[Article] Dredging its Way to the Top

[Bardo]

Article, (http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/16025.html) by Anwar Ahmad

An article about Ichorid by Anwar.

Interesting structure, but a bit too short and thin in places; however, I liked the organization: intro, tourney data, match-ups, bullets. Certain portions could have been developed with a deeper analysis of the format, but this was an otherwise fine article.

In passing, Anwar, the mog shot is really unflattering. Try smiling next time. :)

[Jak]

I agree on the mug shot photo :)

Anyway, I enjoyed the article because it had everything that someone would want that was picking up the deck. I also liked how it provided actual results and data to back it up rather than an own opinion. This was also a nice topic to write about. Nice work!

[Osse]

Very nice article Anwar. As I haven't kept up much with Ichorid, other than knowing the obvious, this was nice. One thing I think that would have been nice is what Ichorid has for answers against the hate, and what their sb options are. Especially for the audience that doesn't know much about the deck, questions such as "Do you strictly play anti-hate? Disruption?" Etc.

Also, despite Bryant's winnings with TES, and others with Fetchland Tendrils, are they putting up enough numbers to contest with Thresh, Landstill and Goblins? Or was it because it's possibly Ichorid's toughest matchup?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the article and would like to see alot more articles done in a similar fashion.

Also, I'm not meaning to knock any other articles with my comments here. So, for the other writers, keep it up!

[AnwarA101]

Very nice article Anwar. As I haven't kept up much with Ichorid, other than knowing the obvious, this was nice. One thing I think that would have been nice is what Ichorid has for answers against the hate, and what their sb options are. Especially for the audience that doesn't know much about the deck, questions such as "Do you strictly play anti-hate? Disruption?" Etc.

Also, despite Bryant's winnings with TES, and others with Fetchland Tendrils, are they putting up enough numbers to contest with Thresh, Landstill and Goblins? Or was it because it's possibly Ichorid's toughest matchup?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the article and would like to see alot more articles done in a similar fashion.

Also, I'm not meaning to knock any other articles with my comments here. So, for the other writers, keep it up!

I included TES and Fetchland Tendrils not because they have been putting up large numbers (I did not include them in the data analysis), but rather to highlight Ichorid's weakness. The deck could have sounded too good to be true if you only viewed against those 3 matchups, but I wanted to provide a more accurate portrayal of the deck.

I changed the picture, I would have thought that was enough. I think I'll just go with a picture of Eva Green next time. She's better looking anyway.

[Internet Hate Machine]

A good read, but one question is bugging me now. Is extirpate really that weak against ichorid? I thought shutting down the combo was a relatively good play against that deck and judging by the article you make it seem fairly irrelevant unless two extirpates get played.

[Jak]

A good read, but one question is bugging me now. Is extirpate really that weak against ichorid? I thought shutting down the combo was a relatively good play against that deck and judging by the article you make it seem fairly irrelevant unless two extirpates get played.

Ichorid beatdown is still a clock.

[Lukas Preuss]

Nice article. I would have liked more of "why is this deck different than the Extended lists", though. Many people know the deck from the last Extended season and they will assume its just the same one/a simple port from Extended... but there are some differences:

For example:
- Not such a main focus on Dread Return (this already confused the first poster in the SCG forum)
- Ichorid (the card) is better in Legacy than in Extended - and therefore people should not play 2 or 3 (as in Extended decks) but always 4.
- The importance of Lion's Eye Diamond
- The metagame difference between Extended and Legacy (such as Swords to Plowshares)

Other than that, it was a very nice introcudction and summary of the deck. Keep up the good work! Maybe you will write a more in depth analysis some time? :)

[Hightower]

Playing 3 Ichorid is actually pretty normal in Legacy "Dredge" as far as I have seen.

You don't need more then 1 _maybe_ 2 in the grave since you still need black creatures to remove to it..

[YuanTi]

"While Ichorid’s presence in Top 8 isn’t nearly as numerous as Threshold, Goblins, or Landstill, it is surprisingly strong. It is very close to that of Landstill, and not too far behind Threshold and Goblins."

I liked that.

Seriously the article was good. Including numbers of results was helpful, and matchups weren't bad, although they weren't hugely detailed.

I disagree on Extirpate. Extirpating Bridge leaves you with indestructible 3/1s as your win-con. Goyfs can block these and they can be StPed. Sacing a creature to deal with Bridge, and then Extirpating Ichorid leaves you with 4 1/1 fliers to win the game...

[Eldariel]

Fact is that no matter how good it is, Extirpate still doesn't end games like Jailer or Leyline.

Solid article, but I thought it could've been a bit longer; things Lukas Preuss listed would've been good to touch on. Still, it's great to see Legacy Ichorid getting some press - the deck has gone neglected for quite long enough.

[Lukas Preuss]

Playing 3 Ichorid is actually pretty normal in Legacy "Dredge" as far as I have seen.

You don't need more then 1 _maybe_ 2 in the grave since you still need black creatures to remove to it..

See, this is what I mean. In Legacy, many people play not enough Ichorids, because they just copy the Extended lists, not realizing some vital points. First of all, a single Ichorid in the graveyard is not enough, because of StP. You want to put Ichorids into the graveyard as much as possible, because otherwise StP can really wreck your Ichorid beatdown plan. Also, Ichorid is a black creature to remove for other Ichorids... so cutting down Ichorids in favor of other black creatures would be totally useless.

In Legacy, the Ichorid beatdown plan is actually just as crucial (or even more) to the overall gameplan as the Dread Return combo part is.

[Hightower]

Who said anything about cutting Ichorid for other black creatures =P

I'm not sure if I agree with you that the beatdown plan is just as important as the combo, from my (limited) experience the combo won me ~80% of the 10-12 games , the other games were won by Putrid Imp, Narcomoebas and some zombie tokens.

I also think that StP although it is a really good card, but I don't think it should scare you into running more/less cards. Not every deck plays white/StP..

[Willoe]

I also think that StP although it is a really good card, but I don't think it should scare you into running more/less cards. Not every deck plays white/StP..

Now that I finally know what it means, I have to say: QFT

And even better, as you're beating really fast (the beatdown plan does not take more than four turns to finish) it becomes hard for the opponent to find it. And in the meantime, you've dredged even more. If they know what you're playing, a white mana source and STP isn't exactly what they're mulling for against you.

Still, I think that you should run 4. 2 a turn gives you two zombie tokens, 6 damage and two more Therapy outlets. 4 is good, as they also pitch to each other. Having an Ichorid in the graveyard without another black creature is sad times.

So: Don't exactly have a phobia of STP ruining your day, but still play 4 Ichorids in my opinion :smile:

[BreathWeapon]

You can't run less than 4xIchorid, in match ups like Goblins or Affinity, after your Bridge from Below is removed, you have to able to attack in waves.

I'm not 100% on the deck list, one of the problems Ichorid has is there's no consensus on what the right number of Dread Return and Deep Analysis is, and whether or not Careful Study is an integral MD card.

[Nihil Credo]

A good presentation, overall.

One thing I would have liked to see mentioned is the possibility of hating Ichorid not by attacking the graveyard, but rather the combat phase, which the deck entirely relies upon to. A Ghostly Prison/Propaganda, Dueling Grounds, Moat, or AEther Flash severely hampers the hordes of Horrors and Zombies, at which point you'll only at worst have to deal with a single Dread Return -> fattie (and not all lists run even that). The big advantage, of course, is that this sort of hate has a dual purpose in shoring up the tribal aggro matchups as well.

[Ewokslayer]

A good presentation, overall.

One thing I would have liked to see mentioned is the possibility of hating Ichorid not by attacking the graveyard, but rather the combat phase, which the deck entirely relies upon to. A Ghostly Prison/Propaganda, Dueling Grounds, Moat, or AEther Flash severely hampers the hordes of Horrors and Zombies, at which point you'll only at worst have to deal with a single Dread Return -> fattie (and not all lists run even that). The big advantage, of course, is that this sort of hate has a dual purpose in shoring up the tribal aggro matchups as well.

You forgot to mention Elephant Grass.

Technically, all Dredge decks run the Dread Return --> Fattie plan, Grave-troll is not what most people would call small.

[Elficidium]

Nice article, only 1 slight remark.

Don't forget all the new toys Vial goblins has with the B splash, this makes it quite a bad matchup for Ichorid, certainly postboard. Preboard you have Warren Weirding and possible Fanatic recursion with Wort to be worried about. Postboard you have therapies as sac outlets and Leylines on the other side of the table.

[Nihil Credo]

You forgot to mention Elephant Grass.

Technically, all Dredge decks run the Dread Return --> Fattie plan, Grave-troll is not what most people would call small.
Correct on both points.

I was thinking more of Simic Sky Swallower / Red Akroma, i.e. "flying, StP-proof clock".

[THEchubbymuffin]

"play Cabal Therapy or Dredge Return" - article

I liked the article, when I played around with this deck just testing it, I was pretty bad Game 2. And if I had read this before it might have been a little bit better.

[nitewolf9]

A well done article. I think ichorid/dredge is probably one of the most underrated decks in the format, and it is surprisingly resilient to a lot of the hate out there. Good choice for a topic. Perhaps someone could write a primer for the deck as well, or maybe have a few sample hands/scenarios on how to play it since it involves such a unique style of play.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

All this guy said was chain of vapor and cabal therapy make ichord... it was lame

[etrigan]

You namedropped Bovinious. That's bad mojo, and only bad things will come of it.

[Phantom]

I appreciated it just because I don't know that much about the deck. I especially appreciated the hate section, and think that is a space that more writers should explore (since most people reading will most likely not play the deck in question, but will very likely play AGAINST it).

[AnwarA101]

A good read, but one question is bugging me now. Is extirpate really that weak against ichorid? I thought shutting down the combo was a relatively good play against that deck and judging by the article you make it seem fairly irrelevant unless two extirpates get played.

I firmly believe Extirpate is substantially weaker than Jailer or Leyline. It allows Ichorid to play its game something Jailer and Leyline don't do. Trying to beat Ichorid on one card assumes that it is a combo deck that folds to removing one specific card which is not true. Perhaps I didn't go into enough detail, but Ichorid is a decent aggro deck with Ichorids, Narcomeobas, and Putrid Imps. Its worth noting that I think Ichorid is the best example of aggro-combo that Legacy has.


Nice article. I would have liked more of "why is this deck different than the Extended lists", though. Many people know the deck from the last Extended season and they will assume its just the same one/a simple port from Extended... but there are some differences:

For example:
- Not such a main focus on Dread Return (this already confused the first poster in the SCG forum)
- Ichorid (the card) is better in Legacy than in Extended - and therefore people should not play 2 or 3 (as in Extended decks) but always 4.
- The importance of Lion's Eye Diamond
- The metagame difference between Extended and Legacy (such as Swords to Plowshares)

Other than that, it was a very nice introcudction and summary of the deck. Keep up the good work! Maybe you will write a more in depth analysis some time? :)

I would have liked to work in some comparisons to Extended, but in all honesty I didn't follow this past Extended season. I played last year, but some of the lists were similar to Legacy versions. Most of my efforts were focused on talking about the Legacy deck and why its doing well right now.

I think playing less than 4 Ichorids is not advisable in Legacy. It gives the deck so much resiliency that it is more than worth its weight in gold.

Finally, I wanted to thank Parcher and Krieger for providing feedback on an early draft.

[Giles]

Honestly I did not like it. I found it very boring.
Majority of your article was William Spainel's You Tube Videos on dredge.

Also your sideboard section wanted me to do a fasepalm. You posted every possible card against Ichorid... but you never said how to create the sideboard for the deck. Sure Chain of Vapor and Pithing Needle are great in the side, yet there are still 7-8 spots left. And you never said about the Ray/Grudge main flaw about they are graveyard dependent.

Also you can just get rid of the match-up section, since games two and three is only matters about what they bring in against you.

In your conclusion also really puzzled me, your final sentence was "Despite its weaknesses, Ichorid remains a strong choice, and it deserves serious consideration by every Legacy player." This should have been your thesis. You never really pin-pointed why [we] should play it. Dredge might masturbate during game one and win... but game 2 and 3 is like a WoW player finding a girl to buy them a drink at the local bar.

Edit:
Here are the vids:
Week One: Extended's New Nemesis: Dredge
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziza075hl_s)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYXaMQg3Qgw)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXcl1J3DkoU)

Week Two:The *Broken* Extended Deck
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDbGuv21PJ4)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZE-o03xG9M)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh7aoEgK5tk)

[xsockmonkeyx]

I thought the article was short, but still head and shoulders above anything else coming out of Unlocking Legacy lately. I liked the fact that it actually started to get into details and nuances of the deck, so much so that I was left wanting more. Keep writing articles plz.

[Parcher]

Honestly I did not like it. I found it very boring.
Majority of your article was William Spainel's You Tube Videos on dredge.

What does this have to do with anything? I never saw an LED played in these videos. Nor was this an instructional article. It was stated very clearly that it wasn't intended to be.


Also your sideboard section wanted me to do a fasepalm. You posted every possible card against Ichorid... but you never said how to create the sideboard for the deck. Sure Chain of Vapor and Pithing Needle are great in the side, yet there are still 7-8 spots left. And you never said about the Ray/Grudge main flaw about they are graveyard dependent.

There was a deck suggested that had won a tournament, and not by Anwar. Again, this article was meant to highlight was was to be expected from, and playing against the deck. Merits of particular card inclusion could be better directed to the Ichorid development thread. And to the best of my knowledge, both Ray of Revelation, and Ancient Grudge can be cast from your hand. Or if a Deed, EE, Humility, Crypt, Ghostly Prison, etc. is on the board.


Also you can just get rid of the match-up section, since games two and three is only matters about what they bring in against you.

Oh how I wish that were true. If Ichorid did have a 100% Game One win percentage, I'm quite certain that it would see more play. Unfortunately, unlike in Extended, most decks have tools to fight Ichorid's gameplan from the start. Even Landstill, which most consider the best possible match for Ichorid, can ruin your day with early countermagic to slow you, and a Deed to sweep your board. The Hate is easier to learn to play against since it is only present in 4-5 cards which are universaly relevant. Knowing what will stymie Ichorid from the meta-present decks, and how to play around or through it allows Ichorid to retain it's first game strategic superiority.


In your conclusion also really puzzled me, your final sentence was "Despite its weaknesses, Ichorid remains a strong choice, and it deserves serious consideration by every Legacy player." This should have been your thesis. You never really pin-pointed why [we] should play it. Dredge might masturbate during game one and win... but game 2 and 3 is like a WoW player finding a girl to buy them a drink at the local bar.

Again, I think the point was missed. Having a 70% Game One win percentage against a vast majority of the field is reason enough for a great deal of players to run this deck. In following games, while it is often difficult for Ichorid to remove, or play around cards directly aimed at foiling the graveyard, not only can simply swinging with men win the game, but these other decks will often not have time to apply these hate cards. Or if they do, they still lose, as they have diluted their strategy through to overapplication of these very specific cards to the point where Ichorid can still win before the opponent's deck can produce a credible threat of it's own.

[Bryant Cook]

It was alright.

[Internet Hate Machine]

I firmly believe Extirpate is substantially weaker than Jailer or Leyline. It allows Ichorid to play its game something Jailer and Leyline don't do. Trying to beat Ichorid on one card assumes that it is a combo deck that folds to removing one specific card which is not true. Perhaps I didn't go into enough detail, but Ichorid is a decent aggro deck with Ichorids, Narcomeobas, and Putrid Imps. Its worth noting that I think Ichorid is the best example of aggro-combo that Legacy has.

Well I can see that point I guess, but strictly from the point of view of a threshold player a "decent aggro deck" is alot less frightening than a lightning fast combo deck that can kill you without playing spells. Plus, extirpate cannot be answered by bounce which in my opinion makes it a stronger choice, again, from the threshold stance. In short, I think thresh or any other kind of control can handle fast aggro a hell of a lot better than a combo that can kill you without resolving spells.

[thefreakaccident]

I liked most of the article, but I didn't agree with what he had to say about the ichorid/landstill MU, and about extirpate, as one extirpate, coupled with creature removal for troll/ichorid is quite devastating for that deck... landstill also has access to humility, which coupled with early countermagic (discard outlets) can also shut down their strategy... however, if he was strictly talking about 4c, BHWW, then I totally agree with what he had to say about that MU in particular.

[undone]

I PLAY dredge, ALOT. And I can tell you in order of importance the cards that hurt dredge the most and what combination of cards win the game.

1) Planar void, while leyline is more popular, this is harder to deal with due to bounce NOT working as well.

2) Extirpate, other hate that is one time doesnt have the inpact that this does. This card doesnt target the usual targets that people think of.

a) if you have 2 you go for GGT and stinky, if you have just 1 extirpate ichorid, then if you draw a 2nd extirpate narco in responce to the trigger

3) Offal snout (however you spell this) it can block an ichorid, RFG the bridges, and then proceed to remove a dread return target.

4) leyline- annoyin but easily bounced, and awful in the first 3 turns

5) crypt- good players laugh and play around it like they were born to do so

6) other hate like jailer teeg and Mmage- less annoying then say leyline because they dont actualy END the game.

[Brehn]

Jailer ends the game. Now.

[Willoe]

A rules question: Would Jailer stop a Narcomoeba from triggering?

[undone]

Brehn Jailer ends the game. Now.

Jailer cost 1B, jailer can be bounced, it has no advantage over planar void. I have played dredge enough to know that it doesnt do nearly what people think it does.

It could be considered debateably better then leyline, but unlike with many of the cards mentioned jailer is subject to about 8-10 cards post SB, which makes it worse then people realize. Also Jailer without crypt/extirpate still lets you build a gy and kill the opponent in 1 turn post eot bounce.

Leyline prevents the game from starting untill I remove it. Quite simply put

Bounceing leyline is like pressing play, Bounceing jailer is like pressing the unpause button.


A rules question: Would Jailer stop a Narcomoeba from triggering?

You cant dredge with jailer out

[Brehn]

I have played dredge enough to know that it doesnt do nearly what people think it does.

You have just put Yixlid Jailer and Meddling Mage into the same category of effectiveness against Ichorid. Have you played Ichorid at all?

[Jaiminho]

A rules question: Would Jailer stop a Narcomoeba from triggering?

It does stop. Abilities that trigger when coming from anywhere other than play to the graveyard have the ability check when they are on the graveyard.

How you would get the Narcomoeba from library to graveyard is a whole other story.

[undone]

Generaly, when you play jailer the play is almost always met with "eot bounce jailer T2/3 win."

Anything that costs 2 mana requires ADDITIONAL hate for any hope of doing something.

You dont lose to decks playing jailer because decks playing jailer dont make it to turn 2 to play it more then half the time.

Jailer doesnt win the game, it can be answered at any point and dredge wins. Leyline/planar void must be answered BEFORE you can even try to start playing the game. Seriously if you make the statement that jailer ends the game NOW, your not playing dredge, your playing against it.

Its better to play any type of hate not based on shutting down the gy but removing it or preventing it from starting to build up.

[Nihil Credo]

You dont lose to decks playing jailer because decks playing jailer dont make it to turn 2 to play it more then half the time.
> 50% turn 1/2 win with Ichorid, after boarding in your Chains of Vapor or whatever? I'm calling you on this BS.

[Misplayer]

snip
I think what it boils down to is one hate card is not difficult to work around, but multiple cards that hurt your gameplan can wreck the deck. Crypt in multiples or one paired with Fanatic/STE/Ravager can make for a rough game, and multiples of Leyline, Jailer, Propaganda, etc are mostly impossible to beat.

Also, what's the primary difference between operating under Jailer and operating under Planar Void, other than you can discard cards into the yard with Jailer out? That doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me. In both cases, EOT bounce + combo-out seems to be your only shot. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jaiminho]

I want to see Ichorid beat UGb Thresh playing Jailer. Not like it's the best card to fill those sideboard slots, but once it lands on the board, it's never going out.

[BreathWeapon]

> 50% turn 1/2 win with Ichorid, after boarding in your Chains of Vapor or whatever? I'm calling you on this BS.

I don't know if I disagree or agree with Yixlid Jailor being a good or bad card in the match up, of the anti-graveyard card he's the easiest to metagame for with Darkblast, Contagion and Sickening Shoal and ideally you do want an anti-graveyard card that avoids Cabal Therapy.

Threshold is kind of stuck using Yixlid Jailor or Tormod's Crypt if you don't want to dedicate 4 slots to Leyline of the Void, but something like Landstill would be better off with Planar Void.

[AnwarA101]

Well I can see that point I guess, but strictly from the point of view of a threshold player a "decent aggro deck" is alot less frightening than a lightning fast combo deck that can kill you without playing spells. Plus, extirpate cannot be answered by bounce which in my opinion makes it a stronger choice, again, from the threshold stance. In short, I think thresh or any other kind of control can handle fast aggro a hell of a lot better than a combo that can kill you without resolving spells.

Threshold might disrupt the combo, but not have the tools to combat the aggro part of the deck. While a decent aggro deck might not be worrisome, it is when you've essentially used your sideboard cards to construct an anti-combo plan. Your anti-aggro plan might be severely lacking and you might just lose to Ichorids coming back each turn.

[undone]

Also, what's the primary difference between operating under Jailer and operating under Planar Void, other than you can discard cards into the yard with Jailer out? That doesn't seem to be a huge difference to me. In both cases, EOT bounce + combo-out seems to be your only shot. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

EOT Bounce, upkeep ichoridx2 or more triggers. Also 1 land is all you need to combo while jailer is out (eot chain, BT the discarded dredge cards) With jailer out draw is castable. While planar void/LLotV is out you are unable to set up. Seriously I can cast draw all day with jailer out but with leyline i just have to draw and let cards get RFGed.

Ichoridx2 if gone off even once, with 2+ bridges often near lethal for threshold if they dont have a goyfie on the table. or even just a narcomeba+ ichorid.

[Giles]

What does this have to do with anything? I never saw an LED played in these videos. Nor was this an instructional article. It was stated very clearly that it wasn't intended to be.
It is for Extended first off. Secondly I does talk about MD and SB thoughts and strategies.




There was a deck suggested that had won a tournament, and not by Anwar. Again, this article was meant to highlight was was to be expected from, and playing against the deck. Merits of particular card inclusion could be better directed to the Ichorid development thread. And to the best of my knowledge, both Ray of Revelation, and Ancient Grudge can be cast from your hand. Or if a Deed, EE, Humility, Crypt, Ghostly Prison, etc. is on the board.
True, but there is only one or two in the side. Majority of the time it is going to be Chain of Vapor.





Oh Ehow I wish that were true. If Ichorid did have a 100% Game One win percentage, I'm quite certain that it would see more play. Unfortunately, unlike in Extended, most decks have tools to fight Ichorid's gameplan from the start. Even Landstill, which most consider the best possible match for Ichorid, can ruin your day with early countermagic to slow you, and a Deed to sweep your board. The Hate is easier to learn to play against since it is only present in 4-5 cards which are universaly relevant. Knowing what will stymie Ichorid from the meta-present decks, and how to play around or through it allows Ichorid to retain it's first game strategic superiority.

I look at dredge like a storm deck, a lot of cards are useless in the main. Sure there are stuff out there, but where a good player shines is in games two and three.


Again, I think the point was missed. Having a 70% Game One win percentage against a vast majority of the field is reason enough for a great deal of players to run this deck. In following games, while it is often difficult for Ichorid to remove, or play around cards directly aimed at foiling the graveyard, not only can simply swinging with men win the game, but these other decks will often not have time to apply these hate cards. Or if they do, they still lose, as they have diluted their strategy through to overapplication of these very specific cards to the point where Ichorid can still win before the opponent's deck can produce a credible threat of it's own.
But why should a person even pick up the deck, if they are fighting up-hill, on the back foot, against Tiger Woods; games two and three?
Since this is the first major Legacy dredge article, it should have been about: "Despite its weaknesses, Ichorid remains a strong choice, and it deserves serious consideration by every Legacy player." Instead an article that had no direction and bottom-line was a copy-and-paste from all the discussion about this deck from the get go.

[AnwarA101]

But why should a person even pick up the deck, if they are fighting up-hill, on the back foot, against Tiger Woods; games two and three?
Since this is the first major Legacy dredge article, it should have been about: "Despite its weaknesses, Ichorid remains a strong choice, and it deserves serious consideration by every Legacy player." Instead an article that had no direction and bottom-line was a copy-and-paste from all the discussion about this deck from the get go.

I'm pretty sure that discussing both a deck's pre-board matchups and its particular weakness to sideboard cards is good introduction to the deck. Viewing the deck in that light makes a direct case for considering the deck. What part of the discussion did I not cover? What specifically would you have discussed that is missing from this discussion?

[Giles]

I'm pretty sure that discussing both a deck's pre-board matchups and its particular weakness to sideboard cards is good introduction to the deck. Viewing the deck in that light makes a direct case for considering the deck. What part of the discussion did I not cover? What specifically would you have discussed that is missing from this discussion?

Again I think you never answer this question: "Despite its weaknesses, Ichorid remains a strong choice, and it deserves serious consideration by every Legacy player." Why? Are the strengths out weigh the obvious hate for the deck? Is this just a Meta deck? If so what type of meta?

I know that you put in SB choices in for the deck, but you hid it in the "Hate" section. I did not like that. There is still Leyline, Chailce, ect that you still need to cover.

Also you should of made the Standard/Extended/Vintage Comparatives. This deck has been played in these four formats since dredge was thought of. A player might have the deck form old standard or extended and needs to know the differences of piloting (Also Vintage needs some love too).

I have played Dredge in all formats that it is legal and viable in, and there are fairly big differences to it. Bottom Line, lacking this aspect is a fatal flaw.

[Anusien]

Now that I've finally read this article, I have to say that I was pretty disappointed. For people that can reason independently and have seen the deck in action in at least Extended in the past two years, there isn't a lot here. I understand that you want to cover all your bases, but I think you need to devote more time to more complex analysis. For an article you thought was so important that a lack of it de-legitimized the column, I wanted to see more.

Overall this was 2699 words, removing stuff like the decklist and your closing.
Intro: 459 (17%)
Metagame: 685 (25%)
Matchups: 756 (28%)
Sideboard: 697 (26%)
Conclusion: 102 (4%)
(Percentages were rounded and may not add up to 100%)

Some people like to say that Dredge doesn't have matchups against decks, but against hate cards. Considering that, the amount of time you spend talking about sideboard cards is criminally low. Like yes, you point out some hate cards that currently exist (although I think Jotun Grunt is also worthy of mention) and their relative merits, but I don't think that's enough. Pretend that I'm playing UGW Threshold or Landstill. How many sideboard slots do I need to devote to the matchup to win games 2 and 3? In what combination? For example, it is better to split my hate between permanents and non-permanents or different types of permanents (say, Extirpate and Leyline of the Void or Leyline of the Void and Tormod's Crypt) to force the opponent into multiple types of hate? If I only have 4 slots, should I just run 4 Jailor, or should I mix it up? (One author during 1.x advocated if you only have 4 slots to run 4 singleton anti-Ichorid cards to help them find the wrong answer). What about Faerie Macabre, the new kid to the playground? It's less effective but significantly harder to stop.

I would have included sections on how some of the triggers and interactions work. It is worth emphasizing that choosing to dredge a draw cannot be responded to (#1 question with Ichorid), or that you get Zombie tokens from Bridge from Below before the flashbacked Cabal Therapy responds, or how Bridge from Below works. It is worth telling players at least how to stack the triggers with Bridge from Below when a creature controlled by both players is put into the graveyard.

I think all the things you said in the article were true, but I don't think you said enough for how important you think the deck is. Articles of this sort are basically intended to be a substitute for players testing decks for themselves, and I don't get that from this article. Otherwise it's just show and tell in elementary school. Writing about established decks is always more work to do a good job.