[HELP] fixing an undeveloped metagame

[Thehunter820]

OK so down here in Azle, Texas, the Magic game really sucks. We had a small tournament today, no one came and it ended up being a six person tournament. Here are the decks:

Burn by Thehunter820
Mountain x16
Barbarian Ring x2

Street Wraith x4
Keldon Marauders x3

Lightning Bolt x4
Rift Bolt x4
Lava Spike x4
Chain Lightning x4
Magma Jet x4
Fireblast x4
Mishra's Bauble x4
Flame Rift x4
Price of Progress x3

Sideboard:
Sulfuric Vortex x3
Pyrostatic Pillar x4
Shattering Spree x4
Flamebreak x4


UGwr CounterTop Threshold by Internet Hate Machine
Werebear x2
Tarmogoyf x2
Nimble Mongoose x4

Force of Will x4
Daze x3
Counterbalance x3

Ponder x4
Brainstorm x4
Predict x4

Swords to Plowshares x4
Oblivion Ring x3

Sensei's Divining Top x3
Pyroclasm x3

City of Brass x4
Breeding Pool x3
Steam Vents x1
Terramorphic Expanse x4
Island x2
Forest x1
Plains x1
Mountain x1

Sideboard
Mystic Enforcer x1
Hoofprints of the Stag x1
Trygon Predator x3
Gaddok Teeg x2
Serenity x2
Krosan Grip x2
Blue Elemental Blast x4


Eternal Forest by scrub1(or as everyone else calls it, Eternal Failfest)
Forest x20
Plains x10
Rebuff the Wicked x2
Razorgrass Screen x1
Might of Old Krosa x1
Edge of Autumn x1
Resurrection x1
Loxodon Stalwart x1
Amrou Scout x1
Petrified Plating x1
Stasis Cocoon x1
Thornweald Archer x1
Llanowar Augur x1
Strength in Numbers x1
Molder x1
Avoid Fate x1
Children of Korlis x1
Duskrider Peregrine x1
Creeping Mold x1
Dawns Reflection x1
Return to Dust x1
Durkwood Baloth x1
Kavu Primarch x1
Harmonize x2
Spirit Loop x1
Wall of Roots x1
Essence Warden x1
Jolrael's Centaur x1
Predator's Strike x1
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant x1


Mono-Red Goblins by berto el con
Clickslither x1
Goblin Cohort x3
Bogart Shenanigans x1
Goblin Sledder x1
Ib Halfheart x1
Skirk Shaman x1
Goblin Burrows x1
Goblin King x3
Akki Avalanchers x4
Gempalm Incerator x1
Caterwauling Boggart x2
Skirk Drill Sergeant x1
Tarfire x4
Mogg War Marshal x3
Skirk Prospector x1
Reckless One x1
Siege Gang Commander x1
Goblin Matron x1
Goblin Warcheif x1
Sparksmith x1
Mogg Fanatic x1
Skirk Fire Marshal x1
Goblin Ringleader x1
Raging Goblin x3
Goblin Lookout x2

Sideboard
Mana Clash x1
Akki Coalflinger x1
Cackling Club x1
Grab the Reins x1
Accelerate x1
Firebreather x1
Goblin Snowman x1
Seal of Fire x2
Flash of Defiance x1
Mogg War Marshal x1
Thick Skinned Goblin x1
Goblin Striker x1
Reckless one x1
Vivid Crag x1


GR Boost Em' Up by scrub3 played by scrub4
Ronin Houndmaster x4
Lava Spike x2
Giant Growth x3
Volcanic Hammer x2
Shock x4
Seal of Fire x2
Needle Drop x1
Bloodrock Cyclops x4
Brute Force x4
Hidetsugu's Second Rite x3
Spark Elemental x1
Fatal Frenzy x1
Earthbrawn x2
Thunderbolt x1
Pyroclasm x1
Birds of Paradise x1
Incinerate x4
Skarrg, the Rage Pits x1
Mountain x10
Forest x9


Cheat on the Church(B/w Clerics) by scrub3
Vivid Meadow x4
Hymn to Tourach x1
Thorn of Amethys x1
Vile Deacon x2
Terramorophic Expanse x4
Ivory Mask x1
Edgewalker x2
Oblivion Ring x4
Terror x3
Battletide Alchemist x2
Castigate x1
Doubtless One x2
Angel's Grace x1
Children of Korlis x3
Ghastly Demise x2
Daru Spiritualists x3
Beloved Chaplin x3
Ajani Goldmane x1
Vivid Marsh x1
Soul Warden x2
Benelish Visionary x2
Solitary Priest x2
Solitary Moni x1
Swamp x7
Plains x4

The rankings were:
Internet Hate Machine - 4 color thresh
Thehunter820 - burn
scrub2 - goblins
scrub3 - clerics
scrub4 - Boost Em' Up
scrub1 - Failfest

With the exception of "Eternal Failfest" these are pretty much the best decks in our local meta, excluding whatever random pile Raharu is piloting and Giant Growth's enchantress build since they werent present at all. With all of us from team battletoads stuck here we naturally try to improve our local scrubs for more play that requires more than 10% of our brain cells, however there is a problem. None of the scrubs will listen to our advice.

None of us really have money to drop on tournaments all the time but the few competent players are sick of playing each other. So I guess ultimately my main question is this, what are some decent, maybe not even legacy viable, but decent, cheap deck ideas that will be attractive to the type of person who likes to play "Boost Em' Up" so we can fix our local metagame down here at least a little? Also has/is anyone else here at the source had/having the same problem? Being stuck in a local metagame with a decent number of players and nobody worth playing is cockballs.

[Zach Tartell]

I feel like your decks need more 1-ofs to improve beyond their current state.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Basically you guys need to make them buy playsets of good cheap cards and build decks around simple archetypes.


Burn by Thehunter820
Mountain x16
Barbarian Ring x2

Street Wraith x4
Keldon Marauders x3

Lightning Bolt x4
Rift Bolt x4
Lava Spike x4
Chain Lightning x4
Magma Jet x4
Fireblast x4
Mishra's Bauble x4
Flame Rift x4
Price of Progress x3

Sideboard:
Sulfuric Vortex x3
Pyrostatic Pillar x4
Shattering Spree x4
Flamebreak x4

Some specific choices are debatable but this list is fine.


UGwr CounterTop Threshold by Internet Hate Machine
Werebear x2
Tarmogoyf x2
Nimble Mongoose x4

Force of Will x4
Daze x3
Counterbalance x3

Ponder x4
Brainstorm x4
Predict x4

Swords to Plowshares x4
Oblivion Ring x3

Sensei's Divining Top x3

City of Brass x4
Breeding Pool x3
Steam Vents x1
Terramorphic Expanse x4
Island x2
Forest x1
Plains x1
Mountain x1

Sideboard
Mystic Enforcer x1
Hoofprints of the Stag x1
Trygon Predator x3
Gaddok Teeg x2
Serenity x2
Krosan Grip x2
Blue Elemental Blast x4

Glad to see you got some shock lands, but why the red splash for 0 red cards? Also 56 card decks are busted.


Eternal Forest by scrub1(or as everyone else calls it, Eternal Failfest)


Deck is awful.


Mono-Red Goblins by scrub2
Clickslither x1
Goblin Cohort x3
Bogart Shenanigans x1
Goblin Sledder x1
Ib Halfheart x1
Skirk Shaman x1
Goblin Burrows x1
Goblin King x3
Akki Avalanchers x4
Gempalm Incerator x1
Caterwauling Boggart x2
Skirk Drill Sergeant x1
Tarfire x4
Mogg War Marshal x3
Skirk Prospector x1
Reckless One x1
Siege Gang Commander x1
Goblin Matron x1
Goblin Warcheif x1
Sparksmith x1
Mogg Fanatic x1
Skirk Fire Marshal x1
Goblin Ringleader x1
Raging Goblin x3
Goblin Lookout x2

Deck is awful (looks like the goblin side of Goblins v Elves set) but can be improved. He needs to get 4 Aether Vial, 4 Matron, 4 Chief, 4 Ringleader, 4 Fanatic, a few more Incinerators, and another SGC. That way the deck would be halfway there without breaking the bank. Something like:

4 Vial

4 Matron
4 Chief
4 Ringleader
4 Fanatic
3 Incinerator

4 War Marshall
4 Prospector

2 SGC

2 Tinkerer
1 Sparksmith
1 King

2 Burrows
2 Ancient Tomb
19 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Pyroblast
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 King




GR Boost Em' Up by scrub3 played by scrub4
Ronin Houndmaster x4
Lava Spike x2
Giant Growth x3
Volcanic Hammer x2
Shock x4
Seal of Fire x2
Needle Drop x1
Bloodrock Cyclops x4
Brute Force x4
Hidetsugu's Second Rite x3
Spark Elemental x1
Fatal Frenzy x1
Earthbrawn x2
Thunderbolt x1
Pyroclasm x1
Birds of Paradise x1
Incinerate x4
Skarrg, the Rage Pits x1
Mountain x10
Forest x9


Again, awful but R/G is easy to improve (does this guy not know about Lightning Bolt WTF?) Make IHM lend this guy his Dryads so he can play budget Dryad sligh.

4 Dryad
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Fanatic
4 Kird Ape
3 Tin Street Hooligan

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fireblast
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
4 Incinerate
3 Lava Spike

10 Mountain
7 Forest
3 Terramorphic Expanse

Side
4 Pyroblast
3 Grip/Naturalize
2 Crypt
3 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Price of Progress





Cheat on the Church(B/w Clerics) by scrub3

This deck sucks at well. He might try converting it into Life.dec as it wouldnt be horribly expensive, and would give you guys a combo deck to play against.


Sui black would be an excellent deck to build for you guys. It's cheap and effective.

4 Ritual
4 Hymn
4 Duress
4 Smallpox
4 Snuff Out
4 Hyppy
4 Stromgald Crusader
3 Ashermoor Gouger
4 Carnophage
4 Tombstalker
2 Shriekmaw
19 Swamp

4 Planar Void
4 Mind Wrench
3 Perish
4 Engineered Plague

The sui list sucks because it's rushed, but I have to go. Ill add something later if I think of anything.

EDIT: Change stuffs. Also I think Tombstalker is doable. I got a playset shipped for $10, on ebay a few weeks ago.

[frogboy]

1. If you're not nice to these people, they will go away. Losing can be fun if the atmosphere is decent, but if they're just getting made fun of constantly they're gonna be like "fuck this" and go back to the kitchen table.

2. None of those decks look particularly high-powered, even yours; if I had to play some budget concoction it would probably involve a lot of small, efficient beaters and a lot of burn spells. You might try introducing people to Affinity, and get them to try Jitte in their aggro decks. But you can't just force people to play better decks.

[Cait_Sith]

If you are desperate, here are some tips:

Lorwyn has a lot of cheap, decent, weenies. Combine with some of the nicer Legacy cards and enjoy.

Make sure to always be friendly. The more the people like simply PLAYING with your, the more likely they are to come. The more often they come, the more likely they are to build better decks.

Offer good prizes as an incentive to work harder.

Try to avoid decks that can punish a wide variety of strategies. Most people do not like running into Stax, Dragon Stompy, or even Jokul.dec. Also, avoid fast combo decks that leave people cross eyed while you win all the games in under 10 minutes.

Encourage good deck building procedure, like multiples of cards.

Hope that helps.

[raharu]

All good sugestions guys, thanks for the help. I have playsets of a decent number of those cards right now, so I'll amass my supplies with GiantGrowth and help 'em out monday.

@ Cait Sith: what creatures from Lorwyn, exactly? Offhand I can't think of anything, but I'm not exactly intimate with that set (I generally read and memorize most cards that I see/ read the spoiler for, but I'm not a fan of tribal, and thus didnt read the spoiler). What are a few archetypes that that work well with those cards, legacy-esque or oterwise? Any and all advice is apreciated.

[MattH]

Kithkin deck could work.

10 land stompy is always real fun for these types of players. Attacking for 7 on turn 2 is a big prize.

[raharu]

Monowhite Kithkin, or a splash for something that's a little more interactive? Perhaps black for Duress/ Castigate and Hymn/ Wretch Mind (I have playsets of Castigate and Wretch Mind, hence why I mention them)? Blue for some sort of draw suite since Kithkin lack a Ringleader (I'm thinking of Foresight, even though it's a sorcery :frown:)? The core creature base would most likely look like this (rough list):

Goldmeadow Salwart x4
Cenn's Tactition x4
Ballyrush Banneret x3
Cenn's Heir x4
Wizened Cenn x4
Preeminent Captian x4
Thoughtweft Trio x2-3

That's something to start with, I presume, and few of the cards in the deck deck are over a dollar a card (only the Captian when I checked), and, assiming as one should, it would at least make the player building it pick up 4x StP, which is never a bad thing to have a new player do.

Any other deck ideas? Thus far I think it won't be that hard to get the "Boost 'em Up" (the names were made on the spot of the tournament, if you couldn't tell :laugh:) playing monkey's Dryad Sligh in a quick manner, the goblins kid to play kithkin (already has 4x Oblivion Ring and 2-3x Knight of Meadowgrain, both will most likely find a home in the deck), and the clerics player into budget SuiBlack (although the creatures may prove annoying to come by).

What is the best deck t ouse if you want a player to learn about CA and good blocking? I don't want to throw too much at the players in question, but it seems like budget decks are all agro. I'm at a loss for ideas.

[xsockmonkeyx]

the clerics player into budget SuiBlack (although the creatures may prove annoying to come by).

Which creatures in particular? Im pretty sure I have an extra playset of Spectres lying around somewhere, or at least a couple extra. Also have some Kird Apes, Fireblasts, Rituals and a couple Hymns if you guys want them.

[Internet Hate Machine]

Glad to see you got some shock lands, but why the red splash for 0 red cards? Also 56 card decks are busted.

Its 57 as he posted it, but it should be noted that he missed the 3x pyroclasm. That fixes both problems. :cool:

[GiantGrowth]

I guess I should post here too.


1. If you're not nice to these people, they will go away. Losing can be fun if the atmosphere is decent, but if they're just getting made fun of constantly they're gonna be like "fuck this" and go back to the kitchen table.


Make sure to always be friendly. The more the people like simply PLAYING with you, the more likely they are to come. The more often they come, the more likely they are to build better decks.

I think these really hit the nail on the head, IHM and raharu aren't excactaly tactful when letting the others know that their decks and card choices are sub-optimal (I seem to remember several comments about setting fire to zimmerman's elves). Only thing is though, were not regularly hosting these tournaments, in fact this was pretty much impromptu (sp?) and took place in our high school cafeteria.

anyways. after reading these comments, I think our main goal and emphasis should be on posetive reinforcement and trying to explain why certain card choices are worse than others. for example, looking at a (ill admit) completely usless and horrible card in a deck over 60 cards and not saying "OMG why is this in here this is horrible! take this shit out now!" asking nicely why its in there and why dont they just take it out since the legal deck limit is 60.

lastly, while thinking about the bad decks in that tournament, realize that most (most meaning everyone but me, raharu, the hunter, and IHM) haven't ever ordered cards offline, and don't really have a way to. (no job, credit card, parantal permission, ect...) so their entire collections have been hand me down, or from a few packs here and there.

[Internet Hate Machine]

I think these really hit the nail on the head, IHM and raharu aren't excactaly tactful when letting the others know that their decks and card choices are sub-optimal (I seem to remember several comments about setting fire to zimmerman's elves.)

No no no, those comments had nothing to do with how good the deck is, Im just racist/tribist against elves.


looking at a (ill admit) completely usless and horrible card in a deck over 60 cards and not saying "OMG why is this in here this is horrible! take this shit out now!"

Now here is where I run into some problems. When I look at "eternal forest" like lists something just snaps in me... So I guess I can be kind of a jerk to people who pilot things THAT bad. The same goes for all of us though and thats worth noting. I do feel like a "Take this shit out NOW!" is needed occasionally though.

[raharu]

@ GiantGrowth: I tried to be nice at first... but I'm not a patient person :laugh:. I've never said the elves were horrible/ unplayable, just not competitive (and Constant Mists pisses me off when I'm stuck groping for one of my 12 discard effects to deal with it and getting jack :tongue:).

Most if not all of them have access to online sites and cash sources, but they would rather throw money into bad sets such as Morningtide and the forth-coming Shadowmoor instead (almost entirely worthless set ftl). To say that they lack the fund for a decent deck isn't that solid of a assertion either, considering that a good kithkin deck (oxymoron, I know, but flow with it) could be had for a rather small sum of money, same for Dryad Sligh, same for that Gruul mutt that I've been piecing together for casual (which should be quite playable and is going to be insanely cheap, $0.12 for Scab-Clan Maulers, Skargan Pit-Sulks, Seals of Fire, Brute Forces, Giant Growths, $0.50 for Rift Bolt, etc.). Playable decks aren't that hard to come by if you even want one a little bit, and the pilot of Eternal Failfest has a job, internest access (yes, nest, like with birds and whatnot), and an unmonitored bank account (i.e. 'credit card'). It's like he wants to be bad and call it good.

EDIT: @ Monkey: PM me. I'd rather buy the cards though. I'm not one for inequivalent exchanges, it's not like it would hurt to buy them, and I'd rather pay a friend than 'The Man' any day, free shipping or not :p On a side note, I was refering to getting without purchases, which seems to be a hit or miss thing here. Good stuff surfaces every now and then, but the metagame's cardpool is really inconsistant.

[Internet Hate Machine]

Most if not all of them have access to online sites and cash sources, but they would rather throw money into bad sets such as Morningtide and the forth-coming Shadowmoor instead (almost entirely worthless set ftl).

I think Raharu brings up an interesting point here. Could it be that the thing that really keeps people bad is.... wizards?

Booster packs are a pretty piss poor way to gather playable decks.

[raharu]

I think Raharu brings up an interesting point here. Could it be that the thing that really keeps people bad is.... wizards?

Booster packs are a pretty piss poor way to gather playable decks.
Indeed. I've never seen most of them inquire about buying cards online, but they readily buy new packs... I think we've found yet another piece to the puzzle. A few more pieces and we'll be like Syracuse in no time :laugh:.

On a serious note, I think that, for a less eloquent method of phrasing it, assisting them in piecing together the above decks and teaching them how to pilot said decks would be a drastic stride towards improving the average playskill of the 'metagame', if you will. Well built decks, or more aptly, decks that adhere to the guidelines of optimized decklists (no untutorable one-ofs, no two-ofs, mostly three and four-ofs, which increases the redundance of the deck, i.e. you don't think "should I use this Resurrection? It's the only one I have in the deck" because it isn't/ shouldn't be) let the player think in terms of card advantage and good strategy in general because it's no longer slinging whatever 1 of 60 spell from the deck after you topdeck it.

[StarkTheBloody]

I always throw affinity at my friends who are trying to get into the game and be at least a little competitive. The bulk of the entire deck is commons and uncommons.

[Internet Hate Machine]

On a serious note, I think that, for a less eloquent method of phrasing it, assisting them in piecing together the above decks and teaching them how to pilot said decks would be a drastic stride towards improving the average playskill of the 'metagame', if you will.

Well thats the problem isnt it. It seems even trying to force small alterations draws nothing but negative return. They simply want to much to build thier own piles. Maybe a more guiding influence, rather than a forceful one.

[raharu]

Everyone wants to be Cavi and build a deck that'll break the format :laugh:... Ugh, you're right. I think that our srtuggle against the noobs' natural aversion to netdecking is going to be a fight to remember.

We've been guiding. At least I have :tongue:. Well, I think that we have to take their current decks to their natural termination as an established archetype, i.e. Boost 'em Up -> Dryad Sligh, Robbie's soilders -> Kithkin (I guess), etc.


I always throw affinity at my friends who are trying to get into the game and be at least a little competitive. The bulk of the entire deck is commons and uncommons.
Except the Ravagers... I need to finish my playset, I presume. That brings up an interesting thought. Could it be feasable to make decks ourselves to use in instruction so they could see how a variety of well-constructed (if sub-optimal) decks function? Basicly allowing them to see what a deck with rednudancy plays like. Perhaps it would motivate them to built better decks after playing with something more consistant than what they run now?

[Nihil Credo]

There's a shop in Italy (Finibus Terrae) that is trying to kickstart some Legacy south of the Gothic Line as well.

To that end, they are allowing full proxy use until September; from that point onwards, the number of allowed proxies will be gradually brought down to 0. Maybe you could try that approach too.

[GiantGrowth]

internet access + cash flow =\= ability to buy cards online.

have we even talked to steven (pilot of the eternal forest) about getting cards online, he really has no reason not to. except that why would he listen to the mean people that tell him his deck, his hard cards arranged in a specific way that took him who knows how long to assemble and has been tweaking for even longer, is completely useless, horrible and unplayable?

another problem is that we stop at the "telling them they're bad" step, then we don't go into the "heres what you do to get better" step we stay on the first step to long so that when we finally get around to telling them how to get better they don't want to listen anymore, because all we've been saying is "you suck, that sucks, and your cards suck"

the proxy tournament, while slowly reducing the # of allowed proxies is a great idea I think.

one more thing. we need to get them to stop looking at decks on essentialmagic (if they still are)

[xsockmonkeyx]

EDIT: @ Monkey: PM me. I'd rather buy the cards though. I'm not one for inequivalent exchanges, it's not like it would hurt to buy them, and I'd rather pay a friend than 'The Man' any day, free shipping or not :p On a side note, I was refering to getting without purchases, which seems to be a hit or miss thing here. Good stuff surfaces every now and then, but the metagame's cardpool is really inconsistant.

Actually, I was just gonna give them to you guys. I dont need the cards and they are sitting around doing nothing ATM. Lemme see what I got that you guys could use.


Could it be feasable to make decks ourselves to use in instruction so they could see how a variety of well-constructed (if sub-optimal) decks function? Basicly allowing them to see what a deck with rednudancy plays like. Perhaps it would motivate them to built better decks after playing with something more consistant than what they run now?

Yes, basically lead by example. You guys should build some community decks to have around as well so nobody has to pilot a total pile.

[Sims]

Except the Ravagers... I need to finish my playset, I presume. That brings up an interesting thought. Could it be feasable to make decks ourselves to use in instruction so they could see how a variety of well-constructed (if sub-optimal) decks function? Basicly allowing them to see what a deck with rednudancy plays like. Perhaps it would motivate them to built better decks after playing with something more consistant than what they run now?



Broodstar Affinity. It might not be as fast or as efficient as Ravager, but in this kind of situation it's very much playable and allows for a few things: getting used to redundancy of a tuned deck that isn't running all one-ofs, turns on the people who getting into competitive play normally still cling to fatties (broodstar being a cheap one in this case), and it'll give them a solid basis if they decide to buy/tradefor/borrow ravagers... they'll have a chunk of the cards already.


Also, I know this is an idea that many people will hate. But if you're wanting to play legacy and these tournaments aren't sanctioned anyways, if you didn't want to flat allow proxies you could allow them to play with goldbordered championship cards. While i hate those things and the fact that they're still bring printed, it's a good way to introduce people to good cards at a cheap price. You just have to be very explicit that the cards are illegal in a sanctioned play should they ever decide to go to a real tournament.

[MattH]

There's some goofball who keeps trying to sell those world champ cards on ebay. They never get bid on. I must have seen the same listings like eight or ten times by now and I rarely check ebay.

[Ozymandias]

I suggest giving the Eternal Forest guy Enchantress. That way he can have at least a solid framework to throw janky jank jank into.

[Internet Hate Machine]

I suggest giving the Eternal Forest guy Enchantress. That way he can have at least a solid framework to throw janky jank jank into.

Probably too expensive. That's pretty much Giant Growths pet deck, so we only have one playset of the needed cards. Also, I doubt that guy would play a deck like that anyway, he seems pretty much to think fatties are awesome and wants to play some kind of control with a fatty finish. At least that's the impression I get from his decks. It's really pretty hard to tell what kind of thinking goes into building decks like that.

[Ozymandias]

Probably too expensive. That's pretty much Giant Growths pet deck, so we only have one playset of the needed cards. Also, I doubt that guy would play a deck like that anyway, he seems pretty much to think fatties are awesome and wants to play some kind of control with a fatty finish. At least that's the impression I get from his decks. It's really pretty hard to tell what kind of thinking goes into building decks like that.

In that case, perhaps monblack Pox might work?

Not too expensive, and probably competitve.

[Internet Hate Machine]

In that case, perhaps monblack Pox might work?

Not too expensive, and probably competitve.

That is an idea, I bet we could get the parts for that one together.

[Ozymandias]

Another cheap deck idea would be one of the innumerable flavors of LED-based combo floating around, if you have the LEDs. Aside from the LEDs, Dredge, Belcher, and SI can be built for under 100 dollars.

[raharu]

internet access + cash flow =\= ability to buy cards online.

So what does it require? A membership and permission from George Bush?


have we even talked to steven (pilot of the eternal forest) about getting cards online, he really has no reason not to. except that why would he listen to the mean people that tell him his deck, his hard cards arranged in a specific way that took him who knows how long to assemble and has been tweaking for even longer, is completely useless, horrible and unplayable? another problem is that we stop at the "telling them they're bad" step, then we don't go into the "heres what you do to get better" step we stay on the first step to long so that when we finally get around to telling them how to get better they don't want to listen anymore, because all we've been saying is "you suck, that sucks, and your cards suck"

On a side note, I've been helping Steven with his decks for a long time and making sugestions, but he doesn't ever really follow through with anything. It's not that I don't tell how to better the deck, it's that he doesn't better it.


the proxy tournament, while slowly reducing the # of allowed proxies is a great idea I think.

Seconded.


one more thing. we need to get them to stop looking at decks on essentialmagic (if they still are)

Again, seconded.

[Cait_Sith]

Everyone wants to be Cavi and build a deck that'll break the format :laugh:... Ugh, you're right. I think that our srtuggle against the noobs' natural aversion to netdecking is going to be a fight to remember.

I built and designed a MWC deck for T2 without using the net for anything relevant other than showing it to a few friends and the occasional win on MWS. The deck has consistently tied for 1st at FNM for months now.

Just because they refuse to use the internet doesn't mean that it is bad. As long as they have good deckbuilding skills the internet serves more as a place to improve current decks, as opposed to taking whole lists.

[Thehunter820]

Hmm, good suggestions, and yes I had forgotten the 3x pyroclasm from IHM's list. I also think we should print out some(most) of the required reading articles and let them read those, tell them never to go on essential, and tell them to come read the talk on the source.

[berto_el_con]

Hi, i am the "scrub2" from the "tournament" that we had (it was more or less paying hunter and IHM to play with us), and i do have to say that the only reason my deck appears to be the goblins half of the EvG deck set is that it is only with a little added from when i bought a portion of IHM's collection to pay for his current decks.
Also I usually take the advice I am given as long as I can get what I need w/o ordering, which is probably why i got third and beat IHM in one game.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Hello scrub#2, welcome to the Source.

I think you should keep building your goblins deck. There are some very simple improvements you can make that will dramatically increase the power of your deck. The most obvious thing is to bring down the number of 1's in your deck by finishing playsets of the broken goblins. Priority #1 is to beg/borrow/steal 4 Aether Vials. That card alone will win you more games than any other. Also find 3 more Matrons ASAP as these are cheap and will up your consistency a great deal. If you have matrons then you have tons of more options and helps to overcome the fact that you have singleton Ringleader and Chief at the moment. After that you should get 3 more Ringleaders because the card is busted, and will win you tons of games just casting/vialing the guy in all day. It might set you back a few dollars but he's really the one of the best investments you can make. Then start working on 3 more Fanatics, and 3 Warchief because these are the other power goblins that you absolutely need. At this point your deck will be vastly improved and you can start working in smaller things like more Incinerators, some artifact kill (Tinkerer), and another Siege Gang which are not too costly and up your utility a great deal. Goblin Lackey and Piledriver are expensive, but you can use Skirk Prospector and Mogg War Marshall as inexpensive analogs to round out your lineup. Also maybe add some Ancient Tombs to speed you up. It's not unreasonable that you could do all this for ~$25.

After that the sky's the limit. You can continue to improve upon your deck by adding Wastelands, Lackeys, Piledrivers, a Sharpshooter, splash colors, etc. or leave it how it is and try to win off the strength of your goblins. Given the the current meta you would stand a good chance to mop the floor with the other decks and start to win back that money from IHM and Hunter.

EDIT: Ill send along some Tinkerers and 3 Prospectors to rarahu. I think I might have an extra Incinerator too.

[Internet Hate Machine]

Hi, i am the "scrub2" from the "tournament" that we had (it was more or less paying hunter and IHM to play with us), and i do have to say that the only reason my deck appears to be the goblins half of the EvG deck set is that it is only with a little added from when i bought a portion of IHM's collection to pay for his current decks.
Also I usually take the advice I am given as long as I can get what I need w/o ordering, which is probably why i got third and beat IHM in one game.

Quite true. Berto is about the only one who listens to sound advice. IE he doesnt put 69 cards in his decks like some people I know. Good to see you getting on the source!

Also berto, Im trying to get some of camerons gobbos to give your deck a boost. It shouldnt be too hard to borrow his vials and some of the better goblins he has.

[Thehunter820]

I got the goblins player the following today:

Seige Gang Commander
Gempalm Incinerator
Goblin Warcheif
Goblin Ringleader
Goblin Matron

Hopefully that will improve his game a fair bit towards being good and not using cards from mars like Goblin Furrier.

[NeXuS]

My friends and I had been playing at CC's Cyber Cafe in Marlette, Michigan for sometime and my friend got his j1 and we decided to hold a tourney and they called up some people and we ended up with like 12 people in this tourney.

It was kinda like this

Affinity(me)
MUC
Pox
BW Control
Elf combo deck

7 scrubs

Top 8 was like

1. Pox
2. Elf combo deck
3. MUC
4. BW Control
5. Affinity(me) (lost to pox and BW control - bad luck lol)
6. Scrub
7. Scrub
8. Scrub

Pretty much the scrubs got destroyed and never wanted to come back it took us TWO months to get them back.

So basically in conclusion the best way IMO to improve a metagame is to GET new players to come.. its truely the only way if people wont listen to you.

Last october I was playing RU deck with counters, burn, some random creatures and a white weenie deck that was just slapped together.

I listened and got help.

Now im the proud player of Belcher and Affinity.

[vvalentine2311]

ok... 1st of all, berto, fuck you... second, i lost the game. third, the "eternal forest" deck has been revised into the following:

Forest x 11
Plains x 6
Terminal Moraine x 1
Fa'adiyah Seer x 3
Greenseeker x 2
Essence Warden x 2
Evolution Charm x 1
Icatian Crier x 2
Rebuff the Wicked x 2
Resurrection x 1
Llanowar Augur x 1
Strength in Numbers x 2
Gruul Guildmage x 1
Spirit Loop x 1
Duskrider Peregrine x 1
Wall of Roots x 1
Predator's Strike x 1
Might of Old Krosa x 1
Jorael's Centaur x 1
Edge of Autumn x 1
Rushwood Dryad x 1
Rune-Tail x 1
Amrou Scout x 1
Wild Cantor x 1
Petrified Plating x 1
Spike Feeder x 1
Kavu Primarch x 1
Sporesower Thallid x 1
Children of Korlis x 1
Thornweald Archer x 1
Molder x 1
Harmonize x 1
Giant Turtle x 1
Avoid Fate x 1
Razorgrass Screen x 1
Durkwood Baloth x 1
Peacekeeper x 1
Pendelhaven Elder x 1

[MasterC]

So: What's your primary strategy with this deck?
And WHY do you play so many cards only 1x?

First: Define your strategy. Do you want to beat down agressively? do you want to control your opponent? do you want to win by a certain combo?
Second: Look out for the cards that support your strategy in the BEST way and are within your financial possibilities
Third: Play each essential card 4 times, because then the possibility to draw them is higher

So if you have come to an conclusion concerning your strategy, feel free to ask us for good cards to support it.

[vvalentine2311]

So: What's your primary strategy with this deck?
And WHY do you play so many cards only 1x?


Because im running off of a really shitty supply...
the basic strategy is beefy+Life support, so...

[vvalentine2311]

i guess i should really have more spirit loops, and i guess some general beaters as well.
Some more beef up cards... is there anything like a green or white brute force?

[frogboy]

Some more beef up cards... is there anything like a green or white brute force?

Giant Growth. Brute Force is actually a reprint of Giant Growth except in red, not green.

[zulander]

Your metagame needs moar gagomy. 4cereal. I think it would be good.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Your metagame needs moar gagomy. 4cereal. I think it would be good.

But that would cost $9001. Lets try to focus on realistic goals.

@Eternal Forest: I could probably make a better deck out of the cards lying on the floor in my room. Just drop a bomb on it and start working on a new deck.

[frogboy]

@Eternal Forest: I could probably make a better deck out of the cards lying on the floor in my room. Just drop a bomb on it and start working on a new deck.

How constructive. Be nice.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I was being nice.


EDIT: I'll give him some Giant Growths to make it even.

[Ozymandias]

Valentine: What is your budget? I ask because your answer will help me to determine what direction your deck should take.

[vvalentine2311]

k... eternal forest mods have been dropped.
heres the other deck i run:

Rakdos Signet x 2
mountain x 5
swamp x 6
island x 5
terramorphic x 1
drekavac x 2
dread return x 3
vex x 1
Frozen Aether x 1
fiery conclusion x 1
crafty pathmage x 1
mystic speculation x 2
Sage of epityr x 2
demon's jester x 2
Brute force x 2
volcanic hammer x 2
blind phantasm x 3
venser's diffusion x 2
slithering shade x 2
seal of fire x 3
sadistic augermage x 1
deathspore thallid x 1
repeal x 1
mana skimmer x 1
runeboggle x 1
Lyzolda, the blood witch x 1
grafted wargear x 1
aven auger x 1
fugitive wizard x 1
twisted abomination x 1
uthden troll x 1
necromancer's magemark x 1
rift bolt x 1

be honest in your opinions, plz

[vvalentine2311]

What is my budget?

very cheap... bills suck me dry

[xsockmonkeyx]

So, you like Giant Growth and are allergic to money? Fortunately there is just such a deck in legacy, 9 Land Stompy.

Behold:

Make Big
4 Giant Growth
3 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Rancor

Beaters
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Something Pit-skulk
4 Rogue Elephant
4 River Boa
4 Vine Dryad

Manas
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Land Grant
9 Forest

Side
4 Naturalize
4 Winter Orb
4 Leyline of Lifeforce (fuck you Counterbalance)
3 Something

The most expensive card is Spirit Guide. Everything else is about a dollar (except Tattermunge it's price is inflated cause it's new) to pennies each.

[ssilver]

isnt rancor like a $3 common?

[YuanTi]

isnt rancor like a $3 common?

Sure, if you get it off SCG. Which you don't.

[vvalentine2311]

yeah.... thats great but im broke.... hunter bums money off me every day for a coke and it cleans out my wallet. $= 0... literally.

[Ozymandias]

My honest advice, if you have literally nothing to spend?

Save on entry fees for the tournament and don't play them until you can put together a competitive deck with what you've saved. Failing that, the best budget option I can give you is to play at maximum two colors if you don't have anything but basic lands. Also, don't play a lot of singleton cards-it makes your deck less consistient. Play mostly 4-ofs, so that you can get the best feel of how your deck plays, and do better with it, even if it'd be a little less "powerful" without the 1-ofs.

And try and get as many playsets of decent commons as you can from your purported "friends" at the shop. Surely they can spare a Pit-skulk or two?

If you can get a little money, however...

It seems that on a budget of like 5-7 bucks a week, Burn would be the best deck to put together. Even if you don't shell out for Chain Lightning (Literally the only card above 2.00 in the deck.) you can at least get by with Spark Elemental. Good cheap commons are:

Incinerate, Rift Bolt, Shard Volley, Lava Spike, Flame Rift, Mogg Fanatic, and Lightning Bolt are all good.

[xsockmonkeyx]

yeah.... thats great but im broke.... hunter bums money off me every day for a coke and it cleans out my wallet. $= 0... literally.

I'll see if I can track down my other 9 Land Stompy deck from my buddy. If I find it I can send you:

4 Giant Growth
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Rancor
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Something Pit-skulk
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Vine Dryad
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Land Grant
4 Ghazban Ogre

When I ordered the cards for the deck, something weird happened during shipping. The package didnt show up after about 3 weeks, and it was assumed lost so the website resent the order. Months later, I got this beat to hell dirty package that turned out to be the original order, so I wound up with almost 2 copies of the deck. I let my friend borrow the cards, but they're probably just collecting dust somewhere. If I can find it it's yours.

EDIT: In the mean time, can you make a list of all the cards you have available? That way, it's easier to help make a deck for you. From those two lists there are some ok green creatures and pump, and red has Brute Force and burn, so the deck is looking to be R/G.

[vvalentine2311]

i did have a gruul signet if that helps.
also, i have a significant # of slivers.... but i dont want to be a sliver-runner (sorry if u run slivers)
i have mishra too

No bashing on gays. And be more literate. Verbal Warning---frogboy

[xsockmonkeyx]

I took the cards in your decks and put them into one:

grafted wargear x 1
Predator's Strike x 1
Might of Old Krosa x 1
Llanowar Augur x 1
Brute force x 2

volcanic hammer x 2
rift bolt x 1
seal of fire x 3
fiery conclusion x1

Essence Warden x 2
Wild Cantor x 1
Thornweald Archer x 1
Rushwood Dryad x 1
Gruul Guildmage x 1
Deathspore Thallid x 1
Spike Feeder x 1
uthden troll x 1
Jorael's Centaur x 1
Lyzolda, the blood witch x1
Sporesower Thallid x 1

Fa'adiyah Seer x 3
Harmonize x 1
Dread Return x 2

Rakdos Signet x 2
Wall of Roots x 1
Gruul Signet 1
Evolution Charm x 1
twisted abomination x1

terramorphic x 1
22 land

There werent enough cards for straight R/G so I splashed for black.


Also, get some burn cards from Hunter. Make him pay you back for all those cokes. I just sent him some burn so he should have some extras now probably.

[frogboy]

Save on entry fees for the tournament and don't play them until you can put together a competitive deck with what you've saved. Failing that, the best budget option I can give you is to play at maximum two colors if you don't have anything but basic lands. Also, don't play a lot of singleton cards-it makes your deck less consistient. Play mostly 4-ofs, so that you can get the best feel of how your deck plays, and do better with it, even if it'd be a little less "powerful" without the 1-ofs.

this.

[Thehunter820]

I'm sure I have 10 extra sub-par burns that I can lend him, but my best advice for him would be to stock up some money and buy good stuff.

[raharu]

I think I have another set of Brute Forces laying around the house somewhere, and Battletoadz Sligh is always available to a scrub in need.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I think I have another set of Brute Forces laying around the house somewhere, and Battletoadz Sligh is always available to a scrub in need.

What does BT Sligh look like right now? It might be a better option than stompy.

[Internet Hate Machine]

What does BT Sligh look like right now? It might be a better option than stompy.


Bad, Ill be reveiwing it soon but its amazingly inconsistant and loses to what should be good matchups. It was essentially built by raharu though, so none of us have really had a good look at it excepting him, some additional modifications are probably in order. Im thinking 9Ls would just be better though given the available manabase and cards.

[Thehunter820]

umm BT sligh is something like this:

Terramorphic expanse
Forest
Mountain

scab clan mauler
quirion dryad
kird ape
werebear
mogg fanatic
brute force
lightning bolt
giant growth
rogue elephant
seal of fire

and some other random stuff

[Internet Hate Machine]

umm BT sligh is something like this:

Terramorphic expanse
Forest
Mountain

scab clan mauler
quirion dryad
kird ape
werebear
mogg fanatic
brute force
lightning bolt
giant growth
rogue elephant
seal of fire

and some other random stuff

Exactly... Bad.

[vvalentine2311]

sorry for the comment frogboy, but i refuse to run slivers:mad:

[Internet Hate Machine]

sorry for the comment frogboy, but i refuse to run slivers:mad:

Nobody wants you to. All your slivers are likely sub optimal and you dont have access to cards that make the deck playable like vial, (good) countermagic and disruption, or even SotF. You will likely be best off playing some kind of quick beats deck, like 9Ls, or BT sligh if I ever get around to fixing it.

(EDIT: You should also probably abandon the idea that slivers are "overpowered" or "geh". They only seem that way because you havent been playing decks that can handle the matchup properly, it improves significantly when you have a synergistic deck that can race or some control that does something. For instance, Counterbalance > Tylerslivers.)

(EDIT #2: See the article on "playing to win" in the required reading. It would be quite helpful to you.)

[vvalentine2311]

Make him pay you back for all those cokes.

oh i will... believe me ill make him pay me back.

[Thehunter820]

oh i will... believe me ill make him pay me back.

Umm probably not but good luck with that. As IHM said you could use our sligh deck if you come around more often.

[xsockmonkeyx]

umm BT sligh is something like this:

Terramorphic expanse
Forest
Mountain

scab clan mauler
quirion dryad
kird ape
werebear
mogg fanatic
brute force
lightning bolt
giant growth
rogue elephant
seal of fire

and some other random stuff

Werebear?
Rogue Elephant (+Kird Ape)?
the only burn is Bolt and Seal?

WTF?

That list I posted a few pages back is NOT expensive, just copy it.

[raharu]

Bad, Ill be reveiwing it soon but its amazingly inconsistant and loses to what should be good matchups. It was essentially built by raharu though, so none of us have really had a good look at it excepting him, some additional modifications are probably in order. Im thinking 9Ls would just be better though given the available manabase and cards.
OK idiot, you're the last one who touched the list, and it mulligans terribly now and doesn't goldfish well at all. If you want to blame someone, blame yourself, I'll be mending th epeoblems I've seen with the deck and fixing them tonight.

EDIT: I'll have Giant Growth bring the Fanatics tomorrow and most of what's in the deck is filler. For some reason IHM thought it'd be a good idea to throw in more creature dependent crap like a random Bonesplitter and more Giant Growths, which I've been trying to replace.

[Internet Hate Machine]

OK idiot, you're the last one who touched the list, and it mulligans terribly now and doesn't goldfish well at all. If you want to blame someone, blame yourself, I'll be mending th epeoblems I've seen with the deck and fixing them tonight.

EDIT: I'll have Giant Growth bring the Fanatics tomorrow and most of what's in the deck is filler. For some reason IHM thought it'd be a good idea to throw in more creature dependent crap like a random Bonesplitter and more Giant Growths, which I've been trying to replace.

Oh my god, you dont listen to a word I say do you? I NEVER messed with the ratios, it has the same number of "creature dependant crap" it did before, just better creature dependant crap. Also, saying "it mulligans terribly" is a retarded statement. It just is. The deck has decent draws and it has the EXACT same creature/pump/land/burn ratio as before with the exception of those retarded dryad arbors that never do/did anything except slow you down ... ever. You built it, and if it has been "mulliganing terribly" or having fundamental turn problems blame your own luck, also, your list had 5 seal of fires, so get out please. Ill "fix" the deck as soon as I get all the cards together in one place. Every change I made was based on testing, any problems you are claiming with the deck compared to your old list are simply unfounded.

[Ophidian]

Not to change the topic too much.. but did you guys play @ CBC in Garland last Saturday?

[Internet Hate Machine]

Not to change the topic too much.. but did you guys play @ CBC in Garland last Saturday?

No, we havent gotten out that way yet. I really need to get my hands on at least four fetches before attending a tournament, raharu doesnt even have a deck, and a few of hunters burns are still proxied.

[Ophidian]

No, we havent gotten out that way yet. I really need to get my hands on at least four fetches before attending a tournament, raharu doesnt even have a deck, and a few of hunters burns are still proxied.

I've always got extra decks for people to borrow, and some random cards..

if there's anything you guys need, lemme know.. we usually get 15-20 people a week and are always looking to broaden the player base

[GiantGrowth]

No, we havent gotten out that way yet. I really need to get my hands on at least four fetches before attending a tournament, raharu doesnt even have a deck, and a few of hunters burns are still proxied.

well my only problem now is transportation.


and will you and raharu stop arguing about the deck? do testing, and no raharu, goldfishing doesnt count.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Oh my god, you dont listen to a word I say do you? I NEVER messed with the ratios, it has the same number of "creature dependant crap" it did before, just better creature dependant crap. Also, saying "it mulligans terribly" is a retarded statement. It just is. The deck has decent draws and it has the EXACT same creature/pump/land/burn ratio as before with the exception of those retarded dryad arbors that never do/did anything except slow you down ...

It has Dryad Arbor too? Lulz.

Seriously dont play Giant Growth/Brute Force. Pre 6th edition rules they were good cards, but now you can forget it. The stack pretty much nerfed Giant Growth AFAIAC. Also creature dependent stuff is shitty in general. THe only reason Rancor and equipments get the nod is that they are less likely to be two for ones for your opponent. Just play burn spells, they are infinitely more useful here.

[Thehunter820]

I agree with sockmonkey, but we dont have an extra set of lava spike, raharu may have rift bolt, and if we use chain lightning we still need 7, and they arent cheap, and we're all still buying stuff for our deck so it is cause of some dilemma. Also, seriously you two stop arguing, I'm sure you both agree its terrible, we need to get together, test it out, and decide what goes in.

[xsockmonkeyx]

I agree with sockmonkey, but we dont have an extra set of lava spike, raharu may have rift bolt, and if we use chain lightning we still need 7, and they arent cheap, and we're all still buying stuff for our deck so it is cause of some dilemma. Also, seriously you two stop arguing, I'm sure you both agree its terrible, we need to get together, test it out, and decide what goes in.

Do you have Incinerates? Also, you could play up to 3 Brute Force in the mean time. They are stop-gap IMO but will work better than nothing.

I talked to my friend about 9LS. He says he'll give it back to me as soon as he can remember where he put it. >_<

[Fossil4182]

I would suggest some of these as potential decks for people to use. I'll try to keep the cost to under $100 each to ensure that the decks can be put together with cost not being a huge factor.

Mono Black X:
This can be anything from Hand Disruption, to Black Weenie or MBC. Any one of those decks can be put together on a budget of under $100 and do fairly well. Hand Disruption is probably going to have the best chance to go far, but the others all have their own unique appeal. Cheap stuff like pump knights, the Rack, discard and 3 cc land destruction cards are always good.

White Weenie:
Cheap, small and quick white attackers makes for a fund deck. Its fairly cheap to put together and can be really good. Armageddon, Swords to Plowshare and a few other "Staple" white cards are effective as well and fit nicely into other decks as players amass collections

Burn:
I won't talk this to death, however any sort of Burn deck is cheap to put together and pretty effective.

Secret Force:
This would be a great deck for the Giant Growth player
http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/DDB/secret_force.htm

Other than that, I think the main thing you'll see is that most players who play on a budget or a less experience tend to play Mono Color decks. However, I know in our local play group, we have allowed proxies to somewhat balance out the lack of a decent card pool for some plays and to off set the cost of purchasing some of the higher end cards. Terramorphic Expanse is a card we always toss out to new players a way for players who are starting out to gain access to two color decks. Anyway, best of luck.

[Internet Hate Machine]

Ordered 4 flooded strands today, ordering 1 delta and a trop tomorow, and borrowing raharus delta.

Manabase will come out looking something like this:

2 city of brass
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Tropical Island + 3 breeding pool
1 steam vents
1 hallowed fountain
2 island
2 plains? 2x more COB?

Needs tweaking, but real fetches are going to be a massive improvement.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Ordered 4 flooded strands today, ordering 1 delta and a trop tomorow, and borrowing raharus delta.

!!!


I got the 9LS deck back and, surprise, my other goblins deck was with it! So I have a 9LS deck, 2 Matrons, 2 Ringleaders, 2 Incinerators, and a Fanatic for you guys.

Somebody PM me with an address to send them to. I baleeted my inbox on accidente. :\

[mercenarybdu]

The format still has a lot of cracking to do overall if you put it into the larger perspective like the large amount of cards that are unaccounted for at the moment in viable prototype that are yet to see a large amount of play. If there were to be a Legacy PT we would see them all as the Pros would be heavily focused on finding all of those niches that were overlooked.

Heck even Nassif and Heezy would find them with LSV and Cheon piled in the wagon to reveal them.

I won't talk which cards as there will always be agreements and disagreements with opinion all the time, but overall there is a lot yet to be cracked wide open.

Edit: if you put this format under a highly focused microscope, this format is more or less what I consider "cracker gaming" as people who have broken away from the pack are crackers when it comes to finding all of those under looked things the bulk might have dismissed earlier.

[raharu]

The problem with that is the fact that most, if not all of the cards that are powerful enough to build an engine around are fairly expensive. Perhaps my views are skewed because I play control, i.e. roughly everything worth playing is expensive or not part of what makes the deck work.

[vvalentine2311]

for those who were wondering about my custom deck... i have two good deckbuilders and a couple of ppl who THINK they know what they are doing tinkering w/ it. it is now:
mountain
forest
great furnace (f.s.a.g.)
terramorphic
grizzlies x2
thornweald archerx1
wild cantor x1
trained armodon x2
sealx4!
goblin raider x1
graftedx1
spike feederx1
brutex2
raging goblinx1
elvish warriorx3
hungry spriggan
spark elemental
emberwild augurx2
stingscourgerx2
giantbaitingx2
tattermunge duox2
jorael's centaur
durkwood
etc

[vvalentine2311]

(psp has limited text entry)
rock jockey
taste for mayhem
incineratex2
giant growthx3
might of old krosa
(need pyroclasmx2)