[Deck] The Servant's Stone [Archive] - Page 2

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Funlicker

05-23-2008, 01:55 AM

I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning, or if anyone has thought of this before, but Seedtime with a Painter's Servant in play lets you Timewalk if your opponent successfully casts any spell during your turn. I just think it's kind of neat, but probably no better than one mana vindicates/counterspells.

ssilver

05-23-2008, 02:35 AM

Yah, that elf deck is awesome, I heard 61 cards is tech... don't see why he chose to run the extra 1-of though. @ funlicker: Yah, its not that great, but its always fun to hear about more useful stuff. Personally I am working ATM with a U/R version of Servants stone that utilizes secret tech. After a little bit more testing I might be willing to offer up my deck idea to the general public for consideration.:tongue:

Versus

05-30-2008, 02:47 PM

I dunno, I almost just clicked back instead of posting, but I didn't see this mentioned in anyone's deck list or SB so I thought I'd just blurt it out.

Mind Harness seems really good with Servant, no? It shouldn't often be dead without a Servant in play either. There's plenty of Goys and big red things running around anyway...

KrzyMoose

05-30-2008, 04:51 PM

Mind Harness is sort of okay. It has been used before, but is really never spectacular. Threads of Disloyalty is usually better.

I've been testing various builds of this combo for a few weeks, and I've found that it is strongest in a Threshold shell.

18 Land

4 Dark Confidant
4 Painter's Servant

4 Grindstone
4 Enlightened Tutor

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Thoughtseize
3 Counterbalance

It's been fairly impressive for me, though I'm not sure if it is actually better than, say, just playing Threshold. I'm currently testing Tarmogoyf in place of the Tutor.

I'm not too keen on running Blasts in the maindeck. Counterbalance just seems better.

milkman1187

05-31-2008, 02:47 PM

I've just started to mess around with painters servant in legacy and I've come up with a couple of prospective lists that I think have some potential.
They started out as two very different ideas but ended up becoming quite similar.
Here is the first list, it looks to abuse REBs with servant, it is very good in a heavy blue meta but seems lackluster in metas with a lot of red or black:

18 lands
1 academy ruins
1 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
2 bloodstained mire
3 volcanic island
2 underground sea
1 badlands
2 island
1 mountain
1 swamp

11 creatures
4 painter's servant
3 trinket mage
4 dark confidant

31 spells
2 red elemental blast
3 pyroblast
2 thoughtseize
2 fire/ice
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
3 daze
3 counterbalance
1 sensei's divining top
1 engineered explosives
1 tormod's crypt
1 grindstone

15 sideboard
1 red elemental blast
1 engineered explosives
3 tormod's crypt
2 thoughtseize
2 pithing needle
2 extirpate
4 hydroblast

The black splash is actually untested in this deck. I was testing a blue/red list however and I found I ran out of cards quite quickly so I wanted to add dark confidant.
I also wouldn't recommend a list like this in a meta without much blue, I was having a big problem with goblins with the U/R list (which ran 6 MD blasts) and another thoughtseize might be better than the fifth blast.
The numbers are definately not finalized and I'm not at all happy with the sideboard and the manabase, however the manabase can be easily fixed with testing and the sideboard is very meta dependent. I have a lot of wasteland in my meta so I wanted a basic of each type and 2 islands as well as at least 7 fetches to find them.

With the second list I wanted to try and explore merchant scroll. Heres what I came up with:

17 lands
2 tundra
3 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
1 academy ruins
1 swamp
1 plains
2 island

8 creatures
4 dark confidant
4 painters servant

35 spells
3 thoughtseize
2 enlightened tutor
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
1 echoing truth
3 merchant scroll
3 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
4 swords to plowshares
2 grindstone
1 reconstruction
1 gifts ungiven

15 sideboard
1 thoughtseize
1 echoing truth
2 extirpate
3 engineered plague
4 leyline of the void
4 meddling mage

As with the first one I'm not happy with the sideboard yet. In the main I would be happier with another land and daze (it just seems so good in this deck) and to be honest I might be better of cutting the merchant scrolls and the gifts finish for them and more enlightened tutors or something, but I wanted to test merchant scroll because I think it has potential. The gifts ungiven was a last minute addition. You can fetch it with merchant scroll and a pile of enlighted tutor, reconstruction, painters servant and grindstone gets you the combo, although admittedly it is a lot of mana. I think it's definately worth testing though and it seems better than the first list in a meta devoid of much blue. Also please remember these lists are far from finished and I just posted them to get some feedback and generate discussion, hopefully I can do just that. :)

edit: just realized argivian find is much better than reconstruction. You can tutor it with MS when painters servant is out.

holkenborg

06-02-2008, 04:15 AM

I shall not put my entire list here, but I'll just say I play Phyrexian Dreadnoughts (2) and 6 Stifle (of which 2 are Trickbinds).

The card I also play and I would like to discuss about, is Shelldock Isle. To me this seems a usable card which will hide away a Stifle / Trickbind / Tormod's crypt you can use when your opponent has a Gaea's Blessing in his graveyard. I know you can just as easily hold back a Stifle in your hand, but the hide away ability makes you dig four cards deep for the card. You can also use Brainstorm on this.

Is this a potential good idea or is the 'comes tapped into play'-ability too bad for this combo deck?

O yeah, I forgot to mention the Counterbalance. I liked the idea of this card in this combo-deck, but the problem is I (in my list, Urw-build) only play spells with CMC 1 and only about 8 cards with CMC 2. The rest is land. I don't think Counterbalance is good enough in such a deck.

Versus

06-02-2008, 08:05 AM

Well, if you play CB, you'll have 4 more cards with 2cc. ;)

I would think the Trinket Mage versions would fair better here though. Still, I put a Urw version together the other day which includes Mages and after a Top spin, Fetch, spin, I still was only able to come up with lands and 1cc spells. Sure, that happens, but I can see it happening here more often.

I've also never played CounterTop in any deck ever, so I may be just be bad at it...

Versus

06-03-2008, 11:11 PM

I guess I killed this thread, huh? Anyway, just for kicks I tried this out. I saw on another forum that someone was using Imperial Recruiters in a Mono-red Painter's build and decided to try it, but in a U/R shell. I figured Recruiters can get Painters and Mages and Mages can get Stones, so there may be something to it.

2 Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Trinket Mage
4 Painter's Servant

4 Muldriffter
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Grindstone
2 Top

4 FoW
4 Pyroblast
2 REB

4 Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Strand
1 Delta
1 Mire
3 Volcs

YES, the mana base is irresponsible!

I goldfished about 10 games or so and kept a record of my results. Granted, 10 times isn't much, so I'm gonna go ahead and guess that luck played a part in some of this...

Game 1:

Imp
Delta
Pryro x 2
Tomb
Volcanic Island
Brainstorm

Turn 1: Volcanic Island > EOT Brainstorm (City/City/Mox)
Turn 2: *draw City* Play Tomb>Imperial Recruiter (getting Servant)
Turn 3: *draw Mox* Play City> Painter's Servant
Turn 4: *draw Imp. Rec.* > Imprint a Pyroblast on Mox > Play Recruiter to get Mage > Play Mage to get Grindstone.
Turn 5: Play GS>Activate

Game 2:

Servant
Strand
Brainstorm
REB
Recruiter
Mulldrifter
Ponder

1: Play Strand > EOT Fetch Volc> Brainstorm (Tomb/City/BS) put Ponder and Mulldrifter on top.
2: *draw Muldrifter* Play Tomb > Imperial Recruiter getting Mage
3: *FoW* Play City > Mage getting Grindstone
4: Cast MS > Activate

Game 3:

Delta
Stone
2 X Mox
Tomb
Traitors
Mulldrifter

1: Delta> fetch Volc > play Stone
2: *Top* Tomb> Top use floating colorless to spin top (Mull/City/Recruiter)
3: *Recruiter* Play City> Recruiter getting Servant > Play Servant
4: Activate

Game 4

Servant
Stone
FoW
Mox
Ponder
City
Tomb

1: Tomb > imprint Ponder on Mox > Play Servant > Play Stone
2: Activate

Game 5: Almost identical to game 4. Turn 2 win.

Game 6: Mulled to 6. Turn six win.

Game 7: I just scooped it up after turn 8. I would have been Goyf'd long before going off.

Game 8: turn 4 win

Game 9: Turn 6

Game 10: Turn 3

Of course that was without any disruption. Many games I didn't have any FoW/Blast backup either. Also, that's my decisions on how to go about each turn. Maybe some of them could have been played out better.

I dunno if it has potential. I'm sure someone here could make this work much better than I. I also tried a Uwr and a Ubr version also . While having more stability using the E. Tutor toolbox and black giving me Bob, they weren't as fast. They did however provide much more back up and control elements especially in the builds that I included Counterbalance.

BoomChild

06-04-2008, 04:58 AM

I played this archetype to a 4-0 finish at the last event I went to...

Creatures:

4x Painter's Servant
4x Dark Confidant
3x Trinket Mage

Spells:

4x Force of Will
4x Aether Vial
4x REB
4x Pyroblast
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
1x Grindstone
1x EE
1x Crypt
1x Needle

Land:

4x Strand
2x Delta
1x Mire
2x U.Sea
3x Volc Island
1x Academy Ruins
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Island
2x Mountain
1x Swamp

I found through the 4 matches that I played that the archetype plays very similarly to any normal fish deck. Use the vial obviously to conserve mana for your controling spells and finding what you need. The blasts can be used offensively as vindicates when you name Blue and if you need to they counter very well. This could be explored deeper and expanded.....

This deck is for realz.....

Changed it up again and took it back to College of Dupage for another 1st place finish... Current maindeck:

4x Painter's Servant
4x Dark Confidant
3x Trinket Mage

4x Force of Will
4x Ponder
3x Brainstorm
3x Aether Vial
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyroblast
3x Intuition
4x Accumulated Knowledge
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Pithing Needle
1x Grindstone

3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Academy Ruins
2x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Swamp
1x Island
1x Mountain

SB: Always in Flux

Matchups.... 20 People, 4 Rounds of Swiss

Round 1: Kevin w/ Tyrrant Blue

Game 1 goes long as we are both subscribing to control decks but it gets a lil awkward when we realize we are both playing AK's.... How fun... We go deep for a while playing draw go, until Kevin goes for Show and Tell and ends up tapped out by reasons I can not remember at this point. I take advantage and Intuition for 3 AK's with enough already in yards to Draw 7 EoT. I drop painter and am up too far in cards to come back.

Game 2 is much quicker than game 1 as I have more Red counters post board and I am able to deck him with the stone combo fairly early in the game.

Kevin's always fun to play against and is always tight on his play. Good Games Kev!

1-0 2-0

Round 2: Szymon w/ Ravager

Szymon is my barn for Legacy events. I drive him to CoD so he can trade and play and we take this round to have fun but I end up teaching him some of the subtle lessons of Legacy. He has me effectively beat in both games but makes slight play mistakes that allow me to Pyroclasm away 3 creatures including an Atog after resolving Pithing Needle on Atog... and not puting me on a quick enough clock game 1 where I effectively punted a game away by not pushing vial to 3 for an unknown trinket mage topdeck... Thus is magic and I'm sure once Szymon starts to play real Legacy decks... he'll be fine.

2-0 4-0

Round 3: Brad w/ Dreadnaught Fish (4c+)

Game 1: I am lured into stopping a trinket mage from resolving and he is able to stick a Dreadnaught with the last 3 cards in his hand I believe. He beats me down, but I try to buy some time to get a combo off and am unable to... 12/12's are hard to stop I guess...

Game 2: On turn 3 I make a complete ass of myself and miscount the number of cards he has draw/played the game and ask a judge to count it up for me. (I counted 15 but there was only 14... sorry Brad) That takes a few minutes but we are back at it shortly after. I am able to win this one on the misfortune of Brad seeming to not draw anything relevant except for 3 Forces, which were mostly Blasted away. I get up in cards and he scoops when I can combo him.

Game 3: We have about 7 minutes left because of the length of game 1 and me trying to come back and we start with about 5 left on the clock. The turns go by fairly smoothly with no major action other than a lot of digging for Brad and me sitting on Counters Blockers. I'm not worried about a draw and we end up not finishing and take the UID.

2-0-1 5-1-1

Round 4: Hans w/ Agro Loam

Hans is the sole undefeated at this point sitting at 3-0. He asks if I'll scoop but I decline. The matchup is very good and I can't win any prize at 2-1-1 so we begin.

Game 1: Hans leads out with Dual, Diamond, Diamond, Loam Pass... I wish I could start on turn 3. I take my draw and get my miser's Crypt off the top. How lucky. I play land and nuke his loam out of the yard Ponder and grab a Force and pass back. I believe it was land go, and we went back and forth for a few turns until he hit double gamble to get his engine back on-line. I was able to find a Ruins and got back my crypt for another run at the yard but now Hans had Assault active. The exact details get blurry at this point but the game ended with Hans getting decked because he didn't have any creatures left in his deck to recur to Volrath's Stronghold and I needled Assault with no Wish left either. Rough beats...

Game 2: I bring in the sexy anti-yard package of 4 Planar Void + 3 Extirpate for the Intuition + AK's and we start it off. I get durressed on a mulligan snatching a Void, but I have a second. I ponder on turn 1, finidng my basic swamp and play turn 2 Void which is responded to by double Cycle. Void sticks for a bit until hans finds Wish for Hull breach, then I hit a Painter's turning the world Blue the next turn... Shortly after that I am able to counter the relevent spells and stone Hans to death. Very close competitive games played on both sides.

3-0-1 7-1-1

1st Place - 14 packs...

Brad from round 3 won his last round and took home 2nd place due to some odd end round tiebrakers. This deck is for real right now until an answer is found. The last two trips to CoD has been a 7-0-1 trip and the list is incredibly fun to play and pilot.

I caution those who don't understand a true agro-control deck to take my numbers with a grain of salt. I have built the deck to function much like a fish deck would and not like a combo deck. Small disruptive pieces build up to the quick combo finish when the time is right. There was only 2 times the entire tourny that I actually Tutored up the Stone to finish the match. Most of the wins were due to beats from the Factories, Bob's, and Trinkets.

I will be investigating the usefulness of the Intuition/AK engine in the coming weeks but for this tourny it was gassy all over the place. The intuitions obviously act as a specific tutor if you are looking for that one card you need, and when you don't need one card, just get the AK's and draw 3/4. This is one Intuition stack that I didn't have to use but was prepared to just in case I couldn't find a trinket mage... Ruins/Ruins/Grindstone.... It's just fun I swear...

Boomer

blacklotus3636

06-05-2008, 02:06 AM

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet but has anyone considered transmute artifact?
Making a list with moxen for accel and tops with counterbalance would give you plenty of artifacts to transmute. It would be better than trinketmage because it would put it into play rather than in your hand and might be a bit faster. Goblin welder + any deck with a sizeable amount of artifacts is good.

BoomChild

06-05-2008, 03:21 AM

Transmute Artifact could potentially find a home in the deck. The only issue that I see with putting it into my build is that I am very artifact light and it would require a complete rebuild of the deck. If anyone else is willing to test it out that would be amazing and post results here.

holkenborg

06-05-2008, 04:43 AM

I don't really like Transmute Artifact. If you want to play in such a way, play Welder.

Anyway, on a Dutch forum we were discussing about red/white splash and I got convinced of the inclusion of Orim's Chant. Against aggro it's a (weaker) Time Walk, against combo it could win games and against control it makes you go off safe (play it in your upkeep).

With Orim's Chant mainbord, you should play UW I think with 4 Enlightened Tutors and 4 Orim's Chant. The only problem will be Chalice of the Void on 1. Then you are doomed :)

What are your thoughts about this idea?

Versus

06-05-2008, 06:49 AM

You could always Trinket for EE and set it on 0 to blow up any Chalices.

I've tried almost every color combination of this deck in the past week or so. There's just so many options. I really like the excel of the "Stompy" mana bases, but I can't deny the W splash for E.Tutor and the toolbox 1 of's you can run MD and SB with her.

My latest venture is a UB controlish version with Bob, Shackes, lots of permission, and two alternate wincons. One being Stifle-Naught and the other a single copy of Oona.

holkenborg

06-07-2008, 12:49 AM

In a UW deck with Enlightened Tutors, what would you run: 4 Trinket Mage of 4 Fabricate? I'm now playing the mages, but I suppose the Fabricates would be better, because you can search for the painter..

moOnsteak

06-07-2008, 06:51 AM

Jaynel

06-07-2008, 11:35 AM

The reason Painter is always linked with REB / Pyroblast in vintage is because a lot of crazy blue spell up there. But in Legacy, though Threshold Counter Balance always stay on top, but I suggest this deck 'd still fit if those spells replaced by their cousins (BEB / Hydroblast) and then Painter will choose :r: as they come to play.
1st thing, they are blue cards, can be pitched for FoW.
2nd, You only need to run 2 colors :u: and :b:, not 3. .
3rd, it'll be easier to blast Burn, Goblins, Dragon Stompy, mana acceleration from Belcher, or almighty crusher in Aggro Loam.

Thought?
1. You should be running more than enough blue cards for Force of Will. I run 8 blue cantrips, along with Force, Daze and Counterbalance.

2. For my list, 3 colors is very hot because I run Engineered Explosives. My manabase isn't stressed; I'm able to run a comfortable 3 basics.

3. My list runs Counterbalance, Daze, and maindeck Engineered Explosives. Burn isn't a problem with an active CB. Daze and Force of Will can handle explosive Belcher starts, and EE can take out any tokens. The only real threat Dragon Stompy poses is Chalice at 2, which is again conveniently removed by Engineered Explosives.

So against those decks, BEBs seem like overkill. Goblins can be raced game 1 if you can stop Lackey/Vial. Red brings Pyroclasm from the board, which is huge against Goblins/Zoo, which are decks I find that Painter Combo has trouble with.

Against decks packing counters, REBs are amazing at punching combo pieces through the counterwall. Taking out Counterbalance (usually while it's on the stack, hitting it after it lands is usually done by EE) for R is so clutch. They're decent against Storm combo, hitting cantrips (TES) or stopping Mystical Tutor -> Orim's Chant (FT).

Those are my thoughts. It seems Painter set on U is just better for you because of Force and the third color helps out a lot.

Versus

06-07-2008, 05:45 PM

Jaynel

06-08-2008, 08:59 AM

Jaynel, is your third color still black? I've been back and forth between w and b again and again. On the one hand I love Bob. Besides the obvious reasons he's the perfect target to draw their early removal from PS. I'm also digging the white toolbox, but I find I usually don't need to Tutor up the pieces to win. I just find them with Confidant/cantrips. For that matter, there have been situations where I didn't even need both pieces of the combo to win. I played a game last night where I was able to lock them under CB and beat them down with a lowly Confidant.

And I agree, MD EE is pretty awesome.

I'm still running black, mainly because Dark Confidant is the absolute nuts. He draws removal and, if he sticks around, flips nothing but 0, 1, and 2 cc spells. Like you said, I find cantrips and SDT with 8+ shuffle effects are enough to dig for both pieces of the combo.

holkenborg

06-08-2008, 02:55 PM

What cards to put in your sideboard against aggro and aggro-control decks?

Skullclamping

06-09-2008, 02:57 PM

How many copies of Grindstone have you found is good to have? I've been trying with 2 lately, but I'm thinking of putting the third

Versus

06-09-2008, 03:10 PM

I'm still running black, mainly because Dark Confidant is the absolute nuts. He draws removal and, if he sticks around, flips nothing but 0, 1, and 2 cc spells. Like you said, I find cantrips and SDT with 8+ shuffle effects are enough to dig for both pieces of the combo.

Yeah, Confidant really shines here. I've actually dropped red for a little while. While I completely agree with you on reasons why REB and Pryroblast are great, I've been finding that straight U control is working also. I basically replaced my blasts with Counterspells and just running it Ub. I may go back to three colors though.

holkenborg: Pyroclasm is good board sweeper as well as EE on 2 (in most cases) against aggro. If you running the black splash, Engineered Plague for Goblins or BEB/Hydroblast. Propoganda could be good as well.

Skullclamping: I'm only running two, but I'm also running Trinket Mages. It's really the only "bad" card in the deck so I tried to keep it at a minimum. I'd say it depends on your amount of Tutor effects and also how you want to win. If you'r main goal is to get the two pieces on the table ASAP and activate, then full playsets of both I'd say. If you plan on slow rolling it in a control shell, then you have the time and the resources to find the pieces later in the game.

Windux

06-12-2008, 04:14 AM

That's how I would play the deck:

4 Painter's Servant
4 Dark Confidant
3 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Aether Vial
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosive
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grindstone
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island

SB:
2 Engineered Explosive
1 Pithing Needle
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Pyroclasm
3 Extirpate
3 Echoing Truth

Intuition is imo too slow.
- You need a turn to cast Intuition (if you cast it EoT of your opponent, you can't cast anything before.).
- Daze mostly means you can cast Intuition just Turn 4.
- If you search for AK's or Painters and your opponent counters your searched cards, you will have much worse chances to win.
(And the most player's will counter your searched spell, if they know that you don't play Loam)
- You need to pay mana for the searched Spell as well = 2 Turns for 1 tutored card (mostly 5 Mana at all).

I even think about cutting Aether Vials for Thoughtseize.
Thoughtseize is just so strong. And if you play Thoughtseize and Stifles you mostly don't want to drop a first turn Vial because Thoughtseize or a stifled Fetchland is that much better than the Vial.
Without Intuition you are also able to cast Creatures AND Solutions/Disruption.

This deck would be played a lot more controlish.
You try to disrupt your opponent (Stifle, Wasteland will help alot) and THEN if you have a window open, cast your Spells to gain advantage.
To disrupt your opponent is much better in the early game, then to gain advantage and let your opponent gain advantage as well.

The only creature which I would cast early is the Painter...and only if I have some Blasts in my hand to cover him and to have more 1cc Hardcounter.

EDIT: 1 Dreadnought for the Mage would shine here. So you have 1 Crypt, 1 Grindstone and 1 Dreadnought which are not always good.
Crypt is useful most of the times, Dreadnought just with Stifle and Needle...it's just a nuts card which is mostly useful ;)

klaus

06-12-2008, 04:50 AM

So I top 8ed at a 26 people event with the following list:

4 Servant
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant
4 REB effects
3 Counterbalance
1 Grind Stone
2 P. Dreadnought
1 Sensei's D. Top
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Terminate
1 Vedalken Shackles
(39)

7 Blue Fetchies
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Academy Ruins
(21)

SB
1 T. Crypt
1 REB
1 EE
1 Needle
1 Gaea's Blessing
3 Extirpate
3 Pyroclasm
4 ?

"I really dig running a deck full of non-random must-counter-cards :laugh:

The deck is strong, no doubt - but obv. weaker in a meta with few blue decks. I ended up losing 2 games due to mull mistakes against aggro loam and affinity.
-
Thoughts on the MD?

Versus

06-12-2008, 07:04 AM

klaus, that's almost identical to my list give or take a Shackles here and a Top there. Also, like I said, I'm using straight counterspells and bypassing the REB's for now.

How are the Wastelands treating you though? I'd think running more basics and another fetch would be better, no?

holkenborg

06-12-2008, 07:08 AM

What were your matchups?

And for the open sidebord slots, I'm going to try Divert for it increases your matchup against the harder opponents with hand disruption (black).

Mordenkaynen

06-12-2008, 02:33 PM

freakish777

06-12-2008, 02:41 PM

Let me ask about Jaya Ballard, Task Mage. It's strange for me that she wasn't even mentioned in the thread (the search didn't show it to me). I can admit that she's not good for the deck because she's slow, but it has to be argumented.
So can you guys explain?

You've already explained yourself...

She's slow. She requires you to untap with her in play. She doesn't win the game. In order to get a single Vindicate out of her she requires 3 cards, 2 turns and :3::r::r::r:

She isn't even worth mentioning because we all know how bad she is in non-Limited competitive play (yes, if you open her at a Time Spiral Draft you first picked her, no she isn't competitive in any Constructed or Eternal Format). So why bother?

Bryant Cook

06-12-2008, 03:24 PM

I have to say, this thread is getting closer and closer to EPIC's list that we developed 2 months ago.

Nihil Credo

06-12-2008, 04:40 PM

I have to say, this thread is getting closer and closer to EPIC's list that we developed 2 months ago.
Great. Have a cookie.

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/5931/cookiebitewebgm1.jpg

holkenborg

06-12-2008, 04:53 PM

Lol :D

klaus

06-12-2008, 05:22 PM

@holkenborg:

1st round: Belcher - 2:0 - nothing much to say here, except that FOW won me game 1 and he fizzled (!) game 2

2nd round: I lose to Aggro Loam - the guy wrecked my mana base (note to self: try to avoid keeping 1-landers if you're running less than 8 cantrips)

3rd round: 2:0 against BW-Sui. The guy doesn't know the combo but is too slow anyway.

4th round: 2:0 against Stifle-Nought - I have more must counters and get to stick a counterbalance both games.

5th round: 0:2 My deck craps on me game 1 - had to keep a shacky 6 and got killed by an unexpected Shrapnel Blast. Game 2 kept a 1-lander and didn't see any land with my BS (*sigh*).

@Versus:

The 4 Wastelands alongside 4 Stifles proved to be like the "3rd" win con. Seriously - other than straight forward stifle-nought decks you can easily spend your stifles on opposing fetchies and stick with plan A (stone combo).
Together with 2 A. Ruins I pack 6 colorless lands, which is fine, due to a relatively high artifact count. Also, B and R are minor splashes in my version anyway. Plus I could always replace those 2 terminates with stuff like smother and Ghastly Demise.

Versus

06-13-2008, 02:04 PM

I'm gonna give them a try then. I'm already running Stifles and a sington of Naught (may need to up that to 2 as well).

On another note, I lost to Death and Taxes FIVE games in row last night! Besides the fact that I couldn't find a Counterbalance to save my life in half the games, there were far too many times I had Painter's in play/in hand and could not get to a Stone. In games I could land CB, Cataclysm (4cc) just fucked me up. I should have saved a FoW, but I had to use them eventually to counter the onslaught of creatures that just kept coming. At one point I had THREE Painter's on the feild (chump blocking for christ's sake) and 6 mana untapped and could have won straight out. Point being, I think I need to up my Stone count. Sure, there's lots of ways to dig, but sometimes you just can't get there.

What really kills me is the D&T is mine. 3 Thorn of Ameythist, 2 Seals, 2 Abolish would have come out of the SB too had we bothered. Yikes!

Mr Wiggl3s

06-13-2008, 09:09 PM

Isn't it pretty much a given that this deck has to run crypts?

for instance

if i side in 1 Vigor or something it would create a loop and cause the game to draw

Jaynel

06-14-2008, 12:45 AM

3-4 Crypt in the board is a good place to start.

klaus

06-14-2008, 11:24 AM

@Versus:

I'm currently running 3 Pryoclasms in my side - which nukes half of D&T's critters. Also I'd board in my extra EE. (alongside those 2 Academy Ruins which do for an excellent soft lock here ;)
4 Wastelands take care of that Karakas thing.
While my Stifles keep them from wrecking my mana base and from doing their Mangara thing.
---
Anyway..I've tested against D&T only 2 best of 3s and I guess I lost, too! :eek:

Then again nobody plays that deck in Berlin/GER. :cool:

For reference here's my current SB:

1 T's Crypt
3 Extirpate
1 Rushing River
2 Echoing Truth (multi purpose suit)
1 Counnterbalance
1 Pyroblast (Blast #5)
1 EE
3 Pyroclasm
1 P. Needle
1 Gaea's Blessing (only used it once - but who knows..)

BTW:
I replaced one Terminate with a Smother - an OK choice so far.
-
Klaus

holkenborg

06-14-2008, 11:55 AM

With all respect, without your maindeck it is of no use to look at your sideboard.

thelfj

06-15-2008, 12:27 AM

Isn't it pretty much a given that this deck has to run crypts?

for instance

if i side in 1 Vigor or something it would create a loop and cause the game to draw

it doesnt cause a loop, the vigor's ability is a triggered ability and doesnt go on the stack until the grindstone's ability resolves

whienot

06-15-2008, 01:44 AM

With all respect, without your maindeck it is of no use to look at your sideboard.

With all respect, check out post 278 (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=241799&postcount=278).

holkenborg

06-15-2008, 04:37 AM

klaus

06-15-2008, 08:37 AM

Oke, I have read them all, but don't go searching for decklists every time I read a new post :laugh:

How is Dark Confidant/Counterbalance for you? I play Fabricates/Llawan, Cephalid Empress (aggro meta)/Fire//Ice in those slots. This enables me to play only 4 volcanic islands and further only basic islands. Is Dark Confidant that important??? Doesn't it just get killed right away? Also, Fire/Ice is really, really good in this deck!

O jeah, and my sideboard (did not test this yet!) :P

3 Tormod's Crypt (1 main, against loam/thresh/gaea's blessing)
4 Divert (against disruption)
4 Repeal (against Pithing Needle) --> need to find something better..
4 Pyroclasm (against aggro)
--

Dark Confidant is the nuts in this deck for multiple reasons:
(#0.5 He's another mustcounter ;)
#1 He generates the card advantage you need against control.
#2 Your opponent needs to remove him or you'll win 90% of the time - which leaves less spot removal for Servant and Dreadnought.
#3 We have that not so random Sensei's Top (& 4 tool box tutors aka. Trinket Mage) = sweet synergy.
#4 We run really low costed spells.
(# 5 the black splash also gives us Extirpate and more spot removal).

A total of 3 Echoing Truth/Rushing River are worthy replacements for Repeal (which makes it hard to get rid of Humility for example)

Here's my optimized MD for reference:

4 Servant
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant
4 REB effects
3 Counterbalance
1 Grind Stone
2 P. Dreadnought
1 Sensei's D. Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Terminate
1 Smother
1 Vedalken Shackles
(39)

7 Blue Fetchies
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Academy Ruins
(21)

Versus

06-15-2008, 09:11 AM

klaus

06-15-2008, 10:49 AM

klaus: I'm still testing Ub. I dropped the red a while back so Pyroclasm wasn't an option. Still, Serra Avenger survives it and the version of D&T I have built runs Silver Knights, so it may not have been the best choice.

I just realized your not running any Ponder and only 1 Stone! I'm not gonna keep asking you how it's working, because it's obviously doing the job. I'm just gonna try it and see for myself. I am liking the inclusion of Wasteland. I'll let you know what I think.

Thoughts on REBs VS BEBs:

I suggest running red for red blasts (&Pyroclasm). Obviously BEBs have their merrits, too. When judging which blasts do a better job in general, we have to figure out what they do without Servant online:
BEBs:
- better VS red-based combo (TES, Belcher)
(with 4 stifles main and Counterbalance our combo MU is alright even preboard)
- better VS Goblins (Pyroclasm)
Dragon Stompy - BEBs shine here. However, DS is on a decline.
- better against AggroLoam (Burning Wish, Crusher, Devastating Dreams, S. Assault)
BEB is also very good in this otherwise really tough MU

REBs:
- better against most control/ aggro-control archetypes:
NQG, Landstill, Stifle-Nought.dec,
- better against Ichorid (Careful Study, Breakthrough etc..)
- better VS Faerie Stompy

It's not like Legacy has as much blue as pre-restrictions Vintage :tongue: BUT...
In comparison control decks make it way more complicated for us to force through our combo. This alone would make me choose REBs over BEBs.
+ REBs kill Meddling Mages ;)
-
I guess the bottom line is (I'm aware this sums up most conclusions...) it's a meta call :laugh:
-
The bottom line is:
Blasts are really conditional - that's why I'll stick with 4 MD & 1 in the side.

sephorusFR

06-15-2008, 12:17 PM

how does the imperial recruiter version turned out ? Is it worth considering ?

holkenborg

06-16-2008, 04:38 AM

This deck became 2nd on a 61-contesters tournament:

LINK (http://www.deckcheck.net//deck.php?id=17230)

1 Academy Ruins
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea

3 Dark Confidant
3 Painter's Servant
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Trinket Mage

4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
4 Daze
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
1 Grindstone
3 Ponder
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Smother
4 Stifle

Michael Keller

06-16-2008, 01:08 PM

I have to say, this thread is getting closer and closer to EPIC's list that we developed 2 months ago.

Imperial Painter is the only Painter list which has multiple Top 8's/4's at an event higher than 30 people in the world the last month and a half.

For reference, check here (http://www.deckcheck.net/).

I don't see how a deck which focuses around multiple mana-intensive control elements with a combo tossed in the mix can be competitive in a larger tournament. People really need to avoid the whole Counter/Top thing with the combo, because all it does is dilute and put you in a mana-intensive mode searching for answers. The trick to making the deck work is making the deck work without the combo, or with simply Painter. In doing so, you allow more breathing room against sideboard hate. With Painter out, sure you can pitch Island to Force. But with Painter out, you can also just R.E.B. I'd much rather use one card that can effectively do the same thing than two.

Blue is the most prominent color in the format, and, more the less, the most relevant. Imperial Recruiter serves as Painters 5-8, effectively giving you a better chance of playing him. Assuming your opponent doesn't play blue, you have resolved a Painter and put your opponent on Swords to Plowshares. Because you run a ridiculous amount of Blast effects, there's no feasible way that will resolve. And even if it does, you run more effective creatures that can wreak havoc on their own (turn one Magus of the Moon wins games alone).

And whoever said Jaya Ballard is terrible, you have no clue what you're talking about. She serves as a permanent one-sided Vindicate at the cost of one card a turn. She also is a finisher turning your dead Moxen and lands into Incinerates. She's three mana for a 2/2.

I assure you it is the most effective and competitive version of this deck to date.

sunshine

06-16-2008, 02:07 PM

that imperial painter list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17260) looks very strong.

Michael Keller

06-16-2008, 02:12 PM

That list is 99.9% accurate to the list I am currently running. It's a load of fun but expensive as hell.

b4r0n

06-16-2008, 03:13 PM

I don't see how a deck which focuses around multiple mana-intensive control elements with a combo tossed in the mix can be competitive in a larger tournament. People really need to avoid the whole Counter/Top thing with the combo, because all it does is dilute and put you in a mana-intensive mode searching for answers. The trick to making the deck work is making the deck work without the combo, or with simply Painter. In doing so, you allow more breathing room against sideboard hate. With Painter out, sure you can pitch Island to Force. But with Painter out, you can also just R.E.B. I'd much rather use one card that can effectively do the same thing than two.

I agree that it's important to make the deck work without the combo. And that's exactly why CB/Top is so good in the deck. You can sit back and play control, dig for the combo, and ultimately win with protection. It fits perfectly.

The Imperial Painter list looks interesting, but it seems a lot less consistent. It relies heavily on Painter in order to be anything better than a weenie deck that hates on blue.

Blue is the most prominent color in the format, and, more the less, the most relevant. Imperial Recruiter serves as Painters 5-8, effectively giving you a better chance of playing him. Assuming your opponent doesn't play blue, you have resolved a Painter and put your opponent on Swords to Plowshares. Because you run a ridiculous amount of Blast effects, there's no feasible way that will resolve. And even if it does, you run more effective creatures that can wreak havoc on their own (turn one Magus of the Moon wins games alone).

Blue is definitely important to beat. However, 11 blast effects seems, well, slightly excessive. And again, without Painter, the deck is pretty weak. Sure, turn 1 Magus is good. But there's no clock or lock behind it, unlike Dragon Stompy.

I'll try it out, but I'm not convinced by your arguments. Also, I don't think it's really fair to make the claim that any particular list is the "most effective and competitive" version of a deck.

Michael Keller

06-16-2008, 03:20 PM

Agreeable, but results speak for themselves. There is no indication based on those results that point to a different Painter list placing better.

And to be honest, the list is far more consistent than the other lists people have slapped together on here. It's a mono-colored deck with Demonic Tutor. The person who was responsible for placing highly the first time with the Imperial list (Okazawa Tatsuya) knew what he was doing and it's more evident now that it works like an oiled machine based on the multiple placings in such high-level events. No other list can yet to boast such a representation.

All I'm simply saying is, is that this variation of the deck seems most promising based on results.

Bryant Cook

06-16-2008, 03:43 PM

Agreeable, but results speak for themselves. There is no indication based on those results that point to a different Painter list placing better.

This is ridiculous. The deck it's self is still in it's infant stages and there's no defined list for the deck yet. It's hard to determine what works and what doesn't , just because someone somewhere had a placing with the deck doesn't mean there aren't better lists. It's one event, it's not going to be the be all end all list.

Redlotus27

06-16-2008, 03:50 PM

This is what I have been trying out, it needs work and I'm looking for some suggestions...

4 Painter's Servant
4 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
(12)
3 Fabricate
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Chrome Mox
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Mana Leak
1 Grindstone
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Brainstorm
(29)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Academy Ruins
3 Polluted Delta
(19)

I was trying to use Breakfast as a guide. Let me hear what everyone thinks!

Willoe

06-16-2008, 05:03 PM

that imperial painter list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17260) looks very strong.

Seems rather awful to me. You have no way to find your Grindstone, and without that, it's over. You can tutor for Trinket Mage, so why don't you remove a jaya ballard (which sucks, btw), add a trinket mage, then tune the mana base into:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Volcanic Island
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain

Even though the mana base's shaky, it will become far more consistent as you'll never win without the combo. Recruiter can now tutor both win conditions up, one directly, and one indirectly. Test and find out.

Illissius

06-16-2008, 06:51 PM

Willoe

06-16-2008, 07:42 PM

It's clear you didn't look very closely at that deck. It's first and foremost a Painter's Servant deck, not a Painter's Servant-Grindstone combo deck. The deck has eight copies of Painter via the Recruiters, which it resolves with the help of Blasts; once it's resolved, those same Blasts also protect it from removal, and together with the Volcanos and Jayas also become instant speed Vindicates for :r:. And, of course, if you also happen to draw Grindstone, you win the game right there. I don't know how good the deck is, but it's definitely an interesting direction to take it in.

I'm just answering on this part of your post:

No I perfectly understood what was written at the decklist. I know the main purpose of the deck, even though I stated it like I didn't. My bad. I did look very close at the deck, finding several flaws. Think about how many matchups where about 25% of the cards in the deck are dead in. This is the major flaw, and this is why you need a tutor of the win condition. Blue isn't only what you fear. What do you do against a Pernicious Deed? That, engineered explosives, grips game 2 & 3, etc. There's still many, many cards to be dealt with.

Another problem:
Painter sucks on its own - solution: Imperial Recruiter
Blasts suck on their own - solution: Imperial Recruiter (takes a long time to accomplish)
Grinstone sucks on its own - solution: None. Topdeck either combo piece or sit with a dead topdeck. Bad times.

A chance to quote myself:

You have no way to find your Grindstone, and without that, it's over.

I got to correct myself, as I didn't see all the points that you took. I just think that it's too "cool". The blasts might be good WITH servant, but what do you do against turn 1 thoughtseize? Almost any opponent will know what to aim for. The recruiter or the Servant itself. I think that it's very risky to play, and if I had the cards, I'd never participate with it at a tournament, no matter how good it is. 4 Grindstone doesn't do anything on their own. Jaya Ballard is too slow. Blasts are dead a large percentage of the time. How many decks in the DTB forum play with blue spells/blue permanents/islands? A lot, but what about all the other jank that also top8 fairly often? In my opinion, it's a sole meta-deck, and in the correct one consisting of almost only muc, thresh, landstill and dreadstill I could see the point of playing this deck. Across Europe, a lot of Aggro Loam is being played. In this matchup, your grindstone alone only helps them. Your blasts are dead, dead, dead, and Jaya will be slaughtered as soon as she enters play. And this deck plays with no stifles to negate gaea's blessings. That's a problem, too, as the Painter's decks now are rising, more people will most likely board in just one blessing.

Even though you'll be situated good with your blasts, you're still trading 1-for-1. What happens if the opponent has more answers than you? They do, especially after game 1. The deck has 8 blasts, 3 on sticks which blows, and 3 tempo-gainers against blue decks.

I think it's okay, but the addition of Trinket Mage along with i.e. some stifles and a more stable mana base would do, I think. I'm sorry if I flamed the deck, but I can't see the picture of playing that many conditional cards.

There has to exist a better possible build for Legacy, because I think that blasts are only good mainboarded in vintage. Maybe not even more after the restrictions. Time will tell, as it will with Legacy.

To say it short: Too nice combo not to build around, and too many interesting - like you say -, but weird builds. This is one of the better, but far from the best IMO.

I'm very tired right now, so I hope you get my points :smile:

Illissius

06-16-2008, 08:20 PM

Okay. Yeah, I agree with you that it seems like it could be fragile and inconsistent (even with 8 copies of Servant, you only have a 65% chance of drawing it in your opening seven), but it did make T8 and I have an unusual fetish for empirical data, so who knows.

Mental

06-16-2008, 08:53 PM

Willoe

06-17-2008, 06:03 AM

Seems to me the list would be a lot better with a faster clock, to supplement the other wincon. It's like, sure, you can blast their goyf, but you can't really capitalize on it by killing them quickly afterwards.

Why not less Burn and Spellshaper, and more Dragon Stompy?

Absolutely. Gathan Raiders, RPD and maybe a 'Slogger could clearly help here. Also, that Active Volcano sucks even greater balls than the blasts, right? Destroying an Island is nowhere as good as countering a spell IMO. So in total, I'd try with

-3 Jaya
-4 Lightning Bolt
-3 Active Volcano

and go with:
+4 Gathan Raiders
+3 RPD
+3 Arc-Slogger

But even though they're the best dudes in DS IMO, they aren't very playable as the list runs no seething song (and you could use a blast to back them up), and Recruier can't tutor them up, which can become necessary.

Therefore, some other awesome beefs could be:

Taurean Mauler
Guma
Pyre Charger (although no first strike makes it suck)
Vexing Shusher
Solemn Simulacrum
Slith Firewalker

And so on.

Versus

06-17-2008, 07:01 AM

The UR Recruiter/Trinket version I tried was very consistant as far as getting the combo down (as early as turn 2) on an average of around turn 4/5, but it was open to disruption I felt. Without the faster clock as you all mentioned and relying soley on the mill, I just don't think it would have gotten there. Also the mana base felt shaky.

Clark Kant

06-17-2008, 10:25 AM

that imperial painter list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17260) looks very strong.

It's an interesting list no doubt. Looks damn strong if your meta consists entirely of blue decks.

Why doesn't it play a single Silent Arbiter against aggro though? Maybe a Grim Lavamancer or two as well.

sunshine

06-17-2008, 10:35 AM

I think a lot of people are looking at this imperial painter list the wrong way. Obviously I'm not going to claim that it can't be improved upon, but before you start making changes you need to understand what its plan is in the first place. Try a few test games before coming to any conclusions. Honestly, if I owned a set of imperial recruiters I would be playing a list very close to that - possibly trying to get another one or two moon effects in the MD.

Willoe

06-17-2008, 01:40 PM

I think a lot of people are looking at this imperial painter list the wrong way.

How can we look at it 'the wrong way' ? What do you mean?

to understand what its plan

Am I not seeing an invisible win condition in the deck, or is it to do one of the following:

Painter + Stone Combo= win.
Painter + Blasts= Vindicates= Disruption= not straight out win.
Blasts= Possible vindicates= Possible disruption= Far from straight out win.
Magus= Disruption, but still far from a straight out win.

I can test the deck a couple of times, but a deck as shaky as this doesn't seem good in theory to me.

You really need to topdeck a grindstone in order to win. Remember, you've far from won aainst a resolved countertop. Really far. In fact, you've just lost as they can counter a stone, 15 of your instants and a chrome mox, and that will happen often, just with blind flips. Once your blast resolves, they might already have played their win condition. Where's yours? Either, add more tutor effects and thus more speed and consistency, or play alternative, reliant win conditions so you can get more resillancy. Right now, without testing knowledge, I can't exactly tell, but my thoughts about this painter's stone variant are rather negative, and I wouldn't call that list strong. If you really had to buy Recruiters, I'd buy them to Aluren or something like that.

Mental

06-17-2008, 01:51 PM

Absolutely. Gathan Raiders, RPD and maybe a 'Slogger could clearly help here. Also, that Active Volcano sucks even greater balls than the blasts, right? Destroying an Island is nowhere as good as countering a spell IMO. So in total, I'd try with

-3 Jaya
-4 Lightning Bolt
-3 Active Volcano

and go with:
+4 Gathan Raiders
+3 RPD
+3 Arc-Slogger

But even though they're the best dudes in DS IMO, they aren't very playable as the list runs no seething song (and you could use a blast to back them up), and Recruier can't tutor them up, which can become necessary.

Therefore, some other awesome beefs could be:

Taurean Mauler
Guma
Pyre Charger (although no first strike makes it suck)
Vexing Shusher
Solemn Simulacrum
Slith Firewalker

And so on.

I'm thinking that something like this is the strongest way to do this:

-2 Active Volcano
-3 Jaya
-4 Lightning Bolt

+3 Sword of Fire and Ice
+2 Blood Moon
+4 Taurean Mauler

You can't play Gathan Raiders/RPD in the Mauler slot because you want to hold blasts in your hand instead of going hellbent. You can't play Arc-Slogger because it costs to much mana.
SoFI is really techy with Painter's Servant out.
I like 9 Blast effects, thus, one active volcano stays.

Postboard you want Pyroclasms for Meddling Mage, though, which is a main reason that I presume Bolt was in there anyways.

Edit: In retrospect, 16 creatures could be too few to support SoFI.
-1 Active Volcano
-1 Blast
+2 Solemn Simulacrum? I have no idea.

Jak

06-17-2008, 02:24 PM

Mental

06-17-2008, 02:27 PM

Have you guys even tested the list? Doesn't sound like it. 11 Blasts and then 3 on a stick with 8 ways to find Painter. It also protects Painter and the combo. Test it before you throw it out the window.

I haven't thrown it around much, true, but look at it. 14 blast effects, 3 that are ridiculously slow, has to be overkill. No way to find Grindstone makes the deck inconsistent as hell, especially if Blasts get shut down by, say, Counterbalance.
SoFI is really nice in this deck, especially with Servant out, since it gives him protection from everything and a clock, and it's a draw engine to find Grindstone.

Michael Keller

06-17-2008, 03:06 PM

No way to find Grindstone makes the deck inconsistent as hell, especially if Blasts get shut down by, say, Counterbalance.

Well, in that rare instance Counterbalance resolves against your Blast effects, you can draw, tutor, or play Jaya Ballard and she can destroy it herself. You're missing the whole point: The deck doesn't need Grindstone to win. It plays seriously like a red weenie deck - a very annoying one at that. You pack burn in Jaya and Lightning Bolts and you control tempo with Magus, Blasts, and Active Volcano.

People also forget that Active Volcano functionally shuts down Daze. When your opponent drops an Island and passes the turn, you bounce it in response to them declaring the end of their second main phase and then force them to discard. Then on your turn two, you've got pretty much 3-4 mana available and sick tempo advantage. That's...not bad.

And, once again, if your opponent is not playing blue, then obviously Painter's Servant will resolve. In that instance, you should win the game by going aggro, destroying their permanents, or drawing a Grindstone. Not making the deck function primarily around Grindstone allows you to get around Needle and Blessing, too. At least, that's what I do with my sideboard.

Mental

06-17-2008, 03:07 PM

Well, in that rare instance Counterbalance resolves against your Blast effects, you can draw or tutor for Jaya Ballard and she can destroy it herself.

I wouldn't call it "rare" - they drop turn 2 Balance, you Blast, they Daze.
But yeah, I see your point.

EDIT:
After some thinking, the only obvious thing that needs to go from this deck is Lightning Bolt. With Recruiter, you have 8 moon effects, 8 Servants, and 17 Blasts, 7 of which are on a stick. There's plenty of creatures in the deck (19, counting SSG), so I would just replace the Bolts with 4 SoFI, or a 3/1 SoFI SoLS split.

Michael Keller

06-18-2008, 01:22 PM

I've played my Imperial Painter deck in three tournaments (winning/splitting for first in each) and hundreds of games play-testing and here's what I've come to:

Lightning Bolts need to stay. They handle annoying things like Bob, Lackey, opposing Painter, early Goyfs, Pit-Dragons, and the sort. It also acts as a softener for beats. In the instance you don't need them, they're always fodder for Chrome Mox. I even wanted to cut it at first. But I've learned not to. And I won't.

The creature base is fine as it is. There's plenty of cheap damage that will sneak in until you win via creatures or Grindstone.

The Blast effects are so good, as they should be. Yesterday, I played against Ichorid in a crucial round 3 match. Game three, he dropped Pithing Needle a few turns before and I was at two life with a Painter's Servant out staring at close to 70 damage the next turn. I E.O.T Red Blast his Needle and hope to draw the Grindstone - I did. Things like this don't happen often, but it proves you have outs and that's what the deck is supposed to churn out - instant or top-decked solutions. This isn't M.B.C where you draw something and hope you can run the table with it - almost everything you draw in this deck becomes an immediate and relevant threat forcing your opponent to deal with it immediately (Magus, Jaya, Painter, Imperial Recruiter).

The difference between Imperial Painter and Dragon Stompy is Dragon Stompy uses bigger creatures to smash face for the win. This deck plays more like control (even more-so) and you can deal with things more handily. The deck is smooth as it is and changing an already winning formula is ludicrous. The deck is sooooo much fun and very competitive. Two very enthusiastic thumbs up.

DrewliusMaximus

06-19-2008, 11:28 PM

Imperial Painter does look pretty sweet.

A Legend, (or anyone else who has played it alot) is Imperial Recruiter significantly more consistent than Dragon Stompy? And what are its tougher match-ups? (or match-ups generally for that matter?)

Michael Keller

06-19-2008, 11:34 PM

Imperial Recruiter adds a certain level of consistency to a deck which sorely lacks tutor effects. The fact this creature blocks, attacks, has a friendly cost, and fetches you every creature in your deck gives it a boost of adrenaline.

Dragon Stompy's sole purpose is to kill you as fast as possible while using permanent-based control effects that stop you from playing your spells effectively putting you in no-man's land. Dragon Stompy is an archetype which plays similar to Imperial Painter, except one deck can draw into an "oops, I win" card in Grindstone which is far cheaper than casting and pumping into Arc Slogger. There are plenty of control elements in both decks to maintain the comparison, but ultimately they are two separate entities and should be treated as such.

The Imperial Painter deck does not need Grindstone to always win. It is one of the first competitive Painter lists in Legacy that relies on the power of the Servant alone to win. With the other nasty creatures the deck packs, such as Magus of the Moon, Vexing Shusher, etc, it just simply goes into beat-down mode. I've won a majority of my games that way.

Mental

06-19-2008, 11:39 PM

Imperial Recruiter adds a certain level of consistency to a deck which sorely lacks tutor effects. The fact this creature blocks, attacks, has a friendly cost, and fetches you every creature in your deck gives it a boost of adrenaline.

Dragon Stompy's sole purpose is to kill you as fast as possible while using permanent-based control effects that stop you from playing your spells, effectively putting you in no-man's land. Dragon Stompy is an archetype which plays similar to Imperial Painter, except one deck can draw into an "oops, I win" card in Grindstone. There are plenty of control elements in both decks to maintain the comparison, but ultimately they are two separate entities which should be treated as such.

So I decided to take your word that the deck was solid and tested it a bit on MWS:

I played MBC - A deck this deck has a lot of problems with. None of my creatures ever stuck and I felt that I never had enough 'Blasts to combat the insane amounts of creature destruction that the deck was playing.
If I played that MU again, I probably would have just played lands until I could drop Servant + Grindstone and win in one turn.

I'm sure the Thresh MU is decent, just based on all sorts of Blasts.
I found the deck incredibly reliant on Servant to do anything, however. You have a decent chance of having it in your opening hand when you count in Recruiter, but basically you're going to have to mull into it if you don't have it.
Maybe you can beat Threshold without Servant? I'd be surprised, though.

Michael Keller

06-19-2008, 11:47 PM

So I decided to take your word that the deck was solid and tested it a bit on MWS:

I played MBC - A deck this deck has a lot of problems with. None of my creatures ever stuck and I felt that I never had enough 'Blasts to combat the insane amounts of creature destruction that the deck was playing.
If I played that MU again, I probably would have just played lands until I could drop Servant + Grindstone and win in one turn.

I'm sure the Thresh MU is decent, just based on all sorts of Blasts.
I found the deck incredibly reliant on Servant to do anything, however. You have a decent chance of having it in your opening hand when you count in Recruiter, but basically you're going to have to mull into it if you don't have it.
Maybe you can beat Threshold without Servant? I'd be surprised, though.

I'm not going to toss out percentages against Thresh, because I don't have them available at the moment (as I have tested all versions of Thresh against this archetype), but I can tell you I've found success against Thresh mainly due to the Blast effects. If your opponent is putting you on a turn one Painter, they could be shocked to run into turn one Magus where all of their fetches are shut down and they're put on hopeful early basics and draw effects while you sit back, beat, and draw more counterspells. Counterbalance is actually not that relevant when it resolves because I play 15 3cc cards (much like "It's the Fear" - retroactively defeating the opposing Counterbalance threat with 3cc cards of their own) and one main-deck Shusher. And if it does manage to resolve, Jaya destroys it.

MBC is MBC - it is what it is. They rape your hand and you have to deal with it. You play enough beaters where it shouldn't ideally be a problem and you can fight back. This is also another example of why Lightning Bolt is so effective.

DrewliusMaximus

06-20-2008, 12:00 AM

I didn't mean that Dragon Stompy and Imperial Painter were all that similar (although they do have some things in common). But with the same manabase, I was wondering if Imperial Painter doesn't have to mulligan as much. I assume that it probably runs a little more consistently just because of the casting costs of the cards.

Michael Keller

06-20-2008, 12:05 AM

I didn't mean that Dragon Stompy and Imperial Recruiter were all that similar (although they do have some things in common). But with the same manabase, I was wondering if Imperial Recruiter doesn't have to mulligan as much. I assume that it probably run a little more consistently just because of the casting costs of the cards.

Absolutely. The deck is very consistent, given the mana accelerators and cost-effective spells. I've made personal changes to the deck to add to its consistency and resiliency, which is why I'm doing well with it.

DrewliusMaximus

06-20-2008, 12:18 AM

Legend, would mind saying what changes you've made besides the Shusher?

Mental

06-20-2008, 01:11 PM

I'm not going to toss out percentages against Thresh, because I don't have them available at the moment (as I have tested all versions of Thresh against this archetype), but I can tell you I've found success against Thresh mainly due to the Blast effects. If your opponent is putting you on a turn one Painter, they could be shocked to run into turn one Magus where all of their fetches are shut down and they're put on hopeful early basics and draw effects while you sit back, beat, and draw more counterspells. Counterbalance is actually not that relevant when it resolves because I play 15 3cc cards (much like "It's the Fear" - retroactively defeating the opposing Counterbalance threat with 3cc cards of their own) and one main-deck Shusher. And if it does manage to resolve, Jaya destroys it.

MBC is MBC - it is what it is. They rape your hand and you have to deal with it. You play enough beaters where it shouldn't ideally be a problem and you can fight back. This is also another example of why Lightning Bolt is so effective.

Shusher seems strong Maindeck.
Mind posting your list?

Michael Keller

06-21-2008, 12:38 AM

Here is the current list in which I play. It is based on Okazawa Tatsuya's original list in which he came in 5th out of a 55 person tournament earlier this year.

Imperial Painter

[4x] Imperial Recruiter
[4x] Magus of the Moon
[4x] Painter's Servant
[4x] Simian Spirit Guide
[4x] Lightning Bolt
[4x] Pyroblast
[4x] Red Elemental Blast
[4x] Chrome Mox
[4x] Grindstone
[3x] Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
[2x] Active Volcano
[1x] Vexing Shusher

[10x] Mountain
[4x] Ancient Tomb
[4x] City of Traitors

I'd prefer to keep the sideboard anonymous for the time being, as there are some important additions that our team has prepared for some bigger upcoming events. At any rate, this is the list I run. I've had no troubles with it so far as everything has come up big at one point or another. The deck really hasn't had many bad match-ups in testing and tournament play (so far). It's one of those decks that "it is what it is". It can win using control elements that cripple your opponent's resources and can win by going aggro or combo. The fact that each card works in the deck together (and some on their own just as well) adds great strength and a helping hand to a moderately fragile combo. I can have a more thorough analysis of match-up interpretation soon.

The main difference between my list and Tatsuya's is that he ran three Imperial Recruiter and three Grindstone and played two of the card Burnout (http://findmagiccards.com/GF/USC/MTGC/AL/BURNOUT1.jpeg). I just decided the fourth Imperial Recruiter and Grindstone would add more consistency, which they have. I'm not sure if his lack of inclusion was based on the price of those cards, but given he had three of each, I'd assume it was a conscious effort on his part. I believe he also ran three Active Volcano. I cut one of those and added a Vexing Shusher to help add protection and allow for a little abusing of Imperial Recruiter.

The deck is loads of fun to play and quite competitive. It's a bold new direction to take the combo and I enjoy playing it a lot.

Illissius

06-21-2008, 09:27 AM

The deck now has (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=16361) three (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17260) T8s (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17408), so whatever it is, I think it is safe to say that a fluke is not it.

DrewliusMaximus

06-21-2008, 12:32 PM

How about Silent Arbiter for Imperial Painter's sideboard?

Since I haven't been able to play this yet, I don't really know how it works against stuff like Goblins and Ichorid, but Arbiter sure seems like a worthy 1-of since it can be tutored for. The last guy to top 8 with Imperial Painter packed 4 Crypts in his board...I could see 1 of those Crypts being an Arbiter.

m03

06-21-2008, 12:42 PM

The deck is loads of fun to play and quite competitive. It's a bold new direction to take the combo and I enjoy playing it a lot.

...and I imagine that we'll be seeing this list in the Established Decks subforum pretty soon.

Illissius

06-21-2008, 03:17 PM

According to my calculations, you have a 65% chance of seeing either Servant or Recruiter in your opening seven, 84% if you're willing to mulligan once, and 92% if you're willing to mulligan twice.

Michael Keller

06-22-2008, 03:26 AM

If anyone is also interested in how well this deck is performing, check out the Top 4's/Top 8's thread. I've been owning house in Syracuse with it for four weeks in a row strong with it now. I mean, there are a lot of Islands floating around here, but that is by no fault of my own. A lot of the more popular upper-tier decks run blue, so that's good for me. If they don't, you just combo out and win or blow up permanents. It's really solid.

And Magus of the Moon, contrary to some, does win games by itself. The last tournament I played in (came in second) was due largely in part to early Magus. It's just so hard to deal with.

Joon

06-22-2008, 09:10 AM

As much as I enjoy testing this deck online, here several points that I personally dislike:

1) It's inconsistent. Maybe this has to do with the MWS Shuffler or my mulliganing, but still. Aren't there any red cards that tutor up an artifact?

2) Some cards don't do anything (e.g. Lightning Bolt)

Here's the list I'm testing:

Lands & Mana

10 Mountains
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Critter

4 Painter's Servant
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

Rest

4 Grindstone
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Burnout

Sideboard

4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree

I dislike Burnout (except the flavor text :tongue: ) and Bolt somehow. I see, Bolt can remove Confidants, Meddling Mages and so on...but is that really important? We could play cards that actually do something for the combo, or does Bolt improve the Aggro-mode or something that I don't see at the moment?
Maybe I'll try Shusher like in A Legend's list but then I'd play more of them as they are your only chance against Chalice @ 1 in Game 1. Shushers make Moon effects MUCH more dangerous against several decks, so maybe they're worth a shot.
What do you (especially A Legend) think about my build?

Illissius

06-22-2008, 10:28 AM

So, odd idea. What about splashing blue for Ancestral Vision? With all your Red Blasts, you are likely to win the counterwar when it comes off suspend, and it helps keep the gas coming so you don't get overwhelmed anyways after your Vindicates come online. (This might require the deck to not be built around the Dragon Stompy shell as much.)

EDIT - And has anyone considered Serum Powder here?

Joon

06-22-2008, 12:22 PM

Serum Powder might be worth testing, but what would you remove from the list to play it?

Maybe we could use Sensei's Divining Top? Yeah, I know, we have only Recruiter as shuffle effect, but when searching the Grindstone or the Painter/Recruiter it might be worth it to be able to look at two more cards than just draw blindly.
I guess I'll test -3 Burnout +3 Sensei's Divining Top.

Illissius

06-22-2008, 12:47 PM

If you add Top it's not that difficult to cut some Mountains and add some fetchlands.

Joon

06-22-2008, 01:04 PM

Yeah, actually we could do that but they

1) open you for stifle effects (ok, Blasts, but it sucks to use them for that)
2) aren't any Shufflers with Magus anymore

But maybe 4-5 Red Fetchlands are worth it. Got to test that.

btw: Is anything except Fetchlands vulnerable to Stifle in this deck?

Michael Keller

06-22-2008, 01:12 PM

Lightning Bolt is actually very important to this deck. As I've said before, it is fantastic against annoying creatures like Dark Confidant and Meddling Mage. At worst, you pitch it to Chrome Mox. Lightning Bolt seriously has won me rounds too as a finisher. You'd be surprised how fast this deck can just simply use the combat step to win games. It happens a lot.

As for Top, it's a great idea, the only problem is you play Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors. And tapping that every turn isn't very good when you function essentially off three to four land the entire game. You'd be using precious red sources to search into top. The idea is to draw, drop, and destroy. This deck has amazing top-decks because of how good each creature really is and how important your spells can be.

Edit: The activated abilities on the creatures can be Stifled, as well as Grindstone. It would buy your opponent a turn considering you have no Blast effect.

Joon

06-23-2008, 01:17 PM

Lightning Bolt is actually very important to this deck. As I've said before, it is fantastic against annoying creatures like Dark Confidant and Meddling Mage. At worst, you pitch it to Chrome Mox. Lightning Bolt seriously has won me rounds too as a finisher. You'd be surprised how fast this deck can just simply use the combat step to win games. It happens a lot.

Ok, I trust your word, so note to myself: Further testing needed.

As for Top, it's a great idea, the only problem is you play Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors. And tapping that every turn isn't very good when you function essentially off three to four land the entire game. You'd be using precious red sources to search into top. The idea is to draw, drop, and destroy. This deck has amazing top-decks because of how good each creature really is and how important your spells can be.

Yeah, there's the mana problem. But in my testings, Top was near to great in all games (that I drew it). We'll, further testing will show.

Edit: The activated abilities on the creatures can be Stifled, as well as Grindstone. It would buy your opponent a turn considering you have no Blast effect.

Chrome Mox can be stifled too, which sucks pretty much, or not?

Michael Keller

06-23-2008, 01:25 PM

Chrome Mox can be stifled too, which sucks pretty much, or not?

Ehh, not really. I've never had it happen to me. If someone was going to Stifle anything, it would be the activation of Grindstone to buy themselves a turn. Of course, you could Stifle a Chrome Mox, it just depends on your hand and what land you have available to use afterwards. At worst if your opponent Stifles a Mox, you keep a card in your hand.

Iron_Blood

06-23-2008, 03:58 PM

// Lands
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [CHK] Island (1)
1 [MR] Great Furnace
1 [B] Mountain (3)
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb

// Creatures
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [P3] Imperial Recruiter
4 [P2] Sea Drake

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder
3 [TE] Grindstone
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [B] Red Elemental Blast
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [OD] Divert
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 4 [10E] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroblast

muodoka

06-23-2008, 07:02 PM

Mental

06-23-2008, 07:37 PM

@A Legend: I'm having trouble putting up results anywhere near what you put up when I test. Mind posting a tournament report, or writing one next time you go to a tournament?

THEchubbymuffin

06-23-2008, 10:56 PM

this may just be me but umm

why not play it like TES so you have a alt win condition like tendrils, warrens, or hunting pack. instead of just hoping for the grindstone or painters servant to go off.

cause TES has no problem ramping to 6 mana to combo.

Because it would make it even more inconsistant. Painters and Grindstone take up 6 slots minimum, those six slots will clog your combo in TES significantly.

Michael Keller

06-23-2008, 10:59 PM

@A Legend: I'm having trouble putting up results anywhere near what you put up when I test. Mind posting a tournament report, or writing one next time you go to a tournament?

No problem.

kabal

06-24-2008, 12:35 PM

Basically a Mono Blue version ... Thoughts?

Sud Legacy League (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=17542)
Source: Magoscuro
Date: 22. Jun 2008
Place: 1st
Participants: 12

Trinket Painter by Gianluca Spanu

3 Trinket Mage
4 Painter's Servant

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
3 Ponder
3 Daze
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare
1 Gaea's Blessing

1 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Grindstone

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
9 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
1 underground sea

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Aether Spellbomb
2 Stifle

Mental

06-24-2008, 01:07 PM

Seems ok...What's with all the Gaea's blessings? Am I missing something there? I get that he can set EE at 5, but when is that ever necessary? It seems like this list can be cleaned up.

Bryant Cook

06-24-2008, 02:37 PM

@A Legend: I'm having trouble putting up results anywhere near what you put up when I test. Mind posting a tournament report, or writing one next time you go to a tournament?

There's a lot of blue in our metagame. Which makes Imperial Painter win more. I exclusively play TES, which made people play islands. Now A legend is making them lose for playing islands. It all works out.

Brushwagg

06-24-2008, 06:54 PM

There's a lot of blue in our metagame. Which makes Imperial Painter win more. I exclusively play TES, which made people play islands. Now A legend is making them lose for playing islands. It all works out.

Still needs to beat me. ;) But I have been the bane of Hollywood for a little while now.

@"Mono Blue" list: I don't like the 1xs of the dual lands. The only thing they do is pump up EE, which the deck has no way of getting back.

DrewliusMaximus

06-24-2008, 09:49 PM

I got to test Imperial Painter a little bit last night for the first time. I still don't have a great sense for how it flows in most match-ups, but I have to ask (more experienced Painter's than myself):

Could Magma Jet be used instead of Lightning Bolt?

I know you'd be giving up the most efficient burn spell in the game, and that you might mana burn to use Magma Jet, and it's slower, but...

Scrying seems like it would help the topdecking alot, and Painter's manabase can make it a 1st turn play many times if needed, and 2 damage is enough to take care of many targets Lightning Bolt is intended to kill (I think).

Michael Keller

06-25-2008, 10:30 AM

There's a lot of blue in our metagame. Which makes Imperial Painter win more. I exclusively play TES, which made people play islands. Now A legend is making them lose for playing islands. It all works out.

Meta Preparation 101. I do my homework. :cool:

At any rate, I think one of the main reasons this deck is putting up great numbers is because of the broad spectrum of decks which inherently run blue either as a splash or primary color. Most of the decks in the DTB forum do run blue.

I haven't had any difficulty against non-blue decks at all in the ones I've faced. You can go aggro and go combo and win too. I am, however, testing ridiculously against decks like Suicide and the sort to see what that match-up is like.

@Mental: I'm working on getting a nice tournament report together. Hopefully I'll have one up after the big Hadley Mox event this Saturday.

@Magma Jet: It's certainly not a bad idea. The only issue I see with it is that it doesn't stop the larger threats like a Goyf (which I've knocked off even before combat) and Pit-Dragons. With this deck, if you're looking for a Painter, you'll get one by drawing it or Recruiter. I'll test it out.

DrewliusMaximus

06-25-2008, 06:12 PM

A Legend, I was thinking that Magma Jet would be more for scrying away lands and finding business (specifically Grindstone) than for finding Servant. From the few games I played it seemed like getting Servant was a piece of cake. Your point about Goyfs and Pit-Dragons though shows how important that 1 extra damage can be. I thought about having 3 Bolts and 3 Jets, but I would hate to take out any of the "Vindicates".

One other question: has anyone tried going down to 2 Jayas in Imperial Painter?

Dosan_the_Wisest_Leaf

07-07-2008, 02:55 AM

I know this is a bit out there but I found my Mesmeric Orb's yesterday and I have been thinking of something like this:

2 Wasteland
3 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
3 Taiga

4 Painter’s Servant
4 Goblin Welder
4 Tarmogyf
4 Ichorid
4 Dark Confidant
2 Nantuko Blightcutter

3 Mesmeric Orb
2 Compost
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Gamble
3 Terminate
4 Reap
2 Grindstone

So obviously you Painter: Black. I havent had time to test it yet, but in my head it seems effective. Obviously the numbers need a working but its only a very rough, early version of the deck. Obviously has the potential to have massive CA, has plenty of spot removal and many threats and Tutors often. Ichorid might need more black to be more useful is an obvious problem ive What do you guys think? Any help is apprecicated and considered so dont be shy.

Michael Keller

07-07-2008, 03:06 PM

One other question: has anyone tried going down to 2 Jayas in Imperial Painter?

That's what I did in my build. I'm not so sure, though. It seems every time I open with Jaya she just gets tossed to Chrome Mox because of her ineptitude in the opening seven. When she's online, she's a house. I wouldn't play anymore than two, though. Her usefulness can be limited and her casting-cost can be a bit problematic when you consider the 8 two-mana lands you run. I'm even considering taking her down to one, but it will probably stay at two.

DrewliusMaximus

07-07-2008, 06:21 PM

Legend, since posting the question about 2 Jayas on this thread, I kind of started to like having 3. I posted a little bit about that on the Imperial Painter thread. Although Jaya's RR requirement sucks, I think I might rather have too much of her than not enough.

Ch@os

07-07-2008, 06:37 PM

Hi, i think my list belongs in this Thread, right?

Mainboard:

Lands: [19]

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
3 Underground Sea
5 Island
1 Swamp

Creatures: [14]

3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant
4 Painters Servant
3 Trinket Mage

Spells: [27]

4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Grindstone

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gea's Blessing
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Extirpate
3 Echoing Truth
3 Back to Basics

Any thoughts? Discuss.

Ch@os

07-15-2008, 08:35 AM

whitenihilist

04-01-2010, 09:22 AM

Any advice on my U/B/R Servant Build? Last tourney I went too it did terrible. 20/36 to be exact. To be fair it was my first time at that shop, and had no idea what the meta-game was like, but still...

20-Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
3 Watery Grave
2 Academy Ruins

22-Spells
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
2 Lim-Dul's Vault

12-Creatures
4 Painter's Servant
3 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant

6-Artifacts
2 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explsosive

SB:
4 Duress
4 Pyroclasim
3 Pithing Needle
4 Tormod's Crypt

I am thinking of putting a Meekstone in MB. I cannot afford real dual lands or better fetch lands either.

moug

05-26-2010, 07:43 AM

Bazaar of Moxen is a huge tournament in europe.
http://bazaar-of-moxen.com/

There was 498 people and a Painter Ru made top 16.
Top16 - Noham Maubert - UR Painters

4 Painter's Servant
4 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
2 Daze
2 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Grindstone
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Seat of the Synod

SB:
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Meekstone
3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
3 Lightning Bolt

Kangaxx

05-27-2010, 10:56 AM