UBg Death's Shadow

Let's talk UBx Death's Shadow.

I think this deck has some real potential. I'm 6-0 in my local legacy weeklies, and the deck feels like it has a ton of potential.

There seems to be two major "versions" of UBx Death's Shadow: Delver and Street Wraith.

Example "Delver" Shadow list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/937169#paper

Example "Wraith" Shadow list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1037592#paper

Personally, I prefer the feel of Wraith Shadow. Having a 52-card deck and a reasonable likelihood of a turn 2 and easily turn 3 Gurmag Angler is a hell of a drug.

Here's the list that I am on:
Creatures:15
4 Death's Shadow
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Street Wraith
3 Gurmag Angler

Spells:29
2 Berserk
4 Brainstorm
2 Fatal Push
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Thoughtseize
4 Daze
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will

Lands:16
1 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
2 Watery Grave

Sideboard:15
2 Fatal Push
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Darkblast
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Toxic Deluge

A couple discussion points:
* I am playing only 16 lands, while many of the 5-0 lists play 17 or more. With 4 street wraith and 4 gitaxian probe, i have the same distribution of color producing lands as grixis delver (13/52 = 14/56), so I think the 16 lands are actually correct, even though it looks fairly aggressive.
* No stifle. I think stifle fits better in the Delver shell than the Wraith shell, but even there I'm not convinced it's the best for that slot.
* 2 Thoughtseize. Many lists play 4; this helps your combo matchup but is not as good in the fair matches. It is also more proactive and less reactive, and I prefer having extra counterspells over discard. (Though I have the other 2 in my sideboard).
* 2 Berserk. Many lists play only 1 (or none!!). When on the Wraith version, I think 1 Berserk is an absolute necessity. I think I prefer 2, but would need more testing. Last night alone, I won half my games with a berserk kill (and likely would have lost without the card). Two highlights include: berserk'ing a 9/9 shadow that was blocked by a baleful strix for 17 exactsies. And Berserking a 10/10 shadow that was blocked by a goblin guide; the pyrostatic pillar triggered and dropped me to 1, resulting in a 24 power trampling shadow.
* 4 DRS. Many lists are only playing 1-2, but it's the best 1-drop creature in Legacy. Why would we not play 4???

Obviously, lots of anecdotal evidence in this post, but I just wanted to get a discussion going and see what other Shadow pilots thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jroharo

* 4 DRS. Many lists are only playing 1-2, but it's the best 1-drop creature in Legacy. Why would we not play 4???

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Because the chip damage is largely irrelevant when you're attacking with a 5/5 or larger and the fixing isn't *that* relevant in what is essentially a two color deck. DRS is absurdly good in Grixis Delver because -- with the exception of the fast Angler draws -- you're often getting in a few points here or there with a Delver or a few Pyromancer tokens and it's quite easy to get the opponent to a point where a few Deathrite activations and a bolt or two will finish them off. I think Shadow is a lot more binary: either you connect with a giant fatty and they're dead, or you don't and they're not. Plus, Grixis D is looking to cast 2+ drops (YP, TNN), which Shadow isn't.

(Deathrite was also a bit medium in the "Dark Thresh" BUG Mongoose/Delver/Fatal Push deck that people experimented with immediately after 'Push was printed.)

I think Shadow is great in Legacy though. There are a lot of ways to build the deck, it's fun to play and competitive. I used to play a bit of hybrid UB list last year with the full four Wraiths and two Delvers:


3 Underground Sea
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland

4 Death's Shadow
3 Gurmag Angler
2 Delver of Secrets

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce

3 Fatal Push
2 Dismember

SB:
2 Surgical Extaction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Bitterblossom
1 Divert
1 Dread of Night
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fatal Push
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shrivel
1 Null Rod
1 Winter Orb


I didn't really like the Delvers, but it felt like I wanted more than just 4 Shadow/3 Angler as threats. Delver's evasion is really useful in some match-ups. (I did try Phyrexian Dreadnought in that slot for a laugh for one event. It's fun, but probably not really playable in Legacy these days.) Berserk in your list probably helps to make up for the lack of evasion.

Thinking about things again now, I think I like the idea of 16 lands. I'd probably cut a Wasteland from my build since it doesn't really cast any of the spells in the deck.

Stifle vs Thoughtseize. I tried Thoughtseize main, but I felt like Stifle fit the game-plan a bit better. The deck is all one mana threats that you (generally) aren't casting turn one + instant speed disruption, so running Stifle means you can just always play a land and pass turn one. If they crack a fetch then fine. If not, then you probably still have an answer for whatever they're trying to do. Also, Legacy decks are mono cantrips so even if you take an important card with Thoughtseize, they can generally dig for a second copy pretty easily.

The sideboard Bitterblossom was insane. Would highly recommend vs Swords to Plowshares decks (also good vs Lands!).

Thanks for the reply pow22!

I can see how the chip damage is not as relevant in UB Shadow, but I honestly have really liked having the full suite of DRS. It still enables extremely explosive openings, and it's still a must-answer threat to most decks (further stretching their removal base). It also enables us to have further control over our life total (if we need to stem the bleeding against aggressive decks, it helps offset the 8x probe effects).

I think 16-lands is 100% correct. I have not had issues with the lands in my testing, and I think cutting Wasteland is correct (as you said, it doesn't help us cast any of our spells).

I haven't tried Stifle yet, but I'll keep it in mind to try instead of Thoughtseize. I also haven't tried Bitterblossom. I'll give that one a shot as well, along with Sylvan Library (which I keep meaning to put in my sideboard and seem to forget every monday).

are you guys still rockin Shadow?
its a really hyped deck in Germany. Saw Menguccis list and its really interesting. i just don't understand how you can win against UWx with it. Are there any new results ? do you think the deck is the "real" thing? i'm so tired of Grixis Delver right now. How do you feel about this MU in general? i can see your creatures are bigger but you are fast in their bolt range aren't you?

I haven't played Shadow for a bit now... The main problems I found were that Baleful Strix makes attacking with one giant fatty awkward and that Swords to Plowshares is really good against what you're trying to do. The green-splash builds might be in a better position to deal with Strix because they can just Berserk through a giant Shadow, but I really liked the mana in the straight UB build.

Grixis can be tricky to play against (from what I remember), but your threats are all amazing and do a good job of dodging Bolt. It might be 50/50? Probably very dependent on play-skill, exact build and which player wins the die roll. I don't think Pile or Miracles are favourable match-ups though.

Took a bizarre Shadow list to a 3-0 finish at a weekly event. Report can be found here: https://old.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...nt_report_and/

Has anyone been playing this deck? I’m looking to try this deck out. I haven’t really heard anything about this deck lately.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CovenantElite30

Has anyone been playing this deck? I’m looking to try this deck out. I haven’t really heard anything about this deck lately.


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Looks like Sean Brown been tinkering with a Berserk list for BUG Shadow, I myself will look to build and playtest this locally https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...et-2019-so-far . There's people out there brewing it, getting 5-0s over the last few months (example: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1161962#paper) . Right now, it's a bit of wild west as people are trying to figure out what works best (go for berserk kill, stay UB to run stifles, etc)

I guess a lot depends on your meta. I’m not sure who this deck does against D&T and Miracles. I feel like those are probably it’s worst matchups. STP really messes this deck up badly and not having my creatures attacking is a bit of a problem.


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A large portion of these decks look like they're moving away from what is known to work in legacy (4x DRS, 4x Delver). These decks are bending over backwards to meet the requirement of <16 creatures, but also incorporating Street Wraith. Legacy isn't modern though, so I'm not sure why these lists are still on the highly linear Street Wraith plan; the ability to burn oneself down below 13 consistently before turn 3 doesn't really translate to winning a game in an interactive format...where you just lost four removal-distracting targets to cycle for 2 life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

A large portion of these decks look like they're moving away from what is known to work in legacy (4x DRS, 4x Delver). These decks are bending over backwards to meet the requirement of <16 creatures, but also incorporating Street Wraith. Legacy isn't modern though, so I'm not sure why these lists are still on the highly linear Street Wraith plan; the ability to burn oneself down below 13 consistently before turn 3 doesn't really translate to winning a game in an interactive format...where you just lost four removal-distracting targets to cycle for 2 life.

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I agree. I’m surprised these decks aren’t running goyf for early pressure. This deck is very mana light so maybe that’s not where it wants to be. Not sure. I will test it out though. Doing something on turn one however is very important for this deck.



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No actual experience with this particular deck. But Bob is a strong card in legacy that currently is underplayed because it has no home (except punishing loam..?)
It's a great way to lose life and get value out of it Bob is also a magnet for eating removal and unanswered it can run away with the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackaBo

No actual experience with this particular deck. But Bob is a strong card in legacy that currently is underplayed because it has no home (except punishing loam..?)
It's a great way to lose life and get value out of it Bob is also a magnet for eating removal and unanswered it can run away with the game.

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To begin considering this card you can't play any Street Wraith and have to cut delve threats down to 0-1. It's definitely possible to do, but Infernal Contract in the board might accomplish roughly the same thing while allowing delve threats in the main. Bob also competes with Sylvan Library.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

To begin considering this card you can't play any Street Wraith and have to cut delve threats down to 0-1. It's definitely possible to do, but Infernal Contract in the board might accomplish roughly the same thing while allowing delve threats in the main. Bob also competes with Sylvan Library.

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This is the list I've been trying. Basically just splashing green for Goyf. Still a work in progress and any suggestions would be great. Thank you.

Creatures:
4 Death's Shadow
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Street Wraith
2 Gurmag Angler

Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
4 Daze
2 Fatal Push
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dismember
1 Reanimate
2 Stubborn Denial

Lands:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland
1 Overgrown Tomb


Sideboard:
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Marsh Casualties
3 Dread of Night
1 Flusterstorm
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Bitterblossom

@CovenantElite30 I'm immediately concerned by 4 Delver with 17 creatures; you're approaching numbers of cards that don't flip Delver closer to what we'd expect out of UWR Delver (they run more lands and equip). Street Wraith's inclusion is a pretty imporant decision fork, and when you choose to go down that path DRS should become a better choice [DRS also allows you to win games you normally couldn't by non-targeting life loss]. I understand the inclination to run Goyf, but it's another colored, yard-dependent, non-trampler...so we're doubling down on the same strategies, which already lose to fair decks.

I don't think Street Wraith belongs in blue-based legacy Shadow [subjective] because linearity doesn't help bad matchups and it makes games against anything with a little burn (primarily Grixis Delver) that much harder. I'd be more comfortable with a creature set of DRS x4/Delver x3*/Shadow x4/Tombstalker x2/flex slot x1**. I don't see a 2-drop creature like Goyf making as much of an impact as Liliana, the Last Hope x2 [maindeck]. The other card I routinely run which doesn't flip Delver is Sylvan Library x2.
*18 non-lands that don't flip Delver is why I don't run the full playset
**the flex slot can be another delve threat, Leovold, or high payoff card at 2-3cmc.

As far as spells go I like Thoughtseize x4/Daze x4/FoW x4/Brainstorm x4/Probe x4. In the last four slots (I prefer 18 lands) Berserk x2 and something along the lines of Decay/Collective Brutality/Push/G. Charm. Berserk is the ideal maindeck removal spell as it not only kills their guy but ramps you into Shadow's life territory, and when it isn't doing that it's solving the whole can't trample problem the deck has. There are fringe scenarios with Library in play, Beserk in response to StP to gain heinous amounts of life to turn into cards.

Even without Stifle I like the Wasteland playset, putting lands at 18. I generally only use two shocks (UB and UG) with Sea x2 and Bayou x1. I always play basic Swamp, and if a Stifle build a basic Island as well (-1 fetch to fit in Island).

Your sideboard seems fine. Personally not a fan of Liliana-otV; just a 3 mana way to lose to JTMS. Prefer modality of G. Charm over Marsh Casualties. I like Surgical x2 over Macabre and I'd put the two copies of Stubborn in the board (these come in when Daze is bad, mostly vs Tundra). Bitterblossom seems fine, but as with Street Wraith it puts you further down the path of linear life loss - have to pay attention to what kind of cards and amounts are coming in when Thoughtseize/Probe begin coming out. When preserving life you probably want some removal here. Triple Dread is about required to have a chance vs DnT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

@CovenantElite30 I'm immediately concerned by 4 Delver with 17 creatures; ...

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Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

I was just trying out the Delver / Goyf package.

The deck just feels very threat light and having the extra pressure seemed nice.

I'm considering going up to 4 Gurmag Anglers and playing thought scour.

I would obviously cut the green from the deck.

Here is the list I'm thinking:
Creatures (16):
4 Death's Shadow
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Street Wraith
4 Gurmag Angler

Spells (27):
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
3 Thought Scour
4 Daze
2 Fatal Push
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dismember
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Reanimate

Lands (17):
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp


Sideboard (15):
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Flusterstorm
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Marsh Casualties
3 Dread of Night
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Bitterblossom

Edit: DRS & Probe banned now. Does this deck even have legs anymore with missing Probe's lifeloss?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amazingxkcd

Edit: DRS & Probe banned now. Does this deck even have legs anymore with missing Probe's lifeloss?

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I was just thinking about this. There are 2 avenues I'm looking to try from my list above.

First suggestion to add to the list:
2 Thoughtseize
1 Thought Scour
1 Dismember
Drop 1 Underground Sea for 1 Watery Grave

Second suggestion to add to the list:
Do what modern did and add 4 Mishra's Bauble
Drop 1 Underground Sea for 1 Watery Grave

I'm sure the deck is still playable but will have to turn into a more control deck now then an aggro deck.

maybe start considering careful studies to fuel fast anglers?