Proper Tournament Etiquette

[Thehunter820]

Within the next month or month and a half, I plan on going to play in a tournament, I've only recently started playing magic and I havent played in an official tournament before, so for the sake of me and the people I'm going with I was wondering if someone could fill me in on an proper etiquette one might need to know, also, other things will be useful like:

How do you shuffle?

How do you sideboard(any special ways)?

How do you lay your mana?

Basically anything that could make one a better player, or a more organized player.

[NeXuS]

How do you shuffle?

9 pile :)

How do you sideboard?

SB after g2 and g3 just make sure you take out the same card you put in.

How do you lay your mana?

Just announce what your playing and only 1 play land a turn (you should know that :P)

Ill link you to some finals videos when i get home. You can watch them and take something from that.

[undone]

7 pile is most common.

If you actualy know the mechanics of SBing then you have to identify the bad cards and take them out for good cards in the SB

Play your mana behind your spells

being organized, get a deck box, sleaves, and dice and make sure it all fits inside your box. Keep a pen and paper as well.

[nitewolf9]

Quite possibly the most important thing for you to know is to always ask a judge if you have a question. Never ask your opponent. Also, take a little time to think about what you're doing before you do it. Hasty decisions usually lead to play mistakes.



How do you shuffle?


Generally I pile shuffle once, making 8 piles and counting as I go (with 8 piles you'll be left with 4 cards on the last pass with a 60 card deck) to make sure my deck is all there. Then riffle shuffle a few times (I usually just side shuffle 3 or 4 times before presenting my deck). Also, ALWAYS shuffle your opponenet's deck.



How do you sideboard?


First things first, always check your sideboard before every GAME (and don't forget, now you can look at it at any point during the match you wish). When sideboarding the best strategy is generally to shuffle in your entire sideboard and then go through and take out the cards that are the least useful in the matchup, or that do not suit whatever strategy you are trying to implement post-board. This masks how many cards you are brining in post board and also helps you make better boarding decisions.



How do you lay your mana?


I don't generally unless it is a limited tourney and I need to make a mana base on the fly. Just make sure your deck matches what you registered on the sheet and you're good to go.
edit: ah, I see what you meant. Make sure it's not clumped in one pile so both you and your opponent know how you are tapping it.

Most of all, have fun and relax. Magic is supposed to be fun, win or lose. Don't be an ass and you'll probably meet a bunch of cool people in the process.

Edit again: There are a few articles floating around here, most by Mike Flores I think, in sticky's that are quite useful (about cheating, role assignment, general strategy, etc.). Might be a good idea to check those out as well.

[Thehunter820]

I know how to play i've been doing that with people that play at tournaments for quite a while, im just always to busy or dont have a ride to go, I know when to side and all that but I mean any special ways of siding, like some people shuffle their side in and take out 15 cards, and like do you stack your mana or place them in groups or just make each land seperate.

[Elficidium]

Within the next month or month and a half, I plan on going to play in a tournament, I've only recently started playing magic and I havent played in an official tournament before, so for the sake of me and the people I'm going with I was wondering if someone could fill me in on an proper etiquette one might need to know, also, other things will be useful like:

How do you shuffle?

How do you sideboard?

How do you lay your mana?

Basically anything that could make one a better player, or a more organized player.

First of all, be there on time, preregister if possible and make sure you have a clean readable, preferably printed, decklist with you.

Once you're paired, be sure to greet your opponent, a handshake will do and it's also a great way to make sure you're playing the right person.

Shuffling is largely personal taste, whatever 2 methods suit you most and don't take too much time. Don't forget to present your deck at least once to your opponent.

Sideboarding is also a matter of taste, but here I'd just make sure your opponent doesn't see your cards. Also, always keep your sideboard clearly separated from your deck.

The way your put your lands/mana is also up to you. Most players put it behind their other permanents, closest to them. I've seen some players put them in from or between other permanents, which is usually the case with combo-decks, where amounts of mana are very important. Clarity is key here, you opponent should always be able to see how much lands you have tapped and untapped.

In terms of general hints: make sure you have something to write, written down life-totals are a lot easier if something goes wrong or there is a dispute. You're also allowed to take notes during the match, use this to your advantage, if you can quickly write down his/her hand when you thoughtseize, do so. Also, you're allowed to put a reminder on top of your deck, this is very important if you tend to forget upkeep-triggers such as Pacts or Vials.

That would be the most important stuff, aside from the obvious such as sleep/eat/drink enough beforehand so you're as concentrated as possible.

[Zach Tartell]

Remember to have fun, dude. That's probably the most important part of tournaments. If you're not smiling, there ain't no reason to be there. And don't be more of a cock than is necessary. Like, if you opponent is engaging in small talk while you're shuffling up, don't like ignore him or something. That is alot different, than, say, letting your opponent play something differently that'd give him the win. Be polite and shit, but don't be afraid to laugh. This is a game, after all.

[TeenieBopper]

Don't be a dick.

[Jaynel]

Remember to have fun, dude. That's probably the most important part of tournaments. If you're not smiling, there ain't no reason to be there. And don't be more of a cock than is necessary. Like, if you opponent is engaging in small talk while you're shuffling up, don't like ignore him or something. That is alot different, than, say, letting your opponent play something differently that'd give him the win. Be polite and shit, but don't be afraid to laugh. This is a game, after all.

QFT. This is the best advice you can take from the thread.

[freakish777]

Play your mana behind your spells

I would like to add to this, try to keep your hand behind everything on the table. I once played against someone who was in the bad habit of holding his hand in front of some of the cards he played. I had to ask him several times what he had in play, it gets old for everyone if your opponent has to repeatedly ask you the same thing, when it's a simple as being in the habit of making it clear what you have in play.


I'll echo lonelybaritone and Teeniebopper, have fun and try not to be a dick. In some circumstances you can't help it (like you ask to count your opponent's sideboard and they don't have exactly 15 cards).

Pile shuffle your opponent's deck. Choose a random round to count the number of cards in your opponent's deck (a self-policing group of players is an added measure to keeping cheaters out, and help honest but sloppy players tighten up, just be polite).

Before each match, make sure you count your own maindeck and sideboard, and make sure the cards in your sideboard are correct (obviously if someone else can make a mistake as simple as not sideboarding out the right or right number of cards, you can too).


When pairings go up, look at what your table number is, and your opponent's name. Greet your opponent by name (this helps make sure you're at the right table), and introduce yourself.

[Jujuhawk]

Don't be a dick.

I don't even know you and I love you.

I generally pile shuffle in 7 piles and then mash shuffle a few times.

For sideboarding I put in all 15 cards and then shuffle and take out 15 cards that don't implement my post board strategy or are cards that are dead in the matchup. This hides how many SB cards you have and also helps alot with making decisions.

For laying my mana I usually just have it in rows of color or basic/nonbasic etc. I also seperate utility lands from just normal mana lands. Be sure to have all of your lands seperated at least a little bit to avoid the "OMG you hid that treetop you cheater" or whatever.

Another thing, having a playmat like a GP one can help you keep your side of the table more organized. I have a GP New Jersey playmat. Not only does it look cool but it keeps your sleeves from getting scratched or dirty and it has different zones for your deck, graveyard, red zone, etc. I ALWAYS play with my mat at big tournaments to keep myself organized and keep my sleeves clean so I don't have to buy new oens every 3 rounds.

Also, be sure to have dice and a note pad or paper since keeping life-total on paper is better since it can't be knocked over like dice and if there is a life-total dispute whoever has paper generally wins the dispute.

[freakish777]

paper

Yeah, keep track of life totals on paper, and if possible what caused the damage.

Having:

19 (fetch)
17 (Confidant reveals Tarmogoyf)

Is a lot more useful than a die (shorthand such as, Bob->Goyf) also helps make sure you don't take extra time).

[FoolofaTook]

Remember to have fun, dude. That's probably the most important part of tournaments. If you're not smiling, there ain't no reason to be there. And don't be more of a cock than is necessary. Like, if you opponent is engaging in small talk while you're shuffling up, don't like ignore him or something. That is alot different, than, say, letting your opponent play something differently that'd give him the win. Be polite and shit, but don't be afraid to laugh. This is a game, after all.

Small talk is great but don't let your opponent distract you from doing all the things you need to do to stay legal and proper in your play. Also if you think your opponent is talking as a distraction it's permissible to ask him for a moment's peace as you make your decisions.

You'd be surprised how many people talk as a weapon during games. Be particularly careful not to listen to anything your opponent says about his deck, 9 times out of 10 he's leading you astray (as in "ok, now all I have to worry about is Back to Basics" just before you sideboard.)

[Zach Tartell]

Small talk is great but don't let your opponent distract you from doing all the things you need to do to stay legal and proper in your play. Also if you think your opponent is talking as a distraction it's permissible to ask him for a moment's peace as you make your decisions.

You'd be surprised how many people talk as a weapon during games. Be particularly careful not to listen to anything your opponent says about his deck, 9 times out of 10 he's leading you astray (as in "ok, now all I have to worry about is Back to Basics" just before you sideboard.)

There's a difference between "Sweet! Now I get to board out my combo!" and "So, Brandon, where are you from?"

I was playing a couple FMN's in NYC some months ago, and ran into the most... obstinate opponents I'd ever played. Mind you, I'm Mr. Small Town, only-here-on-school-business-and-woefully-out-of-his-element man, and let me tell you how little other Magic players enjoyed it:

Not at all.

Dief and I were doing a draft at a place near-ish to his place in Brooklyn, and I sat down against my first round opponent, began shuffling, and casually questioned, "So, where are you from [whatever his name was]?" I got the dirtiest look I've ever seen in a comic book shop, and the super inviting god-this-guy's-an-ass-and-I-immediatly-wish-I-didn't-have-to-speak-to-him-ever-again tone of his one word answer ("Brooklyn") made me feel like a cock. It's okay, though. His opponent some rounds later talked about his girlfriend/mother/sister/sleeves and he flipped shit, screaming and being restrained as two or three of his bulkier friends walked him out of the shop.

It's a game guys, and I don't want to hear anything different. If you're reading the "Format Discussion" forum on a Legacy site you aren't even close to approaching this as a way of life (as I understand certain pros are able to do once they reach a level of prestiege or something); shut up, sit down, shake your opponent's hand, and ask him how his day was.

And smile, damnit.

[Bryant Cook]

And smile, damnit.

No. I'm generally pretty nice to my opponents. I'm sarcastically cocky and kinda dickish at times tho.

[Wallace]

No. I'm generally pretty nice to my opponents. I'm sarcastically cocky and kinda dickish at times tho.

Bryant is really nice while playing, especially when he brings bologna and jelly sandwiches for everyone! mmmm.....

[Arsenal]

Don't be a dick.

I cannot stress this enough. I had opponents in the past who wanted to shuffle my library, which is not a problem at all. However, their shuffling was so aggressive that my cards and corners were actually BENT (thus marked) afterwards. Coincidentally, watching that very opponent shuffle his deck, he was very careful and made sure not to crease anything, bend any corners (when you pat the cards bottoms against the table), etc... I was so mad you have no idea.

[Bryant Cook]

Don't be a dick.

Ironic much?

[mujadaddy]

Don't be a dick.
Or an asshole? :tongue:

[TeenieBopper]

Ironic much?

Not at all. I think I'm pleasant enough to play against. I'm not as nice as say, Zach, but I also think I'm not the dude where my opponent walks back to his friends after a match going, "God damn, he was a fuckin' dick." How many times have you turned one'd me? A lot. How often did I get really pissed off, or called you lucky, or insulted you? Not many. But hey, we all slip sometimes, too.

There are a few things that make up the "Don't be a dick" thing. The first is this: Magic has an element of luck. Deal with it. Sometimes you mull to five and a one lander. It sucks, but it happens to everybody. You're not special. It doesn't happen to you more than it happens to me. Don't deride your opponent for drawing multiple Forces or his one out or whatever, because you've done it too. Think it all you want, but don't insult him for being "lucky." Similarly, don't gloat over the fact that you had the double force. That shit's just as annoying.

On a related note- yeah, Magic has an element of luck, but you getting unlucky or your opponent getting lucky are not the reasons you lose every single game. You're not as good as you think you are. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of people who have ever played this game who are as good as they thought they were. There's an 85% chances that somewhere along the way, you fucked up. You kept a hand you shouldn't have, you played the wrong land, you played your spells in the wrong order, you didn't anticipate a play or a card you should have. Whatever. You lost the game, not luck.

Basically, it comes down to this- it's a goddamn game. Sure, be upset that you didn't win- I do it too, I'm competative- but drop it when the match is over, or shortly after. Don't piss and moan and grip for hours afterwards, because there's nothing more annoying. Fucking suck it up and have fun. And if you're not having fun, stop playing. You're ruining it for the rest of us.

[frolll]

Woah. Don't want to spam the board, but, a big fat +1 to the last TeenieBooper post.

The first is this: Magic has an element of luck. Deal with it. Sometimes you mull to five and a one lander. It sucks, but it happens to everybody. You're not special. It doesn't happen to you more than it happens to me. Don't deride your opponent for drawing multiple Forces or his one out or whatever, because you've done it too. Think it all you want, but don't insult him for being "lucky." Similarly, don't gloat over the fact that you had the double force. That shit's just as annoying.

On a related note- yeah, Magic has an element of luck, but you getting unlucky or your opponent getting lucky are not the reasons you lose every single game. You're not as good as you think you are. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of people who have ever played this game who are as good as they thought they were. There's an 85% chances that somewhere along the way, you fucked up. You kept a hand you shouldn't have, you played the wrong land, you played your spells in the wrong order, you didn't anticipate a play or a card you should have. Whatever. You lost the game, not luck.

That is so much more worthy than any SCG strategy shit.

And, don't be a dick, obv.

[thefreakaccident]

Try to keep yourself from flicking your cards, or doing any thing else annoying/repetative during a game... I usually have a real hard time keeping myself from doing that myself most of the time... also, don't stall/take too long to shuffle, there will always be that asshole that calls you on it, even if you are really just thinking.

Things to keep in mind before a tourney:

1. be polite, if you are polite to them, they will usually treat you the same.

2. don't be afraid to ask a question to the judge, especially if the question is important.

3. have fun, a game is not worth playing unless you have fun playing that game.

[Jaiminho]

also, don't stall/take too long to shuffle, there will always be that asshole that calls you on it, even if you are really just thinking.

The thing is that after you have lost a game, your opponent might be that ass for stalling. I've called on an opponent for this (he took 5 minutes SBing after game 1), forcing him to speed up, but not forcing him to think faster, and won the third game right on the 5 turns.

[DeathwingZERO]

I cannot stress this enough. I had opponents in the past who wanted to shuffle my library, which is not a problem at all. However, their shuffling was so aggressive that my cards and corners were actually BENT (thus marked) afterwards. Coincidentally, watching that very opponent shuffle his deck, he was very careful and made sure not to crease anything, bend any corners (when you pat the cards bottoms against the table), etc... I was so mad you have no idea.

As far as what to do when your opponent is a dick like this, report them IMMEDIATELY. This particular style of "shuffling" is known to be cheating, as several players have been caught doing it at larger tournaments, not only because it causes damage to property (an actual out of game illegal offense, and depending on the damage you can press charges) as well as an attempt to DQ you in a tournament. Even if it's not enough to get the law in on it, it's enough to get their DCI abilities banned.

Also, if you are 100% sure someone is cheating, NEVER hesitate to out them. Immediately ask for a judge, describe the situation, and if any luck is on your side, there may have been a witness. While this is a game, there's still a number of shady and shifty players. All of us want this to be a gentleman's game, even if it is just a game.

[Jaiminho]

Oh, yeah. Don't ever try to take an advantage out of a situation. Such as waiting for your opponent to draw a card to call a judge saying he had 8 cards in hand and didn't discard or waiting until the match began to say your opponent has 59 cards in his deck. On summary, stuff you know but then wait until you can take profit of them to call on it. If judges spot bad intentions on these, you might get DQed.

[Lego]

also, don't stall/take too long to shuffle, there will always be that asshole that calls you on it, even if you are really just thinking.

The reason you shouldn't do this is the same reason that "that asshole" will call you on it: it's illegal. Contrary to popular belief, the complexity of the game state, how close you are to the end of the game, the number of possible outcomes to a given action, etc. do NOT give you more time to take an action. You always have the same amount of time; most judges will say about 10-30 seconds. After that, it's slowplay. If it's intentional, it's stalling. Just because there are 37 different creatures in play and both players are at 4 doesn't give you more time to act.


Oh, yeah. Don't ever try to take an advantage out of a situation. Such as waiting for your opponent to draw a card to call a judge saying he had 8 cards in hand and didn't discard or waiting until the match began to say your opponent has 59 cards in his deck. On summary, stuff you know but then wait until you can take profit of them to call on it. If judges spot bad intentions on these, you might get DQed.

A lot of times you don't have to wait to "take advantage" of situations like these. If your opponent presents a deck with 59 cards, that's exactly the same as starting a game with 59 cards. Meaning that if you're shuffling his deck, and it doesn't have 60 cards, he might as well have started with it, because he already has an illegal list.

But you're right: if the judge thinks you knew about something and didn't call the judge, you're in big trouble.

[Van Phanel]

Actually at GP Stuttgart a player saw his opponent forgetting to shuffle his Oblivion Ring back in (he had even taken back the card removed by it).

His opponent presented 39 cards, he called the judge and his opponent got the gameloss for presenting an illegal deck. There was a long discussion in a German forum and the conclusion was that it was not the nice way, but it was by no means cheating either. Multiple Judges including Falko Goerres (Level3, probably a GP headjudge soon) confirmed that (reasoning: It is not your job to prevent an opponent from making a mistake).

I have to admit that at a GP when there's much to win or lose (they were playing for day2 at 6-2 both), I don't know if I had told my opponent.

Of course that's an entirely different thing in an FNM or a small Legacy-Tournament, where you are playing for fun and you can't lose more than 5€ (or 8$) worth of prizes.

[Anusien]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/15596.html
I feel like I answered a lot of these questions here, please take a look.

Now, tailor your play based on the size of the tournament. I've found that in a weekly tournament here, it's better to keep good relations with the players to get splits by not calling a judge in certain situations, especially if I'm already winning.

[Arsenal]

This is true too. You definitely don't want to alienate your already miniscule Legacy playerbase over a ticky-tack mistake. But in a large tourney w/ few friends, I'd pay very close attention to mistakes and possible cheating.

[rleader]

On the slow play note, I have a question about theory:

How nice are you folks when playing against slow decks?

I was playing a STD tourney that was Rav-TSP against a guy playing urza-martyr-tron-turbo-fog concoction. Yeah, no shit. I was playing a bad highly budget tribal-soldiers boros deck wins (with bloodmoon!) type job.

First game, he gets out all four howling mines, I slowly beat him to 12, he stabilizes, I play four lightning helixes at his end of turn. Hilarity.

Game two, I make some bad misplays, he thinks he's going to crush me, but I have desolation giants (I told you it was a bad deck!) from my sb to answer all his stormherds that threaten to actually end the game. Again, howling mines out early. He asks me to agree to a shortcut to do my discard step during his beginning phases to save time, as discarding three or four each turn was a bit time intensive.

I agree to this but it allows him enough time to mill me during the very last extra turn after time had been called.

So we ended up with a tie with no third game. Obviously, if I didn't agree to the "friendly" shortcut, I would have won 1-0-0, and might have taken a place or two higher in the tournament as he was my last match (ended at 4th, no top 8).

I talked to Chris Richter about it and he said it was an acceptable shortcut but I wasn't required to take it.

While Legacy matchups rarely stall as badly (unless someone is an incompetent combo player) just because of the card quality, the burden of not slow playing against some decks is fairly one-sided and oppressive.

When a slow deck (one that doesn't even intend to play three full games) is firing on all cylinders, winning a game one s l o w e l y, it often allows its pilot to be pretty lethargic if not verging over into illegal slow play.

OTOH, when you crush them game one, all of a sudden they need two wins with their deck and they're accusing you of slow play every turn as they pant and hyperventilate while flicking the tops of their cards and bouncing up and down on their seat.

Obviously, you can't let their behavior affect you, though I have to admit that it was taxing on me in that one situation and I punted the match by being a nice guy. Due to his behavior, I honestly felt like I was slow playing by thinking about each of my discards -- sure, most of the time it was obvious, but it was within my rights to consider what the hell I was doing during my own turn. (and of course, I was unable to watch him for drawing extra cards, cheating, etc., during his early steps).

Anyway, just something to think about in general for people who hop in and out of the tourney scene like the OP. Don't act like the regulars "belong" there more than you do, like you're some sort of tourist or something.

[FoolofaTook]

I cannot stress this enough. I had opponents in the past who wanted to shuffle my library, which is not a problem at all. However, their shuffling was so aggressive that my cards and corners were actually BENT (thus marked) afterwards. Coincidentally, watching that very opponent shuffle his deck, he was very careful and made sure not to crease anything, bend any corners (when you pat the cards bottoms against the table), etc... I was so mad you have no idea.

If you have a concern about how an opponent is handling your deck just have the judge shuffle and do what else needs to be done. He'll get tired of it really quickly and then your opponent's manners will become better.

I had one opponent I played twice in the wayback who was so filthy I literally would not let him touch my cards. I'm talking chocolate stains (I hoped) AND pizza grease on his fingers and he was slinging his sleeveless deck (nobody played with sleeves back then) around with them like a pile of grease rags. He reached over to cut my deck and I told him I'd chop his hand off if it landed. The tourney organizer cut for him after that.

[Rock Lee]

These are mostly mimed from previous responses, but these are the pieces of advise I give to my teammate when he very rarely frequents events.

1 ) If you are even unfamiliar with a card's exact oracle text, (This can happen often in Eternal formats), you can always call a judge and have the oracle text presented. You can also ask an opponent is the written text is the same as the oracle text, which they have to respond to truthfully. Some people get edgy and upset when their opponents call judges, but think of it this way; NOT calling a judge is only giving your opponent an advantage in a situation you are unclear about.

While your opponent does have to respond honestly about non-private information, they are under no obligation to give excess information. Similarly so, a judge will only respond to Yes/No questions regardless of your intent, which will often not yield the full picture regarding most interactions. USE YOUR HEAD, Don't lose it.

2 ) Expect deception always. suspect malicious intent anywhere. trust only yourself. It might sound cliche, But this is how I personally love to play magic. This is WHY I play magic. I enjoy the pressure, ruthlessness, and mind games that you get from Tournament Play. This is why casual magic seems lacking to me, it doesn't ignite the drive that pushes most successful Tournament Players. If I'm not slammed to the absolute limit, where I have to maximize every single choice over the course of 9+ hours, I'm dissapointed.

In the same light though, this isn't a license to be an arse; infact it is quite the opposite. Often the "dick" and 'asshole' players mentioned previously are often the worst players. They get so consumed with themselves they miss critical information. Very very rarely are the nastiest players the best. Similarly, very very rarely are the nicest players the best. Tournament Play has a mental component to it that requires meticulously intricate interactions, not extremes in either direction.

3 ) Want to win, don't expect to win. As with most competative games and enterprises, you often go heavily negative before you go positive. So be prepared for all sorts of new challenges. (I vividly recall Travis Leplant Stomping my Face for multiple weekly vintage tournaments with moxen-fueled-Juggernauts while I was playing slivers.dec + 4 Force of Wills [nothing as good as the current Meathooks.dec that exists in Legacy]) Playing for the fun of it often motivates you through the learning stages of competition. Playing for the competition itself often enables you to consistantly achieve victory.

[mercenarybdu]

-don't be a jerk
-play the game out then discuss afterwards
-shuffle more than 30 times per round. It makes for better randomization of the deck rather than you being called a "Long".