Extended Rotation change

[Nightmare]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20080229a

DCI Floor Rule Change Announcement: Extended Rotation

The scheduled October 2008 rotation of the Extended format, as listed in the Magic Floor Rules, has changed. Following the release of the set codenamed "Rock", the following sets will be leaving the Extended format: Invasion, Planeshift, Apocalypse, Odyssey, Torment, Judgment, and Seventh Edition. The rotation previously listed in the floor rules also included Onslaught, Legions™, and Scourge. These three sets are now scheduled to leave Extended in 2009. One years' worth of blocks will leave Extended with every fall Magic release, syncing up Extended rotation with Standard rotation.
For more information about this change and the reasoning behind it, see Devin Low's Latest Developments article for Friday, March 7 on magicthegathering.com.


This actually has a fairly profound effect on Legacy. As Extended will now see cards, and with them decks, rotating out at a pace on par with Standard, there will likely be a lot of overflow from the dissapointed semi-competitive crowd into Legacy, where their deck is guaranteed to be legal. Strangely enough, this is extremely good news for Legacy, even if it's probably not that great for Extended.

In other news, sucks to be the guys who sold their fetchlands.

[freakish777]

In other news, sucks to be the guys who sold their fetchlands.

Also sucks for Legacy players without lots of money hoping to grab Piledrivers and fetches when they were going to rotate out of Extended.

I agree though about it being good for Legacy. It makes sense (to me at least) to have Extended rotate on the same schedule as Standard.

I predict a lot of Rock-esque decks coming to a Legacy tournament near you come October.

[C.P.]

I predict a lot of Rock-esque decks coming to a Legacy tournament near you come October.

And Perhaps Ichorid.

As a Legacy player, I like the Change. As a Extended Player, I think this takes the half of the appeal in the format.

[FoolofaTook]

This smells like WoTC wanting to sell more cards again.

By rotating Extended more quickly they drive up demand for the new sets, which will include a higher percentage of the newly playable cards in Extended than they would have under the old rotation.

I agree that it's going to increase the Legacy player pool a fair amount and that's a really good thing. Realistically Magic does not profit from having a shrinking player base divided into as many subcategories as it currently is.

[zulander]

If I cared about extended I would probably care, but since I don't, I don't. I am happy for legacy though. Now all they need to do is reprint force of will.

[Hoojo]

I agree that many Extended players who are uncomfortable with the new pace will probably whip out their older cards and join the Legacy camp if they want to continue playing at that slower pace. I'm not sure I like this change personally, as Extended was the only Constructed format I kept up with. Now it appears to be as unstable as Standard (as far as rotation goes.)

[scrumdogg]

I agree that many Extended players who are uncomfortable with the new pace will probably whip out their older cards and join the Legacy camp if they want to continue playing at that slower pace. I'm not sure I like this change personally, as Extended was the only Constructed format I kept up with. Now it appears to be as unstable as Standard (as far as rotation goes.)

Good for us & I personally couldn't care less about Extended. However, in terms of stability, Extended will still have a much deeper & more stable pool of cards than Standard.

[Bovinious]

This change was obviously for 3 reasons. It makes more sense for Extended to rotate one set a year anyways, they didnt want affinity to be the only viable deck post rotation so they kept in Gobs/Desire, and 3rd as I suspect, they want fetches in Extended another year so they can reprint them in 11th or some other base set.

[Wallace]

This change was obviously for 3 reasons. It makes more sense for Extended to rotate one set a year anyways, they didn't want affinity to be the only viable deck post rotation so they kept in Gobs/Desire, and 3rd as I suspect, they want fetches in Extended another year so they can reprint them in 11th or some other base set.


As much as I would like to see the Fetch lands reprinted, I think you are more likely to see off color fetch's printed first. There would have been more viable deck in the format, other than Affinity. The format would have shifted to Old type 2. Affinity, TRON, and MUC would have run rampant on the format. Now you will still be able to fetch your Rav. duals and build decks with solid mana bases.

I like the fact that RDW will only lose one card due to the rotation, Grim Lavamancer. I don't know what will be run over him but I'm sure the deck will be fine.

[etrigan]

This actually has a fairly profound effect on Legacy. As Extended will now see cards, and with them decks, rotating out at a pace on par with Standard, there will likely be a lot of overflow from the dissapointed semi-competitive crowd into Legacy, where their deck is guaranteed to be legal. Strangely enough, this is extremely good news for Legacy, even if it's probably not that great for Extended.



How does this affect Legacy any more than the old rotation policy? Extended will become, if anything, more stable, as you longer have the huge outflux of cards every three years. Players will adapt to small changes, but it's the big changes that can disenfrachise people from a format.

[Nightmare]

How does this affect Legacy any more than the old rotation policy? Extended will become, if anything, more stable, as you longer have the huge outflux of cards every three years. Players will adapt to small changes, but it's the big changes that can disenfrachise people from a format.People see the more rapid change as a negative much more than they did the old way. Before, you knew the format was changing, but it wasn't for three years, and you had plenty of time to move cards, etc before the impending rotation. Now, it's basically standard with three more blocks.

[Afro]

From the posts on mtg.com it seems that people are pissed because they wanted to get into extended next season but now have to wait another year because they don't want to invest in fetches. If people don't want to invest in fetches why would they want to invest in the older/better dual lands when they already have the rav ones.

[Nihil Credo]

If it's supposed to rotate a block a year from now on, like Standard, then why do two blocks rotate out this October? Shouldn't it have been Invasion out this year, Odyssey out next year, and so on?

[TheAardvark]

If it's supposed to rotate a block a year from now on, like Standard, then why do two blocks rotate out this October? Shouldn't it have been Invasion out this year, Odyssey out next year, and so on?

The obvious reason is because that both of those blocks were going to rotate out this year regardless, so they just kept that part of it because they want at least part of their policies to remain the same.

I think it also has to do with Dredge, honestly. Sure, it will still be viable post-rotation, but without the good, cheap enablers (Putrid Imp, Breakthrough, Careful Study, and so forth), it won't be the huge bogeyman it is now, GP: Vancouver notwithstanding.

Lastly, I think some of the people involved believe that Onslaught and Lorwyn need more time together in the format, and that Tribal decks aside from Goblins will be good in the post-rotation meta. They won't be, but a lot of the people at WotC are in love with the whole Tribal theme.

[Barook]

As much as I love the idea that fetches being around for another year, this change is stupid. Standard 1.5 is not Extended anymore.

[Bovinious]

As much as I would like to see the Fetch lands reprinted, I think you are more likely to see off color fetch's printed first. There would have been more viable deck in the format, other than Affinity. The format would have shifted to Old type 2. Affinity, TRON, and MUC would have run rampant on the format. Now you will still be able to fetch your Rav. duals and build decks with solid mana bases.

I like the fact that RDW will only lose one card due to the rotation, Grim Lavamancer. I don't know what will be run over him but I'm sure the deck will be fine.

I would like to see enemy fetches as well, and I suppose the reason they kept Onslought in could be because it wouldnt be in as long as it should have been otherwise, but to me it indicates that they may like the fetches so much they want them always in Extended, and cant reprint them til 2009, I could be wrong tho well have to wait and see :wink:

Also, Im pretty sure Affinity would have dominated...I remember the format you speak of, didnt they ban like 9 cards in it?

Also, Desire and Dredge will still be viable combo decks, with Dredge prolly being much weaker but Desire possibly retaining some strength even w/o Invasion lands and Wish.

[mercenarybdu]

I see that they finally saw the problem of taking out three blocks at a time.

Here is the break down...

2002-Extended rotated the first two blocks out of the format
2005-they changed it to three blocks for every 3 years
2008-they rotate two blocks out of the format to keep the chaos level down to a minimum and later added this new floor change rule again to be reasonable for the newer majority player to relate it more to T2 lining it up to be a more massive powerbuyer's format


....pretty much they have done some nice things and some bad things by doing so.

Pro:
-it lines up with T2 rotations making it easier for the newer player to join in on that format

-the format no longer rushes the players to learn a learn a new set of notations as they will be familiar with

-keeps the fomat fresh

Con:
-drives the prices on singles, making it more of a genuine powerbuyer's format

-lines more with T2 except with 5+ years worth of cards


We'lll see what toxic effects it leaves once they are in full bloom following PT Berlin and all of it's GPs that feed before and after that event.

[SilverGreen]

The obvious reason is because that both of those blocks were going to rotate out this year regardless, so they just kept that part of it because they want at least part of their policies to remain the same. There's any obviousness here, it's just something you guess.

I guess the change has no concerns about card availability, and the maintenance of the fetch lands (and the current Manabases of Wonders) for one more year is just an oportune and pleasing consequence of the new arrangement. Instead, I think the major reason behind it can be the establishment of a 7-block-sized Extended. But why exactly 7 blocks, I'll wait for Devin Low's article on Friday to discover.

Legacy and Extended are by far my formats of choice, and I liked the new change a lot. It'll be much easier to adapt to gradual changes than to big format shifts.

[Knuckles29]

if you remeber they kept the old duals around an extra bit when that one rotation happened. It just seems like they want power and diversity and duals (now w/ fetches) seem to encourage that.

Extended is Wizard's baby for power. They almost never support Vintage, leaving SCG and others to do that. Legacy offical is a joke.. what do we get.. Flash.. that joke of less than 5 big tournaments a year.. almost no coverage by the offical site..

I don't know if this change to extended will do anything except keep prices of featchlands high, I was hoping they would come down a little and I could get a 2nd playset from the non-legacy players.

The only real advantage we might get is the Wishes will come down a bit.. if anyone likes casual, Living should hit rock bottom soon.

Atleast Orim's Chant will take a $ dive too. I'm gonna try personally to get some Invasion block stuff for cheap come oct/nov

[Arsenal]

Yeah, I am looking forward to snagging some Invasion and Odyssey block stuff for cheap. $20 per Orim's Chant right now is ludicrous.

[Land]

Con:
-drives the prices on singles, making it more of a genuine powerbuyer's format


Magic since the early days has been a money game, with the top placement in tournaments usually given to players with skill AND cards. I remember revised is about the time around here that people really started to realize that these cards were of monetary value. If you are looking for a game you don't have to sink so much money into, maybe try out Guild Wars or Chess.

[Afro]

Yeah, I am looking forward to snagging some Invasion and Odyssey block stuff for cheap. $20 per Orim's Chant right now is ludicrous.

Too bad this card is valued highly in the casual market and won't drop much more than $3-5. The same could be said for the Wishes, Vindicate, etc.

[Bardo]

Too bad this card is valued highly in the casual market and won't drop much more than $3-5. The same could be said for the Wishes, Vindicate, etc.

I absolutely agree. Competitive Extended players create market pressure for certain cards, but powerful cards that have a strong casual appeal (e.g. the Judgement Wishes, Perncious Deed, fetchlands, etc.) will keep these cards from reaching "bargain basement" levels of $$. I don't predict they'll drop all that much--and if they do, it certianly won't be overnight.

[Arsenal]

Too bad this card is valued highly in the casual market and won't drop much more than $3-5. The same could be said for the Wishes, Vindicate, etc.

Even if it dropped $5 per card, I'd be happy. I'm not expecting it to go from $20 to $5 or anything. An extra $20 to use on other cards is pretty good by just waiting another few months.

[mercenarybdu]

if you remeber they kept the old duals around an extra bit when that one rotation happened. It just seems like they want power and diversity and duals (now w/ fetches) seem to encourage that.

Extended is Wizard's baby for power. They almost never support Vintage, leaving SCG and others to do that. Legacy offical is a joke.. what do we get.. Flash.. that joke of less than 5 big tournaments a year.. almost no coverage by the offical site..

I don't know if this change to extended will do anything except keep prices of featchlands high, I was hoping they would come down a little and I could get a 2nd playset from the non-legacy players.

The only real advantage we might get is the Wishes will come down a bit.. if anyone likes casual, Living should hit rock bottom soon.

Atleast Orim's Chant will take a $ dive too. I'm gonna try personally to get some Invasion block stuff for cheap come oct/nov

It'll all change once my video blog is up to speed. I've just launched it earlier today but I will assure all of you that it'll be better once I collect the first round of feedback.

Come to think of it the last time I was on the wizard forums, all of the PTQ and Extended Players were ranting and raving about how "fetchlands have defined their fomrat" which kinda got wizards to make that move to change how content conduct was made for that format since they had kept the original duals in the format until 2002.

So in response to that, they without making anymore exceptions to specific cards, they made the move to enact a system that lined more up with T2. So instead of waiting three years to funnel 3 of the oldest blocks out of the format with the oldest core set they changed it to lining it up with T2.

Then to start this, they funneled the Tog Years out of the format and left the Onslaught Block alone for another year as there wouldn't be many cards left in the original frames to play with other tan Core set cards and timeshifted cards.

So i assume that wizards made this to signal that enemy fetchlands are coming real soon. In past Extended formats, they got to play with all of the original duals before 2002, then all the painlands, and finally all of the ravnica duals. But when i came to fetchlands they were only able to play with half of them as the enemy portion wasn't released to the general public yet.

Will we see any enemy fetchlands in the following months or will they come at the time when those constructed fools get to play with all of the fetchlands for three months?

Think about it.

[Watcher487]

Will we see any enemy fetchlands in the following months or will they come at the time when those constructed fools get to play with all of the fetchlands for three months?

Think about it.

Actually this sets up wizards for the chance to reprint the fetches in 11th ed (since this rotation is more or less based on the basic sets) like what has been predicted on and off from several of the players. This also give wizards the chance to print Rav duals in 12th ed. To basically keep all of the extended player quiet when that rotation happens.

[Pinder]

That actually raises an interesting point. Do you think Wizards will ever print enemy colored fetches?

[Bryant Cook]

Extended is what makes TES not a budget deck anymore :-( . As for the format, I think what they did was a good idea, and healthy for the format.

[Mental]

They'll never reprint Fetches. I think everyone at Wizards knows that right now Extended is a really fucked up format due to the overabundance of duals and a lack of Wastelands. They don't want to compound the problem by having to live with it another 6 years. Seriously, 5 color zoo is not a deck that should exist.

[Koby]

Throwing chaos into the format like this helps players to start creating new decks to anticipate the new metagame. These will eventually spill over into Legacy and create more demand for playing older formats.

I am all for this new rotation policy.

[Barook]

They'll never reprint Fetches. I think everyone at Wizards knows that right now Extended is a really fucked up format due to the overabundance of duals and a lack of Wastelands.
If that is really the case, then where are the Wastelands? It's not like Duals/Fetches and Tron are something new in the current extended and the best non-basic hate the format has are Moon-Effects? :confused:

The point is that they print so much Duals with each expansion so they can milk the Standard players for more money. For the same reason, we haven't seen any brutal non-basic hoser (Moon-Effects are not that good without tons of accel) since forever.

However, since Wizards seems to whore every possible Penny out of Magic at the moment, it isn't that far-fetched for them to reprint Fetchlands in 11th - it would be a gurantee that it will sell like sliced bread.

[Dilettante]

Extended is what makes TES not a budget deck anymore :-( . As for the format, I think what they did was a good idea, and healthy for the format.

Well, it isn't about to drop any time soon... If Mox Diamond is any indicator, Chrome Mox is not about to drop in price, especially since it is currently used more in Legacy, perhaps currently the most-used of all... Burning Wish and Orim's Chant are not going to taper off much, though they did double in price. The biggest price hike actually came from LED. When I was buying pieces for IGGy Pop a year ago or so, they were a mere $5... and now about triple that. Granted, I just picked another one up from the local store for $8 from their case.

When you think about it, TES is still relatively budget. The format as a whole has shifted in price fundamentally, as certain cards are more cemented as staples. Blue duals have shot up a good measure. If you expect to build a deck like say... UGb Thresh, a typical decklist would cost you around... $600-650. Fetches are still lofted high, but they are only going to see the slightest dip due to anticipatory demand when the format shifts. Due to the amount of time spent to utilize the card and 'test' it, Magic players are getting smarter about what staples they need to keep. Extended swap-outs are not going to affect the market like those of Standard. However, there are still 'bargain' decks to be had until the demand shoots up. We are now seeing Chalice of the Void shoot up from $3 at one point... Ichorid at the moment is in that formulative state. The staples are currently still relatively inexpensive until the market saturates. Get them while you can... We are finally past the days of Combo Summer in terms of Extended shifts, so much less in terms of powerful cards getting the B/R stick causing them to lose value to a Legacy player.

[SilverGreen]

They'll never reprint Fetches. I think everyone at Wizards knows that right now Extended is a really fucked up format due to the overabundance of duals and a lack of Wastelands. They don't want to compound the problem by having to live with it another 6 years. Seriously, 5 color zoo is not a deck that should exist.
WTF?? The format was never so diverse, healthy and celebrated than it is nowadays, Wizards' columnists themselves told it a bunch of times. The Onslaught/Ravnica manabases are notoriously good for a number of reasons, I really can't see your point here.

[mercenarybdu]

Don't be too sure that they won't reprint Fetchlands as it is a possibility.

They stopped printing original Duals since 1995, and following into 1997 they put in allied painlands. Then in 2001, they printed enemy painlands to quit all the whining. Then these lands come along with all of us needing all of them to make the ten card cycle complete.

As they have withheld them for nearly a decade, it should be worth the wait for all formats.

[Wallace]

I think a lot of the reprint/off color fetch debate depends on whether or not Th and Th ed. will be black bordered or not. I believe with the success of 10 they will be. I don't know if they would re-print the fetch's and while it would be nice to have enemy fetch's I think it's unlikely we will get those either. You may see a "pay 2 life and fetch" version or some other "weaker" versing though.

[mercenarybdu]

I think a lot of the reprint/off color fetch debate depends on whether or not Th and Th ed. will be black bordered or not. I believe with the success of 10 they will be. I don't know if they would re-print the fetch's and while it would be nice to have enemy fetch's I think it's unlikely we will get those either. You may see a "pay 2 life and fetch" version or some other "weaker" versing though.

I know that they might not make it like that as it would just puck off the entire community as they don't want to lose money on something that they thought would sell which didn't.

So they have to follow through with it or they'll get the old arguement from the tempest era about the enemy painlands before they fixed them.

[Thehunter820]

Eh, some good things some bad, I dont personally play extended, so it doesnt exactly affect me, however the new amount of players will be good to see.