[Deck] UWR Delver

Patriot


http://i50.tinypic.com/2llytm9.jpg

What is Patriot?

Patriot or UWR Delver is a tempo-based that used many of the best spells in Legacy, to create a very flexible and adaptable deck. One the one side it's a Tempo deck with Delver of Secrets, Daze, Wasteland and Spell Pierce while it has elements that are more controlish than everything else, such as Stoneforge Mystic into Batterskull, True-Name Nemesis and Swords to Plowshares.

This dual-nature makes this deck very adaptable to various game-situations, yet sacrifaces the very own nature of both strategy-branches, should they be needed by themselves in a certain match-up. It basically gives up superiority in certain MUs to achieve a wide ranging number of even MUs, all across the MU.

How did it start?

Patriot, or UWR Delver, or 'Murica or whatever it was/is called started off as a pure tempodeck, utilizing the real tempopackage of Wasteland, Daze and Stifle - alongside quick one-drops like Delver of Secrets and outstandingly fast but yet fragile cards like Geist of Saint Traft. If you're interested ou can read this article by Bryant Cook: http://jupitergames.info/articles/20...-nelc-02022013

The list below is by Dustin Taylor: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...ion=Show+Decks


4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique


1 Island
3 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland


4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Ponder


2 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Rest in Peace
1 Disenchant
1 Force of Will
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique


Okay, enough history lesson for now. With the print of True-Name Nemesis this deck became what it is. A blue-white-red hybrid, that was popularized by Owen Turtenwalds victory at GP Washington DC. http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12214&iddeck=89514

1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Pierce
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Arid Mesa
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 4 Meddling Mage
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 True-Name Nemesis
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine

So now they added Stoneforge Mystic and True-Name Nemesis to the deck which resulted in the deck withdrawing from the realms of Tempo, while intruding the lands of Control more and more - stopping somewhere in between. True-Name Nemesis gave the deck a very potent lategame that could either be sent on defense duties or provide an unstoppable attacking force. If one should able to equip Nemesis with any of the equipments is generally game over some way or another.

During this time frame Patriot was the deck #1, publics new enemy, which lead to the meta as a whole being prepared for Patriot. Nemesis wasn't the I-Win button anymore as more and more Lilianas of the Veil showed up, paired with cards like Golgari Charm, Marsh Causualities or Holy Light. As soon as the meta had adapted to Patriot it fell from place #1, but still remains a force in the top-tier metagame of todays Legacy.

Here is a collection of useful links:

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...in-uwr-delver/

http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...-dc-gp-dc-1st/

http://www.channelfireball.com/video...cy-uwr-delver/

http://www.channelfireball.com/video...-uwr-delver-2/

http://www.channelfireball.com/video...cy-uwr-delver/

Greetings

I've seen lists running 3x Force of Will, and obviously that isn't due to a low blue card count, which I'm curious of. Do people just not want the card disadvantage with so much Black discard running rampant or is it because they feel if something does resolve, they can deal with it via Bolt/StP/Grim? I'm slightly confused why a tempo deck would want access to less free spells. Force of Will is an auto 4-of for me in any deck running enough blue to support it. I understand in Esper Blade (running a low blue count + 1cc discard to supplement) that you'd get away with 3, but not in a tempo deck where we're trying to develop our board in the early stages.

I'm interested in the deck as well. One of my favorite color combination, and seems to have lot of anwsers against the field (many counters and removal). One thing I noticed, it is too threat-light IMO. Atm I'm trying Stoneforge package, basicly cutting Stifles. What are your oppinions on that? I understand Stifle is great (it always is), but I think this deck has slightly different approach then RUG for example. It is more mana intensive and tends to tap out more often (Geist, Lavamancer...). Also, STPs are somewhat anti-tempo (still much better then PtE), so I like this deck to be a bit more midrange. That way, it has more different angles of attack. Currently testing:

4 Delver
4 Stoneforge
3 Lavamancer
3 Geist

4 FoW
4 Daze
4 Bolt
4 Swords
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Jace (random, for lategame)

19 lands, including 1 Island, 1 Karakas and 4 Wastelands.

Sideboard would probably consist of some number of RiPs, REBs, Sulfur Elementals and other usual stuff. I'd really like to try Meddling Mages (mostly vs combo) and some Diverts (Jund?)

@Force of Will - count:
I agree, that a tempolist should start off with 4 Force of Will most of the time. Though, if you look at Dustins list, I believe the lack of the 4th copy derives from a lack of designing space. You don't really want to cut any other card, Ponder is probably at an all time low, with 3(2 sounds too suicidial to me, tbh), all the other cards are on the lowest level, if you ask me. Though I could see the option to cut a removal or something for the 4th Force, if your meta somehow warrants it, but in any way - even with 3 Force of Will our combo-MU is good. And yes, I know you havn't been referring to combo, but to tempo in general.

@Stoneforge Mystic:
I've been playing this one a few weeks earlier (before Bryant Cook published his article), and moved the card to the sideboard after I read the article, and now I've dismissed the Mystic alltogether. Why? Well, sometimes a so called "Aggro-Mystic" wins games, Stoneblade players will know what this means. In reverse, this does not mean, that an aggressive Mystic is good, most of the time. It actually just is in very rare occasions. This leads to playing more lands(cause either Mystic or Skull be dealt with, for sure), jaces, cutting the tempoelements and in the end to just playing UWr Stoneblade, which is a valid deck in any way. But this is not, what we are talking about here.

Greetings

I'd cut a Pierce before a FoW, but that's just me, especially if you're playing 4 Brainstorm + 3 Ponder for digging. Anyway, I think the numbers can flux and the card choices are pretty solid at this point. It really boils down to more players playing it and seeing what results are put up. The 4th place SCG Edison finish is promising.

Probably it really just boils down to personal preference, concerning the 4th Force / 3rd cc1 Counter - but I'd really prefer Spell Pierce right now, there are just too many targets you want to counter, while not 1-2ing yourself.

I was testing Dustins list since Monday, 4h per day and I gotta admit I am unhappy with the 1of Vendilion Clique, I always feel like playing 2 was the better way, or playing none. What are your guys thoughts in Vendilion Clique? It is very important, as a cc3 flash creature, with great utility in control/combo-MUs, but very often it is just a chumpblocker, that doesn't bash for as much as Geist does, when we are on the beatdown...

Greetings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

Probably it really just boils down to personal preference, concerning the 4th Force / 3rd cc1 Counter - but I'd really prefer Spell Pierce right now, there are just too many targets you want to counter, while not 1-2ing yourself.

I was testing Dustins list since Monday, 4h per day and I gotta admit I am unhappy with the 1of Vendilion Clique, I always feel like playing 2 was the better way, or playing none. What are your guys thoughts in Vendilion Clique? It is very important, as a cc3 flash creature, with great utility in control/combo-MUs, but very often it is just a chumpblocker, that doesn't bash for as much as Geist does, when we are on the beatdown...

Greetings

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MD
-1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Geist of Saint Traft

SB
-1 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Vendilion Clique

simple like that. i would try like this, maybe without the stifles like the Jupiter article writer said that this is the card with lesser value in MD in various matchups, then it should be worth the cut for the 4th force and other spells.

Played a bunch of games against Jund (non PFire build) and did well. Grim Lavamancer is by far the MVP versus Jund, followed closely by Geist of Saint Traft. I can't believe how insane an active Lavamancer is and my opponent was resorting to using his dead Abrupt Decays on the Geist angel token. I lost a few games to some tough draws (that's my own fault for only playing 2 Ponder), but based off my testing, albeit limited, I was very pleased with how well UWR Delver does against Jund. I take back what I said about Stifle, omg that card is soooo live; Stifling the Cascade trigger, then pinging his BBE with my Lavamancer was the highlight of my night.

Played with 2 Misdirection in the SB and brought both in, thinking that I could do some tricky stuff with his REBs, Abrupt Decays, Hymns, etc... god that card was awful. Everytime I drew it and had the ability to cast it, I wanted it to be ANYTHING else, a Jace, a Clique, a Venser, a Spell Pierce, ANYTHING. Those are def getting cut as it was mostly worthless in the matchup I thought it would have the most value.

EDIT: Regarding Clique, he was 50/50 for me. At times he was great, others he was so-so and wished he was another Geist. I often find myself swinging with Geist into certain his death, let him die, then play another Geist post-combat; I just need an angel token to get there once or twice, then Grim Lavamancer + Bolt does the rest most games. 3x Geist allows me to do this, but I'm flirting with 4x Geist just because I want him almost everytime on turn 3 and multiples can be used as FoW food or in the common combat situation I decribed. Thoughts on going with a 4 Delver, 4 Lavamancer, 4 Geist creature base? Have others been finding Clique to be better than the 4th Geist?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

What I can say for now(feel free to comment on any single point) are those points:

1) UWR Delver deck struggles to beat shrouded creatures like Nimble Mongoose --> Postboard 3-4 Rest in Peace should take care of that.
2) UWR Delver beats most combodecks easily.
3) UWR Delver has the best answer, to big creatures, of all tempodecks, so Swords to Plowshares is worth the antisynergy.
4) UWR Delver plays some anti-synergetic spells, like Swords to Plowshares + Delver/Bolt/Beatdown in general, though the upsides might weigh more.
5) UWR Delver dodges most of the graveyard, only using it for Grim Lavamancer, making it persistent to Deathrite Shamans splashdamage.

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1) Rest in Peace is nice in the sb with this list, as it wrecks most graveyard-based strategies. Between that and Tormod's Crypt, there shouldn't be much issue. In Modern, we frequently run Relic of Progenitus in an attempt to play around anti-synergy with our 3-4 MD Snapcaster Mage.

3)&4) Regarding the antisynergy of Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile may be a less anti-synergistic option. It takes away some of the tempo you've had going, but you do have board control. With the Stifle/Wasteland package, this shouldn't be THAT big of a deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

I was testing Dustins list since Monday, 4h per day and I gotta admit I am unhappy with the 1of Vendilion Clique, I always feel like playing 2 was the better way, or playing none. What are your guys thoughts in Vendilion Clique? It is very important, as a cc3 flash creature, with great utility in control/combo-MUs, but very often it is just a chumpblocker, that doesn't bash for as much as Geist does, when we are on the beatdown...

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In Modern it's usually played as a 2-of, and I agree - depending on your metagame, either play 2-of or relegate it to the sideboard.

In a meta full of DRS and where you're trying to keep your opponent off of 4 mana as long as possible, Path to Exile isn't the best option. I'd gladly have my opponent gain some life and be stuck on 2-3 mana in most cases. Wasteland, Spell Pierce, Stifle, and Daze all become much, much worse if you're Pathing your opponent's blockers or their 1st turn DRS, etc.

While Swords to Plowshares provides some antisynergie, Path to Exile provides MASSIVE antisynergie. It's just so territerribad, it screws with all of our gameplan. Giving them a few life means we have to swing a little more often, while our opponent is low on lands and has to play in our taxing counters, but if we give him lands, he can play Swords to Plowshares Pierce+Dazeproof or things of the like... This is not Modern, I don't think that Path to Exile is playable at all in this deck, at maximum in the side, but I think we got better options there too.

Is anyone else trying to push this deck? What is your current list? Anything special?

Greetings

My Jund opponent saw Dustin playing UWR Delver on the SCG Edison stream, but didn't get to "see" it as Dustin's opponent was combo iirc, and he was impressed at how dominant UWR Delver was over his Jund deck. The guy is a good player too, so it made me hopeful that this will catch on. I'm going to test extensively versus Esperblade next week, but I feel good about the matchup as Grim Lavamancer > all their creatures and they don't have a good maindeck out to Geist other than a 1-of Supreme Verdict.

Current list:

1 Vendilion Clique
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Grim Lavamancer

2 Ponder

2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

1 Island
3 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland

Sideboard is currently in flux, but that's my list. I'm debating about shaving a card here or there to make room for additional Ponder and/or Spell Pierce, but it ran pretty well last night, so I think I may just keep it as is for now.

I also played UW Tempo (with Stoneforge) - so the UWR Tempo tech is a nice meta call.

Red offers some good Spells (Lavamancer, Bolt, Red Blast) so i would test this one:

3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Snapcaster Mage

2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

1 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Meddling Mage
2 Jötun Grunt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
2 Spell Pierce
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Detention Sphere

This Deck has to work out the creature slots, i find 3 Geist of Saint Traft feels right, besides Delver and Lavamancer, what is the next real creature? (without a green gofy or a black tombstalker)

Vendilion Clique
Snapcaster
Jötun Grunt
Figure of Destiny
Stoneforge (which tends to a midrange option)

or Playset
Geist of Saint Traft
Grim Lavamancer

I wouldn´t go under 12 Creatures (similiar to RUG), with Abrupt Decay all around, your creatures (besides Geist) will die - a single Delver won´t be enough against Jund etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

In a meta full of DRS and where you're trying to keep your opponent off of 4 mana as long as possible, Path to Exile isn't the best option. I'd gladly have my opponent gain some life and be stuck on 2-3 mana in most cases. Wasteland, Spell Pierce, Stifle, and Daze all become much, much worse if you're Pathing your opponent's blockers or their 1st turn DRS, etc.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

While Swords to Plowshares provides some antisynergie, Path to Exile provides MASSIVE antisynergie. It's just so territerribad, it screws with all of our gameplan. Giving them a few life means we have to swing a little more often, while our opponent is low on lands and has to play in our taxing counters, but if we give him lands, he can play Swords to Plowshares Pierce+Dazeproof or things of the like... This is not Modern, I don't think that Path to Exile is playable at all in this deck, at maximum in the side, but I think we got better options there too.

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Well, I'd rather burn a DRS or other threat rather than StP or Path any day of the week. When I wrote that, I had late game with an opponent having an active Goyf or Tombstalker in mind; StP would set us back at least a turn, whereas Path could allow us to win. Early on, yeah I agree that Path probably isn't playable.

This discussion is pretty helpful, though - I'm currently trying to make the transition from Modern to Legacy, and I mainly play tempo-based strategies in the form of UR Delver and UWR Delver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MD.Ghost

This Deck has to work out the creature slots, i find 3 Geist of Saint Traft feels right, besides Delver and Lavamancer, what is the next real creature? (without a green gofy or a black tombstalker)

Vendilion Clique
Snapcaster
Jötun Grunt
Figure of Destiny
Stoneforge (which tends to a midrange option)

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Snapcaster Mage is definitely a good option, as is Vendilion Clique. Figure of Destiny is a nice option to test out to establish board presence. Having free counters plus a manabase that can grow him up to 4/4 with ease makes me want to test him out at least.

You want to save your Bolts as long as possible as you often can win games by getting in a Bolt or two to the dome instead of burning it on a creature. Use those StPs whenever you can, then move onto using burn. And I personally think we should focus on maximizing the early game (turn 1-3) as opposed to gameplanning for the late game where the deck does significantly worse.

Hello all, I thought I would give my 2 cents. I am very good friends with Dustin and when it comes to events he gives me modern and standard lists and I'm the legacy guy. Earlier last week I asked him what he wanted to play and he said not to ask him anymore and that I'm the legacy guy and its my job to tell him what to play. lol Well when I saw Paulo's top 8 list from Jupiter it reminded me of a deck I had success with in the past.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=44600

I stopped playing this deck because nimble mongoose was a beating, but now rug is on the decline. I knew combo was on the rise due to its jund and also being able to beat these bug decks not even running fow, so thats what made me decide on playing uwr since it has a good combo matchup. We were stranded in CT and awake from 7am til we left at 6pm on Sat so we got a lot of games in to say the least. Comparing our lists to Paulos (or Bryants, same list) we add the island like Bryant suggested for the plateau. Dustin didnt play Karakas because its the only card I didnt have 2 of to complete 2 lists. Instead he played a fourth volc. We just determined plateau sucked and we always want blue mana. On cutting 1 clique from the md, we only play 20 land, we wanted to cut at least one three drop so clique it was. By cutting clique we were able to add a 3rd ponder which we loved. We actually wanted a 4th but couldn't find something else to cut.

As for the sb, we wanted a mix of gy hate thats why we played one of each crypt, cage, and rest in peace. We were also bringing in rest in peace vs punishing jund as it shut of punishing fire, grim, shaman, and goyf. The 4th geist was for the jund and bug matchup. Besides grim, geist is by far the best card vs them. Liliana may answer geist but just keep that in mind. Liliana is the only card you really need to care about. The pierce, blasts and force should all make sense. The 2nd clique was for combo too obv. Against combo decks the flash guy is so much better than geist. You just need to get a clock on vs them but don't want to tap out ever. If you play geist before you have at least 5 land in play I'd bet you just lost. E.E. and disenchant should be self explanatory but one thing to note is we brought in E.E. vs jund as either a way to 2 for 1 them and also a way to kill liliana. The last card that people may wonder about was sulfur elemental. Play the esper blade matchup when they have lingering souls and let me know how it goes. You will rarely win. That card is an issue for this deck, but with the element, you blow up tokens and get a flash guy and can stay untapped so you can still reb and pierce jaces and what not.

My matchups were 0-2 12 post, 2-0 punishing jund, 1-2 esper blade, 2-0 esper blade, 0-2 dredge, 2-1 next level thresh, 2-0 belcher, 2-0 jund W vs something I cant think of

Dustins were though I dont know his game counts W vs burn, W vs the new self mill deck, W vs 12 post, W vs UR burn, W vs Shardless bug (second place list who was also in our car) , W vs Jund 1 W vs one deck I cant think of then double draw in and in top 8 dredge, top 4 was sneak n show where Dustin punted pretty hard to lose. Other wise he would have won. We played that specific matchup at our hotel and they played in the event, it was a great matchup for us.

If anyone has any questions Ill be happy to answer them. Im not sure why people want to add another FOW, why? What card are you scared of? I feel I could cut another force from the md (though I wouldn't) and still have a great combo matchup. The point of the deck is to put pressure on and keep their land low so your pierces and dazes are very live.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

You want to save your Bolts as long as possible as you often can win games by getting in a Bolt or two to the dome instead of burning it on a creature. Use those StPs whenever you can, then move onto using burn. And I personally think we should focus on maximizing the early game (turn 1-3) as opposed to gameplanning for the late game where the deck does significantly worse.

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Considering how the Legacy build is actually more countermagic-oriented compared to the Modern build, that makes more sense now. I was seeing bolts more as part of the removal suite, as in the Modern version you need them for removal a lot of the time. Bolting a DRS asap against Jund in Modern prevented problems later on for me. So, really this deck is being approached more as a midrange UR Delver with white splash than a port of UWR Delver/ Geist of Saint Win. If you really want to maximize the early game, I'd suggest giving Snapcaster Mage a shot in the flex slots this deck seems to have (kind of like Wweenieking's build that he linked to in the post preceding mine - he's running 3 SCM). I'm probably pretty spoiled by SCM now from using it so much in Modern, but being able to flashback a bolt for the win could be a big help; maybe Wweenieking can provide some insight on the effectiveness of SCM in this build?

1) While I agree on the fact, that Swords should sometimes be used early on, and not the Bolts, you might be missing a point. You'll be pretty dead fast, if you Swords Shaman and Confidant, but only got Bolt vs Tarmogoyf.... So it's just not a set-in-stone rule, more like a hint for certain MUs, where all creatures die by Bolt.

2) As wweenieking said, Nimble Mongoose is a problem. And even though RUG is on the decline I don't think we can just move on and say "Oh wow, RUG is not the topdeck any more, so we just play graveyardhate that works better vs Dredge/Reanimator and let the Nimble Mongeese alone!" I could see no decent reasoning not to play 3-4 Rest in Peace as the Hate of choice.

3) I also don't understand why we would need Force, Pierce, Clique and 3(!) Red Elemental Blasts vs Combo in the Sideboard... Pretty much all of them are a good Match-Up in any way.... maybe Force, Pierce and 2 REBs might be enough...

4) As I am a big fan of Sulfur Elemental (I've been playing it since 9 months or so in Miracle) I think it might be good to ditch the Sideboard-Clique and add another Elemental, since we really struggle against 4-in-1-cards like Lingering Souls.

Greetings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Einherjer

2) As wweenieking said, Nimble Mongoose is a problem. And even though RUG is on the decline I don't think we can just move on and say "Oh wow, RUG is not the topdeck any more, so we just play graveyardhate that works better vs Dredge/Reanimator and let the Nimble Mongeese alone!" I could see no decent reasoning not to play 3-4 Rest in Peace as the Hate of choice.

4) As I am a big fan of Sulfur Elemental (I've been playing it since 9 months or so in Miracle) I think it might be good to ditch the Sideboard-Clique and add another Elemental, since we really struggle against 4-in-1-cards like Lingering Souls.

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Regarding Nimble Mongoose and Lingering Souls, there are sideboard options available to hit both. I actually really like Sulfur Elemental a lot because it takes care of Lingering Souls and gives you a dude, but if you want a sideboard option that hits both, I might look at Electrickery. Its overload hits all opponent's creatures for 1 and is instant speed. People run Pyroclasm in Modern, but I really don't like that option at all. At the very least, Electrickery will take care of a turn 1 or 2 Mongoose in multiples and save you headaches until they drop one with threshold later on.

A list for a 3rd place finish in a 16 person Magic League tourney: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10152&iddeck=73975

This may catch on. It's positioned well right now in the meta full of Blade Control and Jund running things.