[Bargain Deck] - Ichorid Combo?

[AceofAllan]

Ok, I need some help. I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but I'm trying to build a cheap version of Ichorid. Without Ichorid. Well, for now at least. I have some of the combo pieces (obviously the cheaper ones) and I want to know what I can do with it that will be somewhat close to a viable deck.

Here's what I have so far:

Dread Return x4
Breakthrough x4
Deep Analysis x4
Lion's Eye Diamond x1

Golgari Grave-Troll x4
Putrid Imp x4
Stinkweed Imp x4
Golgari Thug x4
Flame-Kin Zealot x1

I've currently got bids (eBay) on cheap (for now) play sets of Narcomoebas and Street Wraiths. I don't expect those to go through. As you can see I've been collecting the cheapest (and thus least effective) parts of the combo, with the exception of the one very lucky find of a LED.

I don't have much in the way of land. I've got the basics pretty much covered, but anything with more than one color is not likely in my inventory.

Given that situation, what can I do with these cards? Is there a chance that I can pull off something viable? I know I'm missing the key components Ichorid and Bridge from Below, but there's got to be something I can do. Should I try to dread return the troll with small cheap creatures or some form of token generation?

To give you an idea of the ... well, I don't want to use "metagame" ... whatever ... I don't play with people that have money to throw away on decks, so the worst I have to deal with is a mono white deck, which oddly enough is the most expensive deck I play against. (It uses a combo of parallax wave + monk idealist, true believers, mother of runes or dawn elemental + pariah, and swords to plowshares. It usually wins with one of two exalted angels and mishra's factories). Behind that, my threats are (in order) UB psychatog, mono blue wizards, goblins without the vial or lackey (but one lucky piledriver from a pack), a zombie horde, and some kind of pseudo standard treefolk deck. No FoW's to worry about, no Tormod's Crypt, no leylines, no Goyfs, nothing that would stand a chance at a tourney.

If I'm looking at a lost cause here without the vital pieces, don't be afraid to tell me.

Thanks ahead of time.

[technogeek5000]

If you cant play ichorid, your still going to need another creature that recurs. The best one I can think of off the top of my head is nether shadow. I also seem to remember a ichorid-esque ice age creature but I cant remember its name.

Edit: yep, brutticus got it. Ashen ghoul was what I was thinking about.

[Bruticus]

Ashen Ghoul?

http://magiccards.info/cstd/en/20.html

[Nihil Credo]

Uh... you do realize that without Ichorid and Bridge, your only creatures are Narcomoebas and Imps, so you'll have a hard time turning on the Return engine in the first place? Building Ichorid combo like that is like trying to play Storm combo without Tendrils/EtW/Brain Freeze.

And no offense, but if you don't have the what, 20 bucks for a playset of Ichorids and Bridges, where are you getting the money to attend tournaments? If you're playing at the kitchen table, then might as well use proxies while you gather the cards.

[AceofAllan]

The idea is that I don't have the twenty bucks for the Ichorid and Bridges right now. I just spent the thirty that me and my wife agreed I could. Before you start making comments, let me explain. We're 22 years old, just started life together, and while money isn't tight, we're trying to save as much as we can to buy a house. I'm not playing at tournaments, I'm still playing my old friends. But they've been getting better and better while I'm still playing a watered down mono blue control deck. It's not fun when you get your face beat in game after game. I'm trying to build something workable and fun to play with. Slowly. Eventually, I'll have the all out kick ass Ichorid Combo. It'll take me a while, but I wanted to see if I could put something together with my pieces.

I really appreciate the help though. I think I have one or two nether shadows lying around.

Thanks again for helping a seemingly lost cause.

Any other ideas?

[Isamaru]

AceofAllen, why don't you build a deck using mostly the cards you own? Or, if you are mainly playing your friends decks, spend a few dollars to collect the trumps to each of their strategies. They each like playing expensive creatures? Play Unsummon, Whirlpool Whelm, and Control Magic. They play a lot of creatures? Play Propaganda. They play a clunky combo? Find the wrench to throw in it.

[Pulp_Fiction]

Dude ..... its not gonna work ..... like at all. Dredge, Affinity, Burn, and 10 Lands Stompy are all the cheapest decks to build in Legacy. This is not a format to play in and expect to not spend a decent amount of money on good cards and win. And playing Dredge without any Ichorid is just awful. Im sure a local card shop has some used ones for like $2-3.00 each. I understand LED, because they are like $15.00 each but Dredge can work, and work very well without LEDs in it. Just look at the Extended decklists for Dredge.

[AceofAllan]

AceofAllen, why don't you build a deck using mostly the cards you own? Or, if you are mainly playing your friends decks, spend a few dollars to collect the trumps to each of their strategies. They each like playing expensive creatures? Play Unsummon, Whirlpool Whelm, and Control Magic. They play a lot of creatures? Play Propaganda. They play a clunky combo? Find the wrench to throw in it.

Not to be picky, but it's AllAn.

And I've tried that. I have four propagandas, and they are amazing. Even found a few slow motions to help out. Fact is, they've become too numerous to control like that. I tried making the deck able to stop just about everything they could throw at me, and it worked exceedingly well. Problem was, I didn't have a strong enough win condition left over with all my control in the deck. When I tried to strengthen that back up, I found my sideboard needed to be about 30 cards bigger to handle everybody.

I'm out of options. It's time to up the ante. I've decided that rather than buy tons of cheap cards that will NEVER be tournament viable like you suggested, I'd start to invest in something (slowly) that will eventually make them cry.

Until they do what I did, that is.

But then it'll be great! We'll all be tournament ready, and can go have real fun.

Of course, that will take time, and I'm impatient. I want something I can do with what I have.



One last thing: A sincere thanks to everyone who's read everything I wrote on this site. I know it must sound like whining by now. Sorry to be a bother.

[AceofAllan]

Can someone at least tell me that I'm going the right direction here? Slowly building a tournament viable deck instead of wasting money on crap to bring me up to speed in a relatively shallow metagame?

Also, even if I can't make something out of this yet, tell me what I should add next. Which parts of the combo will best get this up and running soon? Should I go with a solid dredge deck for now?

[Ozymandias]

a) You absolutely need Narcomoebas. Otherwise, there's no real point in playing all those Dread Returns. At least one Ichorid is vital. Bridge from Below is a top priority, as well. The deck has been called NarcoBridge for a reason.

b)For now, as long as you have all of that extra room, pick up 4 Tireless Tribe and 4 Careful Study for more discard outlets. Also, you could use 1 cephalid sage. There's no point in playing Flame-Kin Zealot without Bridge from Below: Just play a utility or fat critter in the spot. Cephalid Coliseum is a perfect land for this deck.

c) If you don't want to play a crippled version, first things first get 4 Gemstone Mine and 4 City of Brass, which can go in any deck you like. Then slowly build up Ichorid pieces

[xsockmonkeyx]

Illisius posted this list in the budget deck thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9729). I thought it was pretty nifty, although Deep Analysis is kinda shitty without LED.

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Undiscovered Paradise

4 Putrid Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
2 Deep Analysis
1 Tireless Tribe

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug

4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Dread Return
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

SB: 4 Darkblast
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Ray of Revelation
SB: 2 Wax // Wane


Can someone at least tell me that I'm going the right direction here? Slowly building a tournament viable deck instead of wasting money on crap to bring me up to speed in a relatively shallow metagame?

Ichorid is one of the best performing decks in Legacy and will be a good deck for a while unless the formats changes drastically, or they ban off pieces. It's a pretty safe choice as far as investment, and you will probably wipe the floor with them if they have no hate.


Also, even if I can't make something out of this yet, tell me what I should add next. Which parts of the combo will best get this up and running soon?

Pick up the Narcomoebas for sure ASAP, they should be one of your higher priorities. Forget the Street Wraiths, they are a waste of money IMO. Instead pick up 4 Careful Study and a Sage. After that work on Ichorids and Bridges. At this point the deck might actually do something that looks like Ichorid. Then get the golden lands. Try to work on Cephalid Coliseums next, which can be a pain in the ass to pick up on the cheap. The last thing you should pick up for the budget version is Cabal Therapies, not because they are unimportant but because of economics. They are rotating out of Extended soon, so they may tank in price over the summer, which is good for you, so it may be to your benefit to wait. Only pick up LED's if you get a ridiculous deal. They are not essential for the deck (though very VERY good), you have 1, and it's more productive to add 5-6 cards to your deck at a time instead of 1, IMO.

Unfortunately, the deck will not be very functional until most of the pieces are in place. Also, dont waste your money on suboptimal replacements (Ashen Ghoul) unless they are dirt cheap.


As you can see I've been collecting the cheapest (and thus least effective) parts of the combo

I disagree. Without the Dredgers the deck literally does nothing, and Breakthrough and Putrid Imp are some of the better pieces in the deck.

Try Cardshark. They have competitive pricing like eBay, and is a good way to pick up decks piecemeal.

Finally...

use proxies while you gather the cards.

[Willoe]

I think that with the budget list, you need to up your land count by at least one to support the Deep Analysis. I'm not sure, though.

Man, I know the times when you're out of money, it's pretty hard, but I have pretty much nothing to say other than the others than if you want to beat some serious face, add Ichorid ASAP. It's really worth it. Of course, Nether Shadow can also be used.

Guys, I know Nether Traitor costs mana to reanimate as well as ashen ghoul. But can you do a list with more lands that is just simple beatdown?

[Pienterekaak]

If your looking for a nice deck to play with your friends, ichorid is not your thing.
That is more for serious tournaments.
Also, i think its very hard with ichorid to slowly get the deck together since the whole deck is a combo.
If you want to slowly put a deck together that wont finish last in a tournament i would suggest burn. You can start with your own burn spells, and slowely swap them with things like lightning bolt, chain lightning, fireblast etc.
just my 50cents

[sunshine]

Pienterekaak has it right. If you're just intending to play casual games ichorid is not really the best choice imo. Sure you'll get to beat up on your friends but after a while it's going to seem like you're just sitting behind a deck rather than playing it. What exactly do you have to work with outside of dredge, i.e. do you have a set of FoW in that mono blue deck - if so you could probably put together a fairly competitive Ug Threshold list and work on picking up the duals/fetches over time.

[AceofAllan]

Alright, I found a good deal on Narcomoebas and Bridges, I found a Nether Shadow in my old stuffs, and a friend of mine will let me borrow his Careful Studies.

My new list looks like this:

Dread Return x4
Breakthrough x4
Deep Analysis x4
Lion's Eye Diamond x1
Bridge from Below x4
Careful Study x4

Narcomoeba x4
Golgari Grave-Troll x4
Putrid Imp x4
Stinkweed Imp x4
Golgari Thug x4
Flame-Kin Zealot x1
Nether Shadow x1


Am I getting close enough now to have something that is playable?

[xsockmonkeyx]

You're getting close now. 2-3 Ichorids, a Sage and some lands to cover your mana and youre in business.

[hypeiv]

I like Greenseeker in dredge as a cheap discard outlet.

Turn one: forest, Greenseeker
Turn two: durring upkeep activate greenseeker discarding Golgari Grave-Troll, fetch basic land and dredge during your draw step

[hypeiv]

You're getting close now. 2-3 Ichorids, a Sage and some lands to cover your mana and youre in business.

+ a reanimate target or two... Teneb, the Harvester would be cheap

[hypeiv]

Sorry for the bump but I was just thinking about this thread and magus of the bazaar would be hot in a bargain ichorid deck

[THEchubbymuffin]

Sorry for the bump but I was just thinking about this thread and magus of the bazaar would be hot in a bargain ichorid deck

Except for... once it's in the grave it has no purpose. It takes 2 mana to play, it dies to power of fire (aka any burn spell imaginable). And does not have haste, so it needs to stick for a turn.

[hypeiv]

Except for... once it's in the grave it has no purpose. It takes 2 mana to play, it dies to power of fire (aka any burn spell imaginable). And does not have haste, so it needs to stick for a turn.

I agree its garbage in legit ichorid... but in a bargain build you drop that guy turn 2 and he isn't handled it should be game on turn 3.

[mike121z]

you are really not asking a question when you already know the answer:

"If I'm looking at a lost cause here without the vital pieces, don't be afraid to tell me."

AceofAllAn i would like to suggest two things:

1. an extra 20-30 even 50 and all 100 bucks can't save you in buying a house, and not to be your financial manager, but the Russian saying goes: "don't be afraid of large losses, be concerned for small gains"

2. It's important to have hobbies; the drive is priceless. For you. And everyone around you.

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