Revised duals with a different feel?
Merry Christmas everyone!
I have the chance to get two duals, an Underground Sea and a Bayou, from a friend for a fair price. I have compared them to other duals I own of the same kind and they pass the light, gloss, and loupe tests but they just have a different feel. Very slight but almost waxy. I flipped my unsleeved pile of duals upside down and without looking, was able to tell the difference between them and pick them out of the pile. The Bayou is slightly darker, just a tad, as is the Underground Sea. So my questions is, are these fakes even though they passed other tests or are they real and I am being paranoid?
In addition, I did Google this in advance of this posting and could find things about glossy duals (which I have seen) but that is not what these are.
Thank you in advance.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Do they look like they've been played with for 20 years?
I have some fake cards from China (wanted to see what they were like. This was a few years ago but they definitely had a very glossy feel, but also failed the light test.)
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Here is a link to the images and scans.
Underground Sea https://imgur.com/gallery/PEdIy
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
From the look of the backsides I would have quessed they are played cards from early 2000. All my duals look a bit lighter imo. Not sure how much the photo fakes. Could you post your original duals in the same picture?
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Hard to tell, they look legit. I'm. A little hesitant of any front that looks that good like the bayou. My recommendation is bring it to a well known dealer. The patterns look good though in the fine print scans.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Rosettes are legit man, the black is crisp and obviously in sync with wotc printing layers (i.e. applied last). Maybe the waxy feel comes from card sleeves? I mean if it passed all your standard tests?...
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Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mistercakes
Hard to tell, they look legit. I'm. A little hesitant of any front that looks that good like the bayou. My recommendation is bring it to a well known dealer. The patterns look good though in the fine print scans.
The camera is giving it a lotof credit. I debated posting that pic. Another one coming soon.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mistercakes
Hard to tell, they look legit. I'm. A little hesitant of any front that looks that good like the bayou. My recommendation is bring it to a well known dealer. The patterns look good though in the fine print scans.
Here is a closer pic. If you are reffering to the clean border. I have seen the guy take a lightly damped, smoothe cloth and make a dirty border look great again.
Bayou 2nd Pic https://imgur.com/gallery/9OKkz
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
raudo
From the look of the backsides I would have quessed they are played cards from early 2000. All my duals look a bit lighter imo. Not sure how much the photo fakes. Could you post your original duals in the same picture?
Here ya go. In each picture, the ones I'm questioning are on the right. The Bayou is a little darker. Could that just be a print run thing? I see that happen with cards all the time.
Comparisons https://imgur.com/gallery/P6if0
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
In addition, should it be a red flag that I cannot immediately see the rosette pattern on the very bottomof the underground see by the artist's name? It seems like it can be tough to find in the snowflake rosette patterns.
Top and bottomof sea https://imgur.com/gallery/qaXKL
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Miagi
Funny enough I was watching this at the time you posted. Unfortunately he doesn't say anything about rosette patterns and such. The problem is everything else looks good so does one weird thing make it a fake?
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MagicGyy
In addition, should it be a red flag that I cannot immediately see the rosette pattern on the very bottomof the underground see by the artist's name? It seems like it can be tough to find in the snowflake rosette patterns.
Top and bottomof sea
https://imgur.com/gallery/qaXKL
This link actually answers my question here. The snowflake rosette pattern is incredibly inconsistent and that is why the snowflake is easy to seein one spot and not the other. That then takes me back to my original question, is the feel being slightly off really something wo worry about when it passes all the other tests?
http://the-print-guide.blogspot.com/...alize.html?m=1
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MagicGyy
Merry Christmas everyone!
I have the chance to get two duals, an Underground Sea and a Bayou, from a friend for a fair price. I have compared them to other duals I own of the same kind and they pass the light, gloss, and loupe tests but they just have a different feel. Very slight but almost waxy. I flipped my unsleeved pile of duals upside down and without looking, was able to tell the difference between them and pick them out of the pile. The Bayou is slightly darker, just a tad, as is the Underground Sea. So my questions is, are these fakes even though they passed other tests or are they real and I am being paranoid?
In addition, I did Google this in advance of this posting and could find things about glossy duals (which I have seen) but that is not what these are.
Thank you in advance.
If you are receiving these from a friend and questining their authenticity i might question my friendship first if you think he would sell you fake duals.
Older card sets had alot of printing inconsistencies.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
If you are receiving these from a friend and questining their authenticity i might question my friendship first if you think he would sell you fake duals.
Older card sets had alot of printing inconsistencies.
Wow. I did not expect this. In no way do I think he is trying to sell me fake duals. I think the feel just does not bother him. I am just very particular about cards, especially old ones and wanted my paranoia relieved or validated before making a decision.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MagicGyy
Wow. I did not expect this. In no way do I think he is trying to sell me fake duals. I think the feel just does not bother him. I am just very particular about cards, especially old ones and wanted my paranoia relieved or validated before making a decision.
Also consider that if a card is actually fake but it is such a good fake that no one could tell and you wouldnt get in trouble at a tournament what difference does it make? Obviously no one wants a fake card but sometimes it doesnt matter. If anyone you would eventually sell it to couldnt tell it is effectively authentic.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
Also consider that if a card is actually fake but it is such a good fake that no one could tell and you wouldnt get in trouble at a tournament what difference does it make? Obviously no one wants a fake card but sometimes it doesnt matter. If anyone you would eventually sell it to couldnt tell it is effectively authentic.
You are toxic to the Legacy community. It always matters. I could not keep/play with much less trade a card that I had the slightest feeling might be fake. This thread has officially jumped the shark. I am just going to bring it to some judges to be looked at. I will report back with the outcome.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MagicGyy
You are toxic to the Legacy community. It always matters. I could not keep/play with much less trade a card that I had the slightest feeling might be fake. This thread has officially jumped the shark. I am just going to bring it to some judges to be looked at. I will report back with the outcome.
I think you may have misunderstood. Ofc it matters because no one wants to add fake cards to the pool. However, there comes a point when you do all the checks and something still doesnt feel right or seem right but other than your instinct the card checks out ok. You can continue to gather more opinion or tou can just accept that cards that are 25 years old are going to be a little different. There are a number of reasons why.
When i say printing inconsistencies think like when a printer runs out of ink or starts to run low. Sometimes the finish they put on the cards make ght not have been applied correctly. 25 years ago the company was tiny and didnt have the same quality control as they do now. If you have alot of old cards like alpha, beta, or unlimited, you will notice subtle differences. The reason i know that they existed is because i have tons of old alpha and beta commons that no one would ever make fakes of. Between them there were a few different feels and shading differences. Obviously there were miscuys too.
In addition to the various printing inconsistencies there are other reasons cards can appear and feel different. Iirc revised was printed in two different factories. There was the american one and foreign one, i think in europe. I think this resulted in different card stock being used and probably the wax coating. This is most recognizable when touching revised cards in foreign languages. Additionally cards wear didferently based on how they were used. Cards used without sleeves obviously show wear. But wax coating wear differently based on oils in players skin. Also consider the conditions the cards were stores in. Cards can be stored indoors ~70 degrees but also left in the garage and frozen or left in the texas 100 degree heat and dried out. Consider high humidity areas too like houston texas. These can also affect how cards look and feel.
For these reasons and probably others i have left out are why i say that at some point it doesnt matter. Its not that i want fakes in the community but you have to just accept that cards have discrepancies at somepoint. Once you have exhausted all reasonable means for testing a card you have 3 choices. Rip it in half and look for the blue, get it graded by professionals, or just accept it.
Re: Revised duals with a different feel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
apple713
I think you may have misunderstood. Ofc it matters because no one wants to add fake cards to the pool. However, there comes a point when you do all the checks and something still doesnt feel right or seem right but other than your instinct the card checks out ok. You can continue to gather more opinion or tou can just accept that cards that are 25 years old are going to be a little different. There are a number of reasons why.
When i say printing inconsistencies think like when a printer runs out of ink or starts to run low. Sometimes the finish they put on the cards make ght not have been applied correctly. 25 years ago the company was tiny and didnt have the same quality control as they do now. If you have alot of old cards like alpha, beta, or unlimited, you will notice subtle differences. The reason i know that they existed is because i have tons of old alpha and beta commons that no one would ever make fakes of. Between them there were a few different feels and shading differences. Obviously there were miscuys too.
In addition to the various printing inconsistencies there are other reasons cards can appear and feel different. Iirc revised was printed in two different factories. There was the american one and foreign one, i think in europe. I think this resulted in different card stock being used and probably the wax coating. This is most recognizable when touching revised cards in foreign languages. Additionally cards wear didferently based on how they were used. Cards used without sleeves obviously show wear. But wax coating wear differently based on oils in players skin. Also consider the conditions the cards were stores in. Cards can be stored indoors ~70 degrees but also left in the garage and frozen or left in the texas 100 degree heat and dried out. Consider high humidity areas too like houston texas. These can also affect how cards look and feel.
For these reasons and probably others i have left out are why i say that at some point it doesnt matter. Its not that i want fakes in the community but you have to just accept that cards have discrepancies at somepoint. Once you have exhausted all reasonable means for testing a card you have 3 choices. Rip it in half and look for the blue, get it graded by professionals, or just accept it.
My apologies. I did misunderstand and that explanation makes complete sense. Thank you for elaborating. So I take it you have or have had cards with the same type of texture as I explained? Because like I said, they look exactly like other cards and pass the tests. I even bought a few revised cards to compare them to, the texture is literally the only thing that seems off. Thank you again for your in depth explanation. And again, my apolgies for calling you toxic.
