U/W/x CounterTop Walker

Current decklist (as of 12/20/10)
U/W/b CounterTop Walker

Lands (23)
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Kor Haven

Spells (37)
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Predict
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Vindicate
2 Vedalken Shackles

Sideboard (15)
2 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Pithing Needle
4 Duress
4 Relic of Progenitus


(Somewhat) Original Post:
Ok, well, this has been something I've been meaning to do for a long time and I always get too lazy to do it. So I'm finally just going to do it, ya know?

So what is CounterTop Walker anyway? It's a blue based control deck, like Landstill, that uses Counterbalance as both a control element and a form of card advantage, and uses Planeswalker's as the deck's primary win conditions.

This deck is an evolution of Landstill. This isn't something I thought of one night and created a random decklist for, this is an evolution that I've been working on for years. The deck started originally as a classic U/W Landstill deck, and it has been slowly evolving since then. For all intents and purposes, I still consider this deck a Landstill variant, even though I'm no longer running Standstills.

This is the deck that I believe is the correct evolution of control in the format.

Let me just say, that Planeswalkers, specifically Elspeth and Jace 2.0, have redefined the power level of win conditions for control decks. I remember several years ago when the questionable area of all control decks was always the win conditions. Not anymore.

Also, I don't understand why people in the Landstill thread are so resistant to using Counterbalance in the maindeck. It's only the best control spell in the entire format for any sort of attrition based game, which is exactly what decks like Landstill do. To boot, it doesn't just dominate the stack and that's that, it generates actual card advantage. Yes, every spell after the first spell Counterbalance counters in any given game becomes card advantage... spell numero uno is card parity, after that the +CA starts rolling in.

What makes Counterbalance even more lethal in a dedicated control deck like Landstill, is that while Counterbalance itself doesn't reverse a bad board position, Wrath of God does, and then the active CounterTop proceeds to spell game over for opponent. Without Counterbalance, any deck can recover after a Wrath of God, but Counterbalance doesn't let them do that. Counterbalance makes cards like Wrath of God stronger, which is something that decks like Landstill have been needing for a long time to remain viable.

I've heard all of the arguments before. The cmc isn't as good as other decks using Counterbalance, Counterbalance is too slow and Spell Snare is better, so on and so forth. This is all folley.

The deck doesn't need to be primarily 1cc, 2cc, and enough 3cc for Counterbalance to be any good. Those decks that use Counterbalance for the purpose of hardlocking don't run as many other control spells as a dedicated control deck does, so they need to get more mileage out of their Counterbalances. They also don't intend to grind the game out quite as much as a dedicated control deck, so they don't have as much time to set up a CounterTop lock and so they rely on blindflipping alot more. So yea, maybe my Counterbalances don't savagely blindflip as good as the next guys. That doesn't make Counterbalance any less savage in my deck, though. 10+ 1cc and 10+ 2cc spells have proven to be more than enough for Counterbalance to get the job done. What Counterbalance doesn't answer, specifically 3cc spells, Counterspell does. Or I can just nuke it with Vindicate. Just sayin.

Next, I don't understand running narrow cards like Spell Snare. The deck is more than capable of answering spells early without it, and can easily answer the spells that do slip through the cracks just a few turns later. Some people sware by the card, and this isn't a Spell Snare vs Counterbalance thread, so I'll just leave it at that for the meantime.

Look at what Counterbalance does for the archtype, though. It turns horrible matchups into positive matchups. ANT becomes a much better matchup, Reanimator becomes a much better matchup, Aggro Loam becomes a much better matchup, Burn/Sligh/Zoo all become a much better matchup... I mean, seriously, I can go on and on.

The only matchups that negate the power of Counterbalance are the decks that are already designed to do that, namely Vial Aggro, like Goblins and Merfolk. Luckily, this deck isn't as dependant on Counterbalance against aggro decks as other dedicated Counterbalance decks tend to be, so I'm not shooting myself in the foot. Postboard, it's a very simple fix to cut Counterbalances, and hell, might as well cut Force of Wills too, for a ton more creature removal. Last time I checked, control decks with lots of creature removal > aggro decks.

As far as the splash goes, I prefer U/W/b. U/W/r is also a very viable option. I guess the question becomes, what matchups does each splash strengthen. Red clearly improves the aggro matchups, and Red Elemental Blast in the sideboard can be very strong too.

However, I think black can improve the aggro matchup just as easily as red, since it also offers additional removal. Innocent Blood and Smother instead of Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix, Perish instead of Firespout, so on and so forth. Except black tends to be a more versatile splash color, primarily because of Vindicate.

My current decklist (as of 7/6/2010)

U/W/b CounterTop Walker

Lands (23)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Kor Haven

Spells (37)
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
3 Predict
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
2 Doom Blade
2 Vindicate

Sideboard (15)
4 Innocent Blood
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Meddling Mage
4 Relic of Progenitus


As you can see, the deck is basically a Landstill deck that decided Standstills were just no longer what they used to be. Without Decree, 4 Factories is really not enough to compete with all the decks running around with their own manlands + Wastelands, not to mention the Vial aggro that completely invalidate it as a draw engine.

I don't run my own Wastelands because I'm a control deck, I want to make land drops not lose them, and I'm 3c with 4 colorless lands already. Vindicate answers the random problematic lands that I'd want Wasteland for, like Academy Ruins, while being a catch all for everything else too.

So what replaces Standstill? Well... Sensei's Divining Top is the best card in the entire deck, so that's an automatic 4-of. Brainstorm is an automatic 4-of in nearly every blue based deck out there. The new Jace has the ability to discover the top card of libraries... hmm. Oh yea, what about that card that Threshold used to run back in the day that was really good at drawing cards? Predict.

A turn 1 Top enables draw 2 Predicts for the rest of the entire game. It's instant speed draw, so the deck can stay untapped incase it needs to Counterspell, Edict, Swords, whatever... then draws 2 when nothing else is goin down. Between Top, fetchlands, and Predict... the deck munches through cards to make sure it has a stockload of the very best cards. Predict may be a draw 2, but it's a virtual draw 3, just like Brainstorm (puts the shittiest card of the top 3 into the graveyard).

This isn't even relevant to why the spell works so damn well in this build, but... Predict'ing away the ANT and Reanimator spells that get put to the top with Mystical Tutor is just fun times.

Anyways, other than the controversial Predict and Counterbalance, the rest of the deck is Landstill. I'm hoping by now that Elspeth and Jace 2.0 are commonly accepted as being very strong, but I'll dig into that deeper if need be. What I like so much about them both is that, aside from them both being extremely fast clocks on a clean board, they both excel at control.

I could go into detail with matchup analysis and so on and so forth, and I will when I get some more time to type it out. I'll edit this post when I get more time to do so. For now, I simply wanted to make a new thread for this deck because it just doesn't fit in the Landstill thread any longer.

Enjoy, discuss, or whatever it is the cool kids do these days.

Looks like a pretty solid list with an exception. I don't understand the Edicts. You don't even run any creatures so why not just replace them with Innocent Blood and make room in the board?

Part of the Landstill success was due to Crucible. I know that you don't play Wasteland and with all your removal, you're far less inclined to eternal-blocks with Factory, but still - isn't it worthy to try at least one copy?

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Looks like a pretty solid list with an exception. I don't understand the Edicts. You don't even run any creatures so why not just replace them with Innocent Blood and make room in the board?

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2cc. Rounds me out to 12 1cc spells and 12 2cc spells vs 14 1cc spells and 10 2cc spells if they were Innocent Bloods. Plus it's instant speed, which works better with my Predict's, plus is just randomly more useful, like killing enemy manlands.

Innocent Blood is great too, don't get me wrong, but Diabolic Edict makes more sense as a maindeck card. I bring in the 4 Innocent Bloods vs all sorts of decks though, including random things like Enchantress (Argothian bitch), Reanimator, Merfolks (1cc removal > Daze/Cursecatcher), to name a few.

Besides, those 2 spells are in a flex spot, which could just as easily be -2 Edict, +1 Counterspell +1 Vindicate, etc. That's just how I have it set up for right now.

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Part of the Landstill success was due to Crucible. I know that you don't play Wasteland and with all your removal, you're far less inclined to eternal-blocks with Factory, but still - isn't it worthy to try at least one copy?

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I stopped using Crucible in Landstill years ago. It's not needed to make consistent land drops and 3cc is a bit expensive for a weak card advantage engine. Recurring manlands is redundant, given that the deck's primary win conditions are it's Planeswalker's. It's quite possible that it could be a very strong sideboard card for some very selective matchups, particularly heavy LD decks... otherwise, no need.

Call me heretic, but it should run the white Wall of Blossons.

I saw another list of yours in the Walker thread and I really like it (the name sucks, though^^).

The change you definately want to make is:
Heath -> Marsh Flats

Aside from that I personally changes the B to R, mainly to run Firespout in the WoG slot, this helps the curve, loosing Innocent Blood sucks though. Since Reanimator makes less showings and Merfolks numbers increase it is reasonable meta wise.

The thing I most dislike is 4 Relic. 4 Slots is rather slim for the Dredge matchup, if you play Gravehate anyway you might as well run the 5th and seal the deal.

Aside from that the deck looks good and I think I will play my version sometimes (assuming I get the Jaces^^)

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Call me heretic, but it should run the white Wall of Blossons.

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Why though? I'm running Wrath of God, and a vanilla 0/4 doesn't block everything. What matchups would it improve, and what would you remove for it?

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I saw another list of yours in the Walker thread and I really like it (the name sucks, though^^).

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Well, I used Kaejur as the name of my Druid on World of Warcraft when I used to play that game. However, maybe the name that I name all of my Mages in video games would be more appropriate (chick Mages btw)? UWb Syrna Control instead?

A names just a name, what would you name it? I mean, something catchier would be better I'm sure, to draw more attention to the deck.

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The change you definately want to make is:
Heath -> Marsh Flats

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You know what's funny... I've been just retweaking this same deck on MWS for so long now that I never even thought to make that swap when the new fetches came out. Thanks for pointing that out to me, it's fixed now.

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Aside from that I personally changes the B to R, mainly to run Firespout in the WoG slot, this helps the curve, loosing Innocent Blood sucks though. Since Reanimator makes less showings and Merfolks numbers increase it is reasonable meta wise.

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The red splash is definitely a valid approach. To be honest though, I prefer Innocent Bloods for the Merfolk matchup because it's 1cc removal. All I need to do is survive long enough to where my WoG's aren't eating Dazes and Cursecatchers anymore and I'm good, and even Firespout can be tricky to pull off at 3cc without the additional support of other 1cc removal spells. The red splash definitely makes game 1 better vs Merfolk though, and then game 2 is better with REB vs Innocent Blood, definitely.

If Merfolk is expected to make a big showing, red is better, I agree.

Otherwise, black just handles randomness alot better.

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The thing I most dislike is 4 Relic. 4 Slots is rather slim for the Dredge matchup, if you play Gravehate anyway you might as well run the 5th and seal the deal.

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Well, I'm actually running more than 4 spots for Dredge, though.

I bring in Meddling Mage. I use Mage to try and shut down their sacrifice enablers, Cabal Therapy and Dread Returns. If they can't sacrifice guys, they can't get tokens. Plus, they'd be dumb to swing into a Mage with Bloodghast or Ichorid if they had Bridge's in the graveyard.

I bring in Engineered Explosives. EE @ 0 gives me a nice safe feeling that they can't go broken on me out of nowhere.

To top it all off, there is Relic of Progenitus. In all honesty, this may even be overkill for Ichorid, considering the fact that I'd be bringing in nearly my entire board for games 2 and 3. So you say slim, I say overkill.

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Aside from that the deck looks good and I think I will play my version sometimes (assuming I get the Jaces^^)

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Awesome, let me know how you do.

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On another note, I just want to say that the Predict's were something new that I was trying, it's the most recent addition to the deck, even more recent than Jace the Mindsculptor. After playing with the deck for a while, I have to say that Predict is just amazing.

I normally spin Top every turn once it's in play regardless. Once I hit 3 mana, I can stay untapped incase I need to cast Counterspell, and if I don't need to, I can end of turn spin Top, then cast Predict, putting the shittiest of the 3 cards into my graveyard, and then drawing the other 2. Next turn, I'm looking at 3 fresh cards with Top. The card quality + card advantage generated from Top + Predict is just nuts.

I've also found that blind Counterbalance flips on my end, when they aren't a card I'd want to draw, enable my Predict's also. So I actually have 4 Brainstorm, 4 Top, 4 Counterbalance, and 2 Jace to enable the Predict's. I've been playing against alot of decks lately that have been using Enlightened Tutor (Thopter) or Mystical Tutor (Reanimator, ANT) that not only enable Predict to be a draw 2, but also make Predict a disruption spell.

In light of this, I've decided to test out a list running 4 Predict's. I was very hesistant to try this at first, originally opting for a 2/2 split of Predict/Standstill when I first started testing Predict. Then, I moved to 3 Predict's and no Standstill's, because Predict performed very well in my testing and Standstill had been performing very bad for me for quite a while. 3 was a good number, and I figured 4 would cause me to have hands where I had too many Predict's and no ways to make them draw 2's, essentially rendering them a dead card. Now, I'm thinking 4 would actually be the best number to run. Testing will ensue, and then I'll post my findings.

For now, this is the list I'll be doing that testing with:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
3 [U] Tundra
1 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
4 [IN] Island (2)
2 [P3] Plains (2)
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)

// Spells
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Predict
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [ST] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [BRB] Wrath of God
2 [JGC] Vindicate

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [OD] Innocent Blood
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus

The 4th Counterspell might become a singleton Diabolic Edict, I'm not quite sure yet. The more important part, for me, is determing the correct number of Predict's (3 or 4).

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On an unrelated note... no love for this deck? It's barely gotten any views, and so little replies... I think I maybe if I PM a mod to get the thread title changed, it would help some?

how about
-1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
-1 [CS] Counterbalance

+2 Enlightened Tutor

It fetches Top, Counterbalance and after SB EE and relic

Since we played a match last night. You with this thing and me with UR Dreadstill+Lavamangs I have some opinions.

1. It's landstill I suppose, as much as it can be w/o standstill.
2. You were at a disadvantage under standstill without wastelands. I really wouldn't worry about dreadstill but Merfolk can be a problem. If you don't have a good Merfolk matchup then I'm not terribly interested because traditionally landstill builds have struggled vs. Tendrils.
3. Planeswalkers are nutberger good. I can't believe how much chaos you created with them.
4. Countertop's blind flips were as you stated sub optimal. With a top and fetches you get a lot more milage and it really shines in this deck as you really don't have much to play for a million turns anyway.
5. Predict is better than I thought because it also works on an opponents blindflipped CB as long as they don't have a CMC 2 on top. What is the right number is a great question but you can do some really cool things, even more so if you used a little discard in your list. They hide the goodies with bs and then you take an educated guess what they hid on top with the predict, Ouch! In fact wether this deck becomes successful or not I think a SCD should be started on predict because it may be nuts in this meta as it can not only produce CA, it can disrupt tutors (mystical, enlightened) brainstorm, and ponder. (especially in response to discard), feed thresh/tarmogoyf and graveyard strategies in general. Oh, and it also knocks tops off the top when the opponent uses it to draw an extra card...

Since Counter-Top is looking to be too random to rely upon, maybe chalice of the void would be better to "block-out" spells of cc 0, 1, or 2. Just think: the earliest you can get counter-top on line (with mana to spare to spin the top) would be turn 3. By then you could have chalices locking down cc 0 and 1, and next turn could be set at cc 2.
The obvious down side would be you'd have to cut alot (stp, brainstorm, innocent blood, ect.) but it might still be worth considering if you can find suitable replacements

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Oh, and it also knocks tops off the top when the opponent uses it to draw an extra card...

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Yea, that's pretty awesome.

It also helps you get rid of multiple Top's of your own if you don't have the fetchland to shuffle it away. Cast both Top's, tap one to draw a card, cast Predict naming Top (targetting self). Voila, you basically just got a draw 3 from Predict.

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2. You were at a disadvantage under standstill without wastelands. I really wouldn't worry about dreadstill but Merfolk can be a problem. If you don't have a good Merfolk matchup then I'm not terribly interested because traditionally landstill builds have struggled vs. Tendrils.

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Yes, which is why I've been unsatisfied with Standstill for a while and switched to Predict. Standstill is less scary from Merfolk because they don't run as much cantrips as Dreadstill to see it as often, but yes, Standstill is still a bomb for them. The Merfolk matchup is only bad when I don't draw enough removal to keep the board clean enough to hit the lategame (meaning I take 20+ points of damage before I can hit 5+ land drops). Otherwise, they are an aggro strategy that is forced to overcommit against a control deck that runs Wrath of God.

Current sideboard plan for Merfolk:

-2 Counterspell/Counterbalance
-2 Vindicate
+2 Innocent Blood
+2 Engineered Explosives

The extra 1cc spot removal is easier to resolve and helps get me to the lategame, where I am capable of casting the devastating Wrath of God.

Engineered Explosives can blow up Vials and is much easier to cast than Vindicate. It's also another board sweeper against them, and any and all ways for me to kill 2 or more of their guys with a single card (card advantage) is the key to winning that matchup.

In all honesty, I've done alot to improve this matchup vs classic Landstill builds, primarly by making my draw engine functional vs them (dropping Standstill for Predict). Spell Snare may be stronger than Counterbalance vs them since it's less expensive and stops turn 2 Standstill's, but I've still gotten great mileage out of it vs them, particularly when they don't have Vial, but it still helps me shut down Standstill, which is the most important card to counter.

If Merfolk is expected to make a big showing at a particular event, I can just as easily drop the black splash for a red splash. Grim Lavamancer's out of the sideboard completely shut Merfolk down, and Firespout is easier to resolve than Wrath of God.

Oh, and I actually played ANT right after I played you, and crushed him in 4 games 2-0 and 2-0 (2 preboard games, 2 postboard games). I did get rather lucky, landing turn 2 CounterTop in 2 of the games, and drawing relevant cards in all of the games (countermagic). I feel very favored going against them preboard, what with Predict vs Mystical, CounterTop, Counterspell, and Force of Will. Postboard, after I bring in Meddling Mage, it just feels like my whole deck is aimed to beat them. He felt that way too, and when I apologized to him for him running into such a bad matchup, he laughed and said yea but your deck folds to Zoo.

So I made him load up Zoo. We went 1-1, and during game 3, when I was about to gain control over the gamestate finally (down to 7 life), I got a Player Lost. Not sure if it was him intentionally leaving or not, but I really wanted to play game 3 out.

Current sideboard plan vs ANT:

-3 Wrath of God
-1 Vindicate
+4 Meddling Mage

At this point, if you expect them to bring in Xantid Swarm or Dark Confidant, leave the Swords in the deck. I always leave Swords in for game 2 just incase. If you did lose game 1 but win game 2, and it goes to game 3, and you didn't see Xantid or Confidant...

You can drop StP for Relic. It rarely has a use as graveyard hate (removes Thresh for Cabal Ritual, they probably sided out IGG), but the draw a card aspect is more relevant than StP and they are still a 1cc spell for the Counterbalance curve.

The thing I love most about Counterbalance in this matchup is that it's rather strong even with blindflipping, since I run 23 lands, and 0cc is a great foil to ANT.

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3. Planeswalkers are nutberger good. I can't believe how much chaos you created with them.

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Yea, both Elspeth and Jace 2.0 are very strong cards and I don't think people realize just how powerful they are when they discount control decks as viable in the metagame. The 2/2 split is perfect.

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4. Countertop's blind flips were as you stated sub optimal. With a top and fetches you get a lot more milage and it really shines in this deck as you really don't have much to play for a million turns anyway.

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Yes, this is the case. Don't get me wrong, I've had blind flips work for me before to good effect, but most of the time, it's nothing reliable. My deck is more forgiving of not getting use out of Counterbalance right away, since I have other control spells to manage the gamestate until I finally get something to make Counterbalance useful. I have plenty of time, being a control deck, to finally get CounterTop assembled. Counterbalance turns topdecked Brainstorm's into Counterspells, and again... every card I do counter with Counterbalance is generating card advantage, which is how control decks tend to win most games.

Difference is, I'm generating a higher quality of card advantage with Counterbalance than a normal draw spell... if I cast Fact or Fiction, I may not get anything relevant. If I counter stuff with Counterbalance, I stop a relevant spell and they waste X amount of mana in the process, so in essence I'm gaining a tempo advantage too, where most draw spells (Predict included) tend to take away tempo at the expense of card advantage.

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5. Predict is better than I thought because it also works on an opponents blindflipped CB as long as they don't have a CMC 2 on top. What is the right number is a great question but you can do some really cool things, even more so if you used a little discard in your list. They hide the goodies with bs and then you take an educated guess what they hid on top with the predict, Ouch! In fact wether this deck becomes successful or not I think a SCD should be started on predict because it may be nuts in this meta as it can not only produce CA, it can disrupt tutors (mystical, enlightened) brainstorm, and ponder. (especially in response to discard), feed thresh/tarmogoyf and graveyard strategies in general.

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Predict has been nothing short of amazing for me since I began testing it several weeks ago. It has a large amount of synergy with the rest of the deck, regardless of the metagame, so they are mainstays regardless.

However, you are right, and the Predict's have been doubling over as disruption in quite a few matchups.

The only reason this deck won't get successful is because no one is going to play it, or even find out about it. Otherwise, this deck is a complete animal.

I disagree. I think that people are starting to look at control decks again, as evidenced by some decks at some recent big Legacy tournaments. In fact, I've also been constructing a control deck using some similar card choices, but taking a completely different philosophy than most. I also know some other people looking at control decks. Regardless, I think that people are seeing the power of the new planeswalkers, namely Jace and Elspeth, as well as the prevalence of some really good and cheap answers, especially innocent blood which is a good foil to reanimator.

I am glad to see that you are still working on your CB-Top Landstill build Hanni. I always felt like it was your signature deck and your strongest addition to the format. So many card choices feel so right here - 2/2 Jace/Els split is great. I wonder about Predict but I don't have that much experience using it, I'll give it a whirl.

Also, I disagree that people aren't noticing this style of deck. One of my friends even told me that he's heard the name JaceStill used to describe it, and talked to some Pro's who think it's the next big thing in a format full of Zoo.

Overall I think the list is strong, but a few personal suggestions (which you might hate):

(1) No real reason not to run a WoG/DoJ split. Yes, it might never matter, but if it wins you even one single game, it's done the job.

(2) Why not run either Cunning Wish or Enlightened Tutor? Yes they can be slow, but they can also improve M/U's game 1. It also allows you diversify your board a bit. For example:

-1 WoG
-1 Sensei Top
-1 CB
+ 2 Enlightened tutor
+ 1 EE

Then the board could look something like this:

1 Humility
3 Ethersworn Cannonist (far superior to MM against ANT when using tutor)
2 relic of Prog.
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon (permanent GY solution, GG if they can't remove it quickly)
2 Engineered Plague
1 EE
1 CB/Crucible (not sure of this slot, but something to make control mirrors easier)
3 Innocent Blood

EDIT: Predict is pretty amazing. 2 cards for 1U is damn impressive. Using it to clear dead draws or give dead draws to the opponent is very strong in a deck like this. I love the synergy with Jace.

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I am glad to see that you are still working on your CB-Top Landstill build Hanni. I always felt like it was your signature deck and your strongest addition to the format.

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Well, U/W/b Fish was my signature deck, but that was about 3 years ago.

People may be more accepting to control as the days pass, but I can still go back and read posts all over The Source from not too long ago where it's assumed that control decks are dead in the format.

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(1) No real reason not to run a WoG/DoJ split. Yes, it might never matter, but if it wins you even one single game, it's done the job.

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I used to run DoJ for a very long time. The card just doesn't cut it anymore, it's power level is way too far behind the rest of the format.

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(2) Why not run either Cunning Wish or Enlightened Tutor? Yes they can be slow, but they can also improve M/U's game 1. It also allows you diversify your board a bit. For example:

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Cunning Wish is way too slow, costing 3 mana for a tutor is totally unecessary. The deck already has all the tools it needs to answer nearly everything in the maindeck.

Enlightened Tutor is very interesting, since it has synergy with Counterbalance. However, at the point where I'd run a card disadvantage tutor, I'd probably run Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek as targets for it, and at that point, the deck becomes a totally different deck.

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EDIT: Predict is pretty amazing. 2 cards for 1U is pretty damn impressive. Using it to clear dead draws or give dead draws to the opponent is very strong in a deck like this. I love the synergy with Jace.

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I was skeptical at first myself when I was searching for a replacement draw spell for Standstill. However, the more and more I test the card, the more amazing I keep finding it. I wonder how long it takes before the card starts seeing widespread play in alot of decks. It's really that good.

Top + Predict is such a powerful draw engine.

Haha... I got myself in trouble with abbreviations.

DoJ = Day of Judgement.

I agree that Decree is far too slow now. It must go if Landstill is to survive, Planeswalkers fill this role much better. I still think that E. Tutor could be very helpful to this deck without running Thopter combo... Although Thopter isn't a bad way to take the deck IMO, and doesn't change it that radically.

This is definately very interesting.
I don't want to play CB, and I don't have Jace, but do you think Predict could fit in a normal U/W/b Landstill list (I do run 3 tops, 4 brainstorm) or isn't it worth it?

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This is definately very interesting.
I don't want to play CB, and I don't have Jace, but do you think Predict could fit in a normal U/W/b Landstill list (I do run 3 tops, 4 brainstorm) or isn't it worth it?

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Yes. I'd recommend 4 Top's, though.

Predict won't be quite as effective for you as it is for me, because other cards in my deck make it functional too (Counterbalance, Jace), but it will still be good for you. Best way to find out is to try it for yourself and see if you think it works.

Cool deck, bro. But what does" Kaejur" mean? :confused:

Quote:

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Kaejur

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It's just a made up name. The deck name probably needs renamed to something more people understand.

I'm up for suggestions on a finding a good name for the deck. Your not the first to question the name.

UWB Predictable Control works..