Æther Vial

[Yawgmoth]

I'm 90% sure the answer to this question is no but I want to know for sure.

Can you activate Æther Vial without a creature in your hand?

[Pinder]

Umm...I think you can.

The ability says you may put a creature card from your hand in play, so once you activate it, you can always neglect to put one into play when the ability resolves, no?

[Maveric78f]

You can even do it with an empty hand. Activating your vial at each turn, at critical moments is smart play. It makes your opponent panic and sometimes he will try to stifle it.

[Versus]

Since Yawgmoth's question jas been answered I hope he doesn't mind if I ask a Vial question here.

I've never played with the card before so forgive my ignorance, but you can put a creature into play durring your opponents turn reguardless if it has Flash or not?

[Nightmare]

Regardless of the creature's abilities (ie, flash or no flash), Aether Vial can be activated at instant speed, which includes your opponent's turn. If the activation is allowed to resolve (no stifle, etc.), then yes, you can put a creature without Flash into play on your opponent's turn. Remember, this is not playing the creature, but putting it into play through Vial's activation, which is not the same thing.

With a Vial set at 2, you can put a Dark Confidant into play during your opponent's turn, any time you have priority.

[Versus]

Excellent. Thank you.

[cdr]

I'm 90% sure the answer to this question is no but I want to know for sure.

Can you activate Æther Vial without a creature in your hand?

The reason you can isn't because Æther Vial says "may", but because putting a creature into play is an effect. Effects don't exist until the spell or ability resolves, and if an effect tries to do something impossible, it only does as much as possible.

Costs (the part before the colon) are different - you must be able to pay costs. You can't tap a tapped Æther Vial to use its ability.

The reason it says "may" is to make it clear that you can use the ability and not put a creature into play even if you have one. A long time ago when rules were primordial, a judge would have had to check your hand to make sure you didn't have a creature.


Æther Vial 1
Artifact
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a charge counter on AEther Vial.
{T}: You may put a creature card with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on AEther Vial from your hand into play.

[Versus]

That's a pretty interesting psych out tactic. Besides having an opponent waste a Stifle is there any other benefit to doing this?

One other question I wanted to ask about Vial. Would alternate costs apply to the creature being put into play via Vial? In otherwords would I have to show my opponent an Elf or pay the :3: in order to play Wren's Run Vanquisher off a Vial set at 2?

[cdr]

Again, Æther Vial puts a creature into play which a completely different concept than playing a creature, as minor as that difference sounds.

Costs only apply to playing things, not putting things into play.

[Versus]

Thanks. I just wanted to be sure about that.

[RoddyVR]

That's a pretty interesting psych out tactic. Besides having an opponent waste a Stifle is there any other benefit to doing this?


if you're ALWAYS forgeting to add counters to your vial, tapping it when its set at 1, could be a way to remind yourself to add a counter when you untap it, so that you can vial in your 2 cost creature...

could also have a reverse psycology effect on opponent... if you're tapping your vial every turn and not always putting a creature into play, then eventualy your opponents will STOP stifling your vial activations... which is good for the one time you realy need that meddling mage or whatever to be put into play by the vial.

also, immagine the confusion you will cause when you activate vial with 0 counters on it during your main phase after casting the vial ("you're vialing in a 0 cost creature? huh?")

[Versus]

if you're ALWAYS forgeting to add counters to your vial, tapping it when its set at 1, could be a way to remind yourself to add a counter when you untap it, so that you can vial in your 2 cost creature...

This would help me immensely! Too many times during competitive Magic do I forget to do stuff simply out of nervousness. I remember the first time I played a Slaughter Pact in T2 I fucking held my hand over three Swamps for the remainder of the turn.


could also have a reverse psycology effect on opponent... if you're tapping your vial every turn and not always putting a creature into play, then eventualy your opponents will STOP stifling your vial activations... which is good for the one time you realy need that meddling mage or whatever to be put into play by the vial.

I was thinking that. Having it sit there for a few turns charging up until you finally activate it gives your opponent plenty of time to react. Keep them guessing.


also, immagine the confusion you will cause when you activate vial with 0 counters on it during your main phase after casting the vial ("you're vialing in a 0 cost creature? huh?")

HA! Turn 1 Ornithopters FTW! :wink:

Thanks for the tips. I was gonna start playing a deck that runs Vial and wasn't really sure about all the strategies involved.

[cdr]

This would help me immensely! Too many times during competitive Magic do I forget to do stuff simply out of nervousness. I remember the first time I played a Slaughter Pact in T2 I fucking held my hand over three Swamps for the remainder of the turn.

You can put something (like a die) on top of your deck now to remind yourself of upkeep effects. The rules were changed to allow this specifically because of the consequences of forgetting Pacts.

I see quite a few people put a die set at 1 on top of their deck when they play a Vial, and then just move the die to the Vial when they go to draw for their turn. Cute, but you have to put something else on top after that anyway.

[Tacosnape]

I see quite a few people put a die set at 1 on top of their deck when they play a Vial, and then just move the die to the Vial when they go to draw for their turn. Cute, but you have to put something else on top after that anyway.

You could just set a die at 2 on there after that, then move the die at 1 back on top set to 3 once you move the die at 2 to the Vial.

I love the marker for upkeep thing, personally. I've got a big red poker chip that says "GET SQUEE BACK, FOOL" on it in large letters.

[Ewokslayer]

You could just set a die at 2 on there after that, then move the die at 1 back on top set to 3 once you move the die at 2 to the Vial.

I love the marker for upkeep thing, personally. I've got a big red poker chip that says "GET SQUEE BACK, FOOL" on it in large letters.

I wonder if that would be considered illegal outside notes since it has writing on it.

[RoddyVR]

You can put something (like a die) on top of your deck now to remind yourself of upkeep effects. The rules were changed to allow this specifically because of the consequences of forgetting Pacts.

I see quite a few people put a die set at 1 on top of their deck when they play a Vial, and then just move the die to the Vial when they go to draw for their turn. Cute, but you have to put something else on top after that anyway.

That was a helpfull rulings change, and i've seen that "put a 1 die on deck" thing too. For me it tends to be the later vial updates that i forget though, like going from 2 (where they always sit in my deck) to 3 when the rare occasion comes up where i want to leave the 2 spot. I always skip over it and then cant vial in the harmonic sliver that would finaly kill that dam crusible that keeps recuring the wasteland.

Also, putting a marker on your deck sort of tells your opponent that you need to up your vial next turn, which can give them some info if they know your deck. Like in my case if i marked the deck when my vial is at 2, my opponent would prety much know i have no crystaline or muscle slivers in hand left.

But if you just tap the vial, watch them sweat a bit over deciding to stifle it, and then "decide" not to bring a creature in, you'll have a reminder in a tapped vial but not give as much info away. Although i guess it realy does give the same info away... ah well...

[Nihil Credo]

I wonder if that would be considered illegal outside notes since it has writing on it.
He could find someone who plays miniature games and get a little Goblin one.

[Lego]

I wonder if that would be considered illegal outside notes since it has writing on it.

I'm pretty sure that's outside notes. You're allowed to remind yourself of upkeep triggers, but you're not allowed to bring outside notes that remind you how to play the game. In this case, it's "reminding" you that when Squee triggers, you should return him to your hand. It's on the line, but I would rule it illegal. Talk to your head judge before you use this at a tournament.

[Phantom]

It's a POKER CHIP that says SQUEE on it! I personally think it should count as a legit poker chip at casinos too.

[cdr]

I wonder if that would be considered illegal outside notes since it has writing on it.

Ewokslayer is right - it's no different than writing "Get Squee back!" on Squee, which is definitely not allowed.

[RoddyVR]

Ewokslayer is right - it's no different than writing "Get Squee back!" on Squee, which is definitely not allowed.

Wow, that surprises me...

So if he's allowed to put something on his deck to remind himself, could that something be a piece of the paper he uses to keep life totals on?

And I assume we're allowed to write stuff down during the game. I've seen people write down cards they've seen in opponent hand with duress and such, and i hope they werent all cheating.

Could he write down "get squee back" on a piece the life totals paper, rip that off and put it on top of his deck...

Its not "outside" notes?

I know this is nitpicking, but i think it is nitpicking what is basicaly two conflicting rules, and i'd like to know which one is "more important".

[Ewokslayer]

Well you can write notes during a match but you can't references notes made before the match.
A writen reminder to get Squee back would be outside notes if it was made before the match began.

It's kind of like the difference between going into a physics test with a note with F=ma on it and writting down the equation as you solve the problem so you don't screw it up.

[Versus]

How about a image of Squee on the poker chip? Would that be considered "outside notes"? I say fuck with everyone's mind and put a picture of Samuel L. Jackson's on top of your library as a reminder. Then repeat to yourself, SQUEE MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT!? I don't think you'll ever forget to pay an upkeep cost again.

[Ewokslayer]

How about a image of Squee on the poker chip? Would that be considered "outside notes"?
Probably since it is not only a reminder to recur squee but also a reminder to get squee in the first place.

I doubt this will every really come up, especially in Legacy.

[Pinder]

I heartily endorse the Sam L. Jackson plan, though.

[cdr]

How about a image of Squee on the poker chip? Would that be considered "outside notes"? I say fuck with everyone's mind and put a picture of Samuel L. Jackson's on top of your library as a reminder. Then repeat to yourself, SQUEE MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT!? I don't think you'll ever forget to pay an upkeep cost again.

Do you really need a picture of Squee? Is having the chip on top of your deck not enough?

Outside Assistance mainly applies to written notes, although it could also apply to pictures if it were blatent enough. I think a picture of Squee would be approaching borderline, but acceptable in my opinion.