Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I strongly recommend to run 7 moon effects (i. e. 4 Magi and 3 Blood Moon). In addition, more than 8 colour dependent are very clunky without a Painter on the board.
I am testing the following list:
// Lands
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Painter's Servant
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
3 Blood Moon
// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Shattering Spree
4 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
It seems to me that an SB for this deck should include:
xX Pyrokenisis
xX Pithing Needle
xX Blood Moon
xX Some sort of larger beater.
Also, I was interested in an SDT version that someone was testing. Anyone know how that went?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Some beaters you can get with Recruiter:
Tarean mauler is about it I think.
O ya, Anaba Grunt as well.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shimster
I strongly recommend to run 7 moon effects (i. e. 4 Magi and 3 Blood Moon). In addition, more than 8 colour dependent are very clunky without a Painter on the board.
I am testing the following list:
// Lands
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Painter's Servant
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
3 Blood Moon
// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Shattering Spree
4 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
I have to say that Shimster's list seems strong in a meta that isn't heavily blue. Your SB, though, seems to turn you into Stompy. What MU does that help in? Also, when do you bring in 3Sphere? Against Thresh? Frankly, that seems awful as you run 8 blasts that are already good against Thresh.
Is Jitte the best Gobs hate you could think of? Won't the board in Grips already?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I'm testing Top in this deck recently and it works out pretty great for me. Problems with 2-Mana-Lands aren't that big as you can just look two times in the Top to avoid Manaburn. In addition, Top does not slow you down - if you have the combopieces already, then you don't need to play Top. If you don't have them Top is pretty great in finding them. To use Top to an maximum effect I run 5 Fetchies instead of 5 Mountains. Sure, with Magus on the Board they don't shuffle anymore but that's not a problem. The only disadvantage of Fetchies is that Manadenial in form of WastelandStifle actually gets pretty good against you - but as there aren't that many (the number tends to be 0) TempoTresh/StifleNaught decks in my meta so I don't think that I'll get my fetchlands stifled.
Edit: For reference: I basically run Shimster's list -3 Blood Moon +3 Tops and in the SB -3 Jitte +3 Moon.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
First, this deck seems interesting and appears to be able to handle Aggro-Control and Control, but how exactly do you beat combo like Ichorid or TES? It seems like, without sideboarding, that combo would kill before you can really disrupt them. As far as I can see we can only really counter Brainstorm, diminishing returns or Ponder(I believe some lists still run this).
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shimster
I strongly recommend to run 7 moon effects (i. e. 4 Magi and 3 Blood Moon). In addition, more than 8 colour dependent are very clunky without a Painter on the board.
I am testing the following list:
// Lands
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Painter's Servant
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
// Spells
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
3 Blood Moon
// Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Shattering Spree
4 Trinisphere
3 Umezawa's Jitte
I think it's a good idea to avoid the seven Moon effects. Blood Moon isn't really a business spell in the late game and considering you run four main-deck Magus plus Recruiter, that should be sufficient. The original list Okazawa Tatsuya ran had four Blood Moon in the sideboard. I suggest boarding into four more Moons simply because games two and three you typically run into Krosan Grip and it poses an issue whether your opponent wants to expend on Painter or Moon. Magus game one (and into two and three paired with Moon) should be enough I'd think.
As for Ichorid:
Magus shuts down Coliseum and all other resources.
Your Blasts counter Careful Study, Breakthrough, and destroy Narcomoeba and Cephalid Sage.
You play Lightning Bolt.
Seriously, I've played against Ichorid in the majority of my tournament matches and I've never lost a round to it. It's a pretty favorable match even post-board. If they go first and lead off with L.E.D. and Deep Analysis, that can obviously pose an issue unless you have Monkey-Blast.
T.E.S. is another story. It's all about who combos faster. Magus can slow the game down a tad and Blast effects do have some relevance on the important draw spells. Again, you play Lightning Bolt, so assuming your opponent pays half their life in that scenario you can do some damage that way. Just this past weekend I was tapped out against T.E.S. and my opponent was at storm 11 when he proceeded to Diminishing Returns. I Monkey-Blasted it. I'm not saying this happens often, but it shows you have ways of stalling the game and screwing with your opponent's resources in order to win (I ended up winning the round). Bryant and I tested a few times between the decks and it was close to 50/50. But if I'd have to give an advantage I'd say it would go to T.E.S. simply by speed in general. Your sideboard is meta-dependent, so considering my meta has T.E.S. and Ichorid all over the place, you have to adapt. Bryant and I have played this match in tournament action twice, with an even split at 1-1.
And trust me from experience, no matter what you play, when T.E.S. casts Brainstorm, it usually ends bad for you that turn or the next.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Is Shattering Spree shut down by Chalice @1? If so, I am wondering why it is the sideboard artifact hate of choice. If not, I guess I understand.
One other question: has anyone tried different 1-of creatures? I know Shusher can be good. I also like the idea of 1 SB Silent Arbiter and maybe a Grim Lavamancer.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
The first copy gets countered, but the replicates go on the stack and are unaffected by Chalice at 1.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Imperial Painter takes Finals at the big Hadley event in Mass.! See the Tournament Reports and Announcements thread for details!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Nice job Legend. I like your list man (maindecking Trinisphere seems awesome and Macabre is really smart).
I have to ask again about Magma Jets in the place of Lightning Bolts. I can't help but think that the Jets' scrying would have helped you in that last game against Survival more than Bolts. And it seems like the Pyrokinesis in the SB could make up for the lost removal ability if needed. Specifically with your newer list, I wonder if more consistent topdecking from Scry in worth giving up one point of burn, especially if Trinisphere will sometimes make both spells cost 3. Obviously you know what you're doing with this deck, so I'm interested in what you think from your experience.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Here's the problem with Magma Jet over Lightning Bolt:
The curve of this deck is very strange: It has a lot of three casting-cost cards which you play off one red and either a Tomb or City, and SSG which is typically pitched. The only two-cost card you play is Painter, which coincidentally costs two colorless. Now, you can obviously play it with two Mountains out, but you want to try and keep a red open at all times unless you're casting a dude (or Painter off the two mana land, leaving red open for REB effects). Lightning Bolt is just way too good to take out, and it really evened things out and got me to the Finals. The fact it costs one is just too good. The scry is important, but I want the third damage and one less mana more so.
EDIT: And seriously, Trinisphere was a last-day decision. It's just ridiculous how good that card is in the format right now, with combo everywhere. You play accelerators that help you get around it, which makes it even better. It also shuts down control, for the most part. And Magus turn one does win games all-by-him-self. He was MVP of my whole tournament.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
How do the deck do vs DS? FS? Stacks? Chalice seems to be dangerous.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mordenkaynen
How do the deck do vs DS? FS? Stacks? Chalice seems to be dangerous.
Chalice for one is not dangerous by any means. You can draw or Imperial Recruiter for Jaya Ballard, Task Mage with Painter out and destroy it. Goblin Tinkerer also does the job post-board. You play accelerators, so again, it's not like you can't win the race. You play 14 three-casting cost creatures, and 4 at two-cost with 16 accelerators.
Plus, dropping a boat-load of creatures and swinging each turn helps too.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A Legend
Here's the problem with Magma Jet over Lightning Bolt:
The curve of this deck is very strange: It has a lot of three casting-cost cards which you play off one red and either a Tomb or City, and SSG which is typically pitched. The only two-cost card you play is Painter, which coincidentally costs two colorless. Now, you can obviously play it with two Mountains out, but you want to try and keep a red open at all times unless you're casting a dude (or Painter off the two mana land, leaving red open for REB effects). Lightning Bolt is just way too good to take out, and it really evened things out and got me to the Finals. The fact it costs one is just too good. The scry is important, but I want the third damage and one less mana more so.
EDIT: And seriously, Trinisphere was a last-day decision. It's just ridiculous how good that card is in the format right now, with combo everywhere. You play accelerators that help you get around it, which makes it even better. It also shuts down control, for the most part. And Magus turn one does win games all-by-him-self. He was MVP of my whole tournament.
Yeah, I noticed that in your report every time you dropped 3Sphere it would bait a counter, which then would let you drop Servant. However, 3Sphere does seriously shut down blasts. Did that ever create problems for you?
Isn't it time this deck moved to the established forum?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mental
Yeah, I noticed that in your report every time you dropped 3Sphere it would bait a counter, which then would let you drop Servant. However, 3Sphere does seriously shut down blasts. Did that ever create problems for you?
Isn't it time this deck moved to the established forum?
Not at all. I had no difficulty dropping what I needed. It's funny, Trinisphere almost acts like a pseudo Arcane Laboratory against most decks. It's just I drop 3cc spells off the two mana lands and go for beats. I've Blasted around Trinisphere. It takes a little bit more but nothing too much.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Those SB Shushers help against Chalice too.
Legend, I was wondering about how 4 MD Trinisphere affected your own spells also. After making that last minute decision, would you keep 4 maindecked, or move some to the SB?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DrewliusMaximus
Those SB Shushers help against Chalice too.
Legend, I was wondering about how 4 MD Trinisphere affected your own spells also. After making that last minute decision, would you keep 4 maindecked, or move some to the SB?
Main-deck Trinisphere all the way. Think of it this way: If you have three mana to get Sphere online turn one, then you have Blast mana then or down the road. Remember, you're not countering anything until turn three or four because of 3Sphere shut-down, so you don't have to worry about it. Plus, turn one 3Sphere, turn two Painter, turn three blow up their land is really solid, especially if you draw into more Blasts.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
So with the 3Spheres and Blasts and everything, does the Storm Combo matchup still need Pyrostatic Pillars pretty badly, or are they just to make the matchup "very favorable"?
I'm asking because as I put this deck together, I want to prepare for The Rock and I'm thinking about using SB slots for that.