Stax: 14
Dragon Stompy: 11
Affinity: 11
38-43 Lands: 9
White-Blue-Black: 8
Aggro Loam: 7
Enchantress: 7
Solidarity (javascript:autoCardWindow('Solidarity')): 6
Black-White: 6
3Deuce: 6
Counter Goyf: 5
Black-Blue-Green: 5
Slivers / Meathooks: 3
Black Splash Green: 3
Aluren (javascript:autoCardWindow('Aluren')): 3
Monoblack Aggro: 2
Mono-Blue Control: 2
The Perfect Storm: 2
Iggy Pop: 2
Rifter: 2
White Weenie: 1
Life: 1
Stifle (javascript:autoCardWindow('Stifle'))Naught: 1
Sea Stompy: 1
Stompy: 1
Other: 10

[Pinder]

...
Slivers / Meathooks: 3
...


Yay!

Also, I'd like to quote a little farther down:



That's not to say the pros weren't up for innovating a bit themselves. A contingent of French players showed up with a mono-red deck intent on making big plays via Moxes and two-mana lands like Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors, usually in the form of disruptive spells like Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void, or either Blood Moon effect (Magus of and the original enchantment) before powering into larger threats like Arc-Slogger. They even utilized rituals like Seething Song to make sure their overpowered cards hit the table quickly.


This was right before a decklist titled Olivier Ruel's Dragon Stompy

Wow. Taco and Phantom must be pissed.

edit - Post 2,222!

[Silverdragon]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/legbreak


Players buckled down to find edges just as they do for other formats and their innovations are sure to be felt in the Legacy community at large.

LOL? Aside from the UWB Trinket Mage/Tombstalker list there was not a single deck that hasn't been discussed on this site here already for at least 2 months. I mean Enchantress has existed forever and Replenish was played in the deck right at the moment it became unbanned. Dragon Stompy is more of the same.
Btw all the time I read about Dragon Stompy on other sites I just want to crush my monitor because all the people think DS was developed after Empty the Slogger WHICH IS JUST WRONG! Dragon Stompy existed way before any other red Ancient Tomb/Chalice based decks! Argh! (Wow I feel a bit better now)

edit: lol Pinder beat me to it. Anyway while I'm at it I also have to say that I agree with Lothian. WotC's coverage should not be allowed to be called "live"! It already annoyed me at the GP's when I had to wait for almost a full day (plus timezone differences) to get updates. Now this is the motherf*cking WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS(!) The most important tournament of the whole year and it's in New York for god's sake. Why do I have to wait 8+ hours again just to get an update on the standings?
edit2: Oh more ranting. Does anybody else think that the podcasts from MOX radio are just bad most of the time? I mean they clearly had no f*cking clue whatsoever about Legacy. It sounded like they didn't even prepare at all before they started covering there. And what always pisses me off when I listen is when they feature a match and Hagon does the commentary and then they play those stupid sounds of people cheering in the background and those cheers are so loud you can't concentrate on what Hagon is saying...

[insertnamehere]

I totally agree with that.

Calling that a "Pro" tour is kind of a joke.

How can they come up with so few information for the smallest tournament of the year (not even 400 players)

As always, it looks like WOTC just go on the cheap.

They could do so much better in their coverage to gain media and players attention. Doesn't look like these guys know much about technology

Look at those oldish ASP pages..
Updates made erratically, no comments on who's just done well or bad, filled up maybe with a couple of interviews with a video center.

Do they realise theirs blogs are not blogs, merely an html page updated twice a day?

Not there yet to turn that game into a real powerhouse...

BTW, does anyone know in what format the top 8 will be decided? Are they going to use their standard/legacy lists, or can they change?
Looked everywhere (3 pages..) and no mention about what's happening next.
I must be blind!

Here are a few things I forgot to mention.
Gunslinging> atleast they could have been using descent decks. C'mon an elf precon deck with Tarmogoyf ( I asked MaRo "Whats that gonna do to me?")
Dealers>Empty tables due to the fact Wizards Manopolized on packs and every type of Gaming supply you would of needed with their crappy gaming supplies. I saw one vender with 2 cases and another vendor with 7 binders spread throughout 3 tables.
Demo's> With a backpack on my back and a rookbox in my hand the guy at the demo table said to me "Would you like to learn how to play magic?"

They need to Kevin (off the wall games) to run their events.

[CynicalSquirrel]

It's pretty annoying how they've credited pros with inventing decks like Dragon Stompy, Enchantress, and Welder Survival when they've been around on here for months or in the case of the latter two years. Wizards should give some credit to the people really innovating the format and not the pros who just take decks from them.

[C.P.]

I'm also pissed about the fact that they totally ignored the fact that DS and Enchantress existed long before the worlds.

That aside, what's with this PT junk?
WRG Aggro or something?

And TPS? you mean TES.
Or do they still think TES is Iggy Pop?:wink:

[edgewalker]

I'm also pissed about the fact that they totally ignored the fact that DS and Enchantress existed long before the worlds.

That aside, what's with this PT junk?
WRG Aggro or something?

And TPS? you mean TES.
Or do they still think TES is Iggy Pop?:wink:

PT Junk is Bgw mid range, it was played around the time Alan Comer made Gro and Miracle Gro the big name decks they are today.

Also, the entire coverage of the Legacy event is a perfect example of why we (legacy players) seem like dicks and hate wizards. We are constantly ignored by the magic community as a whole.

[Phantom]

Yay!
Wow. Taco and Phantom must be pissed.



I think I'm going to have to have a word with the French...

[marit]

21.2 Percent Thresh, sorta what I expected. I'm really surprised that there were so many PT jank, the deck doesn't seem that powerful.

[TrialByFire]

Told ya there would be a lot more of the little red men decks there than people thought. 2nd most represented archetype.

also:


Fucking. Awesome. Hron, Walls, and SWK are my new heroes, even if they didn't play that. If there had been a single feature match or blog report that said "Turn one, Vine Dryad, go. Turn two, swing, shoal, shoal, gg." I'd start driving to NYC right now to start sucking a dick in the hopes that I could achieve even half that level of awesomeness.

WIN.

That's it.

You just win.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I love how vague the deck names are. Any chance we'll ever find out just what's being referenced?




Threshold: 76



Of what varieties? Can we be sure they're all Threshold and not just decks that look like Threshold but are fundamentally different?



PT Junk: 16


What the hell does that mean?



White-Blue-Black: 8


Is that UWB Fish?



3Deuce: 6


Hmm?



Counter Goyf: 5


What, Threshold?


Black-Blue-Green: 5

?

TarmoTog? I wish. Then again, someone else would be getting credit for it, so...


Black Splash Green: 3

10-Land Stompy with Thoughtseize?


Other: 10[/I]

The names given before were pretty random. What happened here?

[Nihil Credo]

Ask Bill Stark.

[Artowis]

By the way fellows, I'll be writing an article this week lambasting the WOTC coverage and especially the Legacy coverage. If there's anything in particular you'd like to contribute that wouldn't make yourselves look like total dicks, I might be able to sneak it in towards the end of the article. The same goes for those who actually attended the events with gripes they'd like to share.

So far I've got:
Complete lack of Blog updates after a day and a half
Vastly delayed published standings
Lack of research on Legacy itself
Lack of a useful Legacy breakdown, not to mention late
Lack of undefeated Legacy decks by Saturday night
Wrong attribution of already existing decks
Small amount of feature matches when you get blog posts like, 'wow i ken seez 12 featured matches within 50ft of me, lulz'. It's worlds. Fucking pony up some cash to get some more coverage writers.

Also, I see Tacosnape, Pinder and Phantom's name come up for Dragon Stompy. What about Welder Survival?

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Ask Bill Stark.

Don't worry, that wasn't aimed at you. Just a general comment. I really hope some real order gets applied to that list--or at least that all the decklists will go up, so that we can figure it out for ourselves.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Another thing I noticed was that they almost seemed to be discussing Legacy in a joking non-serious tone when discussing it compared to how they talked about standard and limited. The Standard and limited portions were a lot of strategy and interesting stuff, but all the Legacy stuff basically amounted to "LOL JITTE ON ARC SLOGGER" or some other snarky comment about "weird" cards that see play in the format. If the people at wizards aren't going to take the format seriously, I don't see how they can expect anyone else to.

[Machinus]

"What's Sea Drake?"

I know buehler is a douchebag, but what's the point of creating a format and putting it into worlds if you are going to treat it like this?

[Kronicler]

"Some players ran traditional blue-green builds, eschewing splashes to solidify their manabase and protect it from Wasteland."

Are you kidding me. UG = Traditional? The facts would like to have a word with you WOTC.

Kronicler

[kirdape3]

Randy is explicitly not a douchebag, and was quite a nice guy when I met him at Richmond.

Also, his current specialty is VP of Digital Products - so he's over MODO, Gleemax, and a couple of other projects. It's entirely possible that he doesn't keep up with old formats as much as he once did.

[Eldariel]

Goaswerfraiejen: Most of those are oldschool nicknames from the Old Old Extended (the Extended before Old Extended where Duals were legal)


PT Junk: 16
What the hell does that mean?

PT Junk is basically GWB disruptive aggro-deck playing Duress, Wasteland et al. along with Savannah Lions and so on. I suppose disruptive GWB fell into this category (think Bgw Pikula).


White-Blue-Black: 8
Is that UWB Fish?

It's probably that vague to cover more decks. Some of it is probably Tomb Stompy (the Tombstalker/Trinket Mage/Counterbalance-deck Japs brought) and some of it is prolly traditional Fish.


3Deuce: 6
Hmm?

Disruptive RGW Aggro. Think Red Deck Wins 2k5 in 3 colours, or Zoo with disruption components.


Counter Goyf: 5
What, Threshold?

That ain't old, but I think it's Thresholdish without Threshold-creatures. Goyf+Counterbalance I'd wager, along with an assortment of the Great One, etc. I think it's mostly Ugbw.


Black-Blue-Green: 5
?

TarmoTog? I wish. Then again, someone else would be getting credit for it, so...

TarmoTog is likely, although Goyf-deck without Tog is fully possible. Or then it could be that it's an assortment of archetypes again, with Loamtogs, Tarmotogs and different Rocks all taking part of the numbers


Black Splash Green: 3
10-Land Stompy with Thoughtseize?

Think Bg Pikula.


Other: 10

Was wondering the same, that IS pretty random. Oh well.


They're busy people, so I understand the poor knowledge of the format. I would've wished they would've had someone delve into it and do the coverage though, or hire some Legacy-player to do it so they'd avoid embarrassing plunders. Oh well. But yea, Randy is a cool guy and BDM isn't all that bad either.

[moxpearl]

There seems to be a lot of negativity about Wizards handling of the Legacy coverage. Being one who follows Legacy a bit, I thought the coverage was fine. You have to consider their audience, and I think it's great that this format is getting as much attention as it's getting.

As to when decks were designed and who developed which decks, I agree it would have been nice for the reporters to have known those things. And the Pros probably came to this site to read up on the format and take deck ideas. However, practically speaking for the reporters, it's easier to just label a deck with the player. I don't know realistically how someone who's not a regular on these boards to have known such facts.

Let's just hope this format gets more popular and then I'm sure there will be more opportunities to explain the history of the format and decks to the general public.

[Cait_Sith]

"Some players ran traditional blue-green builds, eschewing splashes to solidify their manabase and protect it from Wasteland."

Are you kidding me. UG = Traditional? The facts would like to have a word with you WOTC.

Kronicler

I am assuming he is talking about Madness, since Thresh JUST started doing competitive UG Builds. That or some crazy Vinelasher Kudzu deck.

[Jak]

There seems to be a lot of negativity about Wizards handling of the Legacy coverage. Being one who follows Legacy a bit, I thought the coverage was fine. You have to consider their audience, and I think it's great that this format is getting as much attention as it's getting.

Still, you don't want the "attention" this format is getting to be bad attention. It is not good for people like Beuhler to laugh at cards being played in some popular decks. That will just turn people away and make them think our format is just a big joke becasue we play Portal 2 crap. If you are going to cover an event, it is not hard to read up a little on some decks and cards being played in those decks.

Anyways, a lot of the pros seemed to be interested in the format. LSV said that it can be explored further, so there is interest. Maybe there will be more GPs and get some more stuff going on for Legacy.

[Anusien]

Let's assume Randy Buehler doesn't read the site, how is he supposed to know what decks you created or did well with previous to now? Legacy players as a whole do very little to put their innovations or anything out there beyond cliquish websites (TMD and The Source fall in here) and tournaments that don't reach a wider scope. While the lack of knowledge about the format by coverage teams is somewhat regrettable, it's quite understandable.

[Pinder]

Also, I see Tacosnape, Pinder and Phantom's name come up for Dragon Stompy. What about Welder Survival?

Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't have anything to do with posting/building/tuning Dragon Stompy. I did start calling it 'Slogdor!' though. Someone should should e-mail Stark a link to the OP of the DS thread, dated 11/12/07. French innovation, my ass.

As far as Welder Survival goes, it's been around in various incarnations throught the past couple of years. I believe that at one point there was a build called '7/10 Split', after the P/T of Sundering Titan.

edit - And for educational purposes, here's the list Ruel ran in comparison to the list Parcher made T8 with roughly a month prior:

Ruel's list:


//19 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

//20 Creatures
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon

//21 Other Spells
3 Seething Song
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
2 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void

//Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trinisphere
1 Pyrokinesis
4 Powder Keg
2 Rorix Bladewing
3 Pyroblast


Parcher's List:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain

4 Arc-Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Gathan Raiders
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Rakdos Pit-Dragon

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Seething Song

2 Demonfire

Sideboard

4 Pyrokenisis
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blood Moon
2 Icefall
1 Trinisphere
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Rakdos Pit-Dragon



There are definitely some differences, like Blood Moon in the main, no Sulfur Elemental, more Pit Dragons, etc., but it hardly looks like anything more than a modified version of previous lists. And they're calling it Dragon Stompy, for Christ's sake. And it might be excusable for Randy to not know, but when they come up with the same deck with the same damn name, you might expect one of the pros to give some credit. I highly doubt this is any sort of coincidence.

[Artowis]

Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't have anything to do with posting/building/tuning Dragon Stompy. I did start calling it 'Slogdor!' though. Someone should should e-mail Stark a link to the OP of the DS thread, dated 11/12/07. French innovation, my ass.

As far as Welder Survival goes, it's been around in various incarnations throught the past couple of years. I believe that at one point there was a build called '7/10 Split', after the P/T of Sundering Titan.

Well I know the Germans were the initial guys to come up with Welder Survival in Vintage. I was just curious who did the most work in Legacy. Moot point I guess though.

[Aggro_zombies]

Anyways, a lot of the pros seemed to be interested in the format. LSV said that it can be explored further, so there is interest. Maybe there will be more GPs and get some more stuff going on for Legacy.
He plays out here, where we only have occasional Legacy tournaments, and something attended by twenty-five to thirty people is a "big" Legacy tournament. Usually, less than twenty people come to any given Legacy event here. That said, Kronicler and I are the ones who take the format the most seriously in this area, so maybe we're rubbing off on him. Either way, I want more Wizards support for Legacy...but please, for the love of God, at least do some research on the format before you talk about it! I completely agree with CynicalSquirrel on this one and posted as much on the Wizards forums in hopes that someone important will read it.

Maybe they did this to make up for giving it to the format in the ass at Columbus? Adding Legacy to Worlds, that is.

EDIT: Pinder, I posted a link to the Dragon Stompy thread on this site when I posted on the Wizards boards. Hopefully, someone who is not blind/French will see that the post is dated for November and that the deck has a history.

[Eldariel]

Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't have anything to do with posting/building/tuning Dragon Stompy. I did start calling it 'Slogdor!' though. Someone should should e-mail Stark a link to the OP of the DS thread, dated 11/12/07. French innovation, my ass.

Done.

[xsockmonkeyx]

"What's Sea Drake?"

I know buehler is a douchebag, but what's the point of creating a format and putting it into worlds if you are going to treat it like this?

Maybe they will reprint Sea Drake now that Buehler knows about it.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Thanks for the clarifications, Eldariel. Those names were shockingly random for someone who seldom looks at Extended (or Magic beyond Legacy and draft, for that matter).

[Eldariel]

Thanks for the clarifications, Eldariel. Those names were shockingly random for someone who seldom looks at Extended (or Magic beyond Legacy and draft, for that matter).

You'd have to have looked at Extended 6-9 years (god, my chronological memory is so hazy) ago to be aware of those anyways. Those decks don't even really exist presently, although Three-Deuce name gets thrown around every now and then. Most such decks end up just being called 'Zoo'.

[Aggro_zombies]

You'd have to have looked at Extended 6-9 years (god, my chronological memory is so hazy) ago to be aware of those anyways. Those decks don't even really exist presently, although Three-Deuce name gets thrown around every now and then. Most such decks end up just being called 'Zoo'.
It was from when Tempest onward was legal, before Ravnica came out. That's the format where the idea for Breakfast came from as well (it originally appeared there).

EDIT: I remember because that was right around the time that I started getting into Legacy. A lot of Legacy ideas are actually pretty similar to things that were run back then: Breakfast, Miracle Gro (became Thresh), Alluren, Enchantress...I'm sure there are others.

[caiomarcos]

"A large Maro" as the kill condition in Enchantress was really over the top, much worse than 2/2 Werebear.

[Kronicler]

This kind of stuff reminds me of some of the fuck ups from the legacy world championships where they said stuff like imperial seal is legal (I could be wrong about this, but it was similar) and other random ass comments that were just flat out wrong.

Kronicler

[Pinder]

This kind of stuff reminds me of some of the fuck ups from the legacy world championships where they said stuff like imperial seal is legal.

I think this was before GP: Flashlumbus, but you have the idea. It seems that everyone who covers any sort of Legacy knows absolutely nothing about the format. They might have at least done their homework.

[Giles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_NeLA3hR_g&NR=1

[Sims]

By the way fellows, I'll be writing an article this week lambasting the WOTC coverage and especially the Legacy coverage. If there's anything in particular you'd like to contribute that wouldn't make yourselves look like total dicks, I might be able to sneak it in towards the end of the article. The same goes for those who actually attended the events with gripes they'd like to share.

So far I've got:
Complete lack of Blog updates after a day and a half
Vastly delayed published standings
Lack of research on Legacy itself
Lack of a useful Legacy breakdown, not to mention late
Lack of undefeated Legacy decks by Saturday night
Wrong attribution of already existing decks
Small amount of feature matches when you get blog posts like, 'wow i ken seez 12 featured matches within 50ft of me, lulz'. It's worlds. Fucking pony up some cash to get some more coverage writers.

Also, I see Tacosnape, Pinder and Phantom's name come up for Dragon Stompy. What about Welder Survival?



PM sent Josh.

[Kronicler]

wow, that video was heelarious. Now hopefully people will realize he just fuckin netdecked.

Kronicler

[Machinus]

wow, that video was heelarious. Now hopefully people will realize he just fuckin netdecked.

Kronicler

I actually thought the interview was fine. I would take his criticisms more seriously than other pros who have the same (marginal) incentive to care about the format. The Ruels are some of the only high level pros that play Eternal formats for fun, and we should want more pros talking about what's wrong with the implementation of Legacy into pro magic.

[freakish777]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_NeLA3hR_g&NR=1


This interview is taken by MercenaryBDU?? Is this the same MercenaryBDU that posts over at the Wizards boards?

[Tacosnape]

Ruel's list:


Parcher's List:



There are definitely some differences, like Blood Moon in the main, no Sulfur Elemental, more Pit Dragons, etc., but it hardly looks like anything more than a modified version of previous lists. And they're calling it Dragon Stompy, for Christ's sake. And it might be excusable for Randy to not know, but when they come up with the same deck with the same damn name, you might expect one of the pros to give some credit. I highly doubt this is any sort of coincidence.

Ruel's list is even closer to mine, actually.

Let's be real about it this. We all know it's a modified version of Dragon Stompy. We all know the correct history order was Dragon Stompy, then Empty the Slogger, then essentially Dragon Stompy II with the 8-Moon disruption package. Phantom and I deserve the credit for developing the deck initially and innovating it as time progressed, but a lot of other people deserve credit for the ETS archetype (Which failed, IMHO, but had neat tech), and Parcher deserves credit for being the first one to actually make a hell of a placing with the deck. And you guys have all helped along the way.

It's not a travesty that the pros are using it. It's completely awesome. It's like the pinnacle of my isolated magic career to find out that multiple high-level pros played Dragon Stompy. It sucks that they get credit for creating it, but that isn't their fault, per se. It's not even technically Buehler's fault as much as it is whoever decided not to have a special consultant for Legacy. Legacy needs someone discussing it who has a clue, and nobody currently employed by Wizards of the Coast in any way, shape, or fashion falls into this category.

Anyway, congratulations to all the completely unsung heroes who either built or contributed to all the once-rogue decks that did well or saw a lot of play at Worlds. It was cool seeing Dragon Stompy, Enchantress, and Welder Survival all wrecking some face.

...Oh, and, Rorix Bladewing? Words fail me.

[Aggro_zombies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_NeLA3hR_g&NR=1
The guy in the background of that video near the end there made me laugh.

Also, grats to Taco, Phantom, Parcher, et al for the successful development of DS, as it's now been played in the Worlds arena. I should get working on my deck ideas, maybe next year they'll play something of mine... :P

[Di]

"Some players ran traditional blue-green builds, eschewing splashes to solidify their manabase and protect it from Wasteland."

Are you kidding me. UG = Traditional? The facts would like to have a word with you WOTC.

Kronicler

You are aware that the deck was created as UG, right? Go ahead and ask Alan Comer, the deck's creator.

[Arctic_Slicer]

A lot of you guys are being way too harsh with your criticisms. So they don't know what Wearbear or Sea Drake is off of the top of their heads so they describe it wrong during an interview. They also managed to describe Faerie Tauntings, a Lorwyn uncommon, wrong when they were talking about the Two-headed Giant drafts.

My Gatherer search turned up 9342 different cards. That's a lot of cards to memorize and expecting someone to have each and everyone of those memorized is probably asking a bit too much, especially when you consider the fact that new cards are added to that ever growing number several times a year. I don't know them all and don't expect anyone else to either. That's the whole purpose of something like Gatherer to exist, because nobody knows them all. I use it frequently and I am sure many of you do the same.

You guy's are also blowing the the Dragon Stompy thing way out of proportion. No where did it say that Oliver Ruel Created the deck. When they list it as "Oliver Ruel's Dragon Stompy" they are talking about the deck he played as in the cards he registered on his tournament sheet. If have ever read Mike Flores' "Swimming With Sharks" column you would know that's how they list decks in every format take this article (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf169) for example. The first deck in that article was titled "Kenny Mayer's Blue-Black-White Teachings". Guillame Wafo-Tapa won Pro Tour Yokohama earlier in the year with a Blue-Black-White Teachings deck so it's pretty obvious that Kenny Mayer didn't create the archetype put running an updated version for Lorwyn Standard. At this particular tournament Kenny Mayer was playing a Blue-Black-White teachings deck so they list it as "Kenny Mayer's Blue-Black-White Teachings". Do you understand? If anything I think that Phantom and Tacosnapse should be proud that they more or less invented a deck that is now being played by high level pros such as Guillame Wafo-Tapa and Oliver Ruel and a Pro-Tour. I know I would be.
I read it over and over on these forums; "Wizards doesn't care about Legacy". Yet they run Legacy Grand Prixs and now a multi-format pro-tour that also uses the format. The fact that it was featured on the World Championships should be something to celebrate not something to bitch about. Or maybe you would like to return to the days where there were no sanctioned events and the banned list was completely based upon an entirely different format? While there may be a few of you here that do, I sure don't and I imagine most on here don't. So why don't we all quit trying nitpick all of the negatives and start focusing more on the positives?

Legacy is finally getting some much deserved attention and attention is good. The interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KQPO6H4Ejk&eurl=http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/video) with Luis Scott-Vargas was very good. When they asked what he thought of Legacy he replied:


I think it's a very diverse format and it would be nice to see it explored a little more. Putting in a day at the World Championships is a good step but a lot of people aren't going to have the resources or time to really testing it well. I think a lot of people opted to play Threshold or Landstill and they're good decks but I'm sure that there's better to be found, it's very wide open.

That's exactly the kind of attention we want for this format and if there are more pros that echo his sentiment I imagine that it wont be long before we see a Legacy Pro-Tour.

[atv]

Another thing I noticed was that they almost seemed to be discussing Legacy in a joking non-serious tone when discussing it compared to how they talked about standard and limited. The Standard and limited portions were a lot of strategy and interesting stuff, but all the Legacy stuff basically amounted to "LOL JITTE ON ARC SLOGGER" or some other snarky comment about "weird" cards that see play in the format. If the people at wizards aren't going to take the format seriously, I don't see how they can expect anyone else to.

Geez, some people need to develop a thicker skin.

And it was more like "wow, that's so awesome" laughter than deriding the format. Overreacting certainly won't help the case of Legacy format.

[Clark Kant]

Lets not be overly negative. We should praise Wizards for having Legacy in Worlds far more than we do nitpicking them.

I think it's just we all had such high hopes for how legacy would be covered at Worlds and were disappointed is all. A few days and it'll blow over.

Lets not blame the poor coverage on the one guy assigned to cover the event...

He's not the reason for the poor coverage. He's doing a great job considering how much he has to cover. And it's not his fault he didn't have a chance to read up about the format because clearly, he has a lot of cover.

What I'm blaming is that the fact that it seems like he is the only person who was sent by Wizards to cover the event.

Once again, it's not some GP, it's worlds. There should be a few experts for each of the formats assigned to cover them (or atleast writers whos sole job is to research and cover that particular format).

P.S. It's been two days till the legacy event ended and there still hasn't been a listing of what did well.

In the description of World's, Wizards promised live coverage and said to check back frequently on

"What Standard and Legacy decks are at the top of the standings?"

Well now, where the heck is the info on what legacy decks are at the top of the standings?

It's been a full day since the five rounds of legacy ended. And wizards has yet to post a single decklist of what performed the best out of those five rounds.

That's not live coverage.

This isn't some friday night draft. It's freaking worlds. It's been 48 hours and Wizards still can't post the info?

Worse yet, the analysis was a way off. They credited the French for innovating Legacy with Dragon when that deck, and pretty much every "innovative deck" by pros was infact developed on mtgthesource.com and has been around, tested and tuned by months by people who've never ever been to France.

What Wizards should do is credit mtgthesource. This site responsible for most of the innovation legacy sees, and yet Wizards almost never mentions it when they mention legacy.

Honestly though, Dragon Stompy isn't even that great a deck. Fairie Stompy is still better imo. But Dragon Stompy is as fun to play as Fairie Stompy and doesn't require the impossible to find Sea Drakes, which is why I'm guessing so my people brought it.

Wizards, we would really really appreciate it if the format got just a smidgeon of coverage for such a high profile event as worlds atleast.

[insertnamehere]

I have too many responses to everything said so far. IMO Wizards sees Legacy like it sees Vintage (an old format) Type 2 and Extended are there money makers because the kids that only play Type 2 and Extended sell large collections of there cards every year beause they can no longer be played. Legacy and Vintage players do not have to get rid of cards that rotate out.

Also, I saw a very small amount of Vintage/Legacy for sale at Worlds, which also proves that outside of the Source and ManaDrain nobody cares for these two formats.

Legacy and Vintage will never get the Props they deserve until they reprint the following cards:
Power Nine
Dual Lands
Force of Will
Sea Drakes

P.S. Clark Kant, I love your opinion

[Illissius]

Three Deuce is actually a reference to Dwarven Miner + Rancor, something the deck often plays, and who is 3/2.

[insertnamehere]

In regards to what I just wrote, The only players Wizards will talk about or post decks on are Pro's. You never see any of our decks up thee unless we beat the Pro's

[Cabal-kun]

Out of curiosity, has anyone from The Source, or any other Legacy forum for that matter, ever gotten a feature match, interview, or anything like that? It would be a great opportunity to set WotC, and people coming in from other formats, straight.

[goobafish]

This kind of stuff reminds me of some of the fuck ups from the legacy world championships where they said stuff like imperial seal is legal (I could be wrong about this, but it was similar) and other random ass comments that were just flat out wrong.

Kronicler

One guy who was sitting beside me made it to round 2-3 with 4 Frantic Search in his deck.

[on1y0ne]

Wizards recently had a "Legacy-legal" deck list posted on their site that had Sol Ring...

[aTn]

One guy who was sitting beside me made it to round 2-3 with 4 Frantic Search in his deck.

Haha! This tells a lot.

Except for the Enchantress and Dragon Stompy lists, I can't seem to get my hands on the top8 lists. Does anyone have a reference ?

[Goaswerfraiejen]

wow, that video was heelarious. Now hopefully people will realize he just fuckin netdecked.

Kronicler

I thought it was fine. Except for his hat.

Plus, shouldn't it be Olivier Ruel, not Oliver? Silly YouTube.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Geez, some people need to develop a thicker skin.

And it was more like "wow, that's so awesome" laughter than deriding the format. Overreacting certainly won't help the case of Legacy format.
Yeah, I'm kind of coming off as a whiny little bitch, which wasn't really my intention. All I was trying to say was that I'd appreciate a little more strategy discussion about Legacy and a bit less of them making it look like a novelty format that lets you play every card, because that isn't going to get people seriously involved in the format.

[Phantom]

I'd really like to be pissed that they credited our deck to some Frenchmen, but frankly I'm just excited people are playing it and doing well with it.

[Eldariel]

Phantom (and well, everyone else), Bill Stark just replied to me. Here's what he had to say:

"Thanks for the email Jarno. It can be hard as coverage team members to follow all of the trends in Legacy because results are kind of spread across the Internet. While we may not be able to update the site with your details, I will try to make a note of them in my article on TCGplayer this week.

-Bill
(and make sure to check the coverage today for the top 50ish Legacy decklists from Worlds)"


Normally I wouldn't post E-Mails publically, but I think this is something he'd want us all to know. So, as expected, it's just a matter of the coverage team being unable to follow the Legacy-trends. Further, he's going to see if he can still fix the misconception, AND he's going to make an archetype breakdown for the Top 50 Legacy-decklists from Worlds today. So, "Yay Bill!"


I don't think there was really much negative attention, or belittling regarding Legacy; Randy was just going "Man, that's awesome!" with his laugh and overall, it seemed like while the format might've been misunderstood every now and then, and been unfamiliar to the coverage, every damn one enjoyed it and the press it got this time around seems to be purely positive with no Flash spoiling anything.

[Parcher]

I think Taco has made the most sense so far regarding the Pros using some decks that were developed here. But lets just list the facts.

Big Accellerated Red with Artifact diruption existed long before Dragon Stompy, but no format ever had this particular combination of cards to work with before.

The Dragon Stompy thread was started well over a year ago by Taco and Phantom. But it died many months ago with no one really having shown with the deck.

Empty the Slogger did well in Germany recently, but was vastly different in card choice and purpose of deck than anything listed in the old Dragon Stompy thread.

My list, and the Hatfields can back me up on this, was based off EtS, as it was suggested to me by them after my dissatisfaction with Aluren. I had never heard of Dragon Stompy until Taco came into the EtS thread to post his list. To be honest, at that time I thought it was awful. They insisited on no SSG, 8 sweepers, etc. So I basically ignored it, and Daily and I worked off of his experience since he was the only one to that point who had taken it to a tournament.

So in reality, we have no idea where the Pros got the idea from. It is even possible that it was not from The Source. A check last night showed my list from TML III on at least NINE different sites, including ones in France, Spain, Germany and the Netherlands.

It is also thoretically possible that they came up with the idea themselves. They are Pros for a reason. It is also possible that budgetary concerns affected deck choice. Only the Moxes and Equipment cost more than a couple of bucks in the deck(except mine). While I agree that the coverage should not credit the French with an "innovation", it is unreasonable to assume within a day that they can do the research to find where such an obscure deck might come from.

My opinion of the situation is basically the same as Tacosnape and Phantom. While it would be nice, it is unlikely to recieve credit by Wizards for anything done by regular Legacy players. It was said before, but I think Chapin gave the biggest compliment. He does frequent these sites, and stated that after seeing our decks in action that he would be seriously worried about taking Legacy players on thier own turf.

My other opinion also mirrors Taco and Phantom in that regardless of the circumstance, it is ultra cool to see that a deck I promoted be considered good and/or fun enough that an entire team took it to the biggest stage in the Magic world. I'm just tickled about that.

[troopatroop]

Hey albany players, remember Chambers?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/chambersdraft

[Anusien]

After this thread runs its course, can it be locked and moved to a storage tank or deleted? While some of the things in here are true, I would certainly hate for Wizards of the Coast to read it. Obviously, some things went wrong with the coverage, but that pretty much happens every year. I would hope that after putting Legacy in mother-fucking WORLDS that we as a community could be more like "Awesome."

[Zach Tartell]

After this thread runs its course, can it be locked and moved to a storage tank or deleted? While some of the things in here are true, I would certainly hate for Wizards of the Coast to read it. Obviously, some things went wrong with the coverage, but that pretty much happens every year. I would hope that after putting Legacy in mother-fucking WORLDS that we as a community could be more like "Awesome."

Hell no! A pro played my deck. We need this record for all time!

[Cabal-kun]

I would certainly hate for Wizards of the Coast to read it.

Isn't that being overly optimistic? To my knowledge, the only time they actually paid attention to a forum was when Aaron Forsythe himself posted in a WotC Legacy thread about the coverage at Columbus, or some other major Legacy side event. I seriously doubt they would go so far as to venture to another forum.

He did have this neat racing avatar for his account though. I'll hand that to him.

[Mental]

I think Taco has made the most sense so far regarding the Pros using some decks that were developed here. But lets just list the facts.

Big Accellerated Red with Artifact diruption existed long before Dragon Stompy, but no format ever had this particular combination of cards to work with before.

The Dragon Stompy thread was started well over a year ago by Taco and Phantom. But it died many months ago with no one really having shown with the deck.

Empty the Slogger did well in Germany recently, but was vastly different in card choice and purpose of deck than anything listed in the old Dragon Stompy thread.

My list, and the Hatfields can back me up on this, was based off EtS, as it was suggested to me by them after my dissatisfaction with Aluren. I had never heard of Dragon Stompy until Taco came into the EtS thread to post his list. To be honest, at that time I thought it was awful. They insisited on no SSG, 8 sweepers, etc. So I basically ignored it, and Daily and I worked off of his experience since he was the only one to that point who had taken it to a tournament.

So in reality, we have no idea where the Pros got the idea from. It is even possible that it was not from The Source. A check last night showed my list from TML III on at least NINE different sites, including ones in France, Spain, Germany and the Netherlands.

It is also thoretically possible that they came up with the idea themselves. They are Pros for a reason. It is also possible that budgetary concerns affected deck choice. Only the Moxes and Equipment cost more than a couple of bucks in the deck(except mine). While I agree that the coverage should not credit the French with an "innovation", it is unreasonable to assume within a day that they can do the research to find where such an obscure deck might come from.

My opinion of the situation is basically the same as Tacosnape and Phantom. While it would be nice, it is unlikely to recieve credit by Wizards for anything done by regular Legacy players. It was said before, but I think Chapin gave the biggest compliment. He does frequent these sites, and stated that after seeing our decks in action that he would be seriously worried about taking Legacy players on thier own turf.

My other opinion also mirrors Taco and Phantom in that regardless of the circumstance, it is ultra cool to see that a deck I promoted be considered good and/or fun enough that an entire team took it to the biggest stage in the Magic world. I'm just tickled about that.
If they didn't get it from here would they have called it Dragon Stompy? Is that what it's called elsewhere also?

[etrigan]

Normally I wouldn't post E-Mails publically, but I think this is something he'd want us all to know. So, as expected, it's just a matter of the coverage team being unable to follow the Legacy-trends. Further, he's going to see if he can still fix the misconception, AND he's going to make an archetype breakdown for the Top 50 Legacy-decklists from Worlds today. So, "Yay Bill!"

Decklists?

[Mental]

Decklists?

Awesome.

[Soto]

Nassif Is Crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!1

[goobafish]

That was one of the most entertaining games of magic I have ever seen.

[TeenieBopper]

About things that, you know, actually matter, is anyone watching the live webcast? Nassif is such a miser. He mulled to four, on the freakin' play. Chapin burns him to 9 then casts Ignite Memories (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=42519) for five. Nassif has grapeshot, rite of flame, and ignite memories in his hand. He only takes 8 damage, going to one, and then wins the next turn. Crazy. I'm rooting for Chapin, but Nassif is my freaking hero.

And who says Magic isn't a spectator sport.

[Solpugid]

That. Was. Ridiculous.

Poor Chapin.

Edit: @TeenieBopper

Wasn't the last card ignite memories, not hellkite?

[Nihil Credo]

And now triple Lotus Bloom. Best mirror match ever.

[TeenieBopper]

you're right. fixed.

[scrumdogg]

Let's assume Randy Buehler doesn't read the site, how is he supposed to know what decks you created or did well with previous to now? Legacy players as a whole do very little to put their innovations or anything out there beyond cliquish websites (TMD and The Source fall in here) and tournaments that don't reach a wider scope. While the lack of knowledge about the format by coverage teams is somewhat regrettable, it's quite understandable.

Perhaps if all the Legacy writers at certain premium Magic sites were...never mind, not going there... Let's assume Randy Buehler can read...then doing a certain basic amount of research on a format being played at Worlds seems appropriate. Not just for Mr. Buehler but any person tasked with match coverage. They could have gotten their choice of Legacy persons for match coverage for the cost of a hotel room floor, no doubt. And the cliquish nature of the websites has nothing to do with being able to read & research, in fact, having most of the relevant Legacy work contained to 2 sites makes it immensely easier.... Again, as to the tournaments not reaching a wider scope, without open access to the major Magic publishing sites, what else would you like us to do? We advertise where we can, we promote as much as possible, and we rely on those with access to push the format (including events & results).

[goobafish]

Hereee we go again!!!!

[TeenieBopper]

What do you do, if you're Pat CHapin? go for the freakin' win. duh.

I love how Nassif drops an f-bomb.

Wewt!

[Nihil Credo]

Chapin's asking Ignite Memories to be fair this time. Let's see...

Edit: Shock! Dragonstorm! Hellkite! Chapin's in finals!

And Nassif arguably throws out two semi-finals in a row (he did not keep a pointless Rift Bolt in hand...)

[Soto]

Gayy Nasssiff Losttttttt

[Solpugid]

That's depressing, I wanted Gabe to win. But eh, Chapin deserved it.

[revenge_inc]

The lucksacking shenanigans have been rectified.

[Nihil Credo]

With Nassif gone, I'm rooting for Uri Peleg now. Not that I particularly dislike Chapin, but how cool would it be to get an Israeli World Champion?

Plus the guy's got Thoughtseizes and SB Riftsweepers and Stupor. He can beat Dragonstorm.

[Soto]

Well now we know Pat is going to win Worlds. Theres no way he's losing to BG.

[TeenieBopper]

With Nassif gone, I'm rooting for Uri Peleg now. Not that I particularly dislike Chapin, but how cool would it be to get an Israeli World Champion?

I'm rooting for the old school, though it would be cool to see an Israeli world champion. One doesn't exactly think of Israel when they think of Magic powerhouses.

'course, Switzerland and Austria don't exactly come to mind either, unless you just lump all of Europe together.

[revenge_inc]

With Nassif gone, I'm rooting for Uri Peleg now. Not that I particularly dislike Chapin, but how cool would it be to get an Israeli World Champion?

Plus the guy's got Thoughtseizes and SB Riftsweepers and Stupor. He can beat Dragonstorm.

So why not root for the underdog?

[revenge_inc]

...and anyone else still pissed that they had time to post even more Standard decklist but still no Legacy 5-0 decks.

[Nihil Credo]

Because I like Peleg's deck better than Dragonstorm. And Peleg has such a sad puppy look, I fear he might kill himself if he loses.

Also, regarding the other semi-final, why is Otsuka dressed like a clown? Did he take a page from Mori's tank top tech?

Edit: Cloudthresher for the win! Peleg meets Chapin in the finals!

[TeenieBopper]

...and anyone else still pissed that they had time to post even more Standard decklist but still no Legacy 5-0 decks.

Because like .1% of the entire competative magic community give even two shits about Legacy.

The format's not popular, relatively speaking. Get the fuck over it.

[Solpugid]

"the light that's pointing at us just went crashing to the ground"
"see if it's not on fire"

lol

[revenge_inc]

lol at the fallen light comment by Randy

[revenge_inc]

Boo! He conceded too early.

Oh well, Pat vs Uri now.

[TeenieBopper]

I've got papers and shit to work on, and what am I doing? Watching magic. God, I'm such a dork.

[Shawn]

Boo! He conceded too early.

Why? Thresher shoots everyone for two, then he untaps and swings.

[freakish777]

Oh man, that Dragonstorm mirror was exciting. I'm kind of bummed that Nassif lost, but I don't think he really made mistakes. He had the 4th Dragon in his hand, so Rift Bolt + EOT Shock makes the Dragonstorm lethal.

I'll be cheering for Chapin though.

[revenge_inc]

I've got papers and shit to work on, and what am I doing? Watching magic. God, I'm such a dork.

I've got a Calculus exam I should be studying for. This is the life we chose.
No regrets for on my part ....(so far).

[revenge_inc]

Why? Thresher shoots everyone for two, then he untaps and swings.

At one point BDM said he was at 9, then right after he said his life total hadn't been updated and was lower. So I could be wrong here. He could have been at 7 life or below. Not sure. (Damn poor/confusing coverage)

[Artowis]

At one point BDM said he was at 9, then right after he said his life total hadn't been updated and was lower. So I could be wrong here. He could have been at 7 life or below. Not sure. (Damn poor/confusing coverage)

Cloudthresher deals 2 to players as well, bringing Otsuka to 7. The life totals weren't updated to reflect that since the game ended so quickly with the concession.

[goobafish]

I've got a Calculus exam I should be studying for. This is the life we chose.
No regrets for on my part ....(so far).

I've got stats at 9am tmr :(.

[revenge_inc]

Cloudthresher deals 2 to players as well, bringing Otsuka to 7. The life totals weren't updated to reflect that since the game ended so quickly with the concession.

Ok, got it. Never mind my first "Boo" comment then. Reading the card FTW. (or in this case, the loss).

[Nihil Credo]

While we're waiting for the finals, the Individual standings by format (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/standingsbyformat&tablesort=6) have been posted. The undefeated players were:

Shuu Komuro
Stuart Wright
Andres Camargo
Marijn Lybaert
Daniel OMS
Grgur Petric Maretic
Shouta Yasooka
Jia Wu

[freakish777]

While we're waiting for the finals, the Individual standings by format (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/standingsbyformat&tablesort=6) have been posted. The undefeated players were:

Shuu Komuro
Stuart Wright
Andres Camargo
Marijn Lybaert
Daniel OMS
Grgur Petric Maretic
Shouta Yasooka
Jia Wu

Anyone have their e-mail addresses?

[revenge_inc]

While we're waiting for the finals, the Individual standings by format (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgevent/worlds07/standingsbyformat&tablesort=6) have been posted.

Now we know the decklists we want. I guess we are one step closer


Anyone have their e-mail addresses?


youwontfindtheiremails@mtgpros.com

LOL Randy. "Do I need to not talk".


EDIT:

LOL at Randy again when he says:
"I would have made 3/3 tokens with Garruck (instead of going for the big ability)"
"What is Garruck's third ability?"
"Rich, how much does the third ability cost?"


LOL at the technical difficulties and the players talking about how they could hear Randy.

[Nihil Credo]

So much for people complaining that he did not know much about Legacy. Guess what, he doesn't have the time to follow the new sets either ;)

Meanwhile, Pat won an easy, discardless G1. Now we'll see postboard...

[TeenieBopper]

"Wow, the commentators are really loud. In case you guys are wondering, I killed Garruk so he didn't untap and profane command for seven."

[Pinder]

<long well constructed argument>... So why don't we all quit trying nitpick all of the negatives and start focusing more on the positives?


Meh, you're right. Now that I know that wasn't an attribution to Olivier in the title, I'm a little bit more understanding. But they were still hailing it as a French innovation, which rubs me the wrong way. Of course, that's likely because (like most people who cover Legacy tournaments) they had probably never heard of the deck before. I know it's awesome for Taco and Phantom for so many high level Pros to be playing their deck (Hell, I was excited that just 3 people were playing with my Slivery friends), but I want nothing more than for the two of them (and anyone else involved) to get credit for it. Does it really matter if pros are playing your deck if no one knows it's your deck? I guess you'd know. I just want their names up in lights, you know?

I think that what they really need to do is just get a guy to cover Legacy who knows about Legacy. And maybe lives relatively close Wizards HQ. And already writes good articles about Legacy (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/15100.html).

You know, maybe.



I imagine that it wont be long before we see a Legacy Pro-Tour.

That's a discussion for an entirely different day, methinks.

[Jak]

I couldn't stop laughing when the guy kept asking how much Garruk's 3rd ability costs. 'Rich, Rich!' Lol.

[Nihil Credo]

"Wow, the commentators are really loud. In case you guys are wondering, I killed Garruk so he didn't untap and profane command for seven."
Did I miss something? I thought Chapin shot Viper + 2x Elves, and Garruk lived to see his master concede.

[TeenieBopper]

Did I miss something? I thought Chapin shot Viper + 2x Elves, and Garruk lived to see his master concede.

No, Chapin incinerated Garruk.

edit: ALWAYS shock the turn one Birds.

[revenge_inc]

ALWAYS shock the turn one Birds.

...and Randy finally says something with certainty (and actually knows the cards he is talking about).

[revenge_inc]

LOL When Randy says "Rich, Doran?!, Warhammer?!"

[Pinder]

...and Randy finally says something with certainty (and actually knows the cards he is talking about).

Of course, he was talking about Standard.

Bah, I can't watch it because my internet is being dumb. What's happening?

edit - nvm, internet done being dumb.

"Why is it the YMG shuffle?"
"Because it takes 15 minutes."

[revenge_inc]

Of course, he was talking about Standard.

Bah, I can't watch it because my internet is being dumb. What's happening?

Pat is up game 1.

Game 2:

Uri wins

Shuffling up for game 3 now

I love how some random wizards guy/judge provide Pat with cards to replace is two die (for Empty the Warrren tokens) Yet they had to use Myr tokens instead of Goblins.

[etrigan]

Did BDM just call Spikerock Knoll 'Gassy Knoll'?

[TeenieBopper]

This is making me really want to play standard again. Or magic in general. Fuck school.


Did BDM just call Spikerock Knoll 'Gassy Knoll'?

yeah. He's been doing that since top 4.

[Nihil Credo]

Shriekmaw fears in for the win. Also, I share BDM's WTF at Chapin not bringing Wheel of Fate in.

[Jak]

Shriekmaw owns with fear. Beats 7 tokens.

Edit- same here Teeniebopper. These decks just look fun.

[freakish777]

Did BDM just call Spikerock Knoll 'Gassy Knoll'?

Yes.

[Pinder]

This is making me really want to play standard again. Or magic in general. Fuck school.


I'm skipping Church. Gassy Knoll, lol

[revenge_inc]

WTF and Randy says Gassy Knoll as well. Where does this "Gassy" come from?

[freakish777]

WTF and Randy says Gassy Knoll as well. Where does this "Gassy" come from?

When you rip a good card off the top, it's called drawing into gas...

[TeenieBopper]

WTF and Randy says Gassy Knoll as well. Where does this "Gassy" come from?

I'm assuming it's something along the same lines as "My hand is so gassy."

[Pinder]

'Der Gas' means 'The Goods' in German, so a good card is considered gassy.

At least I think that's German.

[TeenieBopper]

Chapin is so nervous. I'm half expecting cards to just fall out of his hands.

[goobafish]

He is always like that, when I played him in the swiss of Gencon he was shaking like crazy.

[TeenieBopper]

Fuck. Did anyone else's sound just go out?

[goobafish]

Yeah

[Pinder]

Did the sound just cut out for anyone else?

Stupid internet.

edit - guess it wasn't just me.

[Nihil Credo]

*Chapin* looks nervous? Peleg looks like he's piloting Life vs. Mind's Desire.

Also, did anyone's audio go out?

[revenge_inc]

Anybody else just loose audio?

[revenge_inc]

lol @ all of us

EDIT:We are back with audio

[etrigan]

Who here can lip read?

[Pinder]

Audio's back!