Trinisphere, Sphere, Thorn Vs Chalice

[Mooglar]

Just want to clear this up and thx to all who helped with the changeling issue =)

If Trinisphere sphere or thorn are out and a person plays chalice can he pay an uneven amount of mana to put a counter on chalice. For example

Trinisphere is out
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ds/154.jpg

and you play Chalice of the void
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mi/150.jpg



for 3 mana does that put a counter on it? i was under the impression that you cant pay uneven mana with chalice since it asks for xx

[mujadaddy]

xx will always be even. It's not that hard to understand.

You will pay at minimum :3:, but then you get to choose whether it gets 0 or 1 counters (ie, x=0 or x=1). If you pay :4:, Trinisphere doesn't trigger, and x=2.

[Mooglar]

Oh you get to choose? what the i didnt know that i thought it sets the number based on how much mana u pay sort of like with EE, well then ok ty

[Taurelin]

The rules about playing spells and activated abilites answer this question.


409.1b ... If the spell or ability has a variable mana cost (indicated by {X}) or some other variable cost, the player announces the value of that variable at this time. ...

So you announce that you want to set Chalice @1, so X=1.

Later:


409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. ...Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs.

So you calculate: X=1, therefore XX=2, therefore the spell costs less than 3 mana, therefore Trinisphere changes the costs to 3. This doesn't, however, change the chosen value of X in any way.

Edit:

This also means that FIRST you choose X and THEN you pay, you can't choose afterwards.

[Mooglar]

ahhh so you announce before actually paying the mana, now i get it thx a bunch guys was alwasy confused at that fact =)

[Sanguine Voyeur]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying "If there's a Trinisphere out and I play Chalice, what happens?"

To play a spell, you pay mana cost + a cost modifiers [affinity, Thorn, ect.] and then, Trinisphere.

If you set X at one for Chalice you will have to pay like this.

2 + 0 = 2, Trinisphere is not out, so you spend two.

Chalice for one with a Sphere of Resistance or Thorn out;

2 + 1[Thorn] = 3

Chalice for one with a Trinisphere out.

2 + 0 = 2 There is a Trinisphere out, you you add colourless mana until the cost equals three.


EDIT: Beaten to the punch, but please, don't post pictures like that.

[quicksilver]

You start by announcing what the value of X would be. Then when you go to pay the mana for it, if the converted man cost is less than 3 then you have to pay 3 for it. This additional cost does not effect what you already determined X to be.

[mujadaddy]

Yeah, the one thing I didn't do is clarify that the effect of 3sphere is AFTER you play the spell, changing the cost. I was speaking conceptually.

[Cait_Sith]

Yeah, the one thing I didn't do is clarify that the effect of 3sphere is AFTER you play the spell, changing the cost. I was speaking conceptually.

No, the effect of Trinisphere is APPLIED (it does not trigger) as part of announcement, which is part of playing the spell. If it applied after you played the spell, it would do nothing as written.

[mujadaddy]

No, the effect of Trinisphere is APPLIED (it does not trigger) as part of announcement, which is part of playing the spell. If it applied after you played the spell, it would do nothing as written.

Iamnotaruleslawyer. :tongue:

[Cait_Sith]

Iamnotaruleslawyer. :tongue:

Since the player is confused already, I doubt that giving cards magical abilities they lack is a good idea.

[mujadaddy]

Well, what I meant is "after you *announce* playing the spell," not "after the spell's playing is completed."

[Cait_Sith]

Costs are paid as part of announcement. Once you are done announcing the spell has been played.

[Mooglar]

ok Cool thx for clarifying, all posts have gotten to confusing >_<, btw is posting pictures bad? i like them and there is a button here for it if its here what is the point of it then ^^

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Pictures of cards clutter the thread with information that is already known, or can easily be looked up.

Unnecessary pictures clutter posts, increase load times, and destroy the flow of the thread.

EDIT: This isn't a rule or an attack of any sort, but an opinion.

[quicksilver]

I liked the pictures.

[mujadaddy]

Costs are paid as part of announcement. Once you are done announcing the spell has been played.
Right, but in linear time, I announce that I'm playing Chalice (at 0 or 1), THEN I note that Trini makes the cost :3: