Ordering from CCGHouse.com Went Badly

[The Atog Lord]

When the whole Painter's Servant combo broke, I set out to order some Painter's Servants. So, I looked around and saw who had the best prices. They were mostly at a dollar or so each. I put in a preorder from ccghouse.com, 16 Painters for 99 cents each, plus Shipping and Handling.

I got the package yesterday. It was a yellow envelope sent via USPS, and it contained only my order slip. Not a single card. Just the packing slip.

I called and they insisted that because the price went up they would be unwilling to send me the cards again. They said that the only thing they could do was refund my order. They insisted that they sent the cards, and they must have vanished while going through the post office.

So, I have no recourse. I purchased something, and did not receive it. And they refuse to send it again.

And I wanted everyone else on here to know of my experience.

Rich Shay

[Michael Keller]

If they had done that to me, they'd be out of business.

You have a legally binding contract that obliges them to provide a product or service at the cost you paid, at the time you paid it. Did you buy insurance?

EDIT: I think I am mistaken in how I read that...so they told you they sent you the cards?

[Hightower]

Wow.. That sounds like high class ripping.

Did the envelope have any indication of being opened upon arrival? I don't know if you have any options, you probably signed some "agreeing on shop conditions" and you can't even use a photo of the envelope for anything, since you had to open it to see it was empty.

[Michael Keller]

Wow.. That sounds like high class ripping.

Did the envelope have any indication of being opened upon arrival? I don't know if you have any options, you probably signed some "agreeing on shop conditions" and yo can't even use a photo of the envelope for anything, since you had to open it to see it was empty.

Not necessarily. We all know what it's like getting cards in the mail - you can feel them through the packaging. And if he ordered the amount he said he did, it would be indisputable that someone either did or didn't sift through and steal them. Obviously they felt they were getting ripped off, so if I were you I would take them to small claims court. A judge would surely rule in your favor given the circumstances. They can't do anything about malicious activity when the mail was sent out, but a judge could more than likely see they are undermining their own customers by manipulating not only their customers good will, but placing the blame on the United States Postal Service, as the envelope was in their custody. Let them know how the Magic: The Gathering pricing contours work. Let them know that cards go up really fast upon immediate release, which in turn led them to send you a bogus package with "nothing" in it.

They have lost my business.

[Cait_Sith]

It appears they screwed up badly, or the Postal Service did make a mistake. If they package went sent overseas for any amount of time, it may have been opened by customs and then resealed.

IF it did not, then either there is a thief in the Postal Service ,possible, but unlikely since they would have to open your package to see what was in it, and then realize they could do something with it, CCGHouse screwed up badly with your shipping, or they decided not to sell to you after you had ordered it.

Note that, in case 1, CCGHouse owes you nothing because they did nothing wrong.

In case 2, they SHOULD either give you what you ordered or give your money back. Doing neither is illegal and forcing you to chose one is bad business, but not explicitly illegal in most places.

In case 3, they have clearly violated the contract between the two of you (UNLESS you are under 18 years of age an cannot enter into a binding contract) and would be held liable. The problem is that, the amount it would take to get a lawyer to give you advice on this would typically exceed the worth of the cards by a tremendous amount and you will be lucky, assuming you could even go to court, to try to convince a judge to give you that money.

Servant's now only sell for 4 dollars a piece, so you lost out on roughly 60-70$. Most Courts won't even bother to process that, but see what you can do.

Either way I would recommend you tell everyone you know about this.

Edit: This may sound dumb, but contact the local post master in your area. If you can find something that says that they are lieing, you can often force them into a more reasonable agreement.

[The Atog Lord]

Guys, thanks for the great feedback.

The package looked sealed when it arrived. It contained the packaging slip, but no cards. I don't think that the package looked tampered with.

I'm not going to bother with Small Claims court or anything. That seems like a lot of hassle. What I can do, however, is post here and on TMD so that folks know what happened.

[Sims]

I'm not going to bother with Small Claims court or anything. That seems like a lot of hassle. What I can do, however, is post here and on TMD so that folks know what happened.


This. Take their offer of a refund so you don't lose your 16+shipping and then spam the hell out of every board you normally post on (except maybe SCG because they might frown upon stories of buyign from other places, though they could probably turn it into a good pr campaign for themselves) about the shady practice. Bad rep is serious business.

[zulander]

This. Take their offer of a refund so you don't lose your 16+shipping and then spam the hell out of every board you normally post on (except maybe SCG because they might frown upon stories of buyign from other places, though they could probably turn it into a good pr campaign for themselves) about the shady practice. Bad rep is serious business.
QFT. I would actually post on SCG as well. And post on mtg.com too, so what if they delete your thread a little while later, you'll at least get some views and the word of mouth out there.

[Cait_Sith]

I am saving that for great justice. Or just because it is amazing; you rarely get a quality eruption like that.

In short:

Plan take refund, tell everyone is the best one short of legal action that may result in nothing.

[scrumdogg]

Agreed that is shady & dishonorable, which is one reason I refuse to go to ABUgames any longer. The third time I purchase cards & get a refund because they were 'out of stock' is the last straw. Always with the card in stock on the website (you know, with the count that decreases when you buy them?) except that they priced it wrong or didn't catch a trend. Fuck that and fuck them.

[goobafish]

This is why I prereged my Painter's Servants on Ebay, where I can post negative feedback. It was also cheaper. I will be sure to keep CCG House on my "Do Not Buy" list.

[NeXuS]

This is why I prereged my Painter's Servants on Ebay, where I can post negative feedback. It was also cheaper. I will be sure to keep CCG House on my "Do Not Buy" list.

What do you guys think about creating a MTG The Source offical "Do Not Buy" list we can have certain ebayer and websites on it!

[frogboy]

What do you guys think about creating a MTG The Source offical "Do Not Buy" list we can have certain ebayer and websites on it!

No.

[Brushwagg]

That really sucks. I'll keep away from them.

I'd post this every where I could.

[Bovinious]

Rich Shay? Isnt this the guy who won half a promo Mox Jet last year? These guys screwed over the wrong man menthinks :wink:

[DeathwingZERO]

This seems really hard to believe, at least the way it's worded. I've known the owner of that business for 10 years now, and his inventory/orders guys for a good 6+. It sounds more like an honest mistake, that one of them didn't complete the order, and shipped you an empty envelope. The cards going up in the meantime would be obvious, seeing how many jumped at the combo.

Could you PM me more of the info? Chances are I can get some info out of it, or at the very least speak with the owner directly and let him know this mistake is causing his company some bad reputation. The difference in price of his current charges and your order price is hardly worth the bad publicity to him, I'm sure.

[Bardo]

Dunno. Rich is an extremely stand-up guy and if he says he was screwed, given the circumstances, I believe him.


So, I have no recourse. I purchased something, and did not receive it. And they refuse to send it again.

Not true. Legally, I would seek redress under the uniform commercial code, which governs certain interstate transactions (sale of goods, in this case); if not the seller's own warranty of merchandise (which you should read carefully), which is the first thing I'd pursue.

You have avenues of recourse, it just depends how much you're willing to push.

[Bardu]

Agreed that is shady & dishonorable, which is one reason I refuse to go to ABUgames any longer. The third time I purchase cards & get a refund because they were 'out of stock' is the last straw. Always with the card in stock on the website (you know, with the count that decreases when you buy them?) except that they priced it wrong or didn't catch a trend. Fuck that and fuck them.

I have dealt with ABU before and stopped doing business with them for the exact same reason.

[The Atog Lord]

Deathwing,

Here is what happened. I placed a preorder with CCGHouse.com for 16 Painter's Servants some time ago at 99 cents each, plus shipping. On Sunday I received an envelope in the mail. It was a yellow padded envelope sent through USPS. I opened it to find nothing inside except a slip of paper containing information such as my order number, a listing of cards ordered, and a total charged to me through Pay Pal. There were no cards in the envelope.

I called CCGHouse today. They were polite, but insisted that if I had received a packing slip indicating 16 Servants, then they must have sent the cards. They said that the cards may have been lost as the package went through the postal system. They said that they would refund my money, but refused to send me 16 Painter's Servants, stating that the price of the card had gone up.

I asked the person on the phone if he were certain that the cards had been sent out. He said yes, that they must have been. He again told me that my order would be refunded. I told him to do what he had to do.

I was refunded the purchase price tonight.

I give you this account, Deathwing, with neither opinion nor speculation of my own added. I leave it for the reader to draw his own conclusions. I believe that hearing of my experience would be useful to other readers of The Source.

[DeathwingZERO]

Dunno. Rich is an extremely stand-up guy and if he says he was screwed, given the circumstances, I believe him.

Being that I know nothing of Shay as a person (and only stated the wording made me uneasy as it seemed to insinuate a refund wasn't a viable option), and know the owner of CCGHouse very well, I was skeptical. Given that he knows a number of players that are all over the formats, I'd figure there was more conversation to be had. Not really questioning Shay, more or less the person he was talking to.

I left a message with them about the transaction, and I'm sure once he returns to work he'll probably request some info from me. I am biased in saying he's a friend of mine, but at the same time if his tactics were this bad he'd never had survived or gotten such an abundance of positive feedback over time. The guy knows the trends, and I've never heard of this happening with his store yet. I'm hoping it was just one of his employees not wanting to fess up to the mess because it'd lose them some cash and deplete current inventory.

I can't guarantee that he'd really do much about it, as his work load is pretty heavy, but I don't think he'd enjoy losing out customers on a massive scale from one bad transaction, especially if he wasn't a part of it.

[Versus]

That sucks. There must have been a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. My experience with them was extremely positive.

Two days before a tourney I called asking if they could guarantee a next day delivery if I placed an order now (it was 11am). I told them that USPS website claimed that as long as they shipped it by 2pm it would be guaranteed. They said they don't go to the PO until 4pm with the days orders. I thanked them for their time and said goodbye.

A few minutes later they called me back and said they would make a special trip before 2and did I still want to place the order. I did. Sure enough the next day my cards (including the mintiest Arabian Seredib Efreet I've ever seen) were at my door step. Not only were they there as promised, but the Efreet looked like it was cracked straight from a pack that morning.

[Jak]

I have ordered from CCG a ton because they ship extremely fast and used to have the best prices. I still like ordering from them because they usually have everything I need in stock. Seems weird that this wouldh happen.

[Lifeless]

Picked up a playset set of fwb Serendib Efreet from CCGHouse about a year ago. They looked fine in the picture and were listed as NM in the auction. Turns out that one of them had major water damage and was so warped that it would have obviously been considered marked if I used it in a deck. I contacted their customer service and was flatly told that the listed auction price was taking the grade of that card into account, and that the picture in the auction showed the damage (vaguely, there was 1 picture of all 4 cards, from the front). It wouldn't have bothered me, but selling me unplayable product sucked. I don't plan on buying from them again.

[Hightower]

It appears they screwed up badly, or the Postal Service did make a mistake. If they package went sent overseas for any amount of time, it may have been opened by customs and then resealed.

IF it did not, then either there is a thief in the Postal Service ,possible, but unlikely since they would have to open your package to see what was in it, and then realize they could do something with it, CCGHouse screwed up badly with your shipping, or they decided not to sell to you after you had ordered it.

Note that, in case 1, CCGHouse owes you nothing because they did nothing wrong.

In case 2, they SHOULD either give you what you ordered or give your money back. Doing neither is illegal and forcing you to chose one is bad business, but not explicitly illegal in most places.

In case 3, they have clearly violated the contract between the two of you (UNLESS you are under 18 years of age an cannot enter into a binding contract) and would be held liable. The problem is that, the amount it would take to get a lawyer to give you advice on this would typically exceed the worth of the cards by a tremendous amount and you will be lucky, assuming you could even go to court, to try to convince a judge to give you that money.

Servant's now only sell for 4 dollars a piece, so you lost out on roughly 60-70$. Most Courts won't even bother to process that, but see what you can do.

Either way I would recommend you tell everyone you know about this.

Edit: This may sound dumb, but contact the local post master in your area. If you can find something that says that they are lieing, you can often force them into a more reasonable agreement.

Wow.. Painter's Servant has apparently sky-rocketed..

It sells for ~30-40$ a playset on Ebay now

[freakish777]

Seeing as they sent through USPS, you can always file for mail fraud:

http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx (Merchandise, Failure to Provide)

http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/GetWhatYouOrdered.aspx

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.shtm

Personally, I would take the refund (filing mail fraud and then taking the refund would be frowned upon by the USPS Investigators), and in the event it happens in the future (with any seller who doesn't offer the refund), make sure you file for mail fraud (punishable by up to 5 years jail time and a fine).

[syssc9]

I will definitely avoid buying from CCGHouse, based on this info. Thanks!
MOTL (Magic Online Trading League - www.magictraders.com) used to be the keeper of the Bad Traders List. Dunno if they still do that sort of thing or if they would take this one or not, but it might be worth checking out.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Seeing as they sent through USPS, you can always file for mail fraud:

http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx (Merchandise, Failure to Provide)

http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/GetWhatYouOrdered.aspx

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.shtm

Personally, I would take the refund (filing mail fraud and then taking the refund would be frowned upon by the USPS Investigators), and in the event it happens in the future (with any seller who doesn't offer the refund), make sure you file for mail fraud (punishable by up to 5 years jail time and a fine).
I was just going to say that. This certianly does qualify as mail fraud. You should do it, just for the fun of it

[Mayk0l]

This seems really hard to believe, at least the way it's worded. I've known the owner of that business for 10 years now, and his inventory/orders guys for a good 6+. It sounds more like an honest mistake

Yes but its too big of a coincidence that a deal with such a high profit for the buyer and such a loss for the seller, would get 'lost in the mail' or was an 'honest mistake'. Actually, when I think about it, -the- most simple thing to do for him would be to send an empty envelop, call it an 'honest mistake' and offer a refund.

[Rock Lee]

That's so harsh Rich. I remembered when we were testing Painter Decks on MWS before SHM was out, you mentioned buying them @ 1$ apiece and I was staggered.

Moreso am I amazed that it was CCGHouse who ended up screwing you, as I usually buy from them for high-demand cards. Definitely I will look elsewhere for my goods. Thanks for the heads up!