[Deck] Merfolk

[randomly.anonymous]

Since the printing of Mental Misstep, I largely see mono-blue Merfolk like this:

Top candidates for flex spots: Standstill, Spell Pierce, Kira, Sower, Dismember, Jitte, or more "lords" (Merfolk Sovereign, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image).

I wouldn't say Standstill and pierce are strong contenders for the MD flex slots. Standstill has been cut from fish lists ages ago, and pierce has earned its 3 slots in the board. Kira, Sowers, Dismember, and Clones seem to be the most popular. I like playing Dismember in the flex slot, since the MUs in which removal is good tend to be the ones in which you don't need Spell Pierce, and vice-versa.

The only "combo" decks running about are NO/Prog decks and SnT/Emrakul/Hive Mind decks, and not so much storm combo. You have good tools to fight NO/SnT (up to 19 relevant counterspells), but often this will not be enough as they pack other MD strategies. IMO, Merfolk hasn't changed nearly as much as control decks (Landstill -> Blade Control) or as much as combo decks have shifted (storm combo -> SnT bombs) in the meta. Especially with Zoo and Maverick showing up in large numbers, fish needs more improvement to live up to its reputation before NPH.

[randomly.anonymous]

.

[KobeBryan]

I wouldn't say Standstill and pierce are strong contenders for the MD flex slots. Standstill has been cut from fish lists ages ago, and pierce has earned its 3 slots in the board. Kira, Sowers, Dismember, and Clones seem to be the most popular. I like playing Dismember in the flex slot, since the MUs in which removal is good tend to be the ones in which you don't need Spell Pierce, and vice-versa.

The only "combo" decks running about are NO/Prog decks and SnT/Emrakul/Hive Mind decks, and not so much storm combo. You have good tools to fight NO/SnT (up to 19 relevant counterspells), but often this will not be enough as they pack other MD strategies. IMO, Merfolk hasn't changed nearly as much as control decks (Landstill -> Blade Control) or as much as combo decks have shifted (storm combo -> SnT bombs) in the meta. Especially with Zoo and Maverick showing up in large numbers, fish needs more improvement to live up to its reputation before NPH.

Did you guys see SCG Boston. there are like 4 NORUG decks out there. How do we fight that deck?

There are also loads of Blade decks out there too.

so we will need both hibernation and energy flux in the board now?

[chags]

Did you guys see SCG Boston. there are like 4 NORUG decks out there. How do we fight that deck?

There are also loads of Blade decks out there too.

so we will need both hibernation and energy flux in the board now?


No you just switch decks. Unfortunately I'm only half kidding here, I love the fishies(my list is almost full japanese) but right now it is definitely the wrong choice for the meta. NO Rug gives us so many problems due to the red blasts/pyroblasts they run as well lavamancer. Progenitus is not particularly scary for fish but all those removal spells for one certainly are. Blade control is just as bad a match up considering if stoneforge gets through you pretty much lose, and they run more counter back-up then we do. If only one of these two decks were popular that wouldn't be too difficult to sb properly for but on top of that zoo is also on the rise in the states and GW maverick is getting popular over seas with people now pushing for it to get a spot in the american meta too (ari lax's article today).

Fish is a very solid deck but it is also unfortunately one of those decks that can succumb to being metaed out, I'd say at least until either stoneblade or NO rug goes on the decline the little blue men will have a very hard time seeing the top tables.

[SlopeeJ]

Did you guys see SCG Boston. there are like 4 NORUG decks out there. How do we fight that deck?

There are also loads of Blade decks out there too.

so we will need both hibernation and energy flux in the board now?

Rug shouldn't be a problem, hibernation and kira are just good vs them. Stoneforge is the problem, pretty broken card when they keep printing better equipment

[KobeBryan]

13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 phantasmal image

4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Mental Misstep

sideboard
3x chalice of the void
2x kira
2x llawan
1x dismember
2x submerge
2x hibernation
1x spell pierce
2x energy flux

How does this deck look?

I didn't really board for graveyard because cursecatcher, and other counters seems to be enough for dredge and reanimator. The counters i have is also enough.

What do you guys think? Or do you guys think there are too many overlapping cards

[SageShadows]

No graveyard hate will kill you, especially in Southern California. Cursecatchers can't stop Dredge completely, and Reanimator is horrible to go up against (though I do have an epic 40 turn game to talk about...) Take out the Energy Fluxes and the Llawans- both are far too narrow. What is chalice for? You don't have any sol lands, so it's going to come down late. I'd up the Dismember count. I haven't played with Hibernation yet, but here's my SB.

-2 Phyrexian Metamorph (Kills Jitte and the Legendary creatures, while functioning as a decent SGA or lord)
-2 Cursed Totem (helps with Elves, Grim Lavamancer/Stoneforge type cards)
-2 Spell Pierce (Good combo card)
-2 Submerge (I find that I need more removal against green based decks)
-2 Relic of Progenitus (Varied Grave hate is essential)
-2 Surgical Extraction (Varied Grave hate is essential)
-2 Dismember (I really like the dismembers)
-1 Mind Harness (For the lulz, I might just make this the third Submerge)

Give Hibernation a whirl and let me know how it is. For now, I'd definitely take out the Energy Flux and Chalices and probably take out the Llawans.

[KobeBryan]

No graveyard hate will kill you, especially in Southern California. Cursecatchers can't stop Dredge completely, and Reanimator is horrible to go up against (though I do have an epic 40 turn game to talk about...) Take out the Energy Fluxes and the Llawans- both are far too narrow. What is chalice for? You don't have any sol lands, so it's going to come down late. I'd up the Dismember count. I haven't played with Hibernation yet, but here's my SB.

-2 Phyrexian Metamorph (Kills Jitte and the Legendary creatures, while functioning as a decent SGA or lord)
-2 Cursed Totem (helps with Elves, Grim Lavamancer/Stoneforge type cards)
-2 Spell Pierce (Good combo card)
-2 Submerge (I find that I need more removal against green based decks)
-2 Relic of Progenitus (Varied Grave hate is essential)
-2 Surgical Extraction (Varied Grave hate is essential)
-2 Dismember (I really like the dismembers)
-1 Mind Harness (For the lulz, I might just make this the third Submerge)

Give Hibernation a whirl and let me know how it is. For now, I'd definitely take out the Energy Flux and Chalices and probably take out the Llawans.


ok how do you go up against blade decks?

[SageShadows]

The hope is that Cursed Totem and 4 Dismembers stop the SFM. It's not a good match up.

[Einherjer]

I just bought all this fish (had wastes and forces earlier) and after some testing this DtB seems pretty...weak.... What do you think guys, is it still competitive? Do you take it on a bigger tournament knowing there might be some Stoneblade?
Greetings

[KobeBryan]

I just bought all this fish (had wastes and forces earlier) and after some testing this DtB seems pretty...weak.... What do you think guys, is it still competitive? Do you take it on a bigger tournament knowing there might be some Stoneblade?
Greetings

Dismember is you best friend here. You better have it in your board and sideboard.

[cheerios]

I just bought all this fish (had wastes and forces earlier) and after some testing this DtB seems pretty...weak.... What do you think guys, is it still competitive? Do you take it on a bigger tournament knowing there might be some Stoneblade?
Greetings

Besides dismember, you can also put in pithing needle or cursed totem. Stifle can also be used against them but I think few people run stifle in merfolk nowadays.

[Einherjer]

I got 2 Dismember main, 2 Sideboard and 2 Pithing Neelde Sideboard, should this be enough when i go to the next tournament on wednesday?

[cheerios]

I got 2 Dismember main, 2 Sideboard and 2 Pithing Neelde Sideboard, should this be enough when i go to the next tournament on wednesday?

Make sure you test play against it. You gotta have a feel on how they establish their strategy and what cards you remove in sideboarding.

[KobeBryan]

Make sure you test play against it. You gotta have a feel on how they establish their strategy and what cards you remove in sideboarding.

I believe a good idea now is to use phantasmal image. then manriki when they have a stoneforge out. cast it to destroy equipments.

[SageShadows]

I just bought all this fish (had wastes and forces earlier) and after some testing this DtB seems pretty...weak.... What do you think guys, is it still competitive? Do you take it on a bigger tournament knowing there might be some Stoneblade?
Greetings

To be fair, Merfolk suffered after the printing of Mental Misstep (yeah, confusing, I know). While it's better in a vacuum, the other decks profited more from MM than Merfolk. Merfolk is definitely weaker, but it's still competitive because I feel like it has no HORRENDOUS matchups, only slightly bad matchups that can be won through playskill. Regardless, if you want to WIN, Merfolk isn't the most consistent deck for that. Stoneblade can be eased, like people said, with cursed totems, pithing needles, and LOTS of dismembers.

And Manriki-Gusari is the worst idea in the world. You can't tutor for it; why would you run it as an answer?

[cheerios]

13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
2 phantasmal image

4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Mental Misstep

sideboard
3x chalice of the void
2x kira
2x llawan
1x dismember
2x submerge
2x hibernation
1x spell pierce
2x energy flux

How does this deck look?

I didn't really board for graveyard because cursecatcher, and other counters seems to be enough for dredge and reanimator. The counters i have is also enough.

What do you guys think? Or do you guys think there are too many overlapping cards

How are the hibernations performing? I guess these were included for the Maverick matchup? I am also contemplating if I should run them. Anyway, do you guys have any tips in the pre-board game against Maverick? It has been smashing me lately :(

[KobeBryan]

How are the hibernations performing? I guess these were included for the Maverick matchup? I am also contemplating if I should run them. Anyway, do you guys have any tips in the pre-board game against Maverick? It has been smashing me lately :(

haven't tested it yet. I will tell you tomorrow at after the tournament.

Manriki, only a one of, can be tutored with phantasmal image. That was just a suggestion. Not the greatest idea to beating the deck like a null rod v. affinity.


Going to a tournament tomorrow

how is this list


Creatures [22]
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept

Instants [13]
2 Dismember
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep


Artifacts [4]
4 Aether Vial

Lands [21]
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
13 Island


2 Kira
2 Submerge
2 Dismember
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Energy Flux
1 Tormod's crypt
2 Hibernation
2 spell pierce
1 threads of disloyalty

Do you think this is too much against Zoo and NO Rug decks?

[cheerios]

against zoo I'd put in the Kiras, submerges and relics, probably the threads as well. I'm not sure on how hibernation affects them

[KobeBryan]

Hibernation never came in today to be used.

What i really missed were 3 spell pierces.

I might even want to put a singleton spell snare

[SageShadows]

Played in a tournament today. Went 2-3 and lost to The Gate, Zoo, and Combo Elves while winning Junk and Aggro Loam (I know, go figure).

My decklist: -1 Daze, 2 Kira, 2 Dismember, 1 Island
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Cursed Totem, 3 Submerge, 2 Phyrexian Metamorph, 2 Relic of Progenitus, 2 Llawan, 2 Dismember

Too lazy to write a mini report, so thoughts of cards in general:
Kira is the real deal. If you want to play Merfolk in this current meta (and I think it's not that great), you need to have Kiras main.

Surgical Extraction feels so good when you get LftL. I had a game where I Extracted Innocent Blood, but I should have gotten Jitte, but it felt like it earned its keep. Same with Relics- definitely all purpose.

Biggest regret was cutting my Spell Pierces for 2 Llawans. I did it because I saw a lot of fish, but I really shouldn't have. Llawan is so narrow; spell pierces would have done a much better job.

Submerge is also an amazing card. Having 7 removal spells for those tough matchups can help you win.

Cursed Totem experiment was great. Totally shut down Junk, which has Qasali, Knights, and Stoneforges. I highly recommend at least 2.

Never got to play Phyrexian Metamorph. Starting to think that the Phantasmal Image route is far better. I have yet to axe off a Jitte with Metamorph.

Conclusions: If I were to change anything, I'd do -2 Llawan +2 Spell Pierce. Maybe -2 Metamorph, +2 Image

I just had stupid mistakes like not swinging with Mutavault. Looking back, those mistakes didn't cost me the game. I just got tough matches (Zoo and Combo Elves).

Question of the day:
Going against combo elves, he goes Turn 1: Llanowar elves. It's my turn now. I play a land and have dismember in hand. Do I kill it? Some people told me that the tempo helps against Elves, especially when they're starting to get off the floor, but the player himself said it was a bad play. Thoughts?

Also, I had another conversation with someone else that was interested in Chalice of the Void at X=1 in the SB. He said it'd stop most kill spells and Brainstorms while not being that much of a detriment (especially if you stick Vial turn 1). I'm not feeling it, but anyone else give it a shot yet?

[KobeBryan]

Played in a tournament today. Went 2-3 and lost to The Gate, Zoo, and Combo Elves while winning Junk and Aggro Loam (I know, go figure).

My decklist: -1 Daze, 2 Kira, 2 Dismember, 1 Island
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Cursed Totem, 3 Submerge, 2 Phyrexian Metamorph, 2 Relic of Progenitus, 2 Llawan, 2 Dismember

Too lazy to write a mini report, so thoughts of cards in general:
Kira is the real deal. If you want to play Merfolk in this current meta (and I think it's not that great), you need to have Kiras main.

Surgical Extraction feels so good when you get LftL. I had a game where I Extracted Innocent Blood, but I should have gotten Jitte, but it felt like it earned its keep. Same with Relics- definitely all purpose.

Biggest regret was cutting my Spell Pierces for 2 Llawans. I did it because I saw a lot of fish, but I really shouldn't have. Llawan is so narrow; spell pierces would have done a much better job.

Submerge is also an amazing card. Having 7 removal spells for those tough matchups can help you win.

Cursed Totem experiment was great. Totally shut down Junk, which has Qasali, Knights, and Stoneforges. I highly recommend at least 2.

Never got to play Phyrexian Metamorph. Starting to think that the Phantasmal Image route is far better. I have yet to axe off a Jitte with Metamorph.

Conclusions: If I were to change anything, I'd do -2 Llawan +2 Spell Pierce. Maybe -2 Metamorph, +2 Image

I just had stupid mistakes like not swinging with Mutavault. Looking back, those mistakes didn't cost me the game. I just got tough matches (Zoo and Combo Elves).

Question of the day:
Going against combo elves, he goes Turn 1: Llanowar elves. It's my turn now. I play a land and have dismember in hand. Do I kill it? Some people told me that the tempo helps against Elves, especially when they're starting to get off the floor, but the player himself said it was a bad play. Thoughts?

Also, I had another conversation with someone else that was interested in Chalice of the Void at X=1 in the SB. He said it'd stop most kill spells and Brainstorms while not being that much of a detriment (especially if you stick Vial turn 1). I'm not feeling it, but anyone else give it a shot yet?

We both went to the same tournament. I got spanked by stoneforge decks and a seismic assault loam deck. Went 2-3.

I would have won game 1 but i was sooo stupid in the morning, i took out my pierces for 2 jittes. Needed those in that matchup. Then I got spanked by SFM and batterskull.

I then boarded in 2 more dismembers and 2 submerges, totaling to 6 removals, but never drew then. Got spanked.

Llawan's are pathetic (good thing I didn't use them), hibernates are pathetic. I'm going to try curse totem like you suggested.


How did metamorph do for you? I played with phantasmal image, which did work quite nicely but never really a big threat. Did copy a cursecatcher for additioanl counters and a goyf a couple of times. Also, don't you find metamorph expensive to cast since it takes 4 mana?

1. Killing elf turn 1 is a good play. I would have done so too. Because turn 2, they would have 3 mana.

2. Chalice, I experimented, which actually comes in handy against zoo and combo decks. It fights for spell pierces' slots, but I havent been able to incorporate chalice in anything else aside from those two matchups.

Lastly, I'm getting really tired of Coralhelm commander. I need a guy that would come in as an instant boast (lord power). Coralhelm commander, I actually haven't leveled him up all day. When I did, it was more of a WIN MORE kinda deal.

[SageShadows]

We both went to the same tournament. I got spanked by stoneforge decks and a seismic assault loam deck. Went 2-3.

I would have won game 1 but i was sooo stupid in the morning, i took out my pierces for 2 jittes. Needed those in that matchup. Then I got spanked by SFM and batterskull.

I then boarded in 2 more dismembers and 2 submerges, totaling to 6 removals, but never drew then. Got spanked.

Llawan's are pathetic (good thing I didn't use them), hibernates are pathetic. I'm going to try curse totem like you suggested.


How did metamorph do for you? I played with phantasmal image, which did work quite nicely but never really a big threat. Did copy a cursecatcher for additioanl counters and a goyf a couple of times. Also, don't you find metamorph expensive to cast since it takes 4 mana?

1. Killing elf turn 1 is a good play. I would have done so too. Because turn 2, they would have 3 mana.

2. Chalice, I experimented, which actually comes in handy against zoo and combo decks. It fights for spell pierces' slots, but I havent been able to incorporate chalice in anything else aside from those two matchups.

Lastly, I'm getting really tired of Coralhelm commander. I need a guy that would come in as an instant boast (lord power). Coralhelm commander, I actually haven't leveled him up all day. When I did, it was more of a WIN MORE kinda deal.

I never did get to cast Metamorph. It wasn't really a vial issue; I just had actual lords to play and I guess 3 mana (I doubt one would actually play the phyrexian mana) and two life is too slow.

I would take out 1 or 2 coralhelms for Sovereigns. When you CAN level up Coralhelms, they're a stud. When you can't, they're suboptimal.

With my Tundras coming in next week, I'm moving over to the dark side. UW Stoneblade. :O

[KobeBryan]

I never did get to cast Metamorph. It wasn't really a vial issue; I just had actual lords to play and I guess 3 mana (I doubt one would actually play the phyrexian mana) and two life is too slow.

I would take out 1 or 2 coralhelms for Sovereigns. When you CAN level up Coralhelms, they're a stud. When you can't, they're suboptimal.

With my Tundras coming in next week, I'm moving over to the dark side. UW Stoneblade. :O

HAHAHAH i was thinking the same too. But instead of Tundras, I need cliques.

[Einherjer]

You cant leave Merfolk and join the evil boys.... Stoneblade is.... evil.... Dont!^^

Im working on a new. different way of merfolk list, ill present it to you once its teste troughout:P

[KobeBryan]

You cant leave Merfolk and join the evil boys.... Stoneblade is.... evil.... Dont!^^

Im working on a new. different way of merfolk list, ill present it to you once its teste troughout:P

Please. Any hints? I might want to try testing it against batterskull too.

[Einherjer]

Im going in a kinda new direction

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Silvergil Adept

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Dismember
which would make us 40 Cards.
and like 20 Islands....

Im testing this at the moment and it works out pretty nice. More like of a controlish build.
Dont judge me too hard, Ive just been working on it for a few days.
What you think? I know alot of Merfolks Power is its fast clock but I think nowadays we gotta play more controloish....

[KobeBryan]

Im going in a kinda new direction

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Silvergil Adept

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Daze
3 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Dismember
which would make us 42 Cards.
and like 20 Islands....

Im testing this at the moment and it works out pretty nice. More like of a controlish build.
Dont judge me too hard, Ive just been working on it for a few days.
What you think? I know alot of Merfolks Power is its fast clock but I think nowadays we gotta play more controloish....

I KNEW IT...up the spell snare to 4 and counter spell to 2. cuz you only have 20 lands and dazes.

[Einherjer]

Ye it actually might work out nice, the second approach is workingi with CounterTop :)

Ye youre right concerning Spell Snare and Counterspell.
Btw Spell Snare is a GODCOUNTER!

[KobeBryan]

Ye it actually might work out nice, the second approach is workingi with CounterTop :)

Ye youre right concerning Spell Snare and Counterspell.
Btw Spell Snare is a GODCOUNTER!

Or, maybe move 2 dismember to the board (since you have so many counters anyways), disregard the 2 counterspells and put in 4 standstills.

[Einherjer]

Not a bad thought aswell - As told - Im still working on it.... Another hint what i might be trying: Chrome Mox O.o

[KobeBryan]

Does anyone have any problems using Coralhelm Commander. I feel that 90% of the time, he is a stupid bear. And when I do level him up, I pretty much have the game under wraps.

[Einherjer]

Ye im feeling like this kinda often aswell. BUT there is no Lord of Atlantis V 1.2. So I think we gotta stick with him :/

[KobeBryan]

Ye im feeling like this kinda often aswell. BUT there is no Lord of Atlantis V 1.2. So I think we gotta stick with him :/

would you take him out for sovereigns. So far I took two out for two sovereigns. But I'm thinking about taking it all out for two sovereigns and phantasmals.

[chuck2657]

would you take him out for sovereigns. So far I took two out for two sovereigns. But I'm thinking about taking it all out for two sovereigns and phantasmals.

(assuming you're referring to LoA and not commander)

Sovereign is in the 3CC slot, LoA is the only lord that instantly applies his bonus at 2CC. He may be bad in the mirror, but it still smooths out the curve of the deck. Sovereign is nice because it is a lord, but I have generally found it is the worst lord of the bunch - which is why it is typically cut from most lists. It was run...but no longer.

[KobeBryan]

(assuming you're referring to LoA and not commander)

Sovereign is in the 3CC slot, LoA is the only lord that instantly applies his bonus at 2CC. He may be bad in the mirror, but it still smooths out the curve of the deck. Sovereign is nice because it is a lord, but I have generally found it is the worst lord of the bunch - which is why it is typically cut from most lists. It was run...but no longer.

no...referring to CC.

[dsck]

Played today @ local GPT Amsterdam (35 players). The meta had been dominated by Maverick/Rock past month(s). I had a feeling people would bring combo/control so Merfolk seemed good choice. I finished 3-3.

My list:
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Merrow Reejay
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Coralhelm Commander
3 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
3 Mutavault
1 Tower of Magistrate
4 Wasteland
13 Island

SB
2 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
2 Submerge
2 Cursed Totem
2 Standstill
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
3 Energy Flux


Match 1 Markku Heikkilä - NO RUG
G1 I win with timely Clique
G2 Despite my early Cursed Totem he takes control of the game
G3 I have the nuts
(2-1)

Match 2 Christian Tuuri - Elves combo
G1 I have option of vialing in Sower and taking his lord (surviving until next turn and winning by smashing 7 in the air or keeping it with the last card in my hand as force of will fodder. I decided I should take his lord, then he plays green pact for that green guy who draws cards equal to the number of green creatures you control, he combos soon after after drawing 7.
G2 I keep horrendous hand with Cursed Totem, I should have mulliganed.
(0-2)

Match 3 - UR Grindstone
G1 I mull to 5 and dont find an island, he beats me down with Painter's Servant and Goblin Welder
G2 He keeps one lander, I have 2 Wastelands
G3 He has Grindstone with Mental Misstep back up, then he intuitions, I daze. Then next turn he EOT intuitions again, I fow, he fows back, I spell pierce, he has just enough mana to pay
(1-2)

Match 4 - UW Standstill
G1 I Sower his Batterskull and smash in with fishes
G2 Awesome game, he barely wins with jitte'd mutavault
G3 I waste his white source and he cant find another, I also had quick beats
(2-1)

Match 5 - NO RUG
G1 Cant remember much, he almost stabilized but I think I Sowered his Goyf
G2 he has lots of hate and 2 goyfs
G3 He tries to go for fast jitte, I have Tower of Magistrate + Dismember. Luckily he didnt find Fire/ice and I beat him down with cursecatchers and adepts

Match 6 - BUG Deed with Visions
G1 I cant keep pressure after he gets fast Deed to stick, my hand was Sower + Phyrexian Metamorph. I also kept drawing missteps, fow, Reejerey etc always 1 turn late
G2 I mull to 6 and draw blanks. Misplaying adept didnt help, I could have just sit behind vial but I decided to hardcast it - he had Spell snare and answers to my last 2 creatures (didnt draw anything useful for rest of the game)
(0-2)

Total 3-3, Top 8 had 2 Merfolk (1 UB), 2 Hive Mind, Uw Standstill, BUG Control (to whom I lost), Elves combo (to whom I lost) and Team America.

[deviant]

I was the Ub player and the other one to get the byes (top2) was the other fish player in the top8.
Won elf combo, hive mind a few times, Uw and Uwr stoneblade decks, UBG visions-deed control and whatnot. Cannot actually remember. Went 4-0 into id-id. Deck was sweet. Actually considering it as a legit choice for GP.

[Krondo9]

Can you post your deck list? I am considering playing UB merfolk

[Krondo9]

Has anyone here actually lost to NO RUG? it seems like a pretty good matchup for merfolk. I've played both sides, and usually lose with NO RUG. If you've lost to it, how so?

[Einherjer]

Whats the strenght of UB? It cant just be Dismember can it?

[Asthereal]

Perish on side helps versus Maverick and Zoo (two VERY bad matchups).

The RUG NO matchups is loseable.
In testing Merfs lost sometimes when RUG NO sided out many counterspells and the combo for red blasts, Lavamancers and Jaces. But then the mu is still better for Merfs I reckon.

[gahxd]

Whats the strenght of UB? It cant just be Dismember can it?

Perish and sometimes Engineered Plague

[Schembo]

Can you post your deck list? I am considering playing UB merfolk

Deviants decklist

Final Split: Jori Hukka (Merfolk)
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
2 Island

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
1 Phantasmal Image
3 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejay
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
4 Mental Misstep
3 Daze
2 Dismember

Sideboard:
3 Persih
3 Submerge
3 Thoughtseize
2 Tower of Magistrate
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress

2nd place merfolks list can be found here

http://poromagia.com/index.php?page=viewarticle&articleid=70

[unemployer]

Nice list. What the tower of the Magistrate is for? I am new to this card.

[Deviruchi]

Nice list. What the tower of the Magistrate is for? I am new to this card.
It is a card used to fight Batterskull.

[dsck]

Whats the strenght of UB? It cant just be Dismember can it?

Perish and Thoughtseize.

[KobeBryan]

Perish and Thoughtseize.

if you go UB, why use Dismember. Just use GFTT

[Bryant Cook]

One mana vs. Two in a deck that taps out very frequently. Believe it or not, I play this deck.

[SpikeyMikey]

One mana vs. Two in a deck that taps out very frequently. Believe it or not, I play this deck.

Haha, I came in this thread only because I saw the last post was by Bryant Cook and I was like wtf does he have to say about the #1 anti-storm deck??? Funny stuff. I'll believe it when there's video on YouTube.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Haha, I came in this thread only because I saw the last post was by Bryant Cook and I was like wtf does he have to say about the #1 anti-storm deck??? Funny stuff. I'll believe it when there's video on YouTube.

I can do one worse. I play TES.

And Team America.

[deviant]

I can do one worse. I play TES.

And Team America.

And who are you again? I missed that one.

Anyway, one more reason to play Ub over mono u is having wastelands 5-8. So far i have used u sea as a waste to their waste 5 times more than i have gotten wasted when i didnt want to. Im also wasted atm but that is besides the point.

[NihilObstat]

Hello guys. I've played against Merfolks for years, but have only started playing them this month.

There's one thing that I just can't quite understand, and that's why is everyone still running 2 Jitte's in their sideboard. I've played 50 games and haven't sided them in not even once. What matchups would we want it against. It just seems too slow all the time, and for killing one specific creature, there's a much better "tempo" card - Dismember.

Can someone please enlighten me? Other than that, I'm falling in love with the deck. I always liked seeing it, but playing it is just sweet!

[KobeBryan]

Hello guys. I've played against Merfolks for years, but have only started playing them this month.

There's one thing that I just can't quite understand, and that's why is everyone still running 2 Jitte's in their sideboard. I've played 50 games and haven't sided them in not even once. What matchups would we want it against. It just seems too slow all the time, and for killing one specific creature, there's a much better "tempo" card - Dismember.

Can someone please enlighten me? Other than that, I'm falling in love with the deck. I always liked seeing it, but playing it is just sweet!

I also find Jitte underwhelming and never use it.

I rather have submerges over the jitte, the threads of loyalty over the jitte.

[crovakiet]

Hello guys. I've played against Merfolks for years, but have only started playing them this month.

There's one thing that I just can't quite understand, and that's why is everyone still running 2 Jitte's in their sideboard. I've played 50 games and haven't sided them in not even once. What matchups would we want it against. It just seems too slow all the time, and for killing one specific creature, there's a much better "tempo" card - Dismember.

Can someone please enlighten me? Other than that, I'm falling in love with the deck. I always liked seeing it, but playing it is just sweet!

Aggro tribal decks whose main toughness is 2 or less...such as Goblins, elves and other tribal decks. If you haven't sided them in, its probably because not many people play those decks anymore at the moment...

[sillysam71]

For the guy that wants to play Tower of the magistrate...the black germ token that batterskull creates is not an artifact, so unless I'm overlooking something, I'm assuming that you may have overlooked this aspect.

[Haakon]

tower of the magistrate is to be used in this way: you give protection from artifact to an attacking equipped creature -> the equip unattach

if that creature is a germ, it also dies

[Eldamion]

@Deviant

Why are you playing 4 Cursecatcher instead of 3, and not 4 Coralhelm Commander.

Some months ago, I played a UBW Merfolk list. Black in the board for Perish, white in the form of swords to plowshares main. Disember has changed so much, that white isn't needed any more for removel.

Any positive or negative mentions about your sideboard?
Maybe a little boarding plan, any help is welcome.

I like to attend to n gpt amsterdam tommorow ^^

[deviant]

I wanted to have more turn one plays. The format is quite fast atm. I also expected reasonable amount of Hive Mind and that seemed quite decent in that mu. Coralhelm seemed very mana intensive and is the kind of card you want to stick one of in a game as you cannnot really expect to level up many. He was good but I didnt really want a 4th one.

About the sb: perish was nuts in the one round I needed it, thoughtseizes were awesome sweetsauce. Towers were surprisingly good for such a bad and incest card. Between forces, dazes, seizes, dismembers and towers I was able to keep batterskull off the table quite well.

Sower, llawan and go for the throat were all kinda useless. I would have played a 2nd image in the board but wasnt able to find one.

I still would play 3 perish AND 3 submerges or what it's worth. Imo merfok has 2 major issues : It scoops to GW base decks and it scoops to the card batterskull. My sb and splash tried to address these issues.

Boarding plan I cannot provide you with as I just figured it out on the go. ( i only played like 6 games with a friend with his mono u fish list mostly for the kicks of it, never tested merfolk at all before the gpt )

GL for the gpt.




@Deviant

Why are you playing 4 Cursecatcher instead of 3, and not 4 Coralhelm Commander.

Some months ago, I played a UBW Merfolk list. Black in the board for Perish, white in the form of swords to plowshares main. Disember has changed so much, that white isn't needed any more for removel.

Any positive or negative mentions about your sideboard?
Maybe a little boarding plan, any help is welcome.

I like to attend to n gpt amsterdam tommorow ^^

[cheerios]

To those using Tower of the Magistrate, what do you guys usually remove during sideboarding? Do you guys remove lands or spells? I'm planning to add towers to my sideboard as well due to tricky stoneblade match up. Thanks!

[NihilObstat]

Aggro tribal decks whose main toughness is 2 or less...such as Goblins, elves and other tribal decks. If you haven't sided them in, its probably because not many people play those decks anymore at the moment...

That's what I meant. Goblins aren't being played that much, and I just swapped from Elves (long time) to Merfolks, because the current meta is kinda tough for the greeny forest dudes.

Should Merfolks consider taking Jitte out for something more meta active?

[SageShadows]

Regarding Coralhelm Commander: I find that 4 is overkill- it's usually a bear and is a waste of mana when they respond to your level ups with a bolt/other kill spell. I would cut 1 and it seems like the -1 Coralhelm +1 Image is great.

Regarding Jitte: It doesn't help anywhere, really. The Jitte'd creature will either get killed or Elves (the only effectual match up for Jitte) will just do cutesy tricks with Wirewood Symbiote.

[Eldamion]

Back from the gpt, wasn't my day :rolleyes:

Played the some 75 like deviant, just changed the go for the throat for an darkblast.

33 Players, 6 Rounds + Top8

Round1: BW Stoneblade
Game1:
We both start with vials, but he drews more creatures then me, butterskull finished me off.
Game2: Kira was the gamebreaker. Level 2 Coralhelm Commander n Kir fineshed him off, was a long game, Tower did his job excellent against Collar and Sofi ^^

Game3: My nutdraw: He kept an onle-lander, my hand has cursecatcher, waste, lord, rejeerey and daze. I killed him round 4 or 5 with 11 damage. Unfortunenately it was the one and only good draw for this day.

Round2: Affinity
Game1:Double Craniel Platting isn#t winable in my eyes.
Game2: We both had not the god draws. I was able to do some damage, in the end it was his Etched Champion who killed me due to my draw: Land, Vial, Land, land land.....

Round3: NO RUG
Game1: I can resolve an first turn Vial, with missteps on both sides. He can stablelize on 10 life and resolves an natutal order for progenitus. I had 7 out and drew very likely lord of atlantis. Unblockable while having islandwalk I could kill him with 11 damage. Nice but too lucky...

Game2: Maybe I kept a too risky hand, not sure. I can't remember to much, lost many life due to disember and he killed me off with double lavamancer (1st turn and second ^^)

Game 3: One card won hom this match, silvan library. Everything I tried was countered, burned oder something else. Even my Kira couldn't helped me. After that game I was soo tilt, not good, but human.


Round4: UW Stoneblade
Game1: Unspectacular game, some litte folks with a lord killed him.

Game 2: I can see an wrath on his hand turn 3. I have cursecather, so I am save till turn 5. He uses vendilion clique to have a look in my hand before he tries his wrath. I had lord an force. he took lord, i drew mutavault and had no chance to counter his spell. After thar I am able to force 2 more damage with mutavault protected be my tower against his mishra's. He drew jace, brainstormed, finds wasteland and killed me.

Game3: I have an starting seven with 3 cursecatcher, island, daze, daze, disember. Not a clear keep, but in my eyes fine. I played all my catcher which brings him down to 10. He then used path to exile one of them, fine for me to get an second land. He tries a jace with 4 mana, nice for my daze. Some folks later he scoops off.

Round5: Mono White Stoneblade
Game1: Batterskull.....

Game2: I kept an hand with double wasteland, vial, sower and rest. Never saw an island befor turn 8??. Had to use my vial up to 4, to get a mother of runes from him with my sower. I could stall the game a little bit but never came back against g/u sord, jitte etc.

Conclusion:
Jitte in the board can be a solution for some not tier1 decks like mono w or goblins. maybe also a weapon against lavamancer etc, if possible. LLawan and sower out of the board fpr 2 jitte. Or may the list UW is the way to go with white for swords and the stoneforge package?

Aggressiv muligans are the way to go. I had games without Adept, and never got any cardadvantage. And when our opponents can come easily to the midgame we have not done our job with small disruption.

Happily I can smile again today :cool:

[Pee-Dee-2]

I don't know if Uw Merfolk has been diskussed so far. I'm playing it for months and are verey pleased with it so far.
I'm not playing StoP, I cut them about a month ago. My way of Uw is, to fit Stoneforge Mystic, Equipments and some SB cards into this deck.

In the Sb I play cards like absolute Law (again every red Decks and thing like punishing fire) and Meddling Mages again Kombodecks (very strong with Aether Vial, if you don't board them out).

So as I'm playing the stoneforge things, I play Metamorph over Image. Often, I have to have 2 Batterskulls on the battlefeald to defeat the one my opponent have.

Does anyone also play a Uw version?

[KobeBryan]

I don't know if Uw Merfolk has been diskussed so far. I'm playing it for months and are verey pleased with it so far.
I'm not playing StoP, I cut them about a month ago. My way of Uw is, to fit Stoneforge Mystic, Equipments and some SB cards into this deck.

In the Sb I play cards like absolute Law (again every red Decks and thing like punishing fire) and Meddling Mages again Kombodecks (very strong with Aether Vial, if you don't board them out).

So as I'm playing the stoneforge things, I play Metamorph over Image. Often, I have to have 2 Batterskulls on the battlefeald to defeat the one my opponent have.

Does anyone also play a Uw version?

I'm trying to test a UW version but using Swords to plowshares instead of dismembers. I kind of like it. I also improved on the artifact hate that this deck has by using disenchant. I'm thinking maybe serenity but thats kinda slow.

So far, I was able to play around stompy with chalice for 1. Haven't tested too much as of yet, but I kinda like it.

I think Path to exile might be better than Plows since i don't have to give them life when i'm racing. I'm not too sure on this yet.

[KobeBryan]

I don't know if Uw Merfolk has been diskussed so far. I'm playing it for months and are verey pleased with it so far.
I'm not playing StoP, I cut them about a month ago. My way of Uw is, to fit Stoneforge Mystic, Equipments and some SB cards into this deck.

In the Sb I play cards like absolute Law (again every red Decks and thing like punishing fire) and Meddling Mages again Kombodecks (very strong with Aether Vial, if you don't board them out).

So as I'm playing the stoneforge things, I play Metamorph over Image. Often, I have to have 2 Batterskulls on the battlefeald to defeat the one my opponent have.

Does anyone also play a Uw version?

I'm trying to test a UW version but using Swords to plowshares instead of dismembers. I kind of like it. I also improved on the artifact hate that this deck has by using disenchant. I'm thinking maybe serenity but thats kinda slow.

So far, I was able to play around stompy with chalice for 1 and blood moon. Its not hard to play around when you have 2 islands in play. The phantasmal images were key since it only takes 1 blue to get over that annoying blood moon hate. Haven't tested too much as of yet, but I kinda like it.

I think Path to exile might be better than Plows since i don't have to give them life when i'm racing. I'm not too sure on this yet.

[dsck]

Splashing white for PtE in a deck that uses daze + wasteland + cursecatcher.

Wow.

[DragoFireheart]

Splashing white for PtE in a deck that uses daze + wasteland + cursecatcher.

Wow.

Not much more fail than that. Almost as bad as countering Daze with Spell Snare.

[KobeBryan]

Not much more fail than that. Almost as bad as countering Daze with Spell Snare.

i understand the PTE, but what is wrong with countering a daze with a spell snare?

[igri_is_a_bk]

i understand the PTE, but what is wrong with countering a daze with a spell snare?

You can pay the :1: instead of wasting the Snare :laugh:

[KobeBryan]

You can pay the :1: instead of wasting the Snare :laugh:

oh duh. wasn't thinking about the mana cost. assumed it was 2

[NihilObstat]

oh duh. wasn't thinking about the mana cost. assumed it was 2

Hehehehe, OMG, I love MTG!!! :-)

[Einherjer]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

probably 2 spell pierces and something.

My board is much better now. I don't have to worry too much about stupid stoneblade decks.

But back to elves and goblins, which I would need Sword of plowshares for. Maybe cursed totem and some hibernations in the board and that "all creatures you control gets protection from red"

[crovakiet]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

If anything, there should be a debate now for whether Standstill is worth putting back in. Mental Misstep on a Vial pretty much made Standstill relatively worthless as putting a Standstill on the third turn or later was not nearly as powerful as one on the 2nd turn with a threat out(Vial or otherwise). Now one of Merfolk's most powerful play(s) is back considering Misstep is gone.

[vinvin]

First of all, I'd like to say hi to you people as this is my first time posting here. :smile:
*Although I'm not unfamiliar with the forum as I frequently read the posts and topics*

I'm fairly new in playing merfolk. (Used to play BW discard and still playing zoo)
^ thus I need some revelations from the pros here :tongue:

I did some readings through this thread, but reading the whole 277 pages would definitely be devastating. :frown:

Some questions: (again, sorry if my questions was discussed somewhere in the thread, like page ** or page 1**, honestly I didn't read it that much)

1. Which kind of opening hand is a keeper and which is not ?

2. Gameplay strategies AND sideboarding strategies for vsing specific decks:
a. Aggro elf
b. GWx maverick
c. Zoo
d. UWx stoneblade
e. TA
f. BW stoneblade

3. I have access to UG sea, do you think it's worth it to splash black for perish and thoughtseize, or even Dark Confidant ? >>> http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=2007&d=214230 (there's an aggro elf player and GW maverick player in my meta and I'm always having trouble getting paired with them)

4. (added) HOLY CRAP MM IS BANNED o.O

Sorry if I have sooo many questions. Cheeeeers mate :cool:

[Lemnear]

@Avatar of Shadow
now I understand your position to ban misstep being able to counter that life-card spell pierce xP


Back to topic: I doubt standstill is needed. Pierce will be much more important with Past in Flames TES and snapcaster powered SpiralTide

[RainbowPenguin]

Mental Misstep is gone.

What are we gonna do with the new slots?

Greetings

Lots of stuff. Thats the beauty of this banning, suddenly all kinds of decks get four free open slots (well, sorta). Welcome to diversity. Welcome to legacy.

Some possibilites: 16 lord merfolk. Spell pierce. Stifle. Standstill. splash for (more) removal. A little extra of everything. Actual choice probably going to depend on your meta.

[jdsnider187]

This list is based solely on theory and not at all on playtesting, but I did play Merfolk (and play it well, mind you) for almost two years before switching to Stoneblade.

My post-bannings Fish list:

Mainboard:

Creatures: (25)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejery
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner

Spells: (14)
4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce

Lands: (21)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
5 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Perish/Nature's Ruin
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Misdirection
3 Dismember
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Hydroblast

Engineered Plague may be necessary for the SB of the Ub version if Goblins make a large resurgence, which it most certainly will considering that for some reason people still love that deck.

Another option is to splash red with Volcanic Island and run Grim Lavamancers main deck over Phantasmal Image with REB/Pyroblast and Lightning Bolt in the sideboard if necessary. While I like the idea of the red splash in this deck i don't feel as though there are enough ways to fill your graveyard (other than relying on your opponent to kill your creatures) in order to fuel the Lavamancer, which would be the main reason to include the red splash in the first place.

I've seen a lot of talk about running a Uw version with Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile and just to tell you right now, in a deck that relies heavily on the combination of Daze, Spell Pierce, and Wasteland in order to outmaneuver the opponent, you DO NOT want to be running PtE. StP however, while a great removal spell, simply gives your opponent life which equates to more time to find a way to wipe your board. Merfolk is looking to end the game as quickly as possible in before the opponent can stabilize, and while the life loss from Dismember does hurt, it fits the goal of the deck much better and doesn't give your opponent and extra draw step like StP often will. Playing white in the deck however does give some good SB answers for many decks, such as Meddling Mage for Combo decks and Disenchant effects for Stoneblade and Countertop/Thopter if that deck decides to come back and drop a Moat in front of your fish, as well as being an answer for their namesake combos.

If you decide to stick to the Mono U version of this deck however, I am almost 95% sure that you'll want at least 2 if not 3 copies of Back to Basics in your Sideboard for decks like Zoo, Aggro Loam, Team America, and NO RUG, as well as Lands (if it happens to make a comeback).

I feel as though with Goblins and Zoo both being more viable now, due to misstep's banning, that Standstill is TOO SLOW for the format and that you'll never really have a lot of good chances to stick it when the board is in your favor. Stifle is also not something that I would really want to run in the deck anymore either (though that fad passed a long while ago).

I think Merfolk's standby of play dudes, protect said dudes, and islandwalk all over the control decks is where you really want to be maindeck now with many people attempting to bring Counterbalance back and with Stoneblade still being a strong deck choice (yes, even without misstep).

[RainbowPenguin]

Regarding Lavamancer, filling you graveyard is not the only problem. Just keeping a source of red mana in play in a format full of wastelands is going to be difficult at times.

I played 'Folk for a while before switching to stoneblade too, but if I go back, I think Stifle would be one of the first things I would try out again. Something like this:

Mainboard:

Creatures: (23)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejery
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner

Spells: (16)
4 Æther Vial
1 Dismember
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle

Lands: (21)
13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce (or perhaps 2 + 1 Daze)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dismember
2 Submerge
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3 Null Rod (I never liked the affinity matchup)

Stifle isn't just for fetchlands, it is pretty good against goblins, and it should be good against stoneforge mystic too. I can't say I am sure that it is better than the go for the throat approach, but I like having options, and stifle provides that.

[Einherjer]

. Actual choice probably going to depend on your meta.

If my meta is: Maverick, BW Stoneblade, CounterTop, HighTide, Junk, GOblins, Aluren, Stiflenought, Affinity and Dredge? What would you think?
Ill be working on my new list NOW - so when i come back ill post this list *Leaving to table now* :P

Greetings

[KobeBryan]

The beauty of this ban is that now I can REALLY splash white and go an all out utility board with enlightened tutor.

[KobeBryan]

This is what i came up with. The core of fish remains the same, but the sideboard cards help improve the matchups we have done very poorly against, ie. lots of elves, goblins, and zoo.



Lands (21)
5 Island
4 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
3 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
2 marshflat
1 Plains

Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Coralhelm Commander
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Phantasmal Image

Counters
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce

Other
4 AEther Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares


Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 tormod's crypt
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Submerge
1 Ghostly Prison
1 null rod
1 Cursed Totem
1 Chill

I'm not too sure on the surgical extractions. I might actually take it out and use 1. Tormod's crypt, and another card. Any suggestions would help.

[RainbowPenguin]

I believe the following should be considered, for all practical purposes, mandatory in Merfolk:

Lands:
12-13 Island, either basic or dual, or fetches that get them. Perhaps more. I don't think I would ever go below 13 myself.
4 Mutavault. Extra manlands can be added.
4 Wasteland.

Creatures:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander

Others:
4 Æther Vial
3-4 Force of Will
3-4 Daze
(3-4 MM would be here too, except, well..)

The rest are more debateable, but until actual upgrades to these cards are printed, if they don't cut it, merfolk (the deck) probably isn't good enough. So please don't go below these numbers.

[KobeBryan]

I believe the following should be considered, for all practical purposes, mandatory in Merfolk:

Lands:
12-13 Island, either basic or dual, or fetches that get them. Perhaps more. I don't think I would ever go below 13 myself.
4 Mutavault. Extra manlands can be added.
4 Wasteland.

Creatures:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander

Others:
4 Æther Vial
3-4 Force of Will
3-4 Daze
(3-4 MM would be here too, except, well..)

The rest are more debateable, but until actual upgrades to these cards are printed, if they don't cut it, merfolk (the deck) probably isn't good enough. So please don't go below these numbers.

I have to disagree that you don't need 4 coralhelms. He is a 3 of. He is not an instant lord and usually eats up your mana.

[Einherjer]

I was thinking of Vedalken Shackles for lategame option, when you cant get trough the wall of creatures the enemy build up...
What ya think of it?

[RainbowPenguin]

I have to disagree that you don't need 4 coralhelms. He is a 3 of. He is not an instant lord and usually eats up your mana.


.. And when he does, he gets Awesome. Regarding your sideboard, give it a try, see if it gets there. I think it makes you too reliant on access to white mana, since if you tutor for a white card, your opponent will know that, and likely waste or port your white source if possible. 7 white sources also seems far too low. At least switch a few more basic islands for fetches.

[RainbowPenguin]

If my meta is: Maverick, BW Stoneblade, CounterTop, HighTide, Junk, GOblins, Aluren, Stiflenought, Affinity and Dredge? What would you think?
Ill be working on my new list NOW - so when i come back ill post this list *Leaving to table now* :P

Greetings

The easy ones should be CounterTop, High Tide, Aluren (probably, I have never played against that deck though) and Stiflenought. Dredge needs 3-4 hate cards, depending on your maindeck, perhaps more if the dredge player is good. A resolved stoneforge mystic out of a deck that cannot be islandwalked is going to be problematic, so a splash for removal or else running 2-3 Dismember might be a good idea. It will be nice to have some removal against goblins, too. Affinity, if they have a good draw, can be very difficult to handle, but that is probably best adressed with sideboard cards, such as null rod or energy flux.

[KobeBryan]

.. And when he does, he gets Awesome. Regarding your sideboard, give it a try, see if it gets there. I think it makes you too reliant on access to white mana, since if you tutor for a white card, your opponent will know that, and likely waste or port your white source if possible. 7 white sources also seems far too low. At least switch a few more basic islands for fetches.

Never said he wasn't awesome. But the rule is a 4 of means you want it in your opening hand. 3 of means you want to see it in the game, and so forth.

When I do have coralhelm commander in my opening hand, I tend to not cast it because 1. I can do better things on turns 1-4, such as dropping vial, dropping curse catcher, dropping LOA, dropping phatasmal image, dropping a merrow, dropping silvergill.

So coralhelm really gets good at the mid range game, when I can draw him at a 3 of.

Your argument, you can vial him in at turn 2 and pump him up at your turn. The problem with that is, again, I rather not care for a 3/3 flyer, but rather drop another silver gill, or a LOA on that turn.

[Curby]

Back when there wasn't room in the deck for Kira due to MM, I was thinking of 4 Image 4 Coralhelm 2 Reejerey to keep my Vial at 2 as much as possible. Now that Kira is going back to help against the un-Misstep-able StP and other cheap removal, Vial at 3 becomes more viable, so I'm thinking of adding Reejery at the expense of Coralhelm again.

Note that the loss of MM also means that we'll be replacing it with cards that most likely cost mana, which is addition strain on our mana supply. In short, the ability to pump Coralhelm will now be less certain, which once again makes Reejerey a better bet.

[Julian23]

Never said he wasn't awesome. But the rule is a 4 of means you want it in your opening hand. 3 of means you want to see it in the game, and so forth.

[...]

Your argument, you can vial him in at turn 2 and pump him up at your turn. The problem with that is, again, I rather not care for a 3/3 flyer, but rather drop another silver gill, or a LOA on that turn.

While a good rule of thumb for most decks, this doesn't apply to Merfolk. It's a deck of high redundancy with practially zero draw/selection.
Regarding 3 or 4 CC, I advise to stick to four. Merfolk got such a huge boost out of Commander's printing and shouldn't fail to take full advantage of it. In most matchups, playing additional Silvergils or Lords early on is the better choice but Commander's power is second to none in this deck once the game goes beyond turn 4. Up until then, we haven't seen enough cards to justify only running it as a 3 drop. Just swarming the opponent will usually only work against Combo and Commander provides the long-needed final "punch" Merfolk had always been missing before it was printed.

[KobeBryan]

While a good rule of thumb for most decks, this doesn't apply to Merfolk. It's a deck of high redundancy with practially zero draw/selection.
Regarding 3 or 4 CC, I advise to stick to four. Merfolk got such a huge boost out of Commander's printing and shouldn't fail to take full advantage of it. In most matchups, playing additional Silvergils or Lords early on is the better choice but Commander's power is second to none in this deck once the game goes beyond turn 4. Up until then, we haven't seen enough cards to justify only running it as a 3 drop. Just swarming the opponent will usually only work against Combo and Commander provides the long-needed final "punch" Merfolk had always been missing before it was printed.

I understand about your swarming tactic with commander. To me, it seems you ALSO leave commander unleveled until late game. At two mana, with phantasmal image, I can get instant lord boosts for my other guys to swarm. Thats why I took the CC out for a phantasmal

[NihilObstat]

Note that the loss of MM also means that we'll be replacing it with cards that most likely cost mana, which is addition strain on our mana supply. In short, the ability to pump Coralhelm will now be less certain

I msut agree that Coralhelm was unarguably a must x4, while we had a deck that ran:
Lands
Vials
Merfolks
11 Mana-less Counterspells

For some months we've been able to spend all our mana on pumping him without a sweat, but now we'll have to replace MM for a mana spell, and that'll force us to keep mana open at the end of turn. Thus, making pumping considerably slower. Still, I believe him to be the best single merfolk winning an incredible amount of games by himself, and I'll keep 4 of him, but we'll have to pay with another mentality.

My idea to test to replace the MM spots would be with 1 Daze, 3 Dismember (I kinda specially fear Lavamancer now, and Lackey will come back) and/or 3 Stifle (since we're gonna be a bit slower, why not slow the opponent and gain some unexpected tricks in the process?).

Would you guys consider Gut Shot maindeckable? It kills Vendillion, Spellstutter, Lavamancer, Dryad, Hierarch, MofRunes, Lackey, Confidant, Elves, Scryb Sprite, Peacekeeper, etc, without tapping a single land nor losing lives. This would just be an idea to keep our deck as fast as possible, by freely killing the earliest threats on the board, slowing the opponent down or disrupting his game plan.

Although for only 1 mana more we have Dismember, which can take down a wider spectrum of the meta-game. Anyway I think that this little red dude could be Dismember 5-6 if need be.

[chuck2657]

I msut agree that Coralhelm was unarguably a must x4, while we had a deck that ran:
Lands
Vials
Merfolks
11 Mana-less Counterspells

For some months we've been able to spend all our mana on pumping him without a sweat, but now we'll have to replace MM for a mana spell, and that'll force us to keep mana open at the end of turn. Thus, making pumping considerably slower. Still, I believe him to be the best single merfolk winning an incredible amount of games by himself, and I'll keep 4 of him, but we'll have to pay with another mentality.

My idea to test to replace the MM spots would be with 2 Dismember (I kinda specially fear Lavamancer now, and Lackey will come back) and 2 Stifle (since we're gonna be a bit slower, why not slow the opponent and gain some unexpected tricks in the process?).

Would you guys consider Gut Shot maindeckable? It kills Vendillion, Spellstutter, Lavamancer, Dryad, Hierarch, MofRunes, Lackey, Confidant, Elves, Scryb Sprite, Peacekeeper, etc, without tapping a single land nor losing lives. This would just be an idea to keep our deck as fast as possible, by freely killing the earliest threats on the board, slowing the opponent down or disrupting his game plan.

Although for only 1 mana more we have Dismember, which can take down a wider spectrum of the meta-game. Anyway I think that this little red dude could be Dismember 5-6 if need be.

Gut Shot certainly has a wide range of applications, but it is still dead to fast Zoo (that isn't running lavamancer) and most combo - although besides zoo it does help merfolk's poorest matchups. Your list highlights quite a few of the 'must deal with' creatures though. Perhaps it would be good out of the board? Even though most combo matches are favorable, I'm hesitant to put a card in that will be dead in certain MUs.

I think most people are running 2 MB dismembers (with the 3rd often in the side)...without MM I could see that jumping to 3.

[NihilObstat]

It is still dead to most combo. Even though most combo matches are favorable, I'm hesitant to put a card in that will be dead in certain MUs. I think most people are running 2 MD dismembers (with the 3rd often in the side)...without MM I could see that jumping to 3.

I'm just kidding here, but it is less dead than Dismember against Combo MUs since you can use it to take 1 Life from the opponent while Dismember only targets creatures ^^

[chags]

I wouldn't mind giving gutshot consideration in the main with dismember in the sb. While dismember is certainly the more useful of the two, against a deck like goblins not using my mana and not losing 4 life seems far more important. I might test 2 gutshot main and see how I feel. The enlightened tutor sb lists look interesting but I don't think I want to have to rely that heavily on my white sources...also needs testing.

[KobeBryan]

Tried splashing white. Tested last night. It still does not really solve the problem when a batterskull drops on the table.

That guy is brutal. The swords to plowshares did help out a lot more than eating 4 life from dismember all the time.

What i've noticed is that post MM, the deck does not seem to have enough counters. The counters we have in hand must be treated like precious metal, especially the free ones. Only use it when you see something you can't stop, ie. batterskull.

[Einherjer]

What about...

20 Lands

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Phantasmal Image

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 DIsmember

a straight 4of deck.

What ya think of it?

[KobeBryan]

What about...

20 Lands

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Phantasmal Image

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 DIsmember

a straight 4of deck.

What ya think of it?

Problem is that you will keep dazing, leading to a lower land count on board. This makes it difficult to level up coralhelm commander. Additionally, you won't have enough counters to fight combo decks.

and 4 dismembers, ouch. Are you trying to give away your game to zoo?

[Einherjer]

I dont have zoo in my meta :) And ill have 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Surgical Extraction in Side for Storm.
What would your monobluelist look like?

[Curby]

Zoo's going to be on an upswing, so I wouldn't run Merfolk without Kira in the main. I'd take out some combination of Reejerey, Coralhelm, and Image for 2. If Kira eats two removal spells, that's two Merfolk who survive. Just as importantly, it gives you time to bring out enough Lords to get everyone out of bolt range. Hell, I might even run three (one in the side).

EDIT: Ninja-ed. If you aren't gonna face a lot of point removal, then I guess Kira's less important. This is why it's important to describe your meta when offering up a list. =)

[KobeBryan]

I dont have zoo in my meta :) And ill have 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Surgical Extraction in Side for Storm.
What would your monobluelist look like?

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
3 Coralhelm Commander
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 DIsmember (or 2 dismembers and up a phantasmal)
3 spell pierce

board
3 submerges
2 llawan
1 dismember

10 of whatever your meta asks for (probably throw in another spell pierce)

[KobeBryan]

Zoo's going to be on an upswing, so I wouldn't run Merfolk without Kira in the main. I'd take out some combination of Reejerey, Coralhelm, and Image for 2. If Kira eats two removal spells, that's two Merfolk who survive. Just as importantly, it gives you time to bring out enough Lords to get everyone out of bolt range. Hell, I might even run three (one in the side).

EDIT: Ninja-ed. If you aren't gonna face a lot of point removal, then I guess Kira's less important. This is why it's important to describe your meta when offering up a list. =)

Kira is not a three of...she gets annoying later.

[Curby]

I admit I need to test more. I've only recently gotten all the cards to complete it (horrible timing, I know). That said, the reason I threw it out there is because my meta has a ton of point removal, and I expect Kira will be a lightning rod for it. I get what you're saying though, re: Legendary.

I like your list, but am undecided on the exact numbers of Reejerey/Commander/Image.

[KobeBryan]

I admit I need to test more. I've only recently gotten all the cards to complete it (horrible timing, I know). That said, the reason I threw it out there is because my meta has a ton of point removal, and I expect Kira will be a lightning rod for it. I get what you're saying though, re: Legendary.

I like your list, but am undecided on the exact numbers of Reejerey/Commander/Image.

Thanks.

On another note, I'm kinda worried to take my UW merfolk to a local tournament this weekened. i wonder how wastelands will affect my lands.

[cheerios]

Since everybody is sharing their post mm merfolk builds, I'll post mine. Criticism is very welcome!

4 mutavault
4 wasteland
12 island

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Dismember
2 spell pierce

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merfolk Sovereign / Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

SB:
1 Kira
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dismember
1 or 2 Gut Shot
3 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Hydroblast

[KobeBryan]

Since everybody is sharing their post mm merfolk builds, I'll post mine. Criticism is very welcome!

4 mutavault
4 wasteland
12 island

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Dismember
2 spell pierce

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merfolk Sovereign / Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

SB:
1 Kira
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dismember
1 or 2 Gut Shot
3 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Hydroblast

You can't be serious wasting a percrious sideboard slot for 1 gut shot. The one-of is so low, its not gonna matter when it counts...ie. the opposing players opening play with bob, noble, bird, any stupid 1 drops.

[cheerios]

You can't be serious wasting a percrious sideboard slot for 1 gut shot. The one-of is so low, its not gonna matter when it counts...ie. the opposing players opening play with bob, noble, bird, any stupid 1 drops.

hahaha. I was just planning to test it. I might change it to another hydroblast or something else. I'm pretty scared of zoo again now that misstep is gone.

[straca3]

Here is my postban list

// Lands
3 [R] Underground Sea
3 [US] Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [CHP] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [A] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [M10] Merfolk Sovereign

// Spells
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus


I decided to add black, cause of Engineered Plague, without MM Goblins and Elves are going to see more play. The maindeck I think, it is pretty good, I wanted as much creatures as possible.

I am not sure about the third Kira in the board, I have it there before the bannings cause of the NO RUG matchup, where she really shine, I am not sure if NO RUG will see as much play as did before ban. I am considering cutting it and putting 3rd Dismember there, what do you guys think?

[cheerios]

Here is my postban list

// Lands
3 [R] Underground Sea
3 [US] Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [CHP] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [A] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [M10] Merfolk Sovereign

// Spells
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus


I decided to add black, cause of Engineered Plague, without MM Goblins and Elves are going to see more play. The maindeck I think, it is pretty good, I wanted as much creatures as possible.

I am not sure about the third Kira in the board, I have it there before the bannings cause of the NO RUG matchup, where she really shine, I am not sure if NO RUG will see as much play as did before ban. I am considering cutting it and putting 3rd Dismember there, what do you guys think?

As someone who has a third Kira on the board, I'll say keep it up. It's there for zoo and control decks who bring in more spot removal post board. But it all boils down to your local meta.

[KobeBryan]

Here is my postban list

// Lands
3 [R] Underground Sea
3 [US] Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [CHP] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [A] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [M10] Merfolk Sovereign

// Spells
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus


I decided to add black, cause of Engineered Plague, without MM Goblins and Elves are going to see more play. The maindeck I think, it is pretty good, I wanted as much creatures as possible.

I am not sure about the third Kira in the board, I have it there before the bannings cause of the NO RUG matchup, where she really shine, I am not sure if NO RUG will see as much play as did before ban. I am considering cutting it and putting 3rd Dismember there, what do you guys think?

What I learned from splashign another color is that you have to drop 1 mutavault and go to 3 and add another fetchland with a blue source. Having 8 colorless sources is too much and you will not have enough to cast your LOA and coralhelm commander.

[straca3]

What I learned from splashign another color is that you have to drop 1 mutavault and go to 3 and add another fetchland with a blue source. Having 8 colorless sources is too much and you will not have enough to cast your LOA and coralhelm commander.

I played UB Folks like year with this manabase and its really ok, I wouldnt cut Mutavault EVER! Plus now when you dont have to care about MM, Vial is ussualy going to resolve, so we dont have to care about the double blue.

[KobeBryan]

I played UB Folks like year with this manabase and its really ok, I wouldnt cut Mutavault EVER! Plus now when you dont have to care about MM, Vial is ussualy going to resolve, so we dont have to care about the double blue.

True, Problem is, I have had opening hands of 1 vial, 1 wasteland, 1 mutavault, silvergil, LOA, and cursecatcher.

do you keep this hand? Chances are no because you cannot drop 2 things on turn 2. But with one blue source, this hand is playable.

[RainbowPenguin]

True, Problem is, I have had opening hands of 1 vial, 1 wasteland, 1 mutavault, silvergil, LOA, and cursecatcher.

do you keep this hand? Chances are no because you cannot drop 2 things on turn 2. But with one blue source, this hand is playable.

You could have had that hand with the monoblue version too. Mutavault is just too good to run only as a 3-of.

Fortunately, there are other options to solve dilemmas like these: Cut a spell for an extra coloured source, or just, you know, mulligan sometimes.

EDIT: Over the last few pages, people have debated wether to run 4 coralhelm commander OR 4 Reejerey. The answer is almost definitely run both. I see people wanting to run less than 20 actual merfolk, and honestly, that just seems far too loose, too. This is a tribal deck. You need a certain number of merfolk to make Silvergill Adept consistent, and you need a certain number of lords for them to be good.

[straca3]

True, Problem is, I have had opening hands of 1 vial, 1 wasteland, 1 mutavault, silvergil, LOA, and cursecatcher.

do you keep this hand? Chances are no because you cannot drop 2 things on turn 2. But with one blue source, this hand is playable.

I would keep this hand on play against unknown opponent. If he doesnt play blue, its nuts and if he does he has to have FoW and still you can rip Island and win the game.

[Curby]

@Penguin, correction: in order to keep Silvergill consistent, you need a Merfolk to reveal or an Aether Vial at 2. The fewer Reejerey you run, the more likely you can keep the Vial at 2 because you'll have fewer reasons to tick it to 3. Ultimately, I want to run Coralhelms, Reejereys, and Images, and they all have upsides and downsides. At this point, I'm kind of thinking three of each. For the purposes of Adept, I'll have 22 cards including Merfolk and Vials. For the purposes of Tribal strength, I'll have 25 cards including Images and Mutavaults.

[NihilObstat]

You can't be serious wasting a percrious sideboard slot for 1 gut shot. The one-of is so low, its not gonna matter when it counts...ie. the opposing players opening play with bob, noble, bird, any stupid 1 drops.

Tournament Name: StarCityGames.com Legacy Open - Atlanta
Number of Players: 249
Position: 2
Merfolks
Phillip Lorren

Sideboard
1 Gut Shot



Maybe it's not doing that bad... ^^


http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6807&iddeck=49414

[SlopeeJ]

The point still stands and is valid. 1ofs are pretty bad esp without card draw, but I would say it has to do with the 3 dismembers for 4 creature removal or 7 with the submerges. Still seems like 2 shot -1 of the other one would be better

[KobeBryan]

Tournament Name: StarCityGames.com Legacy Open - Atlanta
Number of Players: 249
Position: 2
Merfolks
Phillip Lorren

Sideboard
1 Gut Shot



Maybe it's not doing that bad... ^^


http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6807&iddeck=49414

He may have it in there, but is there a report of how useful the card was. Hell, I can put beast from within without splashing green in my deck. And by chance I win, it doesn't mean i used it.

[chags]

He may have it in there, but is there a report of how useful the card was. Hell, I can put beast from within without splashing green in my deck. And by chance I win, it doesn't mean i used it.

"Phillip Lorren · Snellville, Georgia
Thanks for the props, bud. Gut Shot was good for me all day, killing multiple lavamancers and drawing a force out of an opponent's hand in a tight race situation. I can only dream that my phrase "it's like a fifth mental misstep" will catch on."

That qoute is the first comment from Drew Levin's article: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/22776_Building_A_Legacy_Choose_Your_Weapon.html

I personally am trying it as a 1 of md and potentially testing it as a 2 of md or some combo of 2 in the 75.

[dsck]

I actually watched him (Phillip Lorren) play on scglive vs NO RUG with Lavamancer and he used Gutshot on it, the commentators were laughing their arses off.

[chuck2657]

The point still stands and is valid. 1ofs are pretty bad esp without card draw, but I would say it has to do with the 3 dismembers for 4 creature removal or 7 with the submerges. Still seems like 2 shot -1 of the other one would be better

Assuming you aren't running searches, the opportunity cost of running an additional card in the board is one slot, and the marginal benefit is the access to that one card. This is obviously affected if cards become better the more you draw, or become worse. In the end though, you're still giving up 1, 2, or 3 slots to have access to 1, 2, or 3 cards.

The case can be made that if a card is good enough to warrant one SB spot, it is good enough to warrant 2 or 3. This is the reason why SBs aren't all 1-ofs, and are mostly 2-4. A second (or third) relic or spell pierce gives more marginal benefit than the other choices. Still, however, there is nothing inherently inefficient or ineffective about running a singleton in your board. If 14 cards provide a clear advantage over all other choices, and the 15th choice (which happens to be a singleton) provides less benefit then the first 14 (yet more benefit than the other candidates) then the best course would be to run the 15th slot as a singleton. Taking out one of the first 14 cards (which all provided a greater benefit than the 15th) simply so you aren't running a singleton would not make sense.

[chuck2657]

double post

[deviant]

There is also the question of "drawing live". I played one llawan in my gpt sb just because I only had 14 cards i wanted and needed and didnt want to go through the trouble of finding adwarven pony to put there. I figured this card lets me draw live in one mu, in an otherwise already lost situation.

Other examples would be one damnation in UB fae in past extended, one md stifle in merfolk, or just randomly tossing a leyline of the void in your sb, just so there IS a chance you WILL open it against GY decks.

Besides, agaisnt competent opponents it is beneficiary to have slightly different cards with same funcion to make it harder to sufficiently play around them. I.e. I would take disrupt, spell pierce, miscalculation and cancel over 4 mana leaks in UW stoneblade mirror f.e.

[Curby]

I've never heard of the term "Drawing Live". Do you have a link to an article/post that coined the term?

Anyway, I agree with the idea that something useful, even if a totally random singleton, is better than not having that at all. I'm sure the Llawan would have helped more than Dwarven Pony, though I would have used a Bear Cub.

[Sansian]

@previous guy: It would be the effective opposite of "drawing dead"; by logical extension. One would assume.

Additional bit:

How does everyone feel about Phantasmal image at 3? Is that too many?

[chuck2657]

I've never heard of the term "Drawing Live". Do you have a link to an article/post that coined the term?

Anyway, I agree with the idea that something useful, even if a totally random singleton, is better than not having that at all. I'm sure the Llawan would have helped more than Dwarven Pony, though I would have used a Bear Cub.

Drawing live normally refers to games that are in a bad position, but can be won (or at least not lost) by drawing an 'out' you have in your deck. It tends to refer to either answers (ie needing to deal with progenitus or something similar) or to 'oops i win cards' - in the example llawan empress against fish.

[Curby]

Yeah, I guess I've never heard of that term. Seems like there's yet another way to refer to mising, lucksacking, topdecking like a champ, etc. =)

Re: Images, I've been running 3 and know of people who run 4. Helps keep your vial at 2 when you remove Reejeries and Sovereigns.

[Einherjer]

I would never remove Reejeries, but ofc Sovereigns

[Magic_Shortbus9]

is there a spot for Sower of Temptation? really good with keira:tongue:

Proper capitalization is required. Use it. -zilla

[dsck]

is there a spot for Sower of Temptation? really good with keira:tongue:

CMC 4 is not nice. New meta doesnt seem that attractive for it either (lots of combo now that misstep is gone).

[Curby]

Plus, how many such creatures are you running? You can't easily pull off a 2-card combo running only two of each. You'd be lucky to see it once every few rounds. I know the cards are somewhat useful by themselves, but I think Kira alone would be better for the deck.

[Magic_Shortbus9]

CMC 4 is not nice. New meta doesnt seem that attractive for it either (lots of combo now that misstep is gone).

Plus, how many such creatures are you running? You can't easily pull off a 2-card combo running only two of each. You'd be lucky to see it once every few rounds. I know the cards are somewhat useful by themselves, but I think Kira alone would be better for the deck.

I just remember seeing Alex B. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=38055 running both to some top 8's before MM was printed but the meta is in constant shift so u could b right. only time will tell. how about that llist with Phantasmal Image in place of sovereign. merfolk is my pet deck as i dont have alot of money to build multiple decks so i have that and elf combo.

[deviant]

Seems fine by me.
Besides, if the first sower sticks, your phantasmals are going to be making you really proud of yourself.

Just try to make sure you dont run too many situational cards with the excuse of "it pitches to fow if it doesnt do anything".

[Magic_Shortbus9]

Since everybody is sharing their post mm merfolk builds, I'll post mine. Criticism is very welcome!

4 mutavault
4 wasteland
12 island

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Dismember
2 spell pierce

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merfolk Sovereign / Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

SB:
1 Kira
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dismember
1 or 2 Gut Shot
3 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Hydroblast
hey saw this list looks solid but just wondering what the Vendillion Clique is for and if its worth consideration? thanks
:tongue:

[chags]

I run almost the same list as that but have been using 1 mishra's factory and 1 more island in the spots where you have phantasmal image/sovereign. I've been feeling like I've been getting flooded a lot though so I may try phantasmal images there. My SB is pretty different, I run:
2 Back to Basics
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gut Shot
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember

[KobeBryan]

Would you guys replace spell pierce with spell snare?

or how about spell pierces for stifles?

I'm thinking spell snares help against those stupid mystics deck A LOT and goyfs too.

I've actally found that spell pierces to be lackluster after playing it. When I draw it, I never use it. It seems I might have enough counters with the 4 cursecatchers plus the images.

Since I splash white, dealing with combo with ethersworn and null rod doesn't seem too much of a problem.

The stifles might acutlaly help me save some lands from being wastelanded.

What do you guys think?

[chags]

Would you guys replace spell pierce with spell snare?

or how about spell pierces for stifles?

I'm thinking spell snares help against those stupid mystics deck A LOT and goyfs too.

I've actally found that spell pierces to be lackluster after playing it. When I draw it, I never use it. It seems I might have enough counters with the 4 cursecatchers plus the images.

Since I splash white, dealing with combo with ethersworn and null rod doesn't seem too much of a problem.

The stifles might acutlaly help me save some lands from being wastelanded.

What do you guys think?

Spellsnare could be worth a look depending on how the meta shapes up, but it seems that spell pierce is "live" more often then spellsnare is. I would be willing to try it but only after I saw some tournament results and knew the meta was particularly 2 cmc heavy. I'm not sure stifle does what we need it to, protecting our own lands from wasteland seems very mediocre. If anything its best application would be along side wasteland as mana denial to make our dazes more effective. I don't think stifle counters nearly enough of the things we want to be countering in a typical a game to see play right now.

[deviant]

I can tell you some things of the future meta:
snapcaster mage will be played
tarmogoyf will be played
stoneforge mystic will be played
some people will even play fire and ice
storm will still play infernals and burning wishes
silvergill adept can be played from your hand also
dark confidant is not banned atm
defense grid is a good sb card against us
jitte is also decent

Proper capitalization and punctuation are required when posting here. Please use them in the future. -zilla


So in other words, yea I can see playing spell snare. It might even resolve once in a while with misstep gone.

[cheerios]

hey saw this list looks solid but just wondering what the Vendillion Clique is for and if its worth consideration? thanks
:tongue:

Thanks shortbus. It's supposed to be for stoneforge decks and combo decks, particulary tide. The lack of misstep left us with only force of will as a hard counter. I was hoping clique could shore up the defense against tide. I haven't tested it tho, been busy with work the whole week.

[cheerios]

I run almost the same list as that but have been using 1 mishra's factory and 1 more island in the spots where you have phantasmal image/sovereign. I've been feeling like I've been getting flooded a lot though so I may try phantasmal images there. My SB is pretty different, I run:
2 Back to Basics
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gut Shot
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember

How has Back to Basics been performing?

[NihilObstat]

Guys, I'm testing for a 300+ tournament on the same day that Misstep goes away. It's taking place in Spain where there have been some decently big tournaments this months, with this meta:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6848
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6759
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6694
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6668

As you can see Team America and Dredge seem to be some of the most popular strategies, and I really haven't tested much against them. No one seems to play T.Am. online :-/


So fearing these strategies and probably an amazing pop-up of combo decks that same day, I came up with this list:

Maindeck
4x Vial
4x Coralhelm
4x Cursecatcher
4x Atlantis
4x Merrow
2x Image
4x Silvergil

4x Daze
2x Dismemeber
4x Force of Will
3x Spell pierce

13x Island
4x Mutavault
4x Wasteland

Sideboard
2x Pithing Needle / Cursed Totem
3x Tormod's crypt
2x Umezawa's jitte
2x Kira, great glass-spinner
2x Llawan, cephalid empress
1x Dismember
2x Echoing truth
1x Gut shot

So this list, would be in detriment against the aggro pairings to do better against combo/control.

Ideas, thoughts, welcome. Would you guys split the grave-hate? 3 Spell pierce MD enough against Team A.?

[KobeBryan]

Guys, I'm testing for a 300+ tournament on the same day that Misstep goes away. It's taking place in Spain where there have been some decently big tournaments this months, with this meta:

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6848
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6759
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6694
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6668

As you can see Team America and Dredge seem to be some of the most popular strategies, and I really haven't tested much against them. No one seems to play T.Am. online :-/


So fearing these strategies and probably an amazing pop-up of combo decks that same day, I came up with this list:

Maindeck
4x Vial
4x Coralhelm
4x Cursecatcher
4x Atlantis
4x Merrow
2x Image
4x Silvergil

4x Daze
2x Dismemeber
4x Force of Will
3x Spell pierce

13x Island
4x Mutavault
4x Wasteland

Sideboard
2x Pithing Needle / Cursed Totem
3x Tormod's crypt
2x Umezawa's jitte
2x Kira, great glass-spinner
2x Llawan, cephalid empress
1x Dismember
2x Echoing truth
1x Gut shot

So this list, would be in detriment against the aggro pairings to do better against combo/control.

Ideas, thoughts, welcome. Would you guys split the grave-hate? 3 Spell pierce MD enough against Team A.?

really. I saw 3 team americas yesterday.

team america cannot beat you anyways once you get vial in

but if they drop a dead in you are dead. Which leads me to believe that running stifles might be better than spell pierces

[Magic_Shortbus9]

Thanks shortbus. It's supposed to be for stoneforge decks and combo decks, particulary tide. The lack of misstep left us with only force of will as a hard counter. I was hoping clique could shore up the defense against tide. I haven't tested it tho, been busy with work the whole week.

thanks for the reply. seems like a good idea and test worthy. i had seen it in SB awhile ago

Proper capitalization is required on these boards. Please use it in the future. -zilla

[Curby]

Sigh, why gut shot? Just because someone used it to hilarious effect once? Stifles and pithing needles would be great against things like Deed. Gut Shot not so much. For that matter, it doesn't seem good against TA nor combo nor Dredge.

I'd recommend replacing a Reejerey with a third Image. It helps keep Vial at 2 and the downside is hardly a downside against TA's removal ... Anything they target your guys with will kill them anyway.

The TA primer says (said?) that the Merfolk matchup is slightly unfavorable ... How does Merfolk fare against more modern builds of TA, aside from the Vial/Deed comments above?

[NihilObstat]

Alright, that sounds relaxing. I just hadn't face even 1 TA so I was concerned, but anyway MM is going away that same day so I just realized that maybe there won't be so many TAs.

Gut shot is really good and as a 1 of it's never annoying, but it's not a secure side spot anyway, might finally go away.

Maybe 3x Spell pierce MD is too much? What would you guys play? Zoo might be coming back after MM, so what would you guys like to see MD against it?

[cheerios]

Alright, that sounds relaxing. I just hadn't face even 1 TA so I was concerned, but anyway MM is going away that same day so I just realized that maybe there won't be so many TAs.

Gut shot is really good and as a 1 of it's never annoying, but it's not a secure side spot anyway, might finally go away.

Maybe 3x Spell pierce MD is too much? What would you guys play? Zoo might be coming back after MM, so what would you guys like to see MD against it?

I'd say you need some MD Kiras against Zoo. It protects our dudes, and it has to be two for oned to be killed.

[KobeBryan]

Sigh, why gut shot? Just because someone used it to hilarious effect once? Stifles and pithing needles would be great against things like Deed. Gut Shot not so much. For that matter, it doesn't seem good against TA nor combo nor Dredge.

I'd recommend replacing a Reejerey with a third Image. It helps keep Vial at 2 and the downside is hardly a downside against TA's removal ... Anything they target your guys with will kill them anyway.

The TA primer says (said?) that the Merfolk matchup is slightly unfavorable ... How does Merfolk fare against more modern builds of TA, aside from the Vial/Deed comments above?

I actually tried playing more Images over reejeeray. The problem is that you cannot show a merfolk with silvergils.

[Curby]

I know that you need to reveal when hardcasting, but between Vials and all the other Merfolk, 3 Images should still be ok. Hell, some folks run four. I'll do more testing to see what happens though.

[KobeBryan]

I know that you need to reveal when hardcasting, but between Vials and all the other Merfolk, 3 Images should still be ok. Hell, some folks run four. I'll do more testing to see what happens though.

I'm finding spell pierces to be very very useless. I haven't countered anything thus far.

Do you think we should take the 3 spell pierces out for standstills?

[Bignasty197]

I'm finding spell pierces to be very very useless. I haven't countered anything thus far.

Do you think we should take the 3 spell pierces out for standstills?

I've been running Spell Snare in that slot and liked them so far.

[Curby]

I was thinking of running Standstill. I got a lot of combo in my meta, and drawing into more gas would be nice.

[KobeBryan]

I was thinking of running Standstill. I got a lot of combo in my meta, and drawing into more gas would be nice.

Over the 3 spell pierces?

[KobeBryan]

I was thinking of running Standstill. I got a lot of combo in my meta, and drawing into more gas would be nice.

Over the 3 spell pierces?

[Curby]

Merfolk
60 cards, 15 sideboard
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
20 lands


4 Cursecatcher
3 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Merrow Reejerey
22 creatures


4 AEther Vial
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
3 Standstill
4 Force of Will
18 other spells


Sideboard
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Dismember
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Blue Elemental Blast
15 sideboard cards

That's what's there now, the numbers of Reejerey/Image/Coralhelm are up in the air right now.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I'm really not so sure about all this talk of going to less than 4 Reejereys. Using his trigger to alpha strike for the win or to untap and cheat extra fish into play has just happened too often for me to want to do that.

As far as the empty slots that Misstep leaves, I'm not 100% sure that putting more counters there is actually the way to go. Spell Snare seems decent, but I'm not sure I'd want to commit that many spaces to it in the maindeck (I'd feel like 3 copies would be pushing it), and it doesn't seem like a sideboard card. Spell Pierce just seems dead against a few decks, although I'm actually a pretty big fan of this in the sideboard. I think increasing threat density might actually be the way to go, since one of the most important things about MMS, in my mind, was that it gave us a potential 12 free counterspells that we could run. The fact is that leaving mana open tends to suck in this deck more often than not. If it didn't seem likely that Zoo would gain from Misstep being banned, I'd advocate Standstill, but I don't feel like this is the call right now. Honestly, I think some combination of Kira/ Image/ Sovereign is probably the best way to spend our "open slots" these days, in a relatively unknown meta. Seeing as combo and Zoo both stand to gain, it seems valid to just try to be as aggro as possible, and diversify the sideboard to the matches that you're most afraid of.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I'm really not so sure about all this talk of going to less than 4 Reejereys. Using his trigger to alpha strike for the win or to untap and cheat extra fish into play has just happened too often for me to want to do that.

As far as the empty slots that Misstep leaves, I'm not 100% sure that putting more counters there is actually the way to go. Spell Snare seems decent, but I'm not sure I'd want to commit that many spaces to it in the maindeck (I'd feel like 3 copies would be pushing it), and it doesn't seem like a sideboard card. Spell Pierce just seems dead against a few decks, although I'm actually a pretty big fan of this in the sideboard. I think increasing threat density might actually be the way to go, since one of the most important things about MMS, in my mind, was that it gave us a potential 12 free counterspells that we could run. The fact is that leaving mana open tends to suck in this deck more often than not. If it didn't seem likely that Zoo would gain from Misstep being banned, I'd advocate Standstill, but I don't feel like this is the call right now. Honestly, I think some combination of Kira/ Image/ Sovereign is probably the best way to spend our "open slots" these days, in a relatively unknown meta. Seeing as combo and Zoo both stand to gain, it seems valid to just try to be as aggro as possible, and diversify the sideboard to the matches that you're most afraid of.

[Purgatory]

In that list, I think I'd go 4 Reejerey, 4 Coralhelm, 2 Image. Reejerey is too good not to play as a 4-of, even though you might not want to tick your Vial to 3, just casting him is worth it. He is probably the best lord in some match-ups, obviously superior to LoA in all games against non-blue decks.

Coralhelm is also the best creature in some match-ups, and he is by far the best fish to top-deck late-game. Image is neither of this, he is a copy of either other fish, but he is a horrible topdeck compared to either (or at least he has been in my testing).

Also, I don't think Standstill is that good right now, the amount of fast aggro decks means it's often a dead draw. Dismember probably deserves some slots in MD as well.

[Curby]

The reasoning for my list was separated from the list itself, so some of the choices may seem strange. To reiterate and expand, there's a ton of combo and Reanimator in my meta, and little to no Zoo. Hence the many Images to copy Legends, and Standstill go draw into more stuff. In short, this is a metagame-influenced list.

I'm not sure that Reejerey is superior to LoA even vs nonBlue, since LoA simply costs less. The ability to tap/untap arbitrary permanents is obviously useful, but we can't make use of it when Vialing in 'folk, which is what we want to do the vast majority of the time. Reejerey might in fact be better, but it's definitely not "obvious" to me at least. Plus, many people do play blue.

[KobeBryan]

Lands (20)
3 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 misty rainforest


Creatures (22)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Coralhelm Commander
3 Phantasmal Image

Counters (8)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Enchantment (3)
3 standstill

Other (7)
4 AEther Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares


Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Submerge
1 Ghostly Prison
1 null rod
2 hibernation
1 spell pierce

How do you guys think of this list?

Do you think its enough lands? I dropped the kiras since I'm basically punting the zoo matchup. No matter what you do, its not a good fight. pre or post board.

[Curby]

I proposed a white splash with small tutor box over on mtgs, but was convinced to run mono blue. I'd probably play Propaganda over Prison. Sure you might get Red Elemental Blasted, but you also might have your white source wasted.

Especially since you're playing Standstill, try to keep the Vial at 2. This means more Coralhelm/Image and less Reejerey.

[KobeBryan]

I proposed a white splash with small tutor box over on mtgs, but was convinced to run mono blue. I'd probably play Propaganda over Prison. Sure you might get Red Elemental Blasted, but you also might have your white source wasted.

Especially since you're playing Standstill, try to keep the Vial at 2. This means more Coralhelm/Image and less Reejerey.

eh...the deck i play prison for would be dredge. Not Zoo. I have so many cards boarding in against zoo i have no space for it. Using 2 hibernation, 2 submerge, 1 swords to plowshares.

What did you use for the tutored board. Still getting spanked by batterskull no matter what.


I can't think of my last 3 sideboard slots. Please help.

Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 path to exile
1 null rod
2 hibernation
1 absolute law

[Magic_Shortbus9]

eh...the deck i play prison for would be dredge. Not Zoo. I have so many cards boarding in against zoo i have no space for it. Using 2 hibernation, 2 submerge, 1 swords to plowshares.

What did you use for the tutored board. Still getting spanked by batterskull no matter what.


I can't think of my last 3 sideboard slots. Please help.

Sideboard
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 path to exile
1 null rod
2 hibernation
1 absolute law

ive seen people use Tower of Magistrate for batterskull. Give the Germ(an) pro artifacts and it dies then just repeat to what ever the equip it to. It looks like most people agree on 2 in the board.

[KobeBryan]

ive seen people use Tower of Magistrate for batterskull. Give the Germ(an) pro artifacts and it dies then just repeat to what ever the equip it to. It looks like most people agree on 2 in the board.

it comes in equipped. How does it work?

[Curby]

Protection removes relevant attached Auras and Equipment.

[KobeBryan]

Protection removes relevant attached Auras and Equipment.

I understand now. But two towers isn't going to improve our matchup against blade control anyways.

On another note, Have you guys played against these two new decks, UWR blade control and Blue zoo. These two decks are NASTY.

[bakofried]

I don't know; the two towers may be relevant. It's an uncounterable method of permanently turning off Batterskull and being randomly good against Affinity and MUD (if that's even a deck anymore)

Also, Spell pierces as a 3 or a 4 of maindeck look pretty good right now. Lots of combo running around, most of which Pierce is awesome against.

[Kanadell~]

Hi guys! I have an Open Legacy in my city this saturday, and I have some questions about this deck cause I want to take Merfolk there.

First of all, with the banning of Mental Misstep, the mana curve will probably rise... Which is the optimum number of lands to play? I'm between 20-21 (With 3 wastelands and 4 mutavault) but I don't know exactly how many lands I should put in.

Secondly, what cards are the best to put in the 4 slots that Misstep has opened? My metagame is full of Zoo, Burn and all this aggro stuff and I thought that Kira could be useful, but what do u guys recomend me?

Finally, I'd like to say that I've tested with 2-3 Spell pierce MD and they have been useless most of games I played, so I decided to put them on SB. What can I put on these slots? And is Phantasmal Image that good? I mean, what if I have no lords on the battlefield to copy? It's almost a dead card and I can't use it to cast Silvergill...

Thanks!

[straca3]

Hi guys! I have an Open Legacy in my city this saturday, and I have some questions about this deck cause I want to take Merfolk there.

First of all, with the banning of Mental Misstep, the mana curve will probably rise... Which is the optimum number of lands to play? I'm between 20-21 (With 3 wastelands and 4 mutavault) but I don't know exactly how many lands I should put in.

Secondly, what cards are the best to put in the 4 slots that Misstep has opened? My metagame is full of Zoo, Burn and all this aggro stuff and I thought that Kira could be useful, but what do u guys recomend me?

Finally, I'd like to say that I've tested with 2-3 Spell pierce MD and they have been useless most of games I played, so I decided to put them on SB. What can I put on these slots? And is Phantasmal Image that good? I mean, what if I have no lords on the battlefield to copy? It's almost a dead card and I can't use it to cast Silvergill...

Thanks!


Never play less than 4 Wastelands!! 21 lands should be optimal, 13 + 4 + 4.
Kira is great, you should definitely try that, I would play 2 MD and 1 in sideboard.
I also find out that Pierces MD arent great as you did, but I would play at least 3 (probably 4) in sideboard.

I would like to try Vendilion Clique in the deck, it seems pretty great, cycling useless Vials/Dazes in lategame while pressuring your opponent, or on otherside taking his Wrath of God or something like that.
What do you guys think?

[Curby]

I'm running 20 land, but am sometimes tempted to add a 21st. I'm running Standstill in the main though, which should help me draw into more.

Despite Image's downsides with Reejerey and Adept, I still run a full set. You can copy stuff on the other side of the field too. Useful vs opposing Legends, copy Cursecatcher against combo, etc.

[Kanadell~]

Never play less than 4 Wastelands!! 21 lands should be optimal, 13 + 4 + 4.
Kira is great, you should definitely try that, I would play 2 MD and 1 in sideboard.
I also find out that Pierces MD arent great as you did, but I would play at least 3 (probably 4) in sideboard.

I would like to try Vendilion Clique in the deck, it seems pretty great, cycling useless Vials/Dazes in lategame while pressuring your opponent, or on otherside taking his Wrath of God or something like that.
What do you guys think?

The problem is that i don't have the 4th Wasteland, but I'll try to get it. And in my opinion, Vendillion Clique deserves at least to be tested since as you said can take away perilous cards on the opponent's hand, and casting vendilion in response of the activation of Stoneforge's ability is awesome.

[KobeBryan]

I decided to ditch the tutor board, because when I board, I have to board in 4 cards at a minimum to use the tutor board effectively.

This is the new board

2 spell pierces
2 relics of prog
1 tormod's crypt
1 ethersworn cannonist
1 chalice of the void
1 energy flux
3 disenchant
2 hibernation
2 path to exile
1 swords to plowshares

Any suggestions might help.

In my main, I am using 3 reejery, 3 images, 3 standstills and 3 swords to plowshares.

[Kanadell~]

And the white splash works well for you? And btw why do you play "only" 3 reejerey? Maybe you could try with -1 Phantasmal Image +1 Reejerey?

[KobeBryan]

And the white splash works well for you? And btw why do you play "only" 3 reejerey? Maybe you could try with -1 Phantasmal Image +1 Reejerey?

What has been wonderful. Of course you run into opposing wastelands. But the white board and the white removals are much stronger than what I had before (dismember).

I'm using standstills in the MD thats why i'm using more images than reejerey because I can keep the vial ticker at 2.

But i'm starting to change this perspective. Maybe move the reejerey to 4 and drop the coralhelm to 3. Replace the 3 standstills with stifles. Standstills have been pretty lackluster for me. Haven't really held the game on its own. Its usually the first cards I board out.

The stifles would actually help protect my tundras as well. So maybe I might go into that direction.

I also have 2 spell pierces in the board. i might change those up with vendilion cliques.

[trivial_matters]

Merfolk is tap-out deck. Hence for example your counterspells are all free. I don't thing leaving mana open for Stifle is in accordance with your game plan. This coming from my observations; I don't actually play the deck, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Players certainly do play it as a decisionless tap out deck but I don't think that's the correct way. Leaving a single mana open can happen just from lack of spells to play, but even if you decide to not throw out a Cursecatcher to save mana for a Stifle it in many cases is the right play. Later on you can use unneeded Reejery triggers to untap a single island. Delaying your game for one turn to stop an opponent from cracking fetches is actually a very valid strategy, seeing as Aether Vial and just a low curve in general can let you play more threats off fewer lands than opponents do.

Also remember you don't need to Stifle the first fetchland. Stifling the 3rd fetch can be equally (or greater, if they were planning to fetch their 3rd color off of their final fetchland) devastating as hitting the 1st. But delaying the opponent's lands is just one of the things Stifle can do. If you're mid-late game you might just save yourself from Deeds ruining your day.

I've been using Stifle in merfolk for literally years and it is just as powerful now as it ever was. It wins games outright.

[cheerios]

Talking about stifle, what is the correct number of stifles to play now? I'm considering putting 3 on the sb. Or is 4 a must due to merfolk's lack of card manipulation?

[KobeBryan]

Talking about stifle, what is the correct number of stifles to play now? I'm considering putting 3 on the sb. Or is 4 a must due to merfolk's lack of card manipulation?

3 in the Main. maybe 1 in the board.

[cheerios]

3 in the Main. maybe 1 in the board.

Thanks, I will try that.

[Magic_Shortbus9]

http://www.blackborder.com/q/node/13377
Good article on legacy, has a mono blue merfolk list with so interesting card choices. Has spreading seas been tried in legacy? I know i played it in an extended folk deck and was good it turns on LoA can shut out opponent of a specific color since it turns it into an island and draws a card. Just a thought defiantly would need testing.

[KobeBryan]

http://www.blackborder.com/q/node/13377
Good article on legacy, has a mono blue merfolk list with so interesting card choices. Has spreading seas been tried in legacy? I know i played it in an extended folk deck and was good it turns on LoA can shut out opponent of a specific color since it turns it into an island and draws a card. Just a thought defiantly would need testing.

Not really. In this meta, not running 4 cursecatchers will cost you the game MANY times. I'd drop a coralhelm or a reejery before a cursecatcher.

He does have a very very good point with the clique. But I think I'll play that as a sideboard card and use stifles main.

[Kanadell~]

http://www.blackborder.com/q/node/13377
Good article on legacy, has a mono blue merfolk list with so interesting card choices. Has spreading seas been tried in legacy? I know i played it in an extended folk deck and was good it turns on LoA can shut out opponent of a specific color since it turns it into an island and draws a card. Just a thought defiantly would need testing.

In most metagames, Cursecatcher is the best way you have to delay opponent's threats or combo pieces, I won't play less than 4. And about Spreading Seas it's not the rol you want to play, because if the opponent plays blue is 2 mana for drawing a card and vs other decks, if you don't have a LoA (and it doesn't get StP'ed) is useless to. I think it doesn't fit in the deck at all.

[Magic_Shortbus9]

Not really. In this meta, not running 4 cursecatchers will cost you the game MANY times. I'd drop a coralhelm or a reejery before a cursecatcher.

He does have a very very good point with the clique. But I think I'll play that as a sideboard card and use stifles main.


In most metagames, Cursecatcher is the best way you have to delay opponent's threats or combo pieces, I won't play less than 4. And about Spreading Seas it's not the rol you want to play, because if the opponent plays blue is 2 mana for drawing a card and vs other decks, if you don't have a LoA (and it doesn't get StP'ed) is useless to. I think it doesn't fit in the deck at all.

Thanks for the constructive input it was just a thought i didn't think it was worth a slot. Just getting discussion of cards can go a long way in improving a deck or sparking conversation of other choices.

[lordofthepit]

What has been wonderful. Of course you run into opposing wastelands. But the white board and the white removals are much stronger than what I had before (dismember).

What ain't no color I ever heard of. Say "what" again!

[JJ_JKidd]

So whats the solution to (recurring) Snapcaster + removals MD?

[DrHealex]

KIRA! and umm... MORE DUDES!
The U/B snapcaster builds are FAR easier to deal with than the U/W ones, mostly due to batterskulls though.

New tech vs that deck, vial in JAILER in response, muwhahaah.

[JJ_JKidd]

KIRA! and umm... MORE DUDES!
The U/B snapcaster builds are FAR easier to deal with than the U/W ones, mostly due to batterskulls though.

New tech vs that deck, vial in JAILER in response, muwhahaah.

Jailer? I think it affects those with flashback and not those that Snapcaster can recur, correct me of im wrong?

[FANAttIC]

Few months ago I lost in the finals of 33 people tournament against maverick. Sea and Volcanic for my troubles.
Yesterday I lost in semifinals against combo elves (Volcanic, Delta, Top and t-shirt) with 37 people.
Been playing folk since Cursecatcher got printed. I have all the cards that could get md slots (all 150+ :)) but it is so hard to find the right combination.
No wonder this topic got to so many pages.

I waste so much time thinking about flex slots, even more than for sideboard.
Stifle and Standstill were not my favorites so far, instead Dismember and Spell snare got some play time (I really hate Goyf, Confidant, Snapcaster and Mystic).
3 slots were needed for Image so Kira left maindeck.

Today, my list is:

13 Island
4 Waste
4 Muta
1 Factory

19 usual guys (-1 Cursecatcher cause I think he is just necessary evil)
3 Image

4 Vial
4 FoW
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
2 Dismember

I expected a lot of reanimator, ant, junk, uw blade, goblins and burn so for that tournament sideboard was this:

2 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Kira
1 Gut Shot (aka HEAD SHOT!, loved that card, killed Arbor after he spent Zenith on it and Scryb Ranger that was very annoying in maverick and few confidants, cliques and lavamancers on the way)
2 Submerge

I was thinking about splashes, mostly black, to lower the pain from dismember and for darkblast to shoot annoying dudes (perish and plague maybe), which there are a lot of in legacy. For now its just a thought.

[Kanadell~]

Few months ago I lost in the finals of 33 people tournament against maverick. Sea and Volcanic for my troubles.
Yesterday I lost in semifinals against combo elves (Volcanic, Delta, Top and t-shirt) with 37 people.
Been playing folk since Cursecatcher got printed. I have all the cards that could get md slots (all 150+ :)) but it is so hard to find the right combination.
No wonder this topic got to so many pages.

I waste so much time thinking about flex slots, even more than for sideboard.
Stifle and Standstill were not my favorites so far, instead Dismember and Spell snare got some play time (I really hate Goyf, Confidant, Snapcaster and Mystic).
3 slots were needed for Image so Kira left maindeck.

Today, my list is:

13 Island
4 Waste
4 Muta
1 Factory

19 usual guys (-1 Cursecatcher cause I think he is just necessary evil)
3 Image

4 Vial
4 FoW
3 Daze
3 Spell Snare
2 Dismember

I expected a lot of reanimator, ant, junk, uw blade, goblins and burn so for that tournament sideboard was this:

2 Spell Pierce
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Kira
1 Gut Shot (aka HEAD SHOT!, loved that card, killed Arbor after he spent Zenith on it and Scryb Ranger that was very annoying in maverick and few confidants, cliques and lavamancers on the way)
2 Submerge

I was thinking about splashes, mostly black, to lower the pain from dismember and for darkblast to shoot annoying dudes (perish and plague maybe), which there are a lot of in legacy. For now its just a thought.

And with 22 lands works well for you? Don't get flooded too often? And why 1 mishra's instead of another island? Having only 1 island in the opening 7 is annoying if there's a LoA or Coralhelm there.
More questions... It's worth cutting a cursecatcher to add 1 phantasmal image? And why only 1 Gut shot in the SB?

[KobeBryan]

And with 22 lands works well for you? Don't get flooded too often? And why 1 mishra's instead of another island? Having only 1 island in the opening 7 is annoying if there's a LoA or Coralhelm there.
More questions... It's worth cutting a cursecatcher to add 1 phantasmal image? And why only 1 Gut shot in the SB?

Gut shot is such a stupid tech. Just because one person had it in the SB in one tournament, everyone is jumping to use it.

[FANAttIC]

Well, since the "norm" is 21 lands with 13 Islands, adding non Island won't hurt me more than anybody else who plays the deck for colored mana purposes, I guess.
Flooding may occur but I noticed less mulligans, need untapped mana for Spell snare, Coralhelm is hungry and factory is just another dude who frequently dies (and I like randomly pumping Mutavault against unaware people).
It is always tempting to cut lands for "business" but after I saw jund playing 27 lands in standard and never regret that decision, having always something to do with its mana (attacking with ravine when hand is depleted) and certain Alex B had most success with 22 land, I look at mana bases differently.
Img/Catcher question: yes, so far it is worth it (6 matches of swiss, played only vs one combo - high tide, Catchers where golden there; combo elves in semifinal couldn't care less for him), I enjoyed chaining Adepts and "Adepts". Is it the right decision? Don't know.
I never played with Gut Shot before so that is the reason (and lack of space) for one copy.

[KobeBryan]

Well, since the "norm" is 21 lands with 13 Islands, adding non Island won't hurt me more than anybody else who plays the deck for colored mana purposes, I guess.
Flooding may occur but I noticed less mulligans, need untapped mana for Spell snare, Coralhelm is hungry and factory is just another dude who frequently dies (and I like randomly pumping Mutavault against unaware people).
It is always tempting to cut lands for "business" but after I saw jund playing 27 lands in standard and never regret that decision, having always something to do with its mana (attacking with ravine when hand is depleted) and certain Alex B had most success with 22 land, I look at mana bases differently.
Img/Catcher question: yes, so far it is worth it (6 matches of swiss, played only vs one combo - high tide, Catchers where golden there; combo elves in semifinal couldn't care less for him), I enjoyed chaining Adepts and "Adepts". Is it the right decision? Don't know.
I never played with Gut Shot before so that is the reason (and lack of space) for one copy.

Jund plays 27 lands because their curve is like at 3-4, with spells at 5.

Merfolk has no where near 4 casting cost. At 5, the spell is free, 4, there is no card, 3 there is 4 cards, and everythign else is 1-2.

[Kanadell~]

What happens me too often is that I have a good hand with dudes and stuff but I only have 1 island and no vial/silvergill to draw, and I have tu mulligan. I don't know if it's just me or 13 islands is not enough to have 2 in the opening hand to cast a LoA.
Is Standstill a good replacement for Spell snare? Or it just sucks in an aggro metagame?

[FANAttIC]

Jund plays 27 lands because their curve is like at 3-4, with spells at 5.

Merfolk has no where near 4 casting cost. At 5, the spell is free, 4, there is no card, 3 there is 4 cards, and everythign else is 1-2.
Jund started at 24 land, then played 25 lands for months. Then a guy comes with 27, destroys all mirrors, wins a pro tour if I'm not mistaken and everybody copied his number until rotation.
I believe I want more chance to cast spells with 22 lands because I agressively use Wasteland in every opportunity.

[KobeBryan]

Has anyone tried force spike over the two spell pierces yet?

[Kanadell~]

Has anyone tried force spike over the two spell pierces yet?

It's nice but it's not what the deck needs. Daze does the same effect but better, and Spell pierce helps a lot vs MU's like reanimator.

[Einherjer]

How can you play 3 (THREEEEEEE) Cursecatchers? Id even run 8 if i could...

[FANAttIC]

:D I hear you, but (to me) combo matchups are not the biggest problem for deck, creature decks are, and Catchers are nice one/ones there after they are done bolting and swordsing. I apologize to all folk playsers if this is sacrilege :)

[Kanadell~]

:D I hear you, but (to me) combo matchups are not the biggest problem for deck, creature decks are, and Catchers are nice one/ones there after they are done bolting and swordsing. I apologize to all folk playsers if this is sacrilege :)


They don't shine only vs combo, you can counter a 1st turn brainstorm/ponder and play a T2 LoA/Coralhelm. I think Cursecatcher should be a 4x of but well, 3x of is not a sacrilege XD

[KobeBryan]

They don't shine only vs combo, you can counter a 1st turn brainstorm/ponder and play a T2 LoA/Coralhelm. I think Cursecatcher should be a 4x of but well, 3x of is not a sacrilege XD

I also think Cursecatcher is a 4 of. He helps counter spells, protects your lords from removal, he kills bridges, he helps you prepare for your alpha strike.

Can counter Hivemind pacts, show and tells. Many if anythign I'd drop a coralhelm commander. That guy is a vanilla 2/2 that robs you of mana. Coralhelm is certainly not a 4 of.

[FANAttIC]

Our play styles are different.

I saw suggestions to remove fourth Reej or Commander, would never do that. Yes, Reej is not good for Vial at 2 but there are many reasons why he deserves its slots. Coralhelm is robbing you of mana but merfolk have low curve and almost no way of refilling hand other than Adept and Standstill if you run it, if you draw Force, well, then the hand is gone even quicker. I like efficient mana sink that adds another dimension to the deck.

I don't sacrifice Catcher to counter Brainstorm/Ponder (often) but would use it against Thoughtseize, Hymn, Zenith or random counter for Lord. Really don't see it as protection for lords removal, Bolt, StP and PtE are too efficient (I assume the opponents are smart).

For Bridges I have 3 Catchers, 3 Images and 2 Dismembers, Force, Waste and Daze are also not bad (if they cast spells of course). Not bad number of cards for game 1.

Yes, Cursecatchers are excellent with daze to stop Pacts, but banning Misstep changes things, there are other quicker combo decks so I expect transfer form Hive Mind to those.

[KobeBryan]

Going to a tournament this sunday. Any suggestions would help

lands
4x mutavault
4x wastelands
4x tundras
4x flooded strand
4x island

creatures
4x merrow rejerey
3x coralhelm commander
4x cursecatcher
4x lord of atlantis
3x phantasmal image
4x silvergil adept

spells
4x force of will
3x daze
4x stifle
3x swords to plowshares

artifacts
4x aether vials

sideboard
4x surgical extraction
3x disenchant
3x spell pierce
2x path to exile
2x hibernation
1x swords to plowshares

The biggest gamble is the 4x stifles instead of 4x dazes. I found that dazes mid/late game useless. Thats why I went to three. The stifles serve like Mental Misteps. Any suggestions would help. Surgical extraction might be too much. Any suggestions for that last sideboard slot would help. Maybe another disenchant to kill stoneblade.

[Goin Aggro]

Have you actually played with that list in a tournament? More Islands in there, seriously.

With the manabase you have, I don't actually know whether you can count on consistently (70%) having double blue to hardcast Coralhelm or Lord, especially against decks with wasteland. (Isn't the standard 21/22 lands?)

The splash is fine, but not when you're giving up that much consistency on your manabase. The only way you'll ever hope to out aggro someone like Zoo (Or put a ridiculous amount of pressure on any deck that you need to kill fast, I.e. combo) is if you're fully utilizing your manabase AND vial to drop guys into play AFAP.

I've seen merfolk decks with TEN PLUS islands in addition to a splash get color screwed off of double blue. YOU NEED DOUBLE BLUE if you want to have this deck work at peak efficiency.

And no offense, Merfolk players have this habit of keeping the most ridiculous hands that have vial. (Wasteland, Wasteland, Vial + random creatures is not keepable unless they're on four color derp-control)

Good luck at Deals btw.

[Kanadell~]

Have you actually played with that list in a tournament? More Islands in there, seriously.

With the manabase you have, I don't actually know whether you can count on consistently (70%) having double blue to hardcast Coralhelm or Lord, especially against decks with wasteland. (Isn't the standard 21/22 lands?)

The splash is fine, but not when you're giving up that much consistency on your manabase. The only way you'll ever hope to out aggro someone like Zoo (Or put a ridiculous amount of pressure on any deck that you need to kill fast, I.e. combo) is if you're fully utilizing your manabase AND vial to drop guys into play AFAP.

I've seen merfolk decks with TEN PLUS islands in addition to a splash get color screwed off of double blue. YOU NEED DOUBLE BLUE if you want to have this deck work at peak efficiency.

And no offense, Merfolk players have this habit of keeping the most ridiculous hands that have vial. (Wasteland, Wasteland, Vial + random creatures is not keepable unless they're on four color derp-control)

Good luck at Deals btw.


Most merfolk players (including me) run 13 islands, and in my case I don't usually get 2 islands in the opening 7. Usually lands in hand are 1 island and 1 mutavault or something like this. The thing is, if you have vial, you can play the lords anyway and hope for an Island on topdeck. Is this decision correct or should be better to mull to 6? I don't know but most merfolk player prefer keeping a hand with vial and some lords than mull to 6.

[KobeBryan]

Have you actually played with that list in a tournament? More Islands in there, seriously.

With the manabase you have, I don't actually know whether you can count on consistently (70%) having double blue to hardcast Coralhelm or Lord, especially against decks with wasteland. (Isn't the standard 21/22 lands?)

The splash is fine, but not when you're giving up that much consistency on your manabase. The only way you'll ever hope to out aggro someone like Zoo (Or put a ridiculous amount of pressure on any deck that you need to kill fast, I.e. combo) is if you're fully utilizing your manabase AND vial to drop guys into play AFAP.

I've seen merfolk decks with TEN PLUS islands in addition to a splash get color screwed off of double blue. YOU NEED DOUBLE BLUE if you want to have this deck work at peak efficiency.

And no offense, Merfolk players have this habit of keeping the most ridiculous hands that have vial. (Wasteland, Wasteland, Vial + random creatures is not keepable unless they're on four color derp-control)

Good luck at Deals btw.

Yea its true. Even without a splash, I've been screwed before without getting double blue. 8 colorless sources do that to you.

I'll try to make it 5 islands and see what happens.

[SlopeeJ]

I would cut a tundra and island for 2 more fetches, doesn't seem like you have enough ways to get white and you only want to get the tundra when you need it. Maybe even 2 tundras for more islands/fetches, you don't want to draw the tundra. You will lose to wasteland

[ScatmanX]

When Mental Missteps came out, Merfolk dropped Standstill in place of a more aggressive build. Now that MM is banned, Standstill is not worth re-considering?

[Trentemoller]

I'm looking for a good Merfolk opponent to test against for the GP via MWS, if someone is willing to test, could you add me to Skype? Name is Trentecaller. Thanks!

[Kanadell~]

When Mental Missteps came out, Merfolk dropped Standstill in place of a more aggressive build. Now that MM is banned, Standstill is not worth re-considering?

Now that mental misstep is banned, aggro and combo decks like Goblins and T.E.S will rise again, so you have to race them and be as aggro as possible, so I think Standstill is not a good choise right now.

[RuthLessMerfolk]

Hi this is my first post

I have been playing Magic for only 4 months and decided to make a merfolk deck and have been very pleased with it. I have played in 4 tourneys with over 40 people and have top 8'd twice with one 4th place finish and one 2nd place finish.

I would like to know if anyone has play tested flusterstorm. With many storm decks out there is it a usable card in the current meta?

[Kanadell~]

Hi this is my first post

I have been playing Magic for only 4 months and decided to make a merfolk deck and have been very pleased with it. I have played in 4 tourneys with over 40 people and have top 8'd twice with one 4th place finish and one 2nd place finish.

I would like to know if anyone has play tested flusterstorm. With many storm decks out there is it a usable card in the current meta?

Congrats on your success at tourneys. And about flusterstorm, i've seen 2 or 3 in some merfolk deck but always in the sideboard vs storm decks. In maindeck i don't think it's a good option because Spell snare or spell pierce are better in the rest of Match ups.

[supa_tim]

Has anyone tried spellstutter sprite in some of the spots left by mental misstep? It offers more countermagic, goes well with vial at 2, and is another body (not that the deck necessarily needs one). Is the 2cc too prohibitive?

[bakofried]

It could be considered, but right now I'd rather play a combination of Phantasmal Image and Dismember in the flex slots.

[Kanadell~]

Has anyone tried spellstutter sprite in some of the spots left by mental misstep? It offers more countermagic, goes well with vial at 2, and is another body (not that the deck necessarily needs one). Is the 2cc too prohibitive?

It's not about its 2cc cost, its about that its not a merfolk. We want to tap out and attack for the win while having counters in our hand to save creatures from swords/any removal. I think phantasmal image is way better here because it can act as removal by copying opponen'ts legendary creature, or simply copy our Reejerey/LoA and pump all the other guys.
Anyway if you want faeries in this deck I think Vendilion clique is way better, but we also have Kira.

[straca3]

Has anyone tried spellstutter sprite in some of the spots left by mental misstep? It offers more countermagic, goes well with vial at 2, and is another body (not that the deck necessarily needs one). Is the 2cc too prohibitive?

I tried it, wasnt very good. Its just too slow and not really what you want to do.

[chuck2657]

Has anyone tried spellstutter sprite in some of the spots left by mental misstep? It offers more countermagic, goes well with vial at 2, and is another body (not that the deck necessarily needs one). Is the 2cc too prohibitive?

It's a body, but the body is a 1/1 non-merfolk. Considering its reactive it isn't likely to decrease the clock you put on your opponent much. And against midrange and aggro it will just chump a creature for a turn. If it was 1CC for the effect I'd say sure....but it would also be a completely broken card :D.

[chuck2657]

Has anyone tried spellstutter sprite in some of the spots left by mental misstep? It offers more countermagic, goes well with vial at 2, and is another body (not that the deck necessarily needs one). Is the 2cc too prohibitive?

It's a body, but the body is a 1/1 non-merfolk. Considering its reactive it isn't likely to decrease the clock you put on your opponent much. And against midrange and aggro it will just chump a creature for a turn. If it was 1CC for the effect I'd say sure....but it would also be a completely broken card :D.

[Curby]

It could be considered, but right now I'd rather play a combination of Phantasmal Image and Dismember in the flex slots.

That's exactly right. There have been recent printings that are just better.

In a more constructive vein, I'm loving Standstill in my combo-heavy meta. Again, who's the beatdown? Certainly not you. Yes you have to kill them quickly, but establishing board control is more important. Standstill refills your hand, and with Mutavaults and Vials you'll never have to break your own.

The other side of the argument is more sound. If all you see is Zoo and Goblins, then Standstill isn't the most helpful option.

[Einherjer]

How many Dismembers are you guys playing? I started with 2, then 3 and ended now with 4 giving me a decent chance to actually BEAT decks like Maverick. Im really happy with it to be honest.

[KobeBryan]

How many Dismembers are you guys playing? I started with 2, then 3 and ended now with 4 giving me a decent chance to actually BEAT decks like Maverick. Im really happy with it to be honest.

I'm running 6 spot removals since I'm using white. Thats how much dedicated hate I have against maverick/rock decks. I even have disenchant for those batterskulls. I'm leaving no chance to lose to them.

You may say I am running a lot against stoneforge decks. Yes its true. I give up on my zoo matchups.

[Kanadell~]

How many Dismembers are you guys playing? I started with 2, then 3 and ended now with 4 giving me a decent chance to actually BEAT decks like Maverick. Im really happy with it to be honest.

It depends on whether you splash black or not. If you are monoblue, then 2 is the right number of dismembers MD because you lose 4 life each time you cast it. But if you splash black, then you can run 3 or 4 depending on your metagame.

[Einherjer]

Im monoblue and running 4 - ofc i board them out vs zoo and stuff - but against Maverick and Junk these are my key to victory.

[KobeBryan]

JoshuaD on MTGSal is testing 28 merfolks in the list with 8 counters.

What do you guys think of this list?

He dropped the 4 vials. It sounds like a good idea since the vials are pathetic topdecks after turn 3.

[Kanadell~]

JoshuaD on MTGSal is testing 28 merfolks in the list with 8 counters.

What do you guys think of this list?

He dropped the 4 vials. It sounds like a good idea since the vials are pathetic topdecks after turn 3.

Very interesting. Can you bring me the link to that list please?

[KobeBryan]

Very interesting. Can you bring me the link to that list please?

go to MTGsal's merfolk thread. Its like the last couple of threads.

[Kanadell~]

Sorry I dont get where to find it?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=311920&page=116

Here it is. I like the idea but i think 24 mana sources are too much.

[KobeBryan]

Yea, maybe 22 mana sources and just add a bunch of fish.

[Curby]

If you've got a deck with 30+ tribal creatures, you should probably be playing Goblins or Elf combo. Their internal synergies just seem much more powerful.

[SmallFish]

JoshuaD on MTGSal is testing 28 merfolks in the list with 8 counters.

What do you guys think of this list?

He dropped the 4 vials. It sounds like a good idea since the vials are pathetic topdecks after turn 3.

That actually sounds like a horrible idea. Vial gives you an insane advantage when you drop it turn one and alot of the time it's not a terrible topdeck until the late game. If nothing else, you just hold it and try to bluff a Daze or FoW. They belong in the deck though, not out of it.

[KobeBryan]

That actually sounds like a horrible idea. Vial gives you an insane advantage when you drop it turn one and alot of the time it's not a terrible topdeck until the late game. If nothing else, you just hold it and try to bluff a Daze or FoW. They belong in the deck though, not out of it.

I don't know what you are smoking, but i've realized that vial after turn 3 is useless. I hate drawing into vial when its not in my opening hand. I think the main problem with fish right now is the ability to draw cards to fuel vial.

I'm also trying to test this deck. I took the 4 vials out, but 25 creatures, 3 swords to plowshares, and 3 jace the mind sculptor.

[bakofried]

Yeah, it is useless. But its early game advantage is such that its worth drawing late game.

[Einherjer]

Yeah, it is useless. But its early game advantage is such that its worth drawing late game.

Absolutely true- how are you going to race Maverick when you put ONE Lord per turn? Never my friend...I wouldnt take out Vials - never - its like taking out Progenitus at NO-RUG but keeping Natural Order...

[KobeBryan]

Absolutely true- how are you going to race Maverick when you put ONE Lord per turn? Never my friend...I wouldnt take out Vials - never - its like taking out Progenitus at NO-RUG but keeping Natural Order...

I'm not doubting you guys the power of vial. I like it, when its in my opening hand.

Even with vial, chances are that you will be dropping 1 lord per turn. True, you will have that god hand where you vial silvergil, draw a card, drop a lord, but that is the farthest extent it can go.

Merfolk doesn't have the ability to draw many many cards, then glimpse them in with cradle. Thats are biggest problem.

Keep in mind that there are 8 dead cards after turn 3 with this deck. 4 vials and 4 dazes. The decks we are playing against, team america, bant, rug, have cards that are useful throughout the game. Thats the main problem we are facing and conclusively, we are not winning against these decks.

I also tested with jace in the deck. His brainstorm ability actually helped me drop another lord faster than using silvergils ability.

I did lose against team america, but even with vial, i would not have won that game.

[RBS]

I'm not doubting you guys the power of vial. I like it, when its in my opening hand.

Even with vial, chances are that you will be dropping 1 lord per turn. True, you will have that god hand where you vial silvergil, draw a card, drop a lord, but that is the farthest extent it can go.

Merfolk doesn't have the ability to draw many many cards, then glimpse them in with cradle. Thats are biggest problem.

Keep in mind that there are 8 dead cards after turn 3 with this deck. 4 vials and 4 dazes. The decks we are playing against, team america, bant, rug, have cards that are useful throughout the game. Thats the main problem we are facing and conclusively, we are not winning against these decks.

I also tested with jace in the deck. His brainstorm ability actually helped me drop another lord faster than using silvergils ability.

I did lose against team america, but even with vial, i would not have won that game.

Hi,

I've seen many mistakes in this thread lately (Counterspell, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), seems some of you guys don't even understand the basic principles of this deck.
How do you think of cutting EVEN one Aether Vial from Merfolk??? It's insane

This deck is all about tempo. You say Vial is useless after 3 turns?
True. But so are Daze, Cursecatcher, Islands...

Aether Vial is our tool to gain tempo. You drop Vial, then you may cast Daze without paying its mana cost, and without the downside of bouncing your island, because that's it, you have a Vial.

What's the point to cut Vial, to add more critters? Critters which will not even enter the battlefield, because you are now too slow without Vial?

Against Team America you win because you are very aggressive and fast. You are aggressive and fast because you can drop many creatures in a few turns. You can do that not because you have many creatures in your deck, but because you can drop many at once.
All the while being able to counter (Daze, Force of Will) and eliminate blockers (Reejey triggers, Dismember).

[sadakiyo]

Hi,

I've seen many mistakes in this thread lately (Counterspell, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), seems some of you guys don't even understand the basic principles of this deck.
How do you think of cutting EVEN one Aether Vial from Merfolk??? It's insane

This deck is all about tempo. You say Vial is useless after 3 turns?
True. But so are Daze, Cursecatcher, Islands...

Aether Vial is our tool to gain tempo. You drop Vial, then you may cast Daze without paying its mana cost, and without the downside of bouncing your island, because that's it, you have a Vial.

What's the point to cut Vial, to add more critters? Critters which will not even enter the battlefield, because you are now too slow without Vial?

Against Team America you win because you are very aggressive and fast. You are aggressive and fast because you can drop many creatures in a few turns. You can do that not because you have many creatures in your deck, but because you can drop many at once.
All the while being able to counter (Daze, Force of Will) and eliminate blockers (Reejey triggers, Dismember).

I have to agree on this one, Merfolk is a tempo deck. You wanna kill ur opponent ASAP and try to avoid late game battle. After looking at some posts and tournament result, I am wondering why standstill is not used anymore, especially with the resurgence of combo and control decks.
I have 3 standstills in my MD and I am very satisfied on how it performs. With misstep gone, T1 vial followed by T2 Standstill is highly possible.

[SmallFish]

I don't know what you are smoking, but i've realized that vial after turn 3 is useless. I hate drawing into vial when its not in my opening hand. I think the main problem with fish right now is the ability to draw cards to fuel vial.

I'm also trying to test this deck. I took the 4 vials out, but 25 creatures, 3 swords to plowshares, and 3 jace the mind sculptor.

I'm not smoking anything, but thanks for the insult.

I've been playing alot of Merfolk over the last year and I know that Vial isn't ideal after turn one. It's value goes down significantly after turn one. However, it is not a useless card if you draw and play it turn three. There have been countless times where I play an Adept/some other creature on turn two and draw a Vial off the card or my next turn.
This is not a great situation, but I would say that more than a few games have been won through this. For example, I will be playing UW Blade or some other deck packing counters and I have a LOA in my hand. If it's turn three, I will play the Vial since running it out to be countered is not a great play when a single LOA resolved can win you the game. Again, I agree that the value of the card goes down immensely and alot of the time it is a pretty bad draw, but to say it's useless is just wrong (it will also depend on what type of deck you are playing against).

[KobeBryan]

I'm not smoking anything, but thanks for the insult.

I've been playing alot of Merfolk over the last year and I know that Vial isn't ideal after turn one. It's value goes down significantly after turn one. However, it is not a useless card if you draw and play it turn three. There have been countless times where I play an Adept/some other creature on turn two and draw a Vial off the card or my next turn.
This is not a great situation, but I would say that more than a few games have been won through this. For example, I will be playing UW Blade or some other deck packing counters and I have a LOA in my hand. If it's turn three, I will play the Vial since running it out to be countered is not a great play when a single LOA resolved can win you the game. Again, I agree that the value of the card goes down immensely and alot of the time it is a pretty bad draw, but to say it's useless is just wrong (it will also depend on what type of deck you are playing against).

Anyways. It was a simple test run to go vialless. To be honest, I feel that the deck is almost the same. You do get more threats each turn though. Of course I did not get the explosive turn 2 with vials. Also I do miss having some extra counters.

Jace annoyed the shit out of the opposing player.

[Kanadell~]

I've been testing without vial and with vial, I play this deck a lot and I think i'd cut the wastelands before cuting the vials. Sure, mana denial is awesome vs opponents with a poor mana base, and it can give you the game, but often those wastelands are forcing me to mulligan. I mean, hands like cursecatcher, LoA, Coralhelm, reejerey, island, wasteland, would become so much playable if the wasteland was an Island. So many hands would become playable if a non-basic land were another island.
And this has happened too often to me. I think it's more important to be able to develop my game than cutting opponent's plays. And hands with mutavault and wasteland are even worse.

What do u ppl think?

[Einherjer]

What I think? Well, I use an tactic all you would call me an idiot but Ive been doing this for quite awhile and it works out great.

I just add an 61st card to the deck, an Island.

[KobeBryan]

I've been testing without vial and with vial, I play this deck a lot and I think i'd cut the wastelands before cuting the vials. Sure, mana denial is awesome vs opponents with a poor mana base, and it can give you the game, but often those wastelands are forcing me to mulligan. I mean, hands like cursecatcher, LoA, Coralhelm, reejerey, island, wasteland, would become so much playable if the wasteland was an Island. So many hands would become playable if a non-basic land were another island.
And this has happened too often to me. I think it's more important to be able to develop my game than cutting opponent's plays. And hands with mutavault and wasteland are even worse.

What do u ppl think?

Without having a vial, I have been mana screwed countless times. On board, it would be wasteland, island, mutavault. I could not even cast my lord of atlantis or coralhelm commander.

This has annoyed me to no other. I was thinking cutting down on the mutavaults to run more islands because of this. I would not cut the wastelands since killing utility lands are far more important than attacking with a 2/2 mutavault.

I've also been screwed with phantasmal images. I ran three in the MD and there are times i have a silvergil and couldn't cast it because I have 2 images in hand. If you run kira as well, this just adds to you not being able to cast silvergil.

I'm thinking maybe drop the mutavaults to 3 and run an extra island to give you that extra UU, which is critical in fish.

[Fortunae]

I've been testing without vial and with vial, I play this deck a lot and I think i'd cut the wastelands before cuting the vials. Sure, mana denial is awesome vs opponents with a poor mana base, and it can give you the game, but often those wastelands are forcing me to mulligan. I mean, hands like cursecatcher, LoA, Coralhelm, reejerey, island, wasteland, would become so much playable if the wasteland was an Island. So many hands would become playable if a non-basic land were another island.
And this has happened too often to me. I think it's more important to be able to develop my game than cutting opponent's plays. And hands with mutavault and wasteland are even worse.

What do u ppl think?

Vial is the reason why this deck can justify running 8 colorless sources. Wastelands give your Dazes and Cursecatchers more life in addition to wrecking decks with a tenuous manabase. And then there are all of the problem lands that need to be dealt with or you just lose- like Cephalid Coliseum for example.

Wasteland is one of the best cards in legacy, and someone (I can't remember who-sorry!) on this forum said it best when they asserted that if you are playing without them, you need to have a very good reason for doing so.

I've had plenty of awkward hands/draws where I needed double blue but only had one or nothing at all, but you have to realize that since this is partially a game of chance, you are going to end up with bad hands and bad draws no matter what your deck's composition. Merfolk is a beautifully synergistic deck, with a core suite of cards that can't be removed without sacrificing the integrity of the deck as a whole.

If you do fiddle with Vial, Wasteland, or what have you, you will probably still win, and maybe even often enough that you think that it was the correct choice. But then you have to wonder how much better the deck would perform if its best cards hadn't been cut.

[MirrorMask]

Having only recently constructed my merfolk deck (missing 3 wastes, 4 mutavaults) I have to agree with you. Its so freaking annoying to have to mulligan and completely lose gas most of the times just to have the option of wasteland. It sucks imo. I also noticed that 21 creatures I play are maybe low? What about if they pack much removal?

Here my list and while not entirely optimal I somewhat like it:

Creatures (21)


4x Lord of atlantis
3x Coralhelm commander
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Merrow Reejerey
2x Phantasmal image

Spells (19)

4x force of will
4x daze
4x go for the throat
2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x aether vial
3x standstill

Lands (18)
3x polluted delta
4x misty rainforest
4x mutavault
3x underground sea
4x island

I haven't gone to a tournament with it yet as i don't have the mutavaults but so far it functions well. Setting aside the fact that it lacks some more creatures I think, as it is a bit slow for a creature deck (well, maybe 8 free counters do change your role a bit .Its not zoo anyway). What do you guys think? Sucks or not?

P.S a funny idea on combating goyf would be Vodalian Zombie !!!!!!!!
also how about Inkfathom Infiltrator ,Sygg, River Cutthroat and
Grimoire Thief as extra creatures if needed? Do you think that power wise they are ok?

[Humphrey]

for everybody plaing gut shot, play psychic purge instead

[Vandalize]

Lol, people trying to drop Vial and Wasteland from Merfolk...

Christ, Merfolk is a tempo deck, that focuses on killing your opponent in short order. And Vial and Wasteland makes a huge difference in the kill. The whole point of Merfolk's gameplan is to drop lords asap to make huge islandwalking fish, and disrupting (SOFTLY) your opponent on this process (via Cursecatcher, Counterspell, Wasteland).

If the game goes late against something like Stoneblade or BUGstill you will lose. The reason? Their decks are designed to win on the lategame, while disrupting the opponent's early (which is the whole principal of a control deck).

I'd say that there're two things that merfolk have trouble with: Non-Island decks, and Spot Removal. That's why this deck has a wonderful blue matchup, and a horrible GW Maverick, Zoo and Goblins matchup.

[KobeBryan]

What would you guys run right now?

3x stifles or 2 kira and a spell pierce?

I've decided to just punt the zoo matchup. What do you guys think has more utility right now.

Team america runs 8 spot removals (including snapcasters)

[FANAttIC]

Spell Snares for me. They are not expected and they deal with the best of legacy cards.
They can try and hide their Stoneforge, Goyf, Bob, Snapcaster, Hymn, Jitte and whatnot from Daze, Snare will still get the job done.

[KobeBryan]

Spell Snares for me. They are not expected and they deal with the best of legacy cards.
They can try and hide their Stoneforge, Goyf, Bob, Snapcaster, Hymn, Jitte and whatnot from Daze, Snare will still get the job done.

hmm that is a good idea actually. run spell snare in that spot over stifle and standstills

Well here is my list

creatures (22)
4 corelhelm commander
4 silvergil
4 cursecatcher
4 lord of atlantis
4 merrow reegerry
2 phantasmal image

instants (10)
3 swords to plowshares
4 force of will
4 daze

artifacts (4)
4 vials

lands (21)
4 wastelands
4 mutavaults
4 tundras
4 flooded strand
5 islands

sideboard
3 disenchant
1 path to exile
1 swords to plowshare
2 hibernation
2 relic of prog
1 tormod's crypt
3 spell pierce
2 ethersworn cannonist

I have 58 in maindeck. I'd like to go 61 cards. So the 3 remaining can be 1. 2 kira and 1 spell pierce; 2. 3 standstills. 3. 3 stifles or 4. 3 spell snares.

[Magic_Shortbus9]

for everybody plaing gut shot, play psychic purge instead

great suggestion. its in color and saves you paying 2 life for the same effect but being a sorcery hurts it and the random discard affect isn't worth it as you'll probably just cast it as so as you draw it.

[FANAttIC]

Blue already have small creature kill spells like Piracy Charm, but that is not a point.
Gut Shot is used vs Scryb Ranger (maverick), Dryad Arbor (no rug) when they fetch at the end of your turn in hope of Ordering random monster, Mother, Hierarch, Lackey, Lavamancer, Confidant, Clique... when you want to tap out for more important stuff. After all we play tempo deck.

[SlopeeJ]

purge def isn't a good suggestion over gut shot. I am not sure gut shot is playable, but psychic purge is not playable at all... Actually that card is pretty terrible.