Type 4 and Such

[Zach Tartell]

I Knowledge Exploitation my opponent, play a spell with Buyback. Can I get it into my hand? It doesn't say "owner."

Additionally, if I Kiki-Jiki my Michestivous Quanar, can I morph down the copy?

[Jaiminho]

I Knowledge Exploitation my opponent, play a spell with Buyback. Can I get it into my hand? It doesn't say "owner."

Yes it does.


502.16a Buyback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities that function while the spell is on the stack. “Buyback [cost]” means “You may pay an additional [cost] as you play this spell” and “If the buyback cost was paid, put this spell into its owner’s hand instead of into that player’s graveyard as it resolves.” Paying a spell’s buyback cost follows the rules for paying additional costs in rules 409.1b and 409.1f-h.



Additionally, if I Kiki-Jiki my Michestivous Quanar, can I morph down the copy?

Yes. It has the ability, so you can morph it down. It will still be a Mischievous Quanar, but it'll be face down, and you will be able to face it up afterwards.

[freakish777]

I Knowledge Exploitation my opponent, play a spell with Buyback. Can I get it into my hand? It doesn't say "owner."


For reference, any card that you are not the owner of at the start of the game can never go to your library, hand or graveyard.

[B.C.]

Yes. It has the ability, so you can morph it down. It will still be a Mischievous Quanar, but it'll be face down, and you will be able to face it up afterwards.

I'm not sure about this. Morph: You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for :3:. Kiki-Jiki: Put a creature token into play that's a copy of target nonlegendary creature you control. To me, it appears that this does not work since it is playing something vs. putting it into play. Can a judge or someone clarify this?

[Zach Tartell]

Nah - The Quanar is face up, I guess. I was just wondering if creature tokens could be turned face down and still do something.

[Nightmare]

I'm not sure about this. Morph: You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for :3:. Kiki-Jiki: Put a creature token into play that's a copy of target nonlegendary creature you control. To me, it appears that this does not work since it is playing something vs. putting it into play. Can a judge or someone clarify this?
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/sc/42.jpg

[Pinder]

Yes. It has the ability, so you can morph it down. It will still be a Mischievous Quanar, but it'll be face down, and you will be able to face it up afterwards.

But does it still die at end of turn if you flip it face down? Or can you amass an army of Mischievous Quanar tokens?

[Van Phanel]

But does it still die at end of turn if you flip it face down? Or can you amass an army of Mischievous Quanar tokens?

It will die. Kiki's ability remembers the permanent, not its state. You won't get more than 2 tokens in play at the same time.

[Zach Tartell]

Unless I have the Holistic Wisdom + Time Stop lock. That works, right? Time Stop doesn't trigger "end of turn" shit 'cause it moves past the phase where that happens?

[yggdrasil]

Unless I have the Holistic Wisdom + Time Stop lock. That works, right? Time Stop doesn't trigger "end of turn" shit 'cause it moves past the phase where that happens?
Time Stop lets you skip everything between the current step and the cleanup step (which comes directly after the end-of-turn step where At-end-if-turn abilities trigger). So the sac-me-trigger wouldn't trigger this turn (since there is no end of turn step), but in the next turns end-of-turn step (which would be the one of your opponent) it would and you'd have to sac the token.
But since the combo doesn't even work (since Time Stop gets removed from game due to its own effect), that's not even really relevant ;)

[Roman Candle]

Time Stop lets you skip everything between the current step and the cleanup step (which comes directly after the end-of-turn step where At-end-if-turn abilities trigger). So the sac-me-trigger wouldn't trigger this turn (since there is no end of turn step), but in the next turns end-of-turn step (which would be the one of your opponent) it would and you'd have to sac the token.
But since the combo doesn't even work (since Time Stop gets removed from game due to its own effect), that's not even really relevant ;)

Time Stop doesn't remove itself from the game. It says all spells are removed from the stack.

[Pinder]

Time Stop doesn't remove itself from the game. It says all spells are removed from the stack.

Time Stop is on the stack when it's resolving, and therefore actually does remove itself from the game. From gatherer:



7/15/2007 Ending the turn this way means the following things happen in order: 1) All spells and abilities on the stack are removed from the game. This includes Time Stop, though it will continue to resolve. It also includes spells and abilities that can't be countered. 2) All attacking and blocking creatures are removed from combat. 3) State-based effects are checked. No player gets priority, and no triggered abilities are put onto the stack. 4) The current phase and/or step ends. The game skips straight to the cleanup step. The cleanup step happens in its entirety.


Interestingly enough, it continues to resolve even though the first thing it did was remove itself and all other spells on the stack from the game.

[Jaiminho]

They do get removed from the game. Since after the effects's resolution it gets put into the graveyard, they never get to do that. The reminder text says to remove them from the game, so there's where they will be.

[Roman Candle]

Oh. My bad. I was looking on MWS, which doesn't have the reminder text.