Bob Depths

Based on recent success of 'Slow Depths', I am changing the scope of this thread to reflect the more common decklists and strategies. I will leave the original text at the bottom, if anyone is interested in seeing where I was coming from at the time (December 2017.) Since then several decklists have popped up with good finishes on both MTGO and in paper tournaments.

In a nutshell, the Slow Depths version looks to play a better long game than all-in on getting a Marit Lage token. As the Depths/Stage combo has become much more common, seeing play in R/G Lands as well as splashed in other decks like Maverick, the metagame has adapted and is prepared to face the dreaded 20/20. R/G lands has a combo finish and an incredible grind/control plan but tends to do poorly against specific combo decks like Show and Tell and Storm. Turbo Depths has great discard-based disruption and a super fast clock but struggles against some of the other top tier decks like Miracles and Death and Taxes. Slow Depths attempts to bridge the gap between the ultra-grindy R/G Lands and the uber-fast Turbo Depths: discard based disruption but also ways to accrue card advantage over time. Dark Confidant, especially with the low curve of a Depths strategy, fits in perfectly for that strategy. Deathrite Shaman allows for some mild acceleration, still allowing for a turn 2 token, but also isn't just a linear element of mana acceleration but also a threat in and of itself. Lastly, and likely the most valuable part, is that having more creatures available in the deck takes the threat of Diabolic Edict, as well as other sacrifice effects, and manages it better.

Some slow lists play maindeck Sylvan Library, some play it in the sideboard like Turbo Depths. Most Slow lists play maindeck Abrupt Decay, which is almost strictly a sideboard card in Turbo Depths. Many Slow lists also include a transformative strategy with Tarmogoyf and/or Bitterblossom in the sideboard to further bolster the bad matchups. I liken the strategy to Tarmo-Twin from a bygone Modern age where opponents had to play around the combo but ended up losing to fair beats because of it.

*****Decklists*****

Eternal Weekend 2018, Legacy Main Event, Vladamir Arneuve, FIRST PLACE, 5/5/2018

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19135&d=320910&f=LE

MTGO Challenge, 5/28/2018, RedderTory FIRST PLACE, 5/28/2018

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19356&d=323083&f=LE

Both events used the same 75, unless I missed something.

25 LANDS
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills

14 CREATURES
3 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage

17 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
4 Duress
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize

4 OTHER SPELLS
3 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library


SIDEBOARD

1 Bitterblossom
1 Choke
1 Dread of Night
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Grip
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Maze of Ith
2 Rite of Consumption
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge


SCG Team Open Baltimore, Jody Keith, THIRD PLACE, 4/29/2018

This is a slight variation where the transformative plan is emphasized more with Bitterblossom/Tarmogoyf in the sideboard, and going deeper into discard with Cabal Therapy out of the board. He is also trimming slightly on Safekeeper for the 4th Pithing Needle, but he also took a similar list to 10th place in Atlanta with the usual 3 Safekeeper/3 Needle (and a 3rd Bitterblossom in the board.) Link to that list: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19089&d=320420&f=LE

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19142&d=320987&f=LE

LANDS
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs

14 CREATURES
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage

17 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
4 Duress
2 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize

4 OTHER SPELLS
4 Pithing Needle

SIDEBOARD
2 Bitterblossom
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread of Night
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Grip
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tarmogoyf


{Below is my original post, take of it what you will.}

Good day to you all, I've been developing this deck for a little while as a result of trying to incorporate a miser's Dark Depths combo into a mid-range, black-green shell. I toyed around with a Nic-Fit shell for a little while, but that seemed to be much worse than doing traditional threats in that deck. What I gathered from reading the threads in that direction (Nic Fit/Maverick) was that Crop Rotation is a legitimate utility card, sometimes as a 1-2-of for utility lands and feeding Knight of the Reliquary. I also tried the combo in B/g Pox, and again, it was ok but not ideal. I had to be dedicated to the loam engine and 26-27 lands. I also couldn't feasibly run Dark Confidant with Smallpox/Pox being a focal point, and Bob has shown itself to be one of the best cards in my current list. The best performing version to-date plays a much better game with a ton of good stuff cards like Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman. It feels a lot like Splinter Twin in modern when that was legal: threaten the combo, but when people hold up interaction for that you can win with your other powerful cards. I'm even testing out 4x Tarmogoyf in the sideboard as a way to transition g2-3 after folks over-prepare for Crop Rotation. In my metagame there are several Chalice/Stompy variants as well, so hedging against Chalice@1 works well post-board. I also want to incorporate the Gitaxian Probe/Cabal Therapy synergy (why does Storm get to have all the fun?) Therapy is an excellent way to utilize extra copies of Dark Confidant.

One of the things that also really appeals to me is that Vampire Hexmage isn't just a one-trick-pony but rather a versatile utility creature that deals with a lot of threats in the legacy metagame. Jace, Chalice of the Void, and even Liliana are all still played quite a bit. First strike isn't insignificant either. While Dark Confidant, Vampire Hexmage, and Deathrite Shaman are fairly anemic threats on their own, the card advantage from Bob and the Dr are enough to get there when backed up with good disruption. I originally posted this in the Eva-Green thread, but it died off quickly during the Miracles Overlord era. With Counterbalance a seldom seen card now, it opens up more low-curve non-Vial options.

Here's the list I played yesterday at a weekly event, went 2-2 playing against mono-black Pox twice (weird, I know...), Dragon Stompy, and a homebrewed Eldrazi and Taxes Stompy variant (eldrazi with Thalia.) I beat Pox and Eldrazi Stompy, lost to Dragon Stompy and the other Pox deck. It felt like any other rock/good stuff deck where I was always in the game but lost to small edges or lock pieces. Dark Confidant was absolutely amazing, gave me a chance where I wouldn't otherwise have one.

Creatures - 12
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage

Discard/Probe
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
3x Gitaxian Probe
2x Hymn to Tourach

Removal/PW's
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Fatal Push
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Liliana of the Veil

Combo/Card Advantage
4x Crop Rotation
1x Life from the Loam
1x Sylvan Library

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
3x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg

Sideboard
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Choke
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Golgari Charm
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog


I wonder if a 2nd Library is better than the singleton Loam, which is really only there as a value card for Wasteland recursion or getting back Depths if dealt with. It feels really solid, but I can't help but think that I might be missing something. I think my removal is a bit narrow, Decay and Push overlapping quite a bit. Maybe a better creature removal that hits bigger things? I know Maze/Edict/Karaks do work out of the board but maybe my maindeck approach to removal is weak. Not sure, maybe its fine. I know I need more Bayous (working on it...) but for now Marsh has been surprisingly fine.

BTW, 'play turbo depths' is not a helpful comment, if you feel so inclined. Beyond that I hope to develop this deck further into a B/g value deck with the option of a quick combo.

I feel like since you don't have any cards that complement gitaxian probe other than therapy it might be better to just run more targeted discard in that slot. For example duress or inquisition of kozilek. Another thing you could possible do is run delve cards to complement it in the main or sideboard.

I'm also thinking you may want to run more than 1 of each for dark depths and thespian stage. If say dark depths gets wastelanded then exiled by an opposing DR shaman your chance of winning looks very low. If it were me I think I'd try replacing some number of urborgs with them.

This might be crazy but since you said you want a value combo deck, you may want to consider adding more cards from other primarily black dark confidant decks, the first one that comes to mind for me is The Gate

I'd also consider trying some number of mix diamonds, what they'd replace I'm not sure.

I'm not sure the deck really needs it, but.. With Confidant, Probe and Thoughtseize in the deck you may be close to being able to play Death's Shadow already. And a copy or two of Reanimate could be nice with that, getting back Confidant, Vampire Hexmage or Death's Shadow to overload removal, it also plays nicely with Death's Shadow. It's a nice strategy that doesn't rely on graveyard, I think I've read how Turbo Depths players sometimes have graveyard hate boarded in against them, so Death's Shadow over Goyf may have some merit. Or coupled with.

Edit: I love transformational sideboards; if you could play 4 Death's Shadow, 4 Dark Confidant, 4 Reanimate, 4 Pox or Smallpox post sideboard that would be a lot of fun (maybe more fun than good). T1 Deathrite, T2 Pox, T3 Thoughtseize and then Reanimate Death's Shadow. Or Smallpox, which is usually more easily playable. Boarding out 4 Crop Rotations probably since they are quite resource consuming.

Good thoughts guys, I'll chew on them for a while.

@Lexi: you have me convinced that Probe isn't worth playing. I'm not quite sure what to replace it with, but I want it to be low cost so as to avoid excessive damage from Bob. Maybe just more discard, like another Hymn. I think adding a land to the maindeck would be ok, like Dryad Arbor (to avoid Diabolic Edict after Marit Lage) or maindeck Maze of Ith. With 4x Therapy, 3x Thoughtseize, 2x Hymn, and 2x Liliana the discard suite is already very strong. Maybe Collective Brutality? I'll ponder on it, but you've convinced me of Gitaxian Probe being a place to cut. I was using it as a sideboard flex slot, essentially boarding them out every game after I knew what I was playing. Urborg at 4 I'm almost positive is correct, about 95% confidence. With 6 colorless lands in the main (maybe 7 if I mainboard Maze) I definitely need maximum chances of turning them into swamps. Urborg also allows for the (admittedly rare) turn 1 Urborg, turn 2 DD/Hexmage, turn 3 kill with a 20/20. More copies of Dark Depths would be beneficial, but I don't want to take up slots...I think hedging against losing Depths is fine with Loam, but committing too many slots to the combo doesn't let me play the grindy part of the deck as well. It's value first, combo as a fast win condition, and the combo pieces are useful even outside the combo. Rather than opponent's getting the 'gotcha!' feeling when they break up the combo, they still have to face Hexmage killing jaces, Bob drawing tons of cards, and Crop Rotation into utility lands.

I was having a little bit of trouble with Blood Moon, so maybe an Expedition Map x1-2 would be good. I drew plenty of lands, but I was hamstrung a couple times waiting for a basic land to show up. An argument for 2nd Forest.

I've also won a bunch of games with Dark Confidant/Hexmage beats. My chances of winning don't go down too badly with Depths in the graveyard.

Mox Diamond is out of my price range. I'm trying to trade into them but most folks aren't willing to trade them off. I agree it would be solid tech for the deck, especially if I go up to 24 lands.

@pettdan: I like the Death's Shadow idea, but I also have a ton of Chalice players in my metagame. I faced two in one weekly event, and there was only 9 players! Tarmogoyf at 2 mana was really the selling point for an alternative threat. I think if someone is boarding in graveyard hate for Depths, that's really going deep honestly. They don't even play loam to get back DD, although some are trying out Ramanup Excavator. Surgical Extraction is the real threat, and if they do that to DD then Tarmogoyf is free to beat down! I think having so many must-answer threats (bob, goyf, DD) that it becomes difficult to deal with them all. The funny thing is I don't have Shadows, but I do have goyfs! It was definitely on my mind that if my opponent sees loam g1 then they would board in grave hate, and that is counterproductive to the goyf board plan. I guess its another use for Cabal Therapy when its only a 0/1?

I'm not sure I need Loam at all, it's definitely a flex slot. I would love to use Eternal Witness in that slot, but double green is very tough to get. Maybe a 2nd Forest maindeck and playing Witness is the right avenue. With 4x Urborg a 2nd Forest is incredibly low risk, especially given how important green mana is even though I don't play many green cards.

Smallpox/Pox, well, I don't think with 12 maindeck creatures its the right approach. Unearth seems like fairly decent tech with that approach...everything is <2 mana. Maindeck Witness seems like it would support that as well. Unearth with Witness is pretty hot tech, honestly. As singletons I don't know how reliable they are, but it would be just another hedge against losing combo pieces. I would probably play a Witness, or another Library, before I went deep into the Reanimate/Pox route. Witness seems very good

Well guys, here is what I'm thinking I can do based on your feedback, please let me know if you think it's good or not!

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Life from the Loam
+1 Forest
+1 Expedition Map
+1 Eternal Witness
+1 Sylvan Library

I don't think I need more discard, not with 11 maindeck sources already. I do like the idea of another tutor for the deck, even if it is slow, just because it can operate under Blood Moon and get basics.

I appreciate the feedback immensely! I'm going to a tournament in February, and I think this is the deck I'm bringing. I have a couple months to tune it closer to optimal.

hello!

With so many key créatures, isn't unearth a card to concider?

Grave dépendant but seems polyvalent as 1 off, good in the long game and pretty powerful with Eternal witness

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Good thoughts guys, I'll chew on them for a while.

@Lexi: you have me convinced that Probe isn't worth playing.

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I would consider it sometimes in non-blue decks. If you run Delve creatures for instance Probe gets you there much quicker, combined with it's pro-therapy interaction things like that are enough to push it over the edge into usability again. When I was starting in legacy I ran it in Pox (and not many decks snuff their own hp like pox with 3 big pox) and I didn't have issues. DRS can cast it when you're desperate, and I definitely won a couple games where a Probe revealed 3x Blah and I munched the player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tescrin

I would consider it sometimes in non-blue decks. If you run Delve creatures for instance Probe gets you there much quicker, combined with it's pro-therapy interaction things like that are enough to push it over the edge into usability again. When I was starting in legacy I ran it in Pox (and not many decks snuff their own hp like pox with 3 big pox) and I didn't have issues. DRS can cast it when you're desperate, and I definitely won a couple games where a Probe revealed 3x Blah and I munched the player.

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This was definitely why I started with Probe. I am not uber familiar with the legacy metagame, but I really like the power level of Therapy. Enter: Gitaxian Probe to let me utilize Therapy, give me perfect information, and simply give me more ways to dig deeper into my deck without splashing blue. You could probably convince me to keep Probe in, but I'm not denying that cutting it for Witness/Forest/random good card wouldn't also be good. Honestly, what I liked the most about Probe is that it was an easy cut for sideboarding. Again, my familiarity with legacy isn't great so I would need g1 to really get a feel for the matchup. Against some unfair matchups, I wouldn't hesitate a second to limit my value to one turn (activate DRS/get a draw off Bob) and then sac them to Therapy so I could hamstring my opponent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by echoes

hello!

With so many key créatures, isn't unearth a card to concider?

Grave dépendant but seems polyvalent as 1 off, good in the long game and pretty powerful with Eternal witness

---

I could see playing 1-2 of them, but with only 1x Witness (I definitely wouldn't play more than that) the chances of it becoming a card advantage loop/engine are really slim. Therapy sacking the witness then Unearthing it gives a lot of value, no doubt. I just don't think that's better than playing even another Sylvan Library to help me dig deeper.

Not dismissing it outright, I'll keep it on the back burner.

If you're considering exposition map you may also want to consider sylvan scrying, same effect, sylvan can't be used unless you have green but it's cheaper overall and less likely to get hit by chalice of the void.

Something else interesting since you're mostly black you may want to run the black threshold land, that way you have a recursive answer to creatures

Cabal Pit is mediocre when I'm only playing 1 loam, and I might even be dropping that for Eternal Witness because its more flexible. CP is incredible in pox decks, especially Bg pox, because of the loam engine. I just don't feel the need to try and squeeze in another synergy. That's why I'm not playing Barren Moor as a cycle land either, it just doesn't work well unless I'm already committed to the loam engine. This deck already has a split personality, but one that can function. I don't think going that deep into Crop Rotation/Loam synergy is wise unless I play another 1-2 lands or another 1-2 loams. The sideboarded lands are specific to matchups where they are incredible on their own, making the lost tempo an easily justified trade-off.

I am definitely considering Sylvan Scrying, which as you point out has the better cost at 2 mana. With another basic Forest in the deck I think it's reasonable to cast, and it would also let me tutor without Crop Rotation, which is also at 1 mana (nerfed by Chalice@1). Solid suggestion.

Holy shit...just found these:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17827&d=310507&f=LE

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16663&d=303058&f=LE

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16406&d=301313&f=LE


They all play Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman, Liliana, and Abrupt Decay in some number. One even uses Probe/Therapy, which is super cool to see that someone else thought of that for this deck. Now for the discouraging part for me: they all played 4 copies of Dark Depths, which I think is likely because Bob will not cause much life loss with so many lands (28.) I don't have 4 copies of Dark Depths! I've been trying for a while, but don't have the $120 to spend and people don't like to trade them away.

I'm hoping I can make it work with a stronger value plan.

Played similar BG and Junk lists. Living Wish is pretty strong fetching all parts or utility creatures, and with utility creatures GSZ MD gives you options allowing you to cut things such as Pulse for creatures with ETB etc. I found Chalice builds to be best... but suck at remembering Chalice so don't tend to play them for long. With Chalice, 2cmc becomes more important and Mox Diamond helps the non-chalice hands an awful lot.

Thanks for the input, I've definitely thought about Living Wish. It's much slower, but much more flexible than Crop Rotation. I could see some very good options (Reclamation Sage, Fleshbag Marauder, Shriekmaw, others) along with having maindeck access to Karakas, Maze of Ith, and Bojuka Bog without having to mess up my mana base for them. In the long run, I'd rather just play an alternative fair/grinding game plan rather than play a slower version of Turbo Depths.

I think I'm committed to the 2nd Forest/Eternal Witness plan. I'll be cutting the Loam and a Probe for that. I think 2 probes will be fine, it's not a necessary synergy and I have other ways of seeing their hand (Thoughtseize) for Therapy. Just naming what I know will make me lose, and having even a small idea of what they are playing, I think are enough to make Therapy good enough for the deck. However...I think playing 4 Therapy is probably 1 too many, which leaves me with one open slot. Here is my short list in order:

1) Sylvan Scrying (additional Tutor)
2) 2nd Sylvan Library (Bob + Library is a very good engine)
3) Unearth (utility card, very good synergy with my low-cost creatures, good for grinding, late game engine with Eternal Witness)
4) 3rd Removal/Discard (Liliana, Hymn, Abrupt Decay, Fatal Push)

If anyone has more ideas, please chime in! I'm very happy with all of the feedback so far, I appreciate the community here at The Source big time.

I have a handful of more ideas but they all would require a shift in how the deck was built a bit too drastically...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lexi

I have a handful of more ideas but they all would require a shift in how the deck was built a bit too drastically...

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Throw them out there, I'm still in the testing phase. These are the core cards I'm committed to:

4x Dark Confident
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Crop Rotation
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage

Beyond that I know I need some amount of disruption in the form of discard and removal. The rest is up for grabs, so I welcome your thoughts.

EDIT: Liliana, the Last Hope? Seems pretty good, especially because her 2nd ability is actually quite useful for me getting back Hexmages, Deathrites, Bobs, and Witness (Goyf sideboard.)

I'll edit this later why I think these might be useful though they each require a lot of changes to the deck.
Ancient strirings
Chalice of the void
Lake of the dead
Ad nausium
Grove of burn willows + that 2 mana recursive shock

Yes, those are all options I have thought about. I'll answer them line by line:

1) Ancient Stirrings - If I had 4x each of Depths/Stage, this would be very good, or at least powerful. I think with only singletons, Library/Tutors are better.
2) Chalice - I am committed to Deathrite Shaman, targeted discard, and Crop Rotation. No go.
3) Lake of the Dead - Pretty sweet mana ramp for sure, but what would I do with that extra 4 mana? Reanimator Depths uses it as a ritual that makes good use of extra lands, and they can win on the spot with BBBB with entomb/exhume, protected with discard like Collective Brutality. I don't think its worth going that deep. With Loam, maybe...but most of my stuff costs 2 or less, and I don't need to blast 4 mana to grind.
4) Ad Nauseam - this has me intrigued...but infernal tutor into AN wins on the spot in storm, I don't see that as viable unless I played Dark Ritual. Even turbo depths doesn't play Dark Ritual, they play Lotus Petal and Elvish Spirit Guide. Five is just too much.
5) Grove of the Burnwillows/Punishing Fire - I've thougth about splashing red, but I don't have the Groves, or the Taiga/Badlands to make a red splash work. I would love to sqeeze in 2x Bloodbraid Elf, Burning Wish, Punishing Fire...basically play Jund Depths. That's just a little too far out of reach for me. Good suggestion though!

I have tested Unearth and Eternal Witness this weekend, playing against Grixis Delver and Death & Taxes. It was good in both matchups, and I did live the dream of Witness/Unearth engine grinding out advantage, sacrificing to Cabal Therapy and then getting it back for B, then getting Unearth back. Unearth got back a Dark Confidant and Hexmage a couple times as well. Solid tech.

The more I play with Gitaxian Probe, I think I would be better served by using different cards. I think I have a decent enough familiarity of the format that I can justify Cabal Therapy without it. I'm dropping the remaining copies for Sylvan Scrying and another Sylvan Library.

New list:

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
1x Eternal Witness

3x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Crop Rotation
2x Fatal Push
1x Unearth
3x Hymn to Tourach
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Sylvan Library
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Liliana of the Veil

4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
3x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage

Sideboard
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Choke
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Golgari Charm
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith

Wow, witness is super clunky. Dropped. No real reason to use unearth anymore really, probably go back to loam. That gives me around 5 slots to play around with.

EDIT: I'm putting in the 2nd Library, 3rd Liliana, 1x Sylvan Scrying, 1x Forest, 3rd Hymn to Tourach. Gitaxian Probe = out, Eternal Witness/Loam = out. I could see playing the Loam, maybe in the board.

So I'm thinking the Wasteland plan is a questionable option. It's a good utility disruption in most matchups, but may not make enough difference in the matchups where I need to go long (Miracles, Czech Pile.) Where it doesn't provide black or green mana (sans Urborg) I was thinking of trimming it down to 3, maybe 2 copies. That opens up some room for additional disruption (mana is already solid) or possibly something to accelerate, like a Chrome Mox or multiple Lotus Petals. Petals don't change my curve for bob but allow for some faster turns. Mox would have to be only 1-2 copies at most, the cards are just too important. Without a strong loam focus and more lands I wouldn't want Mox Diamond, and I don't have them anyways.

On the other hand, drawing multiple Wastelands with Bob can be really solid at fighting fair decks. I like both options, so I might test them out. Turbo Depths plays Petals/Elvish Spirit Guides to accelerate their combo, I'm thinking Petals would allow for some faster starts on board. Turn 1 Confidant/Hymn/Library/Hexmage, or just doubling up on discard + Deathrite Shaman would be really great. Petal also allows me to play around Blood Moon very well, which has merit. The deck has such a low curve (average cost of a card is 1.65, even with 4 3-drops) that I wouldn't need a ton of lands anyways.

So this is my next quandary: do I play Lotus Petals for faster starts or do I go for Wasteland and rely on the grind plan? It's really a matter of speed I think vs having a broader approach.

Anyone have some thoughts on Petal vs. Wasteland?

Potential Lotus Petal list, maxing out on Hymn:

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage

3x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
2x Fatal Push
4x Crop Rotation
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Sylvan Library
1x Sylvan Scrying
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Maelstrom Pulse

4x Lotus Petal

4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
3x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespians' Stage


I like the idea of speeding the deck up, with both the combo AND grind plan. It seems good on the surface, but I'm not sure.

Would love some feedback, please!