Viability of Gleeful Sabotage?

[Curby]

In both my 10-land stompy deck and my elf deck, I need a good Disenchant effect in green. Choosing the right card for the job can be tricky. The ideal card would be:

1) Low cost (especially in the low mana stompy deck)
2) Versatile (instant speed is nice, as is the ability to hit both artifacts and enchantments)
3) Resilient (dodge Chalice, Counterbalance, Force of Will, etc.)

In Elves the clear choice appears to be Krosan Grip. For 3 mana, it can disenchant unimpeded by everything except the Countertop player who happens to have a 3-drop at the top of the library. The advantages of using Gleeful Sabotage would be the ability to 2-for-1 the opponent and the ability to dodge any number of Chalices set with any number of counters.

In Stompy, I'm currently using Naturalize because it only costs 2. However, this makes it prime bait for Counterbalance, Spell Snare, and Chalice at 2. Some have suggested Seal of Primordium for its ability to dodge discard, but it seems that Gleeful Sabotage is another good choice. While it is cast at Sorcery speed, the Convoke copy cannot be auto-countered by Counterbalance or Chalice, so it is arguably more resilient as it is being cast.

Any opinions? Any better options? Thanks!

[YuanTi]

Gleeful Sabotage is a sorcery.

Krosan Grip i much better in practically everything that can run it. Otherwise Sealof Primordium is probably a better choice.

[Willoe]

Sundering Vitae is the solution. You'll never get to three mana in green stompy, so Krosan Grip has a much greater chance of being a dead topdeck. A thing that this deck can't afford.

Sundering Vitae is best. Period. Some additional stuff:

Often dodges counterbalance.

Can be played when "tapped out" or when blocking.

That's it. Play Sundering Vitae.

[Wallace]

Sundering Vitae is the solution. You'll never get to three mana in green stompy, so Krosan Grip has a much greater chance of being a dead topdeck. A thing that this deck can't afford.

Sundering Vitae is best. Period. Some additional stuff:

Often dodges counterbalance.

Can be played when "tapped out" or when blocking.

That's it. Play Sundering Vitae.


Agreed, Sundering Vitae is a great choice...but at :1::g: why wouldn't you just run Naturalize or Seal of Primodium? Plus seal will add to Enchantment to Tarmo's plate...

[Curby]

Agreed...at :1::g: why wouldn't you just run Naturalize or Seal of Primodium?

Wait, are you agreeing with the Sundering Vitae suggestion? You say "agreed" then seem to push Naturalize/Seal.

I really don't think Krosan Grip is viable in Stompy, though it's probably the best solution in Elves.

Nihil suggested in my Cheap Ass R/G Aggro thread that Seal of Primordium is nice because it dodges discard, and many people are running Duress/Thoughtseize nowadays. However, dropping an early Seal lets them plan around it so it's a mixed bag. Thanks for the suggestions!

[Wallace]

Wait, are you agreeing with the Sundering Vitae suggestion? You say "agreed" then seem to push Naturalize/Seal.

I really don't think Krosan Grip is viable in Stompy, though it's probably the best solution in Elves.

Nihil suggested in my Cheap Ass R/G Aggro thread that Seal of Primordium is nice because it dodges discard, and many people are running Duress/Thoughtseize nowadays. However, dropping an early Seal lets them plan around it so it's a mixed bag. Thanks for the suggestions!

Sorry, fixed It was late and I was tiard...

[quicksilver]

I'd say gleeful sabotage has viability as a burning wish target over hull breach. Other than that it's not that great. If the mana base can support grip I'd run that. For a deck like 9 land stompy where you can't reliably get 3 mana I'd probably just go with naturalize. Sundering Vitae doesn't seem particularly stong since stompy really wants to attack with it's creatures every turn.

[Willoe]

The beauty of Sundering Vitae is that it's free. Almost free. I'm packing it as "super secret tech" against certain decks. It dodges Counterbalance which is huge, and it's pretty good at destroying it. The fact that it can't be hit by spell snare and you can - if you want to - making it resistant to daze by having an elf in play makes it good. Just talking a bit. Use it if you want to.

[mnellsae]

The advantages of using Gleeful Sabotage would be the ability to 2-for-1 the opponent and the ability to dodge any number of Chalices set with any number of counters.


Maybe I don't understand the full rules for Conspire, but will a copy of the spell still have the same mana cost as the original spell? If chalice is set at 2, it would still counter both spells (the original and the copy), right?

[Willoe]

The copy does not become played and therefore, Chalice does not trigger. It's simply copied. For example, high tide players can play around chalice by playing high tide, chalice trigger on the stack, play twincast and watch a high tide resolve. Hm, another example could be shattering spree against chalice. The original gets countered, but you simply pays R for replicate and target chalice again. Boom.