UW Sanctuary (Helm/RiP combo)

Influenced by this article over as SCG, I began looking into this combo.

How it works:

With Rest in Peace in play, no card can hit the graveyard. With Helm of Obedience, the process repeats until X cards hit the graveyard. So, when you use the Helm, seeing as the "card in graveyard" condition is not met, the process repeats to exile your opponent's library.

Decklist:

Provided here is a basic decklist for the concept:

Lands:

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Plains
4 Island
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

Combo:

4 Rest in Peace
4 Helm of Obedience

Spells:

4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Energy Field
4 Force of Will
2 Remand
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Gilded Light
4 Ponder
4 meta slot

SB:

4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Flusterstorm
4 Pithing Needle

Thoughts and critiques are, as always, appreciated.

NB: I'm not sure if Daze would be a batter card for the deck, with such a low curve. I know that's it's almost cold to a Chalice@1 main, and I'm not sure what to do about that.

With the development of this deck I just want to make a reminder saying that Energy Field doesn't protect you from "lose life" spells like Tendrils of Agony. So I think the Storm matchup should be kept in mind as well or the possible Tendrils coming in from the board of Omniscience. So we should try to see if the deck can find and execute its combo as fast as said decks, or if it has adequate protection against such decks.

Web of Inertia becomes interesting with Rest in Peace in play.

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gkraigher

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

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Read Planar Void. Learn Magic the Gathering. Then get back to us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gkraigher

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

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Planar Void is triggered: Leyline is a replacement effect. The Wheel is an alternative to assist with Energy Field, and you can enchant yourself so that you never get milled, due to the Replacement Effect rules, so that you can still have no damage taken.

I do, however, agree that it's probably not correct. I was looking at Solitary Confinement or Greater Auramancy as possibilities in that slot.

Head Planar Void isn't a replacement effect like RIP and Leyline... anyway...

I don't think running 4 Helm's is correct when you can have access to them with enlightened tutor. I was thinking of more of a control shell like this:


4 enlightened tutor
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Energy Field
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Vedalken Shackles
4 Force of Will
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ancestral Vision


Obviously not sure on ALL of those (may want more Swords main, and Detention Sphere or Supreme Verdict in the board) - but seems like you can stall enough to get energy field down, RIP, and tutor for helm. Having 4 Helms just takes up SO much space when you can easily tutor for it.

My take anyway.

Why wouldn't this deck play Counterbalance? It's already playing with Etutor and could easily play Top for more filtering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koby

Why wouldn't this deck play Counterbalance? It's already playing with Etutor and could easily play Top for more filtering.

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One of the other lists I had jotted down ran 1 CB main, along with 3 tops. Probably depends on how insane Abrupt Decay becomes as to whether it is in the main, or the sideboard since it is SO good in some matchups

Quote:

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Originally Posted by .dk

One of the other lists I had jotted down ran 1 CB main, along with 3 tops. Probably depends on how insane Abrupt Decay becomes as to whether it is in the main, or the sideboard since it is SO good in some matchups

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Abrupt Decay is strong, no doubt. But its strict color requirement will limit its play to AT MOST 15% of the decks in Legacy. CB/top is still a solid lock against RUG and Burn and Combo etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koby

Abrupt Decay is strong, no doubt. But its strict color requirement will limit its play to AT MOST 15% of the decks in Legacy. CB/top is still a solid lock against RUG and Burn and Combo etc.

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Seems reasonable, yeah. Maybe in my list, cut the Supreme Verdicts for 1 more Swords and 1 Counterbalance. Although that list might be a little heavy on 2 drops for a Counterbalance curve. Will have to get testing, I suppose...

Using my current version of :ug: enchatress I have created an enchantress version of a RiP / Helm deck here. I felt the enchantress approach was different enough to warrant it's own thread in lieu of derailing this one. Stop over if you care.

For what it's worth, I would definitely run O-Ring/Detention Sphere as E-Tutor target, probably even an EE. Stuff like Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker and Gaddock Teeg ruin you.

That said, what about alternate win conditions? Either Jace or something else.

Why would this deck run remand over spell peirce?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gkraigher

Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard is not correct.

It should be leyline of the void. This deck could have existed for years already. If you played Blue/Black with Planar Void instead of Rest in Peace. That starcity article looks like one that is designed to sell cards for them.

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Yeah, clearly I only wrote that article because the thing I care most about is how to sell cards for SCG. They also send me weekly updates of cards they don't manage to sell as many of as they'd like to just so I write something that'll make people buy those.

As to more enjoyable topics:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koby

Why wouldn't this deck play Counterbalance? It's already playing with Etutor and could easily play Top for more filtering.

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Check my list from the article linked above :p

@K-Run: I think Energy Field is probably enough and much better to draw than Web of Inertia when you don't yet have a RIP (you can still buy multiple turns with it, especially if you're only Fetching basics so they can't Wasteland you). It also opens you up to dieing to the RIP-trigger getting Stifled.

@Darkenslight: Your list is an interesting approach for a more combo-focused version. Not sure if going for a fast kill is worth it, though, given that E-Field/RIP already stops most aggressive decks dead and that you'll just always be slower than other combo-decks just because helm costs five.
Your meta-slots should always include a Needle, an ORing/Detention Sphere and a Humility imo. Needle and Humility will allow you to lock out the few probable MD answers like Pridemage, EE and Deed (often one of these is the only answer a lot of decks have to Field/RIP in the MD). ORing is just necessary to deal with Planeswalkers and Show and Tell, I think, and one of the better outs to Teeg (which in your current list is just GG as long as your opponent has more cards in his deck than you do).

Gilded Light seems pointless in your list (why not run more countermagic?) and Remand is questionable, one of the 1-cost counters or even Daze should just be better.

@.dk: Not sure what you'd need Verdict for. If you lock them, you don't need a Wrath and Verdict doesn't even work as an out for Teeg. Porphyry Nodes seems like it would be good in this deck, though. Eats up whatever is hanging around in front of the EField in case they draw an out and will deal with Teeg eventually so you can Helm them.

@Barook: I agree that this needs some form of alternate wincon, though Jace has been surprisingly bad so far (other than when I was hiding behind Ensnaring Bridge). I've actually started to consider a singleton Luminarch Ascension - good against control, tutorable, drops through Teeg and combos with EField even before you have a RIP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mon,Goblin Chief

@.dk: Not sure what you'd need Verdict for. If you lock them, you don't need a Wrath and Verdict doesn't even work as an out for Teeg. Porphyry Nodes seems like it would be good in this deck, though. Eats up whatever is hanging around in front of the EField in case they draw an out and will deal with Teeg eventually so you can Helm them.

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Yeah, you're absolutely right. Those 2 Verdicts should probably be 1 Counterbalance and 1 Swords. I'm not sure Porphyry Nodes is needed maindeck if you are running Shackles, though. You can easily steal Teeg and swing it into their creatures as well. Seems like potentially a good sideboard option against SnT decks, however, since E-field doesn't get around Annhilator triggers.

I've been playing this list to some success:

// Lands
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [UNH] Island
4 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Spells
3 [RTR] Rest in Peace
1 [TE] Humility
2 [AL] Helm of Obedience
2 [US] Energy Field
1 [M10] Pithing Needle
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
4 [COM] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RTR] Detention Sphere

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Removal
SB: 1 [MM] Energy Flux
SB: 4 [COM] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [RTR] Detention Sphere
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity

I'm definitely thinking of making tweaks, as it's quite soft to Teeg + MOM. (Maybe Porphyry Nodes?) It's phenomenal against graveyard decks, so I see no need for LotV. It's also a killer against Show and Tell since you can tutor for detention spheres. Energy Field also stops a lot of aggro decks cold. This deck definitely has potential, but does require a fair bit of work as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mon,Goblin Chief

@Darkenslight: Your list is an interesting approach for a more combo-focused version. Not sure if going for a fast kill is worth it, though, given that E-Field/RIP already stops most aggressive decks dead and that you'll just always be slower than other combo-decks just because helm costs five.
Your meta-slots should always include a Needle, an ORing/Detention Sphere and a Humility imo. Needle and Humility will allow you to lock out the few probable MD answers like Pridemage, EE and Deed (often one of these is the only answer a lot of decks have to Field/RIP in the MD). ORing is just necessary to deal with Planeswalkers and Show and Tell, I think, and one of the better outs to Teeg (which in your current list is just GG as long as your opponent has more cards in his deck than you do).

Gilded Light seems pointless in your list (why not run more countermagic?) and Remand is questionable, one of the 1-cost counters or even Daze should just be better.

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Hence why I wasn't 100% on the list, and the fact that it was a basic list: The Remands could easily become Orings or Journey to Nowhere.

The main reason for Remands (and I was willing to be overruled on this) was because you're more interested in the delaying aspect of Remand than the one-turn setback that Daze involves. In my build, it's pretty important to make your land drops. In an Enchantress shell, it's somewhat less important, as you have access to cards like [cards]Utopia Sprawl[/card]. I was looking at the possibility of the new Keyrunes as a potential ramp/creature hybrid.

The Gilded lights are there mostly for the countering of Tendrils, which is why I recommended Confinement as a SB slot. Also, the Lights aren't completely dead in other matchups: for example, most people are playing discard (from Dredge to BUG Delver to Nic Fit). The cycling allows me to pitch it for another card in a pinch, which can occasionally be relevant.

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