urza's guilt

[joshisme]

urza's guilt reads: Each player draws two cards, then discards three cards, then loses 4 life. If myself and and opponent both have 4 life, and i play this and i have a megrim and an underworld dreams in play, is it a draw or does the damage from the discarding/drawing kill the opponent before i take the damage?

[shaftshaftner]

At the end of Urza's Guilt's resolution, you will both be at 0 life and the Megrim and Underground Dreams triggers will be on the stack. SBEs are checked and it's a draw before the triggers resolve.

[yggdrasil]

At the end of Urza's Guilt's resolution, you will both be at 0 life and the Megrim and Underground Dreams triggers will be on the stack. SBEs are checked and it's a draw before the triggers resolve.
nitpick: actually, the SBEs are checked and make the game a draw even before the trigger go on the stack. /nitpick

[shaftshaftner]

nitpick: actually, the SBEs are checked and make the game a draw even before the trigger go on the stack. /nitpick

Thanks. Just for clarification, SBEs are checked after the triggers go on the stack as well?

[yggdrasil]

Thanks. Just for clarification, SBEs are checked after the triggers go on the stack as well?
Here's the relevant rule:


408.1b Spells and activated abilities are played by players (if they choose) using a system of
priority, while other kinds of abilities and effects are automatically generated by the game rules.
Each time a player would get priority, all applicable state-based effects resolve first as a single
event (see rule 420, “State-Based Effects”). Then, if any new state-based effects have been
generated, they resolve as a single event. This process repeats until no more applicable statebased
effects are generated. Then triggered abilities are added to the stack (see rule 410,
“Handling Triggered Abilities”). These steps repeat in order until no further state-based effects
or triggered abilities are generated. Then the player who would have received priority does so
and may play a spell or ability, take a special action (such as playing a land), or pass, as
governed by the rules for that phase or step.

[Pinder]

Some clarification:

Triggered abilities can trigger during the resolution of a spell or ability, but the abilities themselves are put onto the stack the next time a player would receive priority after the spell resolves. Unfortunately, state-based effects are also checked whenever a player would receive priority, and the game ends in a draw before the abilities are put onto the stack. It looks like this:

1. Urza's Guilt starts resolving.
2. During the resolution, each player draws two cards. Underworld Dreams triggers.
3. Still during resolution, each player discards three cards. Megrim triggers.
4. Still during resolution, each player loses four life. Both you and your opponent go to zero life.
5. Urza's Guilt finishes resolving.
6. State-based effects are checked.
7. The game ends in a draw when it sees that both players are at zero life.

If both players were still alive after Urza's Guilt finished resolving, then the abilities would go onto the stack right after step 6. The triggers would go in APNAP order, so the triggers for whoever's turn it is would go on the stack first, and therefore resolve last.