Would You Do The Trade?

[umbowta]

It's not often that players really have the time to think over a trade. Now that I do, I thought I'd ask, and welcome others to ask...Would you do the trade?



Here's what I'm considering:

My 3x Chinese Foil Tarmogoyfs < for > His Beta Taiga and Library of Alexandria.

Assuming all cards are Near Mint...Would you do it?

[Nihil Credo]

I don't get it. How can he block your Goyfs with two lands?

[TeenieBopper]

I don't get it. How can he block your Goyfs with two lands?

Wins the thread.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Library goes for ~ $150, Beta Taiga goes for ~$100

One foil S. Chinese Tarmogoyf is going for $130.

It looks like $390 (you) vs. ~$250.

[Wallace]

You could prob. get a little more for the Goyf's. They go like $120-$150 each and the Libary goes for like $120-$140 and Beta Taiga is about the same as the Libary. Try and get some more for the Goyf's.

[umbowta]

I don't get it. How can he block your Goyfs with two lands?Oh...sorry. He has two Lifespark Spellbombs, Mirari's Wake, Gaea's Anthem, plenty of mana and a Glorius Anthem on the board. I swing in with the Goyfs. He STP's one of them, animates the taiga and the library with spellbombs and passes priority in order to proceed with the declare blockers step....way to hijack the thread with the first reply, Nihil. I'm tempted to add that gem to the Great Source Quotes thread.

[Jander78]

Library goes for ~ $150, Beta Taiga goes for ~$100

One foil S. Chinese Tarmogoyf is going for $130.

It looks like $390 (you) vs. ~$250.
This is very, very upsetting news to me. I looked at the opening post and was like, hell yeah, why wouldn't I do it. But, man, a creature is worth more than a beta dual and the best land ever printed, go figure.

[Wallace]

Check this out:

Japanese: 1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Foil-Japanese-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-NM-MTG-Vintage-Hot_W0QQitemZ310001078708QQihZ021QQcategoryZ19115QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), 2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/FUT-Tarmogoyf-Foil-Japanese_W0QQitemZ280177663728QQihZ018QQcategoryZ19115QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Simp. Chinese: 1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Futuresight-FOIL-S-CHINESE-Tarmogoyf-MTG-NM-x1_W0QQitemZ160164088234QQihZ006QQcategoryZ19115QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem), 2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Foil-S-Chinese-Tarmogoyf-Future-Sight-Mint-MTG_W0QQitemZ260187819630QQihZ016QQcategoryZ19115QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[umbowta]

Actually, those two Chinese auctions are already on my watch page because I was thinking about finishing the playset. It's rediculous how good goyfs look in Asian foil. They remind me of the Alien movie series. I almost want to put them in a deck with Spiritmongers for the whole Aliens VS Predator thing. Movie themed casual decks are great fun. It's just that Slivers make much better Aliens.

@Jander, That's exactly what I was thinking...then I checked on eBay and my jaw dropped.

EDIT deleted a bunch of shit. I really don't want to debate future card values /EDIT

[DeathwingZERO]

Simply put, Goyf won't be going down for a while. The Beta Taiga and Library are both pretty solid as well, but the demand for either isn't anywhere near the same as the beloved (or much hated) big green bastard, and probably won't be for some time to come.

[TrialByFire]

Goyf > all

keep them

[Tacosnape]

But, man, a creature is worth more than a beta dual and the best land ever printed, go figure.

Last I checked, Islands only booked $0.10.

[Kronicler]

Well heck, if we are on the subject, how bout I post a trade that I'm thinking of doing? Here it is:
My:
4x NM Counterbalance @ $2 each = $8
4x NM Umezawa’s Jitte @ $9 each = $36
4x NM Pithing Needle @ $12 each = $48
4x NM Windswept Heath @ $10 each = $40
4x NM Bloodstained Mire @ $10 each = $40
4x NM Chrome Mox @ $10 each = $40
1x NM Tundra @ $25
3x NM Sensei’s Divining Top @ $2 each = $6
Total = 243
for His:
4x Foil Bloodstained Mire @ $30 each = $120
4x Foil Windswept Heath @ $30 each = $120
1x FNM Fire/Ice @ $3
Total = $243

As you can see I've already spent the time pricing everything out, which makes the discussion more based on personal preference than value. This seems like an incredible trade to me though. Trading up is never a bad thing, and foil fetch lands aren't exactly easy to find, amirite?

Kronicler

[Getsickanddie]

Well heck, if we are on the subject, how bout I post a trade that I'm thinking of doing? Here it is:
My:
4x NM Counterbalance @ $2 each = $8
4x NM Umezawa’s Jitte @ $9 each = $36
4x NM Pithing Needle @ $12 each = $48
4x NM Windswept Heath @ $10 each = $40
4x NM Bloodstained Mire @ $10 each = $40
4x NM Chrome Mox @ $10 each = $40
1x NM Tundra @ $25
3x NM Sensei’s Divining Top @ $2 each = $6
Total = 243
for His:
4x Foil Bloodstained Mire @ $30 each = $120
4x Foil Windswept Heath @ $30 each = $120
1x FNM Fire/Ice @ $3
Total = $243

As you can see I've already spent the time pricing everything out, which makes the discussion more based on personal preference than value. This seems like an incredible trade to me though. Trading up is never a bad thing, and foil fetch lands aren't exactly easy to find, amirite?

Kronicler


You're trading up into equal monetary value? Fucking do that shit up.

[Kronicler]

You're trading up into equal monetary value? Fucking do that shit up.

My thoughts exactly.

[DeathwingZERO]

I'm curious what you used to get your price averages. Through FMC, your looking at a much different scale (and I personally always use FMC over Ebay, as 8-12 stores with 1k-5k+ feedback is infinitely better range of a real market than a few people on ebay barely pushing 500).

If I were trading to you, I'd give you my foils in a heartbeat. They aren't nearly as hard to get a hold of as people say, and the non-blue/non-Foothills ones have been steadily $30 since they were first legal. They've never stayed above this point.

Here's what your looking at for FMC averages:

Yours:
Counterbalance = 11
Chrome Mox = 52
Umezawa's Jitte = 44
Pithing Needle = 60
Windswept Heath = 50
Bloodstained Mire = 56
Tundra (assuming Revised) = 40
Sensei's Divining Top = 10
Total = 323

vs.

Bloodstained Mire (foil) = 120
Windswept Heath (foil) = 120
Fire/Ice FNM = 10 (this is really high as a store average, strangely enough)
Total = 250

Taking in a "true" average of the foils, they'd be $140 for the deckset, as I only saw 2 listings for either, both being $30 and $40. Even then, it looks like your still out roughly $30+ worth of VERY playable cards.

I would suggest if you do choose to take this trade, immediately get rid of those foil fetches trying to trade up for at least a 20% profit from what this is "costing" you. You may actually find someone willing to pay more, if your lucky.

[Getsickanddie]

Stuff
Tundra (assuming Revised) = 40
More Stuff


I pretty much stopped taking your post seriously at this point. Anecdotally looking at Kronicler's prices, I can say I'm fairly confidant I could unload those cards at those prices. The prices you listed, however, seem outrageous. Unless of course Kronicler owns a store front in Syracuse named "Play the Game, Read the Story".

[Kronicler]

I got my prices from MOTL, which I would say is fairly accurate for trade values. Your prices, on the other hand, are INSANE!!!! I don't know a single competent trader who would agree with any of them. In fact, the only place I could imagine seeing those values would be at my local card store or something, but then I'm sure the fetches would be hella higher too. SDT is over $3 each? Tundra at $40!?!??! You know what, if you value tundra at 40 I can trade you at least 2 full NM playsets right now. Seriously, let's talk.

Kronicler

[DeathwingZERO]

My prices come directly from FNM averages, which are pretty much the norm for anyone in this area. MOTL falls under the same problem as Ebay, being that it's primarily a site based on speculative trading, not really having any reference to driving forces behind card prices.

And as for nearly all shops in the NW and most of California areas, this IS the norm. The West Coast takes up about 2/3 of the main pricing from FNM.

[DeathwingZERO]

I don't know a single competent trader who would agree with any of them. In fact, the only place I could imagine seeing those values would be at my local card store or something, but then I'm sure the fetches would be hella higher too.

I also thought I'd push this out there, as it's exactly my point. Competent traders don't put out the market price of cards, the card stores that are supporting the formats however, do.

The worst case scenario on FNM and other store-based sales is that some stores want to attempt an undercut to liquidate cards. On the other hand, people who are just trading around are out to either rip people off, or are completely naive. The disparity between knowledge and lack of is why averages with traders are near impossible to determine.

[Nightmare]

Friday Night Magic != FindMagicCards.

Just saying.

Also, No one in their right mind (which obviously excludes California) would ever try to get store prices for their cards. No person in any trade has employees to pay or overhead costs. There is no markup. You might, MIGHT get somebody to give you $30 for a NM Tundra. More likely you're going to get the real price, which is more like 25-28. There is a reason that you're selling tundras to FMC at like 18 and buying at 40. It's a terrible site.

[Cavius The Great]

Slay wants to trade me a Beta Mox Ruby in played condition for like 10-12 duals. Do you guys think I should? (a perfect thread for me to ask this question. :tongue: )

[freakish777]

Last I checked, Tolarian Academy only booked $14.00.

Fixed.

[Afro]

Slay wants to trade me a Beta Mox Ruby in played condition for like 10-12 duals. Do you guys think I should? (a perfect thread for me to ask this question. :tongue: )

Really depends on the dualies. Feel free to pm me about this.

[Lego]

Slay wants to trade me a Beta Mox Ruby in played condition for like 10-12 duals. Do you guys think I should? (a perfect thread for me to ask this question. :tongue: )

You're trading up, so you're going to be trading for slightly higher than the value of the card, so depending on the duals (both type and quality) it's probably not a bad trade. We'd have to know more specifics, but on the surface it's not horrendous.

[freakish777]

We'd have to know more specifics

Like pix of the Mox in question. Played isn't a very precise term.

[Michael Keller]

It's not often that players really have the time to think over a trade. Now that I do, I thought I'd ask, and welcome others to ask...Would you do the trade?



Here's what I'm considering:

My 3x Chinese Foil Tarmogoyfs < for > His Beta Taiga and Library of Alexandria.

Assuming all cards are Near Mint...Would you do it?


Don't do it.

[wmagzoo7]

DeathwingZero I understand that you think that the store prices are "fair" and MOTL and Ebay are both under priced because they don't support the format but for God's Sake 40 on Tundra. Legacy and to a larger extent Vintage are not supported by Stores and the same goes with constructed tournies held at larger places like convention centers. At my local shop, the owners constantly argue with me about prices, because they think that all of my prices are way to low because I go by Ebay compared to FMC. Then I ask them why their Bloodstained mires for 24 are not selling and they tell me because the right customer hasn't showed up for them and I laugh. Think about the difference between a store and person, paying employees and rent by selling cards is tough and therefore they need crazy markup but if you have a storefront and aren't an individual player/trader then use FMC otherwise help yourself with ebay or motl.

[Cait_Sith]

4x NM Umezawa’s Jitte @ $9 each = $36
4x NM Pithing Needle @ $12 each = $48
Kronicler

The prices on these seem a little low. I've seen Jitte's run for 10-11$ normally, and 13-15$ on the Needle. Thankfully, Needle has dropped in my area thanks to 10th (Yay for 15$ down from 20$!).

The trade still seems pretty good though.

[Slay]

Legacy and to a larger extent Vintage are not supported by Stores

Uh, what?
-Slay

[goobafish]

Jittes are 7-8, Needles at 12.

[Afro]

Uh, what?
-Slay

Legacy is a community driven format. Sure some stores hold tournaments for the format but 95% of stores make their money off of drafting, standard, and to a lesser extent extended.

[kirdape3]

The biggest cash cows are prereleases, not even close.

[DeathwingZERO]

Legacy is a community driven format. Sure some stores hold tournaments for the format but 95% of stores make their money off of drafting, standard, and to a lesser extent extended.

Legacy and Vintage are also the top $$ when money is concerned on trade ins. This is because those who have older collections that don't care about the cards are not going to be acknowledging that they are actually getting rid of a few thousand dollar collection for a few hundred. I've seen it happen many times, and I've been a part of deals like that myself.

Any "community" needs support of stores. If you don't have anywhere to play, your not going to get the community noticed. GP events and Worlds and the like are not able to be run outside of Wizards' sponsorship, so obviously it needs either cons or storefronts for that. Remember that the real support is the storefronts, or have you forgotten how much money Wizards lost on their stores before they had to close them down? They don't know how to run the market, all they know is how to produce and distribute.

[Tacosnape]

You have to get a store that cares, though, and most don't. Why manage a whole array of single cards and sponsor eternal formats when you can just be lazy, buy cases of new sets, and sponsor Drafts and Standard?

Legacy is as community driven as anything gets. The fact that it's actually alive and well despite lack of support from anything other than the player base is a testament to this.

[freakish777]

The biggest cash cows are prereleases, not even close.

kirdape's dead on here. You basically spend $50+ a day on a weekend for some crappy cards, a promo foil, and to hang out with friends while playing Magic.

$30 for Sealed (3 packs + a Sealed deck)? That's right you basically give them an additional $8 to play with the new cards (and if it's not the first set of the block, only half the cards are new) 2 weeks early.

$15 a draft (if you've played in Sealed already, otherwise $18)? You're paying an extra $1 per pack (or $2 if you haven't entered a Sealed event).

Paying $4 a pack to draft isn't so hot to begin with (worth it every once in a while, if you do it on a constant basis, you'd better hope you're good enough to win some packs to defer to cost or have a rediculous disposable income).

[Skogen]

If you want to sell a Tundra for 20, I will buy ALL of them. Infact based on that price, I would buy every dual land you have if you offered them at an equally retarded price. Maybe the east coast has a more concentrated supply of duals which alters the magic economy, but I am pretty sure I know at least 6 people who would even buy a Tundra for 30 right away.

I haven't been to a store that doesn't reference FMC pricing. Stores aren't going to mark up a single card to make budget/margin, they do that with boxes and booster packs that they can pick up for 60-70 a box at their distributer. I guess that is just the thing though since around here I wouldn't really know where else to get cards except a store. I don't think I've ever really seen anyone trading for shit other than what is in Type II or random casual jank. Even if people did trade for 1.5 stuff they are probably going to compare dollar value card by card and ask the owner of the store what he/she/it thinks each card is going to go for; once again leading us back to FMC.

[freakish777]

Maybe the east coast has a more concentrated supply of duals which alters the magic economy

The internet (ebay) and the low cost of shipping make the US market for Magic cards pretty homogenous...

$30 for a Tundra is pushing the upper limit.

[Zuriya]

At ebay.de , the lowest price for a Tundra is 22 € (no buy it now).
22 * 1.4631 = 32.1882 $. I don't know the prices overseas, but 30$ doesn't seem very expensive. Even 40 doesn't seem so far fetched.

[goobafish]

Both $30 and $40 are far fetched. You can grab em at MOTL for about 24-25, but a playset commands a premium.

[mikekelley]

There is no set number on these things. I picked up an NM set of Tundras (that would be 4, four) tundras for 60 dollars in June from a guy on ebay with 0 feedback. I had paypal and buyer protection, so there was really no reason to be too afraid. Everything worked out fine.

If you know when and where to look, you can get them for cheap.

[Cait_Sith]

Overall, 30$ is not absurd for a blue dual in NM condition. It is when I see non-blue for 30$-40$ that I snicker at anyone who would buy them at those absurd prices.

[umbowta]

Slay wants to trade me a Beta Mox Ruby in played condition for like 10-12 duals. Do you guys think I should? (a perfect thread for me to ask this question. :tongue: )

Yeah, I'd have to see the Mox, cause I've seen some pretty shitty "played" cards before. If it's in good to Very good condition I would do it for sure. It might even be worth more than 12 duals if its in good enough "played" condition. If it looks like it got wet or has any creases...no way. Got pics?

[Cavius The Great]

Yeah, I'd have to see the Mox, cause I've seen some pretty shitty "played" cards before. If it's in good to Very good condition I would do it for sure. It might even be worth more than 12 duals if its in good enough "played" condition. If it looks like it got wet or has any creases...no way. Got pics?

I don't have any pics cuz Slay is the one that owns the card. I took a glance at it when Slay showed me it and the front didn't look too bad. I only wish I would of thought to analyze the card further. The front seems far from played but I didn't get a good look at the back side of the card, which probably matters the most.

[Slay]

'Played' means here that theres a lot of white marks around the edge of the card, perfectly flat with heavy use on the back.
-Slay

[Cavius The Great]

'Played' means here that theres a lot of white marks around the edge of the card, perfectly flat with heavy use on the back.
-Slay

Slay, the front of the card looked almost immaculate though. I didn't really notice that the card was played when you showed me it.

[mikekelley]

What do people think of this trade?

4x Plateau Revised VG
35 dollars

for my:


4x Lackey
4x Piledriver
3x SGC
1x Sharpshooter
4x Warchief
4x Ringleader
4x Gempalm
4x Matron
4x Fanatic

I'm leaning on the side of my gobs being worth more.

[Cait_Sith]

That is terrible. 2 Lackeys is roughly worth the same as 1 of his Plateaus.

The Piledrivers go for more than the Lackeys, so between the Drivers and Lackeys, he will already be getting a slightly good deal. The rest is just free cash.

[Nihil Credo]

I think he would be getting 35 dollars in addition to the playset of Plateaus.

[mikekelley]

Yeah, I'm getting the duals and the money, he just wants the goblins.

[Lego]

Let's work this out real quick.


What do people think of this trade?

4x Plateau Revised VG- Call these $18 a piece.
35 dollars

for my:


4x Lackey- These are at least $9 a piece. I mean, SCG sells them for $15.
4x Piledriver- This is easily $12. Again, $16 on SCG.
3x SGC- I'm going to assume these are Scourge, although it doesn't matter much, and we'll call them $4 a piece.
1x Sharpshooter- What, like $6? I'm unsure.
4x Warchief- Call these $2.
4x Ringleader- I think this is like $3, but that might be a little high.
4x Gempalm- Not even $1? Call it $3 for the playset? *shrug*
4x Matron- Unless these are Portal, then $1 is maybe high. They were common at first. You could probably call it $4 for the set if they're BB.
4x Fanatic- $1? They're Type 2 Legal, at least. Do they go for $2?

I'm leaning on the side of my gobs being worth more.

His total: $107. Maybe $115 if you wanna be nice and they're in really good condition.

Your total: $133, although you can fudge that a little.

I think you definitely need more. Plus, I think the fact that you're trading an entirely built Goblins deck means that you should value it much higher.

[mikekelley]

Cool, I wasn't sure on how 'hot' goblins were right now and didn't price them accordingly. Thanks!

[DeathwingZERO]

Regardless of their playability in Legacy, you have to remember the deck is picking up INCREDIBLE results in Vintage again (wtf Leyline maindeck, lol) and it's still a very solid contender in Extended.

WTF uses Plateaus?

I rest my case.

[fetchesbasiclands]

what do you guys think about this trade?
my:
badlands
taiga
3 plateau
10 euros
his:
3 tarmogoyf
all the duals are from revised and in nm condition

[Jak]

NO!!!! Goyf is $40 right now. Threee of them would make his total come to $120. Those duals go for like $20 to $30. So lets just say $25 each. That is $125 right there, so bad trade for you.

[Zach Tartell]

NO!!!! Goyf is $40 right now.

I disagree. (http://magictraders.com/cgi-bin/query.cgi?list=magic&target=tarmogoyf&field=0&operator=re)

[Jak]

Tell me where you can buy them for 30.

[Shtriga]

Well heck, if we are on the subject, how bout I post a trade that I'm thinking of doing? Here it is:
My:
4x NM Counterbalance @ $2 each = $8
4x NM Umezawa’s Jitte @ $9 each = $36
4x NM Pithing Needle @ $12 each = $48
4x NM Windswept Heath @ $10 each = $40
4x NM Bloodstained Mire @ $10 each = $40
4x NM Chrome Mox @ $10 each = $40
1x NM Tundra @ $25
3x NM Sensei’s Divining Top @ $2 each = $6
Total = 243
for His:
4x Foil Bloodstained Mire @ $30 each = $120
4x Foil Windswept Heath @ $30 each = $120
1x FNM Fire/Ice @ $3
Total = $243

As you can see I've already spent the time pricing everything out, which makes the discussion more based on personal preference than value. This seems like an incredible trade to me though. Trading up is never a bad thing, and foil fetch lands aren't exactly easy to find, amirite?

Kronicler


maybe its just me that doesn't give a damn about foils, but I think its a terrible trade. youre losing a full playset of jittes, needles, moxes and countertop for the same cards you already own, except shiny. unless you have an extra playset of those, in which case its ok I guess.

[Zach Tartell]

Tell me where you can buy them for 30.

That's a database set up by Magic Traders to average out the sales of Tarmogoyfs on eBay. I'm not sure if it takes into account foreign ones (if you look, you'll see that a single Tarmogoyf went for $107 and change), which would result in the average being lower. Read the data, dude; it says that a single goyf went for $12. Just get on eBay and don't buy in playsets - that's how they get you.

[Jak]

Well the same can be said about the Duals. I have gotten ones for $12. But still, stores all over sell him for $40. It would still be a bad deal for the poster asking the question.

[Ebinsugewa]

Just as an aside: anyone who says that you should pay a premium for a playset or a full deck.. that's bull. You should pay less because you're taking the whole thing at once instead of forcing them to sell the cards separately.

[Cait_Sith]

That is true in most cases, but he is selling an entire deck here. That mean he is helping the person to avoid easily 20$-30$ shipping costs (possibly more if you are forced to buy more singles) to gas money from driving around trying to find all the parts.

It is the old rule: you pay for convenience.

[Lego]

Just as an aside: anyone who says that you should pay a premium for a playset or a full deck.. that's bull. You should pay less because you're taking the whole thing at once instead of forcing them to sell the cards separately.

Whether or not it's bull, that's the way it works. If you're selling an entire deck, you'll pay a bit more than you would for the cards individually. If you're trading up, you should expect to give a little bit more than the actual value of the card. The same doesn't really hold true for playsets.


Regardless of their playability in Legacy, you have to remember the deck is picking up INCREDIBLE results in Vintage again (wtf Leyline maindeck, lol) and it's still a very solid contender in Extended.

Speaking of which, get rid of all your Extended playables that you don't want pretty soon. Right now is Extended PTQ season, and come next year, everything before Mirrodin is rotating out. Let me repeat that: On October 20th, 2008, MIRRODIN WILL BE THE OLDEST SET IN EXTENDED. How crazy is that?

If you're not going to use them for a while, it's probably smart to offload Extended playable cards now, and pick them up again when the Extended season ends, or when Extended rotates next year.

[The Rack]

I sold 2 Goyfs for 85.00 to this guy, I guess foriegners like paying a lot for English cards. I don't really know.