[Article] Unlocking Legacy – Mixed Bag

[diffy]

Linky (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/15399.html)



But let's get to things at hand: Morningtide! I know I'm not the only one who sophomorically calls this Morningwood. That, in turn, reminds me of the Beavis and Butthead episode where they set out to solve the Mystery of Morningwood. I'm smiling right now as I remember that truly stupid episode. Anyway, earlier this week I put on two albums of The Olivia Tremor Control and dove into StarCityGames.com's sortable Morningtide spoiler, especially great because it shows all the pictures.


Doug Linn takes look at Extendet and how their teks could probably be adapted to Legacy, analyses Morningtide, talks about TEC and the cutback on Premier Events and how this could possibly impact Legacy as well as giving suggestions how to solve this.

Also, I'm officially up to pair with Adan now :laugh: .

[Adan]

Also, I'm officially up to pair with Adan now :laugh: .

Yeah, Hi-Val is a cool guy I think. But the Academy Ruins-Tech is still mine.:cool:

[Nightmare]

There was sufficient amounts of me. I approve, Doug Linn.

[TheCramp]

I was just testing black vial goblins Vs a Ugb Landstill w/ goyfs and 2 multavaults. Multavault sacs to warren weirding for 2 tokens. More or less making waste land better, but warren weirding harder to use. This staved off the Wort as uberabyss situation which tends to lead to defeat. I was impressed by this interaction. The Vaults were in there as extra threat density, but this was an interesting interaction.

I wouldn't write off Multavault. Not yet.

[Hoojo]

I really enjoy these set review articles. I wouldn't mind if each Unlocking Legacy author wrote one; I would read each one.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I really enjoy these set review articles. I wouldn't mind if each Unlocking Legacy author wrote one; I would read each one.

I probably wouldn't, but this Doug Linn's article, although brief, was very enjoyable as always.


Before I jump into the spoiler lists, I had a pretty obvious revelation about Tarmogoyf earlier this week. It was spurred by seeing that SCG has them for $50 and can barely keep them in stock, and other vendors and traders are getting amazing rates on them. In other formats, the big guy will eventually rotate out. In Legacy, he's just... there until something drastically pushes it away or the format becomes too fast for a 4/5 for 1G..

Funny he had to mention that. I also was shocked earlier this week when i saw the prices - the damn thing keeps going up! Can anyone remember a similar case when a stardard-legal card was so freaking expensive?

[mujadaddy]

until ...the format becomes too fast for a 4/5 for 1G
Yikes.

[zulander]

Not bad, I like the idea proposed at the end to help the format grow.

[Bardo]

Funny he had to mention that. I also was shocked earlier this week when i saw the prices - the damn thing keeps going up! Can anyone remember a similar case when a stardard-legal card was so freaking expensive?

Re: Goyf, no. I don't think we've seen any Standard-legal cards at its $$, ever.

I left my comments in the SCG thread for this article, but I'll say them again. This was a fine little article. Good humor, nice flow; a little light on the tech--but otherwise decent. Well done.

[kirdape3]

Keep in mind that it's the heart of Extended season and Goyf's in almost every deck. The prices will not abate at all until the end of March at the very least, when the demand will slow.

[hi-val]

I'm unsure of how high Academy got because I wasn't playing at that time but I do know that they were literally unavailable anywhere. These were the days before lots of internet retail, but I could easily see Academy in PT: Academy fetching that much if there were no fears of banning.

[Bovinious]

And we all know what happened to Academy, it got the Banhammer, as should Goyf IMO.

[Whit3 Ghost]

And we all know what happened to Academy, it got the Banhammer, as should Goyf IMO.
I thought Goyf was overrated?

[hi-val]

Please don't yuck up my thread with goyf banning discussions : (

I'd really like to work on the Heartbeat deck more. It'd probably run STE and Search for Tomorrow. If you had a bunch of mana, some of it green, what would you like to crank it into?

[kirdape3]

Something with Storm, but you're not allowed to cast Mind's Desire in this format.

[Bovinious]

I thought Goyf was overrated?

Something can be overrated and banworthy at the same time...they are not mutually exclusive.

[emidln]

Please don't yuck up my thread with goyf banning discussions : (

I'd really like to work on the Heartbeat deck more. It'd probably run STE and Search for Tomorrow. If you had a bunch of mana, some of it green, what would you like to crank it into?

Well, if you are playing a Mana Flare effect you really want to win before your opponent gets a chance to abuse it too. Now, it's a given that your deck is probably going to be the "best" at using the extra mana, but even mana efficient decks in this format like extra mana. If you're going to win this turn, I think you're going to end up with some sort of storm combo kill. I suppose the other alternative would be if you could make sure your opponents lands don't make the mana (Winter Orb, Geddon effect maybe), but then you'd be defeating your lock pieces with your Mana Flare effect.

If you are going towards Storm is there a convincing reason to go for Heartbeat/Mana Flare engine over a High Tide/Bubbling Muck engine? It seems like if you were looking to slow down mana ramp to like turns 4-6, a Tide/Muck engine would let you play with Merchant Scroll and/or Cunning Wish to find utility and untap effects while providing something to do with tons of mana (card draw and good storm cards).

I suppose if you were looking for something to do with a lot of mana, casting Reiterate on some stuff can create a big advantage or probably make you go infinite with little work. Whether or not it's win more would enter into the equation though.

[TheAardvark]

I'm unsure of how high Academy got because I wasn't playing at that time but I do know that they were literally unavailable anywhere. These were the days before lots of internet retail, but I could easily see Academy in PT: Academy fetching that much if there were no fears of banning.

For the record, $18-20 was the price for Academy, Stroke, and Spiral at their apex, although a friend of mine who went to PT: Rome said they were $30 on-site for the ~5 minutes they were available.

[frogboy]

Price discussions go in another thread. Focus on the article.

[hi-val]

Something the Heartbeat decks did in Standard was to drop it, Time Stop the opponent and then play Black Myojin the next turn so the opponent was completely cleared out of mana. This, obviously, was a format without real Counterspells either. The analog for this would be Time Warping or Time Stopping, but that slows you down even more, as you need six lands and don't actually accomplish much outside of an untap. Another option is running out a Tooth and Nail, but that seems kind of awkward in itself.

[AnwarA101]

Why would you want to use Heartbeat of Spring or Mana Flare in Legacy when you can just use High Tide and have the effect only be symmetrical when your opponent is playing blue instead of every color? You also have to pay more mana for Hearbeat or Mana Flare than for High Tide.

[FoolofaTook]

Mana Flare is a permanent and it does not require you to play blue. those are just two potential reasons I could see that somebody might choose to play Mana Flare over High Tide.

I actually think the format is too fast for the kind of combos that Mana Flare used to be used in but somebody might come up with an idea yet.

Hey! Maybe Mana Flare AND High Tide to get 3 mana out of each of your lands all of a sudden and do something perverse. I wish I could think of something perverse enough to make that playable. :)

[Lukas Preuss]

The thing is, that most spells that untap your own lands are also in blue, which makes them extremely synergetic with High Tide.

Of course there's that green card that untaps all basic lands for 1GG, but if you're only running green (or at least a manabase that is very heavy on basic forests), your draw spells have the tendency to suck.

[Anusien]

Untaps:
Candelabra
Snap
Cloud of Faeries
Reset
Turnabout
Rude Awakening (tech)
Early Harvest

Doug: I hate to break it to you, but none of the good T2 Heartbeat decks did that. Hop on IRC one day and chat with Roxas and I about it. Mostly they cast Heartbeat, cast an untap and blew the opponent out of the water right away. And they could do it through multiple counterspells.

[emidln]

Something the Heartbeat decks did in Standard was to drop it, Time Stop the opponent and then play Black Myojin the next turn so the opponent was completely cleared out of mana. This, obviously, was a format without real Counterspells either. The analog for this would be Time Warping or Time Stopping, but that slows you down even more, as you need six lands and don't actually accomplish much outside of an untap. Another option is running out a Tooth and Nail, but that seems kind of awkward in itself.

While it's not the best Time Walk effect, Orim's Chant exists in our format and has successfully been used in this capacity in the past.

[kirdape3]

Heartbeat just ended up making about thirty mana and then casting Maga, Traitor to Mortals or Invoke the Firemind to kill the opponent very dead.

[aTn]

Nice article, but I was a bit dissapointed that you didn't propose a version of Next Level Blue for Legacy. It's pretty hard not to let such a deck end up looking like a version of Landstill.

[AnwarA101]

Untaps:
Candelabra
Snap
Cloud of Faeries
Reset
Turnabout
Rude Awakening (tech)
Early Harvest


Don't forget Mind Over Matter as its the newest untap effect in Legacy and has been very good in this deck (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7599).

[hi-val]

Untaps:
Candelabra
Snap
Cloud of Faeries
Reset
Turnabout
Rude Awakening (tech)
Early Harvest

Doug: I hate to break it to you, but none of the good T2 Heartbeat decks did that. Hop on IRC one day and chat with Roxas and I about it. Mostly they cast Heartbeat, cast an untap and blew the opponent out of the water right away. And they could do it through multiple counterspells.

I am, I think, thinking about the 2HG heartbeat decks, or possibly the block ones. Though the T2 ones had access to Early Harvest, IIRC, the block ones just landed Black Myojin and rode that. I could be wrong, though.

My problem with dedicating the deck to a combo is drawing bad tutors or redundant combo pieces. If instead of drawing Early Harvest, you drew Decree of Justice or Mindslaver, you'd probably be better off.

[MattH]

Please don't yuck up my thread with goyf banning discussions : (

I'd really like to work on the Heartbeat deck more. It'd probably run STE and Search for Tomorrow. If you had a bunch of mana, some of it green, what would you like to crank it into?

Biorhythm!