[Question 28] The DCI and Legacy

[Bardo]

Question 28: The DCI and Legacy

The ways and means of the DCI (Duelists' Convocation International) have a profound impact on the nature and form of the format we know and enjoy. The DCI is owned and operated by Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast, and is represented by employees from their Research & Development and Organized Play departments (and maybe a few others).

Since "Legacy" was created from the ashes of "Type 1.5" in the days for yore (September 2004), the DCI has acted only in a few limited cases in this format; the largest, being the banning of the then-recently un-errata'd Flash after GP: Columbus. Otherwise, they've pretty much left Legacy alone, presumably because they feel it is "healthy" and "balanced," and assuming that they care at all.

To date, a summary of the DCI changes to Legacy (meticulously researched by yours truly):

September 2004 - Modern "Legacy" created (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20040901a)
December 2004 - No Change
March 2005 - No Change
June 2005 - No Change
September 2005 - Imperial Seal (preemptively) Banned (Portal I, II, III becomes tournament legal on Oct. 20, 2005)
December 2005 - No Change
March 2006 - No Change
June 2006 - No Change
September 2006 - No Change
December 2006 - A peculiar announcement on that date: "There are no changes to the Banned or Restricted lists of any formats."
March 2007 - No Change
June 2007 - Flash is banned; Mind Over Matter is unbanned; Replenish is unbanned
September 2007 - Shahrazad in Banned in Legacy and Vintage
December 2007 - No Change
March 2008 - No Change
June 2008 - No Change in Legacy; Vintage whacked on the side of its head (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/announce/dci20080602a)

To outsiders, the methods the DCI uses to determine whether or not to ban/restrict or unban cards are somewhat mysterious. We know they consider empirical tournament data. Citing Devin Low's "Recent Developments" column on June 13, 2008: "One of the most important functions the DCI provides is to continually analyze tournament formats to make sure they are healthy. The DCI pays particular attention to the trending of Top 8s from larger and stronger tournaments, because they are good indications of where the metagame is headed." That is, certain cards get the axe because they allow particular and overpowering decks to dominate a format to an "unhealthy" extent.

In other times they've used the "un-fun" test to partially inform their decision to restrict cards (witness the DCI's justification for restricting Trinisphere); as "unfun" metagames leads to slower card sales. We also know, on occasion, the DCI has gathered informal feedback, in the form of questionnaires, from people who they believe intimately understand certain formats. On other occasions (most recently Mike Turian on the SCG forums), DCI representatives have solicited feedback from online discussion forums.

So, with the rather sweeping changes to Vintage earlier this month (i.e. the restriction of Brainstorm, Flash, Gush, Merchant Scroll and Ponder), and with quite a few of the T1'ers threatening secession from the DCI (yes, really), how do you think the DCI have treated Legacy to date?

Discussion points:

1. Is the DCI doing a good job for Legacy? That is, is Legacy a “healthy, fun and balanced” format?

2. Is the format in a good place?

3. Does anything need to be banned?

Bonus Question. Does anyone believe Land Tax should remain banned?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

1) The DCI is doing about as much as could be expected. It's hard to argue that they should mess with a format that's so consistently stayed varied; a few decks drift to the very top consistently, but others poke their heads into the top 8 and even winning slots, and even the top decks don't seem immune to periodic lapses in competitiveness. It'd be nice to see some other cards come off the list, Land Tax especially just because it's presence there is mocking, but their stance is understandable being outside of the format, and having nothing much more than a few very healthy-looking tournament results to go on.

2) It seems to be in fairly decent shape, considering the lack of Jack Elgin in the year prior and all.

3) Enh. Tarmogoyf is still in my crosshairs, but I'm starting to consider it as just Green's answer to StP or Duress (now Thoughtseize, I guess); the card you pretty much always play in that color, just because it's that damned good. Not quite Brainstorm because there's literally no reason not to play Brainstorm in Blue.


Bonus: Yes. Stupid people do.

[Nihil Credo]

Hm. I lazied out on the last question, so I'm happy this one is easy.

1) I started following Legacy only a few months after the format splitting, but from what I understand in 2004 everyone expected the fledgling to be broken as hell.

The DCI's original B&R list defied said expectations and produced a great format, for which we should all be thankful. And in the following years they realized that new sets were giving Legacy enough new toys that they didn't necessarily need to slap us around once in a while like Vintage - for this too we should be thankful.

So, aye, they did a good job. At least, they did as far as pertains to the B&R list - my opinion of whoever's in charge of errata is much less flattering.

2) The only reason to write a long answer to this one would be a love for the sound of my own voice. When was the last time you heard serious complaints about the format? Even the Tarmoban wagon has mostly shut up.

3) No. If it counts, I'd be mildly interested in seeing Protean Hulk banned and Flash unbanned, as I think Flash + [multiple creatures with good leaves-play triggers] could be a more interesting deck than whatever's been done with Hulk since last year. Now that they're aware of the danger, it isn't really hard to remember to check each new set for ridiculous leaves-play triggers and preemptively ban them in Legacy if needed.


Bonus) http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08251/bunnyhump784.gif

[Illissius]

1. Yes and yes.
2. Yes. Much, much better than the Goblins-versus-Solidarity era. Might be my favorite format ever.
3. No.
4. What IBA said.

[Eldariel]

1) I think DCI has done an excellent job with Legacy. There's an insanely large cardpool to play with and all archetypes and colours are represented in, or near the top. Also, a staggeringly large amount of the cardpool is actually being used to win with. These are very much signs of the format being in an excellent place in regards of health and enjoyability, which is a direct reflection of the banned-list being pretty much on the money.

I'd like to echo Nihil's sentiments regarding errata though.

2) I think I already answered this - in fact, question 1 seems rather impossible to answer without pre-emptively answering this. Combine these two and make the bonus question #2.

3) I've wanted to see Goblin Lackey go for about 3-4 years now due to the random wins it generates, but thanks to the lower number of Goblins being played right now, I suppose it's not being too strong an offender right now.

That doesn't change my stance on it; I find effects that accidentially end many a game before significant choices beyond mulligans have been made unhealthy. Still, if it isn't played much, the number of games it pre-empts becomes much lower. Also, having aggro that can occasionally race combo is a good thing, so I guess there're sufficient arguments for not banning it.


Bonus question: *insert facepalm image here* (I'd do it myself, but I have way too much money yadda yadda yadda)

[Pinder]

1. Is the DCI doing a good job for Legacy? That is, is Legacy a “healthy, fun and balanced” format?


I really think that so far they have. Aside from the recent Flash debacle that messed up the only GP Legacy has had in a long while (Although as Nihil pointed out, that was an errata issue rather than a B&R issue). I'm perfectly happy with inaction from the DCI when there's no action warranted, and I'm glad that they can recognize when it isn't.



2. Is the format in a good place?


I think Legacy is in a good place right now, with a variety of decks in contention rather than the 'Big Three' in days past. It allows people a variety of choices in terms of playing decks that are proven competitive, as well as leaving a little bit of room to innovate as well.





3. Does anything need to be banned?


Eh, Tarmogoyf is a leetle big for its cost, but really it's just another really efficient card in a format filled with really efficient cards. It's probably far unhealthier for Extended or Standard than it is for Legacy. Other than that, I can't think of anything that really needs to be.



Bonus Question. Does anyone believe Land Tax should remain banned?

I really don't care, to be honest. I mean, whether it's banned or it's not, it's going to have the same impact on the format either way. Also, I think Nihil summed up this point beautifully.

[MattH]

1. Yes. Fuckin' Stompy can win a Legacy tournament. This suggests that either the format is insanely healthy or that if some sickness exists, no one knows about it, which is practically the same thing. No problems.

2. I guess? I mean, why not? Sucks that no one around HERE wants to play Legacy, but the format-as-mindspace is as good as any other.

3. Nope. Nothing frightens me at all anymore. They should start reprinting some of the Portal goodies, though, since none of it is on the reserved list. I don't expect to ever see Sea Drake reprinted since it's too good on its own merits, but stuff like Recruiter, Grim Tutor, and Loyal Retainers could be reprinted without causing TOO much of a stir since they only do impressive things combined with other cards which have left extended (Dark Ritual, Aluren). Retainers might go into some white-splash Reanimator in extended, to which I say: good for it. It still won't be too good as long as they have Leyline and Tormod (and Offalsnout and Extirpate and Heap Doll and and...) to keep guard.

Bonus: nope. I would like to see a number of cards unbanned. The one that looks the most exciting to me, however, is probably permanently beyond my financial reach: Illusionary Mask, which is on the reserved list, so we won't be seeing any more. Humbug. I really really would love to play Venguer Masque again.

[Tacosnape]

1. Is the DCI doing a good job for Legacy? That is, is Legacy a “healthy, fun and balanced” format?

Yes. It is. There's over twenty highly viable deck archetypes in this format right now. It's a format where it's possible to win with hordes of Goblins, an absurd storm count, blue countermagic and card draw, or a ridiculous amount of enchantments. It's a format where you can win games by playing twenty spells in a single turn or without ever playing a spell at all.

2. Is the format in a good place?

Yes.

3. Does anything need to be banned?

Besides discussions on the B/R list?

Bonus Question. Does anyone believe Land Tax should remain banned?

Yes. I do.

[Bardo]

I've never commented on anything anyone else has written in this Forum, but I don't mind making an exception here. Anyway, I'm happy to see everyone in agreement on a topic that is usually very polarizing: the DCI, managment of the Banned List and the health of the format that may or may not entail.

Personally now...


Is the DCI doing a good job for Legacy? That is, is Legacy a “healthy, fun and balanced” format?

I think they're doing a great job and Legacy is in a really good place. It's a superbly crafted format with a good mix of powerful and fun cards; nothing is over-powering to an obnoxious degree; even seemingly "unfair" decks are reasonably tame; and all archetypes can compete and take first place at some of the larger Legacy Tournaments. If anything, Prison seems to get the shaft, but I'm not complaining about that.

If archetypal diversity indicates format healthy, then Legacy has a great prognosis.


Does anything need to be banned?

Nope. I'd say everything is fine where it is. The power of Legacy's "answers" are so strong, it seems that if anything gets out of hand (excepting Flash), shifts in the metagame and retooling of sideboards seems to keep things in check. That seems perfect, especially since the format has a steady influx of new cards (most of which are crap, but plenty enough can be purposed for the format).


Does anyone believe Land Tax should remain banned?

Frankly, it's an embrassment to see freaking Land Tax in the company of Black Lotus, Yawgmoth's Will and Tinker. Really though, I have ceased to care about this issue, but it is annoying when I think about it.