[Weekly Tournament] Portland, Oregon at Ancient Wonders

[Volt]

What: Weekly Legacy Tournament

When: Every Saturday @ 5:00pm

Where: Ancient Wonders
19060 SW Boones Ferry Rd
Tualatin, OR 97062
Phone: (503) 692-0753

Entry Fee: $5

Proxies:
Any number of dual lands and fetch lands may be proxied.
Additionally, up to 8 more cards may be proxied.

Make sure all proxies are legible, with name of card, card type, casting cost, power/ toughness and card text clearly written in sharpie.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Shouldn't this be here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13)?

[Volt]

Shouldn't this be here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13)?

Yes, it should, of course. Someone please move it. Thanks.

Done. - Bardo

[tatt2dfreak]

Proxies?

Are you kidding me? Come on man... if you ain't got the card, you shouldn't be able to use it... My midget has spent way to much money to play a game VS. someone using Proxies... Not even cool...


Other then that... After a few fights with my wife, I'm sure she'll let me go as long as my midget pays for the gas... lol

[Volt]

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[tatt2dfreak]

I understand what you are saying, I really do, but getting beat my someone using fake cards and losing prizes to people with fake cards just don't seem right... I'll play if my wife lets me go... that's just seems like a long drive to possably lose to some one playing with fake cards...

[DeathwingZERO]

I understand what you are saying, I really do, but getting beat my someone using fake cards and losing prizes to people with fake cards just don't seem right... I'll play if my wife lets me go... that's just seems like a long drive to possably lose to some one playing with fake cards...

You must hate Vintage, don't you? In all fairness, I know 3 people in the Portland area, including myself, who could have built a deck in that format out of 75 legit cards. Now I can't even do it anymore, lol.

But ya, I like this idea, not having to spend an asston on duals or Tarmogoyf's mean that we're going to cut the final excuse from everybody at once. We have attendance, support, awesome prizes (entry fee goes straight back in as inventory payout 100%), and access to many cards on the spot. Rarely has George been out of things I needed that day or within the week.

And sorry I couldn't make it down there today guys, my mom basically bombarded my plans for the day prior to going out to eat for dinner, on top of needing to hit the DMV thanks to my license expiring today, Booya!

[Volt]

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[DeathwingZERO]

Well, I hope you can come, Buddha. Is your wife the reason you haven't made it to the last several monthly tournaments at Batcave, which is much closer to where you live, and doesn't allow proxies? :tongue:

Nah, he's just afraid I'll show again. I'm like 10-0 against the mighty Buddha, and I only show like once every 6 months now. Think he got tired of the risk of being knocked out of prizes by the Combo Ronin.

[Jak]

Any idea on what the prizes will be?

[Volt]

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[tatt2dfreak]

Ok... I used to go to the cave every Friday night and play with my friend’s allot... but my wife started not liking it and was getting kind of bitter about it... We had a talk and I decided I would only go to the cave once a month... I love my wife very much and do not want my home life to become a war zone. I some times go more then once a month... in July I think I went every week...my birthday month and all...


Happy Birthday Ryan...


As for as being afraid... Not so much... I hate getting beat... I really do, but I'm not afraid to lose... and I have yet to beat Ryan, but I will... someday... maybe... lol

[DeathwingZERO]

Also the setup here is different. Typically it's 4 rounds, but George is willing to do top 8 or top 4 cuts, depending on attendance. Personally I find that more entertaining than just 4 rounds and hoping to go 4-0.

And you may beat me sometime in the near future, Buddha. The deck I've been wanting to bring punishes a lot of the regulars, but your mono-colored stompy style decks are still a nuisance to my build. Still working on SB options for that.

[Bovinious]

I dont live in Oregon or anything so Im not fully aware of your situation, but allowing proxies in Legacy just seems wrong to me. This format is not more expensive than say Extended or Standard, and definately not more so than Vintage. In Vintage you actually NEED the proxies b/c cards cost several hundred dollars, in our format they ban cards like that (see Mana Drain, Illusionary Mask, Library of Alexandria). Anyone who complains Legacy is too expensive is probably either ignorant or stupid, and you probably dont want them at your tournament anyways...

Also, if your going to do proxies, it should NOT be like...infinite proxies like you currently have it set up...ANY number of duals/fetches AND 8 more...I could pretty much build 43Land and have like half the deck be proxies under this system...

Just my VA-an 2 cents...

[DeathwingZERO]

Though it's your opinion, your outlook is flawed. The point of allowing proxies is to get people that want to play with enough (but not all) Legacy "staples" to try their hand in the format.

The system is easily changed once we get people to start coming on a regular basis, but at the same time keeps those who just show up with their decks but want to eventually play in tournaments more incentive to try.

I hardly consider giving people access to 8 "free" proxies as well as any fetchlands and duals a hinderance to the tournament. Yes, I can build pretty much every deck I want now for pretty cheap prices now, but I'm still getting my ass handed to me if I suck.

Basically, what it comes down to is making sure support is there. If more people show interest, hopefully the field gets better as a whole to keep up. If more people show interest in the format, it sticks around (rather than dying the 4-5 times we've tried it over the past 3 years).

Also, the 8 to 12 of us "regulars" are Source contributors, if we don't at least move around in various threads with our own two cents and modifications, we're out forging decks and bringing them back here. That in itself is enough of a threat for some who want to play in semi-competitive environments. We don't want them using the excuse that they can't afford it on top of the fact us hanging out in semi-serious discussions about decks and mods at the table all the time somewhat offsets their image of us as wannabe pros.

[Volt]

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[Bovinious]

Well what Ive got to ask you is this then, what real incentive is there for them to actually get the Legacy cards if your going to allow proxies? Are you really going to be like "You just played 24Proxy.dec and loved it, now go spend a significant amount of money (tho less than you would in Standard/Ext) on the real cards." People arnt likely to want to, even if they like the format, because they initailly got to use proxies and would continue to want to, and continuing to use them would piss off people with real cards who dont want to lose to Chimney Imp with some permanent marker on it. I guess if the tourney situation is truly dire than try it out, but I cannot see this actually helping you develop a bigger playerbase that eventually doesnt need proxies.

[DeathwingZERO]

Words.....

You've basically said you think Vintage is a failed experiment. IF we allow proxies, we cut the budget constraints people have with the format. At the same time, we're giving more access to bring in more options, as they can now use our tournaments to playtest rather than bullshit like MWS.

At the same time, we're putting out the idea that if you like what you see, continue to play. We'll still have the sanctioned Sunday tournaments at the Batcave, as well as options to put out higher money style tournaments like I did with my store last year, which will again be sanctioned.

So with better prize tournaments coming directly from people coming to proxy tournaments, we will eventually get to the point that everyone is on the same playing field, regardless of constraints. There's no losers here.

[Volt]

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[Bovinious]

You've basically said you think Vintage is a failed experiment. IF we allow proxies, we cut the budget constraints people have with the format. At the same time, we're giving more access to bring in more options, as they can now use our tournaments to playtest rather than bullshit like MWS.

At the same time, we're putting out the idea that if you like what you see, continue to play. We'll still have the sanctioned Sunday tournaments at the Batcave, as well as options to put out higher money style tournaments like I did with my store last year, which will again be sanctioned.

So with better prize tournaments coming directly from people coming to proxy tournaments, we will eventually get to the point that everyone is on the same playing field, regardless of constraints. There's no losers here.

Well no thats not really what I was trying to say at all, Im not trying to be critical or anything, just offering my opinion. In Vintage way more people NEED to be able to use proxies to be competitive, what Im saying is there is not such a great need in Legacy (35 for a Trop is reasonable compared to 500 for Ancestral), and even in Vintage they only allow a certain number, usually 5 or 10, not potentially 20-30. I agree that it will likely get more people to play, but Im not sure they will actually stick around or get the cards when they could use proxies before.

Im not gunna argue anymore, that wasnt really my intent, good luck with this and let us know how it goes, I suppose, I hope Im wrong :)

[Jak]

Well no thats not really what I was trying to say at all, Im not trying to be critical or anything, just offering my opinion. In Vintage way more people NEED to be able to use proxies to be competitive, what Im saying is there is not such a great need in Legacy (35 for a Trop is reasonable compared to 500 for Ancestral), and even in Vintage they only allow a certain number, usually 5 or 10, not potentially 20-30. I agree that it will likely get more people to play, but Im not sure they will actually stick around or get the cards when they could use proxies before.

Im not gunna argue anymore, that wasnt really my intent, good luck with this and let us know how it goes, I suppose, I hope Im wrong :)

If people start going to the weekly tournaments regularly, I think being able to play in the bigger monthly tounament is an incentive. I think this is a good idea because it does allow people like me to test out a lot of different ideas. I really don't care if I get beat with someone with proxies. Why should it matter? I think this is a good idea/experiment for the Portland area and I hope it will work out.

First deck to proxy is 43 lands :smile: .

[DeathwingZERO]

We already have 2 players in the area able to play Lands!.dec as it is :D

I personally love this idea. We have a number of people capable of playing Thresh, Landstill, TES, Ichorid, Loam.dec, Goblins, and various other upper tier stuff, now we get the playing field to balance a bit for the players that don't want to drop $200+ right away.

[LGD]

Couldn't make it this week but I'll start trying to actually attend when I'm in town. IMHO the proxies can't possibly be bad as attendence badly needs some sort of increase and taking the financial considerations out of it should hopefully do that with some promotion. Building something like Thresh drops from a $600-ish prospect down to some old commons, relatively cheap rares and your type 2 playset of pithing needles. I know a decent number of people who might be interested but have sold off their collections at one point or another and don't really feel like spending the cost of multiple game systems to get started in a format with such poor participation- some of these people have pretty-much stopped playing magic entirely but others drop large ammounts of money on type 2 and would doubtless be willing to do the same on Legacy if there was an actuall reason to do so. I personally like it when the opponents I'm playing bring their A-game and get crushed by me because we played a decent game of magic and not because I could/was willing to drop a few hundred more dollars on old pieces of cardboard than they were, and not having to blow my proxies on expensive staples I already own just means I can opt to play semi-obscure and annoying decks that make use of expensive and hard-to-find cards out of Legends and the various Portal sets. I'd love to get a chance to play around with Sea Drakes, Rolling Earthquakes and 6-8GeddonStax.dec but even as someone with a fairly decent legacy cardpool and adequate disposable income it just wouldn't make any sense for me to go buy those cards- again especially because of the anemic tournament attendance.

[DeathwingZERO]

I really think this is going to make the metagame here much stronger. Just off the top of my head, here's a bit of what we get to now work into every deck imaginable and test with in real "combat" situations:

40 Duals
20 Fetchlands
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Grim Tutor
4 Sea Drake
4 Force of Will
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
4 Moat
4 Abyss
4 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

This alone gives us access to play "optimal" lists without the excruciatingly painful part of plopping down $200-500 a deckset of some of these cards. If anything, I think the players will be stronger thanks to this, early on.

[jeremys]

Too bad I didn't see this thread till today, I could have gone this week. I have my son the next 2 weeks but 3 weeks from now should be doable. I played at AW back when there were monday night tournaments, more attendance would be great.

[Volt]

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[xsockmonkeyx]

40 Fetchlands

Full set of fetchlands is 20 cards. Just sayin.

[tatt2dfreak]

WOW, looks like a started a heated debate...


I plan on being there and playing against proxies, Hell I might even use a few just because I can... I don't plan to lose, so it should be fun...

I want to support local play and I want as many people to enjoy the game of magic as much as I do...

[Pinder]

Not that I'll be there short of once in a blue moon, but I think that proxies are actually a pretty nice idea if you're trying to drive attendance up. That way, people who don't have the staples can still use them with a minimal investment, and the Legacy regulars that do can proxy the money cards like Grim Tutor, Sea Drake, Tarmogoyf (there are still people who don't have them), Imperial Recruiter, etc., etc.

[DeathwingZERO]

Full set of fetchlands is 20 cards. Just sayin.

Counting while high and looking over lists for expensive cards to proxy is just asking for a mistake. And it also reminds me how much I hate Wizards for not printing the opposing colored fetchlands.

[Pinder]

And it also reminds me how much I hate Wizards for not printing the opposing colored fetchlands.

God, do people remember the rumor that Time Spiral was going to have enemy-colored fetches? I hoped beyond all hope that was true.

But it wasn't :frown:.

[jeremys]

Does George still have a good selection of cards? I seem to remember he did back when I was playing there. I just went to the website, or what I thought was the website and the online catalog seems to be down or broken or something, it's not showing any cards.

[DeathwingZERO]

He hasn't done anything with a website in quite some time now. His selection is still pretty good, I know there's 10+ FoW, a number of common/uncommon staples, current stuff, Duals, Jewelry, etc.

Some of the more exotic stuff (Legends, Arabian, Antiquities, etc) he might have one or two of, but probably very little overall.

His prices are scaled by FMC, so be prepared to talk him down a little if you think it's too high. On occasions he's been lax enough to knock a few bucks off a dual or the like for me if he's not tight on stock. He's extremely fair overall, especially if he knows you.

So what are we looking at for a headcount for next weekend? I should be game for it, and I'll try to drag some guys along that are too lazy/disinclined to go to Buttcave, like me. Thinking with access to free duals and fetches + 8 proxies, I may be able to start doing some random decks I've had sitting in the back of my mind as of late.

[Jak]

I should be there.

[jeremys]

I'm not so worried about exotic stuff, at this point whatever I'd be picking up just has to be playable. I think the only moderately exotic cards I have are two survival (japanese?) and a couple italian chain lightnings and lightning bolts. The bolts were cheap and the survivals were the only ones I could find at the time. Oh, and a german cursed scroll.

As previously mentioned I won't be there this week, or next, but hopefully the week after that, probably with my girlfriend.

[AngryTroll]

Ancient Wonders has a fair Type 2 scene, some Extended players, and droves and droves of casual players. An extended player will have almost everything they need to build a Legacy deck, except the real duals, Force, and Swords to Plowshares. StP is cheap, but Force is not. Most people aren't going to dish out for Force of Wills to play in one Legacy Tournament.

However, if people are willing to try Legacy and see what it is like, then they can use store credit to pick up Duals, Fetches, and Forces. There are still the once a month Sunday tournaments, as well as The Batcave tournaments.

Plus, an Extended or Type Two player that proxies 8 Duals, 7 Fetches, 4 Force, and 4 Goyf to play Thresh is not going to beat a Legacy player that has Thresh built and knows it like the back of their hand. Letting people Proxy opens up the field, but the people that have the cards should still have the advantage of familiarity of the format, decks, and cards. A player that proxies up Landstill the week before the tournament, even if they play it all week, is going to have a terrible time with the deck at the tournament playing against good players.

[Bardo]

I'd go if you did some advertising, put up decent prize support, etc. Killing a day to play 4 rounds against < 16 players sucks.

Proxies are fine, though I think the store should charge for them (maybe, $1/proxy). If that's what it takes to boost attendence, so be it.

Anyway, Portland has a lot potential to have an awesome 1.5 scene. It's a kick in the pants that it's such a piece of shit. :/

[Volt]

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[jeremys]

It's a catch 22, no one wants to come if there's not good attendance and prize support. If the attendance isn't good there's no incentive for better prize support. The more people who show up the more incentive for better prizes. It's obvious but the only way to get this off the ground is for people to show up. So says the guy who won't be able to show for two weeks. :p

[xsockmonkeyx]

Personally, I think the idea is very interesting. It will neat to see if attendance and deck quality improves as a result and if the experience would be better or worse overall with X number of proxies.

Thresh becomes a budget deck:

2 Flooded Strand = $0
2 Polluted Delta = $0
3 Wooded Foothills = $0
3 Tropical Island = $0
4 Volcanic Island = $0
2 Island = $0
1 Forest = $0

4 Nimble Mongoose = $6
4 Tarmogoyf = $0
2 Fledgling Dragon = $3

4 Counterbalance = $4

4 Brainstorm = $1.50
4 Ponder = $1
2 Portent = $.50
4 Predict = $.50
3 Sensei's Divining Top = $6

4 Force of Will = $0
4 Daze $1
4 Lightning Bolt $4
----------
$~28


Goblins is cheap too:

4 Wasteland = $0
3 Rishadan Port - $20
7 Mountain = $0
1 Bloodstained Mire = $0
4 Taiga = $0
4 Wooded Foothills = $0

4 Mogg Fanatic = $1.50
4 Goblin Lackey = $24
4 Goblin Piledriver = $0
4 Goblin Matron = $1.50
4 Goblin Warchief = $6
4 Goblin Ringleader = $6
3 Siege-Gang Commander = $9
3 Gempalm Incinerator = $1
2 Tin Street Hooligan = $.25
1 Goblin Sharpshooter = $5

4 AEther Vial = $6
----------
$~80


Breakfast is also very cheap:

3 Flooded Strand = $0
4 Polluted Delta = $0
4 Tropical Island = $0
4 Tundra = $0
1 Underground Sea = $0
1 Island = $0

4 Aether Vial $6

4 Cephalid Illusionist = $.50
4 Nomads en-Kor = $.50
1 Shaman en-Kor = $2
4 Tarmogoyf = $0

3 Narcomoeba $1.50
1 Sutured Ghoul $1
1 Dragon's Breath $.10
1 Dread Return = $.50

4 Brainstorm $1.50
4 Ponder $1
2 Eladamri's Call $3
4 Wordly Tutor $5

2 Cabal Therapy $8
4 Force of Will =$0
-------
$~31

[zulander]

I think that proxies will help your metagame. Since the prizes are store credit, and there is enough legacy cards the store is selling, you should have the proxies issue resolved in a timely fashion.

[AngryTroll]

Exactly. And the Sunday tournaments should encourage players to actually buy the proxies if they enjoy the format.

It is funny to allow proxies in Legacy, I do admit, but I certainly couldn't afford to just pick up a set of duals and fetches to build a two color deck, much less seven or eight duals and four to six fetches to go with them. This should work out pretty well for everyone.

[Bardo]

I'm pretty ambivalent on the proxy topic, as long as they observe some basic guidelines:

* Must be on a basic land
* Must use ink
* Must be LEGIBLE!!
* Must clearly include:
casting cost
card name
card type
p/t
What the card does (full Oracle text seems excessive--try writing out Old Man of the Sea, for instance)

Basically, no one should be able to find an RV Plains in the back of their closet, scrawl "FOW!" on it and save themselves $25.

About attendence and all that, I'm in favor of a larger "kick-off" sort of tournament with at least some decent prizes; rather than a random "show up any Saturday you feel like" sort of arrangement.

A monthly tournament with 16-20 people is far, far more interesting than a weekly tournament that draws 4-8. I can pretty much guarantee that I'll never make it to something like that, unless it really catches on and you have good numbers.

As for advertising, well the store owner would know better about that than me. Certainly, advertising on this here site and isn't there another site just for MtG in the Pacific Northwest? I seem to recall stumbling on it a year ago. The store owner should also do their part to put up signs around their store and market it during the other MtG events ("Next Saturday we're holding a Legacy tournament, so if you have a bunch of old cards or decks you haven't played with, here's your chance. The Banned List is printed over there.") Something to that effect.

[AngryTroll]

Better yet, make it Sharpie instead of ink.

I would love to get a solid weekly tournament like they have in Seattle, with 20-30 people. It's a Catch 22-with attendance that high, we could get attendance. Guys like LinkXWing, Zilla, and Joe might even bother showing up. With 20 people, prizes would be pretty decent, competition would be pretty good after the first or second round, we could have a Top 8, all sorts of good stuff.

[DeathwingZERO]

I'm not sure if the site you were referring to was NW Magic, but I know when I had talked about my 4x Force tournament at the shop all they did was bitch about how nobody would bother driving down to that, because most that posted were from Seattle. Anybody who still has an account there can give it a try, but I know my login information is long since forgotten.

The weekly tournaments are best done by word of mouth, really. I know there's a number of guys that come in on Saturdays to play group games and casual, and some have showed me great interest in actually trying out Legacy and Vintage. A couple of them already have all the cards they'd need for it, as they are also collectors. I'm not even sure if George has a bulletin board or a monthly play calendar anymore, but I'll check.

We could also get one of you guys to sticky the topic like we had done with my shop before, which keeps everyone informed of all the info they need to know to get there, enforcement of rules (proxies), etc. It seems like there's a much larger number of regular Portland Sourcers talking on here than last, so I'm sure we could spread the word much quicker this time around.

Anyway, I plan on showing up to this weekend. Saturday gives me a long time to sober up from my New Years' Guitar Hero 3 fest, and the duals and proxies will allow me to play basically anything I want. I just stumbled across an old binder of mine that had Dazes, Mongeese, Brainstorms and some other stuff, so I could actually put together good decks like Thresh even being broke. I see no reason why anybody else couldn't pull this off if I can.

[Volt]

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[tatt2dfreak]

So far I got Me, Midget and Scott Mills for saturday!

[Volt]

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[DeathwingZERO]

Alright, so who's door do I have to bust in to get this thing stickied again? Zilla had my store's announcement up within a week, nobody's on the ball with this one.

I'm gonna make it Saturday, though no Buttcave for me Friday. I'm going to George's to start doing Booster Drafts. Not a bad way to rebuild my collection, start getting back into Standard, and work on my ratings as well.

I figure if I'm gonna get back into tournaments, I may as well get back into them in more than 1 format.

[AngryTroll]

I'll be there. I'm trying to drag Noah and Greg there too. We should kidnap Brett and make him play. Hopefully with about 2 hours of sleep.

And Ryan, you had better show your butt up to this one. You know what I am talking about.

[Bardo]

Alright, so who's door do I have to bust in to get this thing stickied again?

PMs for mod stuff does wonders.

/ Stuck

[DeathwingZERO]

PMs for mod stuff does wonders.

/ Stuck

Mods and PMS in the same sentence? How ironic. And I thought PM's were meant for Texans?

Anyways, I'm showing to this one. It'll take a small tactical nuke in my ass to keep me from showing up this time, I'm sick of not being able to play any Magic since I'm too broke to play any Hold 'Em.

And I've confirmed Brett can't make it, he's working 5pm to close most Saturdays unless he's lucky. But if anybody wants to get in on some draft action, I'll be there tomorrow night as well for the FNM shaz.

[tatt2dfreak]

OK... I have good news and bad!


Good News is I will be at the cave tonight! With Aggro/Contol.... :cool:

Bad News is Midget refuses to play against proxies in a tournement... He says "I Spent way to much money on our collection to lose to fake cards, if I get beat and taken out of the money by someone using fake cards... I'll Freak"


So I don't have a away there, because midget is my gas... unless I can get a ride with Scott MIlls... We will see...

[Volt]

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[LinkXwing]

Good God, there's always so much fucking drama with Magic players. I couldn't make it because I was hung over. I couldn't make it because I was having a bad peyote trip. I couldn't make it because I was having a good peyote trip. I couldn't make it because my bowels exploded. I couldn't make it because my midget wouldn't drive me. I couldn't make it because aliens abducted me and probed my anus. I couldn't make it because I was having a frontal lobotomy. Gah.

"I couldn't make it because I was busy kicking my crew's ass" is a personal favorite of mine and the one I'm currently using.

[DeathwingZERO]

Good God, there's always so much fucking drama with Magic players. I couldn't make it because I was hung over. I couldn't make it because I was having a bad peyote trip. I couldn't make it because I was having a good peyote trip. I couldn't make it because my bowels exploded. I couldn't make it because my midget wouldn't drive me. I couldn't make it because aliens abducted me and probed my anus. I couldn't make it because I was having a frontal lobotomy. Gah.

Don't forget "I couldn't make it because I'd rather go lose my money to better poker players." Love that one.

And seriously, would YOU have wanted me there? Another $10 in the pot, sure, but I spent a good 30-45 minutes each time in that fucking bathroom (without room spray, as I learned), and in none of that time was I enjoying myself. I'd rather shit myself in private than put any fellow players through it, I figured you'd appreciate that kind of respect for my fellow players.

Factor in all sorts of kids and heat @ Batcave that day, and I'm sure it would have been called off on some sort of toxic poisoning issue.

Either way, I'm still coming tomorrow. If I have to make trips to McDonald's bathrooms in between rounds, I'll come even if my bowels are trying to escape again. But I'm feeling fine so far.

EDIT: Oh, and Buddha, tell Midget I will sit on his ass and water torture his face if he wants to bitch about me using proxies now. I spent more money on single transactions then he's probably put out in years of collecting. I don't need someone telling me that they're better than me because they own a card I don't right now.

[Volt]

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[AngryTroll]

Come on Buddah. If Midget can win the first round or two, he should be playing against Source Regulars, who won't need proxies.

You're bigger than he is...can't you just throw him in the car and drag him along?

[DeathwingZERO]

So I showed up for the draft tonight, and did a disappointing 2-1-1 finish. This is all because of one single play mistake I made in the second round, which would have guaranteed me the win, and a probably 3-1 finish. The sad thing? It was protecting a single fucking creature on my side from a shock-like spell when I could have just let it die and swung again the next turn.

Moral of the story:

WE NEED MORE GODDAMN TOURNAMENTS SO I STOP GIVING GAMES TO SCRUBS FOR BEING OUT OF PRACTICE!!!!!

So ya, show up, douchebags.

[Jak]

So ya, show up, admins.

Fixed

[DeathwingZERO]

QFT. Acting like they have lives and waste hours sitting on here telling us what to talk about.

You're all hypocrites. I'd tell you to drown in a prairie, but none of you would bother driving to Eastern Oregon for that either, because the drive would be "too long".

Douchebaggery.

[frogboy]

Monthly large tournaments are better than weekly tournaments because it's a smaller time investment for more reward.

[Volt]

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[DeathwingZERO]

Monthly large tournaments are better than weekly tournaments because it's a smaller time investment for more reward.

That'd only be true if your ass ever won anything. L0zr.

Oh sorry, that's potentially flaming.......

Maybe if you showed up more, I'd have more chances of running you over with my car for not showing up to any of the big ones we've had previously.

There, now it's not flaming. That's merely a threat on your life backed by you being a hypocrite.

EDIT: Speaking of Zilla, is he even alive? I messaged him on AIM/Trillian a few times, and never got responses. Am I such an easily forgettable person?

[Bardo]

EDIT: Speaking of Zilla, is he even alive? I messaged him on AIM/Trillian a few times, and never got responses. Am I such an easily forgettable person?

Last seen in Azuremyst, I'm afraid... Yep, him too.

[tatt2dfreak]

I Couldn't make it last night... after working a 12 hour shift I was just to dog azz tired...

I can't make it to AW either now, Scott isn't going and my Vas takes to much Gas... I really wanna go to AW and see the shop at least... but I can't aford the gas... I get paid on the 11th.. we will try then...

[Skogen]

Zilla needs to show so I can talk to him about his Sig and how well a G3 clone performs... I mean uh, magic theory and trade stock.

When facing Ryan, remind him to leave a creature untapped for a chump blocker so he doesn't lose the match to a top decked warren pilferers when he would've won next turn. Ouch XD

[DeathwingZERO]

Last seen in Azuremyst, I'm afraid... Yep, him too.

Hey, I've been playing WoW for about a month and a half, that's still no excuse for not going outside. Even I have gotten to the point I'd rather be outside, and I'm a goddamn hermit.

EDIT: And my Legacy deck doesn't have blockers, douchebag. I'm already having enough trouble looking at my draft deck without ripping it to pieces.

[Volt]

.

[Jak]

It was a lot of fun and I hope more people can make it next week. I hope I can.

[DeathwingZERO]

Good times were had by all.

While my deck is still in the first steps of tweaking, I lost to stompy, which is probably an auto-win in most cases.

Though I guess I'm fine with it's performance, it at least gave me more ideas to bounce around for a more varied metagame.

Here's to hoping more show up for the next coming weeks/months.

[AngryTroll]

My only lost match was Nick's freaking unbelieable topdeck mad skillz. Seriously.

At 20 till 5 Chris and I were the only two there, so we were pretty bummed about the tournament. 8 more people showed up right on time, though, so it was a blast.

Round 1: 10 Land Stompy, with Berserks and Sylvan Library proxied.
I win game one, lose game two on turn 3, and then win game 3 with Big Game Hunter and Survival.

Round 2: Dragon Stompy
I Shriekmaw a threat or two a game and win.

Round 3: Wombat with Krosan Grips
I lose game 1 to a Humility, but pick up the next two without too much effort. My hand disruption, Genesis, Survival, and Burning Wishes, paired with Sideboarded Krosan Grips, go the distance. This matchup is usually very strong for RGBSA, but I was worried after being absolutely owned game one.

Round 4: Nick with UW Seret Tech, coming to a CANGD Contest near you!
I lose game one after keeping a 1 land hand with Birds, Thoughtsieze, Goyf, and Survival. My fault for being dumb.
I win game two, the most interesting game of the tournament (and Nick's only loss all night) on the back of Genesis, Eternal Witness, and his Tabernacle. Every other turn I would get to bring back the card I needed the most to try to force it through the countermagic.
Game three is ridiculous. I tear apart his hand, play some threats, and try to win from there. He is stuck on 3 land. I know he has a Stifle, Pithing Needle, Ghostly Prison, and one more card in hand. I let him Stifle a fetchland, Therapy him, and he Brainstorms (his topdeck). When I get to look at his hand, he has 3 Rishadin Ports. I lose from there. Seriously...that Brainstorm won him the match.

I picked up 8 Unhinged land with the credit. I hope that people keep showing up to these, even though I won't be to the next couple because I'm back at school. I think I can make the weekend of the Sunday Tournament.

[DeathwingZERO]

Round 4: Nick with UW Seret Tech, coming to a CANGD Contest near you!

I picked up 8 Unhinged land with the credit. I hope that people keep showing up to these, even though I won't be to the next couple because I'm back at school. I think I can make the weekend of the Sunday Tournament.

Remind me to get a list from Nick at some point, I really want to test with that build. From what Chris was explaining to me, it sounds incredibly strong.

Oh, and what Unhinged lands are you looking for still (if any)? I cracked about 2-3 boxes that were spare from my shop and have roughly 10-15 of each color lying around doing nothing.

Dumbass me and my not bringing trade binder stuff.

[Akira]

Hey just thought I would chime in a little late but whatever.

to the dumbass comparing legacy prices to Standard (I think he relized he was out numbered) he is wrong. I am an avid standard player and have been forever. I built a merfolk deck for about 20 dollars and only changed it when I won credit and made additions to the deck. I have always gotten at least top 4 with it. Im glad he left too cause he anger the mighty Quinn.

Also I can go to these tournaments I just need a ride. Maybe Ill have one of my friends or my mommy to take me. So I can crush Don on 7th or 8th turn with ichorid and no sideboard. lol he was sooo pissed.

And finally I like your excuses chris. I use the first one alot, most type 2 tournamnets I play in Im hung over. Also dont joke about the exploding bowels and anus probing alien abductions I have had both happen. I actually saw you on the probing table next to me It was hard to recongnize you since you looked like you were getting probed by aliens. lol

[AngryTroll]

Frack Ichorid.

[DeathwingZERO]

Who the hell is this kid?

And I have to agree, Frack Ichorid. Needing to play spells n shit. Vintage Ichorid FTW, Legacy Ichorid FTL.

[AngryTroll]

He plays at Batcave. (This is Don, as you may have guessed).

I sat through terrible traffic to get there (Someone wrecked on the bridge, took me about 90 minutes to get there), had the buy round one (lucky), then played Ichorid round two. Hmm...this is fun. Game two I had Engineered Plague and Magus of the Moon, but drew land for about infinite turns, and he eventually won from 4 life or so.

For the last round, I played Buddah, and got Berserked out of the match on the first couple turns of games one and two.

So, boo Ichorid. Drive time: over two hours, round trip. Total magic time: About 8 turns against Buddah, then playing Buddah afterwards.

[frogboy]

That'd only be true if your ass ever won anything. L0zr.


I live in Seattle most of the year. The last time I played in a tournament in Vancouver I finished in the finals. I'm focused more on PTQs anyway.

[DeathwingZERO]

I live in Seattle most of the year. The last time I played in a tournament in Vancouver I finished in the finals. I'm focused more on PTQs anyway.

You could throw a stone and hit Wizards corporate office, but you can't make a monthly Sunday that's only 2 1/2 hours away? Hell, you were even giving Pinder excuses about bussing across town to the weekly tournaments.

I just find it sad that half the admins and moderators here don't even play Legacy anymore, even on a semi-competitive level.

You all make baby Richard Garfield cry.

EDIT: Oh, and start messaging me more often on AIM when you see me. I need to speaks with yous about things going on in Standard and the like. I've started drafting again at Ancient Wonders on Fridays for the hell of it, so I wouldn't mind getting some pointers from you on that as well.

And when the hell did I reach 1000 posts?

[Pinder]

And when the hell did I reach 1000 posts?

About three posts ago, apparently.

And while Rotten/ZillA might not play competitive Magic much, Di certainly does.

[frogboy]

I haven't played Standard since Regionals.

And WotC is in Renton, which is like a half hour away.

[DeathwingZERO]

About three posts ago, apparently.

And while Rotten/ZillA might not play competitive Magic much, Di certainly does.

I know that Di and Nightmare are still well in on the tournament scene, and I'm pretty sure a decent amount of the adepts still do, but still, we have like no representin' goin on from the West Coast here.

Oh, I guess you count. I suppose they had to bump you from member for something other than Mish Mash. I'll let you in on something though (it's not from any of your tournaments out here, haha).

@ Froggy: That just shows your lack of dedication. A 30 minute drive should not be enough to stop you from being able to throw a stone at WotC.

[tatt2dfreak]

He plays at Batcave. (This is Don, as you may have guessed).

I sat through terrible traffic to get there (Someone wrecked on the bridge, took me about 90 minutes to get there), had the buy round one (lucky), then played Ichorid round two. Hmm...this is fun. Game two I had Engineered Plague and Magus of the Moon, but drew land for about infinite turns, and he eventually won from 4 life or so.

For the last round, I played Buddah, and got Berserked out of the match on the first couple turns of games one and two.

So, boo Ichorid. Drive time: over two hours, round trip. Total magic time: About 8 turns against Buddah, then playing Buddah afterwards.


Although I love kicking the pants off of Don, I have to admit, we played for fun after and I could not win to save my life... He just had a BAD day!

[DeathwingZERO]

Watching Don play is a bad day sometimes :P

So you think you're going to be making any of these AW tournaments here soon, Buddha? I could use the extra wins :D

[tatt2dfreak]

Watching Don play is a bad day sometimes :P

So you think you're going to be making any of these AW tournaments here soon, Buddha? I could use the extra wins :D


Dood,

My New Deck it pretty freaking fast... I play it well... I love it... it's a great deck... and it has board hate for almost evry thing...

[DeathwingZERO]

Dood,

My New Deck it pretty freaking fast... I play it well... I love it... it's a great deck... and it has board hate for almost evry thing...

Sounds like a Jack of All Trades, Master of None concept. I look forward to smashing you soon XD

But ya, to be fair I don't even know which deck I'd be playing. Ankh Sligh is incredibly bad for an "unrefined" metagame like last weekends, so I'm doubting on that one. The U/W Mana Tithe deck Nick was packing seems good, but is so goddamn slow. I'm reworking win conditions and possible accelerants into it.

[Jak]

Anybody going tomorrow?

[Volt]

.

[DeathwingZERO]

I'm a go. Need to look into a deck concept though, as I think Sligh is just not good enough. I picked up a Garruk for 4 packs of Lorwyn tonight at draft, so I'm almost considering that U/G/b deck I was tinkering around with for a while.

[DeathwingZERO]

Double post FTW

So you bitches better show up this weekend. I need to get some Legacy going, I'm tired of my only Magic interaction being drafts. Too expensive and little payout.

[Volt]

.

[Jak]

Hell yeah! Free food. I hope to make it. Not sure though so don't get mad and sad if I don't show

[DeathwingZERO]

I'll be there. Nick says he'll be there. I'm not sure about anybody else. The pre-release is this weekend, so I'm not terribly optimistic about getting a great turnout - especially since last week's turnout was me. At the very least, if you, me, Nick, and maybe one other person shows up, we'll have a nice play-testing group.

I'll buy pizza or burgers for anyone who shows up.

Well the car is back (after a wonderful $500+ dropped into the coolant system), so I'm for sure going to make it. I'm still tinkering with a U/G/b Garruk (Landstill?) deck, so I'll probably proxy that up when I'm there.

Also, I'm probably going to grab Brett's cards so I can work on that deck Nick was going over. The more I think about it, the more I want a green splash, just to throw in Crop Rotation/Living Wish/Loam for faster/more consistent access to Tabernacles, and Tarmogoyf (cause I'm a douchebag).

I've also been looking into upping the land count slightly, adding in Mox Diamonds (for speed), and replacing Fact with something like Thirst (boosts Hoofprints, unlike FoF, and has synergy with more lands).

I REALLY want to stick with U/W, but I'm not sure if it's good enough to stand on it's own without a retooling of threats or the draw.

[Jak]

Did people come today. I had to take down Christmas lights :frown:

[DeathwingZERO]

It was just Chris and I, like it turned out last week. So instead of playing you bastards that didn't show up, we went out to Outback and then saw the late night showing of Cloverfield.

And it was fucking great.

I'll have a report later.

[DeathwingZERO]

Double post because I can.

You guys don't deserve the tournament report. Just go see Cloverfield. If you want to really challenge yourself (like I did), go to somewhere like the Outback first, get something like the Drover's Platter, finish it, THEN go see Cloverfield IMMEDIATELY AFTER. You'll know exactly what I mean by "challenge" in the first 2 minutes, and the remaining 82.

Anyways, the main point of this thread is to rail it onto the post I just made in the Legacy @ Batcave thread about the lack of attendance here. So give me some damn feedback people. Here's a few things we've discussed, in a rational manner.

-Tournament support (IE what do you expect for showing up with your $5)
You are getting 100% back in store credit. Who gets paid at what place depends solely on how many people attend. Times where we've had closer to 20 people back in the day, you could see a top 4 payout. Give that a second to figure out what you can expect.

-Tournament layout
Obviously the proxies are sticking. It's a great idea for people that want to playtest, it's also the perfect reason to bitch at people that say "I can't play because I can't afford it". Uh uh. Not an excuse anymore. As far as the 4 rounds, etc....George has been known to go to 5 rounds with enough people, and we've also had times where we could cut to top 4, as long as everyone in it agreed they could stay for it. The layout is pretty flexible.

-Reasons for not attending, changes that could possibly be made (note, Saturday is probably the only day we can get here, they support a lot of things, and Legacy at the moment unfortunately doesn't bring in much money, we need to change this). We may have a flexible schedule to work with, meaning we could try to push it up a few hours (earlier), or back one (later) at most. It is a Saturday, and we know that to usually be the most flexible as far as time slots.

[Jak]

Not many people. I would be going to these weekly, but when only 6 turn up, it is not the best way to spend my Saturday nights. It is a catch-22, where no one goes because they think no one else is. If there was just 10 who regularly show up, then attendance would improve. I try to go, but I just have stuff more important than owning.

[Bardo]

It is a catch-22, where no one goes because they think no one else is.

Isn't the prisoner's dilemma more apt than a catch-22 situation?

Anyway, try to make it to the Batcave tomorrow, we should have more players:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8300

[Pinder]

I think that, regardless, everyone should show up, at least to see how many people there are. I mean, if there are only 6 or so, sure, you might not want to play, and I don't think anyone could blame you. But if everyone showed up just to see how many people showed up, you could nab some more attendance, methinks.

Oh, and I typically don't show up because I live three and a half hours North of the store and already have a weekly that I go to up here.

Other than that, though, I'd totally show up :tongue:

edit - Also, everyone come to Vancouver tomorrow. Every time you don't, God kills a kitten. That's why I show up.

[Jak]

Oh, and I typically don't show up because I live three and a half hours North of the store and already have a weekly that I go to up here.

Other than that, though, I'd totally show up :tongue:

That is not a good enough excuse.

[Bardo]

I'm not venting here, I literally want to know what reasons are keeping a lot of you from coming in. So do me a favor. Hit up the "Weekly Ancient Wonders" thread, and give me a list of things keeping you guys from coming in. If it's as simple as "work", "family/gf/bf", etc...just put it there. At this point, I really just want to get a headcount on why a tournament that I'm sure a number of players from any other section of the globe would LOVE to see, we're not getting support for.

I think I said it earlier in the thread, but weekly tournaments are not going to happen with me--family shit, mainly. I can make it to the monthly tournament as long as I don't have a conflict with something else going on.

[AngryTroll]

I keep making it whenever I can, but I go to school in Corvallis. It's a Catch 22-if there was good attendance, it'd be worth the 1:15 drive. But why drive it when it ends up being Volt, Deathwing0, and I?

[frogboy]

I don't come because I live in Seattle. But cheer up; I don't go to weeklies in Seattle, either! (if someone lends me three Berserks I promise to show up to one if I can barn the other 71* cards I don't own.)

I would be more interested in quarterly tournaments for real prizes than anything else. Failing that, monthlies. The problem with weekly tournaments is that I would rather draft than play in some random small tournament. If there were weekly large tournaments I'd go if I had nothing else to do that day, but generally don't want to make the time commitment.

For context, I actually spend a fair amount of time testing Extended, but mostly do it online and tend to do it fairly sporadically, because it's easier to find an hour or two a day than an entire weekend afternoon. Last summer, I wasn't testing any decks I was running at weeklies because I didn't really care enough; it wasn't worth the effort.

Basically, I'm with Bardo.

*I might even have a dozen or so of the commons I'm missing!

[DeathwingZERO]

Realistically, the "I don't show up because others won't" is just a cop out, IMO. Between myself, Chris, and Don showing up 2 of the 4 times we've tried this (1 actually being successful), that's 3/8ths of a tournament right there. Nick was going to show tonight, but again, nobody else did (he actually had the nice gesture of calling Chris to confirm, which is rather quick and painless).

So with that, we're nearly guaranteed 4 of 8 people weekly. That means it really only takes 4 more to make it worth most people's time (1st place =20, 2nd =15, 3rd makes back entry, something like that). Really, we have a better setup than Batcave, and a number of people are showing up there, for a worse chance at an equal (or lesser) payout, regardless of players. Even Vancouverites would do better off coming down here on Saturdays, but it seems Washingtonians are just lazy asses.

If only 4 of us show up, we make it a small playtesting session. Worst case scenario, we can pull off a Round Robin, and go $12/$8 for splits on top 2. 3 matches is rarely even the "full" 3 hours, it really doesn't kill the night portion. At worst, you're out the drive to get there and back, really (or even a phone call around 4:30 - 5pm, when we tend to show up).

Call up the store, or Chris, or myself. If you want my number, PM me. I'll about 60% of the time answer it, if I don't, just leave a message or a text message, and I'll get back to you. We really want this to work, the only real reason any tournaments don't succeed is apathy.

EDIT: If you have to drive more than say 30-45 minutes to get here, I can understand that. But if you've ever been out to Batcave from Portland, and you say you can't make this, you're breaking my balls. Seriously. I'd rather shoot myself in the face than drive to Batcave weekly over this.

[jeremys]

For me I'm only available every other weekend due to kid stuff and even then the weekends I don't have I'm spending with my girlfriend so availability is limited to start with. Additionally it's a long trip from hillsboro without a car. On a weekend bus schedule it's a long trip to find out there's only two or three people. That's pretty much it for me.

[Volt]

.

[DeathwingZERO]

Anybody going to bother turning up at this place tonight? Just wanted a heads up so I know whether or not to mod any of my plans. Pretty certain it'll be a bunch of "no", though. Just thought I'd check.

[Volt]

.

[DeathwingZERO]

If you get there around 4:30 and people are there, give me a call. I'm either going to be at my place playing WoW or at my mom's doing some laundry.

[DougS3]

Hey mates,

I was wondering if you have players showing up for the tournaments at AW recently? I've been wanting to play legacy for a long time but I'm still working on getting duals and such but noticed you allow proxies.

One concern I had though is it seems some would view me poorly, I completely understand their reasoning but I'd hope once you met me and realize I'm working on my collection the best I can the view would change a bit. Wouldn't want to show up and feel like I'm being shunned for running some proxies. If I did win, which I won't, I'd invest the store credit into cards anyway to build up.

Hope to hear from someone soon,

Doug Snapp III

[DeathwingZERO]

The proxies was done purely to get more people into the store and willing to play. The problem is this entire area is completely apathetic to organized play other than Limited formats on Friday or Saturday nights. I'm not even sure if anything other than Rainy Day games has Standard as an option for FNM, short of things on the East Side.

I don't know if anyone else here has bothered showing up on Saturdays, but I know when I started working I really didn't have a choice. I haven't bothered going back since then, which has been about a month or two.

[Volt]

.

[DeathwingZERO]

This however does not mean that the bigger events at Batcave are out of the question. By all means try to get something together for the Dual Land Draft going on in June, and hopefully we can get the monthly Sunday tournaments to actually pick up some steam again.

[DougS3]

Right on appreciate the input mates. Was wondering if you guys ever play test after drafts or such? I'd like to get into the scene and get to know some of you etc. Building a MUC list as I have whats expensive like FoW and such and would love to test it against some of what you guys run locally etc, or you could just provide some suggestions of what they run up in WA so I can tweak my list.

Hard lately to test on MWS since it's so random and I can't modify my list to be competitive vs. all it seems, but this is most likely because I'm not that great.

[DeathwingZERO]

I personally can't stand MWS even to playtest with friends of mine. Using a system that's so archaic it might as well be the real thing, I'd rather just play the real thing.

I'd be willing to meet up sometime weekly with people if we all want to get together and playtest. If we continued with the Saturday evening structure we may even start getting people to run on the fly tournaments.

Chris, what do you think of just keeping Saturdays as playtesting days for now?