Stifle vs. Storm

[StarHawk]

I have a question does stifle stop storm counts thanks.

[Bryant Cook]

I have a question does stifle stop storm counts thanks.

Yes.

[diffy]

Link (http://starcitygames.com/pages/judgefinder.php?keywords=stifle&Submit2=Ask+The+Judge%21)



Q: Can Stifle stop a card from copying itself by Storm? The rules say that storm is a triggered ability, but by the time you play the card with Storm, aren't the copies on the stack already and the point is moot?

A: The Storm ability goes on the stack on top of the original spell. When it resolves, you put the appropriate number of spell copies on the stack. If you counter the original triggered ability, no copies will be produced.


So yes, Stifle will stop storm counts.



502.30a - Storm is a triggered ability that functions while the spell is on the stack.
502.30.Ruling.5 - Countering the original spell will not stop the copies from being created.


Storm is a triggered ability that puts copies of the spell directly onto the stack. If you stifle the storm trigger, no copies will be added to the stack but the original spell will still be there.
As an aside (some people don't know this), you can also counter the individual copies created by the storm trigger just like normal spells.

[blac198990]

got a question that kinda goes with this. what if u dont have a stifle? and you have 3 counterspells and can play them. will the storm card get played and you counter it. will that counterspell go to the count. if not say the count is 3, can i counter all 3 or will the count just go up with each counter?

[freakish777]

Didn't we have one these last week that got answered in similar fashion and then locked?

Perhaps this should be sticked (rather a different topic with just the ruling, maybe even a "What Stifle Works Against" thread) for the new players....

[Taurelin]

got a question that kinda goes with this. what if u dont have a stifle? and you have 3 counterspells and can play them. will the storm card get played and you counter it. will that counterspell go to the count. if not say the count is 3, can i counter all 3 or will the count just go up with each counter?

Just to get it clear.

Let's say, your opponent has just played Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Tendrils of Agony -> Stormcount 3.

This means that when Tendrils is played, 2 copies of it are put on the stack on top of the original, then your opponent gets priority. Then, if he passes, you are free to counter each single copy with one of your 3 Counterspells. These Counterspells do not raise the Stormcount, because the Storm-trigger has already resolved.

[nitewolf9]

Just to get it clear.

Let's say, your opponent has just played Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Tendrils of Agony -> Stormcount 3.

This means that when Tendrils is played, 2 copies of it are put on the stack on top of the original, then your opponent gets priority. Then, if he passes, you are free to counter each single copy with one of your 3 Counterspells. These Counterspells do not raise the Stormcount, because the Storm-trigger has already resolved.

Not exactly. When Tendrils is played a storm trigger goes on the stack and then you get priority. This is where you could play stifle to stop the trigger from resolving. If there are copies on the stack that means the storm trigger has already resolved.

So the stack would look like this:
(top)
storm trigger
tendrills
(bottom)

-you get priority, pass back...new stack:
(top)
copy
copy
tendrils
(bottom)

Now you get priority again and can counter the individual copies.

[Taurelin]

Not exactly. When Tendrils is played a storm trigger goes on the stack and then you get priority. This is where you could play stifle to stop the trigger from resolving.

Yes, of course. I simply took a shortcut to demonstrate when to play the counters in case you don't have Stifle.

[Lego]

These Counterspells do not raise the Stormcount, because the Storm-trigger has already resolved.

Not entirely true. They still raise the Storm count, but that doesn't change the already resolved Storm trigger. If a new Storm spell is cast this turn, it will have a higher Storm count.

[FoolofaTook]

Link (http://starcitygames.com/pages/judgefinder.php?keywords=stifle&Submit2=Ask+The+Judge%21)
Storm is a triggered ability that puts copies of the spell directly onto the stack. If you stifle the storm trigger, no copies will be added to the stack but the original spell will still be there.
As an aside (some people don't know this), you can also counter the individual copies created by the storm trigger just like normal spells.

So if I have Counterbalance in play and the appropriate CMC spell on top of my library I can stop all copies of a Storm spell assuming I can stop the first?

Each copy of the spell resolves individually and Counterbalance can be activated for each of them?

[Nihil Credo]

So if I have Counterbalance in play and the appropriate CMC spell on top of my library I can stop all copies of a Storm spell assuming I can stop the first?

Each copy of the spell resolves individually and Counterbalance can be activated for each of them?
No. Counterbalance's ability, like Chalice of the Void's, is triggered, and it triggers when an opponent plays a spell.

Therefore, only the original Storm spell will trigger Counterbalance and (possibly) get countered. The other copies are put on the stack, not played, and thus circumvent the enchantment.

[FoolofaTook]

No. Counterbalance's ability, like Chalice of the Void's, is triggered, and it triggers when an opponent plays a spell.

Therefore, only the original Storm spell will trigger Counterbalance and (possibly) get countered. The other copies are put on the stack, not played, and thus circumvent the enchantment.

That's a relief. I had visions of Legacy becoming Counterbalance+.

[Bovinious]

Because Counterbalance would really stop Tendrils or Empty the Warrens anyways...

[FoolofaTook]

Because Counterbalance would really stop Tendrils or Empty the Warrens anyways...

Well, only if you have Moat in your deck and Enlightened Tutors to pull it top when you need it. Zvi really does have a clue with that build. I guess the only 4cc killers he was planning to stop were IGG and Armageddon but there are a bunch of rogue 4cc spells that would absolutely destroy a control shell that was unfortunate enough to run into them without FoW in hand.