[Deck] Devoted Kraj

[Cavius The Great]

Another one of my janky creations that borderline on being casual/competitive. First off, I instantly fell in love with Devoted Druid after seeing the Shadowmoor spoiler. I then searched for ways to abuse it using the SCG.com search engine searching for counter effects. I then stumbled across Experiment Kraj. I then got ecstatic but then realize that the two card combo couldn't go infinite. To my dismay, I then came close to discarding the whole idea. I then gave the idea a second chance as a three card combo and realized that Doubling Season will make it able for the combo to work. I then considered Magma Mine as a kill condition, but I soon realized that running Chalice and Trinisphere was the way to go, to make the combo even slightly competitive. Here's the untested decklist for your amusement.

Devoted Kraj.DEC By Cavius The Great

Mana:22
4 Chrome Mox
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Tropical Island
4 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
2 Island

Spells:38
4 Quicksilver Amulet
4 Elvish Piper
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Stroke of Genius
4 Experiment Kraj
4 Devoted Druid
4 Doubling Season
2 Braingeyser

Sideboard:15
4 Simic Sky Swallower
11 Random cards

I know what you're thinking. A four card combo!?! That can't be viable. But let me inform you, this combo acts like a three card combo because of the redundancy of the kill condition doubling as draw effects. Once I get my two combo critters in play, it basically acts like a two card combo, even, since I can basically play Doubling Season for free off of the insane mana producing effects of both creatures.

This deck basically produces either infinite green mana or an infinite power/toughness creature once the deck goes off. I can either smack face with a trillion/trillion creature or force my opponent to draw his entire deck.

There are alot of cards that serve as protection as well as accelleration which are two of the most important aspects of making a deck competitive. I run Chalice and Trinisphere along with City/Tombs and Elvish Spirit Guide/Chrome Mox to ensure I'm able to cast something devastating on the first turn.

I also run Quicksilver Amulet and Elvish Piper, to sneak the mana intensive Kraj into play. Chalice basically protects my Piper so I'm not too worried about it's fragileness and the colorless mana requirement of both spells makes my Ancient Tombs and City of Traitors that much more effective.

I hope you enjoy my latest janky idea. Let me know what you guys think and don't flame me to hell too bad.:wink: Thanx ahead of time. Enjoy. :smile:

[Nydaeli]

This looks great. Doubling Season was just BEGGING to be broken, and I'm glad someone's finally done it.

:laugh:

Also, Quicksilver Amulet is great for playing six-mana creatures for eight mana and a card. Four of them is really not enough.

[rufus]

Isn't it easier to work Devoted Druid + Umbral Mantle?

[Cavius The Great]

Just to clarify the rules, does Doubling Season double the amount of -1/-1 counters on a permanent or does this pertain to only activated abilities? If so, this combo might not work.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Just to clarify the rules, does Doubling Season double the amount of -1/-1 counters on a permanent or does this pertain to only activated abilities? If so, this combo might not work.Doubling Season doubles all counters put on your permanents.
If an effect would place one or more counters on a permanent you control, it places twice that many of those counters on that permanent instead.

[Cavius The Great]

Doubling Season doubles all counters put on your permanents.

So this combo doesn't work?

[Sanguine Voyeur]

So this combo doesn't work?No, you put two -1/-1 counters on Kraj to untap it so you can put two +1/+1 counters on it.

[Cavius The Great]

Is there anything that can replace Doubling Season? Such as a continuous effect that occurs whenever a creature becomes tapped or untapped? I'll sure Wizards will print something, if they don't have something similiar already.

Damn Betrayal can only target opponent's creatures and Goblin Medic isn't an activated ability. =P

[rufus]

If you read the cards, you'll find that doubling season only covers effects:


If an effect would put one or more tokens into play under your control, it puts twice that many of those tokens into play instead.
If an effect would place one or more counters on a permanent you control, it places twice that many of those counters on that permanent instead.


But that the -1/-1 counters is placed on the Druid as a cost:


Tap: Add Green Mana to your mana pool.
Put a -1/-1 counter on Devoted Druid: Untap Devoted Druid.


So the combo should works.

Edit: I may be confusing effect and ability...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Wouldn't it be easier to run Priest of Titania and Staff of Domination? They're both quicker and more useful on their own.

[Angelfire]

Thunderbluff 2?

This may be weakest combo deck I have ever seen. It takes 3-5 cards to go off and costs a shitload of mana. In the rare occasion you do "combo" off, the win conditions are very weak, a chumpable 1000/1000 and 6 draw X's which require even more blue mana the turn you go off.

What are your good match ups? Slow aggro that packs no disruption?

[Cavius The Great]

Wouldn't it be easier to run Priest of Titania and Staff of Domination? They're both quicker and more useful on their own.

Then I'd have to run more Elves and less counterspells making the deck suck. I'm pretty happy with my list since I run the minimum amount of elves and have a faster combo approach. The deck can cast Experiment and Druid and unload a Magistrate and the rest of your hand the very next turn. I'm not saying the deck is great, but it has potential. I've thought of running a Natural Order shell which seems a bit more feasible. What do you guys think?

[xsockmonkeyx]

What are your good match ups? Slow aggro that packs no disruption?


Here's the untested decklist for your amusement.

---


I've thought of running a Natural Order shell which seems a bit more feasible.

Seems a lot less convoluted than the current incarnations.

[Cavius The Great]

I can also cast Stroke of Genius on myself, and with the massive amount of mana that will be avaliable, it'll draw me a ton of cards. I don't care what anyone says, Kill Conditions that can also draw you cards are not bad.


If you read the cards, you'll find that doubling season only covers effects:

Quote:
If an effect would put one or more tokens into play under your control, it puts twice that many of those tokens into play instead.
If an effect would place one or more counters on a permanent you control, it places twice that many of those counters on that permanent instead.

But that the -1/-1 counters is placed on the Druid as a cost:

Quote:
Tap: Add Green Mana to your mana pool.
Put a -1/-1 counter on Devoted Druid: Untap Devoted Druid.

So the combo should works.

Edit: I may be confusing effect and ability...

Doesn't effect refer to everything, though? I hope to God that you're right. Someone plz tell me that the original combo still works.

[Cait_Sith]

Ha, I thought so but double checked.

The -1/-1 is NOT doubled because it is NOT put on as part of an effect.

The combo works.

[rufus]

Doesn't effect refer to everything, though? I hope to God that you're right. Someone plz tell me that the original combo still works.

Part of the issue is that it could just be:


If you would place a token into play under your control, put twice that many tokens into play under your control instead.
If counters would be placed on a card under your control, put twice that many counters on that card instead.


Which is shorter and clearly covers everything.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules/MagicCompRules080501.txt
Effects are 416 and costs are 424 (as of May 1, 2008)
As per 416.1 effects are caused by the resolution of a spell or ability.

[rufus]

It's a cute combo, but Devoted Druid + Umbral Mantle is easier and cheaper.
(To go off tap the druid for G, use 2 additional mana to activate the Mantle (untapping the druid, and giving it +3/+3. Tap the druid three times, untapping twice with it's ability, and then reactivate the mantle for the 3rd untap.)

As a bonus, there are other critters that work quite nicely with the Mantle, and most of them work nicely with Stroke of Genius as well...

Chalice/3Sphere Shell in green:

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Tropical Island
4x Breeding Pool
4x Fetchland

4x Chrome Mox
4x Elvish Spirit Guide

4x Trinisphere
4x Chalice of the Void

Combo Elements:

4x Devoted Druid
4x Krosan Restorer

4x Umbral Mantle
4x Intuition/Diminishing Returns

4x Stroke of Genius

4x Pact of Negation

[Cait_Sith]

Mantle gives +2/+2. That is insufficient to sustain the combo and generate mana.

[rufus]

Mantle gives +2/+2. That is insufficient to sustain the combo and generate mana.

Oh, I thought mantle was +3/+3. I guess it's back to Viridian Joiner and Krosan Restorer...

[Cavius The Great]

I'm glad the deck works. I hope that you guys totally disregard Immaculate Magistrate, since Doubling Season is a superior card.

[Cait_Sith]

I am going to say this straight up:

It is okay to build silly combo decks in Legacy for fun. Really, it is. Today I made a Mono-White Enchantment deck that used Opalescence+Enchanted Evening for a Hard lock + wincon. It was fun to play, but not really Legacy material.

Cavius, you need to take a step back for a moment. Try to think about how viable a deck like this could really be. If you firmly believe that it is worth the time and effort and that is does have possibilities, then do some testing and give us some numbers to work with.

If you want to do it as a silly deck, then just do it as a silly deck, just don't go parading it all over the Source like it is the next Solidarity.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

If this idea is so bad, why are you posting?One reason could be that he's telling you to not waste your time.

A while ago I was working on a storm deck that used Greater Good and Phyrexian Dreadnought. Some one said, "How is this better then Aluren?" I realized it wasn't and saved a lot of time by not pursuing it.

[Cait_Sith]

Cavius, I am not accusing you of anything. Rather, I am advising you to put things into their proper perspective.

If you want to kill working on silly side projects, do it. God knows that I won't give up on trying to make Greatest Evening work. However, I also make sure you spend time on serious deck projects. I tested possible updates to 5/3, improved my Mono-White Control Type 2 deck, developed a good working UW Lark build, and other things as well.

You could probably be very good at deck design if you focused your efforts on decks that worked. Learn to appreciate that which is consistently good and learn how to improve it. That will probably get you some serious respect. At least more than you are getting now.

[Cait_Sith]

Look, I am not trying to offend you; I am not trying to insult you. I am honestly trying to help you here. Making funny Lich decks is okay. Looking down at people for not talking solely your word (not even their own experience) as proof of the decks effectiveness is not.

You insist on constant arrogance when it comes to anything you touch, anything you build. Try to humbly accept some of the advice people give you. This deck has no chance of surviving in Legacy and is ultimately a fruitless endeavor. Why don't you show us one of your projects that show promise so we can give you some honest help there.

That way, we can help you improve it before you spend resources on assembling it.

[T is for TOOL]

If you aren't interested in developing the deck, there's no need to spam messages about how awful it is. Just don't post anything. It's very easy, really. Thread is being watched. I really don't want to start handing out warnings over something like this.

[Cavius The Great]

This looks great. Doubling Season was just BEGGING to be broken, and I'm glad someone's finally done it.

:laugh:

Also, Quicksilver Amulet is great for playing six-mana creatures for eight mana and a card. Four of them is really not enough.

Quicksliver Amulet is only in there so that I don't have to pay UUGG off the casting cost of Kraj. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that "four isn't enough", but I do run additional Elvish Pipers to fill that role, as well.

P.S. - I'm glad you like the deck. =)

[insertnamehere]

cavius,
Usually I reserve this spot in one of your decks for trash talking. I will not this time.....

Here is my suggestion for the deck

4 Birds
4 llanowar
4 quirion ranger
4 natural order
4 mox diamonds

expirament krag
cards with great abilities

mix well
bake at 350 for 45 minutes and serve

[Bovinious]

If I were you I would use Show and Tell or Eureka to cheat fattys into play, of course at that point you could and probably should just be putting Akroma or Spirit of the Night into play, but I still think tthose are more efficient ways to cheat stuff in.

[Isamaru]

Dramatic Entrance is so worthless, it seems. Were they trying to throwback to Flash badly?

Sakura-Tribe Elder should go in here so you can sacrifice Kraj for land.

Seriously though, find some better creatures with activated abilities that go well with the deck... there have to be some we're missing.

[Team-Hero]

I'd just go simple and use Cytoplast Manipulator and Kraj. Also, consider adding a Horseshoe Crab to the deck.

[Cavius The Great]

cavius,
Usually I reserve this spot in one of your decks for trash talking. I will not this time.....

Here is my suggestion for the deck

4 Birds
4 llanowar
4 quirion ranger
4 natural order
4 mox diamonds

expirament krag
cards with great abilities

mix well
bake at 350 for 45 minutes and serve

I actually posted an elf build with Natural Order, Immaculate Magistrate and Wellwisher but deleted it, when I found out the originial combo worked. I might test an elf build though.


If I were you I would use Show and Tell or Eureka to cheat fattys into play, of course at that point you could and probably should just be putting Akroma or Spirit of the Night into play, but I still think tthose are more efficient ways to cheat stuff in.

Show and Tell and Eureka are rather bad, especially for this deck. I never want to give my opponent an advantage unless I know I can win the game. It's a decent suggestion nevertheless and worth testing.


Seriously though, find some better creatures with activated abilities that go well with the deck... there have to be some we're missing.

It took me two hours searching to find all the combo peices. Gimme about two more hours. :cool:

[rufus]

Saproling Burst + Doubling Season as a backup plan?
Does Leech Bonder + Paradise Mantle + Doubling Season work?

...If Experimental Kraj copies Patron of the Orochi's ability, do you get to use it twice per turn?