Acceptable Shortcuts

[AKFox]

I saw this in another thread from a few months ago. I didn't want to necro it so I'll just bring it up here:


From Starcitygames:

Q: My opponent cycles Justice ">Decree of Justice and taps the extra mana he is planning on using for the triggered ability. If I Stifle the ability, he would have that mana still floating in his pool, correct? So the correct way would to just pay for the cycle, and then tap the mana when the ability resolves.

A: While it's technically correct that you don't pay the mana until the triggered ability resolves, "I'll cycle the Decree for X" is an acceptable shortcut. If your opponent plays it that way and then you Stifle, I'd have him untap the extra lands, not take mana burn, because he's paid a cost that he couldn't legally pay. I'd also warn him on how to play it correctly.

My question is: what constitutes an acceptable shortcut? At what level? Is there a formal definition or is it a judges discretion?

If my opponent was at </= 5 life (in this situation) it would certainly have an impact on the game. I wouldn't enforce something like this at like an FNM but anywhere else I pretty much expect my opponent to know the timing rules and if he wants to walk into a stifle it's not my problem and I certainly wouldn't let him untap his lands.

[Metaknight]

I'm not 100% on the ruling, but i would assume it's at judges discretion, but i would agree with you that in a tournament setting, it is the players responsibility to know when things like a triggered effect for cycle (or really anything for that matter) actually triggers and then are able to play it.

[cdr]

Common shortcuts are defined in the Penalty Guidelines, section 51. Also take a look at the player communication guidelines in the section before that.

Shortcuts other than the common ones listed in the PG are not valid unless both players agree on it.

A judge isn't going to allow you to gain an advantage due to miscommunication - generally, you will go back to where the shortcut happened.

Your opponent isn't "walking into a Stifle", he's either assuming you're not playing anything before the trigger resolves or doesn't know the the cost is paid on resolution of the trigger. Either way, it's the responsiblility of the player who wants to respond to indicate such.

[bladewing019]

Your opponent isn't "walking into a Stifle", he's either assuming you're not playing anything before the trigger resolves or doesn't know the the cost is paid on resolution of the trigger. Either way, it's the responsiblility of the player who wants to respond to indicate such.

Would this be true at all RELs? It seems like at the higher ones that your opponent should know that you can respond to it, and that they should know when to pay for their cards. If they tap the mana then you Stifle at a high REL it seems like they should have to leave the mana in their pool.

[cdr]

No.

The player was not floating mana; it was either a mistake of communication or of not knowing when to pay the mana. In no REL, in no reasonable case, would the player be forced to leave mana floating. It has been handled this way since 2003.

The trigger being responded to is the unusual case - so if you're the one responding to it, it's your responsibility to say so when the Decree is cycled (and have your opponent untap his lands if he tried to pay X, or call a judge).