[Single Card Discussion] Cataclysm

[raharu]

Cataclysm

2WW: Sorcery

Each player chooses from the permanents he or she controls an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, and a land, then sacrifices the rest.

There has to be some way to break this ho in half. Some builds of Death and Taxes use it, but not to the full potential that they could. Maybe it could be good in threshold, keeping Tropical/ Island, CB, SDT, fattie. Maybe in some sort of Uwb control deck. Maybe in a board control bwr Agro-control deck with Crack the Earth and Vindicate. I'm trying all of this, but I'm wondering if there is something horridly obvious that I'm missing.

[scrumdogg]

but I'm wondering if there is someting glaringly obvious that I'm missing.

Aside from spelling & grammar you mean? Like the way, in a control deck, you want to destroy all your lands? Perhaps you should play D&T until you understand how it truly plays & then realize that it is both the control & the aggro-control route which, to date, best utilizes Cataclysm. Angel Stompy did a good job back in the day also of keeping land (possibly 2 if it had Flagstones out), a good beater, and a nasty piece of equipment. What control deck is going to have UUWW (not to mention whatever 3rd color you want to add) to have both CB and Cataclysm, have board position set up to maximize Cataclysm, and be able to protect it when it goes off?

[raharu]

White thresh could do it quite well, but that's not the point. Yes, Wrb would possibly be a better color selection, and it's mentioned in the opening post. I know how D+T works, but yet again, that's not the point. There is some way to make this card golden, I'm sure of it, and I'm trying to find it.

Some type of Uw control loooking a little bit like Landstill would do this fine, just fine, and it could use Crucible of Worlds as well. Force of Will, Counterbalance, Daze and possibly some number of Counterspell could protect your board position/ Cacaslysm quite fine also.

@ scrumdogg: I'm missing an "h", and there are no grammatical errors to speak of in that sentance. But, because it's only a 2 second procedure and you're an Adept, I'll insert the one letter and revise the structure of the sentance. Maybe you should go look at the Landstill/ Deadguy Ale threads.

[zulander]

Why play this over wrath in a control deck? Are you seriously afraid of your opponents taigas?

[raharu]

Tiaga? WTF? And now to actually say something that will forward the conversation: Wrath of God takes care of all the creatures, but Cataclysm wipes almost the whole board. On the opposite, it leaves you enough to maintain/ salvage a really solid board position, considering the fact that control tends to run few permanents anyway (outside of land, but that can be a good thing in this case) and generally relies on a single finisher.

[from Cairo]

Cataclysm wipes almost the whole board. On the opposite, it leaves you enough to maintain/ salvage a really solid board position.

Actually the card is symmetrical... It leaves both you and your opponent's boards almost wiped and with "enough to maintain/ salvage a really solid board position".


I think the points that Scrumdogg and Zulander are pointing out are very valid. In a control deck versus most matches the thing you need to control are creatures having mass creature removal is relevant (WoG/Deed). Having some pinpoint removal for other permanents is great (Cunning Wish, Krosan Grip, Engineered Explosives).

Having the LANDS to utilize these control elements is the key, and destroying all but 1 land is a good way for you to punt games to an agro/combo opponent.

Most people realize the importance of lands to control decks and thus you see Armageddon's in Thresh's board against the more controlling Landstill, in this matchup Thresh takes the role of aggressor attempting to disrupt the control player's manabase. Also Tsunamis in Survival's Wishboard for the decks that plan to take the role of control against them; both Thresh and Landstill.

Trying to play control and while blowing up your manabase seems like a really horrible idea.**


**unless you go the route of a lock deck like Staxx or something but that didn't sound like what you were talking about, and in that case Cataclysm still sucks cause you have to sac off Chalices/Moxen/etc in order to keep a Smokestack on the board.

[TrialByFire]

I know how D+T works, but yet again, that's not the point. There is some way to make this card golden, I'm sure of it, and I'm trying to find it.

Obviously you don't because in D+T this card is a ridiculous house. My friend Pete used to play D+T at almost every tournament and made top8 a very good percentage of the time. Cataclysm is something you have to be ready for when playing D+T. I can't even count the number of times where he Cataclysm'ed, leaving himself with Karakas, Mangara, and Vial on 3. How much more busted can it get? Not to mention the fact that he's usually sandbagging lands so if you are not ready for it, you will never recover. Cataclysm is what makes D+T so good against control decks suck as Stax, etc. There is no better deck

[Nihil Credo]

I can't even count the number of times where he Cataclysm'ed, leaving himself with Karakas, Mangara, Vial on 3, and Jitte. How much more busted can it get?
I agree that many cards are awesome when people don't read them.

[TrialByFire]

I knew that it didn't sound right when I wrote that. Minus Jitte is still a hell of a beating when they can RFG your lands

[raharu]

More broken?


Maybe it could be good in threshold, keeping Tropical/ Island, CB, SDT, fattie.

Keeping Mystic Enforcer.

Also, I would like to note that it can't be the best thing ever in D+T, because a good number of builds don't use it. If it was that good in the deck, then it should be an auto-include.

[Peter_Rotten]

This thread is not being very productive.

Plus, not every card needs a thread devoted to it. What's next? [Single Card Discussion - Plains]?