[SCD] Entomb

Yeah, I really hate these [SCD] threads, mostly but not exclusively because they usually are about really shitty cards. Obviously shitty cards. Time to step up and try and make one about a playable card for a change.
Wizards, in their infinite wisdom decided to grant us access to this little gem.


http://magiccards.info/scans/en/od/132.jpg


Oh nOES! Teh Sky is fAllinzzzz

So, now that we're past the "Oh nOES! Teh Sky is fAllinzzzz"-point of the debate, let's see how we can break this card =)

Ichorid: This deck basically gets a Demonic Tutor for B. Should be good, I think.
Reanimator: Another rather obvious choice. Between Entomb and Buried Alives you can minimize the number of beatsticks you have to play. Furthermore this deck gets a whole lot faster with the card.
Loam.decs: Searches up Loam, Utility Lands, Worm Harves,... pretty much a Gamble that won't discard your precious Terravore. Might see some play, though it's probably worse than Intuition.
Your personal junky combo.dec of choice:
Footsteps of the Goryo
Entomb
Protean Hulk

You heard it here first folks!

What other archetypes is this card good in? And is there maybe a new combo to break the format? Discuss!

Ha. Hadn't thought about Hulk/Footsteps. Looking for something better, though, as Hulk bites it to StP and still requires a pretty amount of slots. Both parts of the combo can be fetched by Mystical Tutor, though, and since you're already black/blue, you have access to a mighty fine discard suit as well as potentially FoW. Intuition as backup and additional tutoring.
Warrants some testing if nothing else.



As for the comparison with Gamble:
- Gamble will randomly discard stuff you need
- Gamble will randomly get you stuff you need
Do these balance out? Personally, I like my cards doing what I expect them to. Instant-speed is also nothing to scoff at.



As an aside, Entomb can also enable the cheaper flashback cards, especially disenchants, which essentially helps anything that uses those anway.
Like, you don't have four Grudges in your Ichorid sideboard. Nah, you have five (virtually, of course). Same thing for Loam decks.
Raven's Crime and Worm's Harvest as well as some other gy-themed cards fit right into that pattern. Anger, Genesis, etc. Give all my dorks haste for B? Seems fine. Oh, and if you Clasm or something, I'll just get a Bridge.
Heh. Get Squee. Or Nether Spirit in Pox, or that new 2/1 landfall guy.



I don't think Reanimator will instantly become tier 1 or even tier 2, but it can't be denied that Entomb/Reanimate is a game plan far superior to Study/Reanimate/fattie.
A shell with Pull from Eternity, Tainted Pact, and maybe even Serum Powder doesn't seem as inane as it did before, although I'm pretty sure if I tried I'd end up having to cut 20+ cards.



And of course it'll break Pyromancer Ascension :o

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Originally Posted by Noman Peopled

Ha. Hadn't thought about Hulk/Footsteps. Looking for something better, though, as Hulk bites it to StP and still requires a pretty amount of slots. Both parts of the combo can be fetched by Mystical Tutor, though, and since you're already black/blue, you have access to a mighty fine discard suit as well as potentially FoW. Intuition as backup and additional tutoring.
Warrants some testing if nothing else.

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NOW we're talking.

With Entomb, you only need one or two Hulks, cutting open two slots.

Hulk + Karmic Guide/Body Snatcher/Body Double + Feeder + Jiki

Snatcher also provides another way to initially reanimate Hulk.

Then you have Cabal Therapy and Innocent Blood, Thoughtseize, Counterbalance, Daze, Force, Brainstorm, Ponder, and whatever else. Accumulated Knowledge for cute points. Exhume to diversify the curve and get Hulk back. Wipe Away/Rushing River for permanent removal. Predict as an extra way to mill Hulk off the top and draw some cards. You can also probably run Bob safely because most of your deck is cheap.

Questions: exact numbers, optimal number of lands, plan versus graveyard hate, and fundamental turn.

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

Ichorid: This deck basically gets a Demonic Tutor for B. Should be good, I think.

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And what you're going to get? Ichorid need to dump good number of cards to win the game, not a single one. Ichorid wins by overhelming the opponent with massive card advantage, not with silver bullets.

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

NOW we're talking.

Hulk + Karmic Guide/Body Snatcher/Body Double + Feeder + Jiki

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Add Necromancy to the list. If you play it on your opponent turn you also get to sac your hulk.

Aggro-Loam gets Anger, Genesis, Life from the Loam, Raven's Crime, Ancient Grudge/Ray of Revelation and all of the utility lands, considering Aggro-Loam is too top heavy for Intuition it's probably the best fit (other than a Reanimator esq. deck)

I've often encountered good hands (with Ichorid), but I had to mull them because I had no Dredger. Entomb ups the chances. I'll certainly test it.

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Originally Posted by Elfrago

And what you're going to get? Ichorid need to dump good number of cards to win the game, not a single one. Ichorid wins by overhelming the opponent with massive card advantage, not with silver bullets.

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Well, first and foremost Entomb acts as an additional Dredger, which is hugh on its own. Furthermore it should allow you to speed up your kill by tutoring for Dread Returns/Zealot/"that new carddraw Sphinx" if needed. It can help you recover quicker after your opponent "Mogg Fenantic"ed you. Postboard, it can get you that Ancient Grudge to force the Crypt activation without having to mill half of your bib.
The main reason I see to run this card is its flexibility. Against combo you get a faster kill, against aggro it assures that you hit your Dredgers, against everything else, well you're pretty much in a good shape anyway.

First turn Entomb for Golgari Grave Troll, second turn Breakthrough/Brainstorm/Careful Study seems pretty sick.

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Originally Posted by Elfrago

Add Necromancy to the list. If you play it on your opponent turn you also get to sac your hulk.

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I suppose. It seems weak, but would be worth a slot, something like 4 Exhume/Reanimate, 2 Necromancy.

Although...I think that deck's plan would be to stick a Counterbalance lock first, then combo. Because of the extra step necessitated by getting Hulk into play and then dead via Entomb, the combo is more vulnerable than Flash. If that's the case, it doesn't matter much what you use to reanimate it since you're planning on being stabilized by that point anyway.

I think. Someone help me out here, there's a lot that can go in this list but very few spots. Combo looks as follows:

2 Hulk
1 Guide
1 Jiki
1 Feeder

Possibly -1 Hulk, +1 of that one white 1/1 that can sac to give protection. Then you need 4 Untomb, at least five reanimation spells, and the rest of your deck is control. That's fourteen or so slots total for the combo, taking up a little more room than a conventional CounterTop's creature base (4 Goyf, 4 Pridemage, 2-3 War Monk, X Clique).

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

The main reason I see to run this card is its flexibility. Against combo you get a faster kill, against aggro it assures that you hit your Dredgers, against everything else, well you're pretty much in a good shape anyway.

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This. Entomb is not a toolbox engine in Dredge. (Except that, well, it is. But not primarily.)
But compare it to Careful Study or PImp. Both need a dredger in hand to do anything worthwhile early on. Granted, Study is better if you need to draw into mana t1 and PImp is a better attacker as well as resuable. But with Entomb and a land in your hand, you will dredge for 6 next turn, end of story.
It's more likely that you'll whiff than with PImp/Troll or Study/dual dredge, but those are ideal situations, especially in a deck that mulligans pretty often.

Entomb/Breakthrough is also way more consistent that Entomb/Breakthrough/random dredger.

Good enough? Dunno. Test-worthy? Definitely.

You could ofcourse go into shennanigans with Recurring Nightmare and Eternal Witness. You could go out from a Recurring Rock shell and fit the combo in.

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Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

Well, first and foremost Entomb acts as an additional Dredger, which is hugh on its own. Furthermore it should allow you to speed up your kill by tutoring for Dread Returns/Zealot/"that new carddraw Sphinx" if needed. It can help you recover quicker after your opponent "Mogg Fenantic"ed you. Postboard, it can get you that Ancient Grudge to force the Crypt activation without having to mill half of your bib.
The main reason I see to run this card is its flexibility. Against combo you get a faster kill, against aggro it assures that you hit your Dredgers, against everything else, well you're pretty much in a good shape anyway.

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Additional card draw already achieves most of what you're saying, and does that faster than Entomb while also being better after the first turn. And most Ichorids lists do not pack the full set of Careful studies, can't see why they should pack Entomb.

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Originally Posted by Mantis

First turn Entomb for Golgari Grave Troll, second turn Breakthrough/Brainstorm/Careful Study seems pretty sick.

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First turn Putrid Imp + Second Turn Breakthrough/Brainstorm/Careful Study is better.
First turn Careful Study + Second Turn Breakthrough/Brainstorm/Careful Study is better.
First turn LED + Same Turn Breakthrough/Brainstorm/Careful Study is better.

Entomb should fit in the "enablers" slot of the deck, but all the other enablers are better than Entomb.
You can't cut card draw becouse then you would slow down the deck too much.
Can't cut PIMP becouse it allows you to dredge more than once with a single dredger, and Entomb does'nt.
Can't cut LED becouse it's OMG.

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Originally Posted by Elfrago

Entomb should fit in the "enablers" slot of the deck, but all the other enablers are better than Entomb.

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Except where it's the only enabler that doesn't need a dredger in hand or the top two cards.

I played a little around with a black grow list, to include 2 or 3 Entomb and 1 Wonder and 1 Lftl. But I don't think it works out really well...

Loam, Survival, Ichorid and maybe Storm will be breaking this card sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by MSC

I played a little around with a black grow list, to include 2 or 3 Entomb and 1 Wonder and 1 Lftl. But I don't think it works out really well...

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Heh, that was basically my first experiment as well. Except I play a full set of Entombs as well as 4 Witness/1 Ruins/1 Stronghold, and a few more Entomb targets (gogo Deep Analysis!). Almost certainly won't turn out very good if I actually do any testing.

Isn't Entomb -> Deep Analysis with LED in hand just ridiculously good? It's like playing 5 Deep Analysis, except Entomb actually does something by itself.

Ichorid has already been mentioned.

Then there's the possibility of a new storm combo deck using Entomb (for Magus of the Jar) + Shallow Grave as a 1BB Draw7-effect...that can get sick rather fast since each Grave you draw/tutor up after the first gets you another seven cards. Would have to play Chants, of course...

Also, someone once mentioned that Entomb would break Salvagers. I don't think it's THAT good, but it definitely has potential - play 4 Exhume and 4 Reanimate and use Entomb to tutor up Salvagers, LED, or a Spellbomb, whatever you need for the combo (plus you can use LED + reanimation to get a Salvager as soon as turn one).


I can even see using Entomb in decks that usually don't use their graveyard - a Bridge from Below or Wonder effect in a tribal deck, with the added possibility of getting a Ray or Grudge against nasty permanents, or a Life from the Loam when you're manascrewed, could prove to be very useful.

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

I can even see using Entomb in decks that usually don't use their graveyard - a Bridge from Below or Wonder effect in a tribal deck, with the added possibility of getting a Ray or Grudge against nasty permanents, or a Life from the Loam when you're manascrewed, could prove to be very useful.

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Now that's an idea I like. Tutoring for Bridge from Below, I mean.

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Originally Posted by Skeggi

I've often encountered good hands (with Ichorid), but I had to mull them because I had no Dredger. Entomb ups the chances. I'll certainly test it.

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Extactly. The point that was made earlier about Ichorid winning through dumping alot of cards and not silver bullets is completely valid, I have had to mull perfectly good hands due to no dredgers, where a single entomb could have pushed that game over the top.

As it's been said before worth some serious testing.