[Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

[KobeBryan]

I think we are way too focused on Obliterator.

Arena is way too slow for legacy. It may be good in EDH but you never want to draw a non mana producing land pretty much your first 5-6 turns, actually pretty much ever in Legacy. The thing is even with dark ritual your combo doesn't come down until turn 4 and that is assuming you dark rit into obliterator on your 2nd or third turn. Our mana base is already pretty fragile, I don't want to think about what would happen if our others lands were wasted and we were left with an arena in play.

Berserk sounds like a monster play with Obliterator but it suffers for the same reasons that Mental Misstep did. It is a limited to needing a creature and is an awful topdeck. Actually it completely sucks with everything other than Obliterator. Unless I'm going to finish off my opponent this turn I want to keep my creature in play. Unlike mental misstep we don't need to run it as a 4 of to be effective but my question is why this over regular equipment? It isn't an instant and may cost more, but on the plus side barring the unfortunate, we get to keep our equipment and our creature till the end of turn.

I completely agree with you regarding obliterator and Berserk. The traditional build is much better after testing.

You know what i'm so sick of...Mirran Crusader. This guy singlehandedly made Eva Green obsolete. I cannot even fight Death and Taxes, Deadguy Ale when this guy drops on the table.

[DragoFireheart]

You know what i'm so sick of...Mirran Crusader. This guy singlehandedly made Eva Green obsolete. I cannot even fight Death and Taxes, Deadguy Ale when this guy drops on the table.

Phyrexian Obliterator doesn't really care about Mirran. Sure, let the Mirran block it: you can then lose 4 permanments!

[SilkySmooth]

I completely agree with you regarding obliterator and Berserk. The traditional build is much better after testing.

You know what i'm so sick of...Mirran Crusader. This guy singlehandedly made Eva Green obsolete. I cannot even fight Death and Taxes, Deadguy Ale when this guy drops on the table.

True, but they were a tough matchup even before Mirran Crusader. On the plus side Death and Taxes absolutely roll over to combo and i still believe that the Deadguy Ale match ups comes down to who plays more discard earlier. Even then their stuff is cheaper so yeah it sucks. Have you tried Leyline of Sanctity? It has been pretty good for me in testing. It shuts down their discard and Gatekeeper of Malakir and that is usually enough to give you the game assuming your own discard hits their vindicates. It also wrecks Ant and Burn among other unfavorable matchups so theres that.

[KobeBryan]

True, but they were a tough matchup even before Mirran Crusader. On the plus side Death and Taxes absolutely roll over to combo and i still believe that the Deadguy Ale match ups comes down to who plays more discard earlier. Even then their stuff is cheaper so yeah it sucks. Have you tried Leyline of Sanctity? It has been pretty good for me in testing. It shuts down their discard and Gatekeeper of Malakir and that is usually enough to give you the game assuming your own discard hits their vindicates. It also wrecks Ant and Burn among other unfavorable matchups so theres that.

i'm not even gonna try against the death and taxes and deadguy matchups. i'm focusing on MUC, Affinity, and combo.

Its so bad, i don't wanna waste my SB card slots.

[Greenpoe]

i'm not even gonna try against the death and taxes and deadguy matchups. i'm focusing on MUC, Affinity, and combo.

Its so bad, i don't wanna waste my SB card slots.

Dystopia solves them both. At worst, Dystopia is a Diabolic Edict, at best it turns a losing position into a game-winning position. I've got 4 Dystopia in the board instead of Perish because of the rise of Stoneforge and Mirran Crusader.

[KobeBryan]

Dystopia solves them both. At worst, Dystopia is a Diabolic Edict, at best it turns a losing position into a game-winning position. I've got 4 Dystopia in the board instead of Perish because of the rise of Stoneforge and Mirran Crusader.

4 dedicated sideboard slots man. You can use it to guarantee your victory against the combos, affinities, and MUC.

[Greenpoe]

What card beats MUC? That MU is just plain bad. Jace dodges Deed. Top dodges Pulse. Shackles stops your beaters. Misstep halts your tempo. These days they're packing Snare, which just owns.

[KobeBryan]

What card beats MUC? That MU is just plain bad. Jace dodges Deed. Top dodges Pulse. Shackles stops your beaters. Misstep halts your tempo. These days they're packing Snare, which just owns.

The targeted and random discard owns MUC

[Clark Kant]

Berserk sounds like a monster play with Obliterator but it suffers for the same reasons that Mental Misstep did. It is a limited to needing a creature and is an awful topdeck. Actually it completely sucks with everything other than Obliterator.

Lol wut?

Berserk is ridiculously good with Abyssal Persecutor, Tarmagoyf and Obliterator. Given the situation, it's not a bad play on Gatekeeper or Confidant or your opponents creature either.

Just got done testing this list, and holy fucking balls on a stick was it strong...

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
7 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Forest
4 Dark Ritual

4 Berserk
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (Didn't test Thoughtseize or Duress or Cabal Therapy here but I imagine that a mix of any of these would work great here as well)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Go for the Throat/Maelstrom Pulse (I was playing Go for the Throat maindeck due to it's lower cc and Pulses, Perish etc in the board but if you want maindeck enchantment destruction, then yeah, play Pulse)

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Abyssal Persecutor

Absolutely slaughtered every single deck I tested it against. This is just such an incredibly potent mix of overpowered cards. I think this is a deck that people absolutely need to play around with.

[SilkySmooth]

Lol wut?

Berserk is ridiculously good with Abyssal Persecutor, Tarmagoyf and Obliterator. Given the situation, it's not a bad play on Gatekeeper or Confidant or your opponents creature either.

Just got done testing this list, and holy fucking balls on a stick was it powerful...

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
7 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Forest
4 Dark Ritual

4 Berserk
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (Didn't test Thoughtseize or Duress here but I imagine that both would work great here as well)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Go for the Throat/Maelstrom Pulse (I was playing Go for the Throat maindeck and Pulses, Perish etc in the board)

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Abyssal Persecutor

Absolutely slaughtered every single deck I tested it against. This is just an incredibly potent mix of uber powerful cards. I think this is a deck that people absolutely need to play around with.

You heard me correctly. We don't regurgitate creatures like tribal or affinity, thus we don't control the board with a mass amount of creatures. That means in most games we have at most 2-3 creatures in play assuming we are playing against an interactive deck. Your deck only has 4 types of cards so alone, goyf will at most be a 4/5. Even with trample I can't see you dealing lethal with any one of your creatures with berserk other than your 4 cmc fatties, Obliterator or Persecutor. You will not deal lethal with dark confidant or you other creatures the majority of the time and quite frankly if i were your opponent i wouldn't care that you attacked because it would only mean to me that you just did me the service of getting rid of your own creature for me. I'll take the four damage if it mean you lose your only card draw engine and not only that but also expend an additional card in the form of berserk from your hand. Most decks with removal will not have enough removal to answer all your creature but lets not even consider gatekeeper as a creature that needs to be answered, with or without berserk. compare your 7 creatures at 4 mana a piece to 1 mana removal such as swords of plowshares. You tell me who wins the battle. This is incredibly relevant in a fight not only against similar decks such as Deadguy Ale or The Gate, but also decks packing counters(blue decks) which seem to dominate the current meta. I'm am going to ask you want decks did you test against specifically and how many games did you test against these decks? You're telling me you are seeing results but i can't see them even from a logical standpoint.

[Clark Kant]

With a friends help, took turns all of yesterday running the deck against every deck we own...

I don't recall the exact numbers, but approximately, we played...

7 games versus Merfolk
3 games versus NO Bant
3 games versus Combo Elves
4 games versus B/U Reanimator
2 games versus Belcher
3 games versus Burn
2 games versus Dragon Stompy
2 games versus Fairie Stompy
2 games versus Goblins
3 games versus Quinn
1 game versus affinity
3 games versus Armageddon Stax

The thing I do remember is that the deck had positive or even results versus every single one of those matchups except Combo elves and Quinn (lost 1-2 against both).

And Berserk on Goyf won a respectable number of games as did Berserk on Obliterator and Persecutor.

No it's not a complete gauntlet, but it was a diverse enough gauntlet that I came away very convinced by it.

So if based purely on logic, you're deducing that this strategy is not effective, then I think your logic is flawed.

[SilkySmooth]

I don't think it is. Can you sincerely argue against any of the points I made by providing counterpoints of your own? You said that you "absolutely slaughtered every deck you played". but it appears to be very limited testing. That's ok to get a feel for the match up i suppose, but I'm absolutely shocked you beat any combo, Burn, reanimator, or Merfolk. You must of had the most epic draws ever for every game you played.

I have trouble with combo because they can go off before i can lay down all my threats and I run more discard and creature removal than you. At very best you can win by turn 5. That is assuming you concentrate entirely on getting your fatty with dark ritual down and swing with a Berserk. And I mean either twice because as we know your creature dies at the end of turn. or you have to swing twice with the creature with it going unanswered and then once more for the third time with Berserk attached. This is also assuming you opponent plays 0 disruption.

Burn has an incredibly reliable 4 turn clock with the ability to go off sooner. You only help them out with fetches and dark confidant. Reanimator will comply shut you down with iona turn two. They can follow that up with Blazing Archon. most combo will go can go off as soon as turn 1 but more reliably on turn 3-4. All of them with a faster clock than you.

You playing dark ritual into a fatty is a counter decks wet dream. Not only do you lose your creature, you lose dark ritual and the mana it produced, and Berserk is now useless. Essentially going 3 for 1 in their favor. This is why I'm shocked you won against a counter deck like Merfolk or even BU Reanimator which runs counters.

Maybe you side boarded incredibly well, or you started every game with turn one discard followed by turn two hymn followed by your combo unanswered. Cause even if my logic is flawed, the math does not add up.

[Gui]

I don't think it is. Can you sincerely argue against any of the points I made by providing counterpoints of your own? You said that you "absolutely slaughtered every deck you played". but it appears to be very limited testing. That's ok to get a feel for the match up i suppose, but I'm absolutely shocked you beat any combo, Burn, reanimator, or Merfolk. You must of had the most epic draws ever for every game you played. I have trouble with combo because they can go off before i can lay down all my threats and I run more discard and creature removal than you. At very best you can win by turn 5. That is assuming you concentrate entirely on getting your fatty with dark ritual down and swing with a Berserk. And I mean either twice because as we know your creature dies at the end of turn. or you have to swing twice with the creature with it going unanswered and then once more for the third time with Berserk attached this time. This is also assuming you opponent plays 0 disruption. Burn has an incredibly reliable 4 turn clock with the ability to go off sooner. You only help them out with fetches and dark confidant. Reanimator will comply shut you down with iona turn two. They can follow that up with Blazing Archon. most combo will go can go off as soon as turn 1 but more reliably on turn 3-4. All of them with a faster clock than you. You playing dark ritual into a fatty is a counter decks wet dream. Not only do you lose your creature, you lose dark ritual and the mana it produced, and Berserk is now useless. Essentially going 3 for 1 in their favor. This is why I'm shocked you won against a counter deck like merfolk. Maybe you side boarded incredibly well, or you started every game with turn one discard followed by turn two hymn followed by your combo unanswered. Cause even if my logic is flawed, the math does not add up.

Talk about some Wall of Text.

I tend to agree with the guy writing with paragraphs and currently testing his mods, so I believe Clark. xD

Well, just passing by to say you added some badass card to your deck with Berserk, bro, and I can't but say Well Done and wish you Good Luck! =D

[KobeBryan]

Lol wut?

Berserk is ridiculously good with Abyssal Persecutor, Tarmagoyf and Obliterator. Given the situation, it's not a bad play on Gatekeeper or Confidant or your opponents creature either.

Just got done testing this list, and holy fucking balls on a stick was it strong...

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
7 Swamp
4 Bayou
1 Forest
4 Dark Ritual

4 Berserk
4 Inquisition of Kozilek (Didn't test Thoughtseize or Duress or Cabal Therapy here but I imagine that a mix of any of these would work great here as well)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Go for the Throat/Maelstrom Pulse (I was playing Go for the Throat maindeck due to it's lower cc and Pulses, Perish etc in the board but if you want maindeck enchantment destruction, then yeah, play Pulse)

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Abyssal Persecutor

Absolutely slaughtered every single deck I tested it against. This is just such an incredibly potent mix of overpowered cards. I think this is a deck that people absolutely need to play around with.

If you are playing abyssal, you NEED cabal thereapy. Otherwise i wouldn't touch Abyssal with a stick. The cards you are playing needs an out for abyssal. With that, you will need something that doesn't cost one mana to off your guy. This makes your deck too vulnerable against counterbalance and mental missteps.

The alternative cost for cabal therapy cannot be countered. That is your way out.

[SilkySmooth]

Talk about some Wall of Text.

I tend to agree with the guy writing with paragraphs and currently testing his mods, so I believe Clark. xD

Well, just passing by to say you added some badass card to your deck with Berserk, bro, and I can't but say Well Done and wish you Good Luck! =D

Even though his limited testing might state otherwise, his list will eventually succumb to simple statistics like all lists do.

I also edited my post with paragraphs. Hope it is now easier to read and my points won't be dismissed for being simply a wall of text. :) It was only 350 words bro...

[Clark Kant]

If you are playing abyssal, you NEED cabal thereapy. Otherwise i wouldn't touch Abyssal with a stick. The cards you are playing needs an out for abyssal. With that, you will need something that doesn't cost one mana to off your guy. This makes your deck too vulnerable against counterbalance and mental missteps.

The alternative cost for cabal therapy cannot be countered. That is your way out.

Yeah Cabal Therapy could be solid in the deck.

The deck already has 12 ways to kill your own Persecutor once your opponent is at 0 life...

4 Berserk
4 Go for the Throat
4 Gatekeeper

It was only occasionally a problem getting rid of it to win once I got my opponent down to zero life, but yeah, Mental Missteping my Berserk was very annoying every single time it happened. So bringing that number up to 14 by playing 2 Cabal Therapy certainly couldn't hurt. I've just never been a huge fan of the card as I tend to fizzle with it a lot so I personally won't play more than 2. You're welcome to go higher if you tend to have better luck with the card.

[KobeBryan]

Yeah Cabal Therapy could be solid in the deck.

The deck already has 12 ways to kill your own Persecutor once your opponent is at 0 life...

4 Berserk
4 Go for the Throat
4 Gatekeeper

It was only very occasionally a problem getting rid of it. But bring that number up to 13 or 14 by play 1-2 Cabal Therapy certainly couldn't hurt. I've just never been a huge fan of the card as I tend to fizzle with it a lot :(

I would actually go 3 berserks, 3 gatekeepers, and then put in 2 cabal therapy.

[Tsnowflake]

Clark, I'd like to run my Eva Green against your deck for testing purposes.

If you want to OCTGN some games, PM me ure AIM or someway to contact you and maybe we can set up a time to play? I'm on US East coast if that matters. I go by "Tsnow" in the OCTGN lobby, I idle there alot.

As for the deck itself, I agree that you need Therapy to get rid of your Abyssal Persecutor. It gives you powerful discard, and an out to Persecutor, and some toolbox-age in the event you need to snipe something you know is in their hand and have a creature to sac.

[KobeBryan]

I also think running obliterator and abyssal together is too much. I think its one or the other in a playset of 4s.

[Tsnowflake]

How do people feel about Lake of the Dead in this deck? It seems especially useful for people trying to run Obliterator and Persecutor. It can also serve as a large mana boost mid-late game for a minimum delve Tombstalker, among other things. Or is it just too weak to Wasteland?

[Greenpoe]

Lake of the Dead is such a cool card, but it's a terrible. Even a perfect hand of Swamp, Swamp, Swamp, Lake of the Dead, Obliterator would go something like...Turn 1 Swamp, turn 2 swamp, turn 3 Lake of the Dead and you've got six black mana, but only one land left. By that point, it's better to just run a Mox. You'd still need Urborgs so each Lake could sacrifice another Lake.

Deadguy builds have been using Fetid Heath[/card] to manage WW for Crusader and BBBB for Obliterator. Has anyone tried [cards]Twilight Mire for a similar effect?

[dameus]

Lake of the Dead is such a cool card, but it's terrible. ...

Deadguy builds have been using Fetid Heath to manage WW for Crusader and BBBB for Obliterator. Has anyone tried Twilight Mire for a similar effect?

Greenpoe is dead on on Lake of the Dead.

I'm running 3x Twilight Mires in my deck along with 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (considering 2x). 3 Mire's is max for me though because they can - rarely - backfire.

[KobeBryan]

Guys. I dismantled my eva green deck after going 2-0 in the tournament. I'm playing The Rock. Good luck to you guys still playing eva. I of course still love this deck, but I feel that this deck lack versatility compared to The Rock.

[Tsnowflake]

Scroll Rack

yay or nay?

I see it as a pseudo-brainstorm we get to play. And at 2 colorless cc we can get it out fast. Might help with consistency and the horrible top decks we see mid-late game.

[KobeBryan]

Scroll Rack

yay or nay?

I see it as a pseudo-brainstorm we get to play. And at 2 colorless cc we can get it out fast. Might help with consistency and the horrible top decks we see mid-late game.

I dont' feel this deck has that horrible of a top deck than other decks. If you must, I rather use mirri's guile or slyvan library

[Tsnowflake]

I've been play testing with Mask of Memory.

So far it has been working out really great. Get it on a Hypnotic Specter and the CA becomes insane. Also good for forcing your opponents to block when they might not want to, just to avoid giving you 2 draws.

I've cut grim discovery/noxious revival since I rarely need to recycle stuff from the grave due the fact that I can draw new cards pretty often. This opened up some slots for some Vampire Nighthawks.

Current list:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir

4 Dark Ritual
4 Snuff Out

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
2 Maelstrom Pulse

3 Mask of Memory

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
1 Forest
8 Swamp

It has a large removal package and Pulse takes care of pesky enchants.

Cards I'm debating/trying to squeeze in somehow:

Pernicious Deed - I don't like how it can potentially be slower than Pulse for spot removal, but the ability to hit multiple things is also a huge plus. Also a Goyf pump

Unearth - Seems really good way to get creatures into play or recycle them. Especially with Mask of Memory. Hits every creatures except Tombstalker. If you are running Bob, this is especially good since he is such a removal magnet/sponge.

Seal of Primordium - I really like all the utility this card provides, all while adding to Goyf, but I phased it out for Pulse and can't find space to put back in.

Ratchet Bomb - Potential alternative to Deed, can explode for 0, 1, or 2 relatively fast, 2cmc colorless so fast and no color fixing needed, and keeps your mana open. I like it over Powder Keg since keg doesn't hit enchants.

--Cheers

[ChokeSeemsGood]

Here is a list i have been playing with great success the last couple of weeks. let me know what you think.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Tombstalker
3 Nantuko Shade

4 Snuff Out
3 Dismember

4 Dark Ritual
4 Mental Misstep
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

3 Null Rod

4 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Swamp

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
4 Enigineered Plague
1 Dismember

Couple of thing real quick about my choices that some may question.
Null Rod - so far has yet to become useless game one, with so many equipments flying around now, it has been a life saver with not playing any artifact removal main.
Mental Misstep - just try it. it has been clutch in saving my creatures from late game stp, also has dealt with many a sdt and vials which is fantastic.
Maelstrom Pulse - why is it not in there? that is just my preference, with this deck i like having free or almost free spells to cast, and i like my removal to be instant speed.

Thanks for any feedback.

[chocomicos]

Been testing some NPH cards in a super aggro build:


4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Dark Ritual
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geth's Verdict
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
11 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Mox Diamond
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed
SB: 4 Extirpate
SB: 3 Null Rod
SB: 3 Choke


I'm trying to forego discard (gasp!) because it's too conditional late game, and I really want greater threat density. I'll still probably try a build with it in, probably in place of Hippies/Nighthawks and Diamonds. Originally I had 4x Lacerator in place of 3x Diamond and 1x Nighthawk just to smooth out the curve, but I'm trying to see if Diamonds are worth the tradeoff of potential dead draws for better creatures earlier. Geth's Verdict has been really spectacular, and running Obliterator + wastelands hasn't been a problem since I'm counting Wasteland as a spell, so there are plenty of black sources available.
This seems the better list i've looked so far.
I'm trying some crazy techs, here is my actual list.


4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Swamp
3 Forest

1 Life from the Loam
3 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Beast Within
2 Dismember
3 Go for the Throat

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Terravore
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Vengevine
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Scryb Ranger

SB: 1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
SB: 1 Sylvan Safekeeper
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 Ghastly Demise


I would like to turn it into a junk with reliquarys, but i still don't have the money to buy maze/karakas and scrublands/savannahs :(

I pretty like this list yet, the most problematic so far is the slots.
My review following >
-Kiss my ass mental misstep.
-GSZ resolves problems tutoring creatures.
-Mox is awesome, doing bob, hymn to tourach, openmana for removal or a wastelock with the loam is a marvelous openning.
-Scryb is for ramping mana for 2 creatures in same turn, stopping coralhelms and other blue shit, tricks with dryad, and flash untapping the monsters for teh lulz
-Glissa is awesome, GSZ 4 manas and you control the game.
-Vengevine cause i missed some haste, and it comes back.
-Nighthawk solves the flying problem, and some life dmg with bob/fetchs.
-Jitte is a monster, win a lot of aggro games.
-Terravore is way bigger than their reliquarys, and he tramples ftw, you just need to deal plowshers and maze of iths.
-I'm testing beast within, it doesn't act much better than pulse, but can kill a stupid Iona/JTMS and bring you back in the game.
-Dryad is 50/50, you risk a misstep on ramp, you have a loamed chumpblock, and you trade a land for bob/lackey.
-Dismember is same shit as snuff out?
-I miss Shriekmaw
-I can't run persecutor, tombstalker or obliterator :(

also props for:
loam and volrath (they love you if you love them)
phyrexian revoker (they do rule)
sylvan safekeeper (terravore hates plowshers)
cold-eyed (merfolks are easier if you infiltrate)
gaddock teeg (save your ass from progenitus)

slops:
smother, cause if you have dismember, gftt and demise you don't need em
I'm not using krosan grip
2 kozileks :(
Pernicious Deed sometimes doesn't like me at all
gawblins and jaces, they give me headaches.

[chocomicos]

Hi, this is me again :D
I've played today and i got a tl;mr report.
This is the list i've played, and basically i focused on merfolks/landstill/mirror-junk/affinity/dredge matches.


4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Life from the Loam
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mox Diamond

1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Terravore

4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Go for the Throat
2 Consuming Vapors
2 Dismember
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Sword of Body and Mind

SB: 1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 2 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 Ghastly Demise
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Yixlid Jailer


6 rounds and i played folks, folks, green and taxes, team italia, junk, folks, ended 4-2.
Merfolks who i've lost made top4, and green and taxes wich was my friend made top2, so i consider a good standing due to the field.


Merfolks 1-0
G1: i knew him too, he played first island cursecatcher, i thought he was with spiral tide but when i saw the cursecatcher i saw the light of keeping mana mana goyf confidant goyf swbm gftt. stomped!
G2: he sided in kira, metamorph and sower, i bring deed and selkie.
stomp again, besides i made a safekeeper and he couldn't target me with sower any more, the metamorph copied a 19/19 terravore but goyf with swbm and 2 tokens dealed with fishes.
*props for safekeeper, swbm and consuming vapors

Merfolks 1-1
G1: he flooded fishes and a kira, i played confidant/goyf/glissa but i didn't found any answer to 2 coralhelms.
G2: he flooded all his shit again, i played one goyf just to block some shit untill he had 5 folks, 2 mutavaults and 1 vial, then DEED deal it dirty, followed by 2 wastelands and a goyf.
G3: bob didn't drew me nothing, i watched 2 coralhelms 5/5 and a kira rollover bob and nighthawk, lost with wasteland, loam, bayou, fetch on hand and 5 lands on play.
*slops for dismember badly played on G3, didn't killed a reejery cause he sac the cursecatcher and i was tapped (DOH). and loam on g3, he had 4 islands and the coralhelms stomped me :(

green and taxes 1-2
G1: mana mox hymn to tourach, hymn to tourach again, he plowshered a goyf, plowshered goyf again, i killed a mangara, and he played two 6/6 reliquarys with no hand left, maelstrom pulse followed by terravore.
G2: flooded, draw loam and 8 lands with confidant, and watched a mirran crusader on t3...
G3: he started with mother, i killed, another mother, died again, now he put the mangara, that bitch died too, then he puts qasali qasali, stoneforge for swff and a mirran crusader. G_G
*slops: metamorph and consuming vapors i've never found. and g2 bob who give a fuck to me :(

team italia 2-2
G1: mana mana mox waste loam gftt goyf > wastelock
G2: he outplayed his hand, i stopped a batterskull with glissa, we traded some removals, and then i pulsed two figure of destinys, costing him the game with a sworded goyf, two tokens and a giant terravore rawr.
*props: Sword who feeds goyf and terravore RAWR :3

junk 3-2
G1: he outplayed his hand while i hymn to tourached a SWFF, chumpblock some creatures till i found a deed who put a trampled path all the way to terravore, goyf, terravore, rawr :3
G2: had some damage with 2 qasalis, some waste and demise here, then hymn to tourached his SWFF again, after this on draw go he put a crusader with deed on table, then a consuming vapors deal with a reliquary, and got me time to play a nighthawk and swbm, he went down to 2 of life and draw a plowshers but, i still had a token, thats game :D
*props vapors/hymn/demises/token again

merfolks 4-2
G1: i smiled again when i saw vial island, my hand was goyf goyf bob bob mana mana gftt. bought the sword and game.
G2: i was tired and kept an awful hand with waste mox mox goyf hymn bob bob, 4 draws and scoop for the lulz
G3: zenith for 3 (hmm ok), glissa (oh shit face), followed by a mean selkie 2/2 who bought me 2 nighthawks and a goyf :3
*props selkie and glissa


### Well, my final review about everything ###
Body and mind is the shit ARRRRRR
"What this green elf(sic) does? - laugh now cry later"
loam got me just 1 game, which i could have won by other ways.
i've risked a sideboard for dredges which were useless
2 extirpates and 2 metamorphs NEVER showed up, i inted to use 3 of them.
glissa deals with equipments better than crazy grips.
i didn't missed the thoughtseizes/kozileks i used to play.
dismember is good but far away from be as good as plowshers. also because i had too many fetchs and the bob drawback sometimes punished me, nighthawks and consuming vapors didn't saved me games i needed.
the only mental misstep i tooked was from green and taxes for a ghastly demise (LOL)

#and (ta dah) lessons learned:
must never keep 2 moxes and 2 lands, or any hands with 2 or less useless lands.
your deck doesn't answer well to an equiped mirran crusader :(
pulse is way better than beast within
SWBM did better than Jitte (believe me, it did)
wastelock is cool but loam doesn't garantee the game unless you found a volrath. but i've played all wastelands correctly from what i remember.
cursecatchers counter stupid dismembers you dumbass
your deck miss sensei tops
and your deck miss plowshers

end, ;) thanks for reading, sorry about the english.

[KobeBryan]

This deck is more The Rock than Eva Green. But congrats.

Looks like Eva Green has a new toy out...Skinshifter.

[Tsnowflake]

Skinshifter seems good. 4/4 trampler turn 3? Hell yes. Potential to be evasive to swing in with equips? Another resounding hell yes.

The question becomes, is he worth constantly using up :g: for? Most games you will only have 2 or 3 land out so you will have to weigh using your bayou to attack with Skinshifter, or playing Hymn etc...

Also the fact that he returns to a 1/1 EOT makes him susceptible to stuff like Darkblast/Lightning Bolt must be considered.

Not saying the card is bad by any means, just some food for thought.

[chocomicos]

did you saw the Eva Green by Jacob Simmons?
despite the discards i think the list is good, i just don't know if 8 fetchs, 4 seizes, 4 bobs, 4 blossoms and 2 dismembers works that well, they seems too suicidal for me.
i was curious about the mishras, wanted to know if they worked good, and he runned them with just a loam on SB.


about the skinshifter he looked pretty harmless to me, 1 tap for turn isn't a good deal unless you have the backup of a block like blossom or you are in a good attack position, also i think the hydra is more powerfull than him if the opponent have to deal with a lot of problems.
here in brazil people started to run a lot of SWFF, considering that and the fact he isn't that offensive, cutting out 1 mana each turn to get a 4/4 trample or a 0/8 block in legacy is horrible, and the morph hability is pretty contornable with an instant response or better creatures.

[KobeBryan]

did you saw the Eva Green by Jacob Simmons?
despite the discards i think the list is good, i just don't know if 8 fetchs, 4 seizes, 4 bobs, 4 blossoms and 2 dismembers works that well, they seems too suicidal for me.
i was curious about the mishras, wanted to know if they worked good, and he runned them with just a loam on SB.


about the skinshifter he looked pretty harmless to me, 1 tap for turn isn't a good deal unless you have the backup of a block like blossom or you are in a good attack position, also i think the hydra is more powerfull than him if the opponent have to deal with a lot of problems.
here in brazil people started to run a lot of SWFF, considering that and the fact he isn't that offensive, cutting out 1 mana each turn to get a 4/4 trample or a 0/8 block in legacy is horrible, and the morph hability is pretty contornable with an instant response or better creatures.

I actually don't like his 4 bitterblossom build. I dont' see the point in having the bitterblossoms. Its very slow and doesn't fit the speed of this deck. They are basically chump blockers.

I also feel that since he is running bitterblossoms, he isn't running enough equipment to handle the life loss of bitter blossom.

[chocomicos]

I actually don't like his 4 bitterblossom build. I dont' see the point in having the bitterblossoms. Its very slow and doesn't fit the speed of this deck. They are basically chump blockers.

I also feel that since he is running bitterblossoms, he isn't running enough equipment to handle the life loss of bitter blossom.
considering 8 fetchs, 4 bobs, 4 blossom, 4 seizes and 2 dismembers, i don't think he lost any game, he lost to himself lol... And there is too much discard on his list.

Since i run mox, i have the ocasional advantage of playing goyf/bob/hymn turn one. Or sac a mox to pump a Goyf later.

I'm thinking on running SWFF and SWBM on maindeck, and give Jitte some rest.

[Tsnowflake]

Jitte and Mask of Memory are the equips of choice for this deck IMO. Jitte has the ability to act as removal, makes your beaters bigger, and can net you life. Its just so versatile. Mask nets you insane CA if you're gettin in there, ends the game that much quicker. Don't forget that these are 2cc meaning they come out faster. I've won plenty of games due to this sheer speed.

If you are going to run any other equip I would say SoFI is the next choice. Again can act as removal, can ping for 2 to the dome for some reach, and the CA is nice.

[KobeBryan]

Jitte and Mask of Memory are the equips of choice for this deck IMO. Jitte has the ability to act as removal, makes your beaters bigger, and can net you life. Its just so versatile. Mask nets you insane CA if you're gettin in there, ends the game that much quicker. Don't forget that these are 2cc meaning they come out faster. I've won plenty of games due to this sheer speed.

If you are going to run any other equip I would say SoFI is the next choice. Again can act as removal, can ping for 2 to the dome for some reach, and the CA is nice.

Mask of Memory is actually very good in this deck. 9 out of 10 times, you need to get some card advantage. Your bob never stays in battle anyways.

However, I don't know how Jacob did it, but running Eva green in this meta kinda sucks right now. There's too much control out there for Eva Green to be viable.

[chocomicos]

Mask of Memory is actually very good in this deck. 9 out of 10 times, you need to get some card advantage. Your bob never stays in battle anyways.

However, I don't know how Jacob did it, but running Eva green in this meta kinda sucks right now. There's too much control out there for Eva Green to be viable.
I introduce you:

Sylvan Safekeeper

[KobeBryan]

I introduce you:

Sylvan Safekeeper


Nah. Not wasting card slots for that.

[Tsnowflake]

I introduce you:

Sylvan Safekeeper


Why not just run Lightning Greaves if targeted removal is what you are afraid of?

The issue is mostly with being countered imo so if anything Vexing Shusher is more relevant. Not that i think the card is good in this deck anyways,

[chocomicos]

Nah. Not wasting card slots for that.
I found him way more efficient then mask of memory.
But if you are friendly with equipments try the greaves snowflake recommended :)

[KobeBryan]

I found him way more efficient then mask of memory.
But if you are friendly with equipments try the greaves snowflake recommended :)

I am also not too fond of mask of memory. it was just a thought. i rather just run bigger threats.

[Tsnowflake]

I found him way more efficient then mask of memory.
But if you are friendly with equipments try the greaves snowflake recommended :)

Sorry this makes no sense to me. Every time you use his ability it sets you back a turn, which is pretty devastating early game. Can you explain to me how he is so efficient? He at best gives you 1 for 1 trade (their spell which fizzles to your land). Mask on the other hand will dig two cards deep, add in your draw for the turn and you are seeing 3 cards a turn, even though you have to discard one with mask, the CA is insane. Even more insane if the creature you are hitting them with is Hypnotic Specter.

If you were trying to make the comparison between Safekeeper and Lightning Greaves then that still makes no sense since:
A. Lightning Greaves is only a turn slower and can be equipped right away and gives haste.
B. Lightning Greaves gives your beaters lasting immunity as opposed to sacrificing a land every time.

Is there something I'm missing about Safekeeper that makes him great that I'm just not seeing?

[chocomicos]

Sorry this makes no sense to me. Every time you use his ability it sets you back a turn, which is pretty devastating early game. Can you explain to me how he is so efficient? He at best gives you 1 for 1 trade (their spell which fizzles to your land). Mask on the other hand will dig two cards deep, add in your draw for the turn and you are seeing 3 cards a turn, even though you have to discard one with mask, the CA is insane. Even more insane if the creature you are hitting them with is Hypnotic Specter.

If you were trying to make the comparison between Safekeeper and Lightning Greaves then that still makes no sense since:
A. Lightning Greaves is only a turn slower and can be equipped right away and gives haste.
B. Lightning Greaves gives your beaters lasting immunity as opposed to sacrificing a land every time.

Is there something I'm missing about Safekeeper that makes him great that I'm just not seeing?
Safekeeper is tutorable with GSZ, 1 greaves is not.
I run a deck with confidants and terravores and he keep them pretty safe in table, also being usefull as a finisher pump for terravore.
I usually stops bolts, plowshers, vindicates, dismembers, and so far a sower, only the metamorph i couldn't do anything about, he also can stop a Maze of Ith if wasteland doesn't.
And well, he shares the same good reason as bob, he is a creature, and you can also equip a sword/jitte on him.
He doesn't call too much attention by beeing a 1/1 green creature that no one knows, untill you avoid every spot removal sacrificing lands you don't need.

See, he isn't like a goblin guide or a madre or a lackey, you need a solid strategy to run a game over him.

Mask is slow, eva green isn't that aggro that you can opt for beat down for a card advantage, and even if you draw it in the midgame it won't be that great success. You will have the card advantage but sometimes not the time.
Safekeeper is pontual and usefull. If you make a GSZ for ONE, people will make "WTF?" faces.

[chocomicos]

sorry, that double posted :(

*EDIT
there it go, a good news.
http://i.imgur.com/6Klyz.jpg

[Tsnowflake]

Safekeeper is tutorable with GSZ, 1 greaves is not.
I run a deck with confidants and terravores and he keep them pretty safe in table, also being usefull as a finisher pump for terravore.
I usually stops bolts, plowshers, vindicates, dismembers, and so far a sower, only the metamorph i couldn't do anything about, he also can stop a Maze of Ith if wasteland doesn't.
And well, he shares the same good reason as bob, he is a creature, and you can also equip a sword/jitte on him.
He doesn't call too much attention by beeing a 1/1 green creature that no one knows, untill you avoid every spot removal sacrificing lands you don't need.

See, he isn't like a goblin guide or a madre or a lackey, you need a solid strategy to run a game over him.

Mask is slow, eva green isn't that aggro that you can opt for beat down for a card advantage, and even if you draw it in the midgame it won't be that great success. You will have the card advantage but sometimes not the time.
Safekeeper is pontual and usefull. If you make a GSZ for ONE, people will make "WTF?" faces.

Ah ok i just saw your list and he is a much better fit there. Your list is very non traditional btw, it seems really close to Maverick. Not that thats a bad thing or anything.

[maurobad2k4]

sorry, that double posted :(

*EDIT
there it go, a good news.
http://i.imgur.com/6Klyz.jpg

I dont think its playable in Eva Green... Triple Green seems really hard to get.

[KobeBryan]

I dont think its playable in Eva Green... Triple Green seems really hard to get.

Not only the triple green, but 5 mana.

[KobeBryan]

I dont think its playable in Eva Green... Triple Green seems really hard to get.

Not only the triple green, but 5 mana.

[maurobad2k4]

Not only the triple green, but 5 mana.

Yeah, that too.

[KobeBryan]

The meta right now is very favorable for a good eva green finish.

Lots of multicolor decks where sinkholes and land destruction is key here.

Combo is at a all time low. the only thing left is control. Eva green has many options to pick control apart.

[Greenpoe]

The meta right now is very favorable for a good eva green finish.

Aren't you the guy who gave up on Eva and switched to The Rock 2 pages ago? :tongue:

I'm not sure Sinkholes are smart right now. On one side, you've got free spells, Vial, and GSZ/Hierarch decks making Sinkhole bad, and on the other, you've got more mana-intensive decks from Jace and Stoneforge. I'm sticking with the Hypnotic Specter plan for now, with zero slots dedicated solely to creature kill (instead, Gatekeeper/Nighthawk/Pulse/Deed can serve that purpose). I'm running 2 Nantuko Shade and 3 Tomb Stalker, just to keep the aggression level high enough and make good use of mid/late game Rituals.

[KobeBryan]

Aren't you the guy who gave up on Eva and switched to The Rock 2 pages ago? :tongue:

I'm not sure Sinkholes are smart right now. On one side, you've got free spells, Vial, and GSZ/Hierarch decks making Sinkhole bad, and on the other, you've got more mana-intensive decks from Jace and Stoneforge. I'm sticking with the Hypnotic Specter plan for now, with zero slots dedicated solely to creature kill (instead, Gatekeeper/Nighthawk/Pulse/Deed can serve that purpose). I'm running 2 Nantuko Shade and 3 Tomb Stalker, just to keep the aggression level high enough and make good use of mid/late game Rituals.

Yup thats me. I went with The Rock and got a 2-4 finish.

Krosan Grip is a very very good MD choice right now. Its so good, it can play 3 in the MD.

[KobeBryan]

Here is the new decklist.

suggestions are welcomed.


Creatures (16)
4x dark confidant
3x gatekeeper of malikar
3x vampire nighthawk
2x tombstalker
4x tarmogoyf

Sorcery (12)
4x hymn to tourach
4x thoughtseize
1x inquisition of kolizek
3x maelstrom pulse

artifacts/enchantments (7)
2x umezawa's jitte
2x pernicious deed
3x bitterblossom

Instants (5)
2x krosan grip
3x smothers

Lands (21)
1x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4x swamps
4x bayou
1x forest
3x marsh flats
4x verdant catacombs
4x wastelands

Sideboard (15)
3x phyrexian revoker
3x engineered plauge
4x extirpate
1x tormod's crypt
1x pernicious deed
1x krosan grip
1x geth's verdict
1x go for the throat



Total of 61 cards. the deck is much slower without dark rituals. but the thing is I get really good top decks (of course there are land flood issues). Also, getting triple blacks have been a bit of a problem.

[Tsnowflake]

bob with Tombstalker is risky, bob is always good, but risky for my tastes. Even though you run only 2, I still don't feel its worth it.

If you wanted to get to 60 cards you could probably cut the 1 of Inquisition of Kolizek.

I have noticed a lot of the newer lists cut Dark Rituals. I will have to do my own testing with a ritual-less build.

Your list looks pretty solid though. Let us know how the Krosan Grips MD work out for you.

[KobeBryan]

bob with Tombstalker is risky, bob is always good, but risky for my tastes. Even though you run only 2, I still don't feel its worth it.

If you wanted to get to 60 cards you could probably cut the 1 of Inquisition of Kolizek.

I have noticed a lot of the newer lists cut Dark Rituals. I will have to do my own testing with a ritual-less build.

Your list looks pretty solid though. Let us know how the Krosan Grips MD work out for you.

Thanks...I think running 61 isn't that big of a difference since i'm going 21 lands.

On the Tombstalker topic, I actually like rolling the dice on this one. However, because we cut rituals out of the deck, the deck doesn't fill the graveyard as fast. So tombstalkers in hand is only good for a mid game push. I actually had games where i held on to two stalkers and didn't cast it due to the mana costs. However, the jitte won the game for me.

The biggest problem I have now are the three engineered plagues in the board. I don't really like it.

[Greenpoe]

Wouldn't you rather cut the Smothers for the 4th Gatekeeper and 4th Nighthawk and 4th Pulse? I know these are 3cc solutions, but IMO versatility and CA is pretty cool.

[chocomicos]

if you wanna run bob+blossom+discards, use abyssal persecutor and cabal therapy instead of tombstalker and seize.
i would run 4 blossoms instead of 3.
on draw-go your deck is fragile, and you also don't have sensei top to fix that.
i would run an adittional sword light and shadow or feast and femine with the 2 jittes.

[KobeBryan]

Wouldn't you rather cut the Smothers for the 4th Gatekeeper and 4th Nighthawk and 4th Pulse? I know these are 3cc solutions, but IMO versatility and CA is pretty cool.

no way. The instant speed is very important. And the three mana costs is very very difficult. heck, you cannot even stop a lacky until turn 3 at sorcery speed and turn 3 on the play.


if you wanna run bob+blossom+discards, use abyssal persecutor and cabal therapy instead of tombstalker and seize.
i would run 4 blossoms instead of 3.
on draw-go your deck is fragile, and you also don't have sensei top to fix that.
i would run an adittional sword light and shadow or feast and femine with the 2 jittes.

That is stepping into the gate territory. I am actually not even sold on the bitterblossom route. I think its the slowest card in the deck by far.

[chocomicos]

run 2 Phyrexian Obliterator and 3 Dark Rituals then ;P
you have like 11 G only on the deck, and your side doesn't even run choke.

[KobeBryan]

run 2 Phyrexian Obliterator and 3 Dark Rituals then ;P
you have like 11 G only on the deck, and your side doesn't even run choke.

The purpose is to really avoid playing cards that would be dead mid to late game.

thats why the dark ritual and the sinkholes are gone.

I ran choke in the side once. It was pathetic.

[Tsnowflake]

The purpose is to really avoid playing cards that would be dead mid to late game.

thats why the dark ritual and the sinkholes are gone.

I ran choke in the side once. It was pathetic.

I agree, choke used to be amazing, but these days not so much.

While we are on the topic of sideboards, heres mine

SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Pithing Needle

Crypt/Leyline: for all Life From The Loam based decks, dredge/Ichorid, and Reanimator.

Plague: for Goblins, and the Mermaids.

KGrip: self explanatory

Pithing Needle: I am torn between this and Phyrexian Revoker. Revoker dodges Mental Misstep, but sometimes you just really need that first turn denial.

[KobeBryan]

I agree, choke used to be amazing, but these days not so much.

While we are on the topic of sideboards, heres mine

SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Pithing Needle

Crypt/Leyline: for all Life From The Loam based decks, dredge/Ichorid, and Reanimator.

Plague: for Goblins, and the Mermaids.

KGrip: self explanatory

Pithing Needle: I am torn between this and Phyrexian Revoker. Revoker dodges Mental Misstep, but sometimes you just really need that first turn denial.

revoker any day of the week in this deck. Remember this is a suicide deck. You will die if you don't keep throwing out threats with board presence.

I honestly think you are running too much grave yard hate. You should run extirpate. At least you can use extirpate against mutlitple decks, ie. blue control, landstill, jacestill, loam, dredge..

tormods and leyline will only be used against loam and dredge.

[Greenpoe]

revoker any day of the week in this deck. Remember this is a suicide deck. You will die if you don't keep through out threats with board presence.

Revoker is build dependent though. If you have enough removal to reliably connect with non-evasive creatures like Gatekeeper and Bob, then Revoker is great. Otherwise, the body and the 2 CMC is more of a liability than Needle's vulnerability to Misstep.

[KobeBryan]

I think the sideboard needs two null rods

4x extirpate
1x nihil spellbomb
1x go for the throat
1x geth's verdict
3x revokers
1x krosan grip
1x pernicious deed

for the last three slots, I am thinking either 3 engineered plague, but these are pathetic too since there isn't that many goblins. Merfolk isn't really a problem for this deck. The only thing that is annoying is jacestill, landstill. I'm thinking either 2 null rod and another duress

or

2 chains of mephistopheles and 1 duress.

Can't decide on the last 3 cards.

[Tsnowflake]

I don't like running Extirpate. Almost every deck can play around it, where as Leyline just ends them until they can answer it. With ritual even if they bounce or destroy your Leyline, you can have another one out as early as turn 2. I've won many a game where it takes them 3-4 turns to handle it, only to have it back in their face the next turn.

I am however gonna drop the tomb's in favor of some more removal via GftT and Geth's Verdict.

[KobeBryan]

I don't like running Extirpate. Almost every deck can play around it, where as Leyline just ends them until they can answer it. With ritual even if they bounce or destroy your Leyline, you can have another one out as early as turn 2. I've won many a game where it takes them 3-4 turns to handle it, only to have it back in their face the next turn.

I am however gonna drop the tomb's in favor of some more removal via GftT and Geth's Verdict.

how do you play around extirpate any more than playing around leyline? I really prefer extirpate since its viable in more decks than leyline.

so the last question.

2 null rods and duress

or

2 chains of mephistopeles and duress

[Tsnowflake]

how do you play around extirpate any more than playing around leyline? I really prefer extirpate since its viable in more decks than leyline.



Extirpate doesn't affect the board state so it doesn't really cause any sort of tempo swing unless you are lucky and are able to strip more copies of X card right from their hand. By that same token, Extirpate is usually just -1 CA for you, this is especially bad if you are in a match up where you want to Extirpate early and don't get it in your opening hand. Do you mulligan for it? If so you are pretty much at -2 off the bat, -1 from mull and -1 from Extirpate. The decks where Extirpate is best, namely Dredge and Loam, can play around it VERY easily. Theres no single card you can remove which really kills either deck.

For Dredge, Extirpate targets:
Bridge-->Ichorid-->Nacro; but they still have a bunch of fatties they can Dread Return to win the game.

For Loam:
Loam itself is the most obvious and probably the best target. While it will slow them down, it doesnt stop them for crushing you with Terravores, Crushers, Goyfs etc...

I would say 1 match where its good to have Extirpate is Hivemind/SnT. If you can hit an intuition or SnT it can slow them down drastically, but even then its not guaranteed as they still have the chance to hardcast a Hivemind.

I think the problem with Extirpate is that its not reliable, and thus it is for all intents and purposes a dice roll whenever its played.

As a pure GY hate card its bad, its just outclassed by Leyline and Crypt and even Relic of Progenitus. These cards force the opponent to radically alter their game plan. With Crypt and Relic they have to bait you into activating, thus comitting a good portion of their resources already. Leyline is just a "answer me now or lose" type of card.


2 null rods and duress


I'd go with that, Null Rod is surprisingly useful.

[Tsnowflake]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/22260_Eternal_Europe_Adaption_In_Action.html

Eva Green by Jacob Simmons, List that made top 8

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Terravore
3 Vampire Nighthawk

2 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
1 Smother

2 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize

4 Bitterblossom

1 Forest
2 Swamp

4 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Shriekmaw
3 Choke
1 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
2 Extirpate
1 Go for the Throat
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Duress
1 Life from the Loam


Also what do people think of Hunter's Insight? I think its very situational but the ability to draw 5+ cards off of a Goyf or Tombstalker slap is so so tempting lol.

[from Cairo]

Also what do people think of Hunter's Insight? I think its very situational but the ability to draw 5+ cards off of a Goyf or Tombstalker slap is so so tempting lol.

Perfect example of win-more.

[KobeBryan]

Perfect example of win-more.

You say extirpate doesn't do anything for board presence. This one is worse.

[Tsnowflake]

You say extirpate doesn't do anything for board presence. This one is worse.

Brainstorm, Ponder, and Thoughtcast don't do anything for board presence either, but they provided amazing utility and CA, CA being what Hunter's Insight does and a shit ton of it at that. Extirpate does nothing for board presence AND is card disadvantage AND is likely to not really

It seems like you just want to use Extirpate, maybe you can provide reasons why you think its better than other cards? Kinda hard to discuss something when you just state Extirpate is good and then dismiss any other input with no reasoning what so ever.


Perfect example of win-more.

For the record I'm not saying hunter's insight is good, but it remains to be fully tested. I think 4-5 cards for 3 mana is pretty good. It might not be the most efficient but it certainly isn't a win more, unless you are implying that every time a creature hits you win.

[KobeBryan]

Brainstorm, Ponder, and Thoughtcast don't do anything for board presence either, but they provided amazing utility and CA, CA being what Hunter's Insight does and a shit ton of it at that. Extirpate does nothing for board presence AND is card disadvantage AND is likely to not really

It seems like you just want to use Extirpate, maybe you can provide reasons why you think its better than other cards? Kinda hard to discuss something when you just state Extirpate is good and then dismiss any other input with no reasoning what so ever.



For the record I'm not saying hunter's insight is good, but it remains to be fully tested. I think 4-5 cards for 3 mana is pretty good. It might not be the most efficient but it certainly isn't a win more, unless you are implying that every time a creature hits you win.

I never dismissed ur arguments about leyline and other grave hate cards.

I just believe that because leyline, crypt, and spellbomb, relic are very limited in the deck battles. You can only use it against 2 decks really. Dredge and loam.

Extirpate, you can use it in many more decks. Though the power is not as strong as the leylines, crypts and spellbombs to empty an entire graveyard, but it has the power to remove the most power threats against you. Also, extirpate is very very good against counterbalance, jacestill, landstill, and other control decks. Whereas, leyline and crypt won't be used against these decks at all.

Just saying.

[Greenpoe]

Phyrexian Arena>Hunter's Insight. Just like BB, Phyrexian Arena does a great job in the attrition war. I like using it as Bob 5-6.

[KobeBryan]

Phyrexian Arena>Hunter's Insight. Just like BB, Phyrexian Arena does a great job in the attrition war. I like using it as Bob 5-6.

Forget bomb 5-6. I say 4 bobs and then just drop more creatures to fight.

This deck is not a reactive deck. The power of this deck and the purpose of this deck is the ability to lay threats constantly each turn. Don't play reactive, otherwise you lose.

Sometimes I feel people overemphasize on this card advantage issue too much. I know Card advantage wins games, but sometimes card advantage doesn't do anything when you can't lay a threat out on the board.

[Greenpoe]

Forget bomb 5-6. I say 4 bobs and then just drop more creatures to fight.

This deck is not a reactive deck. The power of this deck and the purpose of this deck is the ability to lay threats constantly each turn. Don't play reactive, otherwise you lose.
That's a great argument. Let me try. Smother is too reactive, therefore it is bad. Wasteland is too reactive, therefore it is bad.
Oh wait, you're argument is using incorrect generalizations about deck philosophy. If Arena is too slow for you, that's fine, but Eva Green is extremely reactive, especially your build. You maindeck Deed, Krosan Grip, Smother AND Pulse? Talk about reactive! If you actually though Eva Green was a proactive deck that avoided being reactive as much as possible, you'd run a full set of Gatekeepers and Nighthawks instead of reactive cards.

I get that Eva Green should be proactive, but black can't be all that aggressive these days. Other than Tombdaddy and Goyf, Eva's creatures have 2 or less power.

[KobeBryan]

That's a great argument. Let me try. Smother is too reactive, therefore it is bad. Wasteland is too reactive, therefore it is bad.
Oh wait, you're argument is using incorrect generalizations about deck philosophy. If Arena is too slow for you, that's fine, but Eva Green is extremely reactive, especially your build. You maindeck Deed, Krosan Grip, Smother AND Pulse? Talk about reactive! If you actually though Eva Green was a proactive deck that avoided being reactive as much as possible, you'd run a full set of Gatekeepers and Nighthawks instead of reactive junk. No offense, just pointing out a mediocre argument.

I get that Eva Green should be proactive, but black can't be all that aggressive these days. Other than Tombdaddy and Goyf, Eva's creatures have 2 or less power.

Let me set this straight. The main focus of the deck is a proactive deck. Of course you have cards to answer some of their threats, otherwise you'd just be trading the opponent turn after turn.

Compare eva green to the rock. Eva Green is made to put the opponent on their heels, while the rock requires that you dig your deck for answers to whatever threat they have, ie. green sun zenith to teeg or quasali, Knights of the Reliquary to karakas.

In Eva Green, you don't have that luxury. You either have to beat his face or you lose.

[from Cairo]

For the record I'm not saying hunter's insight is good, but it remains to be fully tested. I think 4-5 cards for 3 mana is pretty good. It might not be the most efficient but it certainly isn't a win more, unless you are implying that every time a creature hits you win.

I'm fairly confidant Sylvan Library and Phyrexian Arena are both significantly better than it. Probably something like Night's Whisper or Skeletal Scrying too for that matter. By win-more I mean it's situational card draw that's only active when you're connecting with an opposing player (which in a creature based agro deck would be the means by which one is winning); it's never going to dig you out of a neutral or losing situation where the board's clogged, or where you're opponent has superior board presence, etc.

[chocomicos]

Use extirpate AND mental misstep on sideboard, and thanks me for the hint.

[KobeBryan]

Without the power of ritual, the deck has been very very slow.

I think we should playtest a 3 of chrome mox. It might help a bit.

[lyracian]

Without the power of ritual, the deck has been very very slow.

I think we should playtest a 3 of chrome mox. It might help a bit.

From your previous deck, on the last page, what you replace for the Moxen? inquisition of kolizek seems an easy card to drop but then it seems like taking out one of the artifacts/enchantments pairs to make room for the other two.

[KobeBryan]

From your previous deck, on the last page, what you replace for the Moxen? inquisition of kolizek seems an easy card to drop but then it seems like taking out one of the artifacts/enchantments pairs to make room for the other two.

I haven't decided yet. I feel that its pretty slow right now.

Turn 1 Thoughtseize. Turn 2 hymn.

While against bant, they would turn 1 noble, turn 2 rhox. Turn 3 natural order. game

[KobeBryan]

Anyone have good ideas on how to beat NO Bant, NO Rug, NO Bug.

These decks are giving me fits.

[Schembo]

Anyone have good ideas on how to beat NO Bant, NO Rug, NO Bug.

These decks are giving me fits.

Phyrexian Crusader. Crusader got protections for stop, lavamancer, Rhox War Monk, Qasali Pridemage etc.. and tarmo needs to be at least 4/5 to trade with crusader. Fast progenitus is problematic but you have gatekeepers and from sideboard perishs/edicts in 2dn and 3th game.

I myself play 3 crusader in md and got first and second place on last tournaments i played. And havent lost single game against bant and rug (2 games against bant and 1 against rug in last tournaments). Plus crusader handles zoo almost alone.

[Tsnowflake]

What do you cut for the crusader? Can you post your list?

[chocomicos]

I used to run phyrexian crusader, he was too slow/useless on a tight game.
I prefer Nighthawks and for progenitus pack:
Consuming Vapors
It also regains a good life lost from a Dark Confidant.

[KobeBryan]

Phyrexian Crusader. Crusader got protections for stop, lavamancer, Rhox War Monk, Qasali Pridemage etc.. and tarmo needs to be at least 4/5 to trade with crusader. Fast progenitus is problematic but you have gatekeepers and from sideboard perishs/edicts in 2dn and 3th game.

I myself play 3 crusader in md and got first and second place on last tournaments i played. And havent lost single game against bant and rug (2 games against bant and 1 against rug in last tournaments). Plus crusader handles zoo almost alone.

Don't you find it counter productive to do infect damage to them instead?

[Schembo]

What do you cut for the crusader? Can you post your list?

I posted this couple pages ago but here we go. There is 2 flex slots and this is list with blossoms won me last tourney. There have been deeds and vapors as well in md in those slots.

4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
1 Forest

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian crusader

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Snuff Out
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
4 Engineered Plague
2 Null Rod
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Perish


Don't you find it counter productive to do infect damage to them instead?

Yes, but you cant have all in one. I would love to have wither on crusader instead of infect. although in last tourney i won both games in top8 first round against bant with poison counters :cool:

[KobeBryan]

I posted this couple pages ago but here we go. There is 2 flex slots and this is list with blossoms won me last tourney. There have been deeds and vapors as well in md in those slots.

4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
1 Forest

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian crusader

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Snuff Out
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SB:
4 Engineered Plague
2 Null Rod
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Perish



Yes, but you cant have all in one. I would love to have wither on crusader instead of infect. although in last tourney i won both games in top8 first round against bant with poison counters :cool:

congrats on the finish. However, I do not like some of the cards you used in SB. I would not use 4 Leylines as i can use extirpates against more decks like control. Engineered Plagues probably didn't do much for you since goblins are a dead deck now. Merfolk never really gets hurt from EP anyways.

I would then up the count on perish to 3 and null rod to 3. leaving room for 2 more cards.

My land count and yours is near identical. However, I get frustrated at times when i do not have the 3 blacks for gatekeeper. You run 4 gatekeepers, i run 3. Don't you find it troublesome to get that 3rd swamp? Granted I do not use dark rituals anymore.

[Schembo]

congrats on the finish. However, I do not like some of the cards you used in SB. I would not use 4 Leylines as i can use extirpates against more decks like control. Engineered Plagues probably didn't do much for you since goblins are a dead deck now. Merfolk never really gets hurt from EP anyways.

I would then up the count on perish to 3 and null rod to 3. leaving room for 2 more cards.


We have team dredge in city i live so i need to stick with my leylines (Last tourney we have 5 dredge/ 29 players). E.plague is great card but with all lords lurkin around its losing value rapidly, altought i board plagues against dredge too. First turn Ritual -> plague for illusion gives time to set up my board.

But yes, for me thos leylines are meta call and for uknown meta i might swap them for more perishes and rods. If team dredge isnt coming with me there :wink:



My land count and yours is near identical. However, I get frustrated at times when i do not have the 3 blacks for gatekeeper. You run 4 gatekeepers, i run 3. Don't you find it troublesome to get that 3rd swamp? Granted I do not use dark rituals anymore.

Yes, rituals help here greatly. Im not excited with chrome mox in this deck, its always 2 cards for 1 mana and we dont run anything that game breaking for 2 mana that is worth 1 extra card.

[KobeBryan]

You don't find rituals to be dead cards?

[Schembo]

You don't find rituals to be dead cards?

In late game yes, but same goes for chrome mox too.

[KobeBryan]

In late game yes, but same goes for chrome mox too.

Yea that is why I took all mine out. have 5-6 one drops, a bunch of two drops and three drops.

[Greenpoe]

Yea that is why I took all mine out. have 5-6 one drops, a bunch of two drops and three drops.

So adding extra discard mitigates the lack of Ritual? In other words, you're replacing mediocre topdecks with other mediocre topdecks? Early Rituals power out discard and Bob. Mid/late game Rituals power out Tombstalker, or a 2nd Stalker.

[KobeBryan]

So adding extra discard mitigates the lack of Ritual? In other words, you're replacing mediocre topdecks with other mediocre topdecks? Early Rituals power out discard and Bob. Mid/late game Rituals power out Tombstalker, or a 2nd Stalker.

the tempo has slowed down in this meta. There's no need to power something out that fast. The use of bitterblossoms help reduce the need for dark rituals.

I too was a strong believer of dark ritual. But with control being so dominant, you don't really need the rituals as much anymore. It also requires a lot of 2 for 1s, freebies to stay competitive. Ala, maelstrom pulses, bitterblossoms,

I do miss doing dark ritual, thoughtseize, hymn, but hey, you gotta evolve.

[KobeBryan]

Anyone have any suggestions against hivemind?

Especially after boarding 4 sanctity.

[Tsnowflake]

Nature's Claim from the SB is golden in that match up. Also Diabolic Edict or Geth's Verdict for Emrakul

[Richard Cheese]

Nature's Claim from the SB is golden in that match up. Also Diabolic Edict or Geth's Verdict for Emrakul

How is Nature's Claim any good against Hive Mind?

[KobeBryan]

How is Nature's Claim any good against Hive Mind?

ya it doesn't. You don't get priority before they cast pact

[chocomicos]

mana mox bob, then ramp manas and goyfs till you can pay the pact, and beat him down. and have metamorphs to clone emrakul!
there is no other choice.
also on game 2 i drop 4 hymn to tourachs to put 3 metamorphs and 1 cold-eyed selkie. He normally expects discards, and you punch him in the face.

[Shimi]

How is Nature's Claim any good against Hive Mind?

Destroying White Leylines.

[KobeBryan]

mana mox bob, then ramp manas and goyfs till you can pay the pact, and beat him down. and have metamorphs to clone emrakul!
there is no other choice.
also on game 2 i drop 4 hymn to tourachs to put 3 metamorphs and 1 cold-eyed selkie. He normally expects discards, and you punch him in the face.

metamorphs only fight emrukal not pact

[chocomicos]

metamorphs only fight emrukal not pact
i know that
but they also fight progenitus, vendilion and mirran crusader.

[Tsnowflake]

How is Nature's Claim any good against Hive Mind?

Blows up Leyline of Sanctity, which opens him up to discard.
Blows up Grim Monolith, which can buy you precious turns.

[KobeBryan]

Blows up Leyline of Sanctity, which opens him up to discard.
Blows up Grim Monolith, which can buy you precious turns.

so you would use nature's claim over krosan?

[Tsnowflake]

If you don't have Krosan in your opening hand you will likely want to mulligan for it as hivemind goes off fast. Every time you mulligan you risk not getting enough mana to play krosan by turn 3, natures claim can be played off of 1 land. Krosan is actually better in that it can't be countered, but I don't like praying that its in my opening 7. Thats my $0.02 on the matter anyways.

[KobeBryan]

If you don't have Krosan in your opening hand you will likely want to mulligan for it as hivemind goes off fast. Every time you mulligan you risk not getting enough mana to play krosan by turn 3, natures claim can be played off of 1 land. Krosan is actually better in that it can't be countered, but I don't like praying that its in my opening 7. Thats my $0.02 on the matter anyways.

People tend to run 3 spells for artifact removal. krosan grips are a must, that should be a 2 of...so you have 1 nature's claim in the board?

[Tsnowflake]

I'm experimenting with 4 nature's claim 0 grips in board right now.

my SB as of now:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Nature's Claim
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Geth's Verdict
2 Pernicious Deed

[KobeBryan]

I'm experimenting with 4 nature's claim 0 grips in board right now.

my SB as of now:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Nature's Claim
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Geth's Verdict
2 Pernicious Deed

i say ditch the needles and go null rod. just as effective but for jace.

how's ur MD?

[Tsnowflake]

i say ditch the needles and go null rod. just as effective but for jace.

how's ur MD?

oh the reason i run needles is that i play against alot of landstill. its useful for stopping jace and man lands.

MD is

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Ritual
4 Snuff Out
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
1 Forest
8 Swamp
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Phyrexian Arena

[KobeBryan]

oh the reason i run needles is that i play against alot of landstill. its useful for stopping jace and man lands.

MD is

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Ritual
4 Snuff Out
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
1 Forest
8 Swamp
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Phyrexian Arena

oo u got a very old school build. how do you like it in this control filled meta?

[Tsnowflake]

Its too hard for eva to win. You have to walk all your early spells into counters just so that you have a chance of resolving something later. I try to focus on discard first 3 turns, then hopefully they have exhausted the counters in their first 9-10 cards and I try to resolve an arena or a threat. Arena first if possible since even if a threat makes it to the board then they might have StP or PtE waiting.

I run arena because everyone knows -8 from bob revealing tombstalker sucks, but mostly its because I never get more than 1 card out of bob since he is killed in short order. Where as if I resolve arena, its there for pretty much the whole game, and when arena is out I usually win.

[KobeBryan]

Its too hard for eva to win. You have to walk all your early spells into counters just so that you have a chance of resolving something later. I try to focus on discard first 3 turns, then hopefully they have exhausted the counters in their first 9-10 cards and I try to resolve an arena or a threat. Arena first if possible since even if a threat makes it to the board then they might have StP or PtE waiting.

I run arena because everyone knows -8 from bob revealing tombstalker sucks, but mostly its because I never get more than 1 card out of bob since he is killed in short order. Where as if I resolve arena, its there for pretty much the whole game, and when arena is out I usually win.

i see. Why not use bitterblossom.

[lyracian]

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
1 Forest
8 Swamp

19 Lands seems a little low? I know you have Rituals but do you not have some games where you struggled to get to 3 lands for Gatekeeper?

[KobeBryan]

19 Lands seems a little low? I know you have Rituals but do you not have some games where you struggled to get to 3 lands for Gatekeeper?

I asked him this question too.

There are games i struggle to get the BB for a geth's verdict.

[Tsnowflake]

19 Lands seems a little low? I know you have Rituals but do you not have some games where you struggled to get to 3 lands for Gatekeeper?

Rarely, but yes I am aware that its a little on the low side. You should never struggle to get BB, its a rule of thumb to mull any hand that has less than 2 BB in it to start with, I find myself with 2-4 lands in my opening hand rather often.

As for bitterblossom, 1/1 flyers for jitte are nice. I think if I were to include bitterblossom in my list I would probably just replace the hypnotics with it OR go down to 3 ofs on Tomb/VNH/Gatekeeper, I'll have to test.

[KobeBryan]

Rarely, but yes I am aware that its a little on the low side. You should never struggle to get BB, its a rule of thumb to mull any hand that has less than 2 BB in it to start with, I find myself with 2-4 lands in my opening hand rather often.

As for bitterblossom, 1/1 flyers for jitte are nice. I think if I were to include bitterblossom in my list I would probably just replace the hypnotics with it OR go down to 3 ofs on Tomb/VNH/Gatekeeper, I'll have to test.

so you never had a hand of 6 cards where it was 2 wastelands 1 swamp, 1 thoughtseize, 1 hymn, and a nighthawk?

How can you mull to five in that situation?

[Tsnowflake]

so you never had a hand of 6 cards where it was 2 wastelands 1 swamp, 1 thoughtseize, 1 hymn, and a nighthawk?

How can you mull to five in that situation?

i don't run wasteland, so that hand would actually look like 1 swamp and some combination of swamp fetch bayou.

[KobeBryan]

i don't run wasteland, so that hand would actually look like 1 swamp and some combination of swamp fetch bayou.

wow no wastelands. That's risky

[KobeBryan]

Anyone have an update on the primer for the current metas?

[-BB-]

Won a nine man tournament last weekend. Played against White Warship (2:0), Dredge (2:1), UW Landstil (2:0) and Stax (Draw) with this list:

4x Wasteland
3x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacomb
1x Bloodstained Mire
7x Swamp
1x Forest

4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Bitterblossom
4x Sinkhole
4x Dark Ritual
2x Smother
2x Dismember
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Dark Confident
3x Vampire Nighthawk

SB:

2x Duress
3x Engineered Plague
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Pernicious Deed
3x Choke

=====

I decided to exchange Tombstalker to Bitterblossom. I died to much on the TombConfident Combo ;)


So long...
-BB-

[NyxathidHorror]

After realizing MBC needed something extra, I started testing Eva Green; I have to say that this deck is a MONSTER! All MBC needed was a way to deal with artifacts and enchantments; Deed and Seal are absolute godsends in this deck.

Quite possibly my second favorite deck. Nothing compares to combo for me... XD

[KobeBryan]

yea...welcome back Eva Green. Lets go beat up some combo decks.

[Greenpoe]

Ritual is good again.

[KobeBryan]

Ritual is good again.

Thats what i'm saying. No more grind out games with bitterblossoms.

Back to the old list.

Creatures (17)
4 dark confidants
4 vampire nighthawk
2 tombstalker
4 tarmogoyf
3 gatekeeper of malikar

instants (8)
4 dark ritual
2 smother
2 dismember

Sorcery (15)
4 hymn to tourach
4 thoughtseize
2 inquisition of kolizek
3 maelstrom pulse
2 noxious revival

Lands (20)
4 bayou
4 verdent catacombs
1 forest
4 wasteland
2 marsh flat
1 misty rainforest
4 swamp

sideboard
3x phyrexian revoker
3x krosan grip
1x go for the throat
2x surgical extraction
2x Pernicious Deed
2x tomrod's crypt
2x null rod

[fallenphoenix]

Back to the old list.

[...]
2 noxious revival
[..]


Shirley, you can't be serious.

[KobeBryan]

Shirley, you can't be serious.

So you never tried it. This card has won me games looking for answers that were used.

[Qweerios]

Holy mother of... Noxious Revival is so good i'm at a loss for words. At first I thought NR would only bring me card disadvantage and situational worthlessness but I still gave it a try. I don't have any arguments to support this claim but you have to trust me, it's good!

On a more serious note, why is VNH being played over Hyppie again? I really don't get the appeal of VNH as a beater in Eva Green. He doesn't put your opponent on a significant clock and doesn't disrupt in any way, he can safely be ignored.

[KobeBryan]

Holy mother of... Noxious Revival is so good i'm at a loss for words. At first I thought NR would only bring me card disadvantage and situational worthlessness but I still gave it a try. I don't have any arguments to support this claim but you have to trust me, it's good!

On a more serious note, why is VNH being played over Hyppie again? I really don't get the appeal of VNH as a beater in Eva Green. He doesn't put your opponent on a significant clock and doesn't disrupt in any way, he can safely be ignored.

problem with hippie is because he is too weak to fight against aggro decks. VNH also helps with the combo matchup in a different way, ie. you gain life he loses life, therefore he has to count his storms differently.

Hippie i love, but he's not good in this meta with zoo.

[Esper3k]

That's only against Tendrils based combo though and even then, some life isn't as good as making them discard.

Hyppie is also much better against control. Nighthawk is pretty much worthless in that matchup (and he's not that amazing against Aggro - something like Crusader or Obliterator is better against Zoo)

[Greenpoe]

On a more serious note, why is VNH being played over Hyppie again? I really don't get the appeal of VNH as a beater in Eva Green. He doesn't put your opponent on a significant clock and doesn't disrupt in any way, he can safely be ignored.

Play both. I like 3 Hyppie and 4 Nighthawk. In many matchups, one of those cards are the first to get sided out though. Hyppie is good against combo, blue, and can force them to StP him or lose their StP altogether. Nighthawk helps vs. aggro and is removal+evasion+stalls.

[fallenphoenix]

So you never tried it. This card has won me games looking for answers that were used.

This is Legacy. Things like Regrowth and Witness are legal and perfectly fine cards, if you're looking for that kind of effect. Or Sylvan library. Or Maelstrom Pulse as a catch-all answer. Playing stuff like Obnoxious Revival just means cheating yourself.

[KobeBryan]

This is Legacy. Things like Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor Demonic Consultation are illegal and banned. For a deck that fills the graveyard extremely fast, you are just cheating yourself out of the 5 of and 6 of the spell.

Anyways, I suggest you try the card first, then make an assessment. Try it with regrowh (a two mana cost sorcery), try it with witness (a three mana creature), before you dismiss a free instant that gets any card you used before.

[KobeBryan]

This is Legacy. Things like Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor Demonic Consultation are illegal and banned. For a deck that fills the graveyard extremely fast, you are just cheating yourself out of the 5 of and 6 of the spell.

Anyways, I suggest you try the card first, then make an assessment. Try it with regrowh (a two mana cost sorcery), try it with witness (a three mana creature), before you dismiss a free instant that gets any card you used before.

[fallenphoenix]

This is Legacy. Things like Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor Demonic Consultation are illegal and banned. For a deck that fills the graveyard extremely fast, you are just cheating yourself out of the 5 of and 6 of the spell.

If you're going to take my sentence and twist it around the outcome should at least make some sense.

With revival you're going to skip a drawstep to get a spell already cast - with any other spell you're getting that one PLUS the draw you were going to skip for your revival. So as long as you're not playing Chimney Imp (which I wouldn't be too surprised to see in your deck if you play Revival) that extra spell should be pretty decent and you should be fine.

Oh well, if this isn't the most obvious thing in the world for, then I'm probably wasting my time explaning it anyway.

[KobeBryan]

If you're going to take my sentence and twist it around the outcome should at least make some sense.

With revival you're going to skip a drawstep to get a spell already cast - with any other spell you're getting that one PLUS the draw you were going to skip for your revival. So as long as you're not playing Chimney Imp (which I wouldn't be too surprised to see in your deck if you play Revival) that extra spell should be pretty decent and you should be fine.

Oh well, if this isn't the most obvious thing in the world for, then I'm probably wasting my time explaning it anyway.

so you prefer a random draw for an answer to a threat over knowing what you can get to answer the threat. By your logic, mystical tutor, enlightened tutor, and even vampiric tutor are bad cards then.

OK. Card advantage is extremely overrated in this forum. Sure card advantage wins games, but so does card quality and knowing what you get.

[fallenphoenix]

By your logic, mystical tutor, enlightened tutor, and even vampiric tutor are bad cards then.


Now you're just trolling. Obnoxious Revival is so fundamentally different in term of powerlevel and functionality that even you should recognize it.
Which leads me to the conclusion that you just posted this argument for the sake of winning a discussion that you have already lost.

If you need something to improve your card quality try to run any of the stuff I named above, or even SDT.

[KobeBryan]

Now you're just trolling. Obnoxious Revival is so fundamentally different in term of powerlevel and functionality that even you should recognize it.
Which leads me to the conclusion that you just posted this argument for the sake of winning a discussion that you have already lost.

If you need something to improve your card quality try to run any of the stuff I named above, or even SDT.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=235915&page=58

read from post 856. So far, there are 3 people who actually playtested this card and liked it. Your argument relies solely on the logic that its simple "card disadvantage" without ever touching the card in the deck. So who are we to believe? Actual playtesters or a person who relies on a theory without any testing.

It is pretty obvious who the actual troll is. A non-tester discarding a usefulness of a card. You even go so far as to calling it "obnoxious". GG. /end

[egosum]

This list I give is nothing new, but a tunning of the very first Eva green list. But I wanted to share my thoughts and see what do you think.

Main deck 60

4x Tarmogoyf
4x Tombstalker
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Nantuko Shade

4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Toruach
4x Dark Ritual
4x Snuff Out

3x Liliana of the veil

2x Sylvan Library
2x Umezawa's Jitte

8x Black Fetch
4x Bayou
4x Wasteland
5x Swamp

Things that I like about main deck:

-Liliana, she is so sweet and helps in so many matchups. Eva green has now something to get through the mid game agaisnt other aggro decks.

-Nighthawk/Jitte/Sylvan: nice sinergy. Sylvan works, more or less, like a confidant (the reason of playing the enchantmnet over Bob is, obv, the 4 tombstalkers, but I like this redundacy in the deck).

Things I dislike:

-Very few disruption.

-No Bob, I had to choose between Bob and Tombstalker, and the latter seems like more needed, just for its body.

-Nantuko Shade: she seems like from another era, but I don't know which creature can fill his place (I thought of Malakir or Mesmeric Fiend, none of them convinced me neither)

The sideboard also needs like a lot of work, but this is a place to start:

3x Duress
3x Extirpate
3x Perish
3x Phyrexian Revoker (Deed, Jace, SDT, ...)
3x Krosan Grip (only if CB comes back, but I think it will, at least in the very next months)

So, what do you think?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[KobeBryan]

This list I give is nothing new, but a tunning of the very first Eva green list. But I wanted to share my thoughts and see what do you think.

Main deck 60

4x Tarmogoyf
4x Tombstalker
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Nantuko Shade

4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Toruach
4x Dark Ritual
4x Snuff Out

3x Liliana of the veil

2x Sylvan Library
2x Umezawa's Jitte

8x Black Fetch
4x Bayou
4x Wasteland
5x Swamp

Things that I like about main deck:

-Liliana, she is so sweet and helps in so many matchups. Eva green has now something to get through the mid game agaisnt other aggro decks.

-Nighthawk/Jitte/Sylvan: nice sinergy. Sylvan works, more or less, like a confidant (the reason of playing the enchantmnet over Bob is, obv, the 4 tombstalkers, but I like this redundacy in the deck).

Things I dislike:

-Very few disruption.

-No Bob, I had to choose between Bob and Tombstalker, and the latter seems like more needed, just for its body.

-Nantuko Shade: she seems like from another era, but I don't know which creature can fill his place (I thought of Malakir or Mesmeric Fiend, none of them convinced me neither)

The sideboard also needs like a lot of work, but this is a place to start:

3x Duress
3x Extirpate
3x Perish
3x Phyrexian Revoker (Deed, Jace, SDT, ...)
3x Krosan Grip (only if CB comes back, but I think it will, at least in the very next months)

So, what do you think?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

4 tombstalkers are too much. 4 nantuko shades are too much. You can't just use any black fetch, you need verdent catacombs.

I found library didnt add to the board presence, but thats just me. Jitte has won me games, but he is a mana sink when I need to drop critters the most.

[Esper3k]

I'm a pretty big fan of Sylvan Library, myself. Mid-Late game when you've stalled out, you get to do the thing black suicide loves to do (pay life!) to push through.

I'd also suggest trying out Maelstrom Pulse - it's a pretty good catchall answer. I'd play it as a 2 or 3-of.

Try giving Dismember a spin over Snuff Out as well? It hits Bob and opposing Tombstalkers yet still is fast enough to catch those T1 Lackeys.

[Annatar]

Here is a question: has anyone considered Phyrexian Negator as a sideboard card against combo (for what it's worth it's probably not a bad maindeck card either)? It's way better against them in the sense that since hippie's disrupting capability has become less relevant over time it at least puts them on a way shorter clock.

Also, last time i played with Negator he did quite a number on merfolk. It might not be so obvious at first, but those guys really don't have many good ways to get rid of a 5/5 creature once it sticks. If you keep their lord count low you can pretty much ride a single negator to victory at the cost of a land here and there.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Here is a question: has anyone considered Phyrexian Negator as a sideboard card against combo (for what it's worth it's probably not a bad maindeck card either)?

Disruption + Beatz is what beats combo, not bigger beaters. Modern fast combo decks outrace T1 Negator easily anyways.

[KobeBryan]

Here is a question: has anyone considered Phyrexian Negator as a sideboard card against combo (for what it's worth it's probably not a bad maindeck card either)?

Turn 1 dark ritual --> negator

or

Turn 1 dark ritual --> inquisition, hymn to tourach.

Sign me up for the latter.


On another note, some lists run gatekeeper. Do you guys feel this can be replaced with liliana? Its even friendlier with the casting cost. But you do lose that 2/2 body that once in a while does come in handy.

[Esper3k]

@Annatar: Honestly, Hypnotic Specter is much better than Negator against combo. You consistently randomly wreck their hand and even Leyline of Sanctity can't protect them from it. Post board options usually mean that discard effects are your best bet against combo.

@Avatar of Shadow: I've been very happy with Gatekeepers but I'm wanting to give Liliana a spin. I think a 3 mana planewalker whose plus ability doesn't always hurt you (unlike little Jace) seems really awesome.

[egosum]

4 tombstalkers are too much. 4 nantuko shades are too much. You can't just use any black fetch, you need verdent catacombs.

I found library didnt add to the board presence, but thats just me. Jitte has won me games, but he is a mana sink when I need to drop critters the most.

If I m not playing 4x Tombstalkers. Then I 'll play 2x Tombstalkers +4x Dark Confidant, but then I'll lose a lot of body (if I do this I'll not play sylvan either). This is an alternate maindeck.

4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tombstalker
2x Gatekeeper Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Dark Confidant

2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Toruach
4x Dark Ritual
2x Go for the Throat
2x Ghastly Demise

3x Liliana of the veil

2x Umezawa's Jitte

8x Black Fetch
4x Bayou
4x Wasteland
5x Swamp

Is itany better?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[Esper3k]

I've never been a huge fan of Bob in Eva Green since we're generally trying to beat face and win the game before they can recover from our disruption. If things go long, we're in trouble anyways.

I tend to like the "free" black removal spells like Snuff Out / Dismember more than Ghastly Demise / GFTT.

[egosum]

I think this is the way to go too but since it s been long time since I last played eva, I wanted to contrast.

Which list would you play? With Liliana? I think she is so sweet.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[KobeBryan]

I think this is the way to go too but since it s been long time since I last played eva, I wanted to contrast.

Which list would you play? With Liliana? I think she is so sweet.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

There's really two ways to think of bob...either you have him in and not be afraid of stalker or you add more threats.

I personally cannot live without the best 2 drop in the game.

As for liliana, I don't know man. No one's been testing this deck out since MM came out. Lets find out how she is in the coming months.

With that new deck list that you have, liliana and gatekeepers are overlapping. You should really choose one or the other, possibly using 2 lilianas (you don't really wanna see that many planeswalkers), and 2 gatekeepers (or 1 gatekeeper depending how you like it).

Add that ONE single forest in. you will need it. and dont' forget about maelstrom pulse

[Annatar]

Personally, i don't think that Hypnotic Specter is good as advertised against the faster combo decks, even on turn one. If they feel they have to they will just hide their important cards with Brainstorm even though they are just that redundant. They have a lot of spells that can help them dig deep enough into the deck to recover the cards they've lost to the specter that's hitting them for 2 a turn.

The only reason Hypnotic Specter maintained it's place in Red Death and Eva Green at the time is that his disruption effect was relevant. With those days long gone (even Sinkhole isn't what it used to be), it's only reasonable to try and find something reasonable to replace him.

Phyrexian Negator can at least force an Ad Nauseam player to start the combo earlier then it might be convenient for them. Same thing goes for High Tide. If he is followed with even minimal creature/disruption support he can finish a game in short order. With Tarmogoyf he makes the fastest and the deadliest tag-team this deck can muster at this point.

[KobeBryan]

Personally, i don't think that Hypnotic Specter is good as advertised against the faster combo decks, even on turn one. If they feel they have to they will just hide their important cards with Brainstorm even though they are just that redundant. They have a lot of spells that can help them dig deep enough into the deck to recover the cards they've lost to the specter that's hitting them for 2 a turn.

The only reason Hypnotic Specter maintained it's place in Red Death and Eva Green at the time is that his disruption effect was relevant. With those days long gone (even Sinkhole isn't what it used to be), it's only reasonable to try and find something reasonable to replace him.

Phyrexian Negator can at least force an Ad Nauseam player to start the combo earlier then it might be convenient for them. Same thing goes for High Tide. If he is followed with even minimal creature/disruption support he can finish a game in short order. With Tarmogoyf he makes the fastest and the deadliest tag-team this deck can muster at this point.

Between Both negator and spector, I would choose spector, just because I can almost guarantee he will eat a removal if he was dropped on the first three turns.

This clears the way for bob and my real threats.

to be honest, I rather play sinkhole over negator. Thats how much i don't like that guy.

[Greenpoe]

Hypnotic Specter is to combo and control what Vampire Nighthawk is to aggro. Will Nighthawk win the aggro MU alone? Nope. Evasion+clock+relevant abilities=good card. Same with Specter vs. combo/control. I'd rather go turn 1 Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize+Bob/Hymn/Jitte/etc. rather than just Hypnotic swinging on turn 2.

[Esper3k]

Really? For me against control, if I get a t1 hypnotic and i actually get to hit them with it on t2, I feel like I can't lose the game.

[KobeBryan]

Really? For me against control, if I get a t1 hypnotic and i actually get to hit them with it on t2, I feel like I can't lose the game.

It really depends on your hand.

If my hand was 1 hyppie, 1 dark ritual, hymn, toughtseize, land, land, and a two drop

i would just thoughtseize turn 1

turn 2, go dark ritual, hymn, and two drop.

so my hyppie comes out turn 3. Thats why i don't really use hyppie.

[GradStudentGuy]

For those not playing noxious revival in this deck you should. Eva Green Is notorious for having bad top decks. Most of the time your opening seven decide the game with this deck so your going to aggressively mulligan for the right mix of beats and disruption. Because of that Noxious revival is good. It give you a second chance of playing a disruption card or creature when you need it. I see it as 0 Mana vampiric tutor in this deck. Basically It adds the consistency this deck craves without costing mana only card slots. I have been running it between a 2-3x ever since it came out and have not looked back. Nothings feels better then playing a second hymn or bringing back a Goyf that was countered.

[Greenpoe]

Really? For me against control, if I get a t1 hypnotic and i actually get to hit them with it on t2, I feel like I can't lose the game.

If they're running white, black or red, it's not worth the risk IMO. But really, if Hyppie even knocks one card out of their hand, that's CA.

[KobeBryan]

If they're running white, black or red, it's not worth the risk IMO. But really, if Hyppie even knocks one card out of their hand, that's CA.

Man i'm really debating whether to run sinkholes. I know the reasons not to, but there are so many team america decks coming back with lots of decks with greedy mana base.

granted there is that dreaded aether vial that makes the card completely useless.

[Esper3k]

If they're running white, black or red, it's not worth the risk IMO. But really, if Hyppie even knocks one card out of their hand, that's CA.

Yes, if they kill it with a removal spell, they've just CA'd you. If they Force it, you've broken even. If you get to attack with it and hit them, you've probably won the game against control.

[Esper3k]

Personally, i don't think that Hypnotic Specter is good as advertised against the faster combo decks, even on turn one. If they feel they have to they will just hide their important cards with Brainstorm even though they are just that redundant. They have a lot of spells that can help them dig deep enough into the deck to recover the cards they've lost to the specter that's hitting them for 2 a turn.

The only reason Hypnotic Specter maintained it's place in Red Death and Eva Green at the time is that his disruption effect was relevant. With those days long gone (even Sinkhole isn't what it used to be), it's only reasonable to try and find something reasonable to replace him.

Phyrexian Negator can at least force an Ad Nauseam player to start the combo earlier then it might be convenient for them. Same thing goes for High Tide. If he is followed with even minimal creature/disruption support he can finish a game in short order. With Tarmogoyf he makes the fastest and the deadliest tag-team this deck can muster at this point.

Thing is, against us - an Ad Nauseam player doesn't have to go off with Ad Nauseam. Just doing an Iggy loop is much safer and guaranteed against us since they don't have to care about their life total or worry about the slight randomness of Ad Nauseam.

The argument with Brainstorm is something they can use against all hand disruption, not just Hypnotic Specter.

[KobeBryan]

Noxious revival did something very fun yesterday against team america.

There was a dead tombstalker in the GY. He has a bob out in play. At his draw phase, I noxious revival the tombstalker to the top of his library and he had to eat 8. He was already down to 7.

Great surprising way to play noxious.

[Qweerios]

Doesn't Unearth have more value than Noxious Revival? At least it can be cycled away when theres nothing relevant to return or when a Tombstalker ate your GY.

As for Hippie vs VNH, why is VNH even considered!? A 2/2 for 3 that won't even disrupt is beyond the realm of garbage. If his purpose is to help against Aggro, then just play more removal instead. I think VNH is justified by hardcore Eva Green players that want their deck to succeed against all odds. If your deck is built around losing life in exchange for tempo and disruption, why try to alter the core of your deck strategy with a slow, innofensive, and non-disruptive creature that gains you life over a long period of time? I say, just accept your fundamentally bad matchups and move on.

[Esper3k]

Noxious revival did something very fun yesterday against team america.

There was a dead tombstalker in the GY. He has a bob out in play. At his draw phase, I noxious revival the tombstalker to the top of his library and he had to eat 8. He was already down to 7.

Great surprising way to play noxious.

Just a nitpick, but you'll want to do that on his upkeep in response to the Bob trigger since if you've moved onto his draw step, it's already too late :)

I don't really like Noxious Revival on one's own things - I think the strongest use of it is on other people's useless stuff (like giving them back a land when they already have plenty)

[KobeBryan]

Just a nitpick, but you'll want to do that on his upkeep in response to the Bob trigger since if you've moved onto his draw step, it's already too late :)

I don't really like Noxious Revival on one's own things - I think the strongest use of it is on other people's useless stuff (like giving them back a land when they already have plenty)

Thanks for the heads up.

Anyways, back to the age old hypnotic or vampire nighthawk debate.

Using VNH
1. its almost like a removal
2. 4 point swings
3. better matchup against aggro decks, i.e. the merfolk, the zoo, the affinity matchups
4. Has a strong board presence.
5. out of grim range
6. can go head to head with emmy.

Cons.
1. useless early game
2. no disruption
3. bad versus combo

Pros of using hyppie
1. great disruption
2. eats a removal for you for bob to stay on board.
3. card advantage
4. great vs. combo/control

cons
1. useless in topdeck
2. sucks late game
3. can't block for squat when it matters
4. will need to run a bit more removal (.ie. gatekeepers and other targeted removals)
5. no life gain
6. useless versus dredge combo.

So what do we use?

I've actually been testing 2 nantuko shades in the MD just so I can have another beater. Its great when I see a late game ritual and being flooded with mana.

[Esper3k]

Nighthawk is also terrible vs control and does pretty much nothing against Dredge as well (when they're overrunning you with Zombies, the life gain you got off of it is terrible).

In the last version I played, I actually also played 2-3 Shade. We know it's great late game as a mana sink and to use Dark Rituals, but I actually played it because I wanted to have more 2 drops I could play off of a T1, Ritual, Thougtseize/Inquisition opener. I also ran a 3/3 split maindeck of Thoughtseize and Inquisition to make your T1 Rituals more explosive.

For me, I liked Hyppie in the main because of a lot of combo and control in my meta. Phyrexian Crusader tested from the board amazingly against Zoo, btw. If you think about it, when on defense, the only things that can do anything to him are 4/5+ Goyfs and Exalted Nacatls.

I would also love to try and develop an Eva list that could run Obliterators, but I think it's too hard to make it work and it wouldn't be good unless aggro decks really take over.

[KobeBryan]

Nighthawk is also terrible vs control and does pretty much nothing against Dredge as well (when they're overrunning you with Zombies, the life gain you got off of it is terrible).

In the last version I played, I actually also played 2-3 Shade. We know it's great late game as a mana sink and to use Dark Rituals, but I actually played it because I wanted to have more 2 drops I could play off of a T1, Ritual, Thougtseize/Inquisition opener. I also ran a 3/3 split maindeck of Thoughtseize and Inquisition to make your T1 Rituals more explosive.

For me, I liked Hyppie in the main because of a lot of combo and control in my meta. Phyrexian Crusader tested from the board amazingly against Zoo, btw. If you think about it, when on defense, the only things that can do anything to him are 4/5+ Goyfs and Exalted Nacatls.

I would also love to try and develop an Eva list that could run Obliterators, but I think it's too hard to make it work and it wouldn't be good unless aggro decks really take over.

I actually tried what you suggested, I put two crusaders in the board and changed the nighthawks to hyppies.

So far, the hyppies have not discarded anyone.

anyways, since I have hyppies in the MD, I -1 null, - 2 revokers and added 1 smother 2 phyrexian crusader.

[Greenpoe]

I would also love to try and develop an Eva list that could run Obliterators, but I think it's too hard to make it work and it wouldn't be good unless aggro decks really take over.

4 mana for Eva Green is ridiculously slow. Wastes are too vital to cut. If you try running the Urborg+Waste combo, well Urborg makes your manabase crappier and only matter if you have a Waste & Obliterator & the Ubrorg & the Waste/Urborg needs to not be Wasted, plus you need to reach 4 mana, plus there's tons of situations where you have one but not the other. Obliterator just doesn't work in Eva Green, since this deck tends to trim a few lands for Rituals anyway. If you want a better late game, run Jitte & Bitterblossom.

[KobeBryan]

4 mana for Eva Green is ridiculously slow. Wastes are too vital to cut. If you try running the Urborg+Waste combo, well Urborg makes your manabase crappier and only matter if you have a Waste & Obliterator & the Ubrorg & the Waste/Urborg needs to not be Wasted, plus you need to reach 4 mana, plus there's tons of situations where you have one but not the other. Obliterator just doesn't work in Eva Green, since this deck tends to trim a few lands for Rituals anyway. If you want a better late game, run Jitte & Bitterblossom.

Yea, I even have trouble getting to 3 blacks, much less 4 blacks.

I might actually use liliana over the gatekeepers simply because it can come out easier.

[Esper3k]

4 mana for Eva Green is ridiculously slow. Wastes are too vital to cut. If you try running the Urborg+Waste combo, well Urborg makes your manabase crappier and only matter if you have a Waste & Obliterator & the Ubrorg & the Waste/Urborg needs to not be Wasted, plus you need to reach 4 mana, plus there's tons of situations where you have one but not the other. Obliterator just doesn't work in Eva Green, since this deck tends to trim a few lands for Rituals anyway. If you want a better late game, run Jitte & Bitterblossom.

4 mana itself isn't ridiculously slower than 3 mana, especially since we run Dark Ritual. The main problem is the BBBB.

You're also missing the point of the card. You don't play it to beat control or combo. You play it to beat Aggro. Against Zoo, if they don't immediately Path it, they probably can't win the game.

[Esper3k]

4 mana for Eva Green is ridiculously slow. Wastes are too vital to cut. If you try running the Urborg+Waste combo, well Urborg makes your manabase crappier and only matter if you have a Waste & Obliterator & the Ubrorg & the Waste/Urborg needs to not be Wasted, plus you need to reach 4 mana, plus there's tons of situations where you have one but not the other. Obliterator just doesn't work in Eva Green, since this deck tends to trim a few lands for Rituals anyway. If you want a better late game, run Jitte & Bitterblossom.

4 mana itself isn't ridiculously slower than 3 mana, especially since we run Dark Ritual. The main problem is the BBBB.

You're also missing the point of the card. You don't play it to beat control or combo. You play it to beat Aggro. Against Zoo, if they don't immediately Path it, they probably can't win the game.

[Greenpoe]

Most lists trim a few lands to suit Dark Ritual. Adding more lands back in for consistency would make the deck slower, and at that point, a green-splashed version of The Gate would probably be better, going more for consistency than power.

[Greenpoe]

Most lists trim a few lands to suit Dark Ritual. Adding more lands back in for consistency would make the deck slower, and at that point, a green-splashed version of The Gate would probably be better, going more for consistency than power.

[KobeBryan]

I run a 3 gatekeeper build in my MD. i took 2 gatekepers out and ran 2 lilianas. She is legit.

Against Sneak show, I kept discarding with liliana. I had no more cards in my hands. The other player was top decking. As you know eva green's topdeck is not nearly as bad as inconsistent combo decks. She basically won me the game alone. Eventually, the guy topdecked a sneak attack. I then used liliana's combo...Liliana was already at 8 counters. I separated all his lands and sneak attack into two separate piles. He gg'ed right after.

Against Fish, the edict effect every other turn helps immensely against their lords and cheapy fishes. The discard didnt' affect anyone really since both decks top really fast.

Against Storm Combo. This guy just kept discarding each time I had. I have other cards to speed up the process, i.e. hymns and thoughtseizes, so this wasn't really a game after dropping 1 goyf on the table.

Against zoo. Its difficult to keep her alive with so many bolts flying in her face. However, if you run a hyppie/dark confidant build, those will tend to eat the bolt before it hits her face. Once that happens, the edicts help out. But she wasn't the deciding factor, phyrexian crusader was.

In conclusion, she helps out a lot with the mana curve. When we get swamp swamp wasteland out on the field with no other land coming, its much easier dropping her down than having a stupid gatekeeper in hand that requires 3 mana.

I have not decided whether I want to run a 3 liliana MD build yet. It seems too much. One time I had to discard my own liliana since one was already in play.

In any event, I'm still keeping noxious revival. That card has ensured me to get a second deed, a second pulse, or a second removal too many times. One time, I dark ritualed hymn turn 1, EOT noxious revival the hymn and did a second hymn to his face. This won the game. This throws unearth of out the question since I don't always go after my creatures. There were a couple of times I did go after my goyf though. Lets not rule that one out.

I will continue to test liliana. I will post additional comments when completing my testing. However, I did this with proxies against my friends' competitive decks. I just cant justify paying 40 dollars on a pre-release price at this point. This is a 10 dollar mythic, to be honest after rotation.

[KobeBryan]

I run a 3 gatekeeper build in my MD. i took 2 gatekepers out and ran 2 lilianas. She is legit.

Against Sneak show, I kept discarding with liliana. I had no more cards in my hands. The other player was top decking. As you know eva green's topdeck is not nearly as bad as inconsistent combo decks. She basically won me the game alone. Eventually, the guy topdecked a sneak attack. I then used liliana's combo...Liliana was already at 8 counters. I separated all his lands and sneak attack into two separate piles. He gg'ed right after.

Against Fish, the edict effect every other turn helps immensely against their lords and cheapy fishes. The discard didnt' affect anyone really since both decks top really fast.

Against Storm Combo. This guy just kept discarding each time I had. I have other cards to speed up the process, i.e. hymns and thoughtseizes, so this wasn't really a game after dropping 1 goyf on the table.

Against zoo. Its difficult to keep her alive with so many bolts flying in her face. However, if you run a hyppie/dark confidant build, those will tend to eat the bolt before it hits her face. Once that happens, the edicts help out. But she wasn't the deciding factor, phyrexian crusader was.

In conclusion, she helps out a lot with the mana curve. When we get swamp swamp wasteland out on the field with no other land coming, its much easier dropping her down than having a stupid gatekeeper in hand that requires 3 mana.

I have not decided whether I want to run a 3 liliana MD build yet. It seems too much. One time I had to discard my own liliana since one was already in play.

In any event, I'm still keeping noxious revival. That card has ensured me to get a second deed, a second pulse, or a second removal too many times. One time, I dark ritualed hymn turn 1, EOT noxious revival the hymn and did a second hymn to his face. This won the game. This throws unearth of out the question since I don't always go after my creatures. There were a couple of times I did go after my goyf though. Lets not rule that one out.

I will continue to test liliana. I will post additional comments when completing my testing. However, I did this with proxies against my friends' competitive decks. I just cant justify paying 40 dollars on a pre-release price at this point. This is a 10 dollar mythic, to be honest after rotation.

[lyracian]

In any event, I'm still keeping noxious revival. That card has ensured me to get a second deed, a second pulse, or a second removal too many times. One time, I dark ritualed hymn turn 1, EOT noxious revival the hymn and did a second hymn to his face. This won the game. This throws unearth of out the question since I don't always go after my creatures. There were a couple of times I did go after my goyf though. Lets not rule that one out.

I will continue to test liliana. I will post additional comments when completing my testing. However, I did this with proxies against my friends' competitive decks. I just cant justify paying 40 dollars on a pre-release price at this point. This is a 10 dollar mythic, to be honest after rotation.
I hope she does drop down to that; then I will add her to the deck. noxious revival looks like a fun idea so I will try it out and see how it plays myself, especially since I can not find my reanimates at the moment...

[lyracian]

...............

[Esper3k]

I really want to give Liliana a try, but I think she'll actually probably be fairly high for awhile. Hopefully she drops down to like 20-25 and that's probably about when I'll bite.

[Qweerios]

When you want to discuss speed in Eva Green, you should probably specify what "type" of Eva Green you play. The good old classic list is basically suicide black aggro with a green splash for Goyf. Playing this version means that you play Tombstalkers and Snuff Out/Dismember. Versions of Eva Green playing cards like Maelstrom Pulse, Dark Confidant, and even Pernicious Deed are more along the lines of a BG Aggro/Control strategy and playing Phyrexian Obliterator is perfectly acceptable.

[KobeBryan]

I did more playtesting with Liliana. This time against reanimator and additional testing against Zoo.

I actually found that gatekeeper is actually lackluster compared to Liliana. When Liliana dropped, it controlled the board enough to beat Reanimator. Kept discarding their cards and even removing Jin after being reanimated.

This card is useful when on the board.

Again, against zoo, it just eats bolt after bolt. I think the first thing you do with Liliana with zoo is to use the +1 ability. Do not use edict ability AT ALL.

[Schembo]

With misstep gone its time to take this pile back in action. I played about 20 games yesterday against maverick and lilly did very well there. It's nice to have more sac effects on board with moms and mirran crusaders coming right to your face. Scavenging Ooze was hardest thing to fight against and really missed snuff outs when that thing got in play.

My list

4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
1 Forest

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian crusader

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Dismember
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Against zoo she is 3cc cruel edict but thats enough to buy time to get crusader in play. And if you get creaturea and they bolt lilly its just came 2 for 1 trade.

Going to test tomorrow more against maverick (Sry about that but friends are testing same time for amsterdam) and maybe i get play againstsome stoneblade too.

[Greenpoe]

Running 3 Liliana can justify running some late game dead cards, like 5-6 1cc discard and Rituals for sure. You can just pitch them to Liliana.

[Esper3k]

Yeah I think it should be fine to use the Edict ability with Lilli against Zoo as long as they can't just attack her back and kill her. If they bolt, fine you still got a 2 for 1 out of it.

[Esper3k]

Yeah I think it should be fine to use the Edict ability with Lilli against Zoo as long as they can't just attack her back and kill her. If they bolt, fine you still got a 2 for 1 out of it.

[KobeBryan]

How are you guys doing against NO Rug, No Bant/Bant, and Team America. These decks still give me problems. Especially now they have spell snare back in the deck instead of missteps. I actually preferred dealing with missteps over spell snares.

Same with Rock based decks with Refiq.

[Schembo]

How are you guys doing against NO Rug, No Bant/Bant, and Team America. These decks still give me problems. Especially now they have spell snare back in the deck instead of missteps. I actually preferred dealing with missteps over spell snares.

Same with Rock based decks with Refiq.

I think we discussed this same subject couple page ago.


Phyrexian Crusader. Crusader got protections for stop, lavamancer, Rhox War Monk, Qasali Pridemage, Knight etc.. and tarmo needs to be at least 4/5 to take crusader out. Fast progenitus is problematic but you have gatekeepers and from sideboard perishs/edicts in 2dn and 3th game.

I myself play 3 crusader in md and got first and second place on last tournaments i played. And havent lost single game against bant and rug (2 games against bant and 1 against rug in last tournaments). Plus crusader handles zoo almost alone.

And liliana inqluded we got more sac effects for proge. Perish helps a lot against bant and rock so newer go for tourney without em. Playing against TA i dont have any experience.

[Esper3k]

Liliana seems pretty amazing against TA. If she gets down, they have very few answers to her and her edict effect is great against their few # of creatures.

[KobeBryan]

Team America decks have 12 counters, FOW, Daze, and spell snare

then they have 6 removal in dismembers and submerges. This is one hell of a matchup.

If you are unlucky and do not get any of your 1 drop removal, you are dead against them. Thats my experience with them.

They also play cheapy creatures in goyf and that new delver of secrets card.

[Esper3k]

My experience against TA is different.

Eva tends to be more aggressive and faster than TA, which is a problem traditional TA tends to have (they usually have issues with faster aggro decks like Zoo or Merfolk).

Spell Snare isn't something that's commonly played in Team America.

I wouldn't be that afraid of Delver. It's smaller than pretty much everything we play and it means they probably cut Tombstalkers to play it.

[KobeBryan]

After extensive testing, I want to take a poll

1. Do you believe eva green is an aggro control deck?

or

2. Do you believe eva green is an all out aggro deck?

[Esper3k]

It's hard to have a pure Aggro deck these days. Even Zoo and Goblins have elements of control. I would say that Eva, especially the Tombstalker builds, is more on the Aggro than control side. Versions running Bob are more controlling but it's still fundamentally an Aggro deck.

[Greenpoe]

A lot of people run both Bob and Stalker. The most controlling cards in the deck are Deed or Jitte (or SB Dystopias, Phyrexian Revoker, etc.).

By the way, for those of you who really like Liliana, she seems to work fine as a 4-of. You can pitch multiples to her +1, or just keep Edicting 'til she dies, then drop another and edict again.

[KobeBryan]

Ok. This is from my testing. The reason I want to ask a poll as to what you believe this deck's fundamental purpose is what cards to use.

If you believe Eva green is an all out aggro deck, you cannot use liliana, maelstrom pulse, dark confidant, or gatekeeper. You need cards that fly in that person's face, ie, stalkers, sinkholes, and other disruption. You even have to take bob out of the equation. at this point, you probably need to up the land count to 21, taking that lone forest out. Each turn you must be doing something, and not wait for the next turn to have an effect, ie. dark confidant. Turn after turn, a threat must be dropped. At this point, you probably need to run 4 vampire nighthawks, 4 hypnotics, 3 tombstalkers, nantuko shades, and 4 goyfs. Even going as far as using sinkholes and up the discard to 10. 4 hymns 4 thoughtseize, 2 duress/IOK


If you want the controlish build, which I believe is slower since this deck seems to run out of gas, you board in the cards as mentioned. You can definitely move the maelstrom pulses in the deck. However, I might suggest running bitterblossom in this build. (i personally run 2 noxious revival, 2 IOK, which i think we can replace it with 3 bitterblossoms). Maybe even run a jitte or two in the deck.

[lyracian]

If you believe Eva green is an all out aggro deck, you cannot use liliana, maelstrom pulse, dark confidant, or gatekeeper.I disagree with your idea that you can not use Bob in an aggro deck however I understand what you are trying to say.

Eva is an aggro-control deck, if for nothing more than just the discard. The aim is to be doing more than just summoning creatures and attacking.

[KobeBryan]

I disagree with your idea that you can not use Bob in an aggro deck however I understand what you are trying to say.

Eva is an aggro-control deck, if for nothing more than just the discard. The aim is to be doing more than just summoning creatures and attacking.

Maybe not entirely true for bob because Card advantage wins games. However the other three cards might need to be replaced in an aggro build.

I have had problems going heads up with Team America and No Rug/No Bant simply because the deck doesn't do enough damage later in the game and when the stalls begin.

I say you gotta race out of the gate with your 7 cards and pound his face in before the delays come. Thats why I am suggesting bitterblossom in the MD in a controlish style build. That way when it gets to the counter counter counter and removal wars, you will win the war of attrition.

[Esper3k]

Like I said, I don't think any deck in Legacy can be called a pure Aggro deck anymore. All decks, even Zoo and Goblins run disruption / removal / utility creatures.

Pre-MM, I really liked Sylvan Library (suggested to me by Metalwalker) as a 2-of in the deck. It smooths out your mid-late game draws and provides extra gas when you need to push through to victory.

I also liked Gatekeeper quite a bit. The tempo he generates can be incredible. Say you're on the play and you drop a Goyf or Shade on T2. Opponent plays a Goyf T2. You Gatekeeper on T3 and attack. Your next removal spell is now absolutely nuts if they drop a big dude t3.

[Esper3k]

Like I said, I don't think any deck in Legacy can be called a pure Aggro deck anymore. All decks, even Zoo and Goblins run disruption / removal / utility creatures.

Pre-MM, I really liked Sylvan Library (suggested to me by Metalwalker) as a 2-of in the deck. It smooths out your mid-late game draws and provides extra gas when you need to push through to victory.

I also liked Gatekeeper quite a bit. The tempo he generates can be incredible. Say you're on the play and you drop a Goyf or Shade on T2. Opponent plays a Goyf T2. You Gatekeeper on T3 and attack. Your next removal spell is now absolutely nuts if they drop a big dude t3.

[KobeBryan]

I agree Gatekeeper is great since he clears the way for swingers. But the new liliana is just too good to pass up. They fight over the same spot to be honest.

Creatures (16)
4 dark confidants
3 hypnotic spector
2 nantuko shade
2 tombstalker
4 tarmogoyf
1 scavenging ooze (5th goyf)

instants (8)
4 dark ritual
2 smother
2 dismember

Sorcery (12)
4 hymn to tourach
4 thoughtseize
1 inquisition of kolizek
3 maelstrom pulse

planeswalker (2)
2 liliana of the veil

Enchantment (3)
3 bitterblossom

Lands (20)
4 bayou
4 verdent catacombs
1 forest
4 wasteland
2 marsh flat
1 misty rainforest
4 swamp

sideboard
2x phyrexian crusader
3x krosan grip
2x go for the throat
3x extirpate
2x Pernicious Deed
1x relic of progenitus
2x null rod

[Esper3k]

Like I said, I don't think any deck in Legacy can be called a pure Aggro deck anymore. All decks, even Zoo and Goblins run disruption / removal / utility creatures.

Pre-MM, I really liked Sylvan Library (suggested to me by Metalwalker) as a 2-of in the deck. It smooths out your mid-late game draws and provides extra gas when you need to push through to victory.

I also liked Gatekeeper quite a bit. The tempo he generates can be incredible. Say you're on the play and you drop a Goyf or Shade on T2. Opponent plays a Goyf T2. You Gatekeeper on T3 and attack. Your next removal spell is now absolutely nuts if they drop a big dude t3.

[lyracian]

I agree Gatekeeper is great since he clears the way for swingers. But the new liliana is just too good to pass up. They fight over the same spot to be honest.

Overall I like it but I am never convinced by having Bob and Tom together; it just seems to mean a game lose at some point in a large tournament. Not sure what I think is the best chice for that slot as I am guessing you want a big bear for a quick finish?

I would definatly add the fourth hypnotic spector rather than the lone IoK.

[Esper3k]

I've never really liked Bob + Tombstalker either. Even with a Top, it's going to eventually kill you at least once over a long period of time, as Lyracian said.

Ooze is alright too, but without a way to tutor for it and it kind of hurts your own Goyfs and Tombstalkers, I'm not certain this is the right deck for it (I liked it more in Maverick as a 1-of GSZ target).

[KobeBryan]

I've never really liked Bob + Tombstalker either. Even with a Top, it's going to eventually kill you at least once over a long period of time, as Lyracian said.

Ooze is alright too, but without a way to tutor for it and it kind of hurts your own Goyfs and Tombstalkers, I'm not certain this is the right deck for it (I liked it more in Maverick as a 1-of GSZ target).

everyone seems to hate tombsalker with bob. So what do you put over the stalker in this spot? As the big beaters outside of goyf

[lyracian]

everyone seems to hate tombsalker with bob. So what do you put over the stalker in this spot? As the big beaters outside of goyfI am favouring persecutor as a big dumb beater; Lilliana gives an extra avenue for getting rid of his as well once the opponent is below 1 life. It is a bit heavy on the green but there is always Terravore or Phyrexian Obliterator.

[KobeBryan]

I am favouring persecutor as a big dumb beater; Lilliana gives an extra avenue for getting rid of his as well once the opponent is below 1 life. It is a bit heavy on the green but there is always Terravore or Phyrexian Obliterator.

Still not digging the persey in this deck. That card needs to be built around it like the gate.

Anyways, I've been testing my current list above. It fares pretty well against many decks, such as ANT, Doomsday combo. Fish is a simple game and counterbalance. I did lose to zoo and burn decks. But those are pretty much given, based on the matchups.

Junk/Rock decks are still hard as hell to beat. There is a new version of blue rock, which is actually pretty good. They use blue in the deck, so their mana is very fragile. Also, they don't really use counters. The blue is just for splashing. This deck is beatable, especially with discard and just beaters. They cannot outrace you with that deck.

Bitterblossoms have been very good to me thus far.

I am thinking of maybe just punt the zoo matchup and put in chains of mephis or perishes (for the Bant and Rug matchups) over the 2 phyrexian crusaders.

[lyracian]

A different take on Eva Green http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6902&iddeck=50076

Creatures [12]
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Terravore

Instants [5]
2 Realms Uncharted
3 Go for the Throat

Sorceries [13]
2 Raven's Crime
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Life from the Loam

Artifacts [6]
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [24]
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Barren Moor
2 Maze of Ith
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
3 Damping Matrix
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pernicious Deed

[KobeBryan]

A different take on Eva Green http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6902&iddeck=50076

Creatures [12]
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Terravore

Instants [5]
2 Realms Uncharted
3 Go for the Throat

Sorceries [13]
2 Raven's Crime
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Life from the Loam

Artifacts [6]
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [24]
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Barren Moor
2 Maze of Ith
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
3 Damping Matrix
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pernicious Deed


This is probably one of the worst eva green decks i've seen. There is no out for an abyssal except for 3 go for the throats. Pass.

[lyracian]

This is probably one of the worst eva green decks i've seen. There is no out for an abyssal except for 3 go for the throats. Pass.Apart from Miren, the Moaning Well and 3 Maelstrom Pulse's.

[KobeBryan]

Apart from Miren, the Moaning Well and 3 Maelstrom Pulse's.

The gate runs 15 abyssal removals

3 cabel therapy
3 go for the throat
4 gatekeeper of malikar
3 innocent blood
2 jittes

Even then, you sometimes have trouble removing abyssal. I've had to wait 3-4 turns before I found a removal once.

so 3 Pulse, 1 miren, and 3 go for the throats won't be enough.

[Annatar]

How many people have tested Liliana? So far she has proven herself to be a HOUSE in my aggroish version of the deck. She gets both players into topdeck mode quite quickly but in this case you are the one with the Cruel Edict on a stick. The ultimate isn't as important but it can't really hurt to have it.

[Esper3k]

How many people have tested Liliana? So far she has proven herself to be a HOUSE in my aggroish version of the deck. She gets both players into topdeck mode quite quickly but in this case you are the one with the Cruel Edict on a stick. The ultimate isn't as important but it can't really hurt to have it.

She has been pretty good for me in testing as well (now to finish my set!). I do believe she's strongest in an aggro deck, where you have the best chance of making her +1 ability one-sided, and that theory seems to be panning out in my testing.

[KobeBryan]

She has been pretty good for me in testing as well (now to finish my set!). I do believe she's strongest in an aggro deck, where you have the best chance of making her +1 ability one-sided, and that theory seems to be panning out in my testing.

From my testing, she wasn't that strong for me in aggro. She absolutely owned inconsistent combo decks, ie. show and tell, sneak show. Still not useful against Hivemind though.

[Esper3k]

From my testing, she wasn't that strong for me in aggro. She absolutely owned inconsistent combo decks, ie. show and tell, sneak show. Still not useful against Hivemind though.

Our natural discard is already pretty good against Hive Mind. Plus, that deck is kind of dead these days...

[lyracian]

so 3 Pulse, 1 miren, and 3 go for the throats won't be enough.It placed fifth out of 52 and it looked an interesting deck idea to me. I would cut the tops for more removal; Gatekeepers or Lily most likely. Also I do not think you need four Loams. Perhaps replace a couple with Entombs so you can tutor up the Well or other lands as needed.

[Esper3k]

Realms Uncharted also lets you get Miren. Pretty much guaranteed if you have Loam already.

[KobeBryan]

It placed fifth out of fifth and it looked an interesting deck idea to me. I would cut the tops for more removal; Gatekeepers or Lily most likely. Also I do not think you need four Loams. Perhaps replace a couple with Entombs so you can tutor up the Well.

He doesn't really need top anyways. With 24 lands and the highest casting cost creature is abyssal, he wouldn't have much of a problem.

I would actually drop the senseis since he runs 3 damping matrix on the side as well.

I think the biggest problem with this deck is that it is too slow for a lot of the decks out there in this meta. In a misstep meta, this can hang.

[lyracian]

I think the biggest problem with this deck is that it is too slow for a lot of the decks out there in this meta. In a misstep meta, this can hang.Any suggestions for making it faster?

My suggested changes -
Gatekeepers can be recurred with Volraths Stronghold so gives another option for getting rid of Percy.
Tarmogoyf lacks Trample but he does not require double green and gravehate does not kill him outright.
You only need one Loam to start recursion so playing two Entombs you can either search for Loam if you need it or silver bullet lands like Maze, Tomb or Well or even get a creature to use with Stronghold.


Creatures [12]
3 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells [18]
2 Realms Uncharted
3 Go for the Throat
2 Raven's Crime
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb

Artifacts [6]
4 Mox Diamond

Lands [24]
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Barren Moor
2 Maze of Ith
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

[soiber2000]

If you want miren only to sacrifice persecutor, it would be better to play phyrexian tower that does not require 3 mana to activate.

[lyracian]

If you want miren only to sacrifice persecutor, it would be better to play phyrexian tower that does not require 3 mana to activate.
Thanks I had forgotten about that card. The Well does offer life gain but if you are in such a desperate position that you need it you have probably lost anyway...

[lyracian]

.......

[Qweerios]

Anybody feels like giving Nyxathid a try? I have been playing Eva Green casually and have found that the new Liliana is pretty devastating with Nyxathid and Unearth. She is the queen of topdeck mode and having a plainswalker in that situation is extremely difficult for your opponent to overcome. Here is my current Eva Green list:


Creatures (14)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nyxathid
2 Tombstalker

Spells (18)
4 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Dismember
3 Maelstrom Pulse

Others (6)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Liliana of the Veil

Lands (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard (15)
3 Krosan Grip
3 Extirpate
3 Duress
3 Engineered Plague
3 Pernicious Deed


Funeral Charm is this deck's Swiss Army Knife, it acts as removal for any 1 toughness creature (Mother, Grim, Bob, Noble, Dryad, BoP, Lackey, Delver, Clique, and more...) and instant discard. The latter is a great tool when your opponent's hand size is greatly reduced. Instant discard is a virtual timewalk against an opponent in topdeck mode and shines against cards like SFM and Tutors. The ocasional combat boost and swampwalk are the most situational abilities but those are the cherry on the sundae.

IoK > Thoughtseize because of the discard theme. Losing life over targeted discard is detrimental.

I took the deck in a slightly different direction but I think it still fits the Eva Green Strategy of early disruption followed by threats. Any ideas? Sideboard suggestions?

[KobeBryan]

Hmm...funeral charm seems like a very good tech. Especially with those stupid 1/1. It might be worth a spot as a 2 or 3 of. replacing the IOK in the slot.

Nyxathid i have never tried, but seems powerful.

Yesterday, I played this idiot with eva green. He used obliterator and after i wasted/stifled his lands, he was bitching about holding two obliterators in hand and couldn't cast it.

Anyways, obliterator should not even be in eva green. The mana base is too fragile in eva green to even consider it. Also, he did not run liliana saying that she is tempo loss

Completely disagree. Liliana wins games against your hardest matchups, ie. cheating show and tell and NO decks. She also gives you the board control like no other.

[KobeBryan]

I'm having lots of success using funeral charm. I can't count how many times i've used it against nobles, dryad arbors, delvers, mom, dark confidants. End of draw discard is great when everyone is in topdeck mode. I still haven't used its swampwalk ability yet though.

so this is my list

Lands (20)
4x bayou
4x verdent catacombs
3x marsh flats
1x forest
4x wastelands
4x swamps

Creatures (13)
4x dark confidant
2x tombstalker
4x tarmogoyf
3x vampire knighthawk

Enchantment (3)
3x bitterblossoms

Instants (11)
3x funeral charm
1x dismember
2x go for the throat
1x smother
4x dark ritual

sorcery (11)
4x hymn to tourach
4x thoughtseize
3x maelstorm pulse

planeswalker (2)
2x liliana of the veil.

Sideboard
1x diabolic edict
1x dismember
1x smother
4x extirpate
2x tormod's crypt
3x krosan grip
1x null rod
2x pernicious deed (i don't think i need deed so much in my meta. I may just use 2 chains of mephistopeles).

Yes...I'm packing heat against gy decks.

[Jacemindbreak]

New to this site. Any suggestionso n this deck.

Lands (20)
4x bayou
4x verdent catacombs
3x marsh flats
1x forest
4x wastelands
4x swamps

Creatures
2x dark confidant
3x tombstalker
4x tarmogoyf
4x vampire knighthawk
2x nantuko shade

Enchantment
2x bitterblossoms

Instants

3x dismember
4x dark ritual

sorcery (11)
4x hymn to tourach
4x thoughtseize
3x maelstorm pulse
2x inquisition
1x umexaws jitte

2x liliana of the veil

Sideboard
1x diabolic edict
2x smother
4x faerie macrebe
1x tormod's crypt
3x krosan grip
2x pernicious deed
2x chains of mephistopheles

[Esper3k]

Bob + Tombstalker = Pain...(especially if you have no way to manipulate the top of your library)

[Esper3k]

Here's my current maindeck I've been fiddling around with. Liliana has been pretty awesome - I'm considering cutting 1 Pulse or Gatekeeper to up her to a full 4-of.

// Lands
3 [ALA] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [R] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [LRW] Forest (2)
2 [EVE] Twilight Mire

// Creatures
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 [M11] Nantuko Shade

// Spells
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
4 [CST] Dark Ritual
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [5E] Sylvan Library
3 [NPH] Dismember
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil

[Jacemindbreak]

Here's my current maindeck I've been fiddling around with. Liliana has been pretty awesome - I'm considering cutting 1 Pulse or Gatekeeper to up her to a full 4-of.

// Lands
3 [ALA] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [R] Bayou
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [LRW] Forest (2)
2 [EVE] Twilight Mire

// Creatures
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 [M11] Nantuko Shade

// Spells
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
4 [CST] Dark Ritual
3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
2 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [5E] Sylvan Library
3 [NPH] Dismember
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil

You don't like the card advantage BOB offers? so you would go bobless version?

I saw Greenpoe's list. He includes bobs and tombstalker to push out creatures each turn. What do you think?

How do you feel about funeral charm? Should i just pack more discard instead of the charm? I mean i've had games where i shot dryads, nobles, birds, snapcasters, cliques. With so many blue and threshold decks, do you find it useful?

[Esper3k]

You don't like the card advantage BOB offers? so you would go bobless version?

I saw Greenpoe's list. He includes bobs and tombstalker to push out creatures each turn. What do you think?

How do you feel about funeral charm? Should i just pack more discard instead of the charm? I mean i've had games where i shot dryads, nobles, birds, snapcasters, cliques. With so many blue and threshold decks, do you find it useful?

Bob is mighty, certainly :) I just don't like it paired with Tombstalkers is all. I think the lists that run only Bob are just fine.

Haven't been that huge of a fan of Funeral Charm. With Discard, I don't like letting my opponents choose (you're pretty much trading Funeral Charm for their worst card). Killing little dudes is ok and all, but in B/G we have access to just so much better removal, imo.

[Jacemindbreak]

Bob is mighty, certainly :) I just don't like it paired with Tombstalkers is all. I think the lists that run only Bob are just fine.

Haven't been that huge of a fan of Funeral Charm. With Discard, I don't like letting my opponents choose (you're pretty much trading Funeral Charm for their worst card). Killing little dudes is ok and all, but in B/G we have access to just so much better removal, imo.

Thats a very good point...why kill the one drops when we can just fly over them.

[Esper3k]

Our removal is generally so good, we can deal with larger guys. Our own creature package will generally outsize any little guys remaining on the field.

[Jacemindbreak]

Our removal is generally so good, we can deal with larger guys. Our own creature package will generally outsize any little guys remaining on the field.

How do you deal with Natural order rug.

I mean once they topdeck a natural order, its game. Its not like we can remove ALL of their green creatures.

[Esper3k]

How do you deal with Natural order rug.

I mean once they topdeck a natural order, its game. Its not like we can remove ALL of their green creatures.

Post board, you can always run Perish / Nature's Ruin, so yes you actually can eal with all of their green creatures :laugh:

With the list I've been running, I haven't been overly worried about Progenitus. You have discard to hit Natural Orders and if you can keep them just down to 1 creature (which they'll have to sac to NO), you can Gatekeeper or Liliana away Progenitus.

[Jacemindbreak]

Post board, you can always run Perish / Nature's Ruin, so yes you actually can eal with all of their green creatures :laugh:

With the list I've been running, I haven't been overly worried about Progenitus. You have discard to hit Natural Orders and if you can keep them just down to 1 creature (which they'll have to sac to NO), you can Gatekeeper or Liliana away Progenitus.

How does your sideboard look?

[Esper3k]

How does your sideboard look?

Currently running:
4x Extirpate
2x Duress
3x Choke
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Perish
1x Virtue's Ruin

[KobeBryan]

Currently running:
4x Extirpate
2x Duress
3x Choke
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Perish
1x Virtue's Ruin

looks like you wont' have too much problems with combo with duress and extirpates. How are you doing against tempo, dredge, reanimator decks?

[Esper3k]

looks like you wont' have too much problems with combo with duress and extirpates. How are you doing against tempo, dredge, reanimator decks?

Tempo is alright, not amazing, but alright - a resolved Liliana is very difficult for them to deal with. Having the basics is very useful as well. Gatekeeper isn't as amazing as it would seem because they have Spell Snares and Stifles for it (although if they Stifle it, you still at least get a dude out of it). Generally, you're actually playing a more controlling role in that matchup so you just try an keep them suppressed / card advantaged out (via Hymn, Gatekeepers, Liliana) until you grind them out or finish them with a big Goyf / Tombstalker / Shade. Post board, Extirpate is actually pretty awesome (in my experience) against the Tempo decks - if you hit any of their creatures (especially Delver or ideally Goyf), you've really neutered their ability to put up any sort of threat against you.

Dredge G1 is rough of course. Other than randomly Gatekeeper / Lilianaing yourself to kill your own dudes to kill Bridges, you have to hope for a T1 discard spell on the play to slow them down. Post board, you bring in the Duresses, Extirpates, and Deeds for things like Hymns, Dismembers, and Lilianas. I generally don't like having less than 4 pieces of yard hate in my 75, so my builds tend to at least have some game post-board.

Reanimator G1 isn't as terrible as it is for other decks since you're running all those Edict effects. Of course, if they god hand you (T1 Entomb, T2 Reanimation spell + protection), you can't do much about it. Maindeck Ionas are auto lose, but since Eva is such a rare deck, most people don't go for that G1. Liliana is pretty awesome here. Dismember is also important because it allows you to instant speed kill a Jin-Gitaxias. Pulses are pretty useless in this matchup (killing Jin on your turn is too slow, it can't hit things like Archangel, Iona, or Sphinx), so those come out post board.

[KobeBryan]

Tempo is alright, not amazing, but alright - a resolved Liliana is very difficult for them to deal with. Having the basics is very useful as well. Gatekeeper isn't as amazing as it would seem because they have Spell Snares and Stifles for it (although if they Stifle it, you still at least get a dude out of it). Generally, you're actually playing a more controlling role in that matchup so you just try an keep them suppressed / card advantaged out (via Hymn, Gatekeepers, Liliana) until you grind them out or finish them with a big Goyf / Tombstalker / Shade. Post board, Extirpate is actually pretty awesome (in my experience) against the Tempo decks - if you hit any of their creatures (especially Delver or ideally Goyf), you've really neutered their ability to put up any sort of threat against you.

Dredge G1 is rough of course. Other than randomly Gatekeeper / Lilianaing yourself to kill your own dudes to kill Bridges, you have to hope for a T1 discard spell on the play to slow them down. Post board, you bring in the Duresses, Extirpates, and Deeds for things like Hymns, Dismembers, and Lilianas. I generally don't like having less than 4 pieces of yard hate in my 75, so my builds tend to at least have some game post-board.

Reanimator G1 isn't as terrible as it is for other decks since you're running all those Edict effects. Of course, if they god hand you (T1 Entomb, T2 Reanimation spell + protection), you can't do much about it. Maindeck Ionas are auto lose, but since Eva is such a rare deck, most people don't go for that G1. Liliana is pretty awesome here. Dismember is also important because it allows you to instant speed kill a Jin-Gitaxias. Pulses are pretty useless in this matchup (killing Jin on your turn is too slow, it can't hit things like Archangel, Iona, or Sphinx), so those come out post board.


I see. So what about your control matchups, ie. countertop bant blades and such. You don't have krosan grip or bitterblossoms.

[Dragon_mage]

Hi everyone, it's my first time posting in this forum and i'm from Chile so we don't have English as our first lenguage so please be gently with me :smile:

I was trying with a lot of lists of B/G decks with the idea of play a deck that I always liked, Rock...... but after a lot of changes I finally hit with a list of a kind of Eva green deck, I'll post mi decklist...

Creatures (13)
4 Bloodghast
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tombstalker

Other (24)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smallpox
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Life from the Loam

Land (24)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacumbs
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
5 Swamp

... yes, I play 61 cards and I don't play BoB, mainly 'cause I don't have them ... my idea is get card advantage with the recurring of Bloodghast and the discard effect of Lili and smallpox, obviously we principaly want to discard lands or the bloodghast using the Loam to get them back and bloodghast too when we play the land :wink: .... I'm also playing the factories to have more guys when the opponent had sacrified their creatures (because smallpox, lili or gatekeeper)....

so that's my idea, I will appreciate your comments and critics.... regards:cool:

[Annatar]

Rummaging through Gatherer the other night I ran into Encroach. Does anyone think this could be a useful card for this deck? Sinkhole has been out of fashion for quite some time, but I think this card could fill that hole in the deck's strategy...

[Esper3k]

I see. So what about your control matchups, ie. countertop bant blades and such. You don't have krosan grip or bitterblossoms.

You have other tools against control. For one thing, CounterTop (while having pretty good recent performances) still isn't seeing a huge amount of play. Even then, we have lots of answers to CounterBalance (Discarding it, Tombstalkers, Maelstrom Pulse, Pernicious Deed).

Liliana, being a Planeswalker, is also particularly good against Control.

Post board, Chokes / Extirpates are pretty good against the blue control decks. Hitting a StP with your Extirpates makes life pretty rough on your opponents, especially when they have to deal with a Tombstalker quickly.

The version I've playing is less geared towards control as it is against tempo and mid-game style decks.

Again, I have never seen Eva as one of those decks that has amazing matchups anywhere, but has usually decent matchups across the board.


Hi everyone, it's my first time posting in this forum and i'm from Chile so we don't have English as our first lenguage so please be gently with me :smile:

I was trying with a lot of lists of B/G decks with the idea of play a deck that I always liked, Rock...... but after a lot of changes I finally hit with a list of a kind of Eva green deck, I'll post mi decklist...

Creatures (13)
4 Bloodghast
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Tombstalker

Other (24)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smallpox
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Life from the Loam

Land (24)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacumbs
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Bayou
1 Forest
5 Swamp

... yes, I play 61 cards and I don't play BoB, mainly 'cause I don't have them ... my idea is get card advantage with the recurring of Bloodghast and the discard effect of Lili and smallpox, obviously we principaly want to discard lands or the bloodghast using the Loam to get them back and bloodghast too when we play the land :wink: .... I'm also playing the factories to have more guys when the opponent had sacrified their creatures (because smallpox, lili or gatekeeper)....

so that's my idea, I will appreciate your comments and critics.... regards:cool:

Honestly, this list looks more like a Pox / Smallpox list. Have you taken a look at that thread at all?


Rummaging through Gatherer the other night I ran into Encroach. Does anyone think this could be a useful card for this deck? Sinkhole has been out of fashion for quite some time, but I think this card could fill that hole in the deck's strategy...

I think Encroach + Sinkhole would be fun together, but sadly I don't think that much LD is the way for Eva to go anymore. Fetchlands, Noble Hierarchs, and people still playing basics combined with cheap threats just makes our old LD plan too slow, imo.

[from Cairo]

..list..

so that's my idea, I will appreciate your comments and critics.... regards:cool:

I like the shell. Assuming you're playing against many of the DTBs - Rug Tempo, Maverick, etc., I think you probably run more 1-for-1 removal than necessary with 2 Ghastly, 2 GftT, and 2 Dismember, plus 4 Smallpox, 3 Gatekeeper, and 2 Liliana. That's 15 slots, 9 of which are dedicated creature removal. I might try lightening up a bit maybe 4-5 spells, the 3 Gatekeeper and 2 Planeswalkers.

I personally really like Darkblast in a Black shell right now. It's good against so many popular creatures: Grim Lavamancer, Noble Hierarch, Mother of Runes, Dark Confidant, Goblin Lackey, Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Delver of Secrets (pre-flip), Dryad Arbor - idk probably a couple others I'm forgetting, but really other than Nacatl and Kird Ape it deals with most other 1 drops and Bob/Clique. If you can keep these little creatures from clogging up the board than your Gatekeeper and Smallpox can force them to sacrifice their larger creatures.

I might try to find room for a Sylvan Library or two as well with the Loam+Fetches combo you can shuffle quite regularly which might give you better ability to filter through the deck.

Lastly with Loam and Urborg I would push a Volrath's Stronghold into your mana base, it's great for attrition battles and especially with Gatekeeper of Malakir can give you a psudo-lock.

To free up space I might try dropping the Dismembers (with Pox, Gatekeeper and Liliana you have ton of sac effects if you can keep swarms under control) and a Cabal Therapy for Darkblast and Sylvan Library. And probably a Basic Swamp can be dropped for Volrath's Stronghold.

[Annatar]

I was rather thinking of Encroach as the "improved" Sinkhole. It can't be Spell Snare-d and it is a turn one play which can be devastating for modern land light blue decks. Follow that up with a Hymn or even Wasteland and you might have a winner.

[KobeBryan]

dark blast seems very good. it helps with the goyf stall and can keep recurring.

The problem is you have to dredge 3 cards. Eva has very good topdecks in my opinion.

[Esper3k]

dark blast seems very good. it helps with the goyf stall and can keep recurring.

The problem is you have to dredge 3 cards. Eva has very good topdecks in my opinion.

Not to mention if you're playing Tombstalker versions, it helps feed the 'stalkers as well as grows your own Goyfs.

[KobeBryan]

Not to mention if you're playing Tombstalker versions, it helps feed the 'stalkers as well as grows your own Goyfs.

I've decided to follow what you have been doing...dropping bob for more creatures and library.

So far, it seems to work and the life loss is not as bad. Also, ive found Liliana gets in the way sometimes. I would have 2 cards, in my hand i'm saving for later, mostly a removal. I cann't use her +1 ability and thus wasting her.

I still need to figure a way for a better board. I saw in the aggro loam deck that antonius is using noxious revival as a 2 of in the board. he was boarding it in all day at scg vegas.

No to find 2 slots for dark blast.

[Esper3k]

I've decided to follow what you have been doing...dropping bob for more creatures and library.

So far, it seems to work and the life loss is not as bad. Also, ive found Liliana gets in the way sometimes. I would have 2 cards, in my hand i'm saving for later, mostly a removal. I cann't use her +1 ability and thus wasting her.

I still need to figure a way for a better board. I saw in the aggro loam deck that antonius is using noxious revival as a 2 of in the board. he was boarding it in all day at scg vegas.

No to find 2 slots for dark blast.

I've had the removal thing happen before. Generally, I'll just +1 her anyways since if they do drop a dude, you can always -2 it away.

Liliana is can actually force some difficult decisions though!

[KobeBryan]

I will try to do that with Lilly.

Any suggestions on what to take out for darkblast?

[Esper3k]

If you're just trying to fit one, I'd probably cut a Pulse. Pulse is one of the weaker cards in the deck right now, imo. It's slow and needs green mana. However, sometimes it's just needed to deal with big stuff or things like Planeswalkers / Enchantments / Artifacts.

[KobeBryan]

If you're just trying to fit one, I'd probably cut a Pulse. Pulse is one of the weaker cards in the deck right now, imo. It's slow and needs green mana. However, sometimes it's just needed to deal with big stuff or things like Planeswalkers / Enchantments / Artifacts.

I thought of that too...because I hate seeing pulses.

But how do you really cut a pulse when you need it to kill the most problematic cards?

I saw your board...how are you dealing with blade decks without krosan grips.

[Esper3k]

I thought of that too...because I hate seeing pulses.

But how do you really cut a pulse when you need it to kill the most problematic cards?

I saw your board...how are you dealing with blade decks without krosan grips.

Against Blade decks with fewer creatures (like the Uw ones), you can generally just kill their dudes since you have so much removal. Also, with Eva Green, Tarmogoyfs are regularly 4/5's, so if they get Batterskull, you can block a lone one and kill it fairly easily.

There's also the more traditional way Black discard decks deal with SFM, which is just make them discard their equipment once they fetch it up with SFM.

If they don't drop a Batterskull and drop something like SOFF, a lot of the time, your hand is already fairly empty anyways and again, you have plenty of edict effects to suppress any sword wielders.

Obviously, things don't always play out that way, but my experience with SFM decks is that they're generally slow and we tend to have many opportunities to either hit their hand or hit their creatures while beating their face with a single big guy.

[KobeBryan]

Against Blade decks with fewer creatures (like the Uw ones), you can generally just kill their dudes since you have so much removal. Also, with Eva Green, Tarmogoyfs are regularly 4/5's, so if they get Batterskull, you can block a lone one and kill it fairly easily.

There's also the more traditional way Black discard decks deal with SFM, which is just make them discard their equipment once they fetch it up with SFM.

If they don't drop a Batterskull and drop something like SOFF, a lot of the time, your hand is already fairly empty anyways and again, you have plenty of edict effects to suppress any sword wielders.

Obviously, things don't always play out that way, but my experience with SFM decks is that they're generally slow and we tend to have many opportunities to either hit their hand or hit their creatures while beating their face with a single big guy.

so its safe to say you leave a targeted discard in your hands at all times against one of these decks.

[Esper3k]

so its safe to say you leave a targeted discard in your hands at all times against one of these decks.

Really depends on the board state. Like if it's T1, you're on the play, and you have a removal spell in hand, it's pretty safe to just hit them with it then and get your information. If they have a SFM, just grab it then.

G1, T1 I'll almost always just 1 drop discard them on T1 just to get information on what I'm up against.

[Dragon_mage]

I like the shell....

I think you probably run more 1-for-1 removal than necessary with 2 Ghastly, 2 GftT, and 2 Dismember, plus 4 Smallpox, 3 Gatekeeper, and 2 Liliana. That's 15 slots....

I personally really like Darkblast in a Black shell right now....

I might try to find room for a Sylvan Library or two as well with the Loam+Fetches combo you can shuffle quite regularly...

Lastly with Loam and Urborg I would push a Volrath's Stronghold into your mana base....

first of all thanks for your comments.... I made some changes according to them, so there they are:

I took away the 61th card, so I've back to the standard configuration of only 60 cards :smile: doing this:

- 1 Dismember
- 1 Go for the Throat
- 1 Swamp

+ 1 Maelstrom Pulse
+ 1 Volrath's Stronghold

I put the pulse in 'cause it is good against all that non-creature things, and even is good against creatures :wink: and also I included the stronghold as you said...

now, I was wondering to take away 1 land (a marsh flats probably) and put another loam o the darkblast that was commented before.... what do you think? 'cause sometimes I have so much land in hand and keep drawing lands :frown: and with the extra loam o with the darkblast, i could dredge and get some fuel in the graveyard (lands or resources like cabal therapy or bloodghast).. the only bad thing is that if i dredge other kind of resource (walker, deed, removal) I will definitly lose them.... or the other solution could be include the library in this slot...

so... what do you think now?

regards!!! :cool:

[KobeBryan]

What do you guys like more? a 2-of Darkblast or 2 of disfigure?

Disfigure can get those annoying SFM, the transformed delvers, and a bunch other annoying 2/2s

but it wont' be recurring