[New Set] Morning Tide

[Wallace]

Here is a bunch of Art from morning Tide. If anyone else has info/scans for the set, let us all know!


Pics can be viewed here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=960291), I am not going to post all of them, again.

MTG Salvation partial Spoiler (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html).

[Lego]

I can't be the only one who is incredibly excited about this set, right? From a completely non-Legacy standpoint, I absolutely love Lorwyn. I think the Draft format is rich and enjoyable, Standard is wide open, and block is going to be a whole lot of fun. There's just something about Lorwyn that makes you feel like you're playing Magic the way it was supposed to be played.

And the flavor is so deep and wonderful. Look at cards like Sygg, River Guide and Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile. They're not only well balanced and powerful cards in their own rights, they're perfect from a flavor standpoint. They do exactly what those creatures should do. Awesome.

[Bardo]

You're not the only one--this set is totally sweet. I love the color palette--a roundhouse kick to the back of the eyeballs.

[Alfred]

Prediction:

-The Giant with the two stone axes will be kickass.

[Cait_Sith]

Almost all the Giants are kickass, just too expensive to be played at a reasonable pace. They would be a great tribe vs Control if there was a lot of Control.

Also, all those links are broken.

Edit: No wonder. The Owner took them all down.

[Illissius]

Yeah, I'm rather impressed with Lorwyn, compared to what my expectations were ("oh fuck, not another Tribal block"). The flavor is so infinitely better than Onslaught, and they managed to execute the Tribal theme well without going apeshit with linear mechanics (and pushing Legacy Goblins over the line). The "reveal a (card of tribe) card to get an effect" and Thoughtseize were rather cheap shots, though. And clash is still dumb. But whatever, still a lot better than I expected.

I just hope they can keep it up with Morningtide.

[cheddercaveman]

I think the deal with Lorwyn is that they've got really good cards that are still restrictive and limited enough to not be absoluately broken. In the past this wasnt true, cards were either looked at as subpar or were just absolutely too good (*cough* Jitte *cough* 'goyf). There are a lot of awesome interactions and card to play, but the restrictions on them helped. Not sure to put the in the positive or negative category, but for the first time since I can remember we have a standard essentially devoid of combo.

[Happy Gilmore]

Is it me of have they greatly improved the image of the merfolk? the are a lot more human now.

[Zach Tartell]

http://ugmadness.net/comics/2007-10-08.jpg

[Zach Tartell]

Guys! You gotta see this!
LINK!! NOW, DAMNIT!! (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html)

Taurean Mauler
Rare - :2::r:

2/2

Creature - Shapeshifter Rare
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Taurean Mauler.

[TeenieBopper]

Stonybrook Schoolmaster
2w
Creature - Merfolk Wizard Common
Whenever Stonybrook Schoolmaster becomes tapped, put a 1/1 blue Merfolk Wizard creature token into play.

Jesus christ, like Merfolk needed any help in limited.

[hi-val]

Those Faeries, especially in like the 3rd pic, look a lot like what I would envision Queen Maab to look like. Neat art!

[Tacosnape]

Guys! You gotta see this!
LINK!! NOW, DAMNIT!! (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html)

Taurean Mauler
Rare - :2::r:

2/2

Creature - Shapeshifter Rare
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Taurean Mauler.

Bye bye Sulfur Elemental in Dragon Stompy.:cool:

Maybe, anyway.

[RC Snakle]

Bye bye Sulfur Elemental in Dragon Stompy.:cool:

Maybe, anyway.

I thought about this earlier, and while it seems insane, its one of the least synergistic cards you could slot in. Dragon Stompy has 16+ cards to stop the opponent from ever playing anything ever again; a card that wants to see the opponent cast lots of spells doesnt make very much sense in such a deck.

Morningtide looks fun to draft; cant wait to do some LLM (or whatever the hell the new format is with the new block structure).

[Pinder]

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2704/109610cnyx6.jpg

Whatever card this is on better be kickass, so it can live up to the art.

Oh, and
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8379/110011cntb9.jpg

I'm on top of the wooooooooooorld!

[DeathwingZERO]

The giant's axes are made of fucking TREE TRUNKS. Not branches, TRUNKS. That guy better damn well be a 6/6 or bigger, or Wizards is gonna need to explain something.

[Tacosnape]

I thought about this earlier, and while it seems insane, its one of the least synergistic cards you could slot in. Dragon Stompy has 16+ cards to stop the opponent from ever playing anything ever again; a card that wants to see the opponent cast lots of spells doesnt make very much sense in such a deck.

The same thought had occurred to me, and it's currently waging war in my head with the concept that good decks run good cards and the logic that if we've shut the opponent off spells via Moon/Chalice, we're probably winning anyway. I'll have to test it.

I suspect this is going to be like so many of the other cards printed in that it turns out to be fool's gold and far less effective than it appears. However, it will be godly against cantrip-happy decks like Threshold.

[Zach Tartell]

Shit, play it in thresh. Ugr, I mean. Give you something to break a goyf-still.

[AngryTroll]

The green 4/4 for 4 doesn't look terrible. Maybe not 1.5 playable, but it's another solid 4/4 for 4 for green, which always makes me happy.

Still, though, a 4/4 for 4, that will almost always win in combat, and happily uses mana sitting around? It will at least be a house in Sealed and Draft. Might even see some play, but Phantom Centaur is probably better.

[GreenOne]

Guys! You gotta see this!
LINK!! NOW, DAMNIT!! (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html)

Taurean Mauler
Rare - :2::r:

2/2

Creature - Shapeshifter Rare
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Taurean Mauler.

Thiscould be decent in gobbos too, if the 3cc slot wasn't clogged anyway... It can help solving the Tarmo-problem and survives Pyroclasm all day.

[Media314r8]

Bricks shat @ white COMMON merfolk. I realize it's only him, but springleaf drums are going to start being snatched up much faster.

Bricks also shat @ Green fattie and Red inverse dryad. ITS A FUCKING GOBLIN OMFG!!!! WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

may I restate that: WRYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

[technogeek5000]

here is a pic for taurean mauler i found on salvation.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62044&stc=1&d=1197258404

[Bryant Cook]

I'd be stoked if they printed, eyedunno good sorceries. I'd be thrilled for G or W Destroy target enchantment.

[Nihil Credo]

Screw this changeling nonsense. Did you read the card name? Taurean Mauler.

This guy is clearly a Minotaur. Prepare yourself for a second Flash era.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Wow. Those cards are all quite exciting. That Bull will certainly fetch a pretty penny. Jeez.


EDIT: Just to point out that "Taurean" generally means "bull-animal" (like a cow) rather than "Minotaur". Sorry to poop on the party. :wink:

[TeenieBopper]

I'd be stoked if they printed, eyedunno good sorceries. I'd be thrilled for G or W Destroy target enchantment.

Demystify?

[diffy]

Demystify?


Demystify
Instant, W (1)
Destroy target enchantment.

He obviously wants to replace Tranquility in the BWish board of TES.

[Wallace]

Taurean Mauler http://mtgsalvation.com/images/image.png (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62044&stc=1&d=1197258404)

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gifCreature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Taurean Mauler.2/2

Holy shit, this guy is amazing!!! The fact that he's a changling just makes him even better, I mean he's and Elf, Mefolk, Soldier, Sliver and Goblin, there will deff. be a spot for this guy in a lot of decks.

[freakish777]

Or could Taurean be a play on words for Mike Turian and the fact that he created Tarmagoyf (and you have to play a bunch of cheap spells to make your Goyf big)....

[Pinder]

The fact that he's a changling just makes him even better, I mean he's and Elf, Mefolk, Soldier, Sliver and Goblin, there will deff. be a spot for this guy in a lot of decks.

I'm already contemplating new Sliver lists that take advantage of this guy....

[Peter_Rotten]

Is that a Kithkin riding a Jackallope (sp)?

[Zach Tartell]

I feel like it's a goat. Maybe Goatnapper will have some interaction with that shit.

Also, I reckon it's only one "l".

[APriestOfGix]

Chameleon Colossus


OMFG, 8 mana for a 16/16!!!

[Barook]

Chameleon Colossus

OMFG, 8 mana for a 16/16!!!
Plus, it's an elf! :laugh:

Taurean Mauler is really good. But we still have to see how good it really is because it depends so much on your opponent.

[Wallace]

Chameleon Colossus


OMFG, 8 mana for a 16/16!!!


Yeah sick huh, he's an Elf, Goblin, Sliver, kithkin, merfolk and a Beast. This guy will see play in Big Mana R/G in type 2 and Extended, don't know where he will fit in Legacy though.

[willo]

Chameleon Colossus
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Protection from Black
: Chameleon Colossus gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is equal to its power.
Illus. Darrell Riche #116/150 4/4

[Zach Tartell]

Less grainy pictures + 2 new ones!

Link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/morningtide/preview)

[Peter_Rotten]

LOL - does Goblins finally have a reason to splash Blue?

Distant Melody 3:u:
Sorcery
Choose a creature type. Draw a card for each permanent you control of that type.

Yes, sir, I would like to win more, please.

[Wallace]

The green 4/4 for 4 doesn't look terrible. Maybe not 1.5 playable, but it's another solid 4/4 for 4 for green, which always makes me happy.

Still, though, a 4/4 for 4, that will almost always win in combat, and happily uses mana sitting around? It will at least be a house in Sealed and Draft. Might even see some play, but Phantom Centaur is probably better.


Chameleon Colossus


OMFG, 8 mana for a 16/16!!!


Chameleon Colossus
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Protection from Black
: Chameleon Colossus gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is equal to its power.
Illus. Darrell Riche #116/150 4/4

Your a little late with that one man, but yeah he is sick.

[TeenieBopper]

LOL - does Goblins finally have a reason to splash Blue?

Distant Melody 3:u:
Sorcery
Choose a creature type. Draw a card for each permanent you control of that type.

Yes, sir, I would like to win more, please.

I'll stick with my FoF on legs, thanks.

[Tacosnape]

Yeaaah. Distant Melody = not a Legacy card.

[Aggro_zombies]

Yeaaah. Distant Melody = not a Legacy card.
What are you talking about? That shit is going to break Merfolk.dec in half.

[pooispoois]

I really hope those two rare changelings are part of some 5-card cycle that also happens to include a really fat Changeling. I look forward to sneaking them out with Didgeridoo :laugh:.

[TrialByFire]

I really hope those two rare changelings are part of some 5-card cycle that also happens to include a really fat Changeling. I look forward to sneaking them out with Didgeridoo :laugh:.

They are part of a 5 card cycle. The first 3 were in Lorwyn

Shapesharer
Cairn Wanderer
Mirror Entity

[C.P.]

What are you talking about? That shit is going to break Merfolk.dec in half.

How is this better than real Fact or fiction in Merfolk? You should expect that you'll have 3+ folks on the table at any time to make the card better than FoF, which I find dumb.

[Aggro_zombies]

How is this better than real Fact or fiction in Merfolk? You should expect that you'll have 3+ folks on the table at any time to make the card better than FoF, which I find dumb.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/jbrennan0512/pcfacepalm.jpg

[Soto]

I love the primal beyond art.

[C.P.]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/jbrennan0512/pcfacepalm.jpg

I'm ashamed.

Today's lesson: don't post drunk.

[throst54]

Oh, and
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8379/110011cntb9.jpg

I'm on top of the wooooooooooorld!

I was thinking more along the lines of:

LEERROOOYYYY JJJJEEEEENNNNNNKKKKKKKIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cabal-kun]

I was thinking more along the lines of:

LEERROOOYYYY JJJJEEEEENNNNNNKKKKKKKIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

He looks like he's in some serious pain, in that picture.

[willo]

There is now a Soldier Lackey!

Preeminent Captain 2w
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
First strike
Whenever Preeminent Captain attacks, you may put a Soldier creature card from your hand into play tapped and attacking.
"If you need an example to lead others to the front lines, consider the precedent set."
Illus. Greg Staples #20/150 2/2




With Changlings this card is amazing!

[freakish777]

What are you going to do with it? Drop Akron Legionnare into play (I would like to know how exactly it became a human and not a fricking giant)? Zhou Yu, Chief Commander? Raksha Golden Cub (isn't worth it unless every other creature in your deck is a cat)? Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior?

Face it, soldiers suck, even if this guy costed 1 for a 1/1.

[Soto]

With Changlings this card is amazing!

[freakish777]

Not in Legacy...

Besides, you can already drop Changelings in off of Lackey after tutoring for them with Matron...

[Soto]

Apart from the 3cc this card's still ok. Putting it into play attacking isn't too bad.

[willo]

First turn, Bird.

Second turn, Captian.

Third turn Chameleon Colossus, take 10 damage.

I don't know how well this will swing in Legacy, but it will be strong in Type 2.

[TeenieBopper]

Not in Legacy...

Besides, you can already drop Changelings in off of Lackey after tutoring for them with Matron...

Yeah, I'll keep dropping Siege-Gang Commander, thanks.

[freakish777]

Yeah, I'll keep dropping Siege-Gang Commander, thanks.

Exactly my point.

[DeathwingZERO]

That and Lackey requires not only combat damage, but the new creature needs to wait until next turn to swing.

I'm willing to pay 3 for a free AEther Vial trigger at my discretion, thanks.

Not saying I'd play this in Legacy, but I like the ability much better than Lackey's.

Oh, and if I had to choose, I'd probably put in Sun Quan. Dong Zhuo would be another favorite.

[Wallace]

Here's the card, sweet picture, hope this guy finds a spot somewhere.

<>><><<<><><><http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62352&d=1197954970

[technogeek5000]

soldier tribal? it has lackey, warchief, and a ringleader.

[rufus]

Hmm, can you chain them into play?
Beating with Changeling Titan isn't so bad.
Mirror Entity could also work.

Of course, those are going to find their way into lots of tribal concepts...

[Meekrab]

There's also the unblockable (Who plays creatures with Horsemanship?) Vigilant Zhang Fei, Fierce Warrior, from Portal 3 Kingdoms.

And Akron Legionnaire is also apparently a Soldier.

Ironically, "Spike Soldier" is not a Soldier.

Oh and hey Benalish Commander is as big as your Soldier army.

Actually, Aysen Crusader is better than Benalish Commander, because it'll be 1 point larger. "Heroes" = Soldiers and Warriors? Silly creature type cleanup.

[technogeek5000]

3 new cards from salvation. Im not sure how reliable they are.

Oakworn Ravager
3G
Creature - Treefolk Warrior
Vigilence
Whenever you play a treefolk spell, Oakworn Ravager gains +2/+0 and trample until the end of the turn.
2/4
rarity-uncommon
picture- A gigantic tree stomping all over the place, kithkin looking people running away from it. Ground around the tree breaking up through all the stomping.



Cursed Stinger
B
Creature - Faerie Rogue
Flying
As an additional cost to play Cursed Stinger, reveal a Faerie or Rogue card from your hand or pay 2.
When Cursed Stinger comes into play, target creature gets -1/-1 until the end of the turn.
1/1
rarity-common

The pic. a purplish looking faerie that kind of looks like an insect. It appears to be sucking some kind of venom out of a mushroom. There is the body of a dead goblin half-sticking out of a swamp.



Deathborn Entity
(no casting cost)
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changling
Evoke X1BB
When Deathborn Entity comes into play, all creatures gets -X/-X until end of turn.
2/2
rarity-uncommon

picture - The atmosphere is really creepy and spooky. Very cloudy in the picture, but you can tell there's kithkin all over the place being twisted and stretched out of shape, most of them are screaming.



Silvergill Mystic
2U
Creature - Merfolk Wizard
1U, T: Reveal the top three cards of your library. You may put 1 merfolk card revealed this way into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library.
1/2
rarity-uncommon

the last picture - the merfolks in the foreground appears to be waving its arms around, a sprout of water is coming up in the background with 3 merfolk coming out on top.

Edit oh and this:

http://www.avalak.com/images/alborada/cartas.gif

[Cabal-kun]

The supposed Merfolk looks somewhat decent. Sure, it's got an iffy cmc and a frail body, but it has a decent ability. Source of card advantage?

[MattH]

Entity seems interesting. Possible Survival sweeper bullet, since all you need is mana, as opposed to Death's Head Buzzard or Gloomdrifter. Also cheaper than Bane of the Living.

[etrigan]

Pretty much confirmed fake on MtgSalvation.

[Peter_Rotten]

Pretty much confirmed fake on MtgSalvation.

Which ones? All of them? The Black Evoke critter? Details and/or links, please.

[etrigan]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=99001

[Pinder]

In a bizarre twist, Boldwyr Intimidator is a Morningtide card (http://mtgsalvation.com/morningtide-spoiler.html#2136)! Break out your Warriors, folks!

Also seeing reprint is Elvish Warrior from Onslaught, which I think is a nice call for Standard and should be super for limited. Veteran's Armaments looks nifty, but it makes you run Soldiers. I'm pretty sure it's a cycle, though, so we'll see what else we get.

[Nihil Credo]

It will look pretty lame without the futureshifted card frame, though.

[etrigan]

I'm pretty sure it's a cycle, though, so we'll see what else we get.

Tribal wizards bitches!

[Mental]

Actually I'm liking Cursed Stinger. That guy seems like the one drop Faeries don't have.

EDIT: Does anyone else see the implications of Boldwyr's Reprint? Does it mean Goyf will be reprinted too?

[emidln]

Actually I'm liking Cursed Stinger. That guy seems like the one drop Faeries don't have.


It's only a one drop on the draw. On the play, it's probably not going to see play turn 1.

[Mental]

It's only a one drop on the draw. On the play, it's probably not going to see play turn 1.

Ouch, you're right. That kinda sucks.

[Illissius]

It's only a one drop on the draw. On the play, it's probably not going to see play turn 1.

Or any other turn, given that it's a fake.

EDIT -- New cards (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=99637).

Wolf-Skull Shaman has potential, I think. Too bad it'll be coming in at the same time Eladamri's current wording leaves.

[dahcmai]

I was kind of interested in this one.
Stomping Slabs http://mtgsalvation.com/images/image.png (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62469&stc=1&d=1198302848)

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif Sorceryhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-uncommon.gifReveal the top seven cards of your library, then put those cards on the bottom of your library in any order. If a card names Stomping Slabs was revealed this way, Stomping Slabs deals 7 damage to target creature or player.

So I guess the question is, if you reveal more than one, do you get to deal more than the initial 7 damage? If so, I can see it at least getting some play in Standard as a answer to extirpating relentless rats and maybe some odd form of combo in legacy in decks that can remove a ton of the library via consultation type cards.

If you don't get more than the 7 dmage, then it sucks.

[Nihil Credo]

It's the latter, and it sucks. Would have made a nice Doomsday or Insidious Dreams combo deck otherwise.

Sage of Fables would have some potential in a Wizards deck... too bad that deck is already clogged like hell at the 3-spot.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

So I guess the question is, if you reveal more than one, do you get to deal more than the initial 7 damage?You can only deal seven maximum. The way it's worded implies that it only cares if a card with the same name was revealed, not how many.

[Ashe]

Don't know if anyone posted this yet

but wizards nowdays keeps their confirmed cards also up to date on a page:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=magic/morningtide/preview

[Pinder]

Wolf-Skull Shaman has potential, I think. Too bad it'll be coming in at the same time Eladamri's current wording leaves.

They aren't leaving Eladamri as is? That's too bad. He might have made Elves viable. Still though, this guy looks nuts in Elves, even without Shroud. Can you imagine this guy with Bloodline Shaman? Look at the top card, if it's an elf you get a 2/2 wolf, tap Shaman, and draw it, if not, just draw it and tap shaman afterwards. The card selection is amazing. And with bear stats, he's not all bad himself, either.

[Media314r8]

Doesn't anyone else think that the kithkin land could be part of a cycle that would include the last invitational winner:

Awesome Land
Tap to add colorless
2UU, Discard Awesome Land: Counter target spell.

as we have seen with the kithkin land, perhaps the revised version would look like, with a "No U" mechanic, like the wizrad version of reinforce:

Wizard Land
As Wizards lands CiP, you may reveal a wizard card from your hand. If you don't, Wizard land CiP tapped.
Tap to add U
'No U":2UU (2UU, Discard Wizard Land: Counter target Spell)

Thoughts? Bricks Shat?

EDIT: Did anyone else think of the merfolk wizards' implication for limited when combined with Summon the School?

[TrialByFire]

Doesn't anyone else think that the kithkin land could be part of a cycle that would include the last invitational winner:

Awesome Land
Tap to add colorless
2UU, Discard Awesome Land: Counter target spell.

as we have seen with the kithkin land, perhaps the revised version would look like, with a "No U" mechanic, like the wizrad version of reinforce:

Wizard Land
As Wizards lands CiP, you may reveal a wizard card from your hand. If you don't, Wizard land CiP tapped.
Tap to add U
'No U":2UU (2UU, Discard Wizard Land: Counter target Spell)

Thoughts? Bricks Shat?

EDIT: Did anyone else think of the merfolk wizards' implication for limited when combined with Summon the School?

In response to Wizard land comment: I think you might be on to something
In response to Limited: Yes, it is fucking redonk. Usually when drafting Merfolk you get most of the good cads at the table, because they don't really go in any other deck. One or two of these guys plus Summon the School should end the game quickly. Thats not even counting if you hae Judge of Currents or Drowner in play. Busted

[Illissius]

They aren't leaving Eladamri as is? That's too bad. He might have made Elves viable.

I don't have any inside info or anything, but I'd be very surprised if they did. The current wording is functionally different from the intent and from the way they've handled every other similar card.

I'm still disappointed that no one (to my knowledge) has really given Eladamri Elves a shot at tournaments, despite the very long thread.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I'm still disappointed that no one (to my knowledge) has really given Eladamri Elves a shot at tournaments, despite the very long thread.

We had the same problem for the longest time with Meathooks. Its a shame that the window of opportunity to play the deck might close before anyone takes advantage of the opportunity to play it.

[TeenieBopper]

We had the same problem for the longest time with Meathooks. Its a shame that the window of opportunity to play the deck might close before anyone takes advantage of the opportunity to play it.

If it makes you feel any better, I think the deck will still be good even afterwards. Some of the elves printed are sick.

[Versus]

It's bound to happen at any time. Elves are pretty solid in Standard. Cheap, effective, deathtouching, mana producing, dude generating pain in the cocks. This Wolf-Skull dude and anything else WoTC decides to throw at them is just icing at this point.

[Ashe]

elves is in the section of deck to beat indeed, I had a T2 deck myself of it

over here, some guy went 3rd place with an elfdeck at the national legacy championship, there's a list somewhere^^

[mogote]

A new rumored card from MTGSalvation:

Mutavault
Land
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool.
1: Mutavault becomes a 2/2 creature with all creature types until end of turn. It's still a land.

This might have some applications for Legacy. It's like Mishra's Factory without the pump ability but profiting from creature type bonuses. At worst it's good when facing Counter Slivers.

[Nihil Credo]

[quote=mogote;192721]Mutavault
Land
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool.
1: Mutavault becomes a 2/2 creature with all creature types until end of turn. It's still a land.[quote]
Factory 5-8??!asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfa

It's worth noting that while it can't pump itself, it is an Assembly-Worker and can be pumped by other Factories.

Of course, it's inferior to regular Mishra's, but it's still not a card I would have expected Wizards to print nowadays (Blinkmoth Nexus was enough of a powerhouse in his day).

[LGD]

Yeah it does seem rather good but given that they've already reprinted the Urza's manlands I doubt a colorless and largely inferior version of the original factory is going to break the format wide open. Given the sorts of creatures stomping about Standard at the moment, and the manabases most decks are using it doesn't seem like it should be an issue. A very solid card that plays well with the current set's theme, is reminiscent of a popular old card while not being strictly better, and actually has decent synergy with the old one as well. If it's a true card then I quite like it, though I don't know how meaningful it'll be in legacy given that superior options already exist.

[AngryTroll]

Mutavault
Land
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool.
1: Mutavault becomes a 2/2 creature with all creature types until end of turn. It's still a land.

This might have some applications for Legacy. It's like Mishra's Factory without the pump ability but profiting from creature type bonuses. At worst it's good when facing Counter Slivers.

Shoot, if it fit the manabase, it would be quite good in Counter Slivers. Unfortunatlely, for a deck running a Thresh-like land count with three colors, a land that taps for colorless is probably not going to make it without some revisions to the deck. At least an overhaul of the land, maybe the cantrips. But with 4 Vial and 3 Divining Top, perhaps it could be run.

[Jaynel]

Crystalline + Mutavault = Wasteland Proof

[Nihil Credo]

A few more cards are in. There's a thoroughly unimpressing Coat of Arms variant, a dull evoker, a Goblin version of Marrow-Gnawer, and two interesting cards.

The first is a cool Fireball variant, and the most playable Clash spell I've seen:

Titan's Revenge http://mtgsalvation.com/images/image.png (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62865&d=1199164092)

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manax.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif Sorceryhttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-rare.gifTitan's Revenge deals X damage to target creature or player. Clash with an opponent. If you win, return Titan's Revenge to its owner's hand.Illus. Christopher Moeller


With Sensei's Divining Top and the expensive spells it would be presumably run alongside with, it could be very easy to win clashes. The bigger question, IMO, is "What decks want a Fireball with 'Buyback - Win a clash'?"

The second one is a potentially interesting Goblin silver bullet:

Earwig Squad

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif Creature - Goblin Roguehttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-rare.gifProwl http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gifhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manab.gif
When Earwig Squad comes into play, if it's prowl cost was paid, search target opponent's library for 3 cards and remove them from the game.Then that player shuffles his or her library.

5/3
It's pretty narrow, but 2B for a Jester's Cap doesn't look too bad in Goblins - well, ok, it's mediocre, but not when it comes with a 5/3 attached. Prowling should be very easy to achieve, if necessary with a Mogg Fanatic.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Four new ones (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=99919), albeit as yet unconfirmed. The three rares all look quite decent--but there has to be a way to break Maralen.

[Cire]

Marleen + Aven mindcensor.... they can only search the top 4 cards and you have access to your whole deck...

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Marleen + Aven mindcensor.... they can only search the top 4 cards and you have access to your whole deck...

Kinda clunky though. :tongue:

[Aggro_zombies]

Four new ones (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=99919), albeit as yet unconfirmed. The three rares all look quite decent--but there has to be a way to break Maralen.
Maralen feels like Dark Confidant, except infinitely worse because it's symmetrical and can't be rigged in your favor.

[etrigan]

Maralen might have combo potential. If everyone has access to their best cards, Duress is cheaper than Counterspell, and Orim's Chant is cheaper than Force of Will, so you should end up ahead.

Or it might suck. We'll see.

[Pinder]

Maralen feels like Dark Confidant, except infinitely worse because it's symmetrical and can't be rigged in your favor.

Agreed. Free pseudo-vamp for your opponent = not so great, IMO

[AngryTroll]

Agreed. Free pseudo-vamp for your opponent = not so great, IMO

Plus, it works for them first. Won't they always find Sword to Plowshares, at best? You'll be lucky if they find that and not Wrath, Damnation, Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed, or another major source of card advantage. And good luck if they are already holding Swords!

It does look really cool, though. I'd love to see a use for it.

[Phantom]

I like the synergy Unstoppable Ash has with Doran. Not Legacy worthy sadly thanks to that whole crappy champion mechanic, but seems kind of fun.

[rufus]

Maralen's tutor effect is a triggered ability. That gives it positive interaction with Stifle/Trickbind, as well as reactive counters.

Resource denial decks like pox, prison, or something like death and taxes can probably do well with Maralen as well.

[Wallace]

Ok who, what, why, and how!?!?!?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62925&d=1199250318

[edgewalker]

It's really not that good, because they're going to vamp up creature kill first thing and get rid of it. So it's really just a Lava Spike for 1BB.

[APriestOfGix]

It's Grim Tutor not Vap. Pinder...

[Lemuria]

That guy looks reeeeaaaaly interesting, but also dangerous. Basically, you shut down Brainstorm and Cantrips Company, Standstill, Draw 4 Combos (of course, if they don't go off in your face first) and also he is a clock, sometimes, 5 a turn (why not?).

Anyway, I realy like it and I'm hopping that some smart and intelligent guy from The Source will find a way to abuse him.:cool:

[freakish777]

Play her and then follow up with Fatigue (and then chain into more Fatigues)!

(yeah it's not really good, in any format)


EDIT: The new Mishra's Factory looks excellent for Extended. UW Landstill anyone?

[Arsenal]

@Rufus

If you're wasting Trickbind/Stifle on her, why not just play Stifle+Dreadnaught and WIN? I do not understand this logic or how this particular play would be better than Stifle+Dreadnaught.

@Everyone

Maralen looks janky. Seeing how every deck in Legacy is running spot removal (mostly for Goyf), I don't see how this will live long enough for you to do whatever you wanted to do with it. Danger of Cool Things I suppose...

[Waikiki]

Counterbalance protection? you got alot of shuffle effects with her in play ;) also it just looks awesome to me.

[scrumdogg]

Deleted by request of teammate

[Nihil Credo]

Maralen and Mindcensor will be legal in Standard together for a while (Trickbind too, but that's unlikely to matter). I can see it working out in that format, but that's it. The combo is fragile and doesn't even come close to winning the game.

[Lemuria]

I don't see Maralen as a combo piece, but as a disruption piece that stops your opponents to go draw insane. Also, a Grim Tutor every turn couldn't be that bad.

[Finn]

:tongue: Psychogenic Probe

[quicksilver]

Maralen is an aweful card. Say for instance you can abuse it and your opponent can't, well they just use the tutor effect to get a creature removal spell and kill it, and you never even get a single use out of it. And this doesn't even depend on having to draw the removal! If this guy doesn't just make your opponent win on their turn, then all he's gonna do is let your opponent tutor for removal to get rid of it. It's an aweful card and at best will lava spike your opponent for 3 mana.

[Lemuria]

Course your opponent can tutor the removal, but you also may hold a protection or a couter for him, and just keep tutoring the protections you need. Say if you run him in a deck with discards and/or counters, it might be of some use.

It's just to early to say anything. I saw many guys who didn't like Goyf at first instance and look what he has done to the format.

[Phantom]

The best thing I can think of is to Vial her in so you get first dibs. Still seems weak.

[Elfrago]

Aven Mindcensor + Maralen... not worth it in legacy, maybe almost playable in vintage.

[Finn]

I saw many fools who didn't like Goyf at first instance and look what he has done to the format.I think most of the folks who pay attention to Legacy on this site were pretty quickly aware of this card. In one of my articles, Bardo said he was adding Tarmo into all his Threshold decks before it was even legal. I think it was before the set was even released. I know that I traded just a few junk rares for my playset. Also, I remember my discussion thread for Life from the Loam with stuff like Devastating Dreams, cycle lands, Seismic Assault, etc was up and being discussed when the card was unknown elsewhere. It took something like a year for a similar version of the deck to make its way to Extended. Same story with Flash and to a lesser degree Jotun Grunt. Unless there is a glaringly obvious use/abuse for a new card (where everyone can see it), I expect us to find it first.

So I am confident that if there is a Legacy-worthy use for this chick, this is going to be the place to discuss it.

[Lukas Preuss]

Maralen + Beacon of Tomorrows is a bad combo, in case anybody is interested (and in case nobody has mentioned it yet), but it is clearly not Legacy-worthy.

[Arsenal]

Course your opponent can tutor the removal, but you also may hold a protection or a couter for him, and just keep tutoring the protections you need.

If you're holding a counter, then it's just as likely your opponent is already holding his removal spell, and then if that gets countered, he'll tutor for one via Maralen. I do not see how this card is good. I can see how she can do some cutesy type stuff, and definitely how she falls into the "Danger of Cool Things" catagory...

[Nightmare]

You guys are aware that you lose three life every time you use this chick, right? That's your own 6 turn clock, and you aren't guaranteed to be facing zero resistance, either. Still interesting, though.

[Maëlig]

It's actually quite fun with karakas and vial. Could it see an appearance in D&T splash B?

[Cire]

how about you play her with mother of runes out that way they need at least 2 removal spells (6 life by then) and then you keep searching for benevolent body guards to keep her alive and if your behind on life just search for some big ass life gain spell. and try to do this all with some removal, discard counterspells and draw power and you go yourself a deck. lol

[rufus]

If you're wasting Trickbind/Stifle on her, why not just play Stifle+Dreadnaught and WIN? I do not understand this logic or how this particular play would be better than Stifle+Dreadnaught.


Against quite a number of decks, Maralen + Stifle or (Maralen + Counter) is effectively a wining combination as well, even if it is a bit slower - Maralen as a clock backed by hard counters (which it fetches) seems like it should be a legitimate win condition.

Maralen is a must-respond card for many decks that can ignore the dreadnought. (Naturally, other decks fear the Dreadnought more.)
Maralen can work quite well with prison and hard counters as well as stifle/trickbind.
Maralen is not a dreadnought. That means that a deck can run both of them.
Maralen can be brought into play without other combo pieces. As a consequence, it can be used to buy time in a pinch.

[Arsenal]

Against quite a number of decks, Maralen + Stifle or (Maralen + Counter) is effectively a wining combination as well, even if it is a bit slower - Maralen as a clock backed by hard counters (which it fetches) seems like it should be a legitimate win condition.

Maralen is a must-respond card for many decks that can ignore the dreadnought. (Naturally, other decks fear the Dreadnought more.)
Maralen can work quite well with prison and hard counters as well as stifle/trickbind.
Maralen is not a dreadnought. That means that a deck can run both of them.
Maralen can be brought into play without other combo pieces. As a consequence, it can be used to buy time in a pinch.

Please list all these decks that Maralen + Stifle would win against that Dreadnaught + Stifle would not. Also, please list all these decks that can completely ignore a resolved 12/12 trampler.

Also, Dreadnaught owns in combat, Maralen does not. If you think you're going to have a clear field for Maralen to swing through + have answers for opponent's removal, then again, why not just win with Dreadnaught + Stifle instead of Maralen + Stifle?

[Nihil Credo]

Exactly what decks can ignore Dreadnought but cannot ignore Maralen? It sure doesn't race combo any faster.

[Adan]

It's actually quite fun with karakas and vial. Could it see an appearance in D&T splash B?

Karakas and Vial? That's a stupid 3card combo since your opponent is allowed to Grim tutor for *insert randomcard that wrecks the combo*.
But I can imagine that this card is a hell of fun with Aven Mindcensor. But the fact that it shuts off Cantrips and stuff... could be a new kind of Chains of Mephisto.


Exactly what decks can ignore Dreadnought but cannot ignore Maralen? It sure doesn't race combo any faster.

Who suggested that? Maralen against Combo??? Haha, I rofl'd. I think I would be happy to get free Grim Tutors when playing combo. Also notice that the opponent can fetch solutions himself, disrupting your softlock. A very soft softlock. Bla, Dreadnought-Stifle is more effective. It's vulnerable against Repeal and Engineered Explosives, but it's way more effective.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Or Maralen + Mother of Runes + Lightning Helix. Six damage a turn isn't too bad.

Does anyone else find Indomitable Ancients somewhat humorous?

[b4r0n]

With all the debate surrounding Maralen, nobody has mentioned these yet:

Frogtosser Bannaret 1B
Creature - Goblin Rogue (C)
Haste
Goblin and Rogue Spells you play cost 1 less to play.
1/1
64/150

Stonybrook Bannaret 1U
Creature - Merfolk Wizard (C)
Islandwalk
Merfolk spells and Wizard spells you play cost 1 less to play.
1/1
51/150

Merfolk AND Wizards finally get "warchiefs", and Goblins get yet another cost reducer. Thoughts?

[Arsenal]

These are actually much closer to Invasion block "familiars". Do the Invasion familiars see play in Legacy? Also, aside from Goblins, MeatHooks, and Faerie Stompy, what other decks really focus on creature-types?

[Jaynel]

Do Merfolk Wizards cost 2 less?

Edit: No, they don't. Still broken in MerfolkandDarkConfidant.dec though.

[mujadaddy]

Do Merfolk Wizards cost 2 less?

:rolleyes:

[Tacosnape]

Somebody please tell me that Indomitable Ancients is not actually quoting Rick Astley.

And that's kind of silly with Doran.

[Nihil Credo]

I foresee many, many screams of "Rickrolled!" during LLM drafts. Maybe not that many, 'cause it's a rare, but still.

And the Goblin Familiar deserves massive testing. Sure, I'd say Warchief was 60% Haste and 40% cost reduction, and also had better stats, but haven't Goblins been waiting years for a good two-drop? Turn 2 Familiar, turn 3 Ringleader is hawt.

[RC Snakle]

Maralen looks more interesting for shutting off drawing than the tutoring, but seeing that Chains of Mephistocles sees zero play, a worse one ain't about to crack the format open.


Somebody please tell me that Indomitable Ancients is not actually quoting Rick Astley.

And that's kind of silly with Doran.

MTGS will sometimes put in silly flavor text as placeholders; for Lorwyn they had Chocolate Rain lyrics in place of Goldmeadow Harrier's actual flavor text.

[Tacosnape]

Maralen is also very humorous with Shadow of Doubt. Because not only do they not get to search, you don't get to draw the card!

[spirit of the wretch]

Karakas and Vial? That's a stupid 3card combo since your opponent is allowed to Grim tutor for *insert randomcard that wrecks the combo*.

Huh?
EOT vial in Maralen, draw a card bounce Malaren...
See the combo? =)

This card seems like rubbish except for the combination with the Aven.

Oooooor of course you could put a Shadow of Doubt in a Scepter and laugh your ass off...

Edit: Damn, Taco beat me

[Nihil Credo]

If Maralen triggered at the beginning of each player's upkeep, Maralen+Karakas+Vial would be a hard lock with a free optional Grim Tutor every turn for you, in addition to your regular draw. Alas, 'twas not to be.

[Pinder]

If Maralen triggered at the beginning of each player's upkeep, Maralen+Karakas+Vial would be a hard lock with a free optional Grim Tutor every turn for you, in addition to your regular draw. Alas, 'twas not to be.

You realize the abillity isn't optional, right? I mean, that might be a plus, because it's 3 damage a turn to your opponent that they really can't do much about....except use their free tutor for removal, or life gain, or........

[Nihil Credo]

The combo would make it optional: you could choose whether to bounce it on your opponent's end step (you don't get the tutor) or during your own upkeep (you get the tutor).

[etrigan]

Negate 1U
Instant
Counter target noncreature spell.

This really interests me. We're approaching critical mass for 1U hard counters. Could potentially make WW/u or mono-G Stompy/u viable. I like.

[Tacosnape]

Negate 1U
Instant
Counter target noncreature spell.

This really interests me. We're approaching critical mass for 1U hard counters. Could potentially make WW/u or mono-G Stompy/u viable. I like.

Meh. Negate is weak.

Blue's biggest weakness is being able to get rid of threats. Negate doesn't do this, whereas better counters do. Thoughtseize is regarded as being better than Duress largely due to its ability to shore up Black's difficulty in removing creatures from the board. Negate is completely the opposite. Moving from a broad counter to Negate would be like moving from Thoughtseize back to Duress.

Besides, the only decks in existence that want to keep two mana open to pay for countermagic are control decks, and these tend to run options like, you know, Counterspell. There's very little place for a :1::u: counter in Legacy.

[Wallace]

Meh. Negate is weak.

Blue's biggest weakness is being able to get rid of threats. Negate doesn't do this, whereas better counters do. Thoughtseize is regarded as being better than Duress largely due to its ability to shore up Black's difficulty in removing creatures from the board. Negate is completely the opposite. Moving from a broad counter to Negate would be like moving from Thoughtseize back to Duress.

Besides, the only decks in existence that want to keep two mana open to pay for countermagic are control decks, and these tend to run options like, you know, Counterspell. There's very little place for a :1::u: counter in Legacy.

Plus if I was going to run a :1::u: counter it would most likly be Remand or Arcane Denial. Denial isn't that good but it's clearly better than Negate.

[etrigan]

I'm not saying it's amazing. But I think it's a solid addition to any aggro control deck unable to run Force of Will. It stops Deed, Wrath, and lots of relevant stuff, and is better vs. combo than Remand or Memory Lapse.

Again, not amazing. Solid. In the right deck.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I'm not saying it's amazing. But I think it's a solid addition to any aggro control deck unable to run Force of Will. It stops Deed, Wrath, and lots of relevant stuff, and is better vs. combo than Remand or Memory Lapse.Except for Mana Leak, Rune Snag, and maybe Delay. Those are all better for one blue.

[Nihil Credo]

Thoughtseize is regarded as being better than Duress largely due to its ability to shore up Black's difficulty in removing creatures from the board.
:confused:

[Versus]

Is, UU: Counter target spell really that fucking "broken"? I mean just reprint the damn thing the way it had been for every expansion since Alpha and let Standard players counter a spell the way it was meant to be countered and stop dicking around already. Counter creature, counter non-creature, counter target green spell, pay :2:, counter target spell that costs two.... I expect to see "Counter target Lhurgoyf" any time now.

[Bovinious]

Is, UU: Counter target spell really that fucking "broken"? I mean just reprint the damn thing the way it had been for every expansion since Alpha and let Standard players counter a spell the way it was meant to be countered and stop dicking around already. Counter creature, counter non-creature, counter target green spell, pay :2:, counter target spell that costs two.... I expect to see "Counter target Lhurgoyf" any time now.

I agree, but apparently WOTC doesnt since they reprinted Cancel, Counter Target Spell at 1UU, because I guess UU was too good to them or something...

[freakish777]

Is, UU: Counter target spell really that fucking "broken"? I mean just reprint the damn thing the way it had been for every expansion since Alpha and let Standard players counter a spell the way it was meant to be countered and stop dicking around already. Counter creature, counter non-creature, counter target green spell, pay :2:, counter target spell that costs two.... I expect to see "Counter target Lhurgoyf" any time now.

In Standard, yes.

[Nihil Credo]

Is, UU: Counter target spell really that fucking "broken"?
Yes. It was everywhere in pre-8th Standard, as in "I'm playing blue, I need a really damn good reason not to run Counterspell". But not running Cancel is a perfectly balanced choice for lots of modern T2 blue decks.

[rufus]

Obviously, all of this stuff is angels on the head of a pin right now anyway. We'll have to see how things get shaken out.


Please list all these decks that Maralen + Stifle would win against that Dreadnaught + Stifle would not. Also, please list all these decks that can completely ignore a resolved 12/12 trampler.

If it's in play, Maralen shuts down draw based combo like Spanish Inquisition and Solidarity. Both of those don't care that much about a Dreadnought. Of course, those decks also really hate seeing stifle anyway, so Maralen probably isn't much of an improvement there anyway. Based on the WoTC, published lists, those probably aren't common match-ups.

[Arctic_Slicer]

Here's a good candidate for Mono Red Burn:

Shard Volley R

Instant Common
As an additional cost to play Shard Volley, sacrifice a land.
Shard Volley deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

"Let the mountain’s teeth pierce our oppressors"

It's an instant which is nice but the sacrifice a land probably makes it worse than Riftbolt, but could still find a place nonetheless.

[feuerizer]

Countryside Crusher :1: :r: :r:

Creature - Giant Warrior Rare

At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library.
If it’s a land card, put it into your graveyard and repeat this process.
Whenever a land card is put into your graveyard from anywhere, put a +1/+1 counter on Countryside Crusher.

3/3

Looks pretty interesting!
If you can combine the Crusher with Terravore you might have a nice deck.
There might be a problem with the double coloured costs, but who knows...

Additionally, the Crusher filters your deck. If your curve is low, you can get rid of the lands you don´t need anymore. Although your opponent knows what you draw, that´s a drawback.

[Lemuria]

Maybe you could run it in some kind of Lands deck and then Fling him FTW :cool:

[freakish777]

Countryside Crusher :1: :r: :r:

Creature - Giant Warrior Rare

At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library.
If it’s a land card, put it into your graveyard and repeat this process.
Whenever a land card is put into your graveyard from anywhere, put a +1/+1 counter on Countryside Crusher.

3/3

Looks pretty interesting!
If you can combine the Crusher with Terravore you might have a nice deck.
There might be a problem with the double coloured costs, but who knows...


More like the Crusherinator might replace Terravore in Aggro Loam...

[Nihil Credo]

Straight R/G Aggro Loam has never looked better.

25 lands
4 Mox Diamond

4 Terravore
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Wild Mongrel
2 Genesis

3 Life from the Loam
4 Burning Wish
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Seismic Assault
2 Engineered Explosives

[Wallace]

Shard Volley

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gifInstanthttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-common.gifAs an additional cost to play Shard Volley, sacrifice a land.
Shard Volley deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

OMG, this is now my new fav. card, yeah burn, yeah Goyf Sligh!

[TheCramp]

More like the Crusherinator might replace Terravore in Aggro Loam...

I doubt that. Countryside Crusher is the Queirian Dryad to Terravores Tarmogoyf. Terravore counts everything you and your opponent have allready done, and will do. Crusher only counts future events, and only yours, and there for is about 1/4th as good. So still pretty sick, but no Terravore. Its color gives it synergy with Wildfire, which might be interesting. I think that it is worth picking up and playing around with. Color me curious.

[Peter_Rotten]

But will the Sligh decks be able to support the land sacrifice for the new card and Fireblast? Look at the list of burn spells that this new spell must compete with:



Lighting Bolt: Instant 3 for :r:

Chain Lightning: Sorcery 3 for :r: (with a usually negligible drawback)

Fireblast: 4 for two Mountains

Magma Jet: 2 for :1::r: and draw quality

Price of Progress: Scaled damage for :1::r:

Rift Bolt: a delayed 3 for :r: (with the bonus of dodging Chalice/Trinisphere)



It could be standard viable, but I don't think I like it much for Legacy.

In a current Sligh build, on what turn would I want to cast this spell? Not turn 1. Not turn 2 (when I'd be playing my Goyf). I'd have to wait to turn 3 to cast it. (Rift Bolt can be cast earlier with no board disadvantage).

I also fail to see it as a necessary Goyf pump. Will my opponent or I not have a land in the yard by turn 3? Goyf-Sligh has had no problems getting lands into the yard.

It doesn't dodge the most hurtful cards to Sligh/Burn. Chalice for one - the most common setting against burn - shuts this card down. Trini pwns it as badly as it does Bolt and Chain. CoP shuts it down just like any red burn spell.

[Nightmare]

Rift Bolt doesn't dodge Trinisphere, ass.

Edit - I also fixed your tags. God you suck.

[Peter_Rotten]

Rift Bolt doesn't dodge Trinisphere, ass.

Edit - I also fixed your tags. God you suck.

Hmm... If I "hard cast" Rift Bolt, I'm sure it could do some Trini-dodging, no? And BTW, your ass will need to dodge my foot next time we meet.

[Nightmare]

Hmm... If I "hard cast" Rift Bolt, I'm sure it could do some Trini-dodging, no? And BTW, your ass will need to dodge my foot next time we meet.
Well, I guess my ass is safe. It's not like I'll ever see you at a tournament.


Thats right. I went there.

[Peter_Rotten]

You would if you went to Mass tournies. $10 entry fee = mucho ROAR!

[TheCramp]

[COLOR=black]But will the Sligh decks be able to support the land sacrifice for the new card and Fireblast?

Rotten is right, this new card is crap. But I was thinking about Countryside Crusher in Sligh. Once you drop Crusher, you never hit another land, only business. Like Magma Jet, but on-going, and with a much higher damage output. Plus there is a high risk/high reward synergy with Fire Blast. Critter pump + DD for free is interesting. Also he gets out of that 1 drop 2 drop Counter-top slump.

[Bryant Cook]

Can we stop the mutual masturbation here? Don't you guys have a mod forum for this?


Back on topic- I'm not even slightly impressed with this set yet. Does wizards print anything anymore that isn't attached with a [Creature - X]?

[Nightmare]

Can we stop the mutual masturbation here? Don't you guys have a mod forum for this?


Back on topic- I'm not even slightly impressed with this set yet. Does wizards print anything anymore that isn't attached with a [Creature - X]?

It's a tribal block. What do you expect?

[Bovinious]

Can we stop the mutual masturbation here? Don't you guys have a mod forum for this?


Back on topic- I'm not even slightly impressed with this set yet. Does wizards print anything anymore that isn't attached with a [Creature - X]?

Because Ponder and Thoughtseize werent good at all...

[Bryant Cook]

Because Ponder and Thoughtseize werent good at all...

My bad, I forgot updating old cards and making them slightly better counts as new cards. Still 2 good non-creature cards in a whole 301 card set, I'd juts like to see some more playable non-creature cards.

[Nightmare]

It's a tribal block. What do you expect?

[Bryant Cook]

Onslaught Block was tribal and still had good cards. See Storm. Touche'?

[Nightmare]

Onslaught Block was tribal and still had good cards. See Storm. Touche'?See: Legions.

[Bryant Cook]

See: Fetch Lands.


Edit: Legions was also one of the worst sets ever.

[Nihil Credo]

Crusher only counts future events, and only yours, and there for is about 1/4th as good.
But Crusher has an ability that lets it self-feed, unlike Dryad which requires you to do all the work.

Not to mention that the ability is pretty sick on its own, as it basically reads "You get perfect draws". Holy shit. Good thing Loam rotated out of Standard.

Without an ounce of testing, I'm betting on Crusher as a 4-of in Aggro Loam.

[Peter_Rotten]

Rotten is right, this new card is crap. But I was thinking about Countryside Crusher in Sligh. Once you drop Crusher, you never hit another land, only business. Like Magma Jet, but on-going, and with a much higher damage output. Plus there is a high risk/high reward synergy with Fire Blast. Critter pump + DD for free is interesting. Also he gets out of that 1 drop 2 drop Counter-top slump.

I'll at least give him the "interesting" nod; he is worth some testing. I'm concerned that he will give me a random screwing if I'm running nonbasics. For example, I'm at three lands - Mountain, Mountain, Taiga - with Crusher in play. The opponent wastes my Taiga and I flip Goyf. Sad panda. In short, we need to figure out if his drawback is mitigated by his benefit.

Also, he might be really bad against Stax decks (which may be irrelevant since Sligh has a horrible game against Stax anyway).

[nastynate]

I'll at least give him the "interesting" nod; he is worth some testing. I'm concerned that he will give me a random screwing if I'm running nonbasics. For example, I'm at three lands - Mountain, Mountain, Taiga - with Crusher in play. The opponent wastes my Taiga and I flip Goyf. Sad panda. In short, we need to figure out if his drawback is mitigated by his benefit.

Also, he might be really bad against Stax decks (which may be irrelevant since Sligh has a horrible game against Stax anyway).

What if you run the crushinator along side crucible of worlds? Throw all your top-decked land into the yard, play lands from the yard, draw pure juice from your library.

[Bryant Cook]

I don't think the new Bolt is too bad for burn, probably not good enough for GoyfSligh. As 2 or 3 of it could have potential. I mean Burn can often end games on 3-4 land, thats still 1 Fireblast and 1 ghetto bolt.

[Di]

Shard Volley

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gifInstanthttp://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/morningtide-common.gifAs an additional cost to play Shard Volley, sacrifice a land.
Shard Volley deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

OMG, this is now my new fav. card, yeah burn, yeah Goyf Sligh!

I find this incredibly odd as you constantly complain of getting land screwed. It seems quite ironic you'd like a card that can happen to stop you from casting Tarmogoyf/Fireblast/2cc card.

[Illissius]

I doubt that. Countryside Crusher is the Queirian Dryad to Terravores Tarmogoyf. Terravore counts everything you and your opponent have allready done, and will do. Crusher only counts future events, and only yours, and there for is about 1/4th as good.

On the other hand, he gets a free 3/3 to start off, and keeps growing while you recur Wastes and Fetches, while Vore stays constant. And as mentioned, he provides his own fuel. Goyf : Dryad :: Vore : Vinelasher Kudzu. This guy is a lot better. (A three mana 3/3 is also a hell of a lot better than a two mana 1/1. Since when does red get 3/3s for three with powerful abilities? Not that I mind.)

[thebadmagicplayer]

43 lands+Crusher=FTW

[Wallace]

I find this incredibly odd as you constantly complain of getting land screwed. It seems quite ironic you'd like a card that can happen to stop you from casting Tarmogoyf/Fireblast/2cc card.

Actually it's the exact opposite with Burn/Goyf Sligh, I draw way to much land, most of the time. I have been running 16-17 land w/6-8 fetch’s and consistently draw 4+ land. I am looking for a way to either draw less land, or capitalize on the flood of :r:. I am going to test this new bolt and see what happens, I will keep everyone posted.

[TheCramp]

On the other hand, he gets a free 3/3 to start off, and keeps growing while you recur Wastes and Fetches, while Vore stays constant. And as mentioned, he provides his own fuel. Goyf : Dryad :: Vore : Vinelasher Kudzu. This guy is a lot better. (A three mana 3/3 is also a hell of a lot better than a two mana 1/1. Since when does red get 3/3s for three with powerful abilities? Not that I mind.)

Yeah, all this is true. I think he is playable. I'm going to pick up a playset for sure. First thing. I play aggro-loam, and I see a place for him for sure. I have two swing slots in my build that are currently occupied by Vinelasher Kudzu, and I think that is where I will start. Terravore is just such an house when you resolve a devastating dreams. But that doesn't always happen. Threat density wins games, so I'm happy to have both in the tool box.

[Freshrock]

Terravore has trample, while this other guy doesn't. Will that affect playability at all considering that the format is "over run with big phat goyfs"? He still seems good, and he will be able to combat goyfs fine because he starts off as a 3/3. But seems like power level would be lower because he can be chumped easily where terravore really can't.

[Atwa]

"Mutavault" looks cool.

Mutavault

Land Rare
{T}: Add 1 to your mana pool.
1: Mutavault becomes a 2/2 creature with all creature types until end of turn. It's still a land.

It could function as Mishra's Factory 5-8. One that doesn't get killed by Krosan Grip (don't ask, that has won me games).

Too bad it can't pump, but I think it can be stronger than Blinkmoth Nexus.

[Bardo]

It's a cool card, but the ability of Factory to activate, be declared as a blocker and then tap itself for +1/+1 makes Factory much, much better.

[Lemuria]

Yeah, all this is true. I think he is playable. I'm going to pick up a playset for sure. First thing. I play aggro-loam, and I see a place for him for sure. I have two swing slots in my build that are currently occupied by Vinelasher Kudzu, and I think that is where I will start. Terravore is just such an house when you resolve a devastating dreams. But that doesn't always happen. Threat density wins games, so I'm happy to have both in the tool box.

I don't think he is just "playable". I think he is a freaking bomb "plowshares me now or die". Consider this situation:

You have him in play. At your opponent EOT you cycling 2 lands (+2+2)
In your upkeep he drops one land in your gravyard (+1+1).

Then you use loam to recurr 3 lands, cycle 2 more (+2+2)
Or you can Devastating Dreams for, let's say, 3. (sac 3 lands, discard, hmm, one more, +4+4)

Swing for, at least, 10/10.

I'm talking in really small proportions. In a Loam deck, he could easily drop 3 lands on upkeep, and you can abuse Loam/DD even more, so the base numbers here are low. He won't have any blockers on his way, because, well, this is an Aggro Loam. You have many ways do remove creatures from the board.

In other words. He is just retarded IMO.

[Nightmare]

The interesting thing is, if you don't Devastating Dreams for more than the land you have in play, you can never kill him with it.

[TheCramp]

The interesting thing is, if you don't Devastating Dreams for more than the land you have in play, you can never kill him with it.

In fact you can Devastating Dreams for more that what with his minimum 3 toughness. Life from the loam, having had a few years to think about this now, is my favorite card in the game, so yes I will be getting this critter into decks in short order to play test.

What I dig about his ability is that when your dredging with thicket, top-decking more land on your draw is obnoxious. He fixes that. Fancy little tricks like that make me like playing magic.

[TheCramp]

Also,

Bitterblossom :1::b:
Tribal Enchantment - Faerie Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, lose 1 life and put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue creature token with flying into play.


This has to have some application. Black Stax? Braids? Not sure where or what, but it is cool. Clever little card.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I don't think he is just "playable". I think he is a freaking bomb "plowshares me now or die". Consider this situation:

You have him in play. At your opponent EOT you cycling 2 lands (+2+2)
In your upkeep he drops one land in your gravyard (+1+1).

Then you use loam to recurr 3 lands, cycle 2 more (+2+2)
Or you can Devastating Dreams for, let's say, 3. (sac 3 lands, discard, hmm, one more, +4+4)

Swing for, at least, 10/10.

I'm talking in really small proportions. In a Loam deck, he could easily drop 3 lands on upkeep, and you can abuse Loam/DD even more, so the base numbers here are low. He won't have any blockers on his way, because, well, this is an Aggro Loam. You have many ways do remove creatures from the board.

In other words. He is just retarded IMO.


Don't forget if you dredge, say, 2 lands to get back Life from the Loam(+2/+2).

[Pinder]

Anyone seen this guy?

Frogtosser Banneret :1::b:
Creature - Goblin Rogue
Haste
Goblin spells and Rogue Spells you play cost :1: less to play.
1/1

Think he could be any good in Black splash Gobs? I suppose he's not as good as Warchief, but he does have built-in haste and makes everything cheaper.

[Aggro_zombies]

Decent two-drop, but what do you take out for him?

[Di]

Just so it's known, I already call dibs on discovering Crusher + Scouting Trek combo. That'd be silly.

[Mental]

Just so it's known, I already call dibs on discovering Crusher + Scouting Trek combo. That'd be silly.

Yet awful, as Scouting Trek does nothing on its own.

Edit: Also, if they STP your crusher in response to your Scouting Trek, you just fucked yourself.

[Barook]

Also,

Bitterblossom :1::b:
Tribal Enchantment - Faerie Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, lose 1 life and put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue creature token with flying into play.


This has to have some application. Black Stax? Braids? Not sure where or what, but it is cool. Clever little card.

I like this card. Should be pretty nifty with stuff like Cabal Therapy, Jitte or Bad Moon.

[rufus]

Crusher could be nifty in some sort of fluctuator deck as well, althought he RR in the casting cost isn't so great there.

[freakish777]

The interesting thing is, if you don't Devastating Dreams for more than the land you have in play, you can never kill him with it.

Unfortunately I think this is incorrect. Vore's P/T is static based on lands in graveyards, making playing him out as something small and then playing Dreams means you're basically unable to kill him with Dreams. Crusher on the other hand has a trigger ability putting +1/+1 counters on him. If it's turn 5, and you play Crusher and follow up with Dreams for 3, upon resolution of Dreams, your Crusher will be a 3/3 with 3 damage on it, and some +1/+1 counter triggers on the stack...

[Jak]

Discarding is part of the cost. You discard the land cards, he gets bigger, than the damage goes on the stack and later resolves. The card is a beats and might make RGx loam a strong contender.

[Bardo]

I think most of the folks who pay attention to Legacy on this site were pretty quickly aware of this card. In one of my articles, Bardo said he was adding Tarmo into all his Threshold decks before it was even legal.

Somewhat off-topic, I was busting a nut over Tarmogoyf (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32225.60) (post #66) nearly a month before the FS release.

Goyf just fits into more decks with less effort than Countryside Crusher, but I can see that card being unreal with not too much effort, though it's not as imminently splashable for the obvious reasons.

[georgjorge]

Also,

Bitterblossom
Tribal Enchantment - Faerie Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, lose 1 life and put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue creature token with flying into play.


This has to have some application. Black Stax? Braids? Not sure where or what, but it is cool. Clever little card.

Yes, that one is probably going to see play in Legacy, as it is even decent on its own: You can lose one life instead of many with chumping Goyf every turn WHILE also racing for one or two in the air (depending on how many turns this sticks before you start chumping). Maybe even something to stick into more aggressive Bx beatdown decks as a slower but continous clock ? I think there are decks out there which would have some problems against Ritual, Duress, Bitterblossom since they would have a hard time racing it, or have to spend quite some ressources to get rid of it (Threshold / Landstill / Homebrew for example).

So, I'm counting 4 Legacy-worthy cards so far:

The 3cc land-eating Countryside Crusher
The 3cc counter-collecting Taurean Mauler
The 2cc Goblin-Familiar Frogtosser Banneret
The 2cc token-producing Bitterblossom.

Maybe also the extracting Earwig Squad that can be Prowled in for 3cc, but I'm not sure about that.

[TheCramp]

Unfortunately I think this is incorrect. Vore's P/T is static based on lands in graveyards, making playing him out as something small and then playing Dreams means you're basically unable to kill him with Dreams. Crusher on the other hand has a trigger ability putting +1/+1 counters on him. If it's turn 5, and you play Crusher and follow up with Dreams for 3, upon resolution of Dreams, your Crusher will be a 3/3 with 3 damage on it, and some +1/+1 counter triggers on the stack...

As with goyf and lightning bolt, the card resolves, and damage goes on the stack. (which is why goyf gets pumped by lightning bolt before damage, but not by ghastly demise which has no subsequent trigger) DD destroys the lands and deals the damage at the same time. The +1/+1 trigger and the subsequent damage stack are both abilities you control, so you stack them however you want. I'm 92% certain I'm right about that. (and any lands you discard as part of the cost obviously pump the crusher prior to damage.)

So, synergy?

Yup.

[quicksilver]

As with goyf and lightning bolt, the card resolves, and damage goes on the stack. (which is why goyf gets pumped by lightning bolt before damage, but not by ghastly demise which has no subsequent trigger) DD destroys the lands and deals the damage at the same time. The +1/+1 trigger and the subsequent damage stack are both abilities you control, so you stack them however you want. I'm 92% certain I'm right about that. (and any lands you discard as part of the cost obviously pump the crusher prior to damage.)

So, synergy?

Yup.

Freakish is correct. Land destroyed with Devestating Dreams do NOT help crusher survive. Lands discarded do.

Devestating dreams resolves dealing damage to the Crusher, the +1/+1 triggers go on the stack. State based effects check for lethal damage, if lethal damage the crusher dies. A player recieves priority. Then once both player pass the +1/+1 counter triggers attempt to resolve.

The part you have most wrong there is the fact that the damage of devestating dreams is not a triggered ability, nor is checking for lethal damage. Lethal damage is checked as a state based effect, which happens before triggered abilities resovle, always.


So if you have a 3/3 crusher, and devestating drams for 3 with three land out, and discard no land. Then the crusher will die. I am 99.999999999999% certain about this. But if you discard one land in that senario, then crusher lives and becomes a 7/7.

So, synergy?
A good amount, but not perfect.

[Nightmare]

Yeah, you guys are correct. For some reason I forgot that SBE's are checked between each of the triggered abilities.

[Lego]

As with goyf and lightning bolt, the card resolves, and damage goes on the stack. (which is why goyf gets pumped by lightning bolt before damage, but not by ghastly demise which has no subsequent trigger) DD destroys the lands and deals the damage at the same time. The +1/+1 trigger and the subsequent damage stack are both abilities you control, so you stack them however you want. I'm 92% certain I'm right about that. (and any lands you discard as part of the cost obviously pump the crusher prior to damage.)

You misunderstand how non-combat damage works. Combat damage goes on the stack and resolves the way you explain here. Damage from spells, however, is never put on the stack as a separate object. When you cast Lightning Bolt targeting Tarmogoyf (say he's a 2/3 with Land, Sorcery in the graveyard,) Lightning Bolt does 3 damage to Tarmogoyf and is placed in the graveyard as part of the resolution of the spell. After Bolt is finished resolving, state based effects are checked, and Tarmogoyf is a 3/4 with 3 damage on him.

Tarmogoyf and Ghastly Demise interact slightly differently, because Ghastly Demise is a destroy effect, not a damage effect. Tarmogoyf is destroyed as part of the resolution of Ghastly Demise's effect. If he is pumped before Ghastly Demise resolves, bringing his toughness above the number of cards in your graveyard, then Ghastly Demise will no longer have a legal target upon resolution, and it will be countered. There are no strange timing effects with how this one works.

Quicksilver explained how it works with Crusher and Devastating Dreams. You cast DD, and discard X cards as part of the cost. If you discard any land cards in this way, the Crusher will trigger and those triggers will be placed on the stack after you have finished paying for DD. They will resolve before Devastating Dreams, so Crusher will get bigger. Then DD will resolve, dealing damage to Crusher and causing some number of additional triggers to be placed on the stack from the sacrifice of lands. State based effects will check before any player gains priority, and if the Crusher has lethal damage, he will die.

[Nihil Credo]

So, to recap, it's impossible to kill Crusher via a Devastating Dreams of any size. It will always gain X +1/+1 counters before being dealt X damage.

On to another card that looks like it has some potential:

Obsidian Battle-Axe :3:
Tribal Artifact - Warrior Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+1 and has haste.
Whenever a Warrior creature comes into play, you may attach Obsidian Battle-Axe to it.
Equip http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gif

The card is inferior to the two Swords if you can't get the tribal synergy, but I've noticed that there are several good Warrior creatures, especially Elves: Wren's Run Vanquisher, Radha Heir to Keld, Eladamri himself (note that Battle-Axe doesn't target), Wren's Run Packmaster, Korlash Heir to Blackblade, Brion Stoutarm, Gathan Raiders (unmorphed only, sadly).

I think it's too early for the Battle-Axe to see Legacy play, but as new sets get printed (and more Warrior creatures) it may not take much before a viable deck comes out of this.

[quicksilver]

So, to recap, it's impossible to kill Crusher via a Devastating Dreams of any size. It will always gain X +1/+1 counters before being dealt X damage.

Umm, no we just finished stating that you can kill it with devestating dreams.

It will always gain X +1/+1 counters (from lands leaving play) after being dealt X damage.

[Nihil Credo]

Sorry, I was assuming that you'd only discard land cards to pay for DD's cost; obviously that is not always the case.

Still, it survives as long as you discard less than three non-land cards, and that's without counting any pumping he got during your previous upkeeps. I'd say those are pretty good odds.

[dahcmai]

So, to recap, it's impossible to kill Crusher via a Devastating Dreams of any size. It will always gain X +1/+1 counters before being dealt X damage.

On to another card that looks like it has some potential:

Obsidian Battle-Axe :3:
Tribal Artifact - Warrior Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+1 and has haste.
Whenever a Warrior creature comes into play, you may attach Obsidian Battle-Axe to it.
Equip http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana2.gif

The card is inferior to the two Swords if you can't get the tribal synergy, but I've noticed that there are several good Warrior creatures, especially Elves: Wren's Run Vanquisher, Radha Heir to Keld, Eladamri himself (note that Battle-Axe doesn't target), Wren's Run Packmaster, Korlash Heir to Blackblade, Brion Stoutarm, Gathan Raiders (unmorphed only, sadly).

I think it's too early for the Battle-Axe to see Legacy play, but as new sets get printed (and more Warrior creatures) it may not take much before a viable deck comes out of this.


Oddly enough that new Mishra's factory (Mutavault) is a Warrior due to it's Changeling staus. So I guess if you have a use for that axe on other things, you have a good creature already playable in lagacy for it.

[quicksilver]

Oddly enough that new Mishra's factory (Mutavault) is a Warrior due to it's Changeling staus. So I guess if you have a use for that axe on other things, you have a good creature already playable in lagacy for it.

Three mana for an equipment that gives +2/+1 and haste. That's it? Seems underpowered in legacy for 3 mana. Even if it's equip cost was zero, I still don't think it would be legacy playable. As it is it really doesn't even do anything till turn 4, jitte can come online turn 3 and has a way more powerful effect.

Also this card has no synergy whatsoever with mutavault since mutavault is not a warrior when it comes into play, and when it becomes a warrior it's already in play and won't trigger it.

[Daze]

Also,

Bitterblossom :1::b:
Tribal Enchantment - Faerie Rare
At the beginning of your upkeep, lose 1 life and put a 1/1 black Faerie Rogue creature token with flying into play.


This has to have some application. Black Stax? Braids? Not sure where or what, but it is cool. Clever little card.

The card I like most until now. "Swamp, Ritual, Ritual, Bitterblossom, Contamination, Go". And by itself, it provides constant Stream of creatures with evasion, takes out a Goyf and is an echantment (thus hard to remove).

[Wallace]

So is it just me or is Prowl just another word for kicker?

[mujadaddy]

So is it just me or is Prowl just another word for kicker?

Not really... It's much closer to Ninjitsu or Evoke.

[etrigan]

Everyone's just another word for Kicker.

But yeah, it's much closer to Ninjutsu (Ninjutsu swaps the creatures, Prowl just cheapens one.)

Also, Kicker might as well be in the basic set, they use it so often.

[Wallace]

Everyone's just another word for Kicker.

But yeah, it's much closer to Ninjutsu (Ninjutsu swaps the creatures, Prowl just cheapens one.)

Also, Kicker might as well be in the basic set, they use it so often.

Hah, NVM I read it wrong, thought it was in addition to the CC...Oops...:tongue:

[Bryant Cook]

Three mana for an equipment that gives +2/+1 and haste. That's it? Seems underpowered in legacy for 3 mana. Even if it's equip cost was zero, I still don't think it would be legacy playable. As it is it really doesn't even do anything till turn 4, jitte can come online turn 3 and has a way more powerful effect.

Also this card has no synergy whatsoever with mutavault since mutavault is not a warrior when it comes into play, and when it becomes a warrior it's already in play and won't trigger it.

I'm with you here, that equipment seems good for limited, possibly contructed. Definitely not Legacy.

[feuerizer]

Declaration of Naught :u: :u:

Enchantment
Rare
As Declaration of Naught comes into play, name a card.
:u:: Counter target spell with the same name as the chosen card.


What do you think?
Reminds me somehow of Meddling Mage. Well, you have to have mana open.
Is there a place for this card?
It can dodge creature removal Meddling Mage falls prey to and it can be used in monocoloured decks.

[Noman Peopled]

Seems kind of slow. After some thinking, I came to the conclusion that neither control nor aggro-control want it, though (too narrow for control, also too narrow to actually replace Counterbalance, Chalice, or a creature). As for now, I just don't see the point of a card that comes online turn three and is worse or at the very least more narrow than other options in the midgame. But that's only a broad generalization, it may well find a niche somewhere.
What really bugs me is the activation cost (though it's much better than a triggered ability when facing a storm spell) and susceptability to Needle. I'm really torn on this card, though.

I'm not so psyched about Bitterblossom. If only it had another drawback, it would be a fine addition to Pox. It certainly has merit but is nothing to get excited about, imo.

So we have new Warchiefs, eh? Frogtosser Banneret certanly seems the right ability and the right CC for Goblins. As was mentioned, the problem is what to cut. The color is kind of iffy, too. Eight Warchief effects also mean you can't really support eight colorless lands. One idea I've been working on is cutting one land and the Ports/Wastes, packing Cabal Slaver and Thoughtseize in the board (both strictly for testing purposes).
From what little I have learned is that I probably don't want four Frogtossers. Even if the second one should become useless (too many Warchiefs already out, avoiding to overextend, etc), it's still a Raging Goblin (very nice with Piledriver), but that's no reason to play so much accel as to lose sight of how much of it you can actually use (though in theory you could chain Ringleaders and Matrons, in practice it often works out differently).
In any case, this card will warrant heavy testing.

I'm actually quite surprised to see Taurean Mauler discussed here (though I shouldn't be). I thought it was interesting enough, but giving your opponent some control over your board presence seems bad; what do you do if you have a weaker position? Quirion Dryad isn't played (much) even in decks that have (nearly) full control of growing it.
Another thing that was already mentioned (though in the Vore/Cruher context if memory serves me right), is that the Mauler is a Grey Ogre initially (which I think is the reason why Quirion Dryad sees so little play over the much less busted but far more reliable Werebear).

I really like Mutavault, despite it being pretty much strictly worse then Factory. Does anybody else think there's a suspicious amount of manlands in the current/future Standard?
Apart from the pros and cons already mentioned (blocking, not pumping, tribal, possible use as Factory #5-), I'll just say that Mutavault is immune to artifact hate (which is a minor point, but still) and that the tribal synergies are actually fairly limited. It's hard to come up with a tribal deck that doesn't want Wastes/Ports instead (provided it can support even those). Even in Goblins, the synergies are not very exciting. There's Warchief's haste and SGC, but that's about it.
Come to think of it, I'm going to try Slivers without green. Maybe.


All of what I've said is of course absolutely objective and setting me right before I write my Legacy set review and make an ass out of myself wouldn't be appreciated at all ;)
So ... thoughts?

[etrigan]

Declaration of Naught

It's stopped by Abeyance. Nope.

[Pinder]

Declaration of Naught :u: :u:

Enchantment
Rare
As Declaration of Naught comes into play, name a card.
:u:: Counter target spell with the same name as the chosen card.


What do you think?
Reminds me somehow of Meddling Mage. Well, you have to have mana open.
Is there a place for this card?
It can dodge creature removal Meddling Mage falls prey to and it can be used in monocoloured decks.

Wow. If this card is spoiled correctly, I think it's the closest thing to Meddling Mage that MUC has. And as an enchantment it's harder to remove, too. I'll reserve judgement for the time being, though, because in most cases where you could run this thing you could probably be running Mage instead. Outside of the fairly narrow application in MUC, I'm not sure if this will get used much. Seems promising, though.

edit - Also, I echo the sentiment regarding the fact that it can be Abeyanced/Needled/Suppression Fielded, etc. etc.

[Nihil Credo]

I'm pretty sure it's not worth it. First, if you're naming a card that costs 2cc or less, you're better off with Counterbalance. Secondly, how many times are you realistically going to activate it? I'd say once or twice at best... but is it worth running a card that has so much potential to be dead just for a 2-for-1 or so (that costs you four mana overall, incidentally)? The exception would be recurring spells like Life from the Loam, but again, Counterbalance stops that one nicely.

[TrialByFire]

Murmuring Bosk (Rare)
Land - Forest

As Murmuring Bosk comes into play, you may reveal a Treefolk card from your hand. If you don't, Murmuring Bosk comes into play tapped.

Tap: Add B or W to your mana pool. Murmuring Bosk deals 1 damage to you.



Wow, potential to see a little play in Legacy, but I think Standard just found one of its new chase rares

Also, that blue enchantment, it has the potential to own storm copies. Maybe not in Legacy, but keeping 4 blue untapped for if they Dragonstorm or Grapeshot seems decent in Standard.

[Tacosnape]

Murmuring Bosk (Rare)
Land - Forest

As Murmuring Bosk comes into play, you may reveal a Treefolk card from your hand. If you don't, Murmuring Bosk comes into play tapped.

Tap: Add B or W to your mana pool. Murmuring Bosk deals 1 damage to you.

Wow, potential to see a little play in Legacy

My BGW Survival deck will be adding one of these almost immediately, I think.


Wow. If this card is spoiled correctly, I think it's the closest thing to Meddling Mage that MUC has. And as an enchantment it's harder to remove, too. I'll reserve judgement for the time being, though, because in most cases where you could run this thing you could probably be running Mage instead. Outside of the fairly narrow application in MUC, I'm not sure if this will get used much. Seems promising, though.

edit - Also, I echo the sentiment regarding the fact that it can be Abeyanced/Needled/Suppression Fielded, etc. etc.

MUC, or any deck that runs this, could just name Abeyance with it in matches where it matters, leaving your other six billion counterspells to deal with any problems that should arise.

[Pinder]

MUC, or any deck that runs this, could just name Abeyance with it in matches where it matters, leaving your other six billion counterspells to deal with any problems that should arise.

I guess, but it just seems tacky to name something like Abeyance just so they can't use it against your Declaration. I mean, in that case is it really any better than just running another counterspell for that Abeyance/Needle/Whatever? It would be good in matches where it didn't have to worry about Abeyance, sure, but naming Abeyance with Declaration because it hoses Declaration is pretty close to it hosing Declaration anyway. I suppose it would keep Abeyance from hosing all your other stuff, though.

And of course, you would probably have more than one, so maybe it'll be better than I think it will be. I wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised by this card.

[Jak]

I think it will definitely see play in SBs of heavy blue based decks like MUC. I think it would be really awesome with CB. It deserves testing.

[georgjorge]

The blue enchantment...true, almost always worse than Counterbalance, and I don't think many decks want more than four of these. A pity, since otherwise it would have been borderline playable. You could use it in matchups with high (>3) cc-cards though: Stax, MUC, Faerie/Dragon Stompy. Too slow against Stompy, but probably fine against Stax and MUC...may be worth it.

[Tacosnape]

I guess, but it just seems tacky to name something like Abeyance just so they can't use it against your Declaration. I mean, in that case is it really any better than just running another counterspell for that Abeyance/Needle/Whatever?

No, it wouldn't be any better per se other than the fact that it can counter -multiple- Abeyances and prevents them from baiting counters with them. I mostly meant the point as in, if you are running it, it has a use here. MUC can also name whatever combo piece is necessary and then just Snare Abeyance.

[Pinder]

No, it wouldn't be any better per se other than the fact that it can counter -multiple- Abeyances and prevents them from baiting counters with them. I mostly meant the point as in, if you are running it, it has a use here. MUC can also name whatever combo piece is necessary and then just Snare Abeyance.

I see what you were getting at, now. And actually, the more I think about it the more I feel like it would be a good board option to shore up combo in a certain NES-Titled CaNG entry....

[vanele]

Sensation Gorger
1rr
Creature – Goblin Shaman
Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with Sensation Gorger you may reveal it.
If you do, each player discards his or her hand and draws four cards.
2/2
“More. More. MORE!!”
Rare.

I haven't posted in a while, but none the less i think this just may have a home in legacy. o.o;;

[Jak]

Sensation Gorger
1rr
Creature – Goblin Shaman
Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with Sensation Gorger you may reveal it.
If you do, each player discards his or her hand and draws four cards.
2/2
“More. More. MORE!!”
Rare.

I haven't posted in a while, but none the less i think this just may have a home in legacy. o.o;;

I can't tell if this would be good or bad. You are drawing into awesomesauce in the late game, but you are also giving you opponents new cards. Testing will be done by people.

[Barook]

I can't tell if this would be good or bad. You are drawing into awesomesauce in the late game, but you are also giving you opponents new cards. Testing will be done by people.
Well, you can also generate card advantage by forcing opponents to discard hands with more than 4 cards, leaving behind potential answers and/or counters they kept.

[Jak]

Well, you can also generate card advantage by forcing opponents to discard hands with more than 4 cards, leaving behind potential answers and/or counters they kept.

That is true. I can just see it totally being amazing or just busting and getting the opponent their deed or something.

[Barook]

I also like the fact that it forces the opponent to empty his hand to get not too much card disadvantage. However, if you fail to reveal another Goblin, they just wasted cards on something not that relevant. Opponents' misplays ftw!

[Nihil Credo]

I also like the fact that it forces the opponent to empty his hand to get not too much card disadvantage. However, if you fail to reveal another Goblin, they just wasted cards on something not that relevant. Opponents' misplays ftw!
Yeah, but considering how tight most Goblin lists are, I prefer to run 'relevant stuff that draws removal' instead of 'possibly relevant stuff that draws removal' (The best obviously being 'relevant stuff that goes under the radar until it wins the game for you').

[Versus]

Murmuring Bosk (Rare)
Land - Forest

As Murmuring Bosk comes into play, you may reveal a Treefolk card from your hand. If you don't, Murmuring Bosk comes into play tapped.

Tap: Add B or W to your mana pool. Murmuring Bosk deals 1 damage to you.



Wow, potential to see a little play in Legacy, but I think Standard just found one of its new chase rares


Waitaminute, shouldn't this be something like; Tap: Add G to your mana pool. Tap: Add B or W Bosk deals 1 damage to you?

That would be amazing. Otherwise as far as standard is concerned it's just another Caves of Koilos that can be tutored up with a few cards. Yeah, it has some synergy with Treefolk Harbinger, but I dunno if it's worth it. I play a deck with 4 Doran and 4 Nameless Inversion, but no Harbingers and no reason to play this over Caves wich will never have to CIP tapped.

Legacy on the other hand can Fetch for it, but why not just get a Scrub instead?

[Peter_Rotten]

It looks like a standard card created to spoonfeed the T2ers Doran.dec.

[on1y0ne]

Waitaminute, shouldn't this be something like; Tap: Add G to your mana pool. Tap: Add B or W Bosk deals 1 damage to you?

That would be amazing. Otherwise as far as standard is concerned it's just another Caves of Koilos that can be tutored up with a few cards. Yeah, it has some synergy with Treefolk Harbinger, but I dunno if it's worth it. I play a deck with 4 Doran and 4 Nameless Inversion, but no Harbingers and no reason to play this over Caves wich will never have to CIP tapped.

Legacy on the other hand can Fetch for it, but why not just get a Scrub instead?

It is a Forest, so by the rules of the game, it has TAP: Add G to your mana pool.
Remember when they printed the Rav duals? The Add x or y was reminder text, not game text.

[Noman Peopled]

Waitaminute, shouldn't this be something like; Tap: Add G to your mana pool. Tap: Add B or W Bosk deals 1 damage to you?

That would be amazing. Otherwise as far as standard is concerned it's just another Caves of Koilos that can be tutored up with a few cards.
A forest automatically taps for green. That's why we have the big dumb mana symbols on basic lands instead of the ability written out like in the days of yore, and also why the Rav duals have their abilities written as reminder text only. //edit: sarnath'd (whatever the hell that means)
I still don't think it's that good. How many Treefolk are you playing, anyway? The Doran lists I've seen have been base-black and I doubt they want to play Foothills and Heaths. Though having a land produce three different colors is nice against Wasteland. I guess you could always go for base-green and splash black for disruption as long as you have it ready to go by turn one (incidentally, this land helps this strategy a lot, though I'd hate to run into Dragon Stompy's Moon effects with that).

[Versus]

Oh, my bad. I wasn't thinking about that. Okay, much better and it will definitely find it's way into Doran decks to some extent, but not a 4 of auto include like the Goblin/Fae duals from LOR. Those that run 4 each of Doran/Harbinger/Nameless will benefit, but most competitive Standard decks that use Doran are more of a just a GWB aggro and wouldn't exceed that of 8-12 "Treefolk" spells.

Regardless, bonus points for the card title reminding me of ESB. Bounty Hunters FTW!

[Nightmare]

That land is NUTS. It's a frigging Tri-land that you can fetch out. I'm not seeing a real downside here.

[Barook]

It's good, but not that good. It still CIPT without a Treefolk and deals damage to you if you want to tap into other colors.

[Nightmare]

It's good, but not that good. It still CIPT without a Treefolk and deals damage to you if you want to tap into other colors.
Great. It also fixes your mana like no other land which can be fetched will do. Opening with a turn 1 fetch, and EOT snag this, seems like a pretty solid play in decks like Survival if they lack another turn 1 play. I'm saying it's a good one of.

[Belgareth]

Assuming this is accurate (and hydro of mtgs usually is)

Sensation Gorger
:1: :r: :r:
Creature – Goblin Shaman
Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with Sensation Gorger you may reveal it.
If you do, each player discards his or her hand and draws four cards.
2/2
“More. More. MORE!!”
Rare.

Considering kinship is optional , this is basically a neat way to refuel your hand , certainly something to think about.

[Aggro_zombies]

Interesting. The closest thing to it is Ringleader, which I think is better, but this may have applications against decks where you don't want your opponent to be holding much in hand.

Either way, not as good as Ringleader.

[Zach Tartell]

...this may have applications against decks where you don't want your opponent to be holding much in hand.

Clearly we have differeing understandings as to what "Not much in hand" means. I can't think of a competitive deck that couldn't give you headaches with 4 cards in hand. The only thing that wouldn't go nuts is like... very dedicated control. Thresh will just drop men or pop cantrips into more good cards, Agro will drop men/burn your face off, combo will have won by the time he matters (with the exception of SOlidararity), and prison will... play another smokestack? Hit more land?

This guy is trash, just like the Vamp tutor on a stick.

[Pinder]

Great. It also fixes your mana like no other land which can be fetched will do.

This is really the main thing is has going for it, IMO. If it just tapped for three different colors, then meh. The fact that you can fetch it (or Land Grant it, or whatever) is what makes the card so great.

Especially as a one of.

And just so everyone's on the same page here, the fact that it's a forest means it taps for green too, not just B or W. I didn't realize that until a couple of minutes after I saw it the first time.

[Bovinious]

I bet it has (tap: add :g: to your mana pool.) in italics on the card like the Rav. Duals and Dryad Arbor so nublets realize it can tap for green mana as well as the other B/W ability.

[Barook]

I bet it has (tap: add :g: to your mana pool.) in italics on the card like the Rav. Duals and Dryad Arbor so nublets realize it can tap for green mana as well as the other B/W ability.

Depends - Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth came without a reminder text.

[etrigan]

but this may have applications against decks where you don't want your opponent to be holding much in hand.

I dont want storm combo to have cards in hand, but I also dont want them to be seeing 4 new cards every couple of turns.

[BreathWeapon]

Doesn't Bosk open up the door to 4c Threshold even wider? That deck wanted a reason to run Doran any way, this may as well be it.

[TeenieBopper]

Assuming this is accurate (and hydro of mtgs usually is)

Sensation Gorger
:1: :r: :r:
Creature – Goblin Shaman
Kinship - At the beginning of your upkeep, you may look at the top card of your library. If it shares a creature type with Sensation Gorger you may reveal it.
If you do, each player discards his or her hand and draws four cards.
2/2
“More. More. MORE!!”
Rare.

Considering kinship is optional , this is basically a neat way to refuel your hand , certainly something to think about.

This is interesting. Too bad it's in the slot that's full enough as it is in Goblins. It'll be nuts in T2, though.