[Deck] RU CounterBurn

[Natthew]

This is a fairly straightforward deck, kind of based off of threshold. Instead of using undercosted creatures as a win condition, I'm filling it with burn spells. Instead of going for a really quick win, I'm trying to slow the opponent down with counters, and speed my game up with FoF and brainstorm.

Questions:
Should I add more burn? Less land? Blah blah blah. A lot of this isn't thoroughly thought-through, but I tried to keep the mana curve good for Countertop.

// Lands
4 Mountain
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island

// Creatures
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Izzet Guildmage

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt

3 Spell Snare
2 Fact or Fiction
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will

[Mental]

This is a fairly straightforward deck, kind of based off of threshold. Instead of using undercosted creatures as a win condition, I'm filling it with burn spells. Instead of going for a really quick win, I'm trying to slow the opponent down with counters, and speed my game up with FoF and brainstorm.

Questions:
Should I add more burn? Less land? Blah blah blah. A lot of this isn't thoroughly thought-through, but I tried to keep the mana curve good for Countertop.

// Lands
4 Mountain
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island

// Creatures
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Izzet Guildmage

// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt

3 Spell Snare
2 Fact or Fiction
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will

So you think that 12 Burn spells will win you the game, even coupled with draw? UGr Thrash plays 8, and they NEVER burn anyone out, or even get close to without beating them down to, say, 8 first. And don't say Izzet Guildmage will help there. Face it, you run 2, and they a) Suck, b) will die, because your opponents have no other cards to spend their removal on.

[revenge_inc]

So you think that 12 Burn spells will win you the game, even coupled with draw? UGr Thrash plays 8, and they NEVER burn anyone out, or even get close to without beating them down to, say, 8 first. And don't say Izzet Guildmage will help there. Face it, you run 2, and they a) Suck, b) will die, because your opponents have no other cards to spend their removal on.
A harsh criticism, but I happen to agree. There is no way you will be able to burn your opponent out. Any deck that you could burn out because they do so much damage to themselves(like sui black) would have already killed you through speed and disruption.

[Natthew]

That's okay, be harsh as you want. What burn spells would you recommend adding? Lava Spike, Incinerate, Seal of Fire, Violent Eruption, Sulfuric Vortex all come to mind. There's obviously a higher mana curve than with a typical burn deck, so I can throw in some more expensive stuff.
Another thought I had would be a white splash for removal like disenchant and StP and lightning helix. If I did that, I could throw in Ball Lightning, which could work if I StP'd it while its damage was on the stack. Any other suggestions?

[revenge_inc]

It all depend on which way you want to take the deck. If you want to keep the Counterbalance/Top engine I recommend more fast efficient creatures and less burn.

[FoolofaTook]

Cantripping decks with a relatively low threat count probably need the threats to be permanents, so they pay off for the investment put into finding them in the first place. Alternately they can be searching for a combo that wins the game for them when found and deployed.

RU Counterburn decks don't do particularly well when they avoid most of the cantripping and just use the mana they have available each turn to play threats or remain open for counters. Slowing them down by spending mana to find threats and counters just makes them all the weaker unless you can identify a really impactful 16-20 cards that all the cantrips are setup to find. I would argue that there are no red burn spells or blue counters that are worth that kind of investment to find.

[Benie Bederios]

You might want to look in Ugr Dra-gro-Nauts. It uses cantrips and burn to make a big Wee Dragonauts for the win. It also uses Goyf/Quirion Dryad, but maybe it might be somewhat viable if you remove green for additional control/burn.

BB

[Taurelin]

Wouldn't this deck be a good shell for the Swans of Bryn Argoll / Chain of Plasma combo?

You can buy time with CB and counters, kill minor threats with your burn, and when you put down Swans, each burn spell becomes an Ancestral until you find Chains.

[Mordenkaynen]

If you want to keep the Counterbalance/Top engine...
I think if you want to run blue for advantage and counter-magic and red for burn, Isochrone Scepter is more apropriate than c-t mechanic. I'm not sure if this kind of deck can be viable or not, but imagine something like:

ur burning stick

9 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Volcanic Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Spell Snare
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Cunning Wish
2 Fact or Fiction
1 Scroll Rack
3 Ophidian
1 Mogg Fanatic
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire/Ice
4 Isochron Scepter

for cunning wish (look also cards of other colors):
- Blue Elemental Blast
- Brain Freeze
- Fire/Ice
- Red Elemental Blast
- Sirocco
- Stifle
- Echoing Truth
- Echoing Ruin

possible for main:
- Mogg Fanatic
- Grim Lavamancer
- Genju of the Spires
- Genju of the Falls
- Fork
- Fireblast
- Brainstorm
- Misdirection

possible for SB:
- Chill
- Dust Bowl
- Propaganda
- Powder Keg
- Slice and Dice, Pyroclasm
- Tormod's Crypt

[goobafish]

ur burning stick


Not gonna lie, I rofled.

[rufus]

At this point, it really seems like there's enough creature-based draw available in blue that you could run draw critters, Swans of Brynn Agol, Slithemuse and maybe Magus of the Jar. Then you'd want to run Chain of Plasma and Chain Lightning to support the Brynn Agol combo. Since this is 'burn' you'll also want to run Lightning Bolt. The format-typical counters are Force of Will and Daze.

Perhaps you can get somewhere if you start with:

Swans of Brynn Agol
Slithermuse

Chain Lightning
Lightning Bolt
Chain of Plasma

Force of Will
Daze

2x Brain Freeze
2x Stroke of Genius

[Thehunter820]

I've messed around with the idea but here's the only lists i've found that works for me

// Lands
4 Mountain
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island

// Creatures
4 Keldon Marauders


// Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Magma Jet
4 Fireblast

//draw and counter
4 ponder
4 force of will
4 brainstorm
4 daze/spell snare

[Mordenkaynen]

Not gonna lie, I rofled.
) yea, I'm sorry. Because I think about different decks sometimes I name them for myself as it comes to my mind first; and this name is actually a name of realy existent deck. So, do not pay attention to the name.