[Deck] Stifle + Trickbind + Hunted Horror + Dreadnought

[Clark Kant]

Does anyone think that a deck featuring a playset of each of these cards has potential?

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Hunted Horror
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind

Throw in the very best cards that blue and black have to offer and you wind up with this very rough list...

Deck: Vaka Broken

//Lands
2 Swamp
4 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

//Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Hunted Horror

//Combo
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind

//Disruption
4 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze

//Lock
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterbalance

I would love to include some Wasteland but I don't think the deck can support them.

The deck had zero testing, it's still in the brainstorming phase. And yes I drew inspiration from Enter the Fist but it's a very distinct entity...

It runs a full playset of Trickbind as opposed to just one. It foregos the more controllish Trinket Mage + one of artifact route for a more aggressive Hunted Horror route. And it drops the entire Standstill + Factory combo.

So I think it deserves a seperate discussion.

What do you guys think. I love the idea of playing 7/7 and 12/12 tramplers without a drawback on turn two/three very consistently, on the back of the best card drawing and disruption spells available in magic.

But once again, the deck is still in the development phase, so I'm open to any and all suggestions.

[Osse]

"You're worse than Smmenen on Control Slaver"

No, seriously. How are you calling CounterTop a lock when you're only running 2 of each card? Not to mention your curve is non-existant. Daze is terrible here, too. Put in more copies of CounterTop. And how is 18 lands enough when you need more than 2 mana to get a dude down and protected?

[rleader]

And yes I drew inspiration from Enter the Fist but it's a very distinct entity...

That's a bit debatable. I'm not sure what's so dramatically different here. In fact, it's less dramatic than other variants, brand decks, Isamaru's Vial Horror, etc. All Trickbind and Stifle have going for them is that they can be pitched to Force and threaten storm decks.

It's neat in theory, but Tarmogoyf is a one card combo.

I think Aether Vial is a must, just so you can have the additional chance to sac one Nought to another. And to help with that (at least in the odds of acquiring all the cards you need in hand), you're back to using Trinket Mage.

At least "Vial Horror" is quirky and fun; it's more exciting to play bad cards than feeling like you're playing threshold minus the good cards, anyway.

[Clark Kant]

"You're worse than Smmenen on Control Slaver"

No, seriously. How are you calling CounterTop a lock when you're only running 2 of each card? Not to mention your curve is non-existant. Daze is terrible here, too. Put in more copies of CounterTop. And how is 18 lands enough when you need more than 2 mana to get a dude down and protected?

Ossie, I have no clue why you are comparing me with probably the finest vintage player in magic's history but thank you. :p

But the deck is clearly not built around counterbalance in the very least. Top and Brainstorm are primarly here because they work beautifully with fetchlands, with confidants, and with helping you find your combo pieces.

IMO, it doesn't make sense to run more than 2 copies of Counterbalance here. Without Trinket Mage, you have no way to tutor for Top. And aside from Top, the only library manipulation you have in the whole deck is 4 Brainstorm. Without Standstill, the games play out much faster than in Dreadstill. Even if you up both the CB and Top count by one, you still won't see them together frequently enough to combo them with any consistency.

Honestly, the main reason I included the Counterbalance is to draw out my opponent's countermagic. I noticed when playing Dreadstill and Thresh that my opponents always tend to freak out every time anyone tries to resolve Counterbalance, throwing all their countermagic at it to stop it from resolving. This increases my ability to resolve my threats.

The 2 Counterbalances are just cards that are thrown into the deck and could be replaced with just about anything. They could just as easily be Ponders without changing much at all.

And what exactly is your problem with the curve? That it plays too many great cards that only cost one or two mana? The deck has FoW, Daze, Spell Snare, CB and Thoughtseizes to deal with Chalice and Counterbalances. If it needs more help, that's what sideboards are for.

Eighteen lands should work fine. Generally, you can cut a land for every two cantrips/confidants/tops that you run. That's the rule that threshold goes by. And threshold's curve tops off at four (Mystic Enforcer)!!

But if you want, you can just go...
-2 Sensei's Top
-2 Counterbalance
+4 Ponder

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Rleader, no offense, I don't think you are qualified to deem this deck as Dreadstill aka. Enter the Fist with a black splash. Since you never posted in the Dreadstill thread and I don't know how much you actually know about what Dreadstill runs or how it plays...

Here is a list of cards that this deck doesn't run that are an absolutely critical part of Dreadstill's strategy...

Trinket Mage
A bunch of 1 of artifacts
Standstill
Wasteland
Mishra's Factory

I have a hard time believing that any of the people that actually play Dreadstill would think these two decks are the same or play the same.

Aether Vial I don't think belongs here at all. Every card here except for the 2 threats do something by themselves. Vial does nothing of value unless you randomly have duplicates of Dreadnought. It's a decent card in creature heavy decks, but here, it just isn't better than the cards you have to cut to make room for it imho.

Tarmogoyf can be chumped all day long and is usually around a 4/5. These guys are two turn or at worst three turn clocks with trample. They also laugh in the face of a Goyf on the otherside of the table. So I don't think your comparison is valid.

[Hanni]

-3 Spell Snare
-1 Hunted Horror
+3 Ponder
+1 Counterbalance

With 1-2 Top(s) and 1 Counterbalance in the sideboard.

Personal preference I suppose.

[Clark Kant]

That could work.

Actually, I really want to maindeck...

Engineered Explosives

Echoing Truth

Not only are both cards fantastic on their own, killing Goyfs/Dreadnoughts/Tokens, bouncing back Tombstalkers and Dreadnoughts and Warrens tokens, but they also combo well with Hunted Horror.

I would do that first before I add Ponder.

[rleader]

I have a hard time believing that any of the people that actually play Dreadstill would think these two decks are the same or play the same.

I have a hard time believing anyone who plays Dreadstill would want to bother with this list.


The 2 Counterbalances are just cards that are thrown into the deck and could be replaced with just about anything.

No offense, but if you actually think that, putting it under the header "LOCK" seems to imply that you think otherwise.

[Benie Bederios]

Honestly, the main reason I included the Counterbalance is to draw out my opponent's countermagic.

Wouldn't Thoughtseize/Duress be >>>>>>> Counterbalance if you want to draw out countermagic.

[Clark Kant]

Thoughtseize definately, which is why I'm running a playset. Duress can be hit or miss some games.

Balance is a lock, but one that this deck isn't built around in the slightest, whcih is why two copies is sufficent imo.

[Fred Bear]

I think Hunted Horror dilutes the deck.

Here's my rationale - Why do people play Tarmogoyf? Because if they can play green and need a 2-drop creature he is easily the best available. Hunted Horror is trying to be Dreadnoughts 5-8, but he comes up well short. With respect to pure cost efficiency : with Nought + Stifle, you get a 12/12 Trampler for 1U (2U if you use Trickbind) while with Stifle + Horror, you get a 7/7 Trampler for 1BB (1UBB if you use Trickbind). And with respect to 'threat' efficiency : 2 hits with a 12/12 = gg while 3 hits with a 7/7 = gg. I would question whether you are better off playing more/better support/search for Dreadnought or maintaining the 'redundancy' with Horror - my gut says the support/search is better (I don't necessarily believe that Dreadstill is the only solution, though).

Isamaru did a lot of development on the Vile Horror deck (don't remember if it's posted somewhere here or just at salvation) which played much differently, obviously, because it just used support cards for Hunted Horror (the deck began long before the errata to Dreadnought) and he did have some success with it. I draw the comparison because I think Dreadnought 'improves' that deck idea (i.e. a single, large, must-answer-quickly threat plus support).

I would probably go...

-4 Hunted Horror
-3 Spell Snare
-1 Trickbind

+1 Sensei's Top
+1 Counterbalance
+1 Daze
+3 Trinket Mage
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Engineered Explosives

And I would change the mana base to something like (but 18 may be too few lands)...

2 Underground Sea
7 Island
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

Just some thoughts...

Fred Bear...

[Isamaru]

If nobody ever took me seriously with Vile Horror, why would they suddenly be open to -everything that matters, +countertop lulz?

Let me just say that countermagic doesn't work as the disruption for every deck. Try discard, or reactive, yet powerful cards.