[Discussion] Vexing Shusher in Combo

[Cavius The Great]

I think that Vexing Shusher can find a home in combo decks that run Green. It totally nullifies Chalice and Counterbalance making it a moderately powerful card. I do think it's one of the best cards out of the new set. Does anyone else agree that this card can be extremely viable, not only in combo but maybe aggro as well? What are your thoughts on this new card?

[Silverdragon]

Vexing Shusher actually is amazing at making your Tooth and Nail uncounterable. I have a deck build that I think is going to rip the metagame right apart but I'll wait with posting until I've top8'ed a tournament with it so you'll take it serious.

Shusher is also not bad in Stormcombo if you have to invest into a hellbent Infernal Tutor for example or need your Orim's Chant to go through. I think it'll be weaker in Aluren or Breakfast style combo as decks like these already have lots of ways to work around counterspells.

[revenge_inc]

Since it's CtG Day, I'll play ball. Name a few of the "combo deck that run Green" that you are referring to.

[YuanTi]

Since it's CtG Day, I'll play ball. Name a few of the "combo deck that run Green" that you are referring to.

Aluren
Um, TES has green mana I guess...

I'm done.

[J.V.]

TES also has red... which is why Shusher will be good in TES. :wink: Apparently people forgot that Shusher CC and ability both are r/g splits.

[Silverdragon]

Also don't forget Belcher. It can easily cast Shusher however the question here becomes 'does it really want to?' for which I think the answer is no so I didn't mention it in my first post.

[revenge_inc]

Vexing Shusher actually is amazing at making your Tooth and Nail uncounterable.
How do you get to 9 mana + Vexing Shusher mana in a single turn? Even with manamorphose I need to see a really solid list before I could believe the viability of T&N.


Aluren
Um, TES has green mana I guess...
I'm done.

Fair enough. If Cavius wants to suggest Vexing Shusher in Aluren then he should say so and post it in the Aluren thread. It's already being talked about in the TES thread. I just don't see where he is going with this.

[freakish777]

Aluren
Um, TES has green mana I guess...

I'm done.


YOUZ FORGAT TEH BELCHRE!! CAUSE LANZDF GRANTYS TAPPS FER GREEN SAUZCE!%R$T$%EW)

[Bardo]

Wow, this is going down hill fast. Shape it up or watch it close.

[Silverdragon]

How do you get to 9 mana + Vexing Shusher mana in a single turn? Even with manamorphose I need to see a really solid list before I could believe the viability of T&N.


It's only 10 mana but it was a joke anyway. I thought my "breaking the format" comment made that obvious but maybe my more serious answer right thereafter helped disguise it.
So for all who care I'll still try to break Tooth and Nail however I don't think I'll use Shusher and I do not have a decklist yet :D

[Lothian]

Well,

That guy for me would just go straight to a ***** sideboard.

If we consider ***** is ruling the tempo thanks to its 12 counters, so why would it not be perfect in the mirror?

plus it's a rather good beater anyway. In the worse case that would divert few stp or else from your own tarmo.

Again in gob in the sideboard. That would make 12 potential anti-counter with vial and lackey.

With the difference it can't be forced.

I wonder if that card, if played, won't see force out of the format...

[Cavius The Great]

Another deck you can fit Shusher in is Spanish Inquisition with maybe additional Spirit Guides. Shusher helps you play around Chalice as well as Counterbalance which are a couple of the deck's banes. More so, Chalice becuase SI can probably go off before Counterbalance is setup.

[Pinder]

More so, Chalice because SI can probably go off before Counterbalance is setup.

Although, if they have to fight Chalice first, they might not be able to get going before CB comes down.

Of course, at :r::r:, is Shusher even as efficient as Shattering Spree for dealing with Chalice? You can't BWish for Shusher.

[Bryant Cook]

SI doesn't even play red. The version sites does, but doesn't play enough to support RRR.

[Cavius The Great]

SI doesn't even play red. The version sites does, but doesn't play enough to support RRR.

You can cast it off both red or green. And yes, B.C.'s version plays 3 simian spirit guide for EtW.

[Bryant Cook]

You can cast it off both red or green. And yes, B.C.'s version plays 3 simian spirit guide for EtW.

Like I said, SITES plays red, not enough to support RRR. Are you going to draw and play all 4 cards to make one uncounterable? I think not. The deck only plays 2-3 red lands if that.

[Cavius The Great]

Like I said, SITES plays red, not enough to support RRR. Are you going to draw and play all 4 cards to make one uncounterable? I think not. The deck only plays 2-3 red lands if that.

B.C.'s version isn't SITES. and it also runs Bayous which makes it even more castable.

[raharu]

2 lands and roughly 4 'ritual' sources to cast it off of and use its ability. Sounds like not a combo. If you really think it's any sort of viable in SI, try fitting it into Breathweapon's BG build, considering it's almots 70% mana, doesn't really have a game past turn 4 (from what I've seen) against disruption, and runs quite a few G mana sources/ ways to get to them. I still think it's not a good card for combo considering all of the better alternatives. It's a board card for agro, at most.

[Pinder]

B.C.'s version isn't SITES. and it also runs Bayous which makes it even more castable.

Ah, I didn't realize that SI ran green. For some reason I thought it was :b::r:. My mistake.

Still though, if it runs green, is Shusher a better answer to Chalice and CB than Grip? It just seems that, in either of Shusher's colors, there are better ways to deal with threats to combo.

[BreathWeapon]

Belcher and/or SI can't run Vexing Shusher, neither deck has enough permanent mana sources to make use of the card.

[TeenieBopper]

Instead of playing Vexing Shusher, shouldn't combo decks just win instead?

[Bryant Cook]

Instead of playing Vexing Shusher, shouldn't combo decks just win instead?

Mike, you're my teammate and everything, that's great. But sometimes you are just annoying/ignorant when it comes to logic. Combo decks can't always win on turn one and they can't always plow through counterbalance and Force. Vexing Shusher is there to help you for these times.

[TeenieBopper]

Wait a minute. Aren't you the one arguing against Vexing Shusher?

Look, I understand that combo can't always go off on turn one, or plow through counters. That's what Abeyance and/or Orim's Chant are for. Seems to me they do pretty much the same job, for cheaper/easier mana costs, too. W and 1W are a whole lot easier to make than RRR or GGG or any combination thereof.

[Bryant Cook]

Wait a minute. Aren't you the one arguing against Vexing Shusher?

Look, I understand that combo can't always go off on turn one, or plow through counters. That's what Abeyance and/or Orim's Chant are for. Seems to me they do pretty much the same job, for cheaper/easier mana costs, too. W and 1W are a whole lot easier to make than RRR or GGG or any combination thereof.

No, I'm arguing for it. Just not in SI and Belcher. It's nothing short of amazing in TES because you have permanent reusable mana sources.

RW uncounterable Orim's Chant wins games, where as if that Chant gets countered they have spell snare/stifle/more forces/Daze. Not to mention Orim's Chant by itself doesn't get around counterbalance. It rarely costs RRR or GGG. In testing I've usually played it the turn before going off.

[Lego]

Wait a minute. Aren't you the one arguing against Vexing Shusher?

Look, I understand that combo can't always go off on turn one, or plow through counters. That's what Abeyance and/or Orim's Chant are for. Seems to me they do pretty much the same job, for cheaper/easier mana costs, too. W and 1W are a whole lot easier to make than RRR or GGG or any combination thereof.

The problem is that even after you Chant your opponent, you still lose completely to CounterTop. Even if you Abeyance them, blind Counterbalance will often ruin your day. Plus, an active Counterbalance can stop either Chant or Abeyance from resolving.

[Bryant Cook]

Testing in TES has shown, the card is what some people call "The tits".