Ultra Pro VS. Dragon Shield

[Cavius The Great]

I'm debating whether to continue to buy Ultra Pro sleeves or try something different and try out Dragon Shield sleeves. I've heard alot of good things about both sleeves but can't figure out which brand is superior. Any insight on this matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanx ahead of time. Peace.

[TeenieBopper]

UltraPros suck. Dragonshields are the best sleeves ever made. End of Story.

[Cavius The Great]

This might be a little off topic but I'm going to say it anyway. I was just recently pulling out sleeved cards from my binder. The sleeves were blue and the brand was Ultra Pro. As I was pulling out the blue sleeves I started to notice blue smudges on the tips of my fingers. Does anyone have any insight on what might of caused this? Would this type of incident affect my cards at all? Thanx ahead of time.

@Teeniebopper - Thanx for the feedback. I think I'm going to try out Dragon Shield sleeves ASAP. :wink:

[diffy]

KMC sleeves (http://www.kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery3.htm) > Dragon Shields >> Ultra Pro

The problem with the Ultra Pro sleeves is:
They split easily at the edges
The color isn't stable (you can have 2 packs of the same color with totally different tones)
They are very thin and not very robust

Dragon Shields are:
Thick and quite large
Very robust and wear-resistant

[Nightmare]

I've recently been using the Ultra Pro sleeves with the full Magic card back on them, with no problems whatsoever. I've been really impressed with them so far.

When it comes to sleeves, the crappy Ultra Pros are great for draft decks, but bad for anything you plan to play for more than a few tournaments. Dragon Shields are fine, but I've had a bad run of them recently. They tend to be miscut in the boxes, which is annoying as all hell. Also, they have a lot of room for the cards to move around inside.

KMC Sleeves are pretty awesome, but can tend to be too shallow, which leaves the top edge of your cards relatively unprotected. If you plan to get KMCs, get the ones with the matte finish, because they play AMAZING right out of the bag.

[Versus]

Everything Der_imaginäre_Freund said is so true.

I'll also add that UP are not only different in tone amongst the same color, but also vary in texture/thickness depending on what color you buy. Most people that use UP swear by specific color and won't use any other. I can vouche for Matrix Green. That's about it.

DS are not only too thick, but the hug the card too tight and cause them to warp similar to how foils do.

The people here turned me on to KMC and I love them. They shuffle nice, they fit well, and they keep the card flat.

Nightmare: I saw those just recently and at first glance thought someone was playing unsleeved. I knew they had money cards in the deck and I cringed until I realized what they were. Freaked me out.

[Cavius The Great]

Also, they have a lot of room for the cards to move around inside.


Does this affect wear and tear at all?

[Zork]

I had a set of the textured back UltraPro that showed no wear after 3 tournaments, but my dragon shields had the scratches of play after 1, rendering the other 25 sleeves not used for the deck useless in case any of them split.

The older UltraPro sucked some balls, but the newer ones are great.

[Nightmare]

Does this affect wear and tear at all?
Not usually, but it always makes me wary of them. Generally I stick to the textured white backed UltraPros, the new Magicbacked ones, and KMC Matte black/blue.

[TeKo]

Imo the new UP Raven Black are great.

[Cavius The Great]

Not usually, but it always makes me wary of them. Generally I stick to the textured white backed UltraPros, the new Magicbacked ones, and KMC Matte black/blue.

How can you tell if the white Ultra Pro sleeves are textured or not before you buy them? Is there only one kind?

@Teko - I love the UP Raven Black. I can't seem to find them at SCG.com anymore though. They just have them listed as black. =(

[Nightmare]

You can see the texturing on the back. It looks rough.

[Cavius The Great]

You can see the texturing on the back. It looks rough.

You can't tell though when you buy them online. :wink:

[Nightmare]

I'm like, 90% sure that Powder white is textured, and Chromatic is smooth.

[Cavius The Great]

I'm like, 90% sure that Powder white is textured, and Chromatic is smooth.

SCG.com only lists them as white. :frown:

I think I might just give Dragon Shields a whirl just to see what all the fuss is about.

P.S. - I'm officially leet now! :tongue:

[Shtriga]

I'm using lava red ultra pro and I hate them (I ordered them from a friend thinking they were like the old red ultra pro which had a great color). but they almost look pink and I don't like how the new ones are so thin and fragile (they tend to break a lot). so I was thinking wether to buy DS or KMC

there's quite a difference in opinions everywhere in the web, including here. some people swear by KMC, others say the quality is substandard. some say they are too large and don't fit some boxes while others say they are too short (old ultra pro were too short and I hated that as the tops of the cards would get scratched and you had to keep pushing the cards back in).

Versus says DS's hug the card too tight while Nightmare says they are too large and the cards move around.

a friend of mine is using KMC black and they tend to get stuck to each other if you have sweaty hands lol. the textured sleees are great because this won't happen much

probably different colors/models have different shapes and sizes which kinda blows. I'm stuck between buying KMC black and DS black

[Bovinious]

UltraPros suck. Dragonshields are the best sleeves ever made. End of Story.

QFT, I hate Ultra Pro sleeves, they just arnt smooth at all and always split. Dragon shields are good except for the few times you get a pack where they are all cut wrong to different lengths, but that hasnt happened to me in months.

[Media314r8]

I recently bought 700 sleeves for my cube (450 spells/nonbasics, 200 basics) and shopped/tested around for quite a bit beforehand. My impressions:

Old UP: Terrible, the textured ones I have from ages ago have had their textured backing 'flake' off, resulting in some transparent places in the back and goop deposits on the deck boxes. The smooth ones tore less frequently, but tended to have their edges raise over time, so the sleeves became very difficult to shuffle as they would stick in 'clumps'.

New UP: The textured ones shuffle better, but I was vary that the 'flaking' would occur again, and I don't want that kind of nonsense happening in my cube. I've stayed away from them recently, save for a 50 pack of textured purple new UP sleeves for drafting. 4 months of drafting have shown that some flaking still occurs, (mostly around the upper edge) having little 'flecks' of purple stuck to the clear side of your sleeves is most aggravating. I have goblins and 'Tog in raven black (goblins) and blue (tog) UP sleeves, and they have held up well (goblins in same sleeves after 2 1/2 years, Tog just in for a year so far, but already showing some signs of needing replaced. I decided to go with Raven black UP sleeves for the cube, and those have worked well so far. (enough friction so that tall stacks don't fall over, and shuffle/play well) WARNING: The batch colors on UP sleeves do vary (check the little black numbers) so if you plan on sleeving a lot or having 'switch out'able sleeves, make sure you buy them all at once, otherwise you will end up with different tones.

DS: My girlfriend and I bought some pink DS sleeves for drafting/casual play, and They play fine. (though are a little slick, so don't play EDH or cube with them as your tall stacks will fall over if the table is bumped) Wear is noticeable almost immediately, however, and my played 40 will never be able to be used in a normal 75 for a tournament, so they have been relegated to casual decks outside of drafting. I haven't had any tears with DS yet, but the easily scratch-able surface combined with the slick backs made me shy away from them. They do shuffle and play GREAT if you are going to just be using a deck for a month or so. (assuming you playtest, for some of you these may last years before they see signs of wear)

KMC: Haven't tried them, though they look nice. However, if the whole 'shallow so tops of cards get beat' is true, I would advise against this, as my duals and mishra's factories I have from revised/AT can vouch for (almost all old sleeves ended right at the top of the card... frown-town)

A note on sleeves with pictures/designes: DO NOT WANT! They may look nice, but the ones I have bought have started peeling within a month. My buddy bought some of the Magic card-backed ones, and thoose too peeled. I've tried both DS and UP, as well as off-brands, and I have to say, all pictured sleeves I've tried are absolute garbage, and cannot even be relegated to draft/casual sleeves, as the peeling is possibly more agrivating than mana screw while playing games.

my $.02

[Bardo]

I've tried them all, by the bucket. Hands down, the best sleeves I've ever used were the old Yanoman Gunmetal sleeves. I don't think they're sold anymore, but my last remaining pack (~2004) is keeping my awful Kamigawa Block Samurai deck warm.

I don't know if Ultra Pro has gotten any better, but they were always crap when I bought them.

For my money these days: KMC Gold. I love those things.

Dragon Shield are a decent substitute, though I've always found them a little too short and stubby for my taste.

[Nihil Credo]

If KMC sleeves are great but their only problem is being a bit short, you can just double-sleeve your deck. If your cards are very expensive this is a good idea anyway, as it fully protects them from fluids et similia.

[OffTheWall]

I like the Ultra pro sleeves that come in the 100 count boxes, and only come in Black, Blue, Red , and Green and they have a dragon on the box. I did run into the problem with the Blue ones color comming off, but the other 3 colors have been excellent. They are also very hard to find. I had red ones on my deck for nearly 3 months and the only issue was the ultra pro logo wearing off. The ultra pros that come in 50 ct packs are terrible, and do split all the time. I used to love dragon shield, but several packs I bought were cut to short. I also found most of the japanese sleeves to get sticky way to quickly, but they do feel nice when they are new.

[zulander]

KMC sleeves (http://www.kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery3.htm) > Dragon Shields >> Ultra Pro

KMC sleeves suck. At the running gagg I tested them out, and it was horrible. I had 3 sleeves crack while shuffling lightly. PINK Dragon Shields > the rest, purple is followed closely.

[Nightmare]

I can honestly say I've never split a KMC sleeve.

Zuhair, shorten your sig up, or I'll do it.

[zulander]

I can honestly say I've never split a KMC sleeve.

Zuhair, shorten your sig up, or I'll do it.
I used to work at a game store and back then the UP's were fine, but after a while they would tear up. I've had about 400+ dragonhshields and have only had ~10 tear total. The kmc's split very early on and made shuffling a nightmare, they were also bent backwards for some odd reason too.

[emidln]

While I have a soft spot in my heart for pink dragonshields, the only sleeves to never fail me have been these KMC Super Black that I buy in packs of 100. They have a glossy back and have never split, despite the amount of abuse I give them. They seem to have a long lifespan (might help that I use a playmat), don't become marked easily (outside of oils from your hands, the solution to which is wash and dry your hands), and are consistently cut. The consistently cut thing is becoming a huge bonus as I can leave most of my eternal stuff sleeved and switch between decks without desleeving/resleeving.

As for other sleeves I've tried:

Dragonshields - The cut and thus size of these cards varies from pack to pack. Sometimes you will be able to find matching cuts between boxes, but then you must worry about varying color. As far as slickness, they are roughly the same as KMC Super Black while new, but retain their slickness for at least an extra 4-5 rounds. If they are left out in the cold, they tend to break more easily than KMC or Ultra Pro. Their price, inconsistency, and lower availability keep me away.

KMC Matte Blue - I tried these on the recommendation of a friend. From what I can tell, the backs mark the outline of your card with white scuffs (on the sleeve, not the card), which leads to marked cards after about 5 rounds. This is unacceptable.

Ultra Pro Matte - The new Ultra Pro sleeves have consistent cut and color, but appear to be slightly less durable than my KMC Super Black. I say this because I split them frequently while drafting for the month or two that I played with Ultra Pro blue and black sleeves.

Anything Shiny - These will either peel or split, depending on the way the shiny was made. I bought a thousand shiny Ultra Pros for my cube due to sleeves being sold for a quarter less than anything else, and was summarily shown the error of my ways. I finally broke down and spent the $50 to properly sleeve my cube in KMC Super Black.

[Jaynel]

I have old Ultra Pro sleeves (circa 2003 or whenever UR Fish was good in Type 1) that still shuffle great.

KMC Matte Black has been my sleeve of choice after Ultra pro went downhill.

[wmagzoo7]

I have a different color dragonshield for each format, white for 5 color, red for type 1 and clear for pimped out ravager decks. The generally best looking sleeves are Dragonshields since KMC are nigh impossible to get your hands on in the U.S.

[zulander]

I have a different color dragonshield for each format, white for 5 color, red for type 1 and clear for pimped out ravager decks. The generally best looking sleeves are Dragonshields since KMC are nigh impossible to get your hands on in the U.S.
SCG.com

[FakeSpam]

I've found the old-school 100 count ultra-pros to be the best overall. Dragon Shields are a close second. After that, it's all just shit.

I have a pack of really thin holographic fonts that I use for drafting. They take a beating, but keep on going. Too bad they are really annoying to look at/play with. They were dirt cheap. $2 for 60. I think they give Japanese kids seizures.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

I've gotten multiple boxes of DS from multiple vendors over the years and never really have had any problems with length, though one box did have a few that split on the first shuffle (read one or two). I still have four year old ones in use, however they are scuffed a bit, bit still shuffle great and I haven't had any of those split. As for movement room in DS, yeah about a 1/16th of an inch, and they usually don't move, the shield is just a little big. I just ordered a set of KMCs today to test them out actually so we'll see how that goes.

[goobafish]

I have tried everything. I have them all in my house. Among them:

KMC Matte Black and Blue
Ultra Pro Originals
Ultra Pro Raven Textured Back
Yanoman 100ct (Old Ones)
Yanioman 75ct (New Ones)
Dragon Shields (All Colors)
Ultra Pro Japanese Sleeves
Players Choice

The hardest ones to get are the Yanoman 100cts which took me forever to find and cannot be found now, anyone who has them wants over 25$ per pack.

I find the Yanoman 100cts by far the best, with the Yanoman 75cts (still available) coming up not far behind. The only problem is some of the sleeves in the package are marked with a line down the back, similar to a cutline on a foil, just filter them out before using them.

KMC Matte are not great, they mark up on the back and front quite easily, but look good originally. The KMC Mattes are also all the same size, height and width so there is no discontinuity between them.

The Ultra Pro Ravens are the ones I am currently using. They seem to be quite good, they shuffle well, they feel good, they do not mark and foils look great in them. The problem with these is that there is a discontinuity, the sleeves are sometimes different heights or widths. These sleeves do not show wear.

Dragon Shields are great, but I find them too thick. They cloud up the front of the card after a while and make foils look bad. They are definitely great for people who do not pimp their decks.

Ultra Pro Japanese are okay, but not great.

Players Choice: ditto.

The clear best is the old Yanoman sleeves if you can get a hold of them. The new ones are still available, and although not as great as the old ones, they are probably still the best sleeves around. The other option would be Ultra Pro Raven textured sleeves.

[emidln]

Oh, I forgot about the Japanese Ultra Pro sleeves. I've had two packs of these that I get from a dealer in Chicago and they've been roughly the same as KMC Super Black sleeves. They come in a 100 pack like the KMCs. I'm not sure where else you can find these though.

Edit: Damnit, Cappy beat me to it. As I was trying to remember other sleeves I've used, I thought of the Japanese Ultra Pros and was apparently a few seconds ahead of me.

[Bardo]

The clear best is the old Yanoman sleeves if you can get a hold of them. The new ones are still available, and although not as great as the old ones, they are probably still the best sleeves around. The other option would be Ultra Pro Raven textured sleeves.

Ah, a man of good taste. Those are the best.

Failing those, which I can't find, I like KMC and have never once split a KMC those sleeve, despite going through a few dozen packs of them.

[TheAardvark]

Ultra Pro Canary Yellow are the best sleeves I have used in my 11 years of sleeve use, and it's not even close. Dragon Shields are pretty much garbage in my experience (about 6 boxes), but I know some swear by them.

So, yeah.

[MattH]

I bought two boxes of blue Dragon Shields back in 2005, and I am still using them. All of them - never once split even one. They also were all even enough in height that I was able to mix them together without notice.

They slip a lot at first, as someone upthread mentioned, but that goes away quickly. And yeah they do scuff easily, but very evenly, so it's not really a problem.

[Brushwagg]

I recently bought some KMC sleeves after hearing how "good they are". I say MEH.. After opening 2 packs I found that 1 pack (100 count) that 50 where cut an 1/8 of an inch tall then the others. Luckly I got 300 because I ended up with 150 one size and 150 another size.

Dragon Sheilds: Be careful on these also. (See my thread on quality problems). I'd stay away from the black because some are cut wider then others and you can't tell until the pack is shuffled. I haven't had a problem with the red yet.

UP:I've been using the Gallery ones and haven't had a problem with them. I also used ones simular to the one Nightmare has and no problem. Raven Black are fine, but the regular ones do suck.

[Pinder]

I'm not entirely sure what the name of the sleeves I currently use are, but I know they're made by Ultra Pro, and I know I love them. I've been using the ones I have CounterSliver in for about a year now, and they still shuffle great and I've only split one so far.


Oh, and while I'm generally not too picky, my one major quirk is that I absolutely hate sleeves with the stupid fucking anime girls/ninjas/skulls/dragons/faeries/busty vampire chicks/what have you artwork on the back. One color, solid color. End of story.

edit - Are my eyes deceiving me, or is KMC selling sleeves that go inside other sleeves? (http://www.kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery4.htm)

[TrialByFire]

Ultra Pro Matte Black Textured. I just bought 800 (8 of the 100 count packs that Offthewall was talking about) of them about 2 months ago for all my decks and my Type 4 stack. They all are exactly the same color, and they have no wear and shuffle great. I won't use Dragon Shields because although they are rugged as fuck and never break, my friend has them on his cube and they shuffle like shit. So UP all the way for me. My last batch of blue Ultra Pros lasted me from 1999 till I just bought these new ones. So maybe you guys got unlucky?

[Pale Moon FTW]

Dragon Shields differ a lot for each color. I've bought some black ones a while ago they're great, except a few were miscut. Recently I bought some gray ones and they split like there's no tomorrow. I think the gold colored are the best ones.

[yawg07]

I am a very heavy advocate of Japanese > American CCG Accessories.


KMC Matte Blue/Black Sleeves: They are wonderful sleeves, but seem slightly thicker than their normal variety and don't shuffle quite as easily.

KMC Matte Red Sleeves: Nice, but the pack I got had perfect widths, but inconsistent lengths, very unlike a Japanese company.

KMC Normal Sleeves: ALMOST the best sleeves I have ever used, all colors are wonderful, excellent shuffling and consistency.

KMC Super Holography: Excellent KMC quality, but they wear a bit faster and seem thinner to me.

Yanoman 100ct GUNMETAL Sleeves: EXCELLENT Sleeves, WOW. Perfect widths and lengths. Also all Yanoman sleeves are extra long so your cards are protected best.

Yanoman 100ct Other Colors: All excellent as well, but they seem to be manufactured just oh so slightly different than their Gunmetal counterparts.

Yanoman 75ct Sleeves: Not worth your time, on Yanoman's second coming they decided to drop all true quality in their sleeves. Thin, break easy, don't shuffle very well.

AClass 100ct OPAQUE Sleeves: OMG By far the best sleeves I have ever used, they never split, they are all perfect and they shuffle forever.
I have only ever seen one color for the opaque variety, but it's a cool burgundy.

AClass 100ct Transparent Sleeves: Same unbelievable quality as the opaques, but they are transparent colors. Best draft sleeves you can ever hope for.

Aquarian Age Clear Sleeves: Holy crap most heavy duty sleeves ever. These suckers will take punishment for-EVER.
EXTREMELY hard to find, but worth it if you can.

Aquarian Age Colored Sleeves: I have never had the chance to try them, I can't find them anywhere, but I know they exist.
Please contact me if you have any.

[from Cairo]

I used to use Yanoman 100s. But guess they stopped with those.

Since then I've been using KMC regulars, which in my experience have been fine sleeves. They don't mark up very quickly, last for an event or two without any trouble, don't seem to split really, just eventually begin to scuff up on the backs.

I just picked up two packs of Yanoman 75s... from what I've seen posted there's sort of mixed reviews on them and tbh I haven't tried them yet, maybe will resleeve for next event to give them a run. At the very least they included a SB divider in each pack, which I was probably more stoked on than I should have been.

[zulander]

Aquarian Age Colored Sleeves: I have never had the chance to try them, I can't find them anywhere, but I know they exist.
Please contact me if you have any.

Wow... That's some serious dough for some card sleeves (http://cgi.ebay.com/Gaming-Supples-Aquarian-Age-Sleeves-Best-Ever_W0QQitemZ290143760729QQihZ019QQcategoryZ19108QQcmdZViewItem)

[yawg07]

Bah ccghouse is a bunch of price jacking assholes. Another seller had some that they put at like $150 or $200 once and I talked to them.
They said that they just put em at that because they are so rare, they clearly didn't expect to get it.
I offered $35 to them and they declined me. Eh, whatever lol, maybe I'll offer $30 or so to ccghouse and see if they bite.
I'm just really curious, and I've had the clear ones and they were ridiculously strong.

I'm a player, but also quite a collector, so I don't mind paying more money for really rare items.
But I'm not expending $100 on sleeves haha

[Maveric78f]

When I was in a journey in Japan, I bought a 80pcs green sleeves pack. I can't remember the brand, as they were supposed to be only to help me and my friend playing drafts with no risk of damaging the good cards. Eventually, those sleeves ar by far the best ones I've used, very thin, solid enough not to fold or tear, not sticking to each others. Well I don't know the brand, but 80Pcs packs are not that current, are they? By the way 80 is the best number, as a deck is 75 cards and you may want to have some emergency sleeves in case of loss or damaging.

[Adan]

Phew, I use KMC Matte Black the most. They are solid, have an acceptable length and are tournament legal from the beginning (some judges prohibit the "Super XXX" Sleeves because they are glossy and may reflect so you can peek at the top card by just lifting the card a littlebit. Whatever.

On the second Place: Dragonshields. Once the best imo, BUT Dragonshield has 1 weak spot: They were like the best sleeves available here, but then they changed something in their prodict range. Every sleeve was cut 1 millimeter shorter than beforce, allowing the cards to slip out easier and dust can invade into the sleeves, damaging the cards.
But if you are lucky and get a well-fabricated one, you won't have anything to complain. Buying them is a gamble.

Ultra Pro:

Oh well, they have a variety of sleeves, but I will just talk about the rough-textured ones. I found that only the green ones are somehow well-fabricated. Ultra Pro "Matrix Green". They can stand a lot of punishment and I also have them for some time, they still look like new. Their corners somehow don't bend that easily than the other ones. I had the same sleeves in black, 500 of them. Every sleeve has got bent corners. The green ones somehow are still solid like on day 1.
But I think every other Ultra Pro Sleeves but those "Matrix Green" are garbage. But everytime I use those sleeves I somehow have bad luck.

Cardway:

They look interesting since they are long. About 3 millimeters of space above the cards so the sleeve closes making it harder for dust and dirt to invade, but when I tried to shuffle them, HELL NO!!! What a friction between every singel sleeves! You really could hear a kind of squeaking when you riffle-shuffle them. They also don't survive very long.

@people with anticipation:

What are those Aquarian Age sleeves? If they are as good as yawg07 are, I want to try them as well. Where can i get them except on eBay for 100 Dollars (WTF?³)?

[Cavius The Great]

Are these sleeves any good? http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=24119

I was thinking of buying them. It also doesn't label them PVC free which concerns me. What do you guys think?

[Adan]

It also doesn't label them PVC free which concerns me.

Why does it concern you? PVC is only crappy when you burn it. Because then you will get poisoned by the emerging Dioxin.

[Cavius The Great]

Why does it concern you? PVC is only crappy when you burn it. Because then you will get poisoned by the emerging Dioxin.

I thought it stains and damages cards. I could be wrong though.

[Adan]

I thought it stains and damages cards. I could be wrong though.

Ah. But KMCs are fine. I think the thing you are worried about is that in the past, some sleeves contained a littlebit acid to keep the sleeves ductility. But after some time the sleeves sweat out that acid, which damaged the card (obvious since paper is a organic material). But the sleeves are acid free.

But other people, correct me if I was wrong.

[zulander]

Are these sleeves any good? http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=24119

I was thinking of buying them. It also doesn't label them PVC free which concerns me. What do you guys think?

I actually bought a pack for the running gagg, by round 4 I was resleeving the deck back to dragon shields and ended up giving away the KMC golds to someone (I think whitewolf).

[Nightmare]

I actually bought a pack for the running gagg, by round 4 I was resleeving the deck back to dragon shields and ended up giving away the KMC golds to someone (I think whitewolf).This is why you don't like KMC sleeves. The matte sleeves are completely different than the glossy ones are.

[Adan]

This is why you don't like KMC sleeves. The matte sleeves are completely different than the glossy ones are.

Yeah, I almost forgot to mention that, matte sleeves are "thicker" than the glossy ones. That's why they are more solid.

[Arsenal]

I haven't had any problems with the new UP sleeves (50ct per pack). I have probably 8 different colors, all of them are fine for me. No splits, no scratches, etc. I don't think there is a clear, definitive winner here; personal preference is the deciding factor here.

[Cavius The Great]

This is why you don't like KMC sleeves. The matte sleeves are completely different than the glossy ones are.

Is the one that I linked above glossy or matte? I need to know since I'm considering buying some. Thanx ahead of time.

[goobafish]

Glossy. Matte specifically say Matte.

[Cavius The Great]

Glossy. Matte specifically say Matte.

How can you tell? You speak Japanese? :tongue:

[Nightmare]

They say MATTE, in English, on the front. Matte come in three colors - Black, Dark Blue, and Red.

[goobafish]

The matte sleeves say Matte Black or Matte Blue on the front and are only available in those colors.

[Nightmare]

The matte sleeves say Matte Black or Matte Blue on the front and are only available in those colors.And Red.

[Cavius The Great]

Are the glossy versions really that bad, though?

[goobafish]

Cool, didn't know those existed.

[Nightmare]

Are the glossy versions really that bad, though?They are much worse than the matte versions. That's all I can say on the issue, I haven't used them much.

[yawg07]

I would advise against the Matte Red, at least from the pack I got.
One of the 50ct packs were about 0.5 mm longer so they felt perfect on the sides but the lengths were off.

Anyhow, opaque Aclass is where its at. I also just found out that they come in Turquoise as well.

[goobafish]

Where can you get those?

[yawg07]

Well the last bit of Opaque Aclass is gone from eBay, everyone should ask overtheedgegames to stock some more, that's what I'm doing.

[goobafish]

Alright, I emailed them and asked for more. I want to try these and the Aquarians.

[Machinus]

UltraPros suck. Dragonshields are the best sleeves ever made. End of Story.

As relevant to this discussion, this is what you need to know. Old school yanoman gunmetals are better than dragon shields but they don't make em like they used to :(

[Whit3 Ghost]

SCG just got a new shipment of KMC. Mattes, regulars and perfect fits.

Get 'em while they're hot.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

SCG just got a new shipment of dragons. Mattes, regulars and perfect fits.

Get 'em while they're hot.I think they're KMC's.

I think I'll get some. Which ones are best? [As in colour or matte in terms of quality.]

EDIT: Reading the thread ftw. But perfect size (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=49167) or matte black (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=49164)?

EDIT II: Perfect size is clear? Screw that.

[mercenarybdu]

Dragon Shields were good when I started using them back a few years back but over less than a year they were completely rendered not legal to use in a tourney. I've also noticed that most of the sleeves have been as of current not so evenly cut (so 50 could be of one cut, 20 could be of another and another 10 could be of another while some could be dented up as I have noticed from some of the ones I pulled out of 3 boxes).

Ultra Pros vary on the color and type as they still run the problem of being highly miscut, dented on some of the sleeves, to even having bent corners before even being used.

KMC, I've had problems with that brand as after long usage of play the bottoms of the sleeves tend to split and break.

I've haven't tested Player's Choice yet but I've had a mixed bag on that one and I've recieved reports that Max sleeves tend to peal after a certain amount of usage at some events.


But keep in mind that it also depends on your shuffling style as some of these brands tend to break faster after being exposed to a certain style.


Over all I'd go with whatever that is avaliable on site or at the events to keep the judge at bay about that issue.

[Bardo]

EDIT: Reading the thread ftw. But perfect size (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=49167) or matte black (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=49164)?

EDIT II: Perfect size is clear? Screw that.

"Perfect Size" are sleeves for your cards that fit into "regular" sleeves. I'm not even kidding.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

"Perfect Size" are sleeves for your cards that fit into "regular" sleeves. I'm not even kidding.That seems a little strange, but I guess if you could put them in with the opening on the bottom of the outer protector if you're using power or something.

[FoolofaTook]

KMC sleeves (http://www.kmcsleeves.com/IMAGEgallery3.htm) > Dragon Shields >> Ultra Pro

The problem with the Ultra Pro sleeves is:
They split easily at the edges
The color isn't stable (you can have 2 packs of the same color with totally different tones)
They are very thin and not very robust

Dragon Shields are:
Thick and quite large
Very robust and wear-resistant

Yep, the KMC shields are excellent.

[Adan]

"Perfect Size" are sleeves for your cards that fit into "regular" sleeves. I'm not even kidding.


That seems a little strange, but I guess if you could put them in with the opening on the bottom of the outer protector if you're using power or something.

But somwhow even THAT is stupid. Christian Schaefer here also uses the double-sleeving technique because he has got/wants everything in foil and wants to protect them from wear and tear (obviously).

But he uses regular shields like...KMCs or those Cardway sleeves, puts the cards in and then puts the card together with the sleeve into a clear Ultra-Pro Sleeve with the upper end down... Dunno how to describe it, I just came from school's maths lesson and that's why I'm still a bit retarded.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1627/sleevingul7.jpg

It's not completely sleeved in to show you what I mean. The advantage is that the colored sleeves are then also protected and you just have to replace the clear sleeves from time to time. They cost 89 Cents per package (100 pcs.).

The disadvantage is, that those sleeves make your deck extremely slippery. And you have to press out the air that's between both sleeves after all cards are sleeved in. But it's much cheaper than buying those "very special, limitated, imba ZOMG"-KMC Sleeves for a hell of money... I mean, even those sleeves that will also get wrecked after some time.

[Cavius The Great]

Are KMC black Matte sleeves the best? I was debating whether to get those or black Dragon Shields. What do you guys suggest?

I've tried KMC Player's Choice and hated them. Are there KMC sleeves that are better?

[zulander]

I'm biased to the pink dragon shields. Never really had a problem with them.

[Shtriga]

I wanted to buy matte dark blue but I don't think they're sold around here. will have to order online, but I need a fresh credit card first and I cba to go down to the bank :/

[Dilettante]

I use plain KMC Pearl Whites or Dragon Shield Gold as my staples. Both hold up very well in general... no "fall out" issues and condusive to pressing your decks together... but the largest determinant for sleeves is probably your personal shuffling style. I just press the halves together or quick-cut half a dozen times per pass, no real rifling or pile shuffling, but it puts a lot more stress on the edges of my "left" side when looking at the card front (I'm right-handed). I split Ultra Pros and KMC Metallics like no tomorrow.

[Bovinious]

I'm biased to the pink dragon shields. Never really had a problem with them.

This explains so much dood :wink:

[boris13]

I use Ultra Pro and Dragon Shield. Never had a Ultra Pro break on me and only one Dragon Shield. I like them both, but Dragon shield get dirty and scratchy fast and is more noticeable.

[raharu]

Internet Hate Machine (IHM) has some Ultra Pro card cases that have the MTG card backs on the back, and they're very high quality cases. They don't split/ break, they shuffle exquisitely, and just look exceedingly badass. They also repel what need be in the event that you have to play on an "unsatiraty" surface (read: not a squeaky clean tournament table), such as a lunch table/ tile floor.

[Adan]

Are the glossy versions really that bad, though?

They are not bad. The thing is that KMC has got 3 types of sleeves.

As already introduced to you, there are Mattes, Super XYZs (insert random color) and there are also Metallic Sleeves which are also fabricated differently. Metallic Sleeves (they look like...yeah, metallic paintjobs on a car) have got 2 layers of transparent colored foils and a layer of metallic-silver foil between them. Those layers may split up. I also had bent corners very fast.

About the Super Series... I still wonder whether the pigments have got a effect on the stability of the plastic. The Orange and Blue ones survived quite long, while the Superblacks and Supergreens got annihilated by my shuffling-style quite fast.

The reason why I don't continue to use the blue ones is that they look crappy when the glossy effect is... like "eroded" away. The orange ones are still fine, but they have all bent corners after 4 months of wear and tear.

But the matte blacks are the sleeves I rely on the most, but I wish Dragonshield would fabricate their sleeves like in the past - properly!!!

But here in germany, we pretty don't have more than Dragonshield, Ultra Pro or KMC. I never heard of A Class, Yanoman or Player's Choice before, as well as "Aquarian Age Sleeves". The last one are the most mysterious ones, even google won't spit out anything concering gaming supplies. O.o

[Shtriga]

I thought I heard somewhere that those aquarian weren't produced anymore. but I don't know, only saw them once on ebay for like 50 bucks one pack :S

how good are the player's choice sleeves? I've seen them being sold along with UP and DS on my local store, if they're good I might buy them instead of ordering the KMCs online

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I don't know if the quality of KMC's are actually that good.

These [1 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage-01.jpg), 2 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage7.jpg)] are a day old, only used to gold fish Dragon Stompy around ten times, and there's already scratches. Unless they're just superficial smudges that can be wiped off with something.

[Joe Diamond]

Okay, I am a total sleeve nerd. So far i've tried:

Various Ultra-Pro sorts with solid colors: They all suck, miscut and different sized sleeves in a single Pack and sleeves that broke just after some shuffling. Never again.

KMC Matte Black: Look very good initially, but are full with marks just by sleeving the cards and then look really shabby, although they have a good quality and last long.

KMC Pearl White: Same good quality, also easily marked but doesn't look so bad, because the white color hides it a bit.

Yanoman Shine Purple and Blue 100ct: Excellent quality, last forever and I like especially that they are a bit longer. The only downside was that they felt a little slippery, but it's okay.

Sadly, I threw the Yanoman away some time ago (before I tried the KMC) because I was told the KMC are the perfect sleeves and I wanted to buy the same sleeves for all my decks, all black sleeves and at that time Yanoman weren't available anymore in Germany. After buying the KMC I figured that the people who told me KMC are the best were former Ultra-Pro and Dragon Shield users, who never touched the real deal ;-)

So, I now have the opportunity to buy some Yanoman 100ct Shine Purple and Blue Packs and wanted to ask if there REALLY is a difference between them and the gunmetal ones? Also, Yanoman produces this inner sleeves like KMC but has anyone a clue where to get them?

I have never seen some Aquarian Age or AClass sleeves, they are impossible to get in Germany.

[Dilettante]

If there is a sleeve expert... can you possibly identify the type of sleeve on the bottom? For comparison, the ones up top are KMC Super Green (and as you can see, the KMC picks up fingerprints easily). I picked them up at Gamer's Guild in Clifton Park, NY, an Asian sleeve, about 6-7 years ago, but I don't think it's KMC. I don't know what brand it is and I only have one pack of it, but it's been wonderful in terms of fit, feel, and durability. As you can see, they're transparent on one side and clear on the other.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a84/Riftkeeper/SleeveComparison.jpg

[Jak]

If there is a sleeve expert... can you possibly identify the type of sleeve on the bottom? For comparison, the ones up top are KMC Super Green (and as you can see, the KMC picks up fingerprints easily). I picked them up at Gamer's Guild in Clifton Park, NY, an Asian sleeve, about 6-7 years ago, but I don't think it's KMC. I don't know what brand it is and I only have one pack of it, but it's been wonderful in terms of fit, feel, and durability. As you can see, they're transparent on one side and clear on the other.

Isn't that the same thing? It looks like you have some clear sleeves.

[Dilettante]

Isn't that the same thing? It looks like you have some clear sleeves.

Bottom Left shows card front and is completely clear.
Bottom Right shows card back and is tinted green.

But this is just to identify their look. I'm more looking for the company because of their quality.

[Sek'Kuar]

When it comes to sleeves, it is basically the same argument as buying a car. Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge, along with all other brands all have their lovers and their haters. There could be a bad batch of the best sleeve, but a great batch of the worst and people will pick the "worse" sleeve just because of that. The real question people should consider is, "Does it get my ass from point A to point B?"

[Joe Diamond]

The sleeves shown COULD be AClass clear green sleeves, but I really am not sure. They can be found here, the store also has some last quantities of Yanoman Shine Blue, Copper and Purple, get them while they are still there:

http://www.hottoysandgifts.com/caslandpr.html

[Dilettante]

The sleeves shown COULD be AClass clear green sleeves, but I really am not sure. They can be found here, the store also has some last quantities of Yanoman Shine Blue, Copper and Purple, get them while they are still there:

http://www.hottoysandgifts.com/caslandpr.html

I think those just might be it if I remember right... Thanks!

[Shtriga]

I don't know if the quality of KMC's are actually that good.

These [1 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage-01.jpg), 2 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage7.jpg)] are a day old, only used to gold fish Dragon Stompy around ten times, and there's already scratches. Unless they're just superficial smudges that can be wiped off with something.

wow, do you goldfish your decks in gravel? those look terrible after just a day :eek:

[Joe Diamond]

I am sure he didn't, sadly this is how the Matte Black KMC's look like just after some use. That's why I don't like them anymore, maybe the Matte Blue or Red are better, but i also want to give the super black version a try.

Has anybody tried the KMC "Perfect Size" or Yanoman "Just Size" inner sleeves (a comparison between the two would be cool) and can give some feedback if they are really worth it? I understand when vintage pimps buy them to give that little extra protection to their PSA grade 10 beta power they have to put in their pimp deck anyway, but doesn't the shuffling get horrible or are there even other downsides?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

wow, do you goldfish your decks in gravel? those look terrible after just a day :eek:The deadliest surface of all.

Finished wood.

[deviant]

These are a day old, only used to gold fish Dragon Stompy around ten times, and there's already scratches. Unless they're just superficial smudges that can be wiped off with something.

Maybe it's not the KMC's and you just should have goldfished a less aggressive deck? Like muc or something..

[raharu]

The deadliest surface of all.

Finished wood.
Really!!! I haven't seen sleeves look that bad ever, outside the time that some kids at school played on apshalt. Even then, it's a close comparison.

[4815162342]

I normally go for Dragon Shields. Recently tho I noticed that the sleeves are being produced with less quality as in other years. I bought a pack of brown sleeves and they all had this weird imprint in the back so I returned them because they were defective. Also I get a lot of incidents were the sleeves are cut at different lengths. (I.E. half the sleeves are a bit taller than the other half)
Its been happening a bit recently so I might decide to switch to some other brand if it keeps up.

[Adan]

Has anybody tried the KMC "Perfect Size" or Yanoman "Just Size" inner sleeves (a comparison between the two would be cool) and can give some feedback if they are really worth it? I understand when vintage pimps buy them to give that little extra protection to their PSA grade 10 beta power they have to put in their pimp deck anyway, but doesn't the shuffling get horrible or are there even other downsides?

KMC Perfect Size sleeves are not exactly for playing, imagine them as very tight penny sleeves where you can put your cards in. You then put the card with the sleeve into a regular sleeve. Those perfect Size sleeves' purpose is to double-sleeve your cards.

I can't say much about the Yanomans, but I discovered them at the Extended PTQ in Hanau. Gunmetal-Black. I took a look at them and I recorgnized that those were the same sleeves my buddy Olli used for some time and they felt like paper (not like regular printer-paper, but like the recycled newspaper-paper, you know what I mean?). Horrible quality...

I recommended him the KMC Matte Black sleeves and now he's happy with 'em.

[Joe Diamond]

Well, I know the perfect fit sleeves are for inner sleeving, I just wanted an opinion if this is any good or useless. Also, I already owned old Yanoman in Shine Purple and Blue and they were the best so far, much better than the KMC Matte Black (I would like them to be better, as they are easy to get in Germany, as u know I think, but they really aren't that good), I just wanted to know if someone can really compare the shiny ones with the gunmetal sleeves, if there is a big difference.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I'm going to bump this one more time for advice on repairing my damaged sleeves. I have a thing coming up and don't want to get new ones, water doesn't work, and I don't know if boot polish will effect the thickness at all.

Anyone know?

[mercenarybdu]

I'm going to go get me some of them Ultra-Pro mtg logo sleeves. I heard they were pretty good off of a recent report from tcgplayer.com, as I intend to test them out myself to see how much they do last after long periods of play testing.

Dragon Shields don't last after a long period of time but they are a bit of a risk when buying a box.

KMC break too easily.

I hope to cover a consumer report in one of my future blogs after my previous one sounded like shitte.

[goobafish]

I wrote that whole thing on the sleeves I have tried. I have used my Ultra Pro Raven (Textured Back) for about 4-5 events now. No other sleeves have lasted as long as these with the possible exception of Yanoman 100s. These sleeves are amazing.

[jbmulder]

Gooba, are they the 'new' Raven Black or the 'old'?

The old sleeves are amazing, but the new ones don't have the same backing and even when a website says they have the old ones they send you the new.

It's a tease.

[goobafish]

I am not sure. I am pretty sure they have the new. Whichever they are, they are amazing.

[dakkon]

I’ve been using Dragon Shield (silver) sleeves for about a year or two now. The sleeves are very thick and durable. However, because they are thick and have lost their slickness, they clump together and they’re difficult to shuffle.

I’m beginning the painful process of sleeving up my T1/1.5 playable cards and I’ve put them in KMC perfect size (awesome btw) sleeves, and I’m looking for good candidates for outer-sleeves.

I’ve picked up a box of A’class (clear) sleeves and they’re as good as yawg07 and others have described. Unfortunately, because they are clear, I’m only using them for cube/250/draft. I’ve contacted some local stores to see if they can import some of the solid colored backed sleeves from Japan (now available in 4 colors) so we’ll see.

In the meantime, I’m using UP textured back (raven black) for tournament decks and have not been disappointed. However, I’ve had problems with UP in the past so I’m don’t know whether they’ll last.

[yawg07]

Well, I know the perfect fit sleeves are for inner sleeving, I just wanted an opinion if this is any good or useless. Also, I already owned old Yanoman in Shine Purple and Blue and they were the best so far, much better than the KMC Matte Black (I would like them to be better, as they are easy to get in Germany, as u know I think, but they really aren't that good), I just wanted to know if someone can really compare the shiny ones with the gunmetal sleeves, if there is a big difference.

I've used the Copper and Shine Blue 100ct Yanoman and in all honesty the Gunmetal 100ct blow them away.
They were nothing but PERFECT all the way through. Strong, stable, and I've still got em in really good shape.

[iOWN]

I've been trying the new 75ct Gunmetal, and there's really nothing wrong with them. My single gripe is with the color; playing charcoal-black sleeves is not pleasing to look at. I used to use the old 50ct Tsunami Blue UP, and I don't think they are as bad as people say. The color was great, the sleeves rarely broke for me, and they shuffled well. The downside is that the colors were always slightly different if bought at different times of the year. :S

I ordered some A'Class Solids... they're taking a long time to come though. Better be worth it. ;)

[Bardo]

I'm going to bump this one more time for advice on repairing my damaged sleeves. I have a thing coming up and don't want to get new ones, water doesn't work, and I don't know if boot polish will effect the thickness at all.

Anyone know?

Pretty sure the only way to "repair" damaged sleeve is to throw them in the trash and buy some new ones. I wouldn't mess around with boot polish and the like; that's just asking for serious trouble.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Pretty sure the only way to "repair" damaged sleeve is to throw them in the trash and buy some new ones. I wouldn't mess around with boot polish and the like; that's just asking for serious trouble.Yeah, after some thought, boot polish could ruin any cards touched accidentally. That, and it just wouldn't be worth the effort.

[yawg07]

You CAN use baby powder to make sleeves have that "new sleeve feel"
It will make them slide like they did when you bought them, my friend used to do it.
I can't say I recommend it, though. Your sleeves will produce a small cloud for a little while when you riffle.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I'm going to bump this one more time for advice on repairing my damaged sleeves. I have a thing coming up and don't want to get new ones, water doesn't work, and I don't know if boot polish will effect the thickness at all.

Anyone know?

Im surprised water didnt work. What about them are you trying to repair/clean? Ive always been able to clean plastic sleeves of dirt with just a wet paper towel with all the water squeezed out of it, and a little elbow grease.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Im surprised water didnt work. What about them are you trying to repair/clean? Ive always been able to clean plastic sleeves of dirt with just a wet paper towel with all the water squeezed out of it, and a little elbow grease.The damage is several small scratches shown here [1 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage-01.jpg), 2 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage7.jpg)]. I tried rinsing it, but I'll try again with more force.

[goobafish]

New sleeves time.

[xsockmonkeyx]

The damage is several small scratches shown here [1 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage-01.jpg), 2 (http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb242/Sacul_Kamadaka/Damage7.jpg)]. I tried rinsing it, but I'll try again with more force.

Scratches are different, aint nothin gonna git em out. Trying again with more force will probably just make the scratches worse. Listen to Gooba.

[Pltnmngl]

I use Dragonshields, but I double-sleeve most of my cards with a smaller, thinner, clear sleeve.

[Cavius The Great]

I just recently bought some black dragon shield sleeves and to my dismay they sucked balls. The sides of the sleeves are white due to horrible material cutting and they look like marked cards. The sleeves also seem to be a magnet for dust thus making me believe they're strictly inferior to Raven Black Ultra Pros. Don't get me wrong, the sleeves feel great in your hands, but that's probably the only plus side to these horrible brand of sleeves.

[andrew77]

ULTRA PRO- To be honest I've never had a good experience with ultrapros. If they dont come miscut and aren't a pain to shuffle they tend to break. I have had more ultra pro sleeves split than any other brand.

KMC SUPER- These sleeves are way too slippery for my taste. They seem fairly nice otherwise, but do break from time to time.

DRAGON SHIELD- There was a time when you could buy a pack of dragon shields and know you were getting good sleeves. Nowadays though its a coin toss. I recently bought 4 packs of dshields and had a bunch of problems with them. One of the packs contained fairly warper sleeves. This made shuffling a pain. Another pack contained sleeves of 2 different cuts making them useless. 50 were cut one way 50 another. In one of the other packs the cards were cut poorly and looked marked from the side (the side of the sleeves looked worn due to being cut poorly). One pack had good sleeves, but I really don't like having to buy 4 packs of shields just to get enough sleeves for a tourny deck. If you get a good pack though these sleeves are great. They do not break easily, shuffle great, look great, feel great, and offer very good protection for your cards.

I just recently placed an order for some Aclass sleeves. Hopefully they will be as awesome as some of you guys said they'd be.

[Mooglar]

Over the time i've been playing magic i've bought about 800 pink dragonshield sleves, theyre the best i've had like 50 tear and ive played with them for about 3 years now ^^

[Joe Diamond]

Sorry for the necromancy but after not beeing satisfied with KMC Mat-Black, old Yanomans (except Gunmetal), Dragon Shields and various Ultra-Pros i have found new ones i am very satisfied with.

Japanese Ultra-Pros:

http://manamaze.com/products/product334

I have the green version now for quite some time and i am perfectly happy with them. Shuffle well, don't brake, they are a little shiny on the back but i am happy with it. Try them when u need new ones. Maybe Ultra-Pro becomes as good as back in the days.

[Adan]

Sorry for the necromancy but after not beeing satisfied with KMC Mat-Black, old Yanomans (except Gunmetal), Dragon Shields and various Ultra-Pros i have found new ones i am very satisfied with.

Japanese Ultra-Pros:

http://manamaze.com/products/product334

I have the green version now for quite some time and i am perfectly happy with them. Shuffle well, don't brake, they are a little shiny on the back but i am happy with it. Try them when u need new ones. Maybe Ultra-Pro becomes as good as back in the days.

I am using them as well, they are similar to KMC Super Sleeves, but they definitely take more punishment than the KMCs. Out store has got them in White, Black, Green, Blue and Red.

But I returned to KMC Matte Red. It's strange, but they are in fact way more stable than their blue and black pendants. But there are 2 colorings. The brighter one is the better one.

[URABAHN]

Japanese Ultra-Pros:

http://manamaze.com/products/product334

Japanese Ultra Pros? How interesting! I guess they're trying out a Japanese style of sleeves?

[rockout]

I personally have been using Raven Black Ultra Pro Sleeves since I started going to tournaments about 3-4 years ago. I've been using the same set of 75 Raven Black Sleeves for about 7 tournaments now and still no scratches on the back, but there are marks on the clear side of the sleeve.

I've found that any time I go to stores that sell UP the Raven Black color is sold out. I have to either buy them online or go to shop where the owner is nice enough to hold them for me.

[cdr]

Japanese Ultra Pros? How interesting! I guess they're trying out a Japanese style of sleeves?

These have been around for about two years. They are made in Japan, iirc (haven't tried them in two years), but I guess it might just be japanese plastic.

[goobafish]

I personally have been using Raven Black Ultra Pro Sleeves since I started going to tournaments about 3-4 years ago. I've been using the same set of 75 Raven Black Sleeves for about 7 tournaments now and still no scratches on the back, but there are marks on the clear side of the sleeve.

I've found that any time I go to stores that sell UP the Raven Black color is sold out. I have to either buy them online or go to shop where the owner is nice enough to hold them for me.

I have tried all kinda of sleeves. These are the ones I use. I prefer them to Yanoman 100ct Gunmetals. I have also tried the Japanese Ultra Pro, and although they were fine at first, they turned out to be pretty bad.

[thefreakaccident]

I have had no problem with dragon shields...

They have been doing just fine for me for the past 4 years I have been back.


I generally play in either pink or black sleeves... ocassionally you may find me in blue sleeves, but that is a rare sight...

I have a compulsive thing that I do with sleeves though.

I cannot play with the same sleeves in more than five tournament... I have to have new ones b/c for some reason, even though I have and use a mat, after a couple weeks they start to feel a little sticky to me... and I like the slippery feel of new sleeves... it makes me feel nice and clean and fresh.

[Ebinsugewa]

Yanomans are all I use.

[Jak]

I have been using KMC for a while and they are pretty nice. Nice and slick and they don't wear out too fast.

[Adan]

I can't understand why you are all using Yanomans. My friend has got some and they are so thin, they feel like paper and have a loose fit so dust and dirt can easily slip into it.

After I showed him KMC sleeves, he changed them and is now playing with KMC sleeves

[badjuju]

Okay I know this is going to sound disgusting, but I have hands that build up gunk quickly (I can probably use regular Ultra-Pros rigorously for a few weeks before they start going kinda bad). So when I'm buying sleeves, I want stuff that can withstand gunk buildup. So far Dragon Shields have been the best for me. They get a little gunky, but I'm still using the same black ones that I've used for over a year. New Ultra Pros last half as long, and KMC only lasts for a month. KMC, while very slick to begin with, start getting grimy very, very quickly.

That's for anyone else with gross hands. :(

[Skeggi]

How on earth do your hands build up any sticky or greasy residue or accumulation quickly? Did you train them or what? :eek:

[Jak]

I use this awesome combination of soap + water.

[Arsenal]

Question. Do the KMC Perfect sleeves fit in new-style UP Raven Black sleeves?

[Nihil Credo]

Okay I know this is going to sound disgusting, but I have hands that build up gunk quickly (I can probably use regular Ultra-Pros rigorously for a few weeks before they start going kinda bad). So when I'm buying sleeves, I want stuff that can withstand gunk buildup. So far Dragon Shields have been the best for me. They get a little gunky, but I'm still using the same black ones that I've used for over a year. New Ultra Pros last half as long, and KMC only lasts for a month. KMC, while very slick to begin with, start getting grimy very, very quickly. If it seriously isn't just a case of bad hygiene (crazy, I know, with MtG players), carry wet paper napkins with you. The type they give you at a restaurant when you order something that you eat with your hands should do the trick.

[goobafish]

Question. Do the KMC Perfect sleeves fit in new-style UP Raven Black sleeves?

I should find out in a couple of days, i ordered 700 of each.

[Arsenal]

I was going to order 400 KMC Perfect Sleeves, but all I have are UP Sleeves, most of them new-style Raven Black. I remember hearing/reading some grumblings that the Perfect Sleeves do not always fit due to UP sleeves being miscut occassionally.

[badjuju]

lol I knew I was gonna get some responses.

It's not bad hygiene I don't think, cause I do wash my hands regularly. I think I just have a really oily body (wow that sounds gross). It's not like large amounts of corrosive gunk, but it's like what happens to all sleeves over time...just faster :(

[Jak]

lol I knew I was gonna get some responses.

It's not bad hygiene I don't think, cause I do wash my hands regularly. I think I just have a really oily body (wow that sounds gross). It's not like large amounts of corrosive gunk, but it's like what happens to all sleeves over time...just faster :(

Haha wow...

My advice, just keep washing your hands or do as Nihil suggested and cary some wet-naps. Your hands are just getting sweaty from nerves, etc and of course that sweat gets on your sleeves. Keep your hands nice and clean and just wipe them off with soap + water or wet-naps.

[Shtriga]

About Raven Black Ultra pros:

I bought a couple of Lava Red Ultra pros earlier in the year. However I don't really like their feel, they're thin, feel papery, and the texture in the back kinda pisses me off.

Are raven black any different? Everyone says they're great, but for some reason, only that color in particular.


Also: is there any difference between the 50 packs and the 100 packs of ultra pros? The 100 packs have no logo and I wonder if there are any more differences

[Ophidian]

I was going to order 400 KMC Perfect Sleeves, but all I have are UP Sleeves, most of them new-style Raven Black. I remember hearing/reading some grumblings that the Perfect Sleeves do not always fit due to UP sleeves being miscut occassionally.

I was more than disappointed with the Perfect Sleeves.. I ordered enough for a deck + KMC sleeves, and when I had sleeved everything together it looked like I was playing a Battle of Wits deck.. seriously, I couldn't fit it in my deckbox, and shuffling was a nightmare.

They seemed like a great idea, but they just aren't practical.

[mercenarybdu]

About Raven Black Ultra pros:

I bought a couple of Lava Red Ultra pros earlier in the year. However I don't really like their feel, they're thin, feel papery, and the texture in the back kinda pisses me off.

Are raven black any different? Everyone says they're great, but for some reason, only that color in particular.


Also: is there any difference between the 50 packs and the 100 packs of ultra pros? The 100 packs have no logo and I wonder if there are any more differences

It's a waste of resources, I bought 4 packs of 50 (raven black) and I only found 60 evenly cut sleeves (2 sets with 40 of another cut, 20 spares of one cut, 17 spares of another and the rest in different cuts or even dented) out of those 4 packets after spending 8+hours scuttling through all of them....

There is no difference between the 100 and 50, they are all going to be not evenly cut by large margins...

Ultra-Pro is getting better with the mtg 80 counts, but I still find some uneven sleeves by an atomic meter....

I still find the same problem with Dragon Shields too and I have no plans of buying anymore of that kind unless it is to a last resort...

[Shtriga]

So, in conclusion, all sleeves suck, and are awesome at the same time. Lol. Every brand has people that swear by it, while others have problems with it.

[mercenarybdu]

ya, that is our conclusion....

Each sleeve brand has their tradeoffs, while still retaining problems amongst eah other from unevenness to busting depending on how the cards are shuffled....

[jakolhops]

I am going to a Tourny that the 1st place prize is a Black lotus so i figured i should rock something special in order to strike fear into my opponents.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//carddisplay.php?product=51774

Hoping these do the trick, has anyone seen these in person or used them???

[Zach Tartell]

So, folks, I just heard about KMC "perfect fit" sleeves. What's the deal with them? Do they just slip over your card and then go into another sleeve?

[goobafish]

So, folks, I just heard about KMC "perfect fit" sleeves. What's the deal with them? Do they just slip over your card and then go into another sleeve?
Yeah. They work really well. You put the perfect fits on upside down, then put them in a regular sleeve normally.

[Bryant Cook]

Yeah. They work really well. You put the perfect fits on upside down, then put them in a regular sleeve normally.

Whats the point?

[badjuju]

Whats the point?

*shrug*
It's like doubling up on underwear on a cold winter morning.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Whats the point?UNDERWATER MAGIC.

[goobafish]

Whats the point?

Well, I use them for Vintage. They protect the deck from opponents who try to riffle shuffle your deck. Also, I constantly take cards out of my deck and put them in my binder, the perfect fit sleeves allow them to be pulled out of the binder without getting dirt and your hands on them. Worthwhile IMO for beta power.

[Shtriga]

I bought a pack of those magic backed UP sleeves, and I'm well impressed. They're by far the best sleeves I've ever had.

[badjuju]

I bought a pack of those magic backed UP sleeves, and I'm well impressed. They're by far the best sleeves I've ever had.

They feel a lot like Dragonshields to be honest.

[socialite]

KMC MAT (BLUE OR BLACK, RED SHOWS BACK OF CARDS) + KMC PERFECT FIT

Serious get outta here if you honestly think anything but old school Yano Gunmetal are equal to or better than the KMCs. I have tried everything and nothing even comes close to the KMC. You seriously have to gouge these sleeves to even come close to scratching them.

@ Shtriga Id rather wrap my Magic Cards in sandpaper then use those, they are horrid.

Dragonshield are overpriced Ultra Pros with more colors.

Ultra Pros are Ultra Pros.

If you can pull the sleeve apart rather easily its crap.

[mercenarybdu]

I bought a pack of those magic backed UP sleeves, and I'm well impressed. They're by far the best sleeves I've ever had.

Which ones were you refering to again?

There is the original black with the mtg logo and then there are those in the 80 count packets with various backings.

[Shtriga]

The white ones with the magic-card-back on the...back. Around here there isn't a great deal of variety, I have never seen the black ones with the logo for sale

[Adan]

KMC MAT (BLUE OR BLACK, RED SHOWS BACK OF CARDS) + KMC PERFECT FIT

Serious get outta here if you honestly think anything but old school Yano Gunmetal are equal to or better than the KMCs. I have tried everything and nothing even comes close to the KMC. You seriously have to gouge these sleeves to even come close to scratching them.

@ Shtriga Id rather wrap my Magic Cards in sandpaper then use those, they are horrid.

Dragonshield are overpriced Ultra Pros with more colors.

Ultra Pros are Ultra Pros.

If you can pull the sleeve apart rather easily its crap.

Word.

I sometimes use those japanese Ultra Pro Sleeves, they are actually like the KMC Super Black/Blue/Green/whatever, with the difference that they are a bit more solid and have a stronger coloring.

But at the moment I am using the Red-Mat KMCs which show the back of the cards, but those sleeves are so far the most solid sleeves I had in my hand. And they don't look fucked up, even after some heavy play.

The mat red back doesn't reveal you scratches or becomes matted like you can see on the mat black and mat blue ones. They also don't curl. Only the tranparent front becomes a littlebit milky.

The only thing that is annoying is when someone shuffles your deck and manages to make some dog-ears on your sleeves. That's annoying, but when shuffling properly, it should not happen as they are solid and don't bend so easily.

[Frenger]

Whats the point?

When I got into the realm of BB duals and the like, I realized my cards were getting a bit dirty/worn on the top despite being in a sleeve. So I bought a pack of perfect fits (which have never broken) and decided to protect my investments.

Oh, btw, KMC > Ultra Pro > every other brand > dragon shield.