[Help]ing out the kids. [Archive]

dahcmai

05-27-2008, 07:55 AM

You know I was reading the thread on Undeveloped Metagame and got to thinking that would make for a good idea.

We actually could use a thread devoted to making decks on the cheap so people could hand out the lists to the locals and they wouldn't have a hard time building the decks. Not everyone owns a set of Duals and just about as few own Goyfs or even Ravagers for that matter.

Why not have a list of decent decks that don't cost an arm and a leg to make? I'd definitely hand the lists out to the kids. It seems all they can make is half-asses goblins or bad Burn if you don't help them. I don't see them come up with much else that can even win a game. It's be nice to give them an edge.

I'm a Mr. Suitcase type so I really haven't ever tried to make cheap decks. So list what decks you know that can be made cheaply and still hold up (or at least not die horridly) under a fully healthy Legacy meta. I for one will print them out and hand them out to the kids in my area to lend a hand. We have an extreme amount of good players and I think it would help immensely.

Can anyone fill this stuff in?

A decent list for Affinity without Ravagers
Goblins on the cheap
Can Death and Taxes be done cheaply?
Thresh without the duals and goyf?
Sui black even viable?

Illissius

05-27-2008, 08:27 AM

Here's what I can think of which is relatively inexpensive:

Affinity (expensive: Ravager)
Ichorid (expensive: LED)
Dragon Stompy (expensive: Chrome Mox, Jitte, City of Traitors)
Burn (expensive: Chain Lightning)
Goblins (expensive: Piledriver, Lackey, Wasteland)
Belcher (expensive: LED, Chrome Mox, Burning Wish, 1 Taiga or Stomping Grounds)

(I used "above $4" as the threshold for "expensive", and looked at prices with Datatog.)

Of course, if the criteria is not using any expensive cards, things change, because some of them are critical to making the respective decks functional.

Here's an Ichorid list without LED:

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
2 Deep Analysis
1 Tireless Tribe

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

SB: 4 Darkblast
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Ray of Revelation
SB: 2 Wax // Wane

sunshine

05-27-2008, 10:23 AM

wow I always thought LED was only like five bucks, crazy how much it's gone up in price.

I think the best intro deck for someone who has no legacy staples is a budget Ug thresh build, something like this:

// Lands
7 Forest
11 Island

// Creatures
4 Werebear
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Trygon Predator

// Spells
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Counterspell
3 Portent
4 Daze
3 Predict
2 Snapback
1 Rushing River

Of course the first priority is to fill in the FoW and fetches. While this is certainly watered down, you still get broken stuff like the counter/top engine. Actually I think the tops and counterbalances are the most expensive things in the list, I would be surprised if it cost more than $50 altogether.

Also if a new player is going to invest in a deck I think it's best to go for one for that includes lots of format staples like Brainstorm/Daze/Top/Counterbalance etc.

sunshine

05-27-2008, 10:28 AM

Also if you wanted to make it a little more interesting you could add red to make a budget moon-thresh, you would get lightning bold as well as magus/blood moon both of which are under five dollars a piece.

GreenOne

05-27-2008, 11:40 AM

Here's what i'd play if i was REALLY poor:
// Lands
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
2 [MR] Ancient Den
4 [MR] Great Furnace
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [AQ] Atog
4 [MR] Somber Hoverguard
4 [DS] Arcbound Worker
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MR] Myr Enforcer
4 [AQ] Ornithopter

// Spells
4 [10E] Chromatic Star
2 [MR] Welding Jar/Tormod's
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [FD] Cranial Plating

The entire deck is 21.30$.
Then obviously when you have money you can buy ravagers, needles and the other shit. The deck is totally inexpensive in its core however.

I like a lot the list Illisius posted for a LED-less Ichorid. The deck can really be good anyway without it.

Those two are probably the best legacy decks in power/cost ratio, and can be improved for just a little money.

FoolofaTook

05-27-2008, 11:57 AM

If a person wants any chance to be competitive in a typical Legacy tournament with a very cheap deck mono-black is still probably the best option. There are a bunch of different ways to go in building it but the basic structure of the deck is probably going to be 20 land, 20 creatures, 20 disruption.

This would win some games against the typical metagame:

4x Duress $6
4x Hymn to Tourach $4
3x Diabolic Edict $5
3x Smallpox $3
2x Pox $4
2x Oath of Ghouls $1
2x Nevinyrral's Disk $10

4x Carnophage $1
4x Yixlid Jailor $1
3x Gutless Ghoul $1
3x Lord of the Undead $10
3x Graveborn Muse $3
3x Korlash, Heir to Blackblade $20

19x Swamp $1
1x Volrath's Stronghold $5

Sideboard

4x Dry Spell $1
4x Stromgald Crusader $6
1x Diabolic Edict $2
2x Nevinyrral's Disk $10
4x Engineered Plague $6

$100 even and it would be competitive against many decks. It would destroy Goblins after tuning, which may be the best reason to hand it to a newbie just learning the game, since getting blown out by Goblins in the first round is a pretty predictable thing.

SpatulaOfTheAges

05-27-2008, 12:13 PM

Cheap Enchantress:

4x Argothian Enchantress ($24)
4x Enchantress's Presence ($8)
3x Sterling Grove (6)
1x Sylvan Library (2)
4x Ground Seal (6)

4x Utopia Sprawl (.2)
1x Wild Growth (.05)
4x Gaea's Touch (2)
3x Lotus Petal (10)

4x Elephant Grass (2)
2x Solitary Confinement (4)
1x Seal of Primordium (.05)
3x Replenish (15)
1x Sacred Mesa (2)
1x Choke (.5)
1x Runed Halo (4)

2x Serra's Sanctum (10)

95.8 for deck specific cards. You could run Temple Gardens, and it probably wouldn't make that big a difference; you'd still beat most aggro decks, and it wouldn't lose you an enormous number of games to your bad match-ups.

Illissius

05-27-2008, 12:53 PM

Further options which don't usually see play in Legacy but are cheap and aren't entirely terrible:

Sligh (8 Jackal Pups!)
Suicide Black
Elves (see Dave Feinstein's list (http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=16304), cut Jitte, Garruk, Cradle, and Wasteland)
Merfolk (none of the important Merfolk are expensive, nor is Back to Basics; but you miss out on Force of Will and Brainstorm/Fetchland)

xsockmonkeyx

05-27-2008, 01:53 PM

cloudstrife7

05-27-2008, 02:28 PM

Wow, this thread is almost exactly what I had been looking to start up for some help. I'm looking to start playing legacy on a budget, and I have a couple questions.

I've seen people talk about Merfolk, but I haven't seen a deck list. I have what I think is the core of a beginning merfolk deck, but I have no frame of reference other than kitchen table play (I would have to make cuts of course):
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Riptide Pilferer
4 Tidal warrior
4 Cursecatcher
4 Stonybrook Bannaret
4 Coral Trickster (hasn't been good enough for t2, so I doubt its an inclusion)

4 Daze
4 Echoing Truth
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
1 Pulse of the Grid (so hot on turn 4 with a bannaret and a reejerey in play, also great if I'm losing to control, crappy when I'm winning)
(I've tested permutations of this against t2 elves, ext. Teps, that Dralnu deck that used to rock standard, and my friends use the deck as the early testing ground for wacko combo decks, so no real legacy stuff.)

I wouldn't be opposed to dropping $20 on aether vials and more pulses. I have all relevant 1 mana blue cantrips except ponder, which is cheap. Do I need rootwater thief, grimoire thief, or sygg? I don't have the dual lands necessary to run sygg smoothly.

Here are some other cards I have that could conceivably have a budget shell added to them.
4 Shriekmaw
2 Ghost council of Orzhova
4 Serra Avenger
1 Sword of light/shadow
1 Sword of fire/ice
4 Castigate
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Duress

Would a budget white/black aggro-control deck be possible with these cards? Samurai of the Pale Curtain, Aven Mindecensor, Yixlid Jailer, Spectral Lynx, Burrenton Forge-Tender, Ronom Unicorn, Glowrider, the 2cc pro-color knights, there are about a million budget disruptive weenies in these colors.

Which direction would be more effective with $20-$30 added to it? Would I be better off with the $20 affinity build that GreenOne listed?

Sims

05-27-2008, 02:36 PM

Questions about merfolk, etc.

The original merfolk thread can be found here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8158)

There are a few different directions that you can go with the deck. It can follow a Merfolk/Wizard shell, go straight Merfolk Aggro, play tempo control, etc.... Just depends on what cards you have or have access to. The deck does hurt from the lack of Force of Will in the budget versions but that, sadly, cannot be helped.

Illissius

05-27-2008, 02:50 PM

Well the Merfolk list I was thinking of starts out:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Waterfront Bouncer
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Back to Basics
4 Daze

...and then you really want to add Force of Will but can't. I suppose the list could continue:

4 Spell Snare
4 Counterspell

Which is 36 cards, and you could cut Counterspells if you want more room. You can fill it out with more Merfolk, Threads, Shackles, Jittes, Vials, (some of which cast moneys), or some way to draw cards would also be nice but the best I can think of are Curiosity and Mask of Memory. You could also go with Counterbalance/Top, but those aren't as great without fetchlands and Brainstorm. And then 18-22 basic Islands depending on whether you have Vial (less) and/or Shackles (more). Sideboard is blue Blasts, Crypts, Threads, Submerges, and whatever else you can think of.

EDIT: Seasinger plus all the stuff that makes your opponent's lands into Islands is also worth a look.

Valtrix

05-27-2008, 03:53 PM

Oh, fun. A basic RB combo deck seems to be decent, I played something similar to this at my store for a few weeks, and it actually won a bit more than it lost (surprising, I know). It's not great, but pretty decent for it's cost. I actually prefer niv-mizzet curiosity, but that's a bit slower. It's really fun because so much draws =3 Only things that sucks here is the mana-base, three red is a bit hard, however manamorphose should make it more consistent.

4x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker ($15)
4x Pestermite

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Manamorphose
3x Flash of Insight

4x Daze
4x Counterspell
4x Rune Snag

3x Electrolyze
2x Fire / Ice ($6)

10x Island
6x Mountain
4x Izzet Boilerworks

xsockmonkeyx

05-28-2008, 07:04 AM

MasterC

05-28-2008, 08:01 AM

WR Rifter:

10 Plains
7 Mountain
4 Secluded Steppe
4 Forgotten Cave

4 Eternal Dragon $10
3 Humility $10
4 Lightning Rift
2 Pulse of the Fields
4 Swords to Plowshares $6
4 Decree of Justice $10
4 Abeyance $10
3 Radiant's Judgment
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Story Circle
1 Engineered Explosives $3
3 Wrath of God $20

-> $80 for the money cards

GreenOne

05-28-2008, 09:59 AM

$115 Goblins

4 Aether Vial $10
4 Lackey $36
2 Ancient Tomb $4

4 Matron - $1
4 Ringleader - $8
4 Warchief - $6

2 Piledriver $24
3 SGC $9

4 Fanatic $3
4 Incinerator $1
3 Tinkerer $.30
1 King $.50

21 Mountain

3 Blood Moon $6
1 King $.50
4 Pyroblast $.40
3 Pyrokinesis $.30
4 Crypt $4

$90 without the Piledrivers.

21 Red Sources is a LOT. I'd play -2 mountains +2 Goblin Burrows. This is gonna help the landstill matchup (humility), and maybe the thresh match too (trading Goose can help) for virtually no cost, both in manabase stability and $.

xsockmonkeyx

05-28-2008, 10:03 AM

21 Red Sources is a LOT. I'd play -2 mountains +2 Goblin Burrows. This is gonna help the landstill matchup (humility), and maybe the thresh match too (trading Goose can help) for virtually no cost, both in manabase stability and $.

Yes, thanks. I put Burrows in the list for the other thread but forgot it here >_<

Ozymandias

05-28-2008, 05:36 PM

Budget Pox

4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Innocent Blood

1 Nether Spirit
4 Scalding Tongs
4 The Rack

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 Anything

23 Swamp

dahcmai

05-28-2008, 05:42 PM

Almost forgot about these.

Green Stompy

5 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Quirion Ranger

3 Vine Dryad
3 Rogue Elephant
4 Jungle Lion
4 Skaggan Pit-Skulk
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Pouncing Jaguar
4 Street Wraith

4 Rancor
4 Briar Shield
3 Giant Growth
3 Might of Old Krosa

Don't even need the fetchland really, but it's not bad compared to what you're paying for the rest anyway.

Rabid Wombat (it's an old list, but still cheap.)

9x Snow-Covered Plains
10x Plains
3x Secluded Steppe

4x Eternal Dragon
4x Decree of Justice

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Humility
3x Wrath of God
4x Wing Shards

4x Abeyance
4x Renewed Faith
4x Bandage
2x Akroma's Vengeance
2x Rune of Protection: Red

Death and Taxes (might be a lil outdated but still good.)

3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial

2 True Believer
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Serra Avenger
4 Silver Knight

4 Glowrider
3 Stonecloaker
2 Mangara of Corondor

2 Hokori, Dust Drinker

4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
6 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Cataclysm

Salvagers (considering there's only 3 duals, it's not too horridly expensive overall)

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Living Wish
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Tainted Pact
4 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Innocent Blood
4 Dark Ritual
2 Nights Whisper
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Krosan Reclamation
2 Auriok Salvagers
3 Gamekeeper

1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plains
2 Snow Covered Forest
2 Forest
3 Snow Covered Swamp
2 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath

Oh and thanks a lot for the lists and help. I'll be handing these out at the local store. Maybe we'll gain a few more people when the newer players aren't getting smashed every week.

Illissius

05-28-2008, 05:55 PM

I made a script to fetch price data from MOTL and calculate the price of a given decklist, according to it, that Salvagers list costs around $230, and the Ichorid list I posted is around $75. For reference, a random GBWr Survival list I had was over $600.

I do wonder if you couldn't put together something salvageable out of Land Grant, Tithe, Eternal Dragon, old-style fetchlands, Safewright Quest, and/or Terramorphic Expanse, along with singletons of the relevant shocklands. Of course, you can always just use multicolored lands which are strictly inferior to duals but much cheaper, like painlands.

Wallace

05-28-2008, 06:33 PM

You could throw together R/G Beats for around $100, this list would probably work well. It's also easy to play which is nice for a newer player.

4 Mogg Fanatic ($6 10th Ed.)
4 Grim Lavamancer ($20 Judgment)
4 Keldon Marauders ($1 Planar Chaos)
4 Kird Ape ($2 9th Ed.)
3 Quirion Dryad ($8 10th Ed.)

4 Lightning Bolt ($5 Rev.)
4 Chain Lightning ($20 Legends)
4 Rift Bolt ($2 Time Spiral)
3 Fireblast ($2 Visions)
3 Magma Jet ($2 Fifth Dawn)
3 Price Of Progress ($4 Exodus)

4 Stomping Grounds ($26 Ravnica)
4 Karplusan Forest ($8 7th Ed.)
2 Forest (?)
10 Mountain (?)

$106.00 (MOTL Price Guide)

Valtrix

05-28-2008, 06:48 PM

Kuma

05-28-2008, 06:48 PM

Dragon Stompy is an inexpensive deck that's pretty straightforward and an excellent choice against most of the best decks in Legacy. Aside from Umezawa's Jitte, City of Traitors, Pithing Needle, and Chrome Mox, the deck doesn't cost much money.

10x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb 12$
4x City of Traitors 32$

4x Gathan Raiders .40$
4x Rakdos Pit Dragon 6$
4x Arc Slogger $2
4x Sulfur Elemental $4
4x Magus of the Moon $12
4x Simian Spirit Guide $2

4x Chrome Mox $44
4x Seething Song $2
4x Chalice of the Void $12
4x Blood Moon $4
2x Umezawa's Jitte $18

4x Pyrokinesis $4
3x Pyroclasm $3
4x Pithing Needle $42
3x Trinisphere $2
1x Umezawa's Jitte $9

Total: $210.40

Umezawa's Jitte can be replaced with Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Light and Shadow, or Loxodon Warhammer, reducing the cost by $6, $15, or $21 respectively

Pithing Needle can be replaced by more Trinisphere, more Pyroclasm, or Tormod's Crypt, or even Shattering Spree, although Needle is the best option by far.

There really isn't a replacement for Chrome Mox or City of Traitors, but you can still get the deck down to around $150-$160 fairly easily, assuming you own none of the cards for it already.

Wallace

05-28-2008, 06:59 PM

...Total: $210.40...

I may be a little off on my def of cheap but you $210 is not cheap. For $210 you could build a lot of Legacy decks. I really think you need to stay around $100 to be considered cheap...IMO.

rleader

05-28-2008, 07:12 PM

So, no deck lists here, but I really think that a definition of "cheap" needs to come in.

A lot of the prices listed in threads like this are useless in their optimism too.

Maybe if you ebay snipe for six months you found something at that price, but in general, people are going to be paying 50% more, at least. SCG gouges people for eternal staples for the most part*, but I think they're a more reliable benchmark for what the average person in podunk has to pay via mail order.

I've seen a lot of these threads on a lot of different forums and I always seem people claiming that such and such deck is really $100 when it would more typically cost someone $175 to put it together. And when you point that out, it's always greeted with "well, I -- me me me -- got my burning wishes for $20 a set, it's not my problem if you can't!"

*Why doesn't City of Traitors go up in price? It's been creeping up lately ($7 up to 12 over the course of the past year), but it's still miraculously undervalued compared to other cards in the format that aren't ext legal. Everyone is always out of stock of it or near enough to it and it's more universally useful than something like Grindstone.

Ozymandias

05-28-2008, 07:31 PM

Really, there's never going to be a cheap control deck in Legacy, because you're going to need either the good colorless lands (City/Wastes/etc), Force of Wills, Pernicious Deeds, duals, etc.

Cheap Aggro is manageable with Burn or affinity, but you need to still shell out 30-40 for a playset of Chain Lightnings or Ravagers.

Cheap Combo is also problematic, mostly because of the LEDs. I guess that Spring Tide or Permanent Waves might be doable without forces, but at that point...

GreenOne

05-29-2008, 09:16 AM

Really, there's never going to be a cheap control deck in Legacy, because you're going to need either the good colorless lands (City/Wastes/etc), Force of Wills, Pernicious Deeds, duals, etc.
Cheap Aggro is manageable with Burn or affinity, but you need to still shell out 30-40 for a playset of Chain Lightnings or Ravagers.
Cheap Combo is also problematic, mostly because of the LEDs

If you want that cheap you have toplay something suboptimal:
Cheap Aggro: Affinity with atog in place of ravager, Burn without Chain Lightning.
Cheap Combo: Ichorid without LED.
Cheap Control: Maybe Enchantress or Rabid Wombat.

overseer1234

05-29-2008, 10:30 AM

Spring Tide is also quite cheap for a combo deck if you throw out the force of will's, but they're going to need those anyway so it's never a bad investment.

4x Cloud of Faeries 2
4x Brainstorm 4
3x Cunning Wish 13.5
4x Force of Will 80, but can be replaced with remand so this could cost 2.5...
4x High Tide 1.5
3x Meditate 7.5
3x Snap 1.5
3x Turnabout 7.5
16x Island(A) 0 or whatever they ask, u usually have them anyway...
4x Ideas Unbound 1
4x Merchant Scroll 3
4x Ponder 1
4x Sleight of Hand 1
Sideboard

4x Defense Grid 2
2x Brain Freeze 2
1x Capsize 0.25
1x Divert/misdirection 0.5/7
1x Echoing Truth 0.25
1x Meditate 2.5
1x Rebuild 0.25
1x Stroke of Genius 4
1x Turnabout 2.5
1x Chain of Vapor 0.5
1x Mystical Tutor 3

Main deck: 68.5 If u replace force of will with remand
Sideboard: 17.75/24.25

U can also play fetch so brainstorm and ponder become better (they're still good with ponder as a shuffle effect, and merchant scroll as a tutor/shuffler..)

Prices are MOTL prices usualy rounded up..

Illissius

05-29-2008, 11:13 AM

Here's a terrible (really) Suicide list which costs dirt (~$25):

4 Carnophage
4 Rotting Giant
4 Wretched Anurid
4 Stromgald Crusader
4 Ashenmoor Gouger
4 Snuff Out
3 Smother
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Distress
4 Dark Ritual
19 Swamp
SB: 4 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Dystopia
SB: 4 Planar Void
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst

Most of the good cards are actually in the sideboard, eh. (Maybe the Voids should be Tormod's or Jailers to not conflict with Giant, but I think Void is otherwise stronger). And yeah, that's two copies of fricking Distress. I couldn't find anything better. (There's also a bit of a glut at 2 mana in the curve, as frequently happens with Suicide decks). Sarcomancies, Hyppies, Negators, and Unmasks are still relatively inexpensive if you want to add them and make it slightly less awful. Shades, Thoughtseizes, Scrolls and Jittes unfortunately are not.

Sligh for around $30-40:

4 Jackal Pup
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Keldon Marauders
3 Spark Elemental
4 Shock
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
17 Mountain
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis
SB: 4 Fractured Loyalty
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Shattering Spree

Spark Elemental is in there due to curve reasons. Tarmogoyf is public enemy #1, so one thought I had was to make the maindeck intentionally not have anything besides instants and creatures going to the graveyard, so as not to help them grow their Goyfs any more than you have to. Fractured Loyalty is neat tech I found against fat things of various sorts. (Other options explored: Flash of Defiance, Frenzied Goblin, Leonin Bola, Touchstone, Meekstone). You're going to autolose to Storm, no helping that, but you can add Pillars if you want to fight. I suspect your best plan against CounterTop is to try and kill them before it comes online, but red blasts are also an option, to try and counter it if you can.

And here's Burn for a similar amount:

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Shock
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
3 Flamebreak
17 Mountain
SB: 4 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Pyroclasm
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Shattering Spree

rleader

05-29-2008, 11:26 AM

Prices are MOTL prices usualy rounded up..

Those prices are absolutely worthless to the target audience for this thread. MOTL isn't a place for newcomers to dive into with any confidence, especially if they want to put a deck together on any sort of deadline. And if you're an actual kid, sans credit card, it's probably sort of hard to explain to your parents vs. a retailer like SCG or Trollandtoad.

3x Cunning Wish 13.5

And for the average person, $18 is more like it. Not a huge difference, but when one exagerrates low prices across the span of an entire deck, it adds up significantly.

Sorry for singling you out, the same applies to some of the other nonsense figures that have been given in this thread.

Two jittes for $19? Maybe if they've been through someone's bicycle spokes.

Illissius

05-29-2008, 12:08 PM

I'm using MOTL first and foremost because it's convenient. If you can find me anywhere else you can get a single text file with the price of every single card ever, I'll be glad to consider it.

NeXuS

05-29-2008, 12:27 PM

heres a list i had an idea for and it should be rather cheap

WR Sligh

x4 Savanah Lions ($16)
x4 Tattermunge Maniac ($8)
x4 Mogg Fanatic ($8)
x4 Grim Lavamancer ($32)

Creatures = 16
x4 Lightning bolt ($8)
x4 Chain Lightning ($32)
x4 Shard Volley ($2)
x4 Incinerate ($4)
x4 WR Burn spell (forgot the name looking for it then ill edit it)
x4 Magma Jet ($4)

Burn = 24

$114

x10 Mountains
x10 Plans

and when you want to spend some more money you can upgrade by adding Plateaus and fetches

SpatulaOfTheAges

05-29-2008, 12:48 PM

So, no deck lists here, but I really think that a definition of "cheap" needs to come in. A lot of people are posting decks that cost around $100, and while that may be cheap relative to what good decks cost to make, the kind of crowd it seems that this list is aimed at won't have (or want) to spend that much money on cards.

If you can't invest $100 over time, you just can't get into competitive Magic.

Most teenager can, over a few months at least, scrounge together a hundred bucks, which is a reasonable starting point, or trade into some of the cards for a modestly priced deck and buy what's left over.

Maybe the opening post should be edited to keep track of two different categories: the uber-cheap decks that MIGHT get you into the t8 once in a while, and the cheap versions of competitive decks that are a real launching point for building the optimal version of said deck.

xsockmonkeyx

05-29-2008, 12:58 PM

So, no deck lists here, but I really think that a definition of "cheap" needs to come in. A lot of people are posting decks that cost around $100, and while that may be cheap relative to what good decks cost to make, the kind of crowd it seems that this list is aimed at won't have (or want) to spend that much money on cards.

Alright then.

$50 Goblins

4 Aether Vial $10
4 Skirk Prospector $.40
2 Ancient Tomb $4

4 Matron - $1
4 Ringleader - $8
4 Warchief - $6

4 Mogg War Marshall $.40
2 SGC $6

4 Fanatic $4
4 Incinerator $1
2 Tinkerer $.20
1 King $.50
2 Goblin Burrows $.20

19 Mountain

4 Pyrostatic Pillar $.40
1 King $.50
4 Pyroblast $.40
2 Pyrokinesis $.30
4 Crypt $4

overseer1234

05-29-2008, 01:11 PM

come to think of it, my sligh list isn't to expensive (If you don't count the grim lavamancer's and chain lightning)

4x Blood Knight
STP, Vindicate, Death&Taxes, jothun grunt?????

4x Grim Lavamancer
expensive but owns so hard, might be a little bit worse without the fetch...

4x Jackal Pup
could be replaced by tatermurge maniak, bur I like it old school :cool:

4x Mogg Fanatic
staple, removes bridge from below, kills dark confidant, trades off with 2/2's,...

3x Genju of the Spires
totally OWNS humility, re-usable ball lightning :D

4x Fireblast
feeds lavamancer, kills big things, finisher

3x Incinerate
see mogg fanatic

4x Lava Dart
really good against weeny agro decks, works better than it looks like on paper

4x Lightning Bolt
see incinerate

4x Magma Jet
card selection is something really usefully since we have no other ways to do this...

14x Mountain
most overpowered card next to islands

4x Wooded Foothills
feeds lavamancers but could be replaced by another 4 mountains

4x Chain Lightning
see lightning bolt, pretty expensive, but can be replaces by something like shard voley, which also feeds lavamancer since you probably won't be playing fetch either if this is to expensive..

Sideboard:
4x Flaring Pain
kills solitary confinement, but can be kicked for something better
3x Pyroblast
Kills everything blue....
4x Red Elemental Blast
See pyroblast
These 3 can be replaced by other stuff depending on the metagame like pyrostatic pillar, pithing needle (however I never needed that in THIS deck...), tormod's crypt, ensnaring bridge,...

4x Shattering Spree
Really needed, active jitte, chalice of the void, trinisphere, sphere of resistance,..... everything that looks like this will really be painful and WILL kill you on the spot if you don't draw this baby any time soon after that..

Overall a pretty cheap deck that's a blast to play, and isn't really bad...
And if it's still to expensive it can easily be budgetized with cards like shard voley, magus of the scroll, or hate cards like magus of the moon

P.s.: my prices in the previous posts were in € so that's why they mostly look lower...

NeXuS

05-29-2008, 01:13 PM

Here is the deck i started playing when i started magic

// Lands
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
4 Island
4 Seat of the Synod

Creatures
3 Atog
2 Somber Hoverguard
2 Broodstar
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the vault

Spells
4 Fling
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating

something like that (made the list off of the top of my head)

it only ran me like $50

Cait_Sith

05-29-2008, 05:54 PM

Rabid Wombat (it's an old list, but still cheap.)

9x Snow-Covered Plains
10x Plains
3x Secluded Steppe

4x Eternal Dragon
4x Decree of Justice

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Humility
3x Wrath of God
4x Wing Shards

4x Abeyance
4x Renewed Faith
4x Bandage
2x Akroma's Vengeance
2x Rune of Protection: Red

In this list the Wrath's are the only real money cards. In this meta I would say exchange Bandage for Festival of the Guildpact, but this should not cost to much Md. Honestly, it is probably one of the best out of all the ones suggested.

GreenOne

05-29-2008, 08:08 PM

In this list the Wrath's are the only real money cards.

You can play Rout instead of Wrath too. Not the same but not THAT bad.

hypeiv

06-11-2008, 05:39 PM

Legacy is much cheaper than standard if you play for any amount of time. Trying to keep up with the mana bases that rotate out of standard gets expensive really fast. At least with legacy the cards usually keep their value.

Anyone thinking about getting into legacy should try and build one of these $100 decks and get the cheap staple cards (swords to plowshare, dark ritual, brainstorm, etc).

If you decide to start spending money I would recommend buying fetch lands before dual lands. I went the other way around and regret it. Fetches can usually color fix you and sometimes its nice having basic lands on the board (back to basics, wasteland, price of progress, etc).

Team-Hero

06-11-2008, 06:19 PM

Fetches can usually color fix you and sometimes its nice having basic lands on the board (back to basics, wasteland, price of progress, etc).

To punish people who use fetchlands try Ankh of Mishra. It doesn't cost much and it fits into a lot of decks. If this artifact is in play, all fetchalnds in hands cost a player a total of 5 life to use.

For the non-basic lands. In addition to what Hypeiv brought up, cards like Ruination, Primal Order, Dwarven Miner, Dust Bowl, and Detritivore are cheap and can help. I'd go with Ruination and Primal Order. I have played them in my local tournament and I was pleased with their performance.

If your going to play basics, punish your opponents for not doing the same.

hypeiv

06-16-2008, 02:40 PM

I split top 4 at a local store this weekend with a deck I lifted from this thread:(only a 11 person event)

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showpost.php?p=219415&postcount=25

3 Flagstones of Trokair - $10
17 Plains - $1
1 Isamaru - $5
3 Savannah Lions - $9
4 Mother of Runes - $8
4 Soltari Priest - $10
2 Silver Knight - $3
2 Serra Avenger - $10
4 Suntail Hawk - $.40
4 Dawn Elemental - $4

3 Jitte - $30
2 Disenchant - $.10
4 Swords to Plowshares - $12
2 Cataclysm - $5
1 SoFI - $10
2 Mask of Memory - $.2
2 Pariah - $5

122.70

Sideboard
---------
2 Disenchant $.10
4 Seal of Cleansing $.20
1 Bone Splitter $.20
1 Savannah Lions $3
4 T Crypt $6
2 Pariah $5
1 Silver Knight $1.5

$16

I think this would be a pretty decent starting deck for anyone just getting into legacy b/c a lot of the money is in cards that will be run in many different decks (i.e. T crypt, STP, Jitte and SoFI).

If you like the style WW is a cheap way to get into legacy

Shugyosha

06-22-2008, 07:03 PM

Budget Supergrow
-----------------

7 Island
2 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits

4 Quirion Dryad
4 Wee Dragonauts
2 Taurean Mauler

4 Daze
4 Counterspell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Accumulated Knowledge

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
2 Lava Dart
2 Fling

This 60 card list would cost you $77.90 at MTG Fanatic with lands but I'm pretty sure you can get some cards for less money. And nearly every magic player should already have one or another card of that list (Jet, Mauler, Expanse, Basics)

Add some Grips or Seal of Primordiums, Blood Moons, Red and Blue Elemental Blasts, Pyroclasms and Crypts for the sideboard.

After that I would begin with fetches and Fire/Ice in the Magma Jet slot.

chokin

06-22-2008, 07:55 PM

Natthew

07-12-2008, 10:58 PM

Here's a cheap threshold deck my friend has; the cards total around $80 on Starcitygames, but you should be able to build for around $50 if you get them from a card store. Blood Moon is the only rare card in the deck.

Lands:
8x Island (free, hopefully)
4x Forest
4x Mountain
4x Terramorphic Expanse (1.00)

Creatures:
4x Nimble Mongoose (8.00)
4x Werebear (3.00)

Spells:
4x Rune Snag (Counterspell will work better in a 2 color build) (4.00)
3x Daze (4.50)
4x Ponder (2.00)
4x Brainstorm (4.00)
4x Lightning bolt (8.00)
3x Magma Jet (6.00)

Enchantments:
4x Counterbalance (16.00)
3x Sensei's Deving Top (18.00)
3x Blood Moon (9.00)

You could get the Countertop off of ebay for much less, and you could run magus for an extra $20. If this were my deck, I'd probably take out the red splash and run counterspell and some CA engines (predict comes to mind) to add consistency.

Then you could just upgrade as you go. Force of Will comes first, then I'd add some flooded strands and a get trops. I would wait to buy Tarmogoyfs because their prices have been falling pretty consistantly since April (http://findmagiccards.com/Cards/FS/Tarmogoyf.html) and their prices should drop at least $5 a piece when they rotate out of standard. Extended still uses it lots, but deckcheck says that it's the second most popular nonland card currently in Standard.

EDIT: Just a personal curiosity, but would it be possible to make a cheap-ish Landstill deck if I have the Force of Wills? Tundras and Strands should be around $175, but what other money cards are necessary for a two-color build?

MattH

07-13-2008, 12:02 PM

Then you could just upgrade as you go. Force of Will comes first, then I'd add some flooded strands and a get trops.
Land Grant, Strands are still expensive. Get 1 Trop, then add 4 Land Grant to access it consistently. This worked wonders for me when I was just starting out (with U/G Madness).

If you're using a white deck, a similar trick can be done with Tithe.

Of course, you can always just use multicolored lands which are strictly inferior to duals but much cheaper, like painlands.
The Shadowmoor cycle of duals is really, really good past the first turn.

GenioDeArena

07-13-2008, 11:48 PM

This is the deck Im playing currently. I dont know the prices, but Im really sure this must be budget.

B/g Aggro controll

3_initiates of the ebon hand
3_Abyssal gatekeeper
4_Wild Mongrel
2_Sakura tribe elder
3_Crypt rats
3_Gathan raiders

4_Dark ritual

4_Duress
3_Hymn to Tourach
4_Diabolic edict
2_Expunge
1_Moldervine cloak

2_Skeletal scrying

1_Volrath´s stronghold
8_Swamp
3_Barren moor
3_Forest
1_Darigaaz caldera
2_Terramorphic expanse
4_Tendo ice bridge

Of course the deck is preety much tweaked to deal with aggro without autoloosing to control or combo, even though the last one is almost nonexistant in my meta. but the SB can bring a lot of hate against them anyways. Some cards can be replaced without a problem. The Tendos are there just because come into play untapped, otherwise the vivid lands will do, the good thing about them is the tandem with the Initiates, many games i dont even end up using the ice counter anyway. The deck only needs just one green source in play, may the rest be black. Add the fourth Hymn if you have it. Send the Rats and the Gatekeepers to the SB if you dont expect many aggro MUs.

hugh1130

07-20-2008, 03:49 PM

dahcmai

07-20-2008, 05:18 PM

I think picking up maybe two trops and a few fetches can get you by with ease without a serious moneysink.

xsockmonkeyx

07-20-2008, 07:28 PM

If i had a base card pool of

4x daze
4x force of will
3x flooded strand
4x wooded foothills
4x lightning bolt
4x StP
4x nimbles

what would cheapest competitive build of thresh i could start

and if i had to by the next staple what would it be ( counter/top trops ect)

Cheapest would be U/G thresh (if you have the wastelands too then this is a plus). Most worthwhile splash from there would be white, mainly because Tundra>>>Volcano Island in general. From here your best moves are Brainstorm, Ponder, Werebear, Trops, Flooded Strand #4, some Deltas (or Heaths w/ white splash), Counter/top, and then Goyfs.

hugh1130

07-20-2008, 07:55 PM

Cheapest would be U/G thresh (if you have the wastelands too then this is a plus). Most worthwhile splash from there would be white, mainly because Tundra>>>Volcano Island in general. From here your best moves are Brainstorm, Ponder, Werebear, Trops, Flooded Strand #4, some Deltas (or Heaths w/ white splash), Counter/top, and then Goyfs.

have the first 3 cards guess i forgot to list

alright so

can i get away with a mana base of

4 strands/4foothills
5 duals ( 3 trop, 2 tundras)
2 island
2 forest
1 plains

thinking of skipping the U/G stage mainly because most U/G build run geese,bears and goyfs and eventually i think i will eventuall be playing with a W splash so i can hold off buying the goyfs for longer hoping they go down in price.

xsockmonkeyx

07-20-2008, 08:28 PM

You would be much better served getting Heaths or Deltas instead of Tundra #2 and Trop #3. The Wooded Foothills arent going to cut it in UGw.

GenioDeArena

07-20-2008, 09:06 PM

All those are staples, but not budget by all means.

Im thinking something in the lines of:

4_Tinder wall
4_Orcish lumberjack
Green fat (Blastoderm and the likes)
red burn
Maybe aether flash if there are many Gobos in the meta, anti weenie card in general
And a sideboard dedicated to have chances with the rest

Elficidium

07-21-2008, 04:54 AM

Maybe aether flash if there are many Gobos in the meta, anti weenie card in general

I'd go for Pyroclasm, by Turn 3/4 there are already way too many goblins on the board.

GenioDeArena

07-22-2008, 12:13 PM

I'd go for Pyroclasm, by Turn 3/4 there are already way too many goblins on the board.

Good call, im thinking earthquake instead, cause it helps killing the opponent as well.

Captain_Morgan

08-05-2008, 12:35 PM

I'd try to find card shops that have dollar or 50 cent boxes and scour them. I managed to find several things like Duresses and various other things. Mostly one of's, but it's definately more than full price of admission.

The other is to be a shrewd trader without being covetous. Learn what cards that trade moderate-> heavy. Also, learn to read several formats to gauge what is hot and will be around rotations for trading.

Networking also helps a lot to trade cards. Also, if you get a hot foil rare or something, sell it off when it climbs to a peak or near peak. It's some guess work, but well worth it when you have meager means.

Never pay full price for a card if you can help it, shop or trade.

lunar_eternal_blue

08-11-2008, 04:55 PM

My suggestion is to build something like Madness or Budget Thresh and grow towards UG Thresh and then finally splash.

That's basically what I did. Madness was cheap and really nasty. I added a few fetch and a Tropical Island. Then I got a job.

Funny, I did the exact same thing. The upgrade from Madness to Thresh was amazing though. I played Goyfless Thresh for the longest time and did pretty damn good considering. I made top 8 several times. Force is definitely the first priority, and it is in so many decks that it is a good investment. Then start with a few duals and go with mostly fetches from there. After a while build up to the rest of the duals. I found white splash to be the best. Mystic Enforcer helped me to fight against other goyfs, as well as E. Explosives and Threads of Disloyalty.

I found that against decks without goyf, werebear did mostly the same thing, and whether it was a goyf or a werebear in my hand would have made little difference. The time goyf mattered the most was against other goyfs. Werebear just couldn't cut it usually. Goyf also was much better against goblins. (Don't get me wrong, Goyf is a million times better than werebear, but both are 2cc beaters that are answered by mostly the same cards.)

Although I have shyed away from thresh now, goyfs will be coming down in price, which is good news for budget thresh builders.

SuckerPunch

08-22-2008, 09:37 AM

Pox

(Mana)
18 Swamp
2 Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Dark Ritual

(1cc Disruption)
4 Duress
4 Innocent Blood
2 Cabal Therapy/Funeral Charm/Infest

(2cc Disruption)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
2 Powder Keg

(3cc Disruption)
4 Pox

(Win Conditions)
3 Tombstalker
3 Chimeric Idol/Phyrexian Totem
2 Epochrasite/Nether Spirit

Iare

08-31-2008, 01:23 PM

Black and white weenies can be a decent cheap deck something I use on occasion (Does a good job versus low threat count decks .. thresh,land still, some extent even sui black decks plus it doesn't always roll to combo) Maindecking jixilid jailer and jotun grunt is mad icohid hate :cool:

Creatures
3x Jotun grunt
3x Jixilid Jailer
4x restless apparition
4x Carnophage
4x Savannah lions
4x True Believer

Spells
4x Swords
4x Reprisal
4x Unearth
2x Night's Whisper
4x Dark Ritual

Lands
10x Swamp
6x Plains
4x Tainted Field

Sideboard is
4x Planar void
4x Samurai of the pale curtain
4x Plains
3x Smother

Daze

10-09-2008, 05:10 AM

Iare

10-09-2008, 06:38 AM

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask this, but I guess many people starting with Legacy would like to know- what do you consider to be the best "budget" deck for an unknown metagame?
While I'm not exactly new to the format, I'm still not sure which deck I should play. I don't want to use any suboptimal lists, but since I play maybe once in a month, I neither want to have a full set of duals, fetches and goyfs lying around just for that. Decks I narrowed down to (feel free to suggest others, those are just the ones that caught my attention):

Ichorid
Dragon Stompy
Armageddon
Vial Affinity
Merfolk
MUC
MBC
Death&Taxes
Pox

Those are not exactly budget decks, but cheaper than most of the others. Except for Ichorid, they are also "easy" to play (compared to something like e.g. Fetchland Tendrils). Thanks in advance,

Daze

All those listed are quality choices IMHO (save affinity too easy to hate/disrupt). It really comes down to your meta game and play style which to choose. Of the decks you listed I have a pox deck and a MUC deck built and they have all been reliable against a broad ever changing field (My meta game is very non static)

Also, DA STIIK (Aka scepter chant) doesn't get played much but it does have game....

Lands-20
7 Plains
9 Islands
4 Flooded strand

Spells-30
4x Isocron Scepter
4x Swords
4x Orim's chant
4x Force Of will
4x spell snare
4x Reprisal
3x Counter balance
3x Top

Creatures- 10
3x Jotun Grunt
4x Serra avenger
3x Deep-sea Kraken

SideBoard
4x Stifle
4x Propaganda
4x Relic
3x Disenchant

I kinda threw the list together and took it to a single tournament I ended up third its probably total jank but its a start. I'm too lazy to work on it :P

Media314r8

10-09-2008, 08:19 AM

Budget Madness

// Lands
4 [10E] Terramorphic Expanse -$1
10 [A] Island (1)
6 [DM] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [TSP] Looter il-Kor -$1
4 [TO] Arrogant Wurm -$8
4 [OD] Wild Mongrel -$2
4 [TO] Basking Rootwalla -$2

// Spells
3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus -$1
3 [US] Back to Basics -$5
4 [MM] Brainstorm -$2
4 [FD] Grafted Wargear -$4
2 [7E] Counterspell -$1
4 [DIS] Spell Snare -$10
4 [NE] Daze -$5

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MR] Sun Droplet -$2
SB: 3 [10E] Hurkyl's Recall -$4
SB: 4 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast -$2
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst -$4

Total : $54

Relic and B2B will straight steal games against goyfs/GY based decks and non-basics.(>half the format) CA engines are difficult to find on a budget, but the madness mechanic (if used by looter) ensures CA and/or CQ while being an evasive beater that can carry the cheapest, fastest, playable equipment- Grafted Wargear. Terramorphics are your shuffle outlet in lieu of fetches, and can get you a turn one forest if you aren't holing a spell snare. Counterspell is only a two-of as you don't have duals. Spell snare is good enough to be a four-of, and it and daze should give you a fighting chance against combo pre-board. (vs wishes/infernals IF they dont chant) Deck can be built upon as follows:

SB:
Sun Drop - buys time to stabalize, ensures swarms don't kill you
vs goblins/burn/aggro-sligh
Hurkyl's Recall - CA/nutrality vs moxen, tempoarily stalls vs shackles, stacks, ect
vs affinity, stax, dragon stompy
BEB - kills red things and spells. burr.
vs Goblins, DS, Aggroloam
Thorn - Hurts daze, BS, but with B2B, makes life very hard for thresh, and lets us keep dropping critters while buying time against combo. Luckily for our counters, they usually have to kill it before they attempt to go off, allowing our counter to come back online at the originaly price.

+4 Force -1 daze, -1 snare, -2 counterspell ($80)
+4 Tropics + 3 counterspell, - 3 islands, -1 forest - 3 B2B ($~130)
+4 Goyfs +3 Jitte, -3 Relic, -4 wargear ($170)
+6 fetches, -2 basic -4 terramorphics ($90)
This would basicly give you modern UG madness, minus fetches and wastes, but would be a decent way for a budget player to build a competitive deck, thereafter possibly purchasing more duals and evolving it into UGx thresh.

Prices are for SP from Star City

* Gathan raider excluded as unlike Dragon Stompy, this deck hopes to hold a counterspell, and while a decent beater/madness outlet for :3:, will more often be a 3/3 than a 5/5.

Fossil4182

11-24-2008, 01:45 PM

Mono Blue Control on a Budget: (Prices based off of Starcitygames.com)

Land:
18 Island
2 Stalking Stones - $0.50
4 Terramorphic Expanse - $1

Counters:
4 Daze - $4
4 Counterspell - $4
2 Mana Leak - $3
4 Foil - $2

Draw
4 Brainstorm - $3
4 Ponder - $2
2 Fact or Fiction $5

Control
4 Propaganda - $10
4 Echoing Truth - $1

Win Conditions
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror - $4
2 Deep-Sea Kraken $1

Total Cost: $40.50

Standard Mono Blue Control deck. Its pretty straightforward on how to play. Counter must counter spells, use board control things like Echoing Truth and Propaganda. Gradual step up cards could be Trickbind, Spell Snare, Top, Counterbalance all the way up to Force of Will.

troopatroop

11-24-2008, 02:22 PM

Mono Blue Control on a Budget: (Prices based off of Starcitygames.com)

Land:
18 Island
2 Stalking Stones - $0.50
4 Terramorphic Expanse - $1

Counters:
4 Daze - $4
4 Counterspell - $4
2 Mana Leak - $3
4 Foil - $2

Draw
4 Brainstorm - $3
4 Ponder - $2
2 Jace Berlen*** - $10

Control
4 Propaganda - $10
4 Boomerang - $1

Win Conditions
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror - $4
2 Deep-Sea Kraken $1

Total Cost: $45.50

Some of the card choices can be cut for even cheaper things. Jace isn't necessary by any means, but if you're going budget and want something cool, Jace might not be a bad call. Yes, Foil is bad, but if its' budget than its better than $80 - $90 on FoW.

I would find room for Concentrate, probably cutting Jace for it if we're going budget, but Jace is also in those new pre-cons and might be in the hands of many kids. I dunno, but if you play Concentrate in those two slots you'll lower the cost of the deck significantly. Boomerang should be Echoing truth too.

Fossil4182

11-24-2008, 02:38 PM

I would find room for Concentrate, probably cutting Jace for it if we're going budget, but Jace is also in those new pre-cons and might be in the hands of many kids. I dunno, but if you play Concentrate in those two slots you'll lower the cost of the deck significantly. Boomerang should be Echoing truth too.

Echoing Truth is better in just about every instance.

I'd keep Jace if for no other reason than you can pick them up for $5 a piece. I know Concentrate is cheaper, but if you want a middle ground Fact or Fiction is $2.50 a piece. I get why Concentrate seems good, but in a budget deck that doesn't have a lot of good main deck answers to permanents anyway, you'll need to have the mana free for Counterspells. Plus, both Jace and Fact or Fiction will see more play than Concentrate as the player's collection grows.

citanul

11-24-2008, 02:55 PM

Land:
18 Island
2 Stalking Stones - $0.50
4 Terramorphic Expanse - $1

Counters:
4 Daze - $4
4 Counterspell - $4
2 Mana Leak - $3
4 Foil - $2

Draw
4 Brainstorm - $3
4 Ponder - $2
2 Fact or Fiction $5

Control
4 Propaganda - $10
4 Echoing Truth - $1

Win Conditions
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror - $4
2 Deep-Sea Kraken $1

No terramorphic Expanse, just play basics instead. This deck needs lands that don't come into play tapped. Daze sets you back as well, what's wrong with Force Spike? No fetchland means no Brainstorm, put in Impulse instead. Also, why no Vedalken Shackles? It's not that expensive.

Fossil4182

11-24-2008, 03:06 PM

Terramorphic Expanse works to thin the deck out and even though it comes into play tapped, its what allows Daze to work. Plus it is a shuffle effect that allows the deck to run Brainstorm. I like Brainstorm too much to warrant cutting it. Plus, someone starts off playing this will use Brainstorm more and more as opposed to Impulse. Vedalken Shackles isn't included because since I'm using starcitygames.com as a reference for pricing, Shackles are $11 which seems a bit too high. Propaganda plus Echoing Truth should work for what this deck is trying to do. Shackles would be a nice addition once the deck evolves a bit and people are able to invest some money into it.

Nihil Credo

11-24-2008, 03:06 PM

Vendilion Cliques cost about $4 and supplement budget-MUC's weaknesses well, while also being a win condition. I'd strongly consider 2-3 of them, probably for the Boomerang slot.

Cyrus

11-24-2008, 06:09 PM

Moar back to basics. It is too good not to be run. Only thing is that you'd need to cut the Stalking Stones, but 3/4 finishers are enough. And Rainbow Efreets are also another nice win con.

xsockmonkeyx

11-25-2008, 02:30 AM

Moar back to basics.

Yes MOAR. You are a budget deck, you should be hating on dual/double lands out of spite, if nothing else.

So, what would the deck look like if it were $100? That seems to be a solid number budget players are comfortable with.

Loosely based on the OP of the MUC thread:

24 Island

Counters:
3 Spell Snare $9
2 Force Spike $1.50
4 Counterspell $4
4 Foil - $2

Draw
4 Ancestral Vision $12 (seriously they have them for $3 each)
4 Fact or Fiction $10

Control
3 Propaganda $7.50
3 B2B $10
4 Powder Keg $14
2 Vedalken Shackles $22

Win Conditions
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror - $2
2 Rainbow Efreet - $2

Thats ~$100 Even with shackles and kegs. All you would need to add from there is Force of Will's, a Morphling or two and some random other cards for the full thing. Plus, Christmas is coming....

raharu

11-25-2008, 03:05 AM

Having experience with the card, I really don't even know if I'd bother to play Foil. I mean, some people acquaint it with Force of Will, but isn't not Force of Will, it's fucking terrible. I'd much rather see another Spell Snare, another Force Spike, and... iDunno. Two more hardcounters. Dissipate? Honestly I'd rather see another Back to Basics and another Propaganda, but if that's not possible I'd understand I guess. I would also consider replacing Ancestral Visions with Concentration or Impulse, considering that AV's particular deadness outside of the opening 7, combined with the weaker average strength of the cards, means that you'll want to be able to cast whatever draw spell you're holding ASAP on the Opponent's end-step, instead of having to waste turns on it when you top-deck it turn 5 or so. Obviously Concentration costs more and is better in the late-game than AV, which is why you might want to run Impulse instead, but even if you were to run Concentration over AV, it would be better in theory because you could actually refill in the mid-game, where you're stalling out, regardless of when you drew your secondary draw spell. Considering that you want your secondary draw spell to be Fact or Fiction #5-8 anyway, wouldn't you want something that has the same casting characteristics?

Forbiddian

11-25-2008, 03:59 AM

In a budget deck, I'd look for a deck that I could improve on if/when I got a higher budget. I'd also look for a deck that could give me the foundations to construct other decks without spending a lot of money on "junk" or "filler" cards that are very difficult-to-sell.

Starting by spending a hundred dollars toward a decent-but-not-competitive deck where the parts are not really tradable later is questionable. But yeah, you can acquire the deck for much, much cheaper if you're willing to put some time and effort into it.

You'll likely have to buy:

"4 Foil $2
4 Ancestral Vision $12 (seriously they have them for $3 each)
4 Fact or Fiction $10

Control
3 Propaganda $7.50
3 B2B $10
4 Powder Keg $14
2 Vedalken Shackles $22"

From eBay or an online card retailer. Most of those will probably have decent resale value. AVs will go down (they're already down to <10 for a playset).

The other cards, local players or the local cardshop are likely to have in a common bin for much better prices. I can't imagine paying a dollar per Counterspell, considering it's been printed in so many versions and it's not played in any formats anymore. I'm sure there are players with Melokus, Force Spikes, etc. willing to part with them for very cheap as well.

Save you about 30 bucks from online retailer prices.

xsockmonkeyx

11-25-2008, 05:34 AM

considering that AV's particular deadness outside of the opening 7, combined with the weaker average strength of the cards, means that you'll want to be able to cast whatever draw spell you're holding ASAP on the Opponent's end-step, instead of having to waste turns on it when you top-deck it turn 5 or so. Obviously Concentration costs more and is better in the late-game than AV, which is why you might want to run Impulse instead, but even if you were to run Concentration over AV, it would be better in theory because you could actually refill in the mid-game, where you're stalling out, regardless of when you drew your secondary draw spell. Considering that you want your secondary draw spell to be Fact or Fiction #5-8 anyway, wouldn't you want something that has the same casting characteristics?

Ive always liked AV in MUC. But I also think Ancestral Vision would be a better choice if you dont have FoW's in your deck. With Concentrate you have to tap 4 on your turn and you represent less countermagic to fight through on their turn. But yeah, with AV you suspend and they have their way with you.

Also, I dont want FoF #5-8 I want AV 1-4 I like the mix of FoF and AV because they are good at different times of the game, and theres a chance I can get lucky enough to have them at the right time. You could go for consistency but that would be boring :P

Cyrus

11-28-2008, 11:53 AM

Options for the Foils slot:

Negate, Faerie Trickery, Dissipate, Prohibit, Muddle the Mixture, Exclude, +force spikes + spell snare...

Another decent draw engine is Accumulated Knowledge, although not as explosive as AV and FoF it is still...useful.

raharu

11-29-2008, 03:05 PM

AK is... epicly slow. I mean, I've played them before, with 4 Ponders and 4 Brainstorms to find them, and they were rather... weak, even with all the search and fixing.

Sims

11-29-2008, 03:34 PM

AK is really only playable with Intuition to at least setup AK for 3 as your first cast, but there are much better things to burn Intuition on than setting up a 1 shot 3 card draw.

raharu

11-30-2008, 01:22 AM

AK is really only playable with Intuition to at least setup AK for 3 as your first cast, but there are much better things to burn Intuition on than setting up a 1 shot 3 card draw.
True, you might as well play Opportunity :3 Or, you know, Concentrate.

Illissius

11-30-2008, 07:19 AM

Hey don't diss Opportunity. I lubses that card.

And this should be obvious, but 3+2 mana is very not the same thing as 5 mana. It's why people play Shackles and not Treachery, and why people used to play Pouncing Jaguar but not Grizzly Bears.

Jonika

12-02-2008, 09:19 AM

THis thread looks like its exactly for me. Im 15 and a first time poster on this forum and have little legacy experience. I really wanted to get into the format but can't afford a massive number of duels or fetches. My deck options are pretty much narrowed to burn, ichorid, and affinity. Which deck do u think is the most competetive for under 200 dollars and would be good for me to start out with? I really like the fact that ichorid has good matchups against tier 1 decks, but do not like the fact that if people decide to, they can hate it out pretty easily.

Illissius

12-02-2008, 02:07 PM

I think they're pretty close. Probably 1. Ichorid, 2. Affinity, 3. Burn. In terms of not being boring as fuck after having goldfished it twice, though, I'm pretty sure that's Affinity, no contest. Maybe you could also build Goyfless Sligh and have it not suck entirely, dunno. (The next step up, in terms of expense, would be things like Dragon Stompy, MUC, and Goblins.)

raharu

12-02-2008, 06:16 PM

Dryad Sligh is pretty okay. The manabase is a little :frown: without the duals and fetches, but City of Brass works just fine. It's also pretty dynamic and makes agro matches skill contests, which is good for beginning players. That, and early Dryad makes 'Goyf look tame.

Affinity is pretty nice as well, but you won't be buying cards for that that'll carry over into other decks.

Actually though, MUC is a good idea for a budget deck, for under $200 dollars you'll be buying a good deck, and what you're working towards will include cards you'll actually use in other decks, like FoW for landstill (you can get a playset for <$80), and Shackles for ITF (which, while kinda expensive, are generally <$10 a piece), and the rest of the deck isn't too expensive, and will actually give you a chance to do solidly.

Jonika

12-02-2008, 06:31 PM

I have decided to go with affinity for know. I have all the peices for it besides ravager. DEspite what one person said i enjoy playing it, while like ichorid, it does have an extremely linear strategy. BTw i have a playset of FoW but don't really want to make a MUC. After i finish building affinity i will probably move onto to Ichorid.

xsockmonkeyx

12-02-2008, 06:36 PM

If you have Forces you could consider something like budget thresh (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8509). Not sure how up to date it is, but raharu knows all about that one.

Illissius

12-02-2008, 07:25 PM

If you have FoW you could also dick around with various FoW-Affinity builds (I refuse to call it the stupid name), and then maybe move on to Faerie Stompy from there.

Jonika

12-02-2008, 07:34 PM

I have attempted to build a budget thresh but witout fetches and duals its pretty much impossible. VialAffinity is actually superior to Affowffinity so im not really incredibely interested in that. Does anyone know of a good site where i can buy singles at?

Illissius

12-10-2008, 06:40 AM

Anyone think Goyfless Sligh might be a decent deck?

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Open Slot
18 Mountain
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 3 Pyroclasm

Candidates for Open Slot: Incinerate, Flame Javelin, Flames of the Blood Hand, Genju of the Spires.

Red doesn't have Grip, so I think eight Blasts is likely the best bet against Counterbalance (to counter it, not destroy it). Sometimes they'll counter back, but it's more effective than just praying. (Shusher will just get killed.)

Basically, if you build it like modern (Goyf) Sligh and not like classic Sligh with Pups and all, maybe this gives it a better chance of not sucking. That was the thinking.

(And yeah, this isn't über-budget: just none of the really expensive crap like Goyfs, Forces, duals, fetches, etc. Though removing Figure would cut the price nearly in half... is Genju a good replacement, I wonder?)

TheLion

12-10-2008, 06:59 AM

Yes, why not. There is even a mono red sligh list currently on deckcheck.net, which made first place on a 30+ tourny, I think.
With Jackal Pups and Tattermange Maniac...

I'd also try a version with Chrome Moxen, Ankh of Mishra and Slith Firewalker, which also had some success already.

raharu

01-27-2009, 06:57 PM

I have attempted to build a budget thresh but witout fetches and duals its pretty much impossible.

LIES, LIES AND DECEIT AND LIES!!!!

Seriously though, Back to Basics Budget thresh will put a roflstomping on lots. That, and you get to laugh at the guys running Duals. It's beautiful.

Threats: 10
Nimble Mongoose x4
Werebear x4
Mystic Enforcer x2

Board Control: 8
Swords to Plowshares x4
Back to Basics x4

Hand Manipulation: 14
Ponder x4
Brainstorm x4
Predict x3
Senseis Divining Top x3

Stack Control: 10
Counterspell/ Daze x3
Counterbalance x3
Force of will x4

Undiscovered Paradise x3
Gemstone Mine/ City of Brass x3
Terramorphic Expanse x4
Island x4
Plains x2
Forest x2

It feels like hardcore control, but with 10 solid threats. Obviously you slow-roll the deck in comparison to threshold, but it's effective, budget-oriented, and has games like full-fledged Back to Basics Threshold. Try it.

Does anyone know of a good site where i can buy singles at?

I like Blackborder.com, but I have a few friends that swear by trollandtoad.com. Blackborder has the better user interface by far.

xsockmonkeyx

03-23-2009, 03:23 PM

This is the budget Affinity build a friend of mine managed to T8 with this weekend. Im posting it here because it's pretty good for what it is, and it's ridiculously inexpensive.

4 Ornithopter $1
3 Roterothopter .40
4 Arcbound Worker .40
3 Disciple of the Vault .40
4 Frogmite .40
3 Myr Enforcer .30

4 Cranial Plating $1
4 Master of Etherium $16
3 Atog .30

4 Thoughtcast .40
2 Soul's Fire .20

4 Springleaf Drum .40
4 Seat of the Synod $1
4 Vault of Whispers $1
4 Great Furnace $1
3 Darksteel Citadel .30
3 Glimmervoid $9

~$35 for the whole deck. Cranial Plating and 7 Thopter is a beating.

coraz86

05-14-2009, 02:00 AM

Cheap Combo is also problematic, mostly because of the LEDs. I guess that Spring Tide or Permanent Waves might be doable without forces, but at that point...

Nobody mentioned Heartbeat of Spring. I remember it being rough to learn, and I don't know how viable it is as it stands, but there are lists here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9952935&postcount=6) from when it was in Standard. I remember it being a modest force at Regionals and Nats that year....the only combo I've ever really run is Solidarity (other than a couple hours of TEPS when we were readying for GP-Philly last year), so I'm not sure how to edit it, but I feel like it's a great start.
I didn't bother pricing them because they're largely composed of commons. They each use a set of Divining Tops, but other than that I didn't notice any money rares. (One wins off Maga, the other from Demonfire.)

Natthew

05-27-2009, 10:06 PM

(nameless one)

06-16-2009, 10:18 PM

Alara Reborn brought some creatures that would go great in budget thresh. The forces are the expensivest part of the deck, but they're kind of important. Here's a list that doesn't need Tarmogoyf

Creatures: 11
Nimble Mongoose x4
Lorescale Coatl x4
Qasili Pridemage x3

Instants/Sorceries: 18
Swords to Plowshares x4
Brainstorm x4
Ponder x2
Daze x4
Force of will x4

Artifacts/Enchantments: 11
Counterbalance x4
Senseis Divining Top x3
Back to Basics x4

Land: 20
Seaside Citadel x4
Terramorphic Expanse x4
Island x5
Plains x3
Forest x4

Force of Wills are still $30 a pop

on helping out the kids:

I came 1st with this budget deck. The meta was underdeveloped.

TurboElves:

7x Forest
1x Pendelhaven = $2.00

4x Heritage Druid = $4.00
4x Llanowar Elves = $2.00
4x Nettle Sentinel = $1.00
4x Quirion Ranger = $2.00
4x Elvish Visionary = $1.00
4x Priest of Titania = $14.00
4x Talara's Battalion = $16.00
4x Wren's Run Vanquisher = $6.00
4x Elvish Spirit Guide = $20.00
4x Imperious Perfect = $10.00
4x Sylvan Messenger = $2.00
2x Tribal Forcemage = $2.50
1x Elvish Champion = $6.00
1x Staff of Domination = $5.00

4x Land Grant = $2.00

Total of $95.5 (and that is Canadian Dollars!)

The deck is fast (as long as theyre are no 3Sphere in your meta LOL). It can win within turns 4-5. And a 1st turn Talara's Battalion pwns big time (cast Land Grant, pitch Elvish Spirit Guide, cast Talara's Battalion)

Maveric78f

06-19-2009, 05:51 AM

"Kill a man and you're a murderer, kill an army of men and you're a conqueror. Kill all men and you're a god"

- Wrath of God flavour text
On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conquérant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu. (Jean Rostand)

There was life on earth before Magic the Gathering appeared.

nightmaster

08-06-2009, 11:40 AM

I decided to post this here as to not clog up the actual thread but couldn't merfolk still be competitive on a budget. All you lose is Force, Mutavault, and Wasteland. You still have 12 Lords, Islandwalking, Wake Thrasher, and some counter in daze and cursecatcher even before you start putting cards back in. Without Force there are several different things you could do.
1. Just replace it with different counter (Spell Snare, Counterspell, etc.)
2. Run Counterbalance
3. Run Back to Basics
4. Make Merfolk similar to the way Goblins run by running more creatures like Tidal Courier, Tidal Warrior, More Lords, 4 Wake Thrasher, Rootwater Thief, etc.

And obviously once you get Force and such you can add them and have a top deck.

Pastorofmuppets

08-09-2009, 03:43 PM

LostButSeeking

08-10-2009, 09:11 AM

The Cascade deck in Extended could be looked at since it uses relatively cheap lands and Magister Sphinx and Progenitals aren't expensive... We'd also have access to Serra Avatar and I'm sure there's other things. The deck has vulnerability to wasteland/stifle but other than that I'm sure its good to get started in Legacy.

I'm assuming you're talking about the deck that cascades into hypergenesis. The deck is solid in extended, but the hate in legacy is SO much better than in extended its silly. A single force of will, thoughtseize, duress, countertop at 0, chalice at 0, stifle, or bloodmoon (since the deck wants to use a rainbow mana base) complete ruins the deck.

sco0ter

08-10-2009, 10:35 AM

Pastorofmuppets

08-11-2009, 01:48 AM

I'm assuming you're talking about the deck that cascades into hypergenesis. The deck is solid in extended, but the hate in legacy is SO much better than in extended its silly. A single force of will, thoughtseize, duress, countertop at 0, chalice at 0, stifle, or bloodmoon (since the deck wants to use a rainbow mana base) complete ruins the deck.

the deck can easily be run in 2-3 colors and Legacy also gives it Elvish Spirit Guide and for more funded players, Mox Diamond, leaving you open for the rainbow manabase and maybe even hitting a turn 1 cascade. with STP and more general removal than Extended you run Progenitus ($6x4=$24) Magister Sphinx ($2x4=8) and Inkwell Leviathan($2x4=8) and maybe a Sutured Ghoul or something stupid like that. I don't bother with combo too much. The deck is just cheap to build (relatively) and races C-T
Edit: and the deck is far from solid in Extended. Spellstutter Sprite costs 2. The deck can't race turn 1 in Extended with anything short of a god hand... (assuming Chrome Mox on the Fae's side, of course).

GreenOne

08-11-2009, 06:22 AM

The deck can also play Force of Will, Unmask, misdirection, Wipe Away as protection spells, if you can afford them (unmask is pretty cheap).

nightmaster

08-11-2009, 05:59 PM

I have been looking to build a pre-existing competitive deck (Not one of my pet decks) and need some advice. I want to build a deck that can perform fairly well given most metas. This means random metas, unknown metas, maybe underdeveloped ones. Here are some decks I am thinking about. I have $100-$200 to spend plus several staples of the decks listed below.

Merfolk: Have all the cheap cards. Force would probably be most of my budget. I don't now how well it performs without Waste or Muta or in random metas with aggro around.

Sui Black: Eva Green without green. I know there is a thread for it but can the deck really still perform well without Green?

Chalice Stompy: The chalice core is the most expensive part except Faerie which is way too expensive

Elves: Survival or not, can cost as low as $100.

Ichorid: LED or not, don't usually play combo and not sure how well it does in a random or unknown meta

Goyf Sligh/Dryad Sligh/Moon Sligh?: Depending on my budget maybe one of these?

Affinity: Not the best choice but can still perform every once in a while.

Any thoughts or other ideas?

keys

08-11-2009, 06:39 PM

I really think the best budget deck right now is mono red sligh/burn. Check the burn thread in the Established Decks forum. It's a lot more consistent than a lot of people give credit. It's just not as good in a counterbalance/chalice infested metagame, but even then, the list can be tweaked to deal with them.

nightmaster

08-11-2009, 09:14 PM

Except Burn is so boring to play. If I was to play sligh and couldn't afford Goyf Sligh, Dryad Sligh would be next on my list or maybe a Moon Sligh?

I am interested to hear your thoughts on Elves, Sui Black, and LED less Ichorid. I also think that White Chalice might be possible, but obviously due to no Moat's differently than Garganel Stompy.

Thoughts?

bowvamp

08-11-2009, 11:17 PM

Why not try pox? Here's a link to my build that goes for just around 350$ and if you want, you could slim the LD down a little.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=390139
Something like this:
-3 Sinkhole
+1 Wasteland
+2 Fulminator Mage
-3 Mishra's Factory
-2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
+5 Swamp
-1 Tombstalker
+1 Nihilith
-3 Chrome Mox
+3 Dark Ritual

overseer1234

08-12-2009, 02:14 AM

Sui Black: Eva Green without green. I know there is a thread for it but can the deck really still perform well without Green?
This is all but a budget deck, if you use the eva green shell, then thoughtseize, 8fetch, wasteland and sinkhole are still nescecary...

Chalice Stompy: The chalice core is the most expensive part except Faerie which is way too expensive
actually it's not that expensice, chalice isn't what it used to be, but the problems here are: Finding the 2-mana lands (not so easy to come by) and the fact it loses to rqndom jank in underdeveloped meta's

Elves: Survival or not, can cost as low as $100.
Good choice if you allready have glimpse's and pact's, the survival build is kind of expensive on the manabase

Ichorid: LED or not, don't usually play combo and not sure how well it does in a random or unknown meta LED-les ichorid is pretty cheap, and ichorid tends to win from random stuff

Goyf Sligh/Dryad Sligh/Moon Sligh?: Depending on my budget maybe one of these? mono red sligh has allway's been borderline of playable, you're better of with burn

Affinity: Not the best choice but can still perform every once in a while.With M10 rules changes this deck kind of got a big blow...

nightmaster

08-13-2009, 06:34 PM

Ya, elves and LED-Less Ichorid seem the best choices, though I would probably play aggro elves over the more combo routes.

What about Enchantress? Without Moat or duals (and I have seem ones win easily without duals) couldn't it be an good choice?

Meteorain007

10-20-2009, 12:10 PM

I've played a pretty budget RGW slide list for the past couple of tourneys I played in and it's been performing well. I made 4 consecutive top 8's (~30 ppl tourney). This deck has really good game against lots of non-combo decks (no one here plays combo). It beats merfolk pretty bad, it's decent against goblins, and probably a good 50/50 in my experience against tempo thresh.

3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Secluded Steppe
3 Forgotten Cave
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wasteland
1 Nantuko Monastery
4 Plains
4 Forest
2 Mountain

4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Eternal Witness

3 Astral Slide
3 Lightning Rift
2 Wrath of God
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Renewed Faith
4 Edge of Autumn
3 Life from the Loam

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Boil
3 Pyroclasm
3 Krosan Grip

Most of the deck's cost is in the landbase, but there's only 4 fetches so that's not too bad. I suppose they could be replaced with terramorphics or jungle shrines. Wasteland is a tad expensive but there's only 1. Wrath of God's prices have dropped bc of the new standard, and pithing needle is mad cheap too. No tarmogoyf, knight does the job just as well and sometimes better.

Finks is there to slow down goblins, burn and other aggro. It's amazing as well w/ slide. Knight can be used to search for fetches, wasteland, monastery, and it gets bigger than goyf with cycling lands. Edge of Autumn has great synergy with Flagstones of trokair. There's a lot of synergy in this deck and the generated card advantage can be overwhelming.

nightmaster

11-22-2009, 06:01 PM

If you can build an entire deck except for Force of Will or Tarmogoyf, which one would it be easier to be without? I think goyf because depending on your colors there are plenty of other creatures that while not as good, can take its place and still work. In contrast, nothing can really take the place of Force as other counters will just be too slow. Yes there is Daze but you probably will already be running it.

Thoughts?

Phoenix Ignition

11-22-2009, 07:38 PM

Depending on the deck you should be able to work around the Goyf.

If you have Noble Hierarchs in there you can easily just throw in some Rhox War Monk, Trygon Predator, Lorescale Coatl (gets huge fast if you protect it), and the often overlooked Serendib Efreet as creatures that you put out on turn 2.

Even without the Hierarch, all of those creatures are pretty dang good on their own, and 2 of them can face down 1 goyf anyday (okay, that sucks, but still it's relevant).

Against a lot of decks what creature you have doesn't matter too much (like against combo or control decks), as long as you can protect it well enough or live through their combo attempt. Force is way better if you have to pick between the two.

DukeDemonKn1ght

11-22-2009, 08:59 PM

Against a lot of decks what creature you have doesn't matter too much (like against combo or control decks), as long as you can protect it well enough or live through their combo attempt. Force is way better if you have to pick between the two.

Agreed. I still have a salty expression on my face from sleeping on the Tarmogoyf phenomenon and now having a $200 buy-in fee looming above my head if I ever want to play certain decks.

However, one of my fondest memories as a Magic player is back in '96. I was about fourteen, and I had just read some article in Inquest that convinced me that counterspells were fundamentally good and it wasn't just completely pointless not to try to ramp up mana for a Fireball or a Craw Wurm (which was pretty much the only strategy me and my friends gave a shit about back then).

So I went and traded my friends a bunch of green and red cards, which they were happy as hell to get, but probably sucked in retrospect, and I got the same playset of Force of Wills that I've been sitting on for the past thirteen years. I think I remember trading a Llurghoyf for one of them. My only regret is that I stopped at four copies, because seriously, those things were pretty easy to get ahold of back in the day if you had a playgroup that understood as little about the strategy of the game as me and all my friends did back then. :wink:

Moral of the story is: If you're gonna choose one, I'd choose Force of Will. Unless you're one of those people that just fundamentally does not want to use blue.

loveisgreen

12-01-2009, 02:50 PM

I had a severe budget storm deck for a while, and I actually won enough events with it to afford the rest of ANT with the store credit I had.

4x Empty the Warrens
4x Manamorphose
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Peer through Depths
4x Lotus Petal
4x Desperate Ritual
3x Gamble
2x Tendrils of Agony
4x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Shivan Reef
7x Island
4x Mountain

It's pretty ghetto but Terramorphic acts like a fetch for brainstorm and Gamble is just hilarious. Without the Gambles this deck is absurdly cheap (probably less than $20) and is still wildly competitive with some of the lists out there.

grahf

12-06-2009, 12:40 AM

A deck without Force of Will or Tarmogoyf... the first thing that comes to my mind is Enchantress!

Explorations and Moat are not necessary. Gaea's Touch does a decent and sometimes better impression of the former, and the latter could be replaced with Ghostly Prison as long as you are loaded up on Elephant Grasses and Solitary Confinements, which are more important anyways. That makes the most expensive cards are probably Replenish and Serra's Sanctum (and, as a whole, the 8 Enchantresses).

The downside is of course that these cards go in virtually no other deck. And maybe it's not the best competitive meta choice right now. You'll crush random aggro, but aggro-control is tough and other combo will just win faster. But hey, you get to play with hot babes wearing fur, and then draw about half your deck by turn 6. It's a lot of fun, I promise.

Mark Sun

12-08-2009, 02:12 AM

Otter

12-08-2009, 03:06 AM

Just go look at the Berserk Stompy list in the established decks forum. Doesn't play Goyf, a set of FTV Berserks costs 80 bucks, and the rest of the deck isn't worth anything. Whole thing total costs about 100.

stuckpixel

12-08-2009, 11:40 AM

Problem with spending money on 'zerks is that they're good in one or two decks and thats about it.

A lot of people run Predator Kavu with Invigorate (and sometime skyshroud cutter) to give you a big fatty to trample through. Vines of Vastwood and Talara's Batallion could also be fantastic additions to the deck (and at a very low cost)

Otter

12-08-2009, 11:59 AM

The problem with not spending money on Berserk is that when your deck literally scoops to Chalice @ 1 or Countertop, it needs to be ridiculously fast to give you a chance. It's not worth building without the Berserks, that's literally the only card that everyone in the thread actually agrees should go in the deck. As far as the full build of it costs, it's one of the cheapest decks in the format. That's it's budget advantage, trying to make it more budget than that isn't worth it.

You'd be better off playing something like Affinity without Ravagers, at least Cranial Plating + Fling/Soul's Fire gives you random wins out of nowhere with commons.

stuckpixel

12-08-2009, 12:31 PM

Speed isn't going to stop a Chalice @ 1. The deck is a deck dependent on the metagame, with or without zerks. If you are playing in a ctop infested meta, you shouldn't be playing it.

If it's a meta where playing it works, then sure zerks would be better, but if you're looking at a budget deck to give the noob kid who wants to give legacy a whirl, dropping 80 on zerks probably isn't what you had in mind.

Otter

12-08-2009, 12:56 PM

Speed isn't going to stop a Chalice @ 1. The deck is a deck dependent on the metagame, with or without zerks. If you are playing in a ctop infested meta, you shouldn't be playing it.

No, but my point is that since the deck is a complete dog to two rather common plays of the format, it really needs to make up those losses by having a lot of raw power elsewhere. If for every time you scoop to an Ancient Tomb -> Chalice @ 1 start, you get to blow another guy out with a turn two kill, your results are a lot more solid. Just because Chalice and CB don't define your meta doesn't mean you won't have random "oops, I lose" games.

If it's a meta where playing it works, then sure zerks would be better, but if you're looking at a budget deck to give the noob kid who wants to give legacy a whirl, dropping 80 on zerks probably isn't what you had in mind.

And if you want to give them a budget deck to give legacy a whirl, handing them $10 x-land stompy instead of $10 Affinity (maybe $15? What does Master of Etherium cost?) is a cruel joke. Affinity has diversified costs and can try to fight through to Chalice/Countertop, reach with Shrap/Fling/Soulsfire, explosive starts with Plating, and decent ability to recoup lost CA with Thoughtcast/Thirst/that 1U draw2; sac a permanent from Coldsnap that I can't think of the name of. Stompy has no reach, no CA, and not particularly more explosive starts without Berserk. Unless your metagame is somehow flooded with Pernicious Deed and Energy Flux (this seems less likely than running into Chalice and Countertop), budget affinity is better than budget stompy.

(nameless one)

01-28-2010, 09:09 AM

Currently, there is a budget tournament going on with $50 as their budget.

I was gonna join that tournament too (with Clerics!) but iPhones and PS3s do not support MWS unfortunately.

I say that after the tournament, it will be helpful for everyone to post their respective budget decklist.

nightmaster

02-01-2010, 12:35 PM

Here is my situation. Right now I have Mono Black Aggro and Affinity. I have the chance to get most of a goblin deck but it would involve trading away most of my Mono Black Deck. My fear is that while Goblins is a good deck, is has been on the decline for a while and most people hate it out very effectively. Also, it is a similar deck to Affinity. My question is should I trade away Mono Black for Goblins or keep Mono Black since I already have Affinity.

coraz86

02-01-2010, 02:03 PM

I don't know if this will help nightmaster or not, but I know when I went to Penn State-Erie, there was a gigantic and tightly-knit Gamers' Club populated heavily with Magic players. Besides the fact that the players were cool with swapping stuff they didn't use back and forth, the club also had a stack of five-rows in the office full of Magic cards dumped there for the collective good. People who won a lot of packs or came by extra shit when they bought collections would dump it there for the have-nots to strip mine. If you're in college, or you're not in college but have friends/relatives who are, you might see if you can gain access to such a thing so you don't have to decimate your own collection to get where you want to be. There usually wasn't anything spectacular in there, but sometimes you'd find solid stuff like Daze and Lightning Bolt in ours.

nightmaster

02-01-2010, 10:02 PM

I do this all the time with my friends. The problem is that they are all Standard players so they don't really have any legacy staples. But I really would like to know what people think about my situation. My gut says go Goblins but I really don't know. Thoughts?

Hrelja

02-10-2010, 12:02 PM

Hello guys,

I'd like some help.

The situation is:

I'd like to have a deck for Legacy, but I play the format like once a year. That's why I wouldn't like to spend much.

I prefer combo decks, and I've seen some lists on this very topic. Although, I like other decks as well, not just combos.
For example, I have the cards for burn for Extended. What I'd spend is about 60 US$. I'd like to get a deck that could easily be upgraded to a fully playable one with like 4-10 pricier cards.

Could you help me out?

Pysethus

03-01-2010, 01:40 PM

Hrelja I'd go for Spring Tide or Dredge if you want to play cheapskate combo in Legacy.

Spring Tide is perhaps the cheapest combo deck playable in (semi) competitive Legacy. I'd look for decklists here (http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?type=Spring+Tide&format=Legacy). Just dump FOWs and you'd be fine. The deck is not very good but I know it would be great fun.

Dredge is another good choice for combo but that's more expensive. Anyway, I'd say it's worth it. My friend plays LEDless Dredge and he paid ~100€ (~135$) for his deck. He has attended just 2-3 tournaments with the deck and he's already won a Volcanic Island plus 15€ store credits. So I'd say the deck is pretty good. :)

Bahamuth

05-15-2010, 06:51 AM

LEDless dredge is the best option. I'd think you can get that for 60$ if you try hard (maybe a little more because of the lands, but it's worth it) . It's definitely a competitive deck and it can be 'upgraded' (not everyone agrees that LED versions are better) with 4 LED later on.

Neuad

06-06-2010, 09:22 PM

Looking for a good mono-black deck, possibly that includes Quest for the Gravelord, Blood Seeker, Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and Tendrils of Corruption or some combination of those cards, as those are some of the better blacks I have.

samurai_socks

06-07-2010, 11:21 PM

Players who play Standard and/or Extended often ask me for budget lists for legacy decks. They are either fair weather players or players who are on a strict budget. Building on a budget
I generally advise a three tier approach for individuals who are on a strict budget.

1. Build with what you have and optimize as much as possible.
a. Build
b. Play
c. Test

2. Buy select cards that will significantly strengthen the deck without breaking the budget.
a. Make a sideboard
b. Take it to a tournament for a whirl

3. Buy cards that will be good in your long-term investment.
a. See what cards overlap the highest number of decks and invest in those.

Stage 1

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Captivating Vampire (New Vamp from M11)
4 Vampire Nocturnus
20 Creatures

4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Smother
4 Grim Discovery
16 Spells

11 swamps
6 Verdant Catacombs/Marsh Flats
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Bojuka Bog
22 Land

Stage 2

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Captivating Vampire
4 Vampire Nocturnus
20 Creatures

4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Smother
4 Grim Discovery
16 Spells

9 swamps
6 Verdant Catacombs/ Marsh Flats
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Bojuaka Bog
4 Wasteland
24 Land

Stage 3

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Captivating Vampire
2 Vampire Nocturnus
22 Creatures

4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Smother
2 Grim Discovery
14 Spells

10 swamps
4 Verdant Catacombs/ Marsh Flats
3 Dark Depths
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
24 Land

Sideboards are also very important (perhaps even more so for the budget player). Some cards can be acquired very cheaply (i.e. -Bojuka Bog, Relic of Progenitus). Whilst some are rather more expensive to acquire (i.e. - Leyline of the Void).

Here is a sample sideboard, which should work well for a varied but powerful legacy metagame.

SB:
3 Perish
4 Engineered Plague
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Diabolic Edict

Obviously this is NOT a tier one legacy deck but it is a deck that can be acquired to stage 2 for a very reasonable cost before deciding whether it is worth pursuing or changing to another deck. Hence why i think cards overlap is so important (Wasteland and Bob are relatively ubiquitous in the format, whereas dark depths is not if you play extended though then going this route with a deck makes sense).

Any specific questions let me know.

-Cheers-