[Deck choice] Indy Side event

[undone]

Ok, Im going to the 40 duals side event at GP indy, and Im expecting a thresh/dredge heavy metagame.

I have a few decks built, Including Ichorid, TES, Threshold(UGw), and Landstill. I dont want to play 4c landstill, so of the remaining decks which one is best in a thresh/ichorid metagame, with possible geddon stacks, belcher and landstill being the lesser played ones.

[Nihil Credo]

The most conservative choice would be UWb Landstill. You stomp Thresh, you stomp randomness, you're favoured vs. Stax and 4C Landstill, and you usually win 2-1 Ichorid thanks to a good SB (4 Extirpate, 4 Mage, 3-4 Halos or Plagues). Belcher would still be a problem, though, because your answers are pretty limited when they go off on turn 1 (4 FoWs +3 EE preboard, and +1 BEB postboard).

If you're willing to gamble a bit more in order to get easier wins, then White Stax does a number on Ichorid and is very well built against the most common Thresh builds (although it struggles if they have have access to more unusual stuff like Trygon Predator or Ancient Grudge).

Finally, RGB Survival should be pretty easy to tune to a metagame like this. Mucho discard and extra Magi of the Moon should give you an edge against Threshold (alongside Wish -> Boiling Seas), and against Ichorid it has a shot in G1 (by gumming up the ground with fat and sacrificing stuff to remove Bridges) and can pack as much hate as necessary for G2.

[Wallace]

I would run TES, it destroys an unprepared field and there is likely to be a lot of goblins there. If you don't want to run TES then run the deck you think has the best shot against goblins and other aggro decks. Large events like this will be filled with aggro decks and people who are just playing just because they didn't make day 2. This means there will be a lot of random decks and decks that are easy to play and cheap to build. Go TES!

[thefreakaccident]

TES scoops them up to threshold however... and he did say he was expecting it to be flooded with threshold (which I doubt will be the case), threshold will never comprize more than 10% of any given metgoyf.

Ichorid can/probably will be played in decent numbers because of the recent popularity and relatively cheap cost, that and goblins are going to be there in force (like sacearuse said)...

However, if you want any shot at winning this thing, play something that stomps over threshold, they will take card of the randomness for you and you want to be in the winning bracket early on any ways...

Landstill is your best shot, it beats randomness, rapes threshold, and has game against both ichorid and gobbos... if you make it into the winners bracket (I hope you can win your first two games), then you will face even more favorable MUs later in the tournament (most goblin players suck *note I said most, I have seen great gobbo players as well*, and ichorid scoops it up to hate)... threshold will not be hated on heavily, as it never is, so you can molest them in the winners bracket.

If you expect landstill and stax, be prepared for those..

Good Luck, hope this helps.

[willo]

If anyone from CNY wants to go to this, we are leaving friday morning and have space in car plus low cost nice hotel across the street. Coming back Sunday when everyone is done playing.

Our room is at the Hyatt for two nights total cost $160 (40 each with 4 people)

Gas will be about $200 (50 each with 4 people). 2008 Avenger

So only say $100 each for gas and room.

PM or reply if interested.

[technogeek5000]

Id say Aggro Loam, but Ill admit my opinion is slightly biased due to thats the deck I play. Aggro Loam has good game against threshold (just dont blindly cast dreams and you will be fine) and theirs just so many options for dregde in the board (I run 1 morningtide for the wish board and 4 leylines... has really brought up the percentage) that ichorid can be dealt with. Aggro loam has good game against most aggro and control and for the combo you have your board. It can deal with randomness and is resilient to hate (the only game Ive ever lost to someone bringing hate against me is when the opponent played 2 tormods crypts and 3 extirpates on all my win conditions).

Theirs plenty of other options too that could do well so just play what ever is cheapest to build and will do good against the meta.

[emidln]

I'll be playing Fetchland Tendrils.

[C.P.]

I'm going, and still not sure on what to play. Threshold, Ichorid, and Goblins would most likely to be the popular choices, while it is possible to meet lots of randomness.

I am leaning towards to Eva Green or UGr Tempothresh.

[undone]

If that was true (and it might be i dont know about it) I should run either goyf still or UWb cunning still, or UWbg landstill.


TES scoops them up to threshold however... and he did say he was expecting it to be flooded with threshold (which I doubt will be the case), threshold will never comprize more than 10% of any given metgoyf.

Tell that to bryant cook, please tape the reaction, I want to put it up on you tube. Also I have reached approximately 50/50 with thresh at this point as well as with dreadstill.

Ichorid is good but randomly loses games (it does not scoop to less then 3 cast hate cards or 1 unaswered leyline/void but life is hard)

TES I generaly lose when I mull down to like 5, but even then I still get there alot.

Landstill, I only have the 4c varient built. What is unfortuneate is that While i KNOW landstill is the best choice, I dont know if I can take the time to play each game.(I burn out easily and this deck tends to take you to time.)

[TeenieBopper]

Tell that to bryant cook, please tape the reaction, I want to put it up on you tube. Also I have reached approximately 50/50 with thresh at this point as well as with dreadstill.

Even Bryant admits that Threshold is a bad match-up.

/obligatory Dreadstill sucks comment.

[undone]

Even Bryant admits that Threshold is a bad match-up.

yes but read 45/55 or 50/50 not "TES scoops to thresh" its a bad mu but not horrible.

Beltcher will be present im sure, simply because it is relativly cheep to build, same with goblins. Im also expecting alot of ichorid. This rasies the question. Enchantress???? You have halo-> beltcher and MD Egrass for ETW. Your TES mu isnt that good. Ichorid.. Your the only deck in the format that has a positve game 1...:laugh: Not sure if I can get it together totaly before the event but It would be an important question to ask. Whats your goblins/landstill MU?

[TeenieBopper]

yes but read 45/55 or 50/50 not "TES scoops to thresh" its a bad mu but not horrible.


He doesn't need a bigger ego, but you, sir, are not Bryant Cook.

[Elficidium]

yes but read 45/55 or 50/50 not "TES scoops to thresh" its a bad mu but not horrible.


So when you only have 50% chance of winning you consider this a bad matchup?

Could you direct me to the thread wear this magical superdeck is to be found?
[/sarcasm]

Anyway, I vote +1 for the Aggroloam, slaughters randoms and has a reasonable Rogue factor in th US (correct me if I'm wrong here), combined with the fact that unless they have a SB full of Gravehate you're not hated out game 2. Also has a great Goblin matchup versus old builds (Rw) and a decent one vs new ones (RB or RBg), providing they've not tooled their Sb against you. I do this, but this is because my meta is completely flooded with loam, and thus I'm an exception among Gobbo Players.

[undone]

He doesn't need a bigger ego, but you, sir, are not Bryant Cook.

Agreed.

Theres a reason he puts up results with that deck and no one else can seem to. Although the 10% of the metagoyf being thresh at any given event would make me think that TES> the rest?

I can play TES and most players playing thresh (read about 50-60%) dont play it totaly correct, and while they play and anti combo deck they dont actualy PLAYTEST the combo MU. Just assume "Im playing thresh I beat combo"


I dont think I would play aggro loam, I dont want to punt combo MUs, especialy beltcher. So it looks like combo, or Blue based is the way to go.

I think that Landstill is the most consistent choice in the metagame but I dont honestly know if I could take the "TIME 5 turns left" every single game.

[technogeek5000]

I dont think I would play aggro loam, I dont want to punt combo MUs, especialy beltcher. So it looks like combo, or Blue based is the way to go.


Aggro loam doesnt punt combo MU's, contrary to popular belief. As long as you dont run a board with 4 to 5 really bad wish targets as I have seen then you have so many cards to side in. Also as long as your splashin atleast one color it gets much easier. Belcher is a favorable matchup because they can never play ETW, ever. If they do then you absolutely wreck them with one of 7 devastating dreams. You side in (or have maindeck) chalices to stop them and it becomes even easier. If your expecting a really good amount of dregde then I would suggest the white splash as you get Morningtide for a wsh target and STP for the best removal. Against TES and FT, preboard is hard but not unwinnable. You just attack their lands and they also cant cast ETW because there are so many answers for it. After the board it becomes easier.

[Zach Tartell]

Whats your goblins/landstill MU?

Goblins is usually an excellent game 1 (you have so many ways to slow them down and fog until you can win outright with WOW), and depends greatly on splash for games two and 3. Green usually is for K-Grip, but if it's for Tranquil Domain you're in trouble. Boarding usually includes bringing in a Karmic Justice and any Humilities you have for stupid anit-control stuff.

Landstill varies so much by build that it's not even worth putting numbers on it. BHWC (WW?) (4c) is sometimes easy, if you can resolve a Choke or Blood Moon (they're usually mutually exclusive, so take your pick), 'cause then Deed is almost un-castable (and then "Pop deed-able"). Wish builds depend on the colors they play, and what they have to bring in. Traditional Uw can be deleterious (look out for Akroma's Vengeance).

If you want some real data (which I'm too lazy to actually type up here) PM me or Spatula or something.

[Michael Keller]

I really think you have to be an experienced control player to pick up any Landstill variant and do well with it. Some people get overzealous and just play the deck for name's sake. If you're a seasoned control player, then I would highly recommend Landstill.

Goblins might not be a bad choice. But you should consider what to tutor for when playing Matron and what to play post-Ringleader with or without Lackey. There's a lot of consideration no matter what deck you decide to pick up. Just be prepared and practice. That's all you really can do for an event this large.

[Jujuhawk]

Id say Aggro Loam, but Ill admit my opinion is slightly biased due to thats the deck I play. Aggro Loam has good game against threshold (just dont blindly cast dreams and you will be fine) and theirs just so many options for dregde in the board (I run 1 morningtide for the wish board and 4 leylines... has really brought up the percentage) that ichorid can be dealt with. Aggro loam has good game against most aggro and control and for the combo you have your board. It can deal with randomness and is resilient to hate (the only game Ive ever lost to someone bringing hate against me is when the opponent played 2 tormods crypts and 3 extirpates on all my win conditions).

Theirs plenty of other options too that could do well so just play what ever is cheapest to build and will do good against the meta.

Aggro Loam Auto-loses to ichorid and no ammount of sideboard hate can help it. Your only hope is to get EE turn 2 and win relatively fast (which the deck struggles to do). Basically if you play aggro loam then just pray that you don't play against ichorid. The deck stomps thresh and it has well-rounded matchups if you're a good player.

However, I agree with most people that landstill is a good choice. The deck is great vs. thresh and beats most random decks as well as goblins. You at least have some hope against ichorid as well.

[emidln]

Aggro Loam Auto-loses to ichorid and no ammount of sideboard hate can help it. Your only hope is to get EE turn 2 and win relatively fast (which the deck struggles to do). Basically if you play aggro loam then just pray that you don't play against ichorid. The deck stomps thresh and it has well-rounded matchups if you're a good player.

However, I agree with most people that landstill is a good choice. The deck is great vs. thresh and beats most random decks as well as goblins. You at least have some hope against ichorid as well.

You mean Aggro Loam doesn't board Extirpate, Leyline of the Void, or Tormod's Crypt? Every build I've ever seen does, which would combine nicely with the potential for EE, Yixlid Jailer, and a really fast clock to make the Ichorid matchup not all that bad postboard (depending on the exact board, even good).

[Elficidium]

Aggro Loam Auto-loses to ichorid and no ammount of sideboard hate can help it. Your only hope is to get EE turn 2 and win relatively fast (which the deck struggles to do). Basically if you play aggro loam then just pray that you don't play against ichorid. The deck stomps thresh and it has well-rounded matchups if you're a good player.

Noone auto-loses to Ichorid. Ichorid is a combo deck and it can fizzle, or just win 1 turn too slow and get stuck with an army of Huge Tarmogoyfs/terravores/crushers on the other end of the table.

[Jujuhawk]

Noone auto-loses to Ichorid. Ichorid is a combo deck and it can fizzle, or just win 1 turn too slow and get stuck with an army of Huge Tarmogoyfs/terravores/crushers on the other end of the table.

An army? The deck plays 16 creatures at the most, and my list runs 4 bob 4 goyf 2 crusher and 4 vore. By turn 5 the most you will have is MAYBE 2 creatures. Unless the ichorid player is terrible or is very unlucky you have absolutely no chance. The list I play has given up the SB slots for ichorid in favor of cards that might actually help other matchups.

[thefreakaccident]

These are two things you should put into consideration, unless you are one of those players that participates in large tournaments often (doesn't seem like it, because you are asking for help to begin with, and should be able to metagame for yourself) you should be able to pilot a ccontrol deck to great success...

The thing is, piloting a control deck like 4c landstill/UWb landstill can be physically and mentally straining for a prolonged tournament...

I would suggest you play something simple and non-stressful deck, the less descisions, the better... a quick combo deck like belcher (sure there is descisions when you are facing hate, but against those decks not packing hate, you get a bye to clear your head), or something like goblins or threshold... I
just know I am going to get attacked here, but I actually enjoyed playing Thrash, as it was able to either:

a. win quickly (gives you time between matches)

b. be easy to play (for me at least)

Thresh also beats random agro, and has a positive combo MU, it can occasionally give control fits as well.... I suggest playing Thrash, or a combo deck... For your sideboard against ichorid in Thrash, some number of clasm and crypts outa do it, you may be able to race, but it is still a piss-poor MU.

I personally have won 2 rounds against ichorid with that deck in the same tournament (wasted colleseum into fizzle both times (resp to LED casting, and stifled narcomoebas)... Not a good MU, but you can pull it.

[undone]

Belcher and ichorid are fast. The biggest thing I noticed that A) while fun for a while combo becomes increadably mechanical after 4+ rounds. B) control just X.X and die from overheated brains. C) I dont play aggro because while its easy to play its so easily beaten, its just not as good as combo or control most of the time.

So If I was to play combo which would be better (assuming I know how to play each extreamly well) Ichorid, or TES.

I know the whole landstill taxes your body, you win every match in game but lose it outside of the game due to the amount of time you actualy play. I am used to playing 5 rounds of control but its still HELL to do it.

I think that combo would be a decent choice since I am fairly good at piloting past hate, and know the format really well but I have no idea about what actualy happens in terms of what you face on average. I would expect it to be something like

Goblins
Goblins/other aggro/burn
Blue based aggro control/thresh/not quite
Landstill
Combo
Dreadstill
Stompy

over the course of several rounds.

The bottom line is I KNOW control (landstill spesificaly) is generaly the best but I dont think I have the mental endurance to pilot it to time every round.

[Nihil Credo]

An army? The deck plays 16 creatures at the most, and my list runs 4 bob 4 goyf 2 crusher and 4 vore. By turn 5 the most you will have is MAYBE 2 creatures. Unless the ichorid player is terrible or is very unlucky you have absolutely no chance. The list I play has given up the SB slots for ichorid in favor of cards that might actually help other matchups.

Not running 4 Crushers is wrong. They're the best creature in any deck built around the Loam engine.

Anyway, it's very true that Aggro Loam loses every G1 to Ichorid short of a god-draw (say, a very fast Countryside Crusher + DDreams combo).

However, it's perfectly possible to tune the sideboard to make a match win not just possible, but actually realistic (40% maybe).

There is a bare minimum of three mandatory Wish slots (LftL, DDreams, Gleeful Sabotage), but it's more sensible to go with five (+1 Nostalgic Dreams, and Shattering Spree + Reverent Silence instead of Sabotage). That leaves you the relative luxury of ten slots to prepare for the expected metagame.

Your main bad matchups are Storm combo and Ichorid, neither of which you will beat in G1 without some truly savage luck. There are also some matchups which are beatable, but not nearly auto-wins, and common enough that you could use the help (Goblins with Weirding, Blue decks with BEBs).

I still haven't found a way to cover all of these at once, but it's easy to cover multiples of them. For example, 4 Leyline of the Void (or perhaps Offalsnout) / 4 Plague / 2 Blood Moon makes Ichorid quite winnable, consolidates Goblins, and offers something against Tropical Island decks; however, being matched against Storm combo is an autoloss. Another possible configuration is 4 Thoughtseize / 3 Trinisphere / 3 Krosan Grip, leaving you with a tough Goblin matchup and an Ichorid autoloss but beating control hard and having actually good hopes against Storm.

Of course, you may also include some extra Wish targets in those slots. For Ichorid, Dwell on the Past or Morningtide would be the main candidates.

tl;dr: Aggro Loam can't beat everything at once, but its own engine is strong enough that with the help of a half dozen SB slots it can fight against pretty much any deck.

[thefreakaccident]

Belcher and ichorid are fast. The biggest thing I noticed that A) while fun for a while combo becomes increadably mechanical after 4+ rounds. B) control just X.X and die from overheated brains. C) I dont play aggro because while its easy to play its so easily beaten, its just not as good as combo or control most of the time.

So If I was to play combo which would be better (assuming I know how to play each extreamly well) Ichorid, or TES.

I know the whole landstill taxes your body, you win every match in game but lose it outside of the game due to the amount of time you actualy play. I am used to playing 5 rounds of control but its still HELL to do it.

I think that combo would be a decent choice since I am fairly good at piloting past hate, and know the format really well but I have no idea about what actualy happens in terms of what you face on average. I would expect it to be something like

Goblins
Goblins/other aggro/burn
Blue based aggro control/thresh/not quite
Landstill
Combo
Dreadstill
Stompy

over the course of several rounds.

The bottom line is I KNOW control (landstill spesificaly) is generaly the best but I dont think I have the mental endurance to pilot it to time every round.

You will not see too much Dradstill, at the pt side event there were only 2 players and only one of them was in the winners' bracket...

Lets annalyze the decks that you have put up:
agro, stompy (shouldn't see too much of, although you will see it guaranteed), landstill, combo, threshold...

A deck that gives 3/5 of these decks fits is survival, it has a tougher MU against Dstompy and combo, but with the proper sideboard you can even beat those... I think I found your deck.

[Rood]

Play Dreadstill or Landstill. You seem like a good control player so that sounds like the correct choice.

[undone]

If I play landstill which would be the best of these

UWb/g landstill W/o goyf with LFTL/Cwish
UWb cunning landstill.
UWbg goyfstill

Each has its advantages,

UWbg with LFTL and C wish is the strongest Period. But its manabase is 1 wasteland+stifle from offline and dont get me started on blood moon.

UWb is the same as UWbg without goyf, its strong but trades deed for Wrath and LFTL for crucible which is worse then LFTL. Biggest bonus... Your land base includes 5+ basics.

UWbg goyfstill. Weaker then UWbg with LFTL and Cwish, but has the huge bonus of ending games without going to time.